PDA

View Full Version : Dingoes force Fraser Island camp closures



manchild
22-12-2009, 05:39 PM
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,26518046-5003402,00.html

PinHead
22-12-2009, 06:46 PM
just shoot the aggressive dogs

yalta
22-12-2009, 08:40 PM
just shoot the aggressive dogs

were would you stop its just a matter of the next one taking thier spot.
they should of never shot out all the feral goats,pig's,horse's that were
once there.so now there best off just shooting the lot of them.
or they can put back some feral goat's.

smashed crabs
22-12-2009, 09:05 PM
Are they Dingo's or Hybrids , if thet are Hybrids they should shoot the lot, get some pure strain dingo's and start again.

Crestcutter
22-12-2009, 09:26 PM
were would you stop its just a matter of the next one taking thier spot.
they should of never shot out all the feral goats,pig's,horse's that were
once there.so now there best off just shooting the lot of them.
or they can put back some feral goat's.

Dude you cant be serious wanting Goats put back on fraser?::)
I'm hoping you were being sarcastic.
I see it like this, you want too jump out of a plane you know there is a chance you can die. You go swimming at dawn or dusk you may be bitten by a shark.

You walk on the beach at Fraser and you might have a dingo up your arse.
Where i am right out to St George at the moment there are dingoes hanging off road signs. Do i agree with killing them , course i bloody do, do i agree with hanging them for everyone to see well of course not.

Kill them all on Fraser, it's not going to effect the feral population by wiping them out on Fraser Island.

tigermullet
22-12-2009, 10:14 PM
I cannot understand the level of hysteria displayed by authorities whenever they think a dingo on Fraser Island is a threat.

The ones I've seen up there are pretty small. Even in a pack you have only a bunch of little doggies - it's not like they're a pack of bloody jawed timber wolves hunting down any poor human who stumbles across their path. Slavering wolves are also just a myth.

Years ago we would sleep on the beach with just a blanket as cover at the Coloured sands and wake up with dingo prints all around us. Other than noting the presence of tracks I cannot remember anyone finding it frightening or even remarkable.

Crestcutter
22-12-2009, 10:24 PM
You got it it Tigermullet , the dingoes on Fraser are like whippets compared to out here. The other day one of the property owners shot 2 of them that were into his sheep and mate they were big and probably the same size as a German Sheppard.

I would be more worried about some young bloke in suburbia with a pitbull tryin to be all tuff and treating the dog like shite to toughen him up. Absolutely more dangerous.

And no i wasn't havin a go at pitty's for the pitbull lovers. Just using them as an example.

smashed crabs
22-12-2009, 11:41 PM
Here's a couple of photo's of a real dingo and a Hybrid, both from the Victorian Desert, the crappy looking one is the Hybrid.

tigermullet
23-12-2009, 08:10 AM
You got it it Tigermullet , the dingoes on Fraser are like whippets compared to out here. The other day one of the property owners shot 2 of them that were into his sheep and mate they were big and probably the same size as a German Sheppard.

I would be more worried about some young bloke in suburbia with a pitbull tryin to be all tuff and treating the dog like shite to toughen him up. Absolutely more dangerous.

And no i wasn't havin a go at pitty's for the pitbull lovers. Just using them as an example.

And I can just imagine the reaction from people in the west if the authorities decided that farmers and town folk should be forced to evacuate because one or two dingoes were on the prowl in the area.

I don't know what we're breeding in the cities or what is coming in as tourists.

Whimps??

bungie
23-12-2009, 10:00 AM
The ones on Fraser are the last of the pure Dingos

shano
23-12-2009, 06:54 PM
i say shoot them! was at fraser a few years ago fishing on the beach , there was a pack watching me over the dunes that i never knew about! i had caught a few fish by this stage and kept the bait and fish in the car like ya should! but they had been watching and learning that when i catch one i walk back up to the car! well this time i had reeled in one and started my walk to the car when the pack came charging down! i sh!t myself and thought what to do! was lucy there was a car coming up the beach ans saw this happen and swerved at them and sounded the horn! didn't wet another line there! bugga that!

TheRealAndy
23-12-2009, 08:55 PM
what did the dingoes eat before there were horses and goats?

Derek Bullock
23-12-2009, 09:03 PM
what did the dingoes eat before there were horses and goats?

Good question you have posed there Andy.

They ate native animals, roots, fruits and berries and carrion washed up on the beach. That is all still there.

However, we humans have changed their eating habits by offering easy meals and they no longer hunt and forage as they used to.

Derek Bullock
23-12-2009, 09:04 PM
Were there ever goats on Fraser Island? This is the first I have ever heard of it.

loophole
23-12-2009, 09:56 PM
Good question you have posed there Andy.

They ate native animals, roots, fruits and berries and carrion washed up on the beach. That is all still there.

However, we humans have changed their eating habits by offering easy meals and they no longer hunt and forage as they used to.


I belive they still forage threw our campsites.....

Goats ?? never herd of that one before.

all the brumbies are now gone>:( used to like seeing them come past the campsites

SeekingBarradise
23-12-2009, 11:00 PM
Hi fella's Merry Xmas & Happy New Year.

The last thing i want is an arguement before Xmas but i will add a few things our family has experienced regarding dingoes. That is actually experienced, e.g. seen with our own eyes on cattle stations in the NT and on Fraser etc.

On one cattle station up in the NT they had no baiting program and that station was not run very well for a period of time. The dingoes formed big packs, not sure if they cross bred with the local dogs, but a lot were pure looking.

By the time we got there they had basically ripped down every calf on the station, which is a hell of a lot, as it was a big station. All you saw were cattle weighing a few hundred kg's and up.

The dingoes were having a go at them as well, hanging off the front and back of them, not a good sight to wake up to. So you can imagine as kids we were shit scared, we made sure we were never caught in those paddocks alone, or at night. The local aboriginals were very wary of them as well.

In the first baiting program we got 52 dingoes in one paddock. I guess in greater numbers they developed greater confidence and may have evolved a bit differently as they had no enemies and a unlimited food source.



As for Fraser Island, i was fishing there with my partner and i saw 2 dingoes run down a ridge and have a look at us fishing. They seemed to have no human fear. Our fishing gear was 20m away. The dogs ran back up the hill, so i kept an eye on them as growing up we learn't not to trust them, but respect their hunting skills.

I started walking back to our gear. The dingoes had double backed up around the hill and came around the back of us, i reckon they definately thought we had food and were going to check it out. I lost them up the hill a bit, but kept an eye on the thicker brush about 20m away and up the hill from our gear. Then one moved, ran down the hill and strutted away from us in a very cool way as if it didn't have a care in the world. I thought this was wierd behaviour as it wasn't acting like it wanted anything to do with our gear & headed off in the opposite direction.

I thought no way, they are not playing a 1-2 trick here or rope a dope. I reckon it was a distraction, for us to get into a false sense of security, walk away from our gear, then the other one could grab our food, if we had any.

I kept my eyes focused up the hill on the thicker brush, and bloody hell soon after i saw the other dingoe pop his head around the corner the bugger, it was sitting there keeping an eye on us. As we didn't move from our gear i reckon it took off.

Now this i wouldn't have believed if i wasn't there to see it, my wife was suprised as well. Crafty buggers, a lot of people would have fallen for that one, especially tourists or people that have never interacted with dingoes before.

Food for thought anyway, i definately wouldn't have kids anywhere near them or left alone around them, i've seen too many much bigger animals ripped down to ever forget those days. Frasers dingoes may not do this, but they do have a bad record with kids.

Adults with common sense and good parenting skills is a good start, but if a pack rushed you things do have the potential to get ugly, even if it's only a small risk. Their behaviour is different after human interaction and changes in the environment/food source etc.

Merry Xmas & Happy New Year
Cheers Lyndon.

b8nburlee
24-12-2009, 12:56 AM
im gob smacked at how many of you blokes want them shot. last of the pure dingos, here for many 1000's of years before us, more native than us, kill 'em all, just so you can go camping and fishing?. if they offered you some "sport" you'd probably be wanting more of them. if it was fish you'd want to fish them everywhere including in the green zones, even if they were protected and in danger of extinction, just so your "way of life" wasnt taken away from you. theres a much bigger more important world out there than just for our/your enjoyment,
you dont go camping out in africa somewhere where you know there are wild animals that possibly would kill and eat you, you dont go camping down near waterholes in horth qld, for fear of crocs, would you completely wipe them out also? just so you could camp there? some would answer yes, but why, when its part of australia,its part of what makes this place great, most of us are proud of this country, and love it for what it is, i do. im not looking to argue here, some of you will,but i just dont understand some people's attitudes.

PinHead
24-12-2009, 01:44 AM
I don't see anyone saying anything about killing all of them...only the aggressive ones. How many kids have been killed or injured from dingo attacks there? I bet your tune would be different if it was one of yours. These problems have come about from human interaction with these animals..they hold little fear of humans now. We have culled many animals in this country for various reasons: roos, dingoes, crocs, pigs, goats, camels, foxes, rabbits etc etc.
It is nothing new to cull for this reason.
I have had Rottweilers or Rhodesian Ridgebacks at various times over the past 30 years..my kids have grown up with them and the grandkids also..but if at any time any of my dogs were to bite someone I would be the first person to put a bullet in them..there is no room for animals like these that endanger human health.

TheRealAndy
24-12-2009, 08:14 AM
How about you shoot the locals and the backpackers that feed them?

b8nburlee
24-12-2009, 12:38 PM
pinhead, yeah mate my opening line was inaccurate, after reading the posts again all i could find was,one quote,"kill them ALL on fraser......", nothing more. ive just read and taken this to be the attitude here, that damn jerky knee of mine.
but, to be totaslly honest with you, my tune probably wouldnt be different. IF i had kids and I took them to a location that is quite well known for some sort of "animal attack" or atleast presence, without taking adequate precaution or provivding constant supervision, then i think i'd be the one who needs shooting. its not the animals fault. they're just trying to survive. now im not saying anyone here is a bad parent etc. but if you dont, wont or cant take these precautions then should you take kids there???. you wouldnt let you kids wander around carefree in a wildlife park in africa. why? because of possible attack. its really no different here in aus, is it?
i can fully understand the culling that goes on here, kangaroos, rabbits,foxes etc, in australia, its necessary, and im all for culling introduced species, and the roos that are here in plague proportions, in general, i just dont like blatant killing of any animal thats not necessary or justified and i dont believe killing all the dingos on fraser is. the dingo responsible for an attack...yes.
yes i fish, and if im lucky to have a feed also, then thats a bonus, but im happy to release as well. i even released a pike eel that drew blood from a bite the other night. my mate said "did you kill it?"..... its only doing what instinct lead it to do, the bastard got me back i spose for renching it out of its enviroment, good on it i say. no hard feelings. steve.

Crestcutter
24-12-2009, 03:37 PM
Steve i am the one that said kill them all, lets not beat around the bush here. However each to there own and if the government cant control these dogs then they should be shot or relocated it's as simple as that. However, i live in the bush , i kill vermin , dingo's also get shot out here hence my so called lack of feelings for them as they are a destructive dog.

Dangerous as well, especialy if you shoot anywhere out near Killarney at dusk you will have them chase you back too your ute and they are 4 times the size of the " real dingo's" on Fraser. In saying all that they bait dingo's everywhere in Australia and know one has mentioned that? Or dont those dingo's in the outback count or is it just the Queensland coast that matters.

Hope i dont sound like i am having a go but when you live with these bastards of dogs it's just something else to destroy natural widlife and are no better than feral cats , pigs and rabbits.

FNQCairns
24-12-2009, 04:36 PM
Are they Dingo's or Hybrids , if thet are Hybrids they should shoot the lot, get some pure strain dingo's and start again.

They are hybrids and I think quite very by a standard we would judge a domestic pure breed - but near the best we have, how long is a piece of string, certainly shoot the aggressive ones as it cannot matter except for in our minds.

There is an interesting link in this thread

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=137044&highlight=dingo+pure

cheers fnq

Far side
24-12-2009, 06:01 PM
Shoot a few keep doing it for a while no need to Genocide the species but a regular shooting program makes them afraid of humans and saves their lives. Its the same with any animal.
Removing humans from the areas is crap its our national park and we should be able to use it safely with out fear of our children being attacked.

hodges4
27-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Strange how dingoes are shot on sight elsewhere in Australia. After all the're only a wild dog from Borneo or thereabouts. There's nothing 'native' about them except that they've been here for a while. Nothing rare about them either, there's probably tens of thousands elsewhere in the world. They are probably responsible for the wiping out of hundreds of native animal and bird species. We only want to protect them on Fraser because there's money being made out of tourism or they look like a domestic dog.

Wild pigs have been here for quite a while too, couple of hundred years. Don't see anyone trying to protect them.

Lets face it, these dingoes look upon our young kids playing on the beach at Fraser as food.

Get rid of them and release some proper Australian animals on the island for the tourists. There's no native animals that I know of that are dangerous to humans.

Thats my bit anyway.

John

Jonno Lucas
27-12-2009, 07:18 PM
G'day John (Hodges4),

No native animals that you know of that are dangerous to humans? Saltwater Crocodiles, Cassowary's, about 25 species of snakes, Funnelweb Spiders, Blue Ringed Octopus, Box Jellyfish, a few species of sharks...there's plenty that's dangerous to us...

Dingoes were introduced about 5000 years ago to Australia, but they would have had a negligible effect on the native animals as they just took over where the Tasmanian Tiger and Tasmanian Devel left off (dingoes dominated those two species). The main threats to Australian native wildlife are altered fire regimes and habitat degradation/destruction.

I'm in two minds with regards to how to deal with them - is 5000 years long enough to classify them as native? A lot of people I respect seem to think so, and a few think not. The fact that the majority are tainted, and that they are common overseas makes me say eradicate them, but not out of respect of human safety.

gr hilly
27-12-2009, 08:05 PM
its only the public that cause these dogs to hang around people now days, 35 yrs back there were plenty of them on the island if you lock up your tucker they were no problem ,stupid people feeding these dogs are making them naughty for many years 25 that i know of there are signs that say (dont feed the dingoes) but no and we have to shoot some because of some drongoes dont read ill camp anywhere on the island and they wont bother me they are the purest dingoes in australia the problem is greenhorns not reading signs or doing the right thing
hilly

hodges4
28-12-2009, 05:36 AM
G'day Jonno
Your right, I was thinking about native animals that look upon humans as food and forgot about our beloved, rare and exclusive Australian crocodiles. I really have difficulty understanding how such a dangerous animal is allowed to breed up and spread seemingly unchecked.

It seems like both these predators are given some special right of passage as when they are seen it is us who must move out of their way.

All for the sake of the tourist dollar, too bad about human life.

But seriously, how can any parent with young children really enjoy a Fraser island holiday while constantly looking over their shoulder to see if some wild dog is stalking them or their kids.

At least cull them to make them terrified of people and then a sighting will be a special thing rather than common.

Magilla
28-12-2009, 07:33 AM
Seems there's a lot of wringing-of-hands over the temporary closure of a couple of camping sites.

Those who don't think FI dingoes are potentially a threat, particularly to children, are just plain wrong. Because of their lack of height & size, children will always be viewed as prey by the dingoes there.

A lot of people camping still don't get it and will continue to be ignorant no matter how much education is attempted by the rangers. Afterall, they're only little doggies ....

Aerial feeding has been mooted to try and disassociate the people = food thinking of the dingoes ( plus maintain their numbers in hard times ). Can't see that working too well, as long as kids still wander around by themselves unaccompanied by their ignorant parents.

You can't totally modify the dingoes behaviour and you can't totally control behaviour of parents. Either ban kids from going to Fraser Island or, at least, make it manditory that, if you're taking kids, you have to camp in one of the fenced-off sites.

PADDLES
28-12-2009, 09:05 AM
i reckon make them scared of people again. if that means shooting the ones that aren't scared then so be it. whilst we have a responsibility to the environment, humans are the master race on this planet and if we are being threatened by a rogue? animal then it must be eliminated.

to those that don't advocate culling (and i do respect your opinion on this) i pose this hypothetical question ..................... where you live right now, if a pack of wild dogs (that's what dingos are) showed up in your neighbourhood and started threatening the children (i've deliberately left pets and livestock out of this hypothetical because they are not allowed on fraser) would you want to live with them or would you want them culled? think carefully and answer honestly ...................

Magilla
28-12-2009, 10:53 AM
But seriously, how can any parent with young children really enjoy a Fraser island holiday while constantly looking over their shoulder to see if some wild dog is stalking them or their kids.

Then they really should reconsider their holiday destination. There's plenty of alternatives.


At least cull them to make them terrified of people

Only makes them wary of rangers who constantly haze them with slingshots.


and then a sighting will be a special thing rather than common.

Common-as-muck at Coollooloi Creek. The pack there sit on the track waiting for their next meal to come along. Walking with the dingoes along the beach is a feature of some of the tourist operators. How do the operators make the dingoes do that?

Crestcutter
28-12-2009, 05:34 PM
Rangers using slingshots? What a joke . I do not know about sling shots but if you want to put the fear up any ferals, on anyones property, you will find you get one day shooting then they are that spooked they wont come back for weeks.
Dingoes are not different. If they are that precious to everyone including tourism they should be doing something about it. Rather than sooking after someone has been mauled.

Lucky_Phill
28-12-2009, 08:39 PM
Not too sure about the comments made in relation to Fraser Island dingoes being ' purest in australia '.

The barge operator has sighted many a dingo swimming between Inskip Point and Fraser over the years.

LP.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Jonno Lucas
29-12-2009, 01:01 PM
G'day Jonno
Your right, I was thinking about native animals that look upon humans as food and forgot about our beloved, rare and exclusive Australian crocodiles. I really have difficulty understanding how such a dangerous animal is allowed to breed up and spread seemingly unchecked.

It seems like both these predators are given some special right of passage as when they are seen it is us who must move out of their way.

All for the sake of the tourist dollar, too bad about human life.

But seriously, how can any parent with young children really enjoy a Fraser island holiday while constantly looking over their shoulder to see if some wild dog is stalking them or their kids.

At least cull them to make them terrified of people and then a sighting will be a special thing rather than common.

G'day hodges,

Crocodiles haven't been allowed to "breed up". They are simply establishing themselves back to their original numbers.

I am confused as to why you think we shouldn't have to move out of their way when they are seen? It is their country, their home...we have already destroyed and colonised much of their habitat, what makes us so special?

If people aren't willing to tolerate the small risk of dingo attack at Fraser, there's plenty of dingo free areas to go. Noosa is just across the road - but you'd better watch out, there's those man-eating stingrays there!

PinHead
29-12-2009, 02:07 PM
G'day hodges,

Crocodiles haven't been allowed to "breed up". They are simply establishing themselves back to their original numbers.

I am confused as to why you think we shouldn't have to move out of their way when they are seen? It is their country, their home...we have already destroyed and colonised much of their habitat, what makes us so special?

If people aren't willing to tolerate the small risk of dingo attack at Fraser, there's plenty of dingo free areas to go. Noosa is just across the road - but you'd better watch out, there's those man-eating stingrays there!

It is also my country and my home ..if any animal harms my grandkids (kids are adult and able to look after themselves) I guarantee it will be dead..and to hell with whatever consequences arise from that action. Human life is sacrosanct.
Fraser Island is touted by the Govt as one of the best toursit destinations in the State, therefore they have an obligation to make it as safe as possible for the tourists. Tell the parents of the kids that have been attacked that they should not have gone to the island...and we all know it is impossible to watch kids every minute of the day..the lil critters move in an inkling.

Why is there so much angst about culling animals that become dangerous. All this talk about the dingoes on Fraser being the purest. IMO, they would now have the most diulted gene pool and that is not a good thing...only weakens the breed.

Jonno Lucas
29-12-2009, 02:23 PM
It is also my country and my home ..if any animal harms my grandkids (kids are adult and able to look after themselves) I guarantee it will be dead..and to hell with whatever consequences arise from that action. Human life is sacrosanct.
Fraser Island is touted by the Govt as one of the best toursit destinations in the State, therefore they have an obligation to make it as safe as possible for the tourists. Tell the parents of the kids that have been attacked that they should not have gone to the island...and we all know it is impossible to watch kids every minute of the day..the lil critters move in an inkling.

Why is there so much angst about culling animals that become dangerous. All this talk about the dingoes on Fraser being the purest. IMO, they would now have the most diulted gene pool and that is not a good thing...only weakens the breed.

Why should an animal have to die just because it poses some kind of risk? More people die from horses each year than snakes, crocs and dingos combined - should we kill all of them too? Where do you draw the line? And what purpose does killing an animal serve AFTER it's hurt someone? That's as ignorant as the redneck calls to kill a croc/shark after someone gets chomped, despite the fact that they were in the animals territory and knew the risks.

For your information, and it's totally irrelevant anyway, but hybridising species generally results in stronger specimens.

New Zealand is just over the ditch - no crocs, no snakes and plenty of fish!

GBC
29-12-2009, 03:48 PM
How about you shoot the locals and the backpackers that feed them?

Couldn't agree more, definitely a good start


Shoot a few keep doing it for a while no need to Genocide the species but a regular shooting program makes them afraid of humans and saves their lives. Its the same with any animal.
Removing humans from the areas is crap its our national park and we should be able to use it safely with out fear of our children being attacked.



its only the public that cause these dogs to hang around people now days, 35 yrs back there were plenty of them on the island if you lock up your tucker they were no problem ,stupid people feeding these dogs are making them naughty for many years 25 that i know of there are signs that say (dont feed the dingoes) but no and we have to shoot some because of some drongoes dont read ill camp anywhere on the island and they wont bother me they are the purest dingoes in australia the problem is greenhorns not reading signs or doing the right thing
hilly

The bottom line is that the animals are starving, and I'd guess it'd take a WHOLE lot of shooting to scare off a starving animal permanently.
They had lived in conjunction with the aboriginals on the island until they (the aboriginals) were mostly shot out.
Dingos on the island have always partly relied on man for food via scavenging. When forestry/mining ran the place they foraged the open dumps and as others have said - dined on brumbies which had a very short lifespan and a high mortality rate due to sand cholic.
Parks have stopped fishermen leaving out frames, locked the bins, closed the dumps, shot the brumbies, poisoned the pigs (yes there are pigs there) and outlawed human interaction (whether cognitive or not) with the animals, all within a few generations of dog. They are obviously not coping with the change.
As a kid we used to see dingos 'fishing' in surf gutters and the Western creeks which they now can't do either due to the huge influx of tourists.

It is a bigger picture than just people feeding them - though it is an utterly stupid thing to do if you care about the long term survival of them.

I've got no answers because I like them there and would miss them if they ceased to exist. However I think that the population has always been artificially supported, and to simply remove their food source was cruel to the animals, and the outcome which we have all seen was always going to be the same. Children have been killed by starving animals who have been forced into that situation by a pathetic government management policy.

PinHead
29-12-2009, 04:58 PM
Why should an animal have to die just because it poses some kind of risk? More people die from horses each year than snakes, crocs and dingos combined - should we kill all of them too? Where do you draw the line? And what purpose does killing an animal serve AFTER it's hurt someone? That's as ignorant as the redneck calls to kill a croc/shark after someone gets chomped, despite the fact that they were in the animals territory and knew the risks.

For your information, and it's totally irrelevant anyway, but hybridising species generally results in stronger specimens.

New Zealand is just over the ditch - no crocs, no snakes and plenty of fish!

If you hybridise (is that a word??) then they are no longer pure dingoes..they are just cross breed mongrels..so what is the purpose in that ? Just creating a possibly more dangerous breed of animal.

So if you have kids and one of them is attacked by one of these dogs you will just pat the dog and tell it to go away..yeah right.

Why the dramas over culling some dogs on Fraser..it is done every day on the mainland tp lessen the stock losses...poisons, traps and shooting..what is the difference?

PinHead
29-12-2009, 04:59 PM
GBC..I don't think anyone wants them wiped out but some culling may be necessary then the natural food source may be there for them.

hodges4
29-12-2009, 05:13 PM
And start the culling sooner rather than later while any natural food source may be able to keep up with demand. Problem is the easiest food source is from humans feeding the nice doggies and they wont go back to their natural prey while the easy feed is there. I don't blame them.

Maybe trapping and desexing may be an altenative to culling. It would reduce the numbers long term but would be costly.

Jonno Lucas
29-12-2009, 05:35 PM
If you hybridise (is that a word??) then they are no longer pure dingoes..they are just cross breed mongrels..so what is the purpose in that ? Just creating a possibly more dangerous breed of animal.

So if you have kids and one of them is attacked by one of these dogs you will just pat the dog and tell it to go away..yeah right.

Why the dramas over culling some dogs on Fraser..it is done every day on the mainland tp lessen the stock losses...poisons, traps and shooting..what is the difference?

G'day mate,

Hence the reason I said it was totally irrelevant to this topic anyway :)

My position is that we are visitors to Australia - who are we to alter millions of years worth of evolution just to make us feel a little safer, or to save a bit of money? Rather than forcing Australia to adapt to us, we should adapt to it.

I am actively involved with feral pig, dog and cat control with my business. My discussion hasn't been solely limited to dingos, but mainly people attitudes that "If it can hurt me or my kids, I'm gonna shoot it".

Cheers

GBC
29-12-2009, 05:42 PM
I just see the end of the Fraser dingos isn't too far off I suppose - just too hard to manage with policy.

I've got no probs with culling:

a: if it is part of a well thought out end game to protect a wild population.

or

b: if the animal has been aggressive.

My wife and father were surrounded at Yankee Jack Ck a few years back by five dogs in a very well thought out process. I watched it happen in a matter of seconds as they materialised out of the scrub about 15 metres apart. Luckily for them the tender was at hand, but there was a few tense moments there. It has to be seen to be believed.

PinHead
29-12-2009, 06:49 PM
G'day mate,

Hence the reason I said it was totally irrelevant to this topic anyway :)

My position is that we are visitors to Australia - who are we to alter millions of years worth of evolution just to make us feel a little safer, or to save a bit of money? Rather than forcing Australia to adapt to us, we should adapt to it.

I am actively involved with feral pig, dog and cat control with my business. My discussion hasn't been solely limited to dingos, but mainly people attitudes that "If it can hurt me or my kids, I'm gonna shoot it".

Cheers

sorry..I am not a visitor..I am resident.

My attitude still remains..if it hurts my family I will kill it..I make no apologies for that. I have said previously..if one of my dogs ever harmed anyone I would be the first to shoot it.

I cannot follow your reasoning...we should adapt to the country instead of making the country adapt to us. By that reasoning we would have no irrigation..no dams for same..and those items have assisted the native animals survival to no end...as well as the introduced pests.

GBC is on the money..culling to sustain is the way to go..same as the roo population...there would not be as many of them or pigs or any other wild animal without the improvements mad has made to the countryside.

I wonder where would the dingoes on Fraser be without the food sources they seek from humans. Would there be enough food on Fraser to sustain them or would they have died out ?

Jonno Lucas
29-12-2009, 10:05 PM
sorry..I am not a visitor..I am resident.

My attitude still remains..if it hurts my family I will kill it..I make no apologies for that. I have said previously..if one of my dogs ever harmed anyone I would be the first to shoot it.

I cannot follow your reasoning...we should adapt to the country instead of making the country adapt to us. By that reasoning we would have no irrigation..no dams for same..and those items have assisted the native animals survival to no end...as well as the introduced pests.

GBC is on the money..culling to sustain is the way to go..same as the roo population...there would not be as many of them or pigs or any other wild animal without the improvements mad has made to the countryside.

I wonder where would the dingoes on Fraser be without the food sources they seek from humans. Would there be enough food on Fraser to sustain them or would they have died out ?

G'day mate,

You still haven't answered my question; Why kill something that has hurt you because you were in its domain? Most people who cop a love bite from a croc or a shark share two things in common - they were in the animals domain AND they don't want the animal killed. For your information, my best mate was killed by a "dangerous" native animal about 5 years ago, and the first thing we did was make sure they didn't kill it as it was his mistake, not the animals.

You're on the money with regards to irrigation and dams - a lot of them have a massive environmental impact...the amount of water taken out of the Murray Darling system has caused it to run backwards! You say that dams and irrigation have assisted native animals no end...do you have any proof of that? They were doing pretty good before we got here without any help...

Culling to sustain - do you have any proof of that working? By all means have an opinion, but at least have an educated one...you mention pigs as "wild animals" in the same breath as kangaroo's. Pigs are a hugely detrimental feral species and kangaroo's are a native species that a lot of people think are in "plague proportions". Facts are kangaroo's used to roam in packs of 10,000+ but these days a colony of 100 is a rare site.

There are plenty of food items available for the dingoes on Fraser. Freshwater turtles, various species of large lizards, many species of mammals, fish, birds etc. They cohabited with the aboriginals but were definitely not dependent on them.

PinHead
29-12-2009, 10:24 PM
G'day mate,

You still haven't answered my question; Why kill something that has hurt you because you were in its domain? Most people who cop a love bite from a croc or a shark share two things in common - they were in the animals domain AND they don't want the animal killed. For your information, my best mate was killed by a "dangerous" native animal about 5 years ago, and the first thing we did was make sure they didn't kill it as it was his mistake, not the animals.

You're on the money with regards to irrigation and dams - a lot of them have a massive environmental impact...the amount of water taken out of the Murray Darling system has caused it to run backwards! You say that dams and irrigation have assisted native animals no end...do you have any proof of that? They were doing pretty good before we got here without any help...

Culling to sustain - do you have any proof of that working? By all means have an opinion, but at least have an educated one...you mention pigs as "wild animals" in the same breath as kangaroo's. Pigs are a hugely detrimental feral species and kangaroo's are a native species that a lot of people think are in "plague proportions". Facts are kangaroo's used to roam in packs of 10,000+ but these days a colony of 100 is a rare site.

There are plenty of food items available for the dingoes on Fraser. Freshwater turtles, various species of large lizards, many species of mammals, fish, birds etc. They cohabited with the aboriginals but were definitely not dependent on them.

not even worth answering that...some common sense will give you the answer.

smashed crabs
29-12-2009, 10:56 PM
Why should an animal have to die just because it poses some kind of risk? More people die from horses each year than snakes, crocs and dingos combined - should we kill all of them too? Where do you draw the line? And what purpose does killing an animal serve AFTER it's hurt someone? That's as ignorant as the redneck calls to kill a croc/shark after someone gets chomped, despite the fact that they were in the animals territory and knew the risks.

For your information, and it's totally irrelevant anyway, but hybridising species generally results in stronger specimens.

New Zealand is just over the ditch - no crocs, no snakes and plenty of fish!

because its the law of the jungle, if an animal attacks and hurts or kills another it will not stop, what you are saying is rubbish.

animal behavior is something you know nothing about.

I have a question for you , What do we do with humans who hurt or kill another?.

I will jump in here and say we lock them up and for a good reason...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
To everyone else......

Once a dingo has a little snack on someone he knows the fear is on the other foot and will continue to do what he has learnt and i hear a why? this is because he now knows who the boss is.

Once dingos have lost the fear of humans they have the upper hand and will push the envolope further and further.The only way to deal with it is too scare the crap out of them, regular shooting is one such a way of bringing back the fear factor.Once a couple of their mates get dropped they soon start to learn that man with straight shiny boom stick means not good and might make me sick.

Another option would be to catch offending dingo's and put them on a good behavior bond, if they break the good behavior bond they will have to go to dingo rehab, at rehab they will get slapped on the bottom, naughty little dingo, and be taught to sit, good boy.

If persons dont want them to be shot how about using the armed forces to pepper them with rubber bullets, those pesky dingo's will think twice before ever walking up to a person anymore.

I actually like the idea of using the slingshots, give everyone that stays on frazer a slingshot , the kids will have a ball but the problem is after a week there wouldnt be a dingo in cooee of the place, the dingo's will be sitting deep in the cover shaking like a mexican chihuahua and to afraid to pee.

No one has mentioned using greenies as a weapon to deter dingo's , the idea is to send in 1000 greenies , they can run around trying to be one with the dingo's, after the dingo's have been subjected to sheer greenyish make love and not war songs for a week they will pack their bags and line up at the barge for safe passage back to the mainland and far away from the greenies as they possibly can get.Then the place will be over run by a far worse than dingo's, sorry not such a good idea after all but on second thoughts the kids running round with slingshots would love it.


Cheers

Crestcutter
30-12-2009, 02:13 AM
"Pigs are a hugely detrimental feral species and kangaroo's are a native species that a lot of people think are in "plague proportions". Facts are kangaroo's used to roam in packs of 10,000+ but these days a colony of 100 is a rare site."


You are obviously a pencil pusher who's idea of heading west is the Hogs breath Cafe. "A colony of 100 a rare site"? Seriously mate that statement you made right there tells me you know nothing of whats going on in the outback.

Enjoy your dingo's.

Jonno Lucas
30-12-2009, 04:56 AM
G'day crestcutter,

Here's a photo of me last month on Morney Station, about 100km west of Windorah. I go to the real west often - about half a dozen times a year. Does this give me some sort of credibility now?

Jonno Lucas
30-12-2009, 04:59 AM
not even worth answering that...some common sense will give you the answer.

Sorry mate, but I work pretty extensively with native animals on a professional front, so common sense has nothing on a bit of actual knowledge. There's only one thing more ignorant than a greenie, and that's an ignorant redneck. You don't need to subscribe (or lump me) into any little group - just educate yourself with facts...there's nothing to lose.

PinHead
30-12-2009, 05:06 AM
well then..how about the dams giving the wild animals water in times of drought..irrigation giving improved pastures and grain that they feed on..I thought someone that was a professional in this field and went west quite often would have worked that out by now.

Once again..labels..and all from someone that goes west a few times a year...seems more like an urban cowboy trying to be the bush expert.

I really don't give a rats what your expertise is..back to the original..shoot the bloody dingoes on fraser that are causing the problems..end of problem...simple solution.

Magilla
30-12-2009, 06:03 AM
The fact is that they do shoot those dingoes that pose a clear and present danger to the public.

How do they gather enough info to make that decision? Mainly from the public.

When a beach camper first arrives they pull-up and have a little talk about locking up food, etc, and to discourage them by hazing ( throwing rocks ). They explain that some dingoes are tagged. There's different colours of tags and left or right ear means male or female. After the talk they leave a pink ribbon to be tied to the tent for display so other rangers know that they've been done.

They'll occasionally pop around to ask of any dingo-human interfacing or the camper might go around to the ranger station to report something.

The above might only occur before school holidays as that's what happened when we were there.

So, they gather intelligence and then make a decision to act. In this instance it was to close down a few camping areas but they have shot aggressive dingoes, previously, which always has led to an outcry.

To me, it's a fairly sensible approach. I'd still prefer that kids weren't allowed on the island at all, though.

GBC
30-12-2009, 12:01 PM
I camp with my 2 and 4 year olds on the Island. I'm sure you've put a whole lot of thought into the idea of banning them, and someone in our nanny state parliament is probably doing a feasability study on it., but if you asked my 4 y.o. what he though he'd probably tell you to p!ss right off. Kids aren't the cause and they certainly aren't the issue here - dogs are.

Crestcutter
30-12-2009, 03:38 PM
Jonno, with all due respect i live out in the scrub mate, i see all sorts of weekend warriors that come out in there flash utes, as Pinhead said "urban cowboys". Ok you might head out with a few mates and have a shot but i still stand by what i said and that if you have not seen colony's of 100 plus roos your not lookin or in the wrong places mate.


My mate owns 20 000 acres near Westmar and at the moment between dingoes, pigs, and roos'the cattle dont stand a chance. The roo's are that thick on his property it is ute only shooting as you would get knocked off your bike by roo.s THousands of them mate.

And as for the bloke that said ban kids, ppffrrrtttttttttt. If one of the REAL dingoes went for my kids on that island i would not hesitate in putting a hammer between it's eyes. To me they are like grinners lol.

PADDLES
30-12-2009, 04:57 PM
isn't it actually human intervention that has led them to be in such large numbers on fraser? ie. their population levels relate directly with the amount of food available much like most native animals. whacking tourists that feed them behind the ear with a stick will only solve half the issue, their numbers are high and they need to be thinned out a bit.

i'm with pinhead and a few others here johnno, if it's a direct threat to my family then i'm ready to bite back, whilst we have to be environmentally responsible, we are also still the master species on the planet too, and as such threats need to be eliminated. it's not like our families are diving with great white sharks, we are just having a camp at the beach and we as humans in this modern age should be able to walk out for a piss in the night without being munched by a frikkin wild dog.

as an interesting side note, i saw some very old photos (a few years ago now) of guys fishing at fraser in the early twentieth century. one guy fishes with his mate behind him with the bang stick to protect him from the pigs!

Magilla
30-12-2009, 07:14 PM
I camp with my 2 and 4 year olds on the Island.

Enclosed campsites or open beach camping?


I'm sure you've put a whole lot of thought into the idea of banning them, and someone in our nanny state parliament is probably doing a feasability study on it.,

Maybe. Kids being killed / mauled needs something to be done. We'll just have to see if the current management plan works. The way we'll see it doesn't work will be more deaths, I guess.


but if you asked my 4 y.o. what he though he'd probably tell you to p!ss right off.

You know there's a dingo danger to your 4 y.o. and I'm sure you take good care. It's the other parents that just can't understand the threat of those cute little doggies. If they have their kids attacked by dingoes then that's acceptable?


Kids aren't the cause and they certainly aren't the issue here - dogs are.

You are suddenly Australia's Benevolent Dictator :shocked: What would you do about the Fraser Island dingo situation?

Crestcutter
30-12-2009, 08:01 PM
I'd still prefer that kids weren't allowed on the island at all, though.

Maybe you should be picking that statement to bits rather than Picking GBC's Post. That would have to be the statement of the year mate ,and just makes you come over as some cranky old lonely ( edited )sorry lol.

Tangles
30-12-2009, 09:22 PM
Magilla,

a totally heartless, callous and uncaring post.. totally agree with GBC and Pinhead, .

Maybe. Kids being killed / mauled needs something to be done. We'll just have to see if the current management plan works. The way we'll see it doesn't work will be more deaths, I guess.

Mod11
31-12-2009, 09:59 AM
I take my kids to Fraser for many reasons and one being education.

I am also at the top of the species on the island and therefore I will do what I have to , to protect my family and provide a food source.

Yes, I care for the environment and camp, fish and travel responsibly.

Humans have been on this planet for a long time and therefore have equal rights, IMO, as any other animal and it is a ‘ eat or be eaten ‘ world. If a dog or any other sub-species harms my family or anyone else’s family in my presence it will be game over for them.

The duty of care regarding Dingoes on Fraser Island is shared between the Federal Government, State Government and Visitors to the island. As a parent you have the absolute duty of care for your offspring and with that care comes responsibility and retribution for any resulting issues.

I personally do not have an answer to the question raised, but I do know certain things.

Young children have been killed and injured by Dingoes on Fraser Island.

Every visitor to Fraser Island is made aware of the Dingo issue by tourist operators, EPA and barge operators, unfortunately, these warnings are not printed or spoken in all languages that visitors utilize. Hence troop carrier roll overs….. side issue and no need for comment.

By all means do not let the Dingo interfere with your holiday plans, simply be aware and prepared. Dingoes, mozzies, sandflies and people snoring in the next tent are all problems that can be dealt with, just different ways of dealing with them.

But I have no idea on how to deal with bikini clad backpackers bogged at Indian Head, so I simply look and ponder !!!! ;D 8-) ;D

Chilli.

PinHead
31-12-2009, 10:13 AM
I take my kids to Fraser for many reasons and one being education.

I am also at the top of the species on the island and therefore I will do what I have to , to protect my family and provide a food source.

Yes, I care for the environment and camp, fish and travel responsibly.

Humans have been on this planet for a long time and therefore have equal rights, IMO, as any other animal and it is a ‘ eat or be eaten ‘ world. If a dog or any other sub-species harms my family or anyone else’s family in my presence it will be game over for them.

The duty of care regarding Dingoes on Fraser Island is shared between the Federal Government, State Government and Visitors to the island. As a parent you have the absolute duty of care for your offspring and with that care comes responsibility and retribution for any resulting issues.

I personally do not have an answer to the question raised, but I do know certain things.

Young children have been killed and injured by Dingoes on Fraser Island.

Every visitor to Fraser Island is made aware of the Dingo issue by tourist operators, EPA and barge operators, unfortunately, these warnings are not printed or spoken in all languages that visitors utilize. Hence troop carrier roll overs….. side issue and no need for comment.

By all means do not let the Dingo interfere with your holiday plans, simply be aware and prepared. Dingoes, mozzies, sandflies and people snoring in the next tent are all problems that can be dealt with, just different ways of dealing with them.

But I have no idea on how to deal with bikini clad backpackers bogged at Indian Head, so I simply look and ponder !!!! ;D 8-) ;D

Chilli.

That last line broke me up..classic. I just wonder how far the pondering goes ????

Just_chips
04-01-2010, 02:07 PM
I've been making the trek to Fraser for quite a few years now also, always with my kids on a family holiday. We had an issue with an over inquisitive dingo with our 2 year old one year. The dog snuck down beside the car whilst the boy was paddling in a shallow low tide gutter with the Mrs sitting not 10 feet away on the cars bull bar. She ended up seeing the dog stalking the baby when it crept from behind her and past the front of the car, for a split second the dingo ended up between her and the baby, not the best spot for the dog to be, as she went ballistic and the dingo near shat itself when she charged across to pick up the boy. All the while I was fishing a gutter about 60 - 70metres away and unaware of the commotion. I ended up turning and seeing her holding the little one with the dingo still loitering. For the entire time that this was going on their was atleast 3 troopies fulll of backpackers happily clicking away taking photos as this dog nearly had a taste of my young son. I envetually got back to the scene and chased the dog away only to have the backpackers start throwing sandwiches out of the car to get some better photos. I say shoot the tourists.

I have also witnessed locals at Eurong feeding dingoes from the back door of their house, as our house looked directly down and into the kitchen of this place. They had 3 dogs sitting at the back door every day and they fed them consistently, the dogs would also go inside and go through the rubbish bin. We reported this to the rangers at the time but in the week that we were there we did not see any body take any action. Shoot these pricks also.

The dingoes on the island aren't as "pure" as most believe. It is true that they are amongst the purest strain of dingo in Australia with the least interaction with domestic dogs. But dogs were kept by many of the timber loggers and sand miners on the island and bear in mind that they were still logging on Fraser up till the early 90's. It is just that since the island has been world heritage listed and received full national park status, rather than the previous state forest status, domestic dogs have been banned and they now claim that frasers dingoes have not interbred with domestic dogs.


Kev

castlemaine
04-01-2010, 07:13 PM
Sorry guys but I'm going to stand up for the dingoes.

My kids literally grew up on the island, from nappies to young women.
I've been camping on Fraser for over 20 years. Ask yourself why are dingoes attracted to kids.

Kids always have food on them from a crusket to a sandwich.

Dingoes learn quick, pick the small one with the food for easy taking.
I have a mate that locks his dog away cos he knows his dog will get jealous if my kids come near him.

Not much difference, watch your kids and don't feed the dingoes OR camp somewhere else.

Don't blame the dingoes!:)