WTF tide guide 2010

[justjack]

can any one explain the logic in the changing of the tide guide format for 2010, p78 has an interesting read, personally i loved the old way it was published, anyone elsed thoughts?

[tigermullet]

Me too. MSQ idiots caused the change. Something about confusion with chart data.

I am still working away with Excel to convert all of the tides to feet. Lot of work but should be worth it because of my constant use of the rule of twelfths.

[Mod11]

from the owner of the tide guide.




For what it is worth, I have received only the one notification from Maritime Safety Queensland. I received it late on Tuesday afternoon. I have attached a copy, as well as a revised PDF copy of the original media release.

You will note that MSQ's letter was written by one person, attributed to a second and actually signed by a third. I'm not quite sure what that was all about. Perhaps none of them wanted to accept full responsibility.

MSQ's letter refers to a Tidal Agreement which it holds with the Australian Bureau of Meteorology, which now encompasses the National Tidal Centre. In my phone calls to MSQ, I was given to understand that that contract was renewed in 2007 by about 24 signatories in the Australian states and territories. MSQ, and only MSQ of all the signatories to the 2007 agreement, has taken until now to decide to apply it, if the relevant clauses of the agreement do indeed need to be applied, which I doubt. The relevant authorities in every other State where we publish the Tide Guide in the Queensland format do not think so. Not having seen the contents of the agreement, I have no idea of whether there is any contractual limitation.

As I said in the media release, I have no doubt this is nothing more than MSQ blocking publication of the Tide Guide to salvage the sales of their own book. I discussed the issues with Mr Dean Wallington of MSQ three weeks ago, Friday, June 26. I told him then that MSQ's book in its existing format aims at the experienced yachties, the commercial boat operator and the professional navigator. It is not user friendly for everyday recreational users.

The Tide Guide has been designed specifically for the everyday recreational user, whether they are boaties, four-wheel-drivers, fishermen tossing in a line off the bank or the beach or the rocks, campers, surfers, even brides who want to know when the tide will be in so the background water shots in their wedding photos will be at the best on the day.

The Tide Guide's formula wasn't a fluke. It wasn't dreamt up in a Sunday afternoon flash in the pan. I put a lot of thought into the way the information is presented, based on more than 35 years of newspaper and publishing experience at the time.

What the government has done with its book is publish a format that they are telling the public it must have. What we have done is publish a format that we have asked the public to try and, if they like it, support us. They have supported us overwhelmingly, so much so that we have taken that format and offered it to the people of NSW, Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the Northern Territory. They too have supported it, although nowhere near as strongly as the people of south-east Queensland. We use a different format in Western Australia for different reasons.

I have told Mr Wallington where their format fails for the recreational user. I have advised him where they can improve it. One can only presume they will be making radical changes to their book for 2010, to lift its popularity. Which means they must have changed the official format or adopted an approved variation to it such as the one which we developed in western Australia this year with the National Tidal Centre's help - not as good as our own format, but much, much easier to read than the existing official choices.

I was given to understand during my talks three weeks ago that procedures would be initiated to resolve the so-called problem of releasing the 2010 predictions for use by us in our format.

A fortnight later on Friday July 10, I again called Mr Wallington and asked him for an update on the situation. He said we could not have the data. I asked for the reasoning in writing. I received that letter last Tuesday afternoon.

I was initially told it was a matter of not conforming to the official format in which the data could be released and that by not conforming it became a safety issue. The letter makes only one mention of safety in the fourth paragraph, but talks mainly of our format not being "consistent with those formats within the Tidal Agreement".

The letter basically says that MSQ can't release the data to us because our format is not officially recognised but if they were to recognise our format, then anyone could use our format and we could no longer retain exclusive copyright in it. Catch-22. Welcome to the Queensland Public Service in a stroppy mood.

After receiving MSQ's letter on Tuesday, I contacted Transport Minister Nolan's senior ministerial policy advisor Daniel Cheverton and told him of our situation, repeating everything I had told Mr Wallington.

He investigated and advised that he thought the letter clearly said "that MSQ is happy to continue to work with you to resolve this matter". I replied that neither I nor others had interpreted the letter that way. He replied with a request that I "clearly articulate" how my intepretation of the letter differed from his.

I picked up the telephone on Thursday morning and spoke to him. I articulated as clearly as I could. I said I believed MSQ was stalling. I explained again all that had happened from when we first requested the data months ago through Sydney-based Manly Hydraulics Laboratory. I pointed out that we operated on what I call the Woolworths principle - large volume with very small margin, thereby keeping the cost to the consumer at the absolute minimum, even causing MSQ to drop their price this year by $4.15 from last year's $8.75 to compete with ours. What that means is that without the south-east Queensland Tide Guide as our mainstay, our entire operation fails. I told Mr Cheverton that while I might be 63 years old and might be forced into early retirement, my assistant and her husband had two daughters to educate and a new home with a new mortgage to pay off. He said he now understood the situation and he would have further talks with MSQ and get back to me later that day.

He didn't. I called him again this morning. I was told by the receptionist that he would call back. He still hasn't.

If any of you are interested in offering us further support, they could try ringing MSQ at the phone number on the letter 3120 7017, or Transport Minister Rachel Nolan's office on 3898 0812, or the office of Andrew Fraser (Employment and Economic Development) on 322 46900 or Premier Anna Bligh's office on 322 44500 or Fisheries Minister Tim Mulherin's office on 323 93000.

Better still, they might like to call all of those numbers and complain on our behalf. They might ask their relatives and friends to call those numbers too. All of them. We don't have the budget or the manpower. There are only two of us providing a very lean service to our readers on very modest salaries. We would appreciate the help.

But they would be best advised to wait until 9am Monday morning before calling. I doubt they will find anyone answering those phone numbers outside normal business office hours.

I believe the Gold Coast Bulletin will be running a feature on Saturday morning as a result of the $500 fine imposed during the week on the recreational angler caught fishing in one of the new green zones, in Pumicestone Passage. I believe it will map out for all their readers where people can safely fish in Gold Coast waters and where they risk being fined. I understand they will be running a story on the government's blocking of the Tide Guide in the same feature pages.

You can confirm that by contacting the Bulletin's feature editor, Ken Vernon, on 5584 2444, mobile 0418 788 002. Ken was waiting on me to advise how Cheverton had responded on Thursday afternoon when Saturday's features were due to be locked up, but of course Cheverton hasn't responded at all.

If nothing else, these bastards should be finding a secure job for my assistant. I've not got a mortgage any more and I have a few savings tucked away. Not much but enough to get me by until pension day in a little more than two years. But she can't. She says she has been having sleepless nights. She's not alone.

Whatever happened to blokes like Tom Burns who stood up for the little people? What has happened to the Queensland Government?

There was a time when we elected politicians to lead us by serving us, to instruct the public service in administrating the wishes of the majority of the people. I am becoming increasingly disillusioned. These days, it would appear the public service has become the government and is telling the politicians what we must do.

Even the letter from MSQ carries the letterhead, Queensland Government. Not Maritime Safety Queensland. Not Queensland Public Service. But Queensland Government.

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I was taught that the government was the political unit and the public service was the administrative unit. We seem to have lost track of the basic essentials somewhere along the line. I think it's time for the government - our elected representatives - to restore our core values. By "our", I mean the people of Queensland.




mmmm ? Dollars ?






chilli

[loophole]

^^ Didn't read all of that :P ^^ But I aswell don't like the change, Was way easier in the old format IMO.

[Hell Boy]

I like the new format, much easier to use and less cluttered, but having said that, i've grown up with metric and find the imperial numbers a waste of paper for me.

But for people that use imperial (feet, inches eta) is nice that they can still find a imperial friendly tide guide, instead to trying to learn metric

but having said that australia did change over the metric in 1969, over 40 years ago.

I hope MQS can come to an agreement to resolve this, as far as i can see it they are trying to kill the Tide Guide to sell there product, and i want to see the Tide Guide survive and use what ever format they choose!!!!

[Lucky_Phill]

That's my take Hellboy, MSQ after the bucks.

We became metric in Feb 1966............. lol. Yes, I was around to welcome it in....



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[nigelr]

Tried this one?
www.wtides.com (http://www.wtides.com)
Fantastic!

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks nigelr. you are correct, awesome site and have downloaded software.

Without using the help files, I have navigated around and after 5 minutes feel confident to be able to use it to its full capacity.

Cheers


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[charleville]

That's my take Hellboy, MSQ after the bucks.

We became metric in Feb 1966.............


No we didn't. That was when decimal currency was introduced.

We went metric in the early seventies. I distinctly remember it because I was in a job that required some training in certain aspects of metrication. eg how to pronounce "kilometres" and how we would use the word Celsius" instead of "centigrade" because "centigrade' was a term used in the timber industry (or so we were told - I have never heard of the term in any other sense than measuring temperature)


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[tigermullet]

Wtides is a great site but does not meet my needs. I liked the old Tide Guide because the tides could be seen at a glance for any day of the year. The little book can be carried anywhere. No need to lug a lap top around

The rule of twelfths is much easier to work in feet and inches along the same lines as working out hull speed for a displacement vessel - hull speed in knots is equal to 1.34 times the square root of the water line length in feet. The 1.34 can be ignored because it is a just a theoretical speed in ideal or perfect conditions with a hull producing very little drag. Therefore, to know your hull speed it's close enough to take the square root - and that can be done in your head i.e., a calculator is not necessary.

Along the same lines, a calculation can be done with tides if expressed in feet - no thought required.

The old format in the Tide Guide was also easier to read. The MSQ mandated layout now makes it look like a Chinese restaurant menu. I think it does anyway. Not that I've been to one of those restaurants in 40 years - they might have changed too.

[finga]

Yep, I'm with Charlie. Metric was introduced in about 1974-5.
I remember my first metric ruler. A steel one that won all the ruler fights :)
And that was when I broke my arm at Alstonville and I was in grade 4.
And the HQ Holden had m/h speedo's early on and the later HQ's had a speedo with both m/h and km/h on and the HJ Holden was pure metric. HJ came in in late 1974.

[charleville]

And the HQ Holden had m/h speedo's early on and the later HQ's had a speedo with both m/h and km/h on

Yeah - and we used to be able to buy adhesive decals that you stuck on the old speedos to show both mph and km/h.

I put one on my 1971 HG Holden. (An awesome car, BTW - much better than the later model Holden that I replaced it with in 1983. I would still be driving it now if I had taken better care of it in relation to body rust. In that regard the cars of this era are much better. But perhaps, I am getting too far off-topic. ;D ).

It was going to be confusing for some people because the road signs were going to show a speed limit of 60 KPH whereas the old MPH limit was 35 and the 100 KPH was replacing the 60 MPH limit.

BTW, I am unsure as to why people still buy the tide book. There are oodles of free tide tables available at pretty well every bait and tackle outlet and for those of us who use the internet, the online tide website is excellent. In the Tide Book that I remember, they did have the fishing rules but those are now so complicated, they needed to put out special publications. One pretty well needs to be a lawyer to go fishing these days. They rules have become so complicated. :-/


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[fishel]

I don't like the new format, either, not because it is only in metres, but that the layout is just harder to decipher. At a glance I could read the old one easily, aided by each tide being in a different box, probably, and the numbers aren't so close together. If the high tide was in bold like in the old tide guide it would help make it a little easier to read, and the shading for weekends/public holidays was good. I also don't like 24 hour time. Never having been in the army I have to keep detracting 12 hours from the time to know where it is at.

Sorry to hear the opposition is giving you a hard time. Trying to squeeze you out of business, I suppose, after which their price will go up again, or maybe even higher than before.

I have appreciated the low price of the tide guide because I don't get too many opportunities to go saltwater fishing as I don't live close to the water and therefore don't want to pay too much for a tide guide. If the tide guide doesn't continue because they squeeze you out, and I hope for your sakes that doesn't happen, I will grab a freeby, partly out of principle and partly as stated above.

Thanks for clarifying why the change.

Eleanor

[tigermullet]

Yeah those times are another thing. I get confused to with the 24hour clock system. After 4 decades reading time in UTC (there go the bloody French again preventing us from using GMT) I get mixed up very easily.

If MSQ mean 3pm why can't they just say that instead of 1500 which, in my mind, gets converted to 1am. Prats.

[fisher28]

i'm a commercial fisher and look at the tide guide alot,i think the little old orange tide guide was great.easy to find,rediculously easy to read and cheap as well.i was horrified to see the change in format.although im in my early thirties,i had gotten used to reading the tides in imperial.yes we have had the decimal system for a long time but there is no damage to be done by having both systems in a tide guide surely.pure bullying and people trying to justify their government jobs.what a democracy!!