Jacobs Well VMR loses boats

[tigermullet]

I hope the report on one of the TV news channels tonight was incorrect.

They said that a couple of Jacobs Well VMR boats were set loose by (??) in the early hours of Sunday morning and were found downstream from Jacobs Well on Monday.

That surely couldn't happen, could it? They might have been hidden but the implication was that both boats were drifting.

[boatboy50]

Hey TM,

I saw the story too.

Vandals damaged the boats, slashed seats, electronics ect, and then cut the fuel lines and ropes and set both boats drifting down the channel in the wee hours of the morning. It was all caught on security camera, and one of the losers have now been caught.

I hope he dobs his mate in, and the two of them meet with an ugly time in jail, but I know it won't happen with this piss poor excuse we call rehabilitation. They will get a slap on the wrist and a naughty boy talk.

Too bad if a boat had of rolled on the bar that morning and these idiots aided in the deaths of the occupents because of a stupid act to disable two vital pieces of rescue equipment.

OK, time for a Panadol. My blood pressure is boiling.

Darren

[dnej]

Hard to believe.Just a shaking my head here.

[TheRealAndy]

Its about the same level as stealing a police car.

If any of the jacobs well VMR lads are reading this thread then make sure you pipe up. I will happily drop down to help out with repairs.

[tigermullet]

My bet is the same as Darren (Boatboy) - very little if anything will be handed out as a penalty to these vandals.

I suspect the TV report was incorrect about both boats drifting around for over 24 hours.

[Knotpretty]

It's a sad fact but todays society has far too many of these clowns in it. And yes a smack on the wrist or warning is all they'll get.
Crime committed by any one of any age should be punished. Fill the prisons then build more new ones get the scum off the streets so decent law abiding people can enjoy this great country.
I'm in NSW but if there is anything I can do to help repair the damage please post.

Mojo

[MyEscape]

Should be flogged for this type of behaviour. No other penalty, like probation etc should apply.

In the building where I work there is a Community Corrections Office upstairs. You should see the attitude of some of the young folk going up there. They could not give a rats a...

A typical slap on the wrist is not effective. Not in this day and age.

Actually I see on the ABC website an 18 year old has been caught for the offence though. If he doesn't get flogged in public then he should be made to clean and polish the VMR boats each weekend for a whole year. Wearing a teeshirt "this is my punishment for destroying good peoples property"

Steve

[NEWBY]

Its about the same level as stealing a police car.

If any of the jacobs well VMR lads are reading this thread then make sure you pipe up. I will happily drop down to help out with repairs.
Yeah mate but this only theft in this case if they DONT burn the car....If the torch it, they get a community service award...:D


Jus kidin;)

[garman1]

2 years in the armed forces............ lets see him mouth off to a drill instructor.

[Kdog]

Do you think I could take them fishing at the fifty fathom mark, mind you, I would be the only person to come back!!!

[jtpython]

They should be beaten or stoned
What goes thru the heads of these people no excuse for the oxygen theives
JT

[Member101]

I know a good punishment.

make them change the baits on shark drum lines...



By swimming the baits out to the buoys. MWA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi All
Saw the story on the news as well. Make them help with the repairs and make them pay for it as well. Give them community service in the form of making them members of the VMR and show them the value of just what the VMR does and how hard they campaign for funding.

Needless vandalism and needless expense for a well deserving organisation.

Ronnie

[swabio]

2 years in the armed forces............ lets see him mouth off to a drill instructor.

Hmmm nope... why put ####wits in the ADF ? Thieves and vandals are not the kind of ppl you really want responsible for protecting their colleagues are they?

What we really need is this dude....

http://www.texasrainmaker.com/2005/06/04/111793349229233723/

[Chimo]

Hi All

I think one of them gave himself up after the news last night hence ...............

No doubt the others who were involved will soon have their details added to the charge sheet

SILLY SILLY young men who will hopefully make restitution before their court appearance and with some luck will grow out of this type of behavoir before they go inside and waste their lives and totally disappoint their parents.

Cheers
Chimo

VMR boats damaged, charges laid

| December 30th, 2009


POLICE have charged an 18-year-old man from Jacobs Well with unlawful use of a motor vessel, wilful damage and stealing after two VMR Rescue Boats were damaged between December 27 and December 28.
He will appear in the Beenleigh Magistrates Court on January 14.


AND

Teen charged over stolen VMR boats

Date: 30 December 2009 - 07:58am

http://www.mygc.com.au/images/global/icon-text-plus.gif (javascript:void(0))http://www.mygc.com.au/images/global/icon-text-minus.gif (javascript:void(0))http://www.mygc.com.au/images/global/icon-print.gif (http://www.mygc.com.au/news/article-print-style.php?article_id=20941)http://www.mygc.com.au/images/global/icon-email.png (http://www.mygc.com.au/news/tell-a-friend.php?article_id=20941)
A teenager who allegedly caused more than $25,000 damage to two Volunteer Marine Rescue boats has turned himself in to police.

Police said the rescue boats were stolen from Jacobs Well on Sunday night and found on Monday morning with extensive damage.

Police charged the 18-year-old man who is from the area with unlawful use of a motor vessel, wilful damage and stealing.

He is due to appear in Beenleigh Magistrates Court on January 14.

[PinHead]

and he is a local...he won't be well liked around home now.
I cannot work out where this vandalism and violence culture came from but something has to be done about it...and soon.

[Bros]

From what I saw on TV the damage would be lucky to reach $5000. When the lynch mob sit back and look at it are their kids capable of this type of action if they were in the age group? If they say no they could be in for a surprise.
I was guilty of the same action many many many years ago when in Townsville with a friend of mine we set 3 dinghy loose in Ross River. Why did we do it well I don't know but my friend was the son of a police sergeant.
A second incident resulted in a visit to my house by the police and my parents weren't too happy with a police car out the front and they weren't as well marked as they are now. After a talking to by the police sergeant (not my mates father) I ended up ditching my friends at the time and behaved myself.
With this incident seeing one of them handed himself it it would be a shame if he had to go to court it would be better if the offender, police and VMR people could get together and make some arrangement for him to work off this incident by volunteering.
Making an example of him achieves nothing as people of his age don't look a the news and it could elevate him to here status.

[4x4frog]

Bros, what a load of modern day softly softly attitude CRAP. Sure we all did silly things when we were young but to set rescue craft loose, no matter what the monetary value is STUPID in the least.
I say, set them all in a small dinghy and leave them in the middle of the bay on a very blowy afternoon with only 2 canoe paddles and let them get back to land themselves. You can bet the little sooks would be in tears before the boat left them.::)

[Chimo]

Reading the calls for flogging or its equivalent by a number of repondents to this thread I have to make a comment. Many years ago, in a reasonably small community, my work vehicle had a tyre slashed by a young man, apparently in a fit of "testosterone" or whatever. I and my neighbours caught him and held him and called the police.

He was not a happy chap and got less happy the longer we waited for the police. It turned out that he was the son of one of the local Police. He had a ride in the divi van to the lockup and from all accounts was one terrified young man.

To make a long story short I didn't press charges but required that the tyre be replaced which it was.

Years later the young man, minus any official blemishes on his character / record ended up surviving a probety check and now is contributing as an officer in one of the state fire services.

A local conference / coffee with the VMR and Police would be worthwhile to consider the next steps. Charges can be dropped or if not at least mitigation can be offered if it is called for.

By all means those with a direct role in this VMR incident might consider action that rectifies the damage teaches the vandals a lesson but doesn't leave these individuals without a future. Softley softley catchee monkey.

On the other hand if these guys are recidivists and they have had multiple chances without seeing the light then throw the book at them.

Cheers
Chimo

[Daryl McPhee]

I live in Jacobs Well, a stones throw from the VMR. It's an appalling act whether it is $1,000 or $10,000 damage.

It's a close knit township. There are only about a dozen or so 18 year olds so it is not going to take long to find out how the culprit(s) are.

There have been a couple of kids causing trouble so we have our suspisions.

[TheRealAndy]

I reckon they should force the offender to work on the VMR boat for a year. I would even be happy for him to work on my crew here at shorncliffe.

We have the VMRAQ RIB trail boat here at the moment, I dare say that will be towed up to jacobs well for the lads to use.

[Daryl McPhee]

I think that is a good suggestion Andy.

[Bros]

A local conference / coffee with the VMR and Police would be worthwhile to consider the next steps. Charges can be dropped or if not at least mitigation can be offered if it is called for.

By all means those with a direct role in this VMR incident might consider action that rectifies the damage teaches the vandals a lesson but doesn't leave these individuals without a future. Softley softley catchee monkey.

On the other hand if these guys are recidivists and they have had multiple chances without seeing the light then throw the book at them.


My sentiments entirely and I'm sure if many of those advocating flogging, hanging etc were to sit down and think for while they would come to the same conclusion.

[PinHead]

I doubt the VMR would want anything to do with him. Stick him a prison cell for a week or two. next it could be your property he is vandalising.

[tigermullet]

Those posts by Bros and Chimo stopped me in my tracks. Made me think.

Hands up all those who didn't do at least one stupid thing in their youth and either got away with it or were caught and given a second chance or, maybe, even forgiven and then went on to lead an exemplary life.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

St. Tigermullet;D

[PinHead]

Those posts by Bros and Chimo stopped me in my tracks. Made me think.

Hands up all those who didn't do at least one stupid thing in their youth and either got away with it or were caught and given a second chance or, maybe, even forgiven and then went on to lead an exemplary life.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

St. Tigermullet;D

LMAO at the "St."

[tigermullet]

Well. I am. After my epiphany on the road to Jacobs Well when I vowed to give up slinging off at VMR and the Water Police, choosing instead to keep certain thoughts to myself, I reckoned the qualification had been gained.

It's hard though and the time might have arrived where daily self-flagellation is required to keep up such a Christian endeavour

I would not have wished this vandalism on them - nor one anyone else. Boats are sacred things and should not be so casually damaged for 'kicks'. Even the ones with ETEC,s hanging off the back.;D

[MyEscape]

Tigermullet,
Well I for one did not do things like smashing other peoples property or stealing or the like whne I was young. You may have? or perhaps not. I don't know.

I said earlier that I see young people going to the Corrections office regularly and based on their attitude they do not give a stuff.

Steve

[MyWay]

I doubt the VMR would want anything to do with him. Stick him a prison cell for a week or two. next it could be your property he is vandalising.
week or two no way 10 years min.

no sorry or forgivnes for such behavior


myway

[efc]

yep he should be in a prison cell, on his hands and knees copping some "Love" from big Daddy

[Mister]

Those posts by Bros and Chimo stopped me in my tracks. Made me think.

Hands up all those who didn't do at least one stupid thing in their youth and either got away with it or were caught and given a second chance or, maybe, even forgiven and then went on to lead an exemplary life.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

St. Tigermullet;D

Stuff them, attitudes are attitudes but these days some people have completely lost it and things need to change. How this change comes about is rather irrelevent but it needs to happen and quick.

The attitudes are a real problem with some of these young people. Like at an accident the other day, most of the normal people were trying to help the victims with blankets, water for burns etc but the young ones oh no what was more important to them, bloody mobile phones and footage of people dying! More important to have footage these days for youtube than to actually help, no stuff them, throw the book at em !!!!!

This is stupidity and these are complete idiots.

[tigermullet]

Tigermullet,
Well I for one did not do things like smashing other peoples property or stealing or the like whne I was young. You may have? or perhaps not. I don't know.

I said earlier that I see young people going to the Corrections office regularly and based on their attitude they do not give a stuff.

Steve

No, I didn't either. But what other sins hast thou committed by thought, word or deed, my son?;D (Just practicing saintly phrases here)

Coveting thy neighbour's wife is right up there with the biggies. Unless it's my neighbour's wife. She's really ugly with a temperament to match - nobody has coveted her in decades.

It is very hard to get some balance. The attitude of not giving a stuff is disappointing. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that punishment by rape, as advocated by efc, is definitely not a solution.

[Mister]

Stop looking for excuses for these idiots, the sooner these type of people understand that some would prefer them strung up then maybe they would think twice.

Like forget all this rubbish about sins thou has committed this is stupidity at its absolute idiot lowest act.

[seastorm]

I think the boys from VMR should take these two idiots for a run in their boat down to the Pin Bar on a outgoing tide and give them a life jacket and a EPIRB and put them overboard and see who come to save them.

[tigermullet]

Stop looking for excuses for these idiots, the sooner these type of people understand that some would prefer them strung up then maybe they would think twice.

Like forget all this rubbish about sins thou has committed this is stupidity at its absolute idiot lowest act.


Here's a hint, Mister. The serious part was in the last paragraph of my previous response.

I am not looking for excuses nor do I condone the deplorable actions of these vandals AND I do not know what the answer is.

It's got me beat why anyone would do such a thing but if we string them up then they won't get a chance to think twice, will they?

This discussion could go on forever but, if so, it will happen without any further input by me.

[iqarus]

should put the both of them in a dinghy with a 1/8th hole drilled in the bottom and anchor them at jumping pin bar. then have all the jacobs well VMR boys sit in their cat with a carton and watch.

[Mike Delisser]

and he is a local...he won't be well liked around home now.
I cannot work out where this vandalismand violence culture came from but something has to be done about it...and soon.

Relative to Qld population the 20's & 30's were almost twice as bad as now.

[levinge]

Name and Shame is the best form of punishment for these idiots.

Full page Advert in the newspaper and nice long segment in the news with their ugly mugs and names in bold underneath. Lets see how long the general public give them curry (not to mention the grandmothers)....

Then!!!!!

A number of punishments come to mind!!

Pumping and cleaning the bilges of vessels at the slipways!!!

Emptying the bed pans at the local hospital!!!!

Make them stand at the entrance to the local shopping centre and apologise to every person who enter the facility (for the whole day) and explain why they are apologising.....

If they don't like it, give them the option of some time in the cells with the big boys!!!!

[Donny Boy]

"Hey Dog !!.......... Pass me that first stone mate, willya ??"

Just another reason for the Laws of the land to be changed to having severe minimum punishments handed down.
>:(
Not " the applicable law requires a sentence of between ........." & they get 6-12 months good behaviour bond........that's crap !!

If someone had died / been injured, as a result of this lunacy......would this clown & /or his mate have manslaughter or GBH charges added ?

I'll bet lefty he wouldn't........and that's the problem............no deterrent !

If you commit this crime, for whatever reason, you are in deep shtoom for a minimum period of ( insert appropriate time here )

Why not make them accountable ?

Geez, we have to be accountable for every other damn thing we do in life !
Work, Home, Sport, Relationships..........why not crime ????
With all due respect people, I don't want to consider the possibility of his getting a chance to re-offend.....nor the possibility of some fool thinking
( for whatever reason, testosterone, booze, drugs, or stupidity )
" that was cool ....they got a slap on the wrist for that "

As stated by others, (wiser than I ) I don't know what the answer is,
but I do know this.....

We're too bloody soft.....too many bloody do-gooders & Civil Libitarians.

Remember the saying ? " Do the Crime...you do the time......."

Who the hell cares why they did it............they did it..............end of story..........

We ( as a society) need to ensure they'll never forget it. Bloody Morons.

PS.. Squeaky Clean here ..........plenty more stones too.
Time to take a Bex , & lie down................
PPS. This was considered Newsworthy enough to be of the lead stories on Ch 9 news in Melbourne...and they condemned it there too !

[Chimo]

Hi Don

I'm not in any way defending their stupid actions and as I indicated before I'm interested in rehabilitation; if possible, recompense being made for the damage; or the book being thrown if these offenders are recidivists.

I recently served on a jury that dealt with a criminal case involving nearly $100,000 theft with aspects of conspiracy etc etc . After a lengthy trial the two defendants were found to be guilty by a jury of their peers.

All sounding good to you, ready for the book to be thrown at them? It thurns out that prior to sentencing with prior convictions revealed we were dealing with career crims.

Ready for the book to thrown?

Well long story short the principal crim was awarded a sentence of 4 yrs and required to serve 2 yrs. Pretty heavy book the crim is being hit with, not!

So my point, as suggested in an earlier post, remains that if you can change the direction of these people lives its a damn sight better for all concerned. The offender and us. It costs us close to 100K each per year to lock them up and while they are there they just learn how to better crims.

Surely if we can change the direction of these vandals lives its got to worth a try. And like i said I agree, we all agree, what they did was stupid etc etc but this is not Iran etc so lets not get carried away with eye for eye and hands for hands and stoning etc.

Turn them around for all our benefits or give up and send them down and teach them to better crims and never contribute to society!

Time for my Bex too...........

Cheers
Chimo
PS Happy New Year you all.

[Xahn1960]

"Hey Dog !!.......... Pass me that first stone mate, willya ??"

Just another reason for the Laws of the land to be changed to having severe minimum punishments handed down.
>:(
Not " the applicable law requires a sentence of between ........." & they get 6-12 months good behaviour bond........that's crap !!

If someone had died / been injured, as a result of this lunacy......would this clown & /or his mate have manslaughter or GBH charges added ?

I'll bet lefty he wouldn't........and that's the problem............no deterrent !

If you commit this crime, for whatever reason, you are in deep shtoom for a minimum period of ( insert appropriate time here )

Why not make them accountable ?

Geez, we have to be accountable for every other damn thing we do in life !
Work, Home, Sport, Relationships..........why not crime ????
With all due respect people, I don't want to consider the possibility of his getting a chance to re-offend.....nor the possibility of some fool thinking
( for whatever reason, testosterone, booze, drugs, or stupidity )
" that was cool ....they got a slap on the wrist for that "

As stated by others, (wiser than I ) I don't know what the answer is,
but I do know this.....

We're too bloody soft.....too many bloody do-gooders & Civil Libitarians.

Remember the saying ? " Do the Crime...you do the time......."

Who the hell cares why they did it............they did it..............end of story..........

We ( as a society) need to ensure they'll never forget it. Bloody Morons.

PS.. Squeaky Clean here ..........plenty more stones too.
Time to take a Bex , & lie down................
PPS. This was considered Newsworthy enough to be of the lead stories on Ch 9 news in Melbourne...and they condemned it there too !

Completely agree, without a suitable deterrent this kind of behaviour spreads unchecked. Time to tighten up the system and bring back accountability for your actions.....

Yes, I got up to silly $hit when I was young, paid a high price for it too.... Consequences are part of learning.

Bill.

[Donny Boy]

[quote=Chimo;1113657]



..........So my point, as suggested in an earlier post, remains that if you can change the direction of these people lives its a damn sight better for all concerned.........

100 % Spot on Chimo,

* Changing the system, to have some consequences,
( thanks Bill..... that was the word I was looking for ) is a good deterrent, and a possible way to alter direction.

If even 1 person becomes aware that a dumb act , or even this dumb act, carries a substantial minimum penalty of ( insert whatever ) then they might think twice.
If they then go ahead......be it on their own head.

Awareness can be in the form of signage.
Signage is cheaper than the damage( in this case )

You know..........
" WARNING "
A Minumum Penalty of ( again....insert whatever ) will be applied to any person vandalising any part of this facility...etc. etc.

If they choose to rip the sign down / deface it...that counts too.
No whinging.....they had a choice.

Consequences.........

The poor Copper on the street busts his tail to get these clowns............
and the system lets him down........lets us all down...........:wut:

As before ...I don't have the answer....but I know a way to start.

Write to your local State and /or Federal MP, people........
Tell them we've had enough of this bull$hit .....................I am.

To change the system.....they have to change the way it's applied.
We have to change the way they think about applying it.


* Extract from the Book " The World according to Donny Boy!"
Published by Martin, Barton & Fargo. Jan 2010.
Distributed by Soap Box inc.

Happy New Year to all too! ;)

( Pass the Bex again , Honey! The last one didn't work..... )

[Chimo]

Well I guess we will have to wait to hear from the man on the spot (DM) as well as the court report after Benleigh on the 14th to see what might end up happening. I hope that in the meantime the "idiots" pay VMR for the damage.

Cheers
Chimo

[NEWBY]

Bros, what a load of modern day softly softly attitude CRAP. Sure we all did silly things when we were young but to set rescue craft loose, no matter what the monetary value is STUPID in the least.
I say, set them all in a small dinghy and leave them in the middle of the bay on a very blowy afternoon with only 2 canoe paddles and let them get back to land themselves. You can bet the little sooks would be in tears before the boat left them.::)
$hit mate, bit hard on Bros there eh? I agree with you. Too bloody soft today. Ya whack ya kid you can get your arse in a sling from childrens services and get fined or even sued. I have fantastic kids. They have been raised both as realists (Santa and the Easter Bunny are all BS) and with morals. We have allowed them certain freedoms that we get frowned upon for and have been criticised for being too strict in others. We all have our opinions eh. The old days had their good points, and bad. We have goe from one extreme to the other. As with the Greens, PEW and other " organisations, shall we call them the "minority"? The MAJORITY DO NOT have the say any more because we dont ask for it. We accept, be it willingly or unwillingly, whatever we are told to do.

If you want change mate? If you want to see punishments hardened up? If you want to see a Majority Rule again? SPEAK UP. But unlike the statement to BROS, (and yes I have been guilty of attacking people personally myself becasue of my own opinions) We need to Amalgamate, coagulate, Join forces and GET ALONG even, on this site and any others that have the SAME FIGHT at least for the near future. We vote We have a say..But only with the numbers mate. Individually we are getting slaughtered by the minorities. The Law. Green Zones. How and what we do even how much electricity we use. Were told how and when by a minority. Band together for a while. We are the majority when we do. Not just about fishing either. I am talking all our civil rights. EG 1 man goes nutso with a gun we all cop the grief. Just look at how many crimes are comitted with LICENSED firearms. I believe it is less that 2% The MINORITY. POOL FENCES, theres another extreme one. I could list another 50 off the top of my head where the minority have changed out lifestyles for the worse and we have not done or said anything about it. Oh we whinge and moan to mates and wives etc. That does sweet F.A.
I think it was Desmond TUTU that said "together"...."rising UuuuuuuuuP in the face of adversity"

Boy I am starting to get a bit deep here..... Unlike me.

I think my passion for protecting my lifestyle is becoming an obsession. Could be worse. I could sit bac and say/do nothing I spose...

[Donny Boy]

I hope that in the meantime the "idiots" pay VMR for the damage.
Chimo[/quote]



Amen to that..................

but you just KNOW they won't have a bean between them......like their brains.

;)

[Chimo]

Your probably correct Don but in a case like this the parents need to shell out and take responsibility even it means they have to pay.

I cannot think of a better way to communicate to the parents that they need (needed ) to be responsible for bringing up their spawn.

Also isn't it a great way to spend the kids inheritance?

Cheers
Chimo

[shano]

i think send them to jail! .. making them work for the vmr would be a reward not a punishment! i would love to work for them if i had the spare time.

[Xahn1960]

Your probably correct Don but in a case like this the parents need to shell out and take responsibility even it means they have to pay.

I cannot think of a better way to communicate to the parents that they need (needed ) to be responsible for bringing up their spawn.

Also isn't it a great way to spend the kids inheritance?

Cheers
Chimo

Why the parents??? I've raised 3 boys through the teenage years and it ain't no fun at all. It was bad enough when we were allowed to discipline them, but now days that is considered abuse. No, leave the parents out of this, the boys have rights, let them learn that along with rights comes responsibility, they need to be accountable for their own actions.

Bill.

[Xahn1960]

i think send them to jail! .. making them work for the vmr would be a reward not a punishment! i would love to work for them if i had the spare time.

If they have done this sort of crap before then jail is definately the best option, but if this is a first act of stupidity then making them work off or pay for the damages is a better form of punsihment. Somehow with our justice system I doubt either will happen.

Bill.

[AnthonyL]

I would put the little ferol down at the boat ramp every weekend with a large sign attached to him saying what he did, with a collection tin (locked of course).

[iqarus]

I would put the little ferol down at the boat ramp every weekend with a large sign attached to him saying what he did, with a collection tin (locked of course).

so we, that pay our boat rego, trailer rego, fishing licenses and yearly taxes, have to contribute to fix the damage he caused ?

stick him at the boat ramp with the sign and a baseball bat on a length of rope would be a much better idea.

[AnthonyL]

so we, that pay our boat rego, trailer rego, fishing licenses and yearly taxes, have to contribute to fix the damage he caused ?

stick him at the boat ramp with the sign and a baseball bat on a length of rope would be a much better idea.


I didn't mean a collection to pay for the damage, I meant a VMR collection tin. Making him actually pay for the damage would be a great start but I am sure "we" will end up paying for his damage anyhow.

[White Pointer]

G'day,

I'm all for rehabilitation as an alternative to locking them up with real crims who can teach them worse.

My judgement would be that they each spend two years in the voluntary service of the VMR and learn some skills and understand the gravity of what they did. Over that two years they will have to earn the respect of their superiors and peers - because they will be greeted with scorn on arrival.

It will be a test of their courage and over two years we might be able to make something of them and get something back.

Regards,

White Pointer