ETEC or Not to ETEC

[Territorian]

hello all, I'm planning on purchasing (via going into debt) a Formosa 580 CC and was wondering whether I should put an Etec on the back or a good 4 stroke like a Yamaha or Honda. I get conflicting reports from various people about the Etecs, some say they are shit and a waste of money. I also feel that two strokes are devils spawn and tempermental as well as being big polluters and the number one cause of triggering sea sickness.
But apparently Etecs have low to no emissions and have a huge power to weight ratio, so therefore you can strap a bigger HP engine on the back due the lower weight. So if on the Formosa 580, the highest HP allowable is 140HP, but if you use an Etec, would it be logical to go, say to a 160 or 180 or even a 200HP?

Or maybe should i just go for the 4 stroke, for many hours of service with the constant clean and quiet power? and only half the service cost?:wut:

[Chimo]

Hi T

If the max HP is 140 then thats it, wespecially if you intend to insure. if your borrowing you would be nuts to not insure or you could be payiong something off that you no longer have if it gets stolen or it sinks and you survive you will still have to pay.

As well as HP boats also have a max weight you can han off the back.

Whether you go ETEC or 4 stroke one of the major determinants IMHO would be who is to service your new debt? I'd buy the motor that you can get serviced easiest by a quality marine tech.

Also if your in the boonies, based on your chosen name, and the fuel you have access to is pretty crappy maybe you would be better off with a simple carby 2 stroke rather than either an ETEC or one of the new 4 strokes both of which have all the high tech stuff on them. Etec have a 3 yr no service situation too but Id still check the gearbox a give a good check over re impellers anyhow.

I'm still running old style 2 strokes that are easy to service and with carbies and a bit more of a thirst for TCW 3 and ULP seem to cope with the crap fuel we now get and also dont seem to mind if it came out of the servo some months ago. Also 2 stroke motors are a fair bit peppier than the 4s or at least the 4s a few yrsold that ive been exposed to.

So to sum up you need to weigh up a few factors before you make up your mind.

Let us know what you decide......

Cheers
Chimo

[siegfried]

140 suzuki, will not let you down mate they are everything an out board should be. Have had one and would definitely own another. (having said that you wouldnt go wrong wiyh any of the new 4 stks

[Territorian]

Thanks fellas, all very great info...............I'll let you know what eventually ends up on the eventual boat! either way, theres going to be tight lines and broad smiles all round!!
I'm based in Cairns now, awesome, I get the best of all fishing worlds!!!

[whatscracken]

Not to Etec. Go the Yamaha or Suzuki 4 stroke.

[Knotpretty]

I'm very pro etec. 5 year warranty, first service at 300 hrs and you won't make the fuel outlets rich. All the top brand motors are excellent. It will come down to power to weight on the back i would go for max power .There are times when the boat is fully loaded that the extra power is truly appreciated.

[juju]

When i update ill go another e-tec in a sec , my 75 has been great 3 years no problems...im a fan...i was directed to a 50-60 ..i went the 75 and that little bit extra never hurts

[Jabba_]

E-tec have not been without there problems, the earlier models have had a few injectors that have failed, mine included.. Apparently the 2010 have had some changes done to there injector, I think mainly in there quality control and material used...

The fact that E-tec have a 5 year warranty is hard to look pass, and is comforting to know that if anything goes wrong and needs fixing you won't be dipping your hand into your pocket to pay for it...

Most injector failures today are a result off water in fuel, so make sure the dealer installs a racor filter with a clear bowl so you can check fuel quality and water will be visible if there is any in the bowl....
Remember this,,, No Manufacture will honor there warranty if water is found in the fuel tank or fuel lines, so make sure you have adequate protection... A lot off experience boaters have 2 fuel/water separators filters...

In the way of performance the 130 E-tec is a ripper with loads off torque to boot, there is not a single 4st that can match it for it's performance..

It's economy will be close to a 4st, and in some cases the E-tec can be more economical, but usually the 4st is a little less thirsty then E-tec.. In your size motor were talking a difference off 5 - 10lts for a days worth off boating..

However if you spend the day trolling you will use less fuel then a 4st.. My 250 uses 8-10 lts @ 6-8kn... I would imagine a 130 E-tec would use near half off my consumption...

The E-tec (set to XD100) has the lowest emission then any other motor, Honda is on a equal footing.. As for smell it is no more then a 4st, slight differant in smell, but no worse, at idle and trolling speed the fuel use is very low and the oil ratio is minimal...
The E-tec has 2 oil ratio settings, default and XD100.. To get minimium smell from the exhaust you want the motor set to XD100, and to be using XD100 oil... The oil is expensive, but you use less on the XD100 setting......

Basically any new motor you buy is be good, but the mechanic/dealership that services your will have a lot to do with your motor. If there after sales service is crap, then rest assure your experience with your new motor will turn to crap also.....

Find the best dealer in your area and buy from them....

[Reel Blue]

You can smell the ETEC, my wife will vouch for that. Not all of the time and I did not find it a problem. I had a 175 set for XD 100 and I could count on using at least 1 litre of oil for every 80 lires of petrol at cruising RPM of 3800. This increases to 1 litre of oil for every 60 litres of petrol at WOT. At idle the ratio leans to 300:1. (All verified by computer analysis and normal.) Considering what you pay for the oil, and that most of my fishing trips consumed around 80-100 lires of fuel, I believe this usage is significant. I think its also significant as my old standard yamaha 55 hp two stroke ran an oil/fuel ratio of 100:1.

My ETEC 175 motor was very powerful when taking off and holeshot was sensational. Fuel consumption at idle and slow trolling speeds was excellent. However, fuel consumption in the mid cruising range is where I believe the four strokes have a slight edge. I had my ETEC for just short of three years and had about 385 hours on it. It was a very good motor.

You can leave your ETEC motor for 300 hours without a scheduled service, as long as you still apply your normal periodic checks. However, I personally never felt comfortable leaving it that long when boating in offshore waters, so used to get services done each year or betwen 100-150 hours.

I am extremely happy with my current yamaha four stroke. I cannot smell it at all and I have not missed refilling the oil tank. Holeshot is not quite as good as my previous etec, but seamless power is available after that. I am happy to service it every 100 hours. Hopefully it will provide trouble free boating for a long time!

I recommend you consider what type of boating you are going to be doing and then decide what motor will suit you best. If you are going to be doing a lot of hours at cruising speeds I would consider the four stroke. If you are going to be doing a lot of water skiing maybe the ETEC with its light weight and early power band would suit. Just weigh up the oil costs. Good luck!

[wrxhoon]

If your boat is rated max 140, this is the max power you can use , some boats have a max weight as well these days because some 4 strokes are much heavier . If you put a 150 at the back make sure you tell your insurance , thye may not cover you, I know club marine will not cover you .


I don't have an E-tec, I have a 200 Merc Optimax , they are similar, both 2 stroke engines. E-Teck uses very high fuel pressure, Opti uses a compressed air at the same time the injector pulses the fuel in the cylinder and much lower fuel pressure.
I find the opti very frugal on fuel, at very low speed (600 rpm ) she uses 1.4 lt per hour , even lower than 4 strokes . 4 Strokes will use slightly less fuel at mid range 3500-4 but don't forget the 4 stroke at that rpm will have a lot less power than the 2 stroke ( same HP engines) . The 4 st will use more fule at higher rpm where she will have the Max power.
You will use a smaller pitch prop on the 4 stroke ( same HP engines ) so you will be reving it higher to get the same speed .
In the end you will use about the same fuel on same boat same hp engines .

2 St will give you better holeshot than 4 stroke , 4 stroke will last longer before re-building it but using it for a hoby you will never have to rebuilt either, unless something fails in either engine . Corrosion will take over before that happens , if you use it daily buy the 4 stroke .
As far as weight goes these days not a lot in it but 4 stroke will be heavier.
You need more maintenance on the 4 stroke as there are a lot more moving parts. If and when time comes to re-built 2 stroke is a lot easier/ cheaper.
The oil the E-tec amd Opti use is very expensive , I buy mine for $11 per lt but they use very little, not much more than the oil you will use in a 4 stroke if you change oil every 50 hours .
Emissions about the same as 4 strokes, they all pass the new Callifornia Emissions laws. In USA you can't buy old school carby or fuel injected 2 strokes now.
You will never see any blue smoke but you will get a very faint smell if you follow the boat .
4 strokes are much quieter at trolling speed , quieter at mid range but about the same at WOT. E-Tec is quieter than Opti.
At the end of the day you have to decide what suits your needs , price , service etc...If you don't use your boat for long periods buy a 2 stroke , if you use it weekly buy anything you want, if you do 300 hrs + per year buy a 4 banger.
Over the years , mainly on older engines I have noticed Mercs and Johnson/Evinrudes don't corode as much as the Jap engines probably due to the better alloy they use. The old Suzuki 2 strokes use to get holes due to corossion.
I would think there days they have impoved .
Whatever you buy ( well known makes, not Chinese) you will have trouble free running for years to come .

[Wahoo]

You will use a smaller pitch prop on the 4 stroke ( same HP engines ) so you will be reving it higher to get the same speed .
In the end you will use about the same fuel on same boat same hp engines .

.


and this is why they have different gear box ratios

Daz

PS' go the Honda 4s

[WalFish]

I'm with Daz on this one. Went for a 135hp Honda on my Formosa Tomahawk 580 after a test run in a Formosa Classic 580. Very happy with the performance and can't wait to get my hands on mine!!:D

[Jabba_]

If your boat is rated max 140, this is the max power you can use , some boats have a max weight as well these days because some 4 strokes are much heavier . If you put a 150 at the back make sure you tell your insurance , thye may not cover you, I know club marine will not cover you .


I don't have an E-tec, I have a 200 Merc Optimax , they are similar, both 2 stroke engines. E-Teck uses very high fuel pressure, Opti uses a compressed air at the same time the injector pulses the fuel in the cylinder and much lower fuel pressure.
I find the opti very frugal on fuel, at very low speed (600 rpm ) she uses 1.4 lt per hour , even lower than 4 strokes . 4 Strokes will use slightly less fuel at mid range 3500-4 but don't forget the 4 stroke at that rpm will have a lot less power than the 2 stroke ( same HP engines) . The 4 st will use more fule at higher rpm where she will have the Max power.
You will use a smaller pitch prop on the 4 stroke ( same HP engines ) so you will be reving it higher to get the same speed .
In the end you will use about the same fuel on same boat same hp engines .

2 St will give you better holeshot than 4 stroke , 4 stroke will last longer before re-building it but using it for a hoby you will never have to rebuilt either, unless something fails in either engine . Corrosion will take over before that happens , if you use it daily buy the 4 stroke .
As far as weight goes these days not a lot in it but 4 stroke will be heavier.
You need more maintenance on the 4 stroke as there are a lot more moving parts. If and when time comes to re-built 2 stroke is a lot easier/ cheaper.
The oil the E-tec amd Opti use is very expensive , I buy mine for $11 per lt but they use very little, not much more than the oil you will use in a 4 stroke if you change oil every 50 hours .
Emissions about the same as 4 strokes, they all pass the new Callifornia Emissions laws. In USA you can't buy old school carby or fuel injected 2 strokes now.
You will never see any blue smoke but you will get a very faint smell if you follow the boat .
4 strokes are much quieter at trolling speed , quieter at mid range but about the same at WOT. E-Tec is quieter than Opti.
At the end of the day you have to decide what suits your needs , price , service etc...If you don't use your boat for long periods buy a 2 stroke , if you use it weekly buy anything you want, if you do 300 hrs + per year buy a 4 banger.
Over the years , mainly on older engines I have noticed Mercs and Johnson/Evinrudes don't corode as much as the Jap engines probably due to the better alloy they use. The old Suzuki 2 strokes use to get holes due to corossion.
I would think there days they have impoved .
Whatever you buy ( well known makes, not Chinese) you will have trouble free running for years to come .

Good post wrxhoon, but the point were you say the E-te uses high fuel pressure, is incorrect.... Out off all the EFI and DI motors the E-tec has the lowest fuel pressure off all untill it enters the firing point off the injector.... From that point it goes from 25psi (IRC) up to 600psi depending on load and rpm..

So to understand it correctly, The E-tec fuel lines and rails are preasured up to 25psi, and only once the fuel in inside and directly behind the injector nossel is it compressed and forced out off the injector at a psi off 600 by a plunger....
The fuel is only under high pressure for the final 25 millimeters....

[WalFish]

Also forgot - check this thread out:
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=157759&highlight=formosa

It talks about the Formosa 580 performance figures a bit. Levinge gets about 70 km/hr at WOT from his 135hp Honda.;D Gets you a lot of places.......quickly.

[Luke G]

A 4 stroke is much easier to use, you dont have to work the throttles.

My 150 uses less then 5 litres an hour trolling at 5-6knots, not sure what the 2 stroke would use but for me its a cheap day trolling.

No mucking around with filling up oil tanks ever and its rare to hear injector failures, the etec seemed to have a few issues - new ones may be better.

[DarkHorse]

With the etec's at idle say trolling in creeks all day, do the plugs start to foul up like on other 2 strokes?? Years ago my then new mariner, I had to give it a good gut full every little while to keep it running smoothly.

I have heard that the larger HP etec's dont like slow trolling speeds and heat up quite quickly, anyone else heard or seen this problem??

[Dean1]

4 stroke= great resale + reliability + less fumes + ease of use.

With all the dramas the etec boys are having why would you do it to yourself??

Etecs still smell, especially if you have twins this would be annoying.

For the sake of a few more services of a 4 stroke it will pay off down the track.

Do yourself a favour and buy a 4 stroke ;)

[Jabba_]

No to both cernarios. With any e tec you can troll them all day with out the fear off fouling a plug.
I have a 250 e tec and regulary troll at 1700rpm for up to 10hrs straight.
I also use the motor to hold me in position against the wind or current. And that can be for a few hours each time at idle.

[wrxhoon]

So to understand it correctly, The E-tec fuel lines and rails are preasured up to 25psi, and only once the fuel in inside and directly behind the injector nossel is it compressed and forced out off the injector at a psi off 600 by a plunger....
The fuel is only under high pressure for the final 25 millimeters


Thats correct , its the injector in the E-tek that pressurises the fuel, not the pump. Only a mechanical pump like a diesel would be able to supply that kind of pressure and then you need some fuel lines to take that pressure .

I just wanted to point out the difference in the 2 engines. The Merc is an orbital engine as invented by Ralph Sarich, uses compressed air to atomize the fuel. E-Tek achieves the same by using injectors at much higher pressure to atomise the fuel.

This is why these engines ( Opti , Etec, HPDI,etc..) are very frugal on fuel, in some cases more so than 4 stroke outboards , 4 stroke outboards still use the old injection set up, when they strart using direct injection they should be much more fuel efficient .

Most new car engines use direct injection now for fuel eficiency, same as diesels .

[DeadWater]

If you read the warranty statment on the Etec, you will find if you use the motor in saltwater you will need a service as per a normal motor, only if you use the Etec in fresh water you do not need to have a service for 300 hrs.
But this is not the case for a Qptimax it carries a full 5 year warranty and a 3 years corrosion protection.
If you like ring a few outboard wreckers and find out what is the better motor you will find that not many have Optimax.

[Jabba_]

Deadhorse, can you please provide us with that warranty statement for the e tec. Im betting you can't.

[Wahoo]

If you read the warranty statment on the Etec, you will find if you use the motor in saltwater you will need a service as per a normal motor, only if you use the Etec in fresh water you do not need to have a service for 300 hrs.
But this is not the case for a Qptimax it carries a full 5 year warranty and a 3 years corrosion protection.
If you like ring a few outboard wreckers and find out what is the better motor you will find that not many have Optimax.

Jabba, going by deadwater's other posts, he is a dealer, and they dont sell E-Tecs...lol...

http://www.watersportsmarine.com.au/


Daz

[Rockrash]

Is resale value and resale popularity a consideration?

[boodo]

Ive got a 5.2cc formosa with a 90 etec and love it, to date haven't had a scrap of trouble and wouldn't hesitate putting one on my next rig.

Boodo

[Jabba_]

Jabba, going by deadwater's other posts, he is a dealer, and they dont sell E-Tecs...lol...

http://www.watersportsmarine.com.au/


Daz

That is the funnest thing I have read all week....
What a drop kick.. He might want to get his facst straight about warranties too, because Evinrudes has a full 5 year non-declining for every component, including your gauges, rubber hoses, the paint on your motor and it's even covered for corrosion for 5 years....

[wrxhoon]

I think you will find Evinrude came out with the 5 year Warranty first, because of the bad name the Ficht engines had . Brunswick marine had to follow with 5 years on their Optis just to be competitive.
You will also find Etek will cover you even when you race them , something Merc will not but then again its all about trying to win Business from Brunswick because all racing boats use to use them.
I wouldn't worry about warranty on either of them, they will honour it .

Read my previous posts to see the diffence in E-tek and Opti if you like but either of them will do the job well as would all well known 4 strokes.
If you want 2 stroke performance and 4 stroke quiteness, you can't go past VERADO , supercharged with plenty og downlow grunt and plenty of power for their size but you have to have deep pockets!!

[siegfried]

Is resale value and resale popularity a consideration?
Couldnt be , otherwise youd never consider one, except to hang off the bow aattatched to 5m of chain and a heap of rope;D ;D ;D

[ozscott]

Wow - they still seem to polarise opinion. There seems to be 2 very distinct camps - I wonder how many in the 'dont do it' camp have had first hand experience with one.

Cheers

[Steeler]

I have never owned a E-tec or any 4 stroke for that matter but i do chat very often with a dealer down my way who vigorously defends Johnos/Erudes of all vintages as being great outboards but the moment we move on to E-tecs and i can honestly say he stops with the praise.

Like i say not my opinion but that of a dealer and hands on marine mechanic for many a year.

Cheers

Steve

[MattyDucati]

Etec warranty means nothing when your 30mile offshore with a dead motor. if the max is 140hp you would be crazy not go with the suzy 140. Its a very nice motor, my father has one on his 585 haines. I have a 150 yam 4st and love it but if 140 is the max dont go bigger.
And yes 3 days ago a old freind who runs a charter boat in townsville killed his port side 90 etec. They think it snapped a crank!!

[Skusto]

warrenty means nothing?
i beg to differ sure if it breaks down 30 mile offshore you wont be happy having to be towed in but lets say its 4 years old and does the bad thing killing the powerhead! :(
What would u rather it covered by warrenty or to have to fork out the odd 10k to replace it?
Im sure i would rather the extended warrenty any day, its not just the etec that could do this its all the brands sure the chances might be slim but when i buy an outboard the one with the longest warrenty will always be far ahead of any other brands these days.
At the end of the day its piece of mind 5 years is a long time!

We have a 150 Etec upgraded fro a 115 yamaha 4 stroke and it has made a massive change to the boat a great improvement. Im not biased on what i get sure it has a couple of things that u have to get used to like touchy throttle and likes to run away but at the end of the day its a 2 stroke, power wise well no camparison, we will throw a 150 4 stroke on next to see which suits the boat better but at the stage were happy enough wth the etec!

[ozscott]

Reel-Blue - what size is your current Yammy 4 stroke?

Cheers

[Reel Blue]

250. On a different boat.

[MattyDucati]

warrenty means nothing?
i beg to differ sure if it breaks down 30 mile offshore you wont be happy having to be towed in but lets say its 4 years old and does the bad thing killing the powerhead! :(
What would u rather it covered by warrenty or to have to fork out the odd 10k to replace it?
Im sure i would rather the extended warrenty any day, its not just the etec that could do this its all the brands sure the chances might be slim but when i buy an outboard the one with the longest warrenty will always be far ahead of any other brands these days.
At the end of the day its piece of mind 5 years is a long time!


I live in a place with No VMR and knock you down storms come outa nowhere, so when your motor dies you better hope for the best.

[stinky-stabi]

yeah skutso your the ninth bloke ino who has gone from a yammy 4s to an e-tec..
best thing i ever did was not listen to all the so called self titled ex- spurts or i would have had no idea .....just like most

[Jabba_]

I live in a place with No VMR and knock you down storms come outa nowhere, so when your motor dies you better hope for the best.

if your area really is as dangerous as you say it is, wouldn't you have twin motors...

[whatscracken]

Or a Yamaha Jabba :D :D :D

[lee8sec]

Are BRP goint to extend the ETEC 5 year warranty deal to motors sold after 31 jan 2010? Leigh

[devendiva]

Hi all,

Having only owned one Etec and now one four stroke, I am no expert, but at least I have actually owned both so here is my two cents worth.

I recently sold a Haines Hunter 600 Classic with 175 Etec. I owned the boat for close to 18 months. In that time I was constantly playing with props, engine height etc to try and get the Etec performing well enough. My average fuel consumption was about 0.6 Nm / litre running in mid 20 knot range with a decent load on board. In an average trip of around 150Nm, I would also use close to 4 litres of XD100. This made things pretty expensive in my opinion.

I eventually got sick of playing with the setup and came to the conclusion that the boat was just underpowered and no amount of repropping was going to solve that. I got a couple of quotes to repower to something in the 200 - 225 HP range and it was going to cost me at least $10K (closer to $16K for a 4 banger) which I was not willing to spend. So I sold the whole thing back in July.

I have just taken delivery of my new Fisher 600 Maxi with 175 Suzuki 4 stroke. Used it on its maiden voyage on Saturday. 5 average sized guys, 250 litres of fuel under floor, all fishing gear, 250 litres of esky space full of food, ice, drinks, bait (& fish on the way home). I got DOUBLE the fuel economy of the Etec for the same size boat. Yes the Fisher would be a bit lighter than the Haines, but it is running a big deadrise (23 degrees) and I had trim tabs dug in as we were punching a nasty little chop all the way out for 3 1/2 hours. I was easily averaging 1.2 Nm / litre all the way there and home running in mid 20s. So I did a total of about 160 Nm on half a tank of fuel. In a very brief water test before this I saw 1.6 Nm / litre with just me on board and nothing else.

I am absolutely stoked. So for an average trip I do, I saved hundreds of dollars on fuel and around $60 on XD100.

Hope this helps.

Chris

[Vitamin Sea]

Hi all,

Having only owned one Etec and now one four stroke, I am no expert, but at least I have actually owned both so here is my two cents worth.

I recently sold a Haines Hunter 600 Classic with 175 Etec. I owned the boat for close to 18 months. In that time I was constantly playing with props, engine height etc to try and get the Etec performing well enough. My average fuel consumption was about 0.6 Nm / litre running in mid 20 knot range with a decent load on board. In an average trip of around 150Nm, I would also use close to 4 litres of XD100. This made things pretty expensive in my opinion.

I eventually got sick of playing with the setup and came to the conclusion that the boat was just underpowered and no amount of repropping was going to solve that. I got a couple of quotes to repower to something in the 200 - 225 HP range and it was going to cost me at least $10K (closer to $16K for a 4 banger) which I was not willing to spend. So I sold the whole thing back in July.

I have just taken delivery of my new Fisher 600 Maxi with 175 Suzuki 4 stroke. Used it on its maiden voyage on Saturday. 5 average sized guys, 250 litres of fuel under floor, all fishing gear, 250 litres of esky space full of food, ice, drinks, bait (& fish on the way home). I got DOUBLE the fuel economy of the Etec for the same size boat. Yes the Fisher would be a bit lighter than the Haines, but it is running a big deadrise (23 degrees) and I had trim tabs dug in as we were punching a nasty little chop all the way out for 3 1/2 hours. I was easily averaging 1.2 Nm / litre all the way there and home running in mid 20s. So I did a total of about 160 Nm on half a tank of fuel. In a very brief water test before this I saw 1.6 Nm / litre with just me on board and nothing else.

I am absolutely stoked. So for an average trip I do, I saved hundreds of dollars on fuel and around $60 on XD100.

Hope this helps.

Chris


G'Day

No wonder you sold the rig, those etec numbers are woefull, but seem to be about the norm for those motors in that size.

The numbers on the 175 Zuk are outstanding, very impressive.

200 Opti on the back of a 19C I average about 1.6km/l, have not seen a etec thread that comes close to that in these size motors. If I really behave myself can get it up around the 1.8 km/l.

Oil usage between 40~50:1 at cruise, jack at trolling speeds.
Troll @ 6.5knts uses about 6 litres/hr.

Regarding the original question, I would probably lean towards the 140 Zuk, do not think about a 150 because insurance will become void

Cheers

VS

[Jabba_]

Hi all,

Having only owned one Etec and now one four stroke, I am no expert, but at least I have actually owned both so here is my two cents worth.

I recently sold a Haines Hunter 600 Classic with 175 Etec. I owned the boat for close to 18 months. In that time I was constantly playing with props, engine height etc to try and get the Etec performing well enough. My average fuel consumption was about 0.6 Nm / litre running in mid 20 knot range with a decent load on board. In an average trip of around 150Nm, I would also use close to 4 litres of XD100. This made things pretty expensive in my opinion.

I eventually got sick of playing with the setup and came to the conclusion that the boat was just underpowered and no amount of repropping was going to solve that. I got a couple of quotes to repower to something in the 200 - 225 HP range and it was going to cost me at least $10K (closer to $16K for a 4 banger) which I was not willing to spend. So I sold the whole thing back in July.

I have just taken delivery of my new Fisher 600 Maxi with 175 Suzuki 4 stroke. Used it on its maiden voyage on Saturday. 5 average sized guys, 250 litres of fuel under floor, all fishing gear, 250 litres of esky space full of food, ice, drinks, bait (& fish on the way home). I got DOUBLE the fuel economy of the Etec for the same size boat. Yes the Fisher would be a bit lighter than the Haines, but it is running a big deadrise (23 degrees) and I had trim tabs dug in as we were punching a nasty little chop all the way out for 3 1/2 hours. I was easily averaging 1.2 Nm / litre all the way there and home running in mid 20s. So I did a total of about 160 Nm on half a tank of fuel. In a very brief water test before this I saw 1.6 Nm / litre with just me on board and nothing else.

I am absolutely stoked. So for an average trip I do, I saved hundreds of dollars on fuel and around $60 on XD100.

Hope this helps.

Chris

No matter what you do to an E-tec,, if it is underpowered for the boat it is on, then it is going to chew the fuel...
The Fisher would be heaps lighter then your HH classic... Regardless off your trim tabs, 2deg extra dead rise, your Suzuki is not working as hard, hence why your fuel figures are so much better...

I have been out in a HH 6m Classic a few times with a Yamaha 200,,, Milage is around 1.1km/lt (open water) and 1.5km on flat water...

Out of the HH range, the 600 Classic I like the least... I don't know what it is about ths boat, but they tend to bang a fare bit and they sound very hollow... Comparred to the 585r and 600r, the classic does not work anywhere near as well...

I spent Sunday in a 680 Patriot / 250 Yamaha... Cruising home following the swell we were getting 1.3km/ltr.... Heading out in a steep northerly swell .9-1.0km/ltr... Pritty good numbers for a big boat....

[Jabba_]

G'Day

No wonder you sold the rig, those etec numbers are woefull, but seem to be about the norm for those motors in that size.

The numbers on the 175 Zuk are outstanding, very impressive.

200 Opti on the back of a 19C I average about 1.6km/l, have not seen a etec thread that comes close to that in these size motors. If I really behave myself can get it up around the 1.8 km/l.

Oil usage between 40~50:1 at cruise, jack at trolling speeds.
Troll @ 6.5knts uses about 6 litres/hr.

Regarding the original question, I would probably lean towards the 140 Zuk, do not think about a 150 because insurance will become void

Cheers

VS
Hey VS.. I have a 250 E-tec on a 19ft Seafarer Vermont.. At cruise I get 1.6 -1.7km/lt on flat water.. Open water 1.3km to 1.6km/lt.. Oil ratio at cruise is 80:1

I troll at 8kn (1750rpm) I use 9-10lt/hr.... 6kn (1450rpm) I'm using 4-5lt/hr

All the data is from the NMEA and distance and speed is GPS...

[davo]

Yammy 4stroke. I can smell Etec's. Also a bloke at work had 3 out of 4 injector failures. They were replaced underwarranty but when he asked the usual cost he found that one injector was over $800. I also find them noisier than the 4 stroke. Everyone talks service price but I don't find them expensive. We have four 4 strokes in my my family and no issues. The one brother in law has both cousin's pro crabbing with Etec's and they have had their issues.

[Vitamin Sea]

Hey VS.. I have a 250 E-tec on a 19ft Seafarer Vermont.. At cruise I get 1.6 -1.7km/lt on flat water.. Open water 1.3km to 1.6km/lt.. Oil ratio at cruise is 80:1

I troll at 8kn (1750rpm) I use 9-10lt/hr.... 6kn (1450rpm) I'm using 4-5lt/hr

All the data is from the NMEA and distance and speed is GPS...


G'Day Jab

Point taken but we are looking at 2 very different scenariors here, 175 on a HH classic would certainley not be underpowered, would think it's about right, doubt that the rig would weigh as much as mine.
The 250 on the Seafarer would be I imagine max hp, so of course you are doing it easy hence the pretty good figures you are pulling.
How would yours go with a 175 etec...............(normal:P) motor for that sized boat, that's the question.

Not interested in a bagging session, just facts are facts.;)

Cheers

Bill

[Jabba_]

G'Day Jab

Point taken but we are looking at 2 very different scenariors here, 175 on a HH classic would certainley not be underpowered, would think it's about right, doubt that the rig would weigh as much as mine.
The 250 on the Seafarer would be I imagine max hp, so of course you are doing it easy hence the pretty good figures you are pulling.
How would yours go with a 175 etec...............(normal:P) motor for that sized boat, that's the question.

Not interested in a bagging session, just facts are facts.;)

Cheers

Bill
I'm not sure... Lindsay Fry told me the 200 small block was real efficient on my Hull, so I guess the 175 might be OK, but it would be way to slow for me.. But my personal feeling is the 175 E-tec would be thirsty on a 6mt Seafarer...

I only made reference to my figure because I thought you were saying you had not seen and good E-tec figure in the 200hp range that was similar to your rig..

Skusto has I 150 E-tec on a 580 BC and is matching the 150 Suzuki's for economy and he is getting a few extra mph flat out... That's the sort off result you should get from the E-tec if you have it powered correctly... Similar economy and a few extra MPH...

But underpower them and there a disaster... Outside skipper found out first hand how bad the E-tec can be if there underpowered,, mate they will drink more then a fish..

On a 600 classic I would not run anything smaller then a 200hp in the E-tec range....

[lee8sec]

Jabba_ isnt the vermont only rated to 225hp?

Any one know on the 5 year warranty question i asked above? Leigh

[Jabba_]

Jabba_ isnt the vermont only rated to 225hp?

Any one know on the 5 year warranty question i asked above? Leigh

Mine was uprated to 250 from the factory. I don't know the answer to your other question