PDA

View Full Version : Poor form from fisho's



Steeler
21-12-2009, 10:19 PM
Hi All

Just finished reading ( on ninemsn ) about the fella spear fishing and was attacked by a shark who asked some fisho's in there boat for help and all they offered to do was call up help on the radio.

Couldn't imagine it being any Ausfisher as i am sure any of us would have rendered as much help as possible.

Hope karma finds its way around to these people.

Merry Chrissy to all Ausfishers and there families.

Cheers

Steve

Damned67
21-12-2009, 11:23 PM
Just read the story myself.... Very, very poor form.
Even if the spearo's had done something earlier to piss off the fishos, it's still inexcusable.

Only thing I can think of, if anything, was that if the mates (as the report stated) had already bandaged up the wound, then the fisho's may not have seen how bad it really was?

I guess, I wasn't there, so am unable to form an informed opinion... but on face value, I agree, very poor form indeed.

Benno1
22-12-2009, 05:22 AM
i know of some fisho's that will be getting lumps of coal in their Chrissy sock this year...

Mrs Benno1
Sunny

PinHead
22-12-2009, 05:24 AM
hmmmm..I know what I would have done..his mates had already bandaged the wound. I am not trained in first aid therefore I would have radioed for help.
I think his mates are idiots..the report says he had a severed artery and needed a blood transfusion...time wasted in any boat getting him back to shore could have seen him bleed to death..on the radio and get a chopper with professionals on board would be a far safer way of dealing with incident.

sagair
22-12-2009, 06:17 AM
That is a good case for a name and shame with picture of the boat. Very callous especially at Christmas time. Goodwill to all men????

kokomo
22-12-2009, 08:30 AM
anyone got the link?

FNQCairns
22-12-2009, 08:43 AM
from memory they where 100nm out and the other boat was a charter boat.

Don't take any of this a gospel it's from my memory and early news reports.

I dunno if I would have done the run back with him either, it sounds like a job for a chopper.

cheers fnq

Crunchy
22-12-2009, 09:20 AM
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/fishermen-snubbed-shark-attack-victim-20091221-l9fp.html

sagair
22-12-2009, 09:23 AM
I think the best solution would be to head home in the fastest boat until met by the chopper provided it had the best area for the injured person to be winched off. It does not take long to bleed out when the adrenalin kicks in and it is dangerous when people go into shock with out a medic there. Most cases it is best not to remove the wetsuite but to bandage over it. Probably never hear all the story as to why.

Bear001
22-12-2009, 12:13 PM
omg.....what is wrong with people? Why would you NOT help?

seabug
22-12-2009, 12:35 PM
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,26514778-3102,00.html?from=public_rss

Wonder if they think it will never happen to them(needing help)

Regards
seabug

b8nburlee
22-12-2009, 12:39 PM
i cant believe this has happened, i saw the article and think they should charge these f***wits with something if they can find them.]. thats almost like leaving the scene of an accident,. totally irresponsible and not a great ammbassador for boaties and fisherman alike. pricks.

fishgutz
22-12-2009, 01:32 PM
thought i would copy and past this from the GLADSTONE OBSERVER newspaper
http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/story/2009/12/22/claim-crew-denied-shark-victim-help-surgery-on-att/
Posted by robbo from Gayndah, Queensland
22 December 2009 9:05 a.m. | Suggest removal » (http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/comments/flag/70653/) | Post reply » (http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/story/2009/12/22/claim-crew-denied-shark-victim-help-surgery-on-att/#addcomment)

I am wondering why the other side of the story has not been told. The fisherman that was supposed to have not helped actually radioed for help, organised the air sea rescue and did all that he could to help this boy. He thought that by moving him onto his boat he would have made injuries worse, and his boat may have been bigger but was not faster than the boat the spearfishermen were in. he was not a commercial fisherman, he was out fishing with his family and he did what he thought was the best for this boy. he was later thanked by air sea rescue. These spear fishermen were 44 nautical miles out to sea without a working radio. without the help of this fisherman this boy would have not made it to help as quickly as he did. did the spearfishermen log onto airsea rescue when the left the harbour? Why did they not have the correct equipment for a trip to sea? This fisherman has been kicked in the guts by someone who he helped to save their life. Why is it that people always look to blame others for their own stupidity. The facts need to be told not a one sided biast opinion of a very ungrateful and negligent person.

Scott nthQld
22-12-2009, 01:46 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with the quote supplied above.

This kid and his mates were 44 mile out without a working radio, they had obviously treated the bite as best they could with shirts (anyone heard of a first aid kit?) and as above, just because a boat is bigger DOES NOT mean it is faster.

They had a capable boat, and the skipper of the dive boat neglected his general safety obligation, in not having a radio, or first aid kit, yet the boat that does help, and DOES do the right thing, get branded as a prick, or as showing poor form or whatever anyone else has to say about them. They've done all they could and did the right thing, last time I check emergency services told you to stay put in the event on a serious injury so you would be easier to locate than a moving target. And moving the victim would have done more harm than good.

The proper way to react would be to immediatly treat the wound, then contact emergency services for help, keep the victim calm and STAY PUT so as to not stress the victim out and cause more damage than what was already there and make yourselves easier to locate when emergency services come looking. if anything it was these divers who did the wrong thing, not the only person who obviously knew what to do, that is, the person who is now copping all sorts of flack because the divers acted irresponsibly....my bet is they weren't very polite about it either.

efc
22-12-2009, 02:09 PM
whats the weather like up there guys

wankers

b8nburlee
22-12-2009, 02:38 PM
however the spearies possibly acted (probably panic for a start), y would you leave the guy there. get him in the faster boat and get motoring , report the destination on the way. if i had the faster boat there would be no question of getting him as close as possible to medical help, even if it was only a few minutes less, it could be the vital few minutes the poor guy needs to survive before bleeding out or dying from shock.
and yes im guilty of the knee jerk reaction to hearing only partial facts, but still its potentially someone's life were talking about here, act fast and act now.

Scott nthQld
22-12-2009, 03:47 PM
still doesn't change that the spearo's had no idea what to do in an event like this, they weren't even prepared for it, though the risk of shark attack is very low, what about the various sharp object they would have, spear guns for a start, knives, spare spear heads etc. The victim would have lost a lot less blood, had they had the proper first aid supplies, laid him down, kept him calm and elevated the limb, and stayed and waited for emergency services, the arguing and then subsequent bolt to heron island, being bashed about the boat would have done more harm than good, causing more blood loss and potentially more nerve and tissue damage.

People are always asking how much is your safety worth when it comes to epirbs, well what about a first aid cert and kit?? or even a a working radio.

TimiBoy
22-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Yep, I'm glad I held back and waited for the full story. I daresay the skipper of the fishing boat was pretty level headed, and wasn't about to make things worse. So the divers told the media their side, and thus we get a beat up.

God I hate the media.

Tim

kingtin
22-12-2009, 04:45 PM
At the risk of generalising about youth................it says it all really................it'll never happen to me and if it does..............let's find someone else to blame. Not knocking the guy or his mates per se, but isn't his reaction to the boat skipper not taking him on board, down to most youth not being able, or simply refusing to see the broader picture, with the media being just as bad in looking for a hype to any story they can get their hands on?

My first thoughts when the media reported on the boat (they said initially that it was a trawler) was how the feck could that travel faster than their own rig?

kev

krazyfisher
22-12-2009, 05:21 PM
I did not want to comment without both sides......
people are always quick to judge without all the facts.

dudeman
22-12-2009, 10:55 PM
I was out there that day at Skyes Reef.

The guys they asked for assistance were in a Cat with twin 225hp motors.

Heron Island is only a 30min run in a boat like that and a lot more stable for the injured guy.

Blood loss was the major concern.

Heron Island is also equiped with medical Staff, which had him stablised when the Resue Chopper arrived.

The wind that day was only 2 to 5 knots. Also there radio was working at the boat when we left.

Every Dog Has His Day, and one day this guy in the Cat may need there assistance, I wonder what action they will take! Assist When Assistance is Needed as a Duty of Care.

Marlin_Mike
23-12-2009, 05:54 AM
as usual there are 3 sides to the story......his.....theirs....and soemwhere in between the truth


Mike

boney-leg
23-12-2009, 06:00 PM
still doesn't change that the spearo's had no idea what to do in an event like this, they weren't even prepared for it, though the risk of shark attack is very low, what about the various sharp object they would have, spear guns for a start, knives, spare spear heads etc. The victim would have lost a lot less blood, had they had the proper first aid supplies, laid him down, kept him calm and elevated the limb, and stayed and waited for emergency services, the arguing and then subsequent bolt to heron island, being bashed about the boat would have done more harm than good, causing more blood loss and potentially more nerve and tissue damage.

People are always asking how much is your safety worth when it comes to epirbs, well what about a first aid cert and kit?? or even a a working radio.


Bit harsh Scott - considering your posting about the Townsville Breakwater incident.

FNQCairns
23-12-2009, 06:07 PM
So what boat and engine did the spearo's have? A helicopter at 140knots or a cat at 42kn but what about the spearo's boat?

cheers fnq

boney-leg
23-12-2009, 06:19 PM
A helecopter might do 140kn but it doesn't just launch straight away and where is it coming from? They would have got to Heron before it did plus Heron had facilities to better stabalise the patient.

FNQCairns
23-12-2009, 06:45 PM
Yeah you are right, it doesn't seem if there was a faster way to closest help except possibly the spearo's boat depending on ground swell.

Given the untrained nature of the average joe in these things me included sometimes the best call is best left to the trained individuals, I wonder what advice he received from the other end of the phone? I would guess if the skipper ignored advice given or proffered, then all good Samaritan legislation would go out the window.

We exist in the world our governement and authorities has chosen for us, not the one we might have chosen.

I wonder if he could have made the right decision in any case.

cheers fnq

Sea-Dog
24-12-2009, 01:40 AM
http://www.gladstoneobserver.com.au/story/2009/12/23/they-did-everything-they-could-fisherman/



A MAN on the boat alleged to have left a shark attack victim without assistance said they did everything they could to help the 19-year-old.
In a statement made to the Gladstone water police, the man said “they were sick to the stomachs with concern for the young man’s safety” and “believe they had done everything they could possibly do under the circumstances”.
He told police that one of the family members aboard the 30ft vessel caught sight of the smaller fishing vessel whose occupants were frantically screaming that there had been a shark attack.
The trio of spearfishers asked the skipper on the boat for help, which the man said was immediately provided.
The skipper asked if they had radioed for help and was told that the small fishing vessel’s radio was not in working order.
The spearfishers yelled at the skipper to take the shark attack victim aboard but under the circumstances the skipper thought that it would not be in John Pengelly’s best interests to transfer the heavily bleeding man from one vessel to another as it would cause him unnecessary trauma and potentially make his injuries worse.
The skipper notified the authorities and advised the men to head to Heron Island.
The skipper immediately radioed VMR Gladstone advising them that there had been a shark attack and an emergency helicopter and paramedics were needed on Heron Island.
The man said the skipper remained in contact with authorities until the shark attack victim reached Heron Island and word was received that a helicopter had arrived.
The man said his family, who were on the boat, were distraught to hear that Mr Pengelly had implied they did nothing to help.
He said they were “under a lot of stress and had replayed the situation over and over in their heads and still believe...they did everything they humanly could for a small family on a family fishing outfit”.
“I’m just absolutely distraught,” he told The Observer.
“My dad is a skipper and he is absolutely gut-wrenched that this could happen after everything we did to help.”

Bosunsmate
24-12-2009, 09:37 PM
I recently got turfed out of my boat breaking my arm on the way over the side, I was in the water for an hour waving & screaming (I'm an ex AJ so I have a loud voice) for help at boats that were passing within 100m of me, not one took any notice.....

I was hanging onto the transom 2 3/4 miles out from townsville harbour alongside the main channel with a bust arm, 3 rods in the holders with no lines out, no anchor out, motor out of the water & no one in the boat and not one passing boat bothered to look, it was only a last ditch burst of energy that allowed me to get my grab bag out of the rear locker and let an orange smoke off.

Thanks to the quick thinking of the people on the cruiser "Sanctuary" I am still here for Xmas.....

I have lost faith in the fishing/boating community after this, even after letting the flare off only one boat came to assist considering the carpark at the coast guard ramp was full and at least three or four boats passed me by while I was in the water.

This is the link to the story in the Townsville Bulletin.....
http://redirectingat.com/?id=42X129556&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.townsvillebulletin.com.au%2Fa rticle%2F2009%2F11%2F30%2F97211_news.html

My thing is that I had left the ramp just before 0700 and was in the water till about 0800, this at a time when the area was quite busy with rec fishers/boaties.

What is it coming to......I know if I see a boat with no visible life aboard and no anchor rope out or the motor out of the water I will definately go have a closer look, I would hope that fellow ausfishers would do the same.

Crestcutter
25-12-2009, 01:19 PM
Bosunsmate it happens in the South East as well mate, myself Brejen and Gawby, were coming back inside the Gold Coast Seaway one day heading back to the Grand jetty. I noticed what i thought was a vsheet being held up by an old bloke that owned what looked to be a listing smallish houseboat.

Long story short we got there and this old bloke, i would say in his 70's was trying to save his houseboat by holding it nose to sea as the waves were smashing it. We radioed VMR and stayed with him till they got there. That day i lost faith in fellow man, it really pissed me off as this old bloke must have been passed by 100's of boats before we got there.

Very upsetting ......

nigelr
26-12-2009, 06:01 AM
Guys this behaviour is despicable if not culpable, can't believe people can do this, what would they expect if they were in trouble?
Regarding the young spearo, apparently he was bitten on lower arm/hand, so difficulties in moving him to another boat may not have been too risky as far as increasing blood loss during the transfer is concerned? Honestly think you would have had to have been to accurately assess the situation though.
Bosunsmates' and Crestcutters' stories don't say much for present-day attitudes amongst some towards good samaritan or duty of care.
Cheers.

Laurie Schulz
26-12-2009, 10:46 AM
Yep,
I was there too, and I would not ask that Sharkcat for assistance even if my life depended on it after what I heard him say on radio that day, as I was also at Skyes Reef that day and even we offered assistance if required.

They left them go it alone to Heron Is and didn't even follow as back up, he painted a scene of a boat full of foreign people who did not speak english. Also made it sound like the injured guy would be dead in minutes as he was bitten all over and would die from blood loss.

Everyone can have an opinon, but what went on that day I will not forget as long as I live, and many others and I, will always remmember!

It is the sadest thing you will ever hear over a marine radio!

Laurie




I was out there that day at Skyes Reef.

The guys they asked for assistance were in a Cat with twin 225hp motors.

Heron Island is only a 30min run in a boat like that and a lot more stable for the injured guy.

Blood loss was the major concern.

Heron Island is also equiped with medical Staff, which had him stablised when the Resue Chopper arrived.

The wind that day was only 2 to 5 knots. Also there radio was working at the boat when we left.

Every Dog Has His Day, and one day this guy in the Cat may need there assistance, I wonder what action they will take! Assist When Assistance is Needed as a Duty of Care.

kokomo
27-12-2009, 09:52 AM
laurie.. can you kind of quote the radio conversation as best you remember it??

cheers

Laurie Schulz
27-12-2009, 03:50 PM
laurie.. can you kind of quote the radio conversation as best you remember it??

cheers

The Radio conversation was from the kat to VMR Gladstone:

Kat:

VMR, VMR there has been a shark attach! A young man has been attached by a shark. They are not Australian and WE DONT UNDERSTAND THEM and are now heading for Heron Is for assistance. Can VMR assist with assistance as there is blood everwhere and they are having trouble stopping the bleeding. The wounds a horrific, he's been bitten on the leg, arm and shoulder!

VMR Gladstone:

Are you still in contact with vessel with the injured man.

Kat:

No we've lost them.

Heron Is:

Heron Is to VMR we have our medical staff standing by to provide assistance. Do you know about how long till they arrive?

VMR Gladstone:

No, we don't. We now have a nurse standing by.

Kat:

They should be there in 10 to 15 minutes.

VMR Gladstone:

Heron Island a Medical Chopper in enrout to Heron Island.

Heron Island:

They have arrived and we are providing assistance.

This is the worst thing I have heard over a radio! during this Emergeny there was still people trying to talk over the radio transmissions. some people need to forget the fishing chat for 15 minutes so that the VHF can be used for what it is intended for EMERGENCY!

(AS CLOSE AS I CAN REMMEMBER)

kokomo
28-12-2009, 10:03 AM
both these threads have some great posts

http://spearoz.org/index.php?topic=9355.0

http://www.spearfishing.com.au/

under forum/ team adrenaline find the shark thread

tigermullet
28-12-2009, 11:27 AM
I must be missing something Laurie even though your report of the radio contacts has been read a number of times.

Why do you describe it as the worst thing you have ever heard on the radio??

Radio contact was made Kat to VMR a report given and the rest appears to be ok judging by the responses and preparation. It seems as though there was a language difficulty. If someone was yelling for assistance in a language other than English I wouldn't understand them either and the reverse could be true - if I was yelling for help in English to a boat filled with people who were not familiar with English.

FNQCairns
28-12-2009, 11:46 AM
I just finished reading those thread links posted and it's all a bit of smack in the gob, it never ceases to amaze me how 'strange' and disappointing people can often be. I always allow more first credence to what the typical bloke from the street says than the authorities, media or government but this story is all over the place...even to the point of the species of shark involved.

A person (a nosy one) needs to hear the taped conversation...do these exist?

Anyway it's past the stage where in my life I would have mentally or physically turned my back and walked away.

Might all come out in the wash later??

cheers fnq

trueblue
28-12-2009, 12:42 PM
Without supporting or condemning anyone, it is important to remember that some people handle themselves well in emergencies, and others do not. These are basic personality traits, enhanced by prior experience.

I have watched the least likely people stand up and be counted in serious emergencies, and also watched those you expect to be ok crumble completely under that pressure.

Some people will panic where others will not, and panic is a relative thing. Some people will apear to not be panicing, however under scrutiny their actions and decisions were panic affected.

Language barriers, or even just heavy accents can also increase stress levels in emergencies, due to percieved lack of information.

When hiring people who will accept emergency responsibilities, there is a particular type of person who will be targeted, because it is not a job for everyone. Some people are simply better than others.

When reviewing even well managed emergencies, there are always lessons and opportunities for improvement for all involved.


It is better to simply move forward rather than to criticise and condemn. Make a plan for yourselves, and encourage freinds and associates to to the same - How would you act when confronted by an emergency? Run scenarios through your head and be familiar with your potential courses of action in various situations.

People who have a prior plan, or general understanding of what to do in various emergencies are much more likely to achieve a successful outcome than a person who is suddenly confronted unawares with the same problem.

best to simply move forward

Mick

tigermullet
28-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Very, very correct Trueblue. At one end of the spectrum a percentage of the population will just keel over in a dead faint at the sight of blood or an open wound - at the other end a certain number will cope remarkably well. In between there are all sorts of reactions.

Many can only guess at how they will react - most of the population are never exposed to the sights of traumatic injuries nor the resulting moans, screams, odors or just the stillness of the recently expired. Shock and adrenaline rush adds to the confusion.

It's a bit much to expect every member of the public to handle emergencies with the competence shown by seasoned Ambulance officers and Fire and Emergency personnel.

Whether the above general statements relate in any way to the incident under discussion cannot be known. I'm not into judging or criticizing the responses of any of the participants.

Laurie Schulz
28-12-2009, 05:16 PM
I must be missing something Laurie even though your report of the radio contacts has been read a number of times.

Why do you describe it as the worst thing you have ever heard on the radio??

Radio contact was made Kat to VMR a report given and the rest appears to be ok judging by the responses and preparation. It seems as though there was a language difficulty. If someone was yelling for assistance in a language other than English I wouldn't understand them either and the reverse could be true - if I was yelling for help in English to a boat filled with people who were not familiar with English.


To be so close, and yet so far, and still unable to help, is a hopeless position to be in.

The discription sounded like the young guy was going to bleed out.

The young guy injured and his mates were all as Aussie as you can get.

I suppose panick, and yelling must of confused things, as he also had only serious arm wounds. The Shark was a Bronz Whaler, not a Bull Shark.

I'll remmember that radio call for a long time to come. I'm just glad he's OK.

Laurie

tigermullet
28-12-2009, 06:25 PM
Thanks Laurie. I see what you mean now and it would not have been nice to hear the conversation yet not able to render assistance.

The young bloke is ok, from what I understand and that is the main thing even though he will have some or a lot of physiotherapy to get through.

Jarrah Jack
23-01-2010, 10:12 PM
Have just finished reading this thread and I think it should be posted on the boating forum as well mister mod as , I think, more would read it there .It is more a boating issue than a spearo issue.

This thread is very thought provoking , especially in the way it pans out to make us all question how we would react in an emergency situation. Things can seem very simple on land but on the water is another place altogether. Thanks trueblue for making the whole issue relevant to everyone.

Steeler
27-01-2010, 07:56 AM
Thanks Jarrah Jack, this thread was moved ??????????????????????.i think from memory i posted it in the boating forum but somebody????????????????? moved it to hear????????????????????????????.

I also thought it was more relevant to general boating than Spearfishing?????????????????????????????????????? ??????.

Just my thoughts,but i must be a dope.

Steve