Optimax 135 problem

[Angla]

Please check your alternator bolts.

I pulled up at Amity last night so I could zip over the South Passage Bar at first light, That's when I heard a new noise which sounded like a loose fan belt combined with a pumping sound. I then put another 6 or 7 hours of work on the motor with 2 bar crossings and some high speed travel and long periods of trolling.

When I got home and flushed the motor it still sounded like a pumping squishy sort of a noise so I popped the cowling off and started the motor. You could see the head of the bolt rotating with the motor vibrations and also you could see the pressure was pulling the alternator a little sideways.

The pictures show the rest. Motor has 430 hours

I remember there being a thread about this sort of thing, maybe a year ago, that happened to a 135 Opti (if my memory serves me correct)

I found the other thread http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=143374&highlight=optimax

Please note the belt has been removed from the pulley to take the stress off the remaining bolts/brackets

Cheers
Chris

[megafish71]

This is the third time I have heard of this problem. If I had an opti I would be replacing this bolt every hundred hrs, a bolt doesn't cost much and wouldn't deter me from owning an opti.


Ron

[bigjimg]

Yes i remember reading that thread too Chris.Gee when you think what could have happened right when you don't want problems.I'll be keeping a close eye on mine.There must be some terrific forces at play on that bracket when under way for that bolt to shear.Are there markings on the bolt head to determine the class? Jim

[siegfried]

My 135 popti did the same..a new bolt every couple of hundred hours is the go, strange how its only the 135 that seems to do it

[lampuki]

NOPE, not just the 135s......my 150 did the same thing at 30 hours....

[outsider580]

I thought this problem was only on the earlier model optimax. Angla what year is yours mine is 2005 135 . Would this be checked at a service as standard or would you have to ask them to check it. Just had my motor serviced, new plugs and waterpump $600 at wondall rd they have good customer service and good price to I think .

[Angla]

Yes i remember reading that thread too Chris.Gee when you think what could have happened right when you don't want problems.I'll be keeping a close eye on mine.There must be some terrific forces at play on that bracket when under way for that bolt to shear.Are there markings on the bolt head to determine the class? Jim

There is a F overlapping another F. Don't know if that means anything but.

Cheers
Chris

[bigjimg]

No markings generally means low classification.Do you have a pitch measuring tool by any chance?I think FF is For F#ck sake.See if you can get a 8.8 or 10.9 class flange bolt.BoltMasters at Colmslie should be able to help you out. Jim

[Angla]

No markings generally means low classification.Do you have a pitch measuring tool by any chance?I think FF is For F#ck sake.See if you can get a 8.8 or 10.9 class flange bolt.BoltMasters at Colmslie should be able to help you out. Jim

I ordered the new one today and they rang Mercury. There answer was that they have heard of 6 of them out of the fleet that are out there. Me thinks they may have their ears turned off. Apparently the newer models have a different arrangement with 4 anchor points rather than the three I have.
Anyways, I shall check out the new bolt for any differences and probably do a self inspection on this one regularly as well as a 100 hour replacement in the future.

I wasnt after a warranty of any sort from anyone but would like people to be aware of this possible issue.

Cheers
Chris

[cormorant]

To do that to a bolt ( if the bolt was OK to start with) it would need to be over tensioned. I would be checking that the blind threaded hole it goes into is infact deap enough and that the bolt isn't botteming out. See if the new boldt is 10mm shorter?

A close look by a metalurgist under magnification would quickly resolve what happened to that bolt - twisted off , overtension, fracture, poor metal, fatigue or impact

I'd be buying 2 ( or testing one from the same batch being the other 2 holding it on) and putting one in a vice with a couple of lock nuts on it and turning it with a tension wrench to see what it does.

It pisses me off so much when manufacturer deny the real rate it is happening.

The stress on the other 2 because of the failure meand replace and tension all 3.

[Noelm]

might be being a bit cautious here, but be careful with replacing the bolt with a "better" one, the casting may give way next time instead of the bolt, I would reckon Mercury will investigate thoroughly and bring out a "fix, it may well be just a dud bolt, or over tightened, or even need to dab of locktight, but sometimes it just is not the case.

[Angla]

I would say that the bolt has been flexing at the top of the flange where it screws into. It was not bottomed out as there were about 3 threads left on the main shank of the bolt that were not engaged into the flange. The flange is about 25 mm deep and has a open bottom where the end of the thread was protruding. This allowed for a set of long nose pliers to remove the threaded section.

The belt tensioner seems to be spring loaded and I am not sure if there is a adjustment on the strength of the tension. I will look at that on replacing the bolt.

I have asked the marine place where I get the replacement to give me the torque settings for this bolt too.

Cheers
Chris

[GBC]

Have a chat to the boys at Wandall Rd Marine.

It would appear that the new genuine part bolt is now different to the old genuine part bolt - might save a bit of running around for you.

[finding_time]

GBC

Would that be the new genuine part bolt that broke on our mates on the weekend or was that the old genuine part bolt that broke for the second time


Ian


Ps, I would never never own a 135 opti !!!!! How many trips get ruined or end i tows because Mercury can't make an alternator bolt that doesn't snap!!! Talk about a shit motor!

[bigjimg]

GBC

Would that be the new genuine part bolt that broke on yours on the weekend or was that the old genuine part bolt that broke for the second time


Ian


Ps, I would never never own a 135 opti !!!!! How many trips get ruined or end i tows because Mercury can't make an alternator bolt that doesn't snap!!! Talk about a shit motor!
Don't know about the shit motor part,but Mercury more than likely don't make the bolt and therefore should not have blame heaped on them for it.But clearly you are entitled to your opnion.Bite and hookup.Jim8-)

[Angla]

GBC

Would that be the new genuine part bolt that broke on yours on the weekend or was that the old genuine part bolt that broke for the second time


Ian


Ps, I would never never own a 135 opti !!!!! How many trips get ruined or end i tows because Mercury can't make an alternator bolt that doesn't snap!!! Talk about a shit motor!

I must say that from the 100 or so trips I have done with this motor, not once has it let me down , needed a tow or even made me change my fishing plans. This just seems to be a niggle to the whole good engine thing and it's only going to cost me a bolt.
Mine is a 2003 model and I believe the current models do not have this problem as they have been modified in this area.

Cheers
Chris

[finding_time]

Jim

Mercury know there is an issue with this bolt breaking( there have been so many ) As the maker of this engine it is THERE responsability to Make/ Sorce a bolt that wont snap every few hundred hrs. My mate has one of these engines, the first bolt snapped at sea, result tow-in , and expensive repair as the alternator crushed a pile of stuff when the bolt snapped! Then last weekend they got up brite and early looking forward to tagging a billy or 2. Drove from brisbane to Mooloolaba put the boat in started the motor and the bolt snapped again( this was the newer better bolt) so they drove back to brisbane really pissed off! Now it's got a new bolt in again, do you think the owner have alot of faith in this one???????????? Would you be happy to take this engine offshore????



Mercury is the maker of the engine when things break of coarse it's there fault, they chose the componentry for the engines , and when they discovered the issues with a part they should move heaven and earth to fix the problem not just replace the old faulty part with a new faulty part!! How you can come the the conclussion that it's not there fault is some what amazing!

ian

[Noelm]

I guess a fault can occur in all brands, there has been stories of e-tec certain HP cowls cracking, Suzuki oil filters splitting open (in the bigger HP) Yamaha gearbox issues, corrosion in oil filter mounts on Suzis and Johnsons, probably more important than anything that breaks is how fast the manufacturer rectifies the problem and how the issue is dealt with by the dealers, nobody likes to have a break down of any sort, let alone one that buggers a days boating completly, and lastly, if the issue is a known problem, how long it is covered in a low use motor.

[finding_time]

I must say that from the 100 or so trips I have done with this motor, not once has it let me down , needed a tow or even made me change my fishing plans. This just seems to be a niggle to the whole good engine thing and it's only going to cost me a bolt.
Mine is a 2003 model and I believe the current models do not have this problem as they have been modified in this area.

Cheers
Chris



Hey Chris

Read my post to Jim;) Yes it's just a bolt, but the engine cannot run without it. This time you were not at the hards when it happened or hadn't just towed your boat to Waddy point with all the effort that involves only to have the bolt break when it you start it there. Your engine ran when the breakage occured, the first time it happen to my mates the breakage caused the alternator to smash around under the cowl and it crushed fuel lines and other things under the cowl, now they were unlucky or you were very lucky but either way it's a big fault that can cause big problems.


I think the guy that ownes the motor is looking at getting a replacement high tensile bolt to replace the stainless steel one, yes it will have rust issues and he'll have to stay on top of that, but it wont crack due to the harmonic of the engine like a stainless one will and does! I'll let you know what happens!

ian


Ps they were told it's was only an issue with the early motors and the the new bolt would fix the problem, well a hundred odd hrs later the new and improved bolt is broken!!! And they have only heard of 6 breaking:o :o :o :o :o Bullshit!! How much did his nose grow when he said that???

[Haji-Baba]

The manufacturer is ultimately responsible. Full stop.

The supplier of the bolt is probably a mass producer and supplies to anyone, Outboard marine industry, car trade, etc.

How many wheels have fallen off cars, caravans, and trailers recently. Lots

What happened? bolt/s sheared.

Quality Wheel Bearings??? how would anyone know?

I think i would be testing the quality of the bolt/s new or old and making the findings good or bad, public.

Buy three bolts, state to the supplier you will have one tested and they will get the results first. That might get a reaction.

Quality Stainless Steel??? I have S.S. fittings on my roof rack, all rusty.

I was on a brand new 38 foot boat recently, 3 months old S.S. fittings rusty.


This is not just a lost fishing day issue, but a major safety thing.

On this forum I think there is a photo of a top brand 4x4 with a lost rear off side wheel on the sand track between Kin Kin and Rainbow Beach.

At 100 km. on the highway where would that family be now?.

I hate to be a pessimist but look at the design of the fitting of that Starter motor

Does It look ok?

Was the belt too tight, too much strain,

Our best safety check is our own eyes and ears.

As the man said, he heard a strange sound, immediately look.

It happens to all mechanical things, they wear and have design faults,
some are manufactured from sub standard materials and fail accordingly.

It is over to us, look and listen.

Have Fun Haji-Baba

[Haji-Baba]

Correction, Alternator.



H.B.

[Noelm]

pretty strange to have a stainless bolt in that situation (if it is stainless) as it has quite low shearing strength, very strong for bending and pulling, but not shearing.

[Haji-Baba]

I don't think he said the original that broke was S.S. , he was thinking of changing to a S.S. bolt.

In any case not only is Stainless weaker in many ways it does work harden.

Some types of S.S. will part without any sign of wear or corrosion.

Have fun Haji-Baba.

[finding_time]

The original bolt was stainless steel, the second bolt was stainless steel and now the new improved bolt from mercury is stainless steel!! My mate is looking at getting a high tensile steel one that is exactally the same, yes it will rust if he doesn't look after it but it will not shear due to harmonic!!

[cormorant]

Harmonic - Is Dr Who in there with his sonic screwdriver?? I'll have my motor tuned to a c flat please. I know what you mean but seriously with teh cowl off you would hear a really bad harmonic from a belt or engine. God help all teh other bolts and metal.

I would be going with manufacturers advice as at least bolts are cheaper than brackets and Alternators. This is a warranty issue even if it happens outside warranty as far as I am concerned.

I would be checking teh mating surfaces of the pieces being joined and creating / making a slight bevel in case it is the harder bracket metal creating the shear point - doesn't look like it.

If this is a known Mercury issue I hope the dealers are changing out all old bolts at every XX hour sercice as a under cowl fire and stranding can mean manslaughter with a known fault.

[siegfried]

I put a high tensile fulla in mine ....then sold the bastard:P

[bigjimg]

Why do you think I mentioned 8.8 or 10.9 class bolt.Stainles is neither of these.I had a 55hp Suzuki i think a 94 model had fuel starvation problems that drove me crazy.Eventually found the problem and fixed it,gee must be a shit motor,no it was just one component that was faulty and then fixed.Now because of this stainless bolt and obviously I am no engineer it must be a shit motor.If that bracket was in any way not up to the task it would destroy itself too,has it on anybodies motor,No one has said so.Angler was merely mentioning the fact that his broke it is not about what is shit or isn't.Jim

[finding_time]

Harmonic - Is Dr Who in there with his sonic screwdriver?? I'll have my motor tuned to a c flat please. I know what you mean but seriously with teh cowl off you would hear a really bad harmonic from a belt or engine. God help all teh other bolts and metal.

I would be going with manufacturers advice as at least bolts are cheaper than brackets and Alternators. This is a warranty issue even if it happens outside warranty as far as I am concerned.

I would be checking teh mating surfaces of the pieces being joined and creating / making a slight bevel in case it is the harder bracket metal creating the shear point - doesn't look like it.

If this is a known Mercury issue I hope the dealers are changing out all old bolts at every XX hour sercice as a under cowl fire and stranding can mean manslaughter with a known fault.

Cormorant

Mate the bolts are only about $9 but when these thing let go they can chew out the alternator belt $ 100+ the alternator can jump and crush fuel hoses and other stuff under the cowl, that's the expensive bit. As far as i know the service guys aren't changeing the bolts every service but they will be on this motor, and they aren't repairing the damaged caused or the cost of the bolt under waranty!! So if you want my opinion on Mercury motors see my first post!

ian

Ps. Maybe harmonic isn't the right term but the vibrations of this engine/ alernator belt are at the right frequency to crack this bolt!

PS If i owned a 135 opti i would be asking the dealer/ servicer to change this bolt at every service;) What do you reckon bigJim?

[finding_time]

Why do you think I mentioned 8.8 or 10.9 class bolt.Stainles is neither of these.I had a 55hp Suzuki i think a 94 model had fuel starvation problems that drove me crazy.Eventually found the problem and fixed it,gee must be a shit motor,no it was just one component that was faulty and then fixed.Now because of this stainless bolt and obviously I am no engineer it must be a shit motor.If that bracket was in any way not up to the task it would destroy itself too,has it on anybodies motor,No one has said so.Angler was merely mentioning the fact that his broke it is not about what is shit or isn't.Jim

Jim

I know you love your motor and i'll grant the whole thing isn't a wreck but this one little issue could leave you stranded Offshore, in the middle of a breaking bar or even just at the ramp at the start of a long awaited fishing trip. This has been an issue with this motor for years there is 5 years between my mates motor and Angla's motor the same problem is still there!!!:o :o What the !!!! Do you know if mercury has issued a recall for this potentially dangerous problem????? Has mercury solved this known potentially dangerous problem???? My mate has no cofidence with this motor as it stands, it will be in the back of his mind every time he heads miles offshore! Will it be on your mind Jim That a $9 bolt could cost you hundreds in repairs, that i could leave you stranded at the barwons or in the middle of the sth passage bar? Sound extreme but remember that fella Murphy!


Ian

[bigjimg]

Ian mine is a 06 model i will take some pictures of it to compare the differences.And yes I think about potential problems every time i head offshore but you can't prepare for everything you can only carry some spares of various bits and pieces the rest is up to the gods and good preparation.If I were Chris I would be going the high tensile min 8.8.Jim

[Angla]

Picked up the part as recommended from mercury. The new bolt has 10.9 stamped on the top. I suppose that means they are trying a tensile bolt instead of the old garden variety it previously had.
Tightened it up to 40 Ft/Lb and all sounds sweet now.

Cheers
Chris

[siegfried]

THe best fix is to,1. undo the four bolts at the transom,2. remove the big black thing 3. chuck it to the $hithouse 4. replace with 4 stroke of choice.....= happy days;D

[bigjimg]

Picked up the part as recommended from mercury. The new bolt has 10.9 stamped on the top. I suppose that means they are trying a tensile bolt instead of the old garden variety it previously had.
Tightened it up to 40 Ft/Lb and all sounds sweet now.

Cheers
ChrisWho did you go through Chris and what did they charge you for that bolt:o Do I need to be sitting?Did you replace all the bolts or just the one?Jim
Thought i would add this link www.boltmasters.com.au

[don-one]

guys i just had the same thing happen on an 08 175 opti. the bolt was sheered in half and 5 ml chunk from alternator mount (were the bolt screws into) had cracked off (not sure what happened first). The engine didn't stop but a clicking noise could be heard (the alternator was tapping the side of the engine). I wasn't able to do anything at sea and had to drive it back as it was. I wasn't aware but the main cable from the alternator was suffering under the movement and nearly wore threw the insulation. Had it of done this it would of shorted the main fuse that is not changeable and i would have been looking for a tow! it is still an issue by the sound of it. the bolt is also stamped with ff on the top and engine has 200hrs.

[Steeler]

Hi All


As much as i love my Mercury's all of you need to be documenting these issues and forwarding details to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission for there consideration of of a re-call.

Steve

[finding_time]

I full agree, the motors are " not fit for purpose" Can you believe they have been breaking this bolt for 8 years and Mercury haven't managed to solved the problem??? What The!!!!!!!!!!:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

[John_R]

I have a 2003 Opti 150 that came with my Noble Super V which I bought late last year. The motor has 470 hours on it and as far as I can tell it is the original bolt.

Asked a Mercury dealer to check it and they said it was fine - they didn't even suggest putting in a new one.

I think the reason it fails is there is no support at the top (bad design) so any lateral forces are focussed on the few threads that don't make it into the casting. The thread there acts like a notch in a rod - the stress is magnified. This works the metal and it cracks then breaks.

I don't see much behind the alternator other than the alternator cable, and Angla ran his for 6 hours with a broken bolt, so it sounds like a non-fatal problem.

Am going to replace the bolt anyway.

[OWorld]

Ok guys,

Here are my comments on this .....

Firstly, I will investigate this further with a knowledgeble mechanic/friend in the States and I will provide some further feedback later on.

My gut feeling is that there is nothing wrong with the bolt nor with the design of the alternator. If there was, every 2.5L V6 DFI (135-150-175) would shear this bolt. As this is not the case, I would rule this out. To confirm my feelings one has to look at the older Optis say from 98 to 2001. There are lots of these around with hundreds or thousands of hours and most of them have still the original bolt. Also Mercury has not issued any Service Bulletins on this topic, and I am sure that if it was as simple as a "weak" bolt, they would have, and this would have been rectified.

Because of this, I feel that we need to be looking elsewhere for the cause of this problem. I have just replied to Whitehunter on a similiar issue, apparently fixed by a mod (possibly a different grade bolt) followed by a Compressor failure and snapped/sheared compressor bolt. We need to remember that there is heaps of tension running on the serpentine belt that drives the Alternator and compressor via the flywheel. If any components here has some sort of troubles, this will ultimately end up causing a major fault similar to what you have here described, a snapped bolt.

My initial attention would go to the tensioner. This has a spring inside and of course a bearing. I would recommend first checking these two parts and ideally replacing the whole Pulley Assembly (only worth a few bucks) which includes a new bearing. As well as checking and possibly replacing the spring. If the spring is too lose this could be causing unnecessary vibrations that could lead to an alternator bolt failure. My second thought would go to the compressor and or alternator. If these are not running correctly, they will end up creating an excessive resistance that will/could lead to this issue. Again, check regularly both components with the belt off and try to assess if they seem to be turning freely and/or as freely as they should. Having 2 engines here will help a lot!;D

I would suggest that serpentine belt condition might indicate the fact that an engine is starting to develop some problems by showing excessive/unusual wear.

Also in the case of the Compressor, one very important piece of maintenance here is to replace once a year the Air Filter. This very inexpensive item will make sure that the compressor is getting the right flow of clean air that would prevent it from overheating. Also very important is the Grommet/Seal on the Cover that snaps into the Compressor. If this is out of shape or the cover is not properly seated here it can cause debris to enter the Compressor and damage it!

As I said earlier, these are just my initial thoughts and I will get back to you with more comments next week.

As always my $0.02,
Opti

[Angla]

Price was around the $10.00



I only replaced the one bolt

Cheers
Chris


Who did you go through Chris and what did they charge you for that bolt:o Do I need to be sitting?Did you replace all the bolts or just the one?Jim
Thought i would add this link www.boltmasters.com.au (http://www.boltmasters.com.au)

[Angla]

Ok guys,

Here are my comments on this .....

Firstly, I will investigate this further with a knowledgeble mechanic/friend in the States and I will provide some further feedback later on.

My gut feeling is that there is nothing wrong with the bolt nor with the design of the alternator. If there was, every 2.5L V6 DFI (135-150-175) would shear this bolt. As this is not the case, I would rule this out. To confirm my feelings one has to look at the older Optis say from 98 to 2001. There are lots of these around with hundreds or thousands of hours and most of them have still the original bolt. Also Mercury has not issued any Service Bulletins on this topic, and I am sure that if it was as simple as a "weak" bolt, they would have, and this would have been rectified.

Because of this, I feel that we need to be looking elsewhere for the cause of this problem. I have just replied to Whitehunter on a similiar issue, apparently fixed by a mod (possibly a different grade bolt) followed by a Compressor failure and snapped/sheared compressor bolt. We need to remember that there is heaps of tension running on the serpentine belt that drives the Alternator and compressor via the flywheel. If any components here has some sort of troubles, this will ultimately end up causing a major fault similar to what you have here described, a snapped bolt.

My initial attention would go to the tensioner. This has a spring inside and of course a bearing. I would recommend first checking these two parts and ideally replacing the whole Pulley Assembly (only worth a few bucks) which includes a new bearing. As well as checking and possibly replacing the spring. If the spring is too lose this could be causing unnecessary vibrations that could lead to an alternator bolt failure. My second thought would go to the compressor and or alternator. If these are not running correctly, they will end up creating an excessive resistance that will/could lead to this issue. Again, check regularly both components with the belt off and try to assess if they seem to be turning freely and/or as freely as they should. Having 2 engines here will help a lot!;D

I would suggest that serpentine belt condition might indicate the fact that an engine is starting to develop some problems by showing excessive/unusual wear.

Also in the case of the Compressor, one very important piece of maintenance here is to replace once a year the Air Filter. This very inexpensive item will make sure that the compressor is getting the right flow of clean air that would prevent it from overheating. Also very important is the Grommet/Seal on the Cover that snaps into the Compressor. If this is out of shape or the cover is not properly seated here it can cause debris to enter the Compressor and damage it!

As I said earlier, these are just my initial thoughts and I will get back to you with more comments next week.

As always my $0.02,
Opti

Thankyou for your comments to what we owners consider to be a possible major problem lurking under our cowlings.

A question for you. I go to a reputable mechanic who talks up the Opti's and says that he would prefer to just work on Opti's due to their simplicity and reliability. Would you consider to be pointing blame his way, because he has not done things like replace the serpentine belt and it's tensioning components before a Mercury recommended period?

My next service, which is due now, I will be instructing him to replace the serpentine belt and the tensioner components as a matter of course. I do feel however that I should not have to do this as I would prefer Mercury to put something out in writing to all its dealers/mechanics/service agents that advises of these extra items to add to the servicing schedule of all these affected motors

400 hours seems to be a common theme here

I am happy to have this knowledge so that my motor keeps running at its peak optimum performance while going out on the deep blue. I would also like those unsuspecting others out there to have the same experience as me. Untroubled motoring on the water. After all that is why I started the thread about the broken bolt in the first place.

Thanks again Optimaxworld for your detailed comments on this issue as it helps to shine light on the possible root cause

Cheers
Chris

[ozscott]

Get to the bottom of this fellas (as you are attempting to do) cause the more I think and hear about these motors the more I am convinced that if you dont mind the extra noise (which noise is less than the old 2 strokes in any event and a nice/butch noise if your going to have it...) the merc opti is a gun of a motor.

Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Defiantely has to be an issue with the matting surfaces of the clamping parts.

Outboard manufacturers don't get exited over a few failures :o generally a few hundred may cause an eyebrow to be raised.

Also Stainless bolts are available in High tensile, heavy industry would not survive on non corrosion resistant bolts (where required), however they are at a premium price :)

[black runner]

The design of the entire bracket looks p%ss poor from the photos. There doesn't appear to be any connection at the top part of the mount (under flange of broken bolt) to the motor, instead relying on the clamping effect of the single bolt (with the bending moment where the bolt broke) to support the combined mass and vibration of the alternator and bracket assy. I sometimes wonder how much thought is given when rotating some of these assemblies to verticle from their horizontally orientated automotive cousins.

Cheers

[OWorld]

Hi,

And thank you all for the positive comments and feedback. As promised, I managed to have a chat with my friend in the States (Steve) and I have some interesting news:

1) I was wrong, he reckons that there was an original service bulletin 1998-08 which highlights several issue and faults in the Alternator/Bolt/Tensioner setup in the 2.5 V6 DFIs. This bulletin was advising a specific set of new parts and instructions on how to rectify the issue. As the first Optis showed up in late 97 early 98 this would have been rectified on all Optis from say 99 onwards. I have also worked on several 98 Optis that have not presented this issue, but again, until I get hold of this Service Bulletin and check the exact serial numbers that it applies to, I will not be able to add much more. Regardless, this would definitely not affect any Optimax built from say 2000 onward. And most of the ones we have been discussing here fall into this pattern. Unfortunately the web site, where I was getting the bulletin from, does not allow downloading any more, as apparently Mercury has complained with them! This is something I certainly do not like from Mercury as I feel that ultimately will damage them more than it will help them! As soon as I get hold of the bulletin I will be posting a link here!

2) After extensive discussion with Steve on the subject he has confirmed my feelings that this is certainly not a typical issue with the 2.5 DFI hence we agree that there isn't a major issue here.

We progressed with guessing what could have caused this issue with some of you guys. And here are our extra conclusion on top of what I had already prospected earlier:

1) Definitely, as Angla has already correctly stated, we would recommend a Serpentine Belt replacement every 150hours if you are "particular" about the maintenance of your beloved Opti. This could be extended to 200 hours but I would not go passed that. Apparently, from what Steve says, Mercury recommends every 100 hours, but I have not confirmed this and honestly I feel very comfortable with 150 which has worked beautifully for me until now.

2) Rather than replacing the bolts, it is important that if the bolts have ever been loosened, they are re-torqued correctly and the correct loctite is applied. We seem to agree that these bolts that have sheared must have come lose first, due to unusual vibrations most likely caused by the Serpentine Belt that is gradually stretching with age and the tensioner vibrating more than it should because of this. Once lose they become more easily subject to breaking.

I think that if you follow the advises provided by me in this thread, you can be quite relaxed that your 2.5L Opti will not be letting you down with this Bolt issue!

And as Steve always says .... "Like all equipment, there is no substitute for regular preventative maintenance and inspection"

Happy and safe boating everyone,
Opti

[bigjimg]

Thanks Opti I will be letting my service tech know about this on the next service in a couple of months,at 135hrs at the moment.Oh you'll love that Opti hum Ozscott.Jim

[ozscott]

thanks Opti. Thanks Bigjimg...I reckon I could get used to it.

Cheers

PS. I love the way everyone has utterly ignored the Siegfried post - priceless

[OWorld]

Something else I thought of. As part of routine inspection, it is a good idea to lift off the flywheel cover assembly to inspect for signs of the belt rubbing on the underside of the cover. I have seen a few where the belt dug right into the plastic and this is a good indication of a problem with the belt alignment which could be do to a bad pulley, or loose alternator or compressor mount.

Opti

[OWorld]

Ok guys, her is the old bulletin as promised


http://www.optimaxworld.net/EN_08.pdf


Opti

[sea-rash]

[quote=OptimaxWorld;1130409]Hi,

And thank you all for the positive comments and feedback. As promised, I managed to have a chat with my friend in the States (Steve) and I have some interesting news:

1) I was wrong, he reckons that there was an original service bulletin 1998-08 which highlights several issue and faults in the Alternator/Bolt/Tensioner setup in the 2.5 V6 DFIs. This bulletin was advising a specific set of new parts and instructions on how to rectify the issue. As the first Optis showed up in late 97 early 98 this would have been rectified on all Optis from say 99 onwards. I have also worked on several 98 Optis that have not presented this issue, but again, until I get hold of this Service Bulletin and check the exact serial numbers that it applies to, I will not be able to add much more. Regardless, this would definitely not affect any Optimax built from say 2000 onward. And most of the ones we have been discussing here fall into this pattern. Unfortunately the web site, where I was getting the bulletin from, does not allow downloading any more, as apparently Mercury has complained with them! This is something I certainly do not like from Mercury as I feel that ultimately will damage them more than it will help them! As soon as I get hold of the bulletin I will be posting a link here!

2) After extensive discussion with Steve on the subject he has confirmed my feelings that this is certainly not a typical issue with the 2.5 DFI hence we agree that there isn't a major issue here.

We progressed with guessing what could have caused this issue with some of you guys. And here are our extra conclusion on top of what I had already prospected earlier:

1) Definitely, as Angla has already correctly stated, we would recommend a Serpentine Belt replacement every 150hours if you are "particular" about the maintenance of your beloved Opti. This could be extended to 200 hours but I would not go passed that. Apparently, from what Steve says, Mercury recommends every 100 hours, but I have not confirmed this and honestly I feel very comfortable with 150 which has worked beautifully for me until now.

2) Rather than replacing the bolts, it is important that if the bolts have ever been loosened, they are re-torqued correctly and the correct loctite is applied. We seem to agree that these bolts that have sheared must have come lose first, due to unusual vibrations most likely caused by the Serpentine Belt that is gradually stretching with age and the tensioner vibrating more than it should because of this. Once lose they become more easily subject to breaking.

I think that if you follow the advises provided by me in this thread, you can be quite relaxed that your 2.5L Opti will not be letting you down with this Bolt issue!

And as Steve always says .... "Like all equipment, there is no substitute for regular preventative maintenance and inspection"

Happy and safe boating everyone,
Opti[/quote

Not sure I agree with all of that. The Opti 135 (post 99) I use to own had the belt replaced at well less than 100 hour intervals. Once when it was due, Once when the alternater bolt sheared, Once when the compressor bolt sheared and this has happened to the new owner since. ( I was with him !) All work done by guys at Wondall road marine who I have no beef with.

I assume they would have installed and tourqed these correctly. To state that this is not an issue with these motors is not accurate. Have a look at the amount of guys here who have had the same problem. The interval between compressor bolt failure (new belt) and second alternater bolt failure was less than 30 hours. The motor has been always serviced and has had three extra belts as well. I think this qualafiys as regular servicing.

I don't know you or "Steve" from the states or your background. I have no expertise with these motors as you seem to , I just do not accept these problems are due to a lack of preventative maintanence. I agree the motor was ahead of its time in some ways, but think there is a problem with that area that mercury should fix.

Incidentally I did not ignore Siegfrieds comments. I just chose too not make comment on them (until now) That is not the same thing.


Regards


Rob

[Steeler]

Opti

Are you sure you don't work for Merc and are there mole here;) to de-bunk and discourage owners from pooling there re-sources and take the matter further.

I am also a die hard Merc man,you could not give me any other brand ( except Mariner,i am an idiot )but gee whiz i think its pretty clear here the design of this system and the quality of the fasteners is questionable.

I read an interesting article the other day about Ford Australia being rather mystified about ball joint issues on Territory's and they came up with that good old chestnut " we are only aware of a handful ". You gotta dead set love that, cracks me up every time.

Merc only aware of a handful,sure pull the other it plays jingles too.

Steve

[OWorld]

Hi again guys,

First of all Steeler, I certainly do not work for Mercury and in fact I do not work in the boating industry at all, I am Software Developer for a living. But I have developed a great interest/passion for the Mercury Optimax since their introduction. I am also a mad boating person and I have been since the late 80s early 90s. My typical boating trip is a 150 NM day trip from Adelaide to Kangaroo Island and as you can imagine, when you need to cover those distances on the water every second week you need to have your engine working perfectly!!!

I have been rebuilding 2 stroke bikes engines since I was 12yo. I love the simplicity of a 2 stroke and I have looked after my initial carburetor 2 Stroke V6s since I began boating. I have never had a dealer work on any of my Outboards. The Optimaxes are an amazing piece of technological leap as far as 2 strokes go. I have worked extensively on mine and helped lots of friends.

Steve is a very dear friend and great pro mechanic who fixes and maintains Optimaxes for a living in the States. He is constatly investing time and money doing all the Mercury Uneversity classes. I have known him since I started working on Optis and we exchange experiences and ideas and have worked together on mods forced by the unavailability of parts through to improvements and little trick developed over years of work. You can read lots of his post on continuouswave.com his nick there is sosmerc

I have given you my opinions and I have doubled checked them with Steve. There are hundreds of thousands of Optimaxes out there and as I said earlier, in my opinion, if this was a major fault, there would be a lot more threads on this on US forums like continuouswave.com or thehulltruth! Try looking up Optimax overheating, that will give you thousands of posts on the subject when it comes to the 2.5L V6 DFI. I will be the first one to tell you that the water pump in this engines is undersized and this is certainly an area that in my opinion could have been improved before the alternator bolt. But I would not recommend you to mod its design, I would instead recommend you to change your impeller once every 12 months maximum and to use the heavy duty -T4 version as well as alsways replace the two gasket on either side of the wear plate. I never said that the design is perfect, nothing man made is, I simply said that this cannot be a major design fault hence in order to prevent it, people should concentrate on isolating the triggering causes rather than trying to improve the design! As a last comment I will stress that we have never heard confirmation from all the people who have had the issue here on how many of them were having the belts replaced every 200 hours max. I am not asking people to follow religiously my believes, I am just providing my views and experience, it is up to everyone else reading to make up their own mind and choose what to do.

One last thing I will add, I will certainly not be modifying the bolt or the alternator design on my 2001 Optis as I personally do not feel that there is an issue there!

I hope this clarifies my views and I hope we can keep this thread focused on the issue.

As always my $0.02,
Opti

[Razgo-]

Hi Opti, good to hear you are passionate. Does this mean my recent purchase 2005 115HP Optimax was a good buy? at least i think so far as it doesn't seem to use any fuel! its pushing my new pontoon boat 7.5m approx 2 tonne.

its good to know people like you so we can ask questions about these motors as quite often it's the person like you that have more insight than the mechanic or dealer.

russ

[OWorld]

Thanks Russ,

Yes, your 115 is a great engine. It is pretty much built around the 3.0L block and halved from there. It is also a lot quiter than the V6s and to anyone installing a single 225-250 my personal recommendation would be to go for 2 x 115!

If anything, the biggest disappointment I have with Mercury is not to have built some more smaller Optis in the lower HPs range.

Enjoy your Optimax mate,
Opti

[sea-rash]

"As a last comment I will stress that we have never heard confirmation from all the people who have had the issue here on how many of them were having the belts replaced every 200 hours max"

Please read above. Last time i checked 30 hrs was less than 200.


Rob

[OWorld]

Rob,

If you read my reply it says "from all". I never said from any! You are one.

Also here is an interesting extract from another forum classicseacraft.com in the States on the same topic .....

Just a long shot, but I had a similar problem on my tractor. The alternator bearings were shot which put such a strain on it that 2 of the mounting bolts broke.
-Muddy
as I said earlier, these issues are not unheard of but just not common enough when compared to the amount of 2.5 V6 DFI out there! I also stressed in one of my early replies that one of the items to check is the Alternator and/or the Compressor spinning.

I will repeat once more, in my opinion, the issue is due to unusually stronger vibrations. There must be one or more causes for this vibration and everyone needs to look at each specific case to find them. Blaming just the bolt or the design will not help the people that have the issue nor will help everyone else from preventing it.

As always my $0.02,
Opti

[bigjimg]

I'll have my belt replaced at my next service and the bolts replaced with known high tensile bolts.I will talk with a marine engineer friend of mine as to which stainless ones to get for the purpose, a very knowledgable man he is.Lets see if I have any issues in the future as a test case following these recommendations.Time will tell.Jim

[OWorld]

Jim,

Please remember that the belt was one possible cause for the vibrations. Make sure you also have checked the other items I mentioned.

Have fun on the water,
Opti

[bigjimg]

Yes Opti the air filter,tensioner etc all noted,I will even get the air gun and blow out all that reddish dust that seems to accumulate under the cover as well.I have been cleaning out the salt crystals that build up as well,I know I am anal about my things just ask the missus but these things cost alot of money best we look after them.Jim

[OWorld]

Sounds good Jim, just make sure if you blow air to seal well (a small plastic bag and a rubber band) the Aircompressor Air Intake and the AirPlennum intake.

Opti

[cormorant]

Any dust under a cowl will probably void any warranty on any outboard if you had a early failure.

It normally gets there from storage or transport on dirt roads.

Get a travel cover made up for your motor and use it for travel and storage. Onr that covers teh complete cowl and doesn't have holes for the air inlet. Some cowl covers have a optional velcro bit to cover teh air inlet in bright orange so you don't leave it on after travel.

You wouldnt run your car without a air cleaner or your lawnmower. Will chew out rings real fast.

Salt crystals can be from spray sucked in air or can be from splash coming up under the lower cowls when your wake catches you coming off the throttle. Ease off the throttle and check the seals at the bottom cowls to make sure thaty are seated right.

A tranducer mounted wrong or motor at teh wrong depyj etc can all add to spray around the motor so on teh plane have a look as a lot can be fixed and your motor will last longer .

Fresh crystals can be rinsed off with soaky water. Some motors that run hot produce more so get the dealer to check thermostat and running temps.

Some of teh sprays people use under cowls in my experience seem to produce a lot more salt crystals as the sprays hold some moisture, some can catch fire when hot as well should something go wrong under the cowl to get them hot.. I only use a silicon spray.

[OWorld]

I like your post Cormorant, you have made some excellent points. In particular when you say

"check the seals at the bottom cowls to make sure that are seated right."

You should also check the 2 holes inside the top part of the cowling for missing plugs!

This is a typical issue with the early cowlings. There are 2 small roughly 1 inch in diameter holes in the top part of the cowling (inside part). Normally there should be two rubber plugs in there but often they are missing and when they do the engines will get a fair amount of sea water spray on them through these 2 holes. It is important to check that they are there and if they are not replace them. You can get some pretty good generic plugs from Clark Rubber that will do an excellent job in there.

Opti

[bigjimg]

Gidday Cormorant,Mate the reddish dust i am refering to comes from the serpentine belt contacting on the various pulleys not from any road and or storage contamination.It is a normal build up due to use.If you look at Chris's photo's closely you will see what i mean.Can't and won't stop the salt crystals unless i use in fresh only,I am currently using a spray that completely dries is good stuff,Protecta Spray Lube,give it a go.Jim

[OWorld]

Hi Jim,

The belt dust should be black. What do you mean by reddish? Can you post us a picture? I will see if I can take a picture once I get down to my boat, but it is very black not reddish. Where do you think the red comes from?

Opti

[Steeler]

Is it possible some of these things have a misalignment issue and the colored dust the result of a different brand of belt.

I know i'm a goose but just trying to think outside the square.

Hey Opti,R u sure your not Mr Brunswick,just kidding :D

Steve

[Angla]

Any dust under a cowl will probably void any warranty on any outboard if you had a early failure.

It normally gets there from storage or transport on dirt roads.

Get a travel cover made up for your motor and use it for travel and storage. Onr that covers teh complete cowl and doesn't have holes for the air inlet. Some cowl covers have a optional velcro bit to cover teh air inlet in bright orange so you don't leave it on after travel.

You wouldnt run your car without a air cleaner or your lawnmower. Will chew out rings real fast.

Salt crystals can be from spray sucked in air or can be from splash coming up under the lower cowls when your wake catches you coming off the throttle. Ease off the throttle and check the seals at the bottom cowls to make sure thaty are seated right.

A tranducer mounted wrong or motor at teh wrong depyj etc can all add to spray around the motor so on teh plane have a look as a lot can be fixed and your motor will last longer .

Fresh crystals can be rinsed off with soaky water. Some motors that run hot produce more so get the dealer to check thermostat and running temps.

Some of teh sprays people use under cowls in my experience seem to produce a lot more salt crystals as the sprays hold some moisture, some can catch fire when hot as well should something go wrong under the cowl to get them hot.. I only use a silicon spray.

I have been advised by my mercury mechanic to just flush under the cowl with fresh water. Not high pressure but just running water where any salty looking deposits are. I also tend to not wet any major electrical and air intake areas

Cheers
Chris

[OWorld]

Steve, I start from the assumption that there is only one belt and from only one brand, Mercury. After all I am Mr Brunswick, right! Because of this I am still quite interested in understanding where this reddish dust comes from. Could it be rust?

Also Angla, I too use warm water without high pressure to wash the bottom part of the powerhead where it connects to the mid section. I would not recommend using any water around the top part of the powerhead, near the Flywheel/Belt/Compressor/AirIntake area, I think that blowing with an air compressor after having sealed the air plennum and compressor intakes is a safer choice. If the salt deposit are quite tough to remove, you cold try a small steamer ;)

Opti

[Noelm]

seems to me that the salt deposits inside the cowl should not be there, sure some water/spray/mist gets in from here and there, but if it is enough to need to be washed off I would be looking to rectify that, is it even remotely possible that the salt is causing the tensioner pulley bearing, compressor bearing to fail long before it's time?

[OWorld]

Another very good comment Noelm, see the previous post about items to look for to isolate the salt spray issues.

Opti

[bigjimg]

Okay here we go,took some pictures,the dust is definately a reddish brown and as the photos suggest comes from the belt running over the moving parts,I may be wrong but what else could it be from.Maybe the alternator armateur throwing out particles,any suggestions,I certainly don't travel over dirt roads only to Scarby or Manly ramp and up to Somerset.Dont know if you can see the droplets of water on the right bank on the motor,how could you stop moist air from entering the cowl?I just wash after use,generally during the week after a trip.As you can see the covers go over the motor when at home.Jim

[OWorld]

Hi Opti,

I have a 1999 optimax 135 hp, I bought it and the boat in 2006 and think it is a great motor but just read about people shearing altanator bolts and causing damage.

should I replace my bolts ? is there upgrade bolts available ?

only other concern is when putting it into gear have to do it fast or it makes a grinding noise, any suggestions ?

please advise.

Thanks,
Brian


I got the above personal message but I have decided to reply in here as in this way my reply can be useful to everyone. I will stress that I would rather keep our posts in the public forum as this will avoid me having to repeat the same answers multiple times. Also, forums reply are indexed by search engines and will become available to anyone doing a google search, while PM don't. So please keep the PM for what they have been designed! ;)

Now back to popgun's questions ............ about the alternator bolt, I strongly advise you to read through this thread from the very beginning. There is a lot of info in here on this subject and you should be able to make up your mind on what to do. You can also check the link to the Mercury Service Bulletin I posted and go from there. Personally, unless your serial number would fall into the category requiring the Update I would not replace the bolt but simply check all the other items discussed. It is your decision though in the end.

As far as the grinding noise goes ....... it could be several things but without actually listening and playing with it it is hard to know. Make sure that when you switch into gear you do so quite quickly rather than very slowly, a firm wrist is what is required. This will avoid an issue with the registration of your cables which ultimately could be your problem. The first thing I would check though is the Shift Control switch. Optimaxes have a clever design from this point of view .... there is a switch that senses the neutral and when you take the engines off neutral and into gear this switch deactivates temporarily 3 Cylinders. In doing so there is a softer more gentle transition into gear. If this switch isn't working, it could be that you are not dropping those Cylinders and the transition into gear is a bit harsher. If you could plug a DDT or PC with appropriate software into the engine it would tell you straight away if this switch is working or not! Other than that it could be a Gearbox issue. Checking the switch itself without a DDT will not nail it 100% as it could be that the switch is working but the ECU/PCM isn't registering due to a connector or cable/harness fault. The DDT here is the way to go! If you were in Adelaide I could help you. You need the DDT and the correct cartridge, which in your case would be an Outboard v.5

Catch you later,
Opti

[OWorld]

Hi Jim, you could have spared us the picture with the boat/engine under cover. I guess we get your point, you are looking after your rig!;D

I certainly see what you mean and I would like to recheck mines more carefully on the weekend before I give an answer but as a first impression I do not think all Optimaxes have that reddish dust. I would love to hear about this from other owners. What happens if you rub your finger over the square nipple where your finger is pointing? Does it come back to a perfect black? If so I would recommend that you remove your belt, clean as much red dust as possible, refit the belt and then see if the red comes back immediately after 1 trip. Make sure you also wipe the belt with a rug. You could also do this when you have your belt replaced next time. I see the red dust also on the flywheel teeth. Same applies there, if you try to clean those do they go back to black or is there a bit of rust on those? There must be a simple way to put that dust into a small container with some solution and test if it is rust dust. Anyone has any ideas?

As far as the salt deposits are concerned they certainly do not seem major and if you are particular about it I would recommend a small steamer tool.

Opti

[Razgo-]

oh i have a grinding noise when putting in gear. But only when going into reverse gear not forward gear.

[bigjimg]

Hi Jim, you could have spared us the picture with the boat/engine under cover. I guess we get your point, you are looking after your rig!;D

I certainly see what you mean and I would like to recheck mines more carefully on the weekend before I give an answer but as a first impression I do not think all Optimaxes have that reddish dust. I would love to hear about this from other owners. What happens if you rub your finger over the square nipple where your finger is pointing? Does it come back to a perfect black? If so I would recommend that you remove your belt, clean as much red dust as possible, refit the belt and then see if the red comes back immediately after 1 trip. Make sure you also wipe the belt with a rug. You could also do this when you have your belt replaced next time. I see the red dust also on the flywheel teeth. Same applies there, if you try to clean those do they go back to black or is there a bit of rust on those? There must be a simple way to put that dust into a small container with some solution and test if it is rust dust. Anyone has any ideas?

As far as the salt deposits are concerned they certainly do not seem major and if you are particular about it I would recommend a small steamer tool.

OptiOpti the dust when rubbed off with the finger does go darker
and when on my finger looks blackish.I ran out of memory space on the m/stick.I will be replacing a stud grommet so i will get another look at it tomorrow.While i was at the marine parts joint down the road we got to talking about the bolts and he assured me that the bolts Merc use definately are High Tensile bolts as they have tested them.Out of all the Optis they have done over the years never have they done or seen broken bolts.For the record I am not going to lose sleep worrying about mine.I will have the motor serviced paying attention to the noted points and enjoy my time on the water.Like all and any machinery at some point it will break down.Also got an air filter as the one in the cowl was abit dirty.$26 bucks.Jim

[BigBadJohn]

Hi All,
Chris told me in a post about this and i was sure my bolt had been done as my cousin is a mechanic in a boat shop here that is a Merc dealer, anyhow mine has been changed and they have done some mods to it, anyhow i look at his motor this morning down the shop and took a couple of pics with my phone so not real good. Anyhow i guess this fix on his is more of a safety thing incase it brakes a plate to hold it. Anyhow i guess anything is better than nothing.
http://bbj.smugmug.com/Other/Other-Pics/135-opti-3/881469314_xLbJe-L.jpg
http://bbj.smugmug.com/Other/Other-Pics/135opti-1/881469228_JWnC7-L.jpg
Cheers
John
BBJ

[Angla]

BBJ
I just had another look at my motor and would question as to whether the bolt on the tensioner pulley rotates with the tensioner. This could cause the nut on the top to loosen and be a further problem. I do like the thought train but.
I am going to stick with the regular bolt replacement for the mean time with the tensile bolt

It certainly looks like your bolt has broken at some time and then a repair has been done. Is the top of the bolt marked with any particular stamp like an "F" or "8"

Cheers
Chris

[Angla]

BigBadJohn

You have exceeded your stored messages quota. Please clear some of your old messages so that I may reply to your message

Cheers
Chris

[BigBadJohn]

Chris i will have a look tomorrow at mine as this is Darryl's motor so mine could be the same as it has a plate on it, but it looks like they have ground off a bit between the hinge on mine will try get some better pics of mine as didn't have a camera with me when i was down at the shop. But yes his had broke.