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NEWBY
18-12-2009, 07:32 AM
Some of you will have seen my entries re this topic on other posts. I thought it better to vent my expectations on my own thread so there is no confusion at all on who the whingeing has come from.
The Newby/Lowrance story.
June09, order a new Lowrance HDS 10 with 24 mile Broadband Radar, 1KW Bronze thru hull transducer, GPS with external antennae and the latest mapping software wth 3D and picture overlay.
Excited???? Me????? You bet I was. THEN I get told, 2-3 months waiting. Should I order the Furuno package instead????Nah I will wait....I am told it will be worth the wait.

Late August comes and I get the call from my local guy, Modern Marine Electronics. It's here. I go get it, organise install and get the boat lifted out...

September, Boat back in, test drive, all seems ok just need to do some educational reading and fine tuning on the unit to get it all performing right.
Agnes meet and greet comes, Bertram leaves Gladstone and heads for Fitzroy. Here I will cut the long story short. The sounder cuts out at speed, around 12 kn. No bottom. So I play with settings. Reset the unit. blah blah. No joy.
Then I realise that the external GPS antennae has not been fitted. So on the phone. Waiting on a special T piece apparently. Radar seems fine though. Whats that big boat off to my right showing up on the screen? Also sounder cuts out in 100m water???? Should get at least 1000m...

Agnes M&G over and done I get the installer to come and check everything. He brings a new head unit down. We go out to the harbour and check it out....Still cuts out at speed. Ok it must be the transducer.
Speak to Navico help line, told to do software update first and see if that fixes the problem. So do that, take out for a spin, better but still $hit. Call again, they say to install a secondary transducer to see if it makes a difference. We install a new 600w transom style as a shoot thru hull style and off for another test run. Better, much better but still cuts out at speed. Probably the 600w going thru 50mm of fibreglass???

November....Hervey Bay Game Fish Classic...Sounder still not right...Some fine tuning etc etc and we got bottom at around 250m then cut out...Put in auto mode...Nothing...Hard to find bait in 5-600m of water if your sounder doesnt work. Trip home from Hervey and I was playing with the unit. I find the trip logs...never been there before....trip logs say I have done 279miles....Seems like a lot, I check all my tracks since I put the new unit in, they add up to 216mile????? Now I am thinking I got a "used" or "refurbished" unit... Make the calls, take pics of everything for proof and nobody can explain this...Funny that...But thats another fight for the future.

OK,Call Lowrance after sending pics of transducer and radar problems....Tell them that we are 99.9% sure after all the tests that we have a faulty transducer. I insist that Lowrance pay for the lift out of my boat and re-install of the new transducer. We are now in mid November...Now it gets interesting. Some bloke from Kiwiland, apparenty the bossman, calls me and insists that they will not pay for the re-install but will send a new transducer. I insist that I have already paid for that to happen once and no way was I going to pay twice.

I have now spoken to 4 different people from Lowrance,(plus my lawyer) Kiwiman was away, another Kiwiman calls me and after telling him 4 times that we are sure it is the transducer and if we are wrong, i will pay the bill, not them, he finally agreed to pay some of the bill. I still did not accept that stating that I did not ask them to contribute to the initial install, I was not contributing to the second one. another few arguments, another 3 times explaning that if it didnt work I would pay and eventually he agrees. Sends me an email with 4 conditions attached...1 of which by the way was NOT that I would pay the bill if we have misdiagnosed....Gees....
Condition 4 was that I cease all legal proceedings against Lowrance and, get this, "agree not to EVER commence legal proceedings against them EVER again in relation to the supply, install etc of the equipment" I email back saying that in Australia, it is not allowed that a consumer can just waive their legal rights like that. It is agains the Fair Trading Act I tell him....Rubbbish I get told....agreement ends there. I call the lawyer again and tell him were back on. That was Monday 14th December and over 3 months after install and reporting the problem. Tuesday 15th, I am sitting in the chair getting a tattoo finished and the phone rings, it Kiwiman No1 calling me...Now if you have had a tattoo you know it hurts like hell so was probably not the best time to call me, however, he called to say they would agree with the install quote and to go ahead.

I will let you know if it fixes the problem.....The radar and external anntennae are still to be rectifed ad the last fight will be the 60+ miles that are on the unit that I didnt put on it.

So in summary....
4 extraordinary trips at 1 hour water time per trip. 1 hour lost with travel and boat launch every time.
Over 40 phone calls
30+ emails.
3 months+ in waiting.
3 different transducers, 2 head units.
Radar still has blip on screen.
External antennae T piece just arrived. Not installed yet.
Boat now up on hard stand. Wont be finished for xmas break cause of all the delays in getting a decision from these guys. Wont see her until mid January now...

Customer service?????? I am disgusted and appauled personally. I will never, while my arse points to the ground, buy another lowrance product or anything that is associated with Navico. When the warranty is over on this unit and it stuffs up, I will bin it and buy Furuno as I should have done in the first place.

By the way, I also emailed the head office in America twice only to get responses saying to contact Australian office.

bluefin59
18-12-2009, 08:50 AM
Ask for a refund mate its obvious that its not fit for use and not what it is advertised as ,consumer affairs will support you i am sure phone them and check. Pack it up and buy the furuno its appaulling that they treat there customers this way no wonder people buy o/s since the service you get here is nonexistant bugger lowrance they may have some great features but they're no good if they dont bloody work ,i feel your pain ..matt

NEWBY
18-12-2009, 09:35 AM
Ask for a refund mate its obvious that its not fit for use and not what it is advertised as ,consumer affairs will support you i am sure phone them and check. Pack it up and buy the furuno its appaulling that they treat there customers this way no wonder people buy o/s since the service you get here is nonexistant bugger lowrance they may have some great features but they're no good if they dont bloody work ,i feel your pain ..matt
Refund was the next option but with all associated costs being asked fro it would have amounted to 15-20k and I would have had to go through the courts. Would take a while I think...Better part of a year.

murf
18-12-2009, 09:37 AM
thanks NEWBY :) you are teaching me heaps, I just stood my ground and didn't put up with the sellers games with something else and got a satisfactory outcome

I too am feeling your pain as your have paid for the top notch stuff and are getting the cheap knock up style of performance in all areas :(

have a top xmas with the family even without the old girl in the water and I hope you finaly get a satisfactory outcome

cheers Murf

murf
18-12-2009, 09:53 AM
and I did have a Lowrance on my gunna list

Furuno you say :)

cheers Murf

Ninja
18-12-2009, 10:45 AM
Running gear from and dealing with both companies...I'd have to agree. I was only lucky that I knew a decision maker at Lowrance. Getting service on imported Furno units isn't that much easier but all things considered...I'll stick to Furuno. Newby...good to share. Word of mouth and public perception has more affect on sales then big companies like to believe.

krazyfisher
18-12-2009, 11:45 AM
must say I have tried lowrance a number of time and never been real happy

Maccas
18-12-2009, 12:08 PM
Newby,

Have a read of the thread about importing Lowrance from the US. Mikes states that some US dealers won't even quote you on a Lowrance as they have had two many problems with them and Lowrance service is crap. That is also my experience as well. I guess if you got on the Hull Truth website there would be a few horror stories like yours. I reckon you are entitled to a full refund or at the very least your unit working to the advertised specs.

Beware of legal action though as generally your lawyers fees are not 100% claimable fom the other side even if you win in court. Better to settle before you get that far if you can. I am talking from personal experience but you should check with your lawyer. Good luck.

BTW I went Humminbird for the sidescan.

Cheers,

Maccas

siegfried
18-12-2009, 03:58 PM
Mate, I have been following this saga since it started and you are far from alone , after reading this and hearing a few blokes down here going crook ther is no way I would buy Lowrance gear today. When your talking the money you are they shoulda been bending over backwards. One of the blokes I fish with got lcx112 from seppoland via ebay 18 mths ago and it wouldnt work from day one. Lowrance Aust actually swapped it for a new one within days so they have definately let their service go to $hit. Good luck with it and I hope you get a win

Trekka273
18-12-2009, 08:23 PM
I have to say that i don't envy the position that you are in. I have had similar experiences with non-marine items and it takes a lot of work, stress and bullsh1t to get them sorted out. Good luck with getting the right outcome.

I was really keen to buy an HDS 5 or 7 in early in the new year, but I have seen too much bad stuff written about them recently that has turned me off. Does anyone know of other options within the price range for similar style units? I had a look at the Furuno GP 7000F which looks beautiful, but the price is a lot higher. What other combo unit options are available?

DTHCoCo
18-12-2009, 11:05 PM
Mate i agree the blokes at Navico australia aren't worth pi$$ing on when they are on fire, they are absolutely hopeless. I have a similar setup to yours HDS 10M, LRA-1800 HD RADAR,LGC-400GPS ,SIMRAD Heading Sensor and Broadband Sounder. I rang them and spoke to a fella named rob to enquire about the structure scan unit to find out if it would work with my setup i was told no but if i where to remove the broadband sounder out of the situation it would work. Me thinking that he was incorrect i immediately fired an email off to Lowrance in the states and i was told that 100% my setup would work, like i had thought as all the structure scan unit is another Ethernet connection.

I then rang the idiots at Navico aus to inform them of my finding i spoke to a Graeme and i informed him of the situation and rob making a mistake i was then called a liar and that rob wouldn't have told me this. What i also found it that none of there workers are experienced in any of the radar field area they are absolutely dumbfounded.

mojoe1
18-12-2009, 11:33 PM
good luck newby too much outlay for this sort of result. i just got my hds5 head unit replaced under warranty the unit lost sound was only 6 months old.so far the thing has not set the world on fire slow to pick up the bottom even in shallow water and drops out at speed over 12kns fed up with stuffing around with the tranny.had a garmin 140 on my old tinny worked at any speed cost less than 200 bucks.

NEWBY
19-12-2009, 06:32 AM
Newby,



Beware of legal action though as generally your lawyers fees are not 100% claimable fom the other side even if you win in court. Better to settle before you get that far if you can. I am talking from personal experience but you should check with your lawyer. Good luck.

BTW I went Humminbird for the sidescan.

Cheers,

Maccas

Cheers Macca, I dont really care about the money.....Its the principal and they knew it in the end. F***K em. Funny thing is, they didnt have a leg to stand on and they were aware of that but they still pi$$ed me off with delay delay delay and lost me for life now. Go figure....These companies spend Millions of dollars to get me to buy their product and they lost me for a few bucks....

NEWBY
19-12-2009, 06:38 AM
Mate i agree the blokes at Navico australia aren't worth pi$$ing on when they are on fire, they are absolutely hopeless. I have a similar setup to yours HDS 10M, LRA-1800 HD RADAR,LGC-400GPS ,SIMRAD Heading Sensor and Broadband Sounder. I rang them and spoke to a fella named rob to enquire about the structure scan unit to find out if it would work with my setup i was told no but if i where to remove the broadband sounder out of the situation it would work. Me thinking that he was incorrect i immediately fired an email off to Lowrance in the states and i was told that 100% my setup would work, like i had thought as all the structure scan unit is another Ethernet connection.

I then rang the idiots at Navico aus to inform them of my finding i spoke to a Graeme and i informed him of the situation and rob making a mistake i was then called a liar and that rob wouldn't have told me this. What i also found it that none of there workers are experienced in any of the radar field area they are absolutely dumbfounded.
I have dealt with Rob a few times and he has been fine with me so far. I haent even started on the Radar problems with them yet. Apparently its just a "setting" on one of the filters...We will see....
They seem to $hitcan each other a lot at Lowrance in Sydney. everyone I deal with is crytical of the last one I spoke to. My dealer reckons that before they were bought out by Navico, Lowrance guys were awsome in NZ and if there was a problem, they were on it and sorted it. How things change..

NEWBY
19-12-2009, 06:51 AM
[quote=Trekka273;1109582]I have to say that i don't envy the position that you are in. I have had similar experiences with non-marine items and it takes a lot of work, stress and bullsh1t to get them sorted out. Good luck with getting the right outcome..quote]
I promise you that I will get the right outcome. One way or the other. I dont cop inferior service from anyone at any time anymore. When I purchase somthing, I even pre warn them now I have got so bad. So if what I get is $hit, the are fully aware that I will be back and will not go away. Most of the time, I dont get too many problems. My local guy did what he could so not his drama.

I own and operate a 5 franchise car yard. If I ran my business like Navico, I would be out of business in 3 months. My guys are under strict instructions, "Our customers do not have problems" its our motto. If something breaks, get the customer mobile and get to the root of the problem PRONTO...sometimes it is the customers fault sometimes its parts failure and sometimes we have stuffed something up.(Not me personally of course) either way, find the problem and resolve it with no fuss. Problem with some of the bigger companies these days is they assume the client has done something wrong and avoid warranty problems as long as they can....Old school attitude....Ignore you long enough you will go away...Samsung tried that on me too years ago. I hate to think what it has cost them in lost sales.
Subaru are about to launch a new program in February its called A4TD All 4 The Driver. Probably the most exciting customer service program ever attempted in Australia. We have had the attitude for years but now the manufacturer will back it up. They have already implemented the changes and are fine tuning for a public launch. This will set a precedence the likes you lot have never seen before in Australian Motoring. I cant wait...Makes our job easier when your suppliers are not ducking and diving.

NEWBY
19-12-2009, 06:59 AM
good luck newby too much outlay for this sort of result. i just got my hds5 head unit replaced under warranty the unit lost sound was only 6 months old.so far the thing has not set the world on fire slow to pick up the bottom even in shallow water and drops out at speed over 12kns fed up with stuffing around with the tranny.had a garmin 140 on my old tinny worked at any speed cost less than 200 bucks.
I hear ya...Same problem...It seems the transducers are the problem...Way too sensitive to turbulence or something. Not sure. I have paid the extra and had mine moved into apparently "a better place" according to 1 guy at Lowrance. So another hole in my boat....DOH...Dont give up mate...Go hard on em...
I would have no hesitation in spending $1000 to get $50 if principal was involved... The greenies need to take heed on this one as I am now joining the fight for my lifestyle... I am a firm believer "Its not how you play the game, its winning that counts" Who did Muhamad Ali beat in the olympics to win a gold medal????? Exactly....Nobody remembers second....
I have lived by a creed that my old boss and I came up with years ago "F***K the F*****G F*******ers..... Its how I got to where I am I think (its certainly not a good education...lol...)....Win at all costs...

lee8sec
19-12-2009, 09:15 AM
I posted some where that i had hoped that lowrance service would improve when navico came to town, sadly it looks like it hasn't.
I have got a hds5x & a 5m in the boat i just brought, so iam stuck with them for now. Furuno will be the replacements if i have problems down the track. Leigh

Apollo
19-12-2009, 04:10 PM
Newby

You better get this sorted before we come up to pick up the rod. We have standards you know.

Cheers
Steve

NEWBY
20-12-2009, 07:56 AM
Newby

You better get this sorted before we come up to pick up the rod. We have standards you know.

Cheers
Steve
Yeah yeah knows ya standards. I STILL have "THE ROD" remember? Old worn out rod with equally worn out line belonging to an equally worn out old fisheman that ties an even more worn out "THE LURE" on and catches suicidal Marlin. I know ya standards mate.:thumbsup:
The boat will be back in the water by nid Janury with a trip scheduled for Australia day weekend. 4 dayer this time I think as it falls on the Tuesday. As usual, weather permitting...
Here is a list of what I am doing to the boat before re-launch.
1) New transducer...
2) New port drive shaft. (while it was out of the water, they found my shaft was bent in 2 places.)
3) Batteries moved fore to the gen room. (weight distribution)and 1 more 200 added for extra power. 4 in total now. 3 house and 1 starter
4) Many oil leaks rectified.
5) Custom built, stainless rudders installed. Love this one....Had a slight leak starboard rudder, once again, while she's out of the water, lets have a look and sort it. Well bronze cast rudder was cracked in shaft and shaft seal also cracked. The old girl never did perform that well in following seas or at slow speeds. So 30% bigger rudders are getting manufactured from stainless. Believe it or not, this was cheaper than getting new bronze ones....
6) Pump ot all fuel, refill tank with amonia to kill off all bloody algea (black death) and remove all fuel lines etc and also treat with biocide to kill all algea.
7) Redesign whole cabin with weight being the main consideration on refit. Probably just use different, lighter timber and redo all original with it.
8) Reseal all windows and remove corrosion
9) Cut and polish gelcoat...
10) get a 6th mortgage to pay for it all:'(

trymyluck
20-12-2009, 08:13 AM
Yeah yeah knows ya standards. I STILL have "THE ROD" remember? Old worn out rod with equally worn out line belonging to an equally worn out old fisheman that ties an even more worn out "THE LURE" on and catches suicidal Marlin. I know ya standards mate.:thumbsup:
The boat will be back in the water by nid Janury with a trip scheduled for Australia day weekend. 4 dayer this time I think as it falls on the Tuesday. As usual, weather permitting...
Here is a list of what I am doing to the boat before re-launch.
1) New transducer...
2) New port drive shaft. (while it was out of the water, they found my shaft was bent in 2 places.)
3) Batteries moved fore to the gen room. (weight distribution)and 1 more 200 added for extra power. 4 in total now. 3 house and 1 starter
4) Many oil leaks rectified.
5) Custom built, stainless rudders installed. Love this one....Had a slight leak starboard rudder, once again, while she's out of the water, lets have a look and sort it. Well bronze cast rudder was cracked in shaft and shaft seal also cracked. The old girl never did perform that well in following seas or at slow speeds. So 30% bigger rudders are getting manufactured from stainless. Believe it or not, this was cheaper than getting new bronze ones....
6) Pump ot all fuel, refill tank with amonia to kill off all bloody algea (black death) and remove all fuel lines etc and also treat with biocide to kill all algea.
7) Redesign whole cabin with weight being the main consideration on refit. Probably just use different, lighter timber and redo all original with it.
8) Reseal all windows and remove corrosion
9) Cut and polish gelcoat...
10) get a 6th mortgage to pay for it all:'(

That outfit is one of our better ones, ::) whats wrong with it??????????:-/


Well ya know what B.O.A.T. stands for don't you. Bring On Another Thousand. Although in your case it is more like ten thousand.;D

Mark

Apollo
20-12-2009, 12:12 PM
That outfit is one of our better ones, ::) whats wrong with it??????????:-/



Mark

Yeah, what's wrong with it????? Ya reckon that is bad, you should see what I land barra on:o

Some of us believe in GO over SHOW:D

Steve

bugman
20-12-2009, 09:54 PM
[quote=NEWBY;1109667] Who did Muhamad Ali beat in the olympics to win a gold medal????? Exactly....Nobody remembers second....

For the record it was Poland's Zbigniew Pietrzykowski.

NEWBY
21-12-2009, 07:30 AM
[quote=NEWBY;1109667] Who did Muhamad Ali beat in the olympics to win a gold medal????? Exactly....Nobody remembers second....

For the record it was Poland's Zbigniew Pietrzykowski.
No woder nobody remembers it:D :D

Tangles
21-12-2009, 08:22 PM
but we remember anchors?

NEWBY
22-12-2009, 06:50 AM
Hoooooo Hummmmmm The saga continues. If there is ANY advice I can give anyone it is this, no matter what anyone ever offers you be it dispute or deals, GET IT IN WRITING.... ALWAYS...... A wise man once said to me(actually he was a dead set W****ER but this advice was great) "If it aint been written, it aint been said" Get everything in writing. After my discussion and final resolve last week with Darren Coneybear form NAVICO NZ, I have asked twice now for the approval in writing via email. I havent got it yet. He hasnt even acknowledged the request or responded in any way. Darren is apparently the bossman of customer service/technical support for the whole of oz and NZ.... Way to go NAVICO, your dismal display of customer service continues. I will keep you all posted on this. Should be a great warm up for me when I "GO HARD" on the hairy armpit brigade who want to steal our lifestyles.

TheRealAndy
22-12-2009, 07:39 AM
Nice work Newby. I was going to purchase an HDS but I think I might hold off for now. thanks for the heads up.

bronsonwinston
22-12-2009, 08:26 AM
I have had a HDS 10 for a few months now and love it. Tracks bottom and pick up detail on the reefs at 60km/hr. GPS works a treat as well and when familiar with the page buttons its very easy to use. Looking forward to the structure scan should arrive in the next couple of days. Sorry Newby that you got a dud of a unit but when working they are a great bit of gear and i personally wouldnt deter someone in buying a HDS unit.

bluefin59
22-12-2009, 04:08 PM
Go to google and put in loarance hd problems and see what you get , if that isnt enough to put you off then go on your merry way and buy one ,i know o wouldn't no way ...matt

NEWBY
23-12-2009, 07:12 AM
OK Update....
Got my letter yesterday. So finally, after over 3 months of problems and now nearly 6 weeks of fighting and arguing with Navico, we should have a resolve. The new transducer is already installed AND has been relocated further aft.
Boat goes back in the water round 10th January then we can start work on the Radar and the GPS external antennae.

NEWBY
23-12-2009, 07:15 AM
I have had a HDS 10 for a few months now and love it. Tracks bottom and pick up detail on the reefs at 60km/hr. GPS works a treat as well and when familiar with the page buttons its very easy to use. Looking forward to the structure scan should arrive in the next couple of days. Sorry Newby that you got a dud of a unit but when working they are a great bit of gear and i personally wouldnt deter someone in buying a HDS unit.
Cheers for that. I really hope it works well after this. I am not trying to put anyone off though, just buyer beware thats all. I am the first to admit that when yourgoing after new technology be prepared for as few bugs. And I was...I wasnt prepared for extremely poor customer service... Thats what has pi$$ed me off so much. Not the product...

lee8sec
23-12-2009, 02:37 PM
Sadly i can report it hasn't improved in the last week. I ordered, through a dealer the ethernet cable to do soft ware ungrades on my HDS5X, was told nil stock, due in a week. Well now 2 weeks has gone, still nil stock & NO eta.
This cable should be supplied with the unit as without it you can do software reflashing. Leigh

NEWBY
23-12-2009, 02:47 PM
Sadly i can report it hasn't improved in the last week. I ordered, through a dealer the ethernet cable to do soft ware ungrades on my HDS5X, was told nil stock, due in a week. Well now 2 weeks has gone, still nil stock & NO eta.
This cable should be supplied with the unit as without it you can do software reflashing. Leigh
Mate, I did mine off the card...Does the HDS 5 not have a card slot?
Call Rob at tech support. 1300628426

krazyfisher
23-12-2009, 03:12 PM
the hds 5x sounder does not have a card slot as it is only a sounder

lee8sec
23-12-2009, 03:12 PM
The 5X doesnt have a slot, you use the card slot on the 5M & the cable to join the units together. Leigh



Mate, I did mine off the card...Does the HDS 5 not have a card slot?
Call Rob at tech support. 1300628426

Sandman
24-12-2009, 08:35 PM
I have held off from buying one as my mate purchased one and it was sent off with a new unit returned its HDS5 which appear not to have as many probs.

But going by what i have read its dead in the water and going by the views of this thread Lowrance hasnt done themselves any favours .

Cookies and beer are out gotta go to work ::)

NEWBY
25-12-2009, 08:30 AM
I have held off from buying one as my mate purchased one and it was sent off with a new unit returned its HDS5 which appear not to have as many probs.

But going by what i have read its dead in the water and going by the views of this thread Lowrance hasnt done themselves any favours .

Cookies and beer are out gotta go to work ::)
Your right, they have not done themselves any favours. Millions a year in advertising to get me to buy their gear. No amount of advertising will get me to buy Lowrance again. A bit of good customer service would have kept me. You ca cop the problems if they acknowledge, accept and atack them.

Lucky_Phill
25-12-2009, 09:29 AM
AS you know big fella.... I am a Garmin / Furuno fan from way back to papergragh stuff and Sat Nav.

I hear ya about customer service......... Where TF has it gone these days, do not business's care about return customers or even backing their product ????

I remember when I first met you and we discussed your business and you told me a little story about " it's not the price of the car, but the deal ". I have taken that on board when starting my own business and have never looked back. Never seriously advertised and do not have one unhappy customer in over 2 years.

This thread is about customer service, I see that. It is also about the lack of product knowledge by support staff and substandard product. I can accept human error and electronics are fickle, but when it comes to many thousands of ( hard earned or borrowed ;) ) dollars being spent to improve the quality of leisure time on the water, it is hard to fathom the attitude of Lowrance Navico.

Sorry to hear about your bent shaft........ hope your marriage doesn't suffer because of that :o :P :P

The only thing I can tell you is that I purchased a Furuno 668 many years ago for my 17ft boat. At the same time purchased a garmin GPS.

Furuno ( very old technology CRT ) still going strong on new boat and Gramin was upgraded. Never had an issue. Maybe I am lucky ????

Anyway. when you have a few minutes, have a squizz here.

You can get a free DVD ( which I have ), mind blowing technology

http://www.wassp.com/


cheers LP

NEWBY
27-12-2009, 08:55 AM
AS you know big fella.... I am a Garmin / Furuno fan from way back to papergragh stuff and Sat Nav.

I hear ya about customer service......... Where TF has it gone these days, do not business's care about return customers or even backing their product ????

I remember when I first met you and we discussed your business and you told me a little story about " it's not the price of the car, but the deal ". I have taken that on board when starting my own business and have never looked back. Never seriously advertised and do not have one unhappy customer in over 2 years.

This thread is about customer service, I see that. It is also about the lack of product knowledge by support staff and substandard product. I can accept human error and electronics are fickle, but when it comes to many thousands of ( hard earned or borrowed ;) ) dollars being spent to improve the quality of leisure time on the water, it is hard to fathom the attitude of Lowrance Navico.

Sorry to hear about your bent shaft........ hope your marriage doesn't suffer because of that :o :P :P

The only thing I can tell you is that I purchased a Furuno 668 many years ago for my 17ft boat. At the same time purchased a garmin GPS.

Furuno ( very old technology CRT ) still going strong on new boat and Gramin was upgraded. Never had an issue. Maybe I am lucky ????

Anyway. when you have a few minutes, have a squizz here.

You can get a free DVD ( which I have ), mind blowing technology

http://www.wassp.com/


cheers LP
Been there, got the DVD nearly 5 years ago mate.
Thanks anyway Mr Johnny Come Lately.;)
Thanks for the positive reinforcement on the advice I gave you. There are many more little gems I use mate... Over a few coldies one day...

Bowser
01-01-2010, 10:19 AM
I have had Lowrance gear for many years now, some from here and some from the States. I have had some difficulties generally through exposure or electrical problems but in all honesty have found that their customer service here in Oz has been great. I have even had units replaced from the States where, when I really looked at the problem worked out that it was my fault not the units (electrical spike cooked the antenae and head unit) without whimper. I have called Oz for technical support several times and got through very quickly, got an answer or advice and moved on. I understand that this isn't always the case in the States but we don't live there so who gives a ....!

I know that Furono gear has a great rep for reliability, but bear in mind the boats that have them fitted. They are expensive items and are generally fitted to larger boats inside cabins/hardtops generally professionally installed and well mounted and very protected protected. The guys with small boats don't spend the same dollars on the sounder as it is not reality to put a unit that costs close to 2 grand in 5 grand boat. Units fitted to these boats are generally less protected, cop the odd and sometimes a lot of sea water over the side and still perform. Sure in these cases you will get failures, the same as you get failure from submersible, sealed trailer lights when they cop a dose of salt water.

The big scream about teh Lowrance units in the States was about HDS7's and 7's only, getting water intrusion. A lot of these were set up as 2nd sounders in the bow of bass boats where they were seriously exposed to water and got it. There was a factory problem which was fixed and the units were replaced. The initial reaction was slow, as most corporates are these days but they did come good. Something that our major corps don't, especially the banks. You don't see a lot of Furono's in this situation and I am willing to bet that if there were you would get failures. Stick your Furono on the gunnel of your 12 foot tinnie or on the foredeck/ casting platform of your gun bream boat and run around the bay for several months, let it cope with the salt and exposure and see how solidly they perform, it won't happen because most guys will look at the cost, spend a grand less on the sounder and more on the boat, it is just the way of the world.

One of the bugbears and also a great advantage of the HDS units is the software. It wasn't quite right and is now better, I still think there are some issues, but the design of the units enables rapid and easy software upgrades. This means that your current unit will be able to go through significant advances without having to replace the head unit to take advantage of the improvements. At the moment these are free, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a charge come into place at some stage. It only makes business sense. They are a manufacturer and only make money from selling units. Everything has built in redundancy these days, manly through technological advances. I will be more then happy to pay for a software upgrade that gives me a better system if it means that I outlay $50 or $100 instead of $1000 or more for a new unit. The other manufacturers aren't anywhere near this, if your $2grand furono becomes outdated by a technological advance you are up for another $2 grand or keep the unit you have. I understand that the problems at he start of this thread are more to do with the new radar system, but I think at least part of the problem is the newness of the thing. There is no base of knowledge to work from and everyone is trying to work out what is really what. It will get better and become a lot more common, unfortunately you seem to be the guy that got in first and are the crash test dummy. I hope that it all comes good for you. To me, it is a lot like NMEA2000, I find very few people have any understanding of it and getting this is near impossible because there are again very few specialists in it. It is far easier to run a dozen sets of wires from the motor to the helm in the same old way as we have always done. The trouble is that you only use a small part of the power of the computers in the engines and head units. You wouldn't buy a new car today that didn't have the displays and engine management systems available to you so why settle for a boat without it?

Grand_Marlin
01-01-2010, 09:02 PM
Well said Boswser.

The key point to all the Lowrance issues has been Software.
The hard part is that even though it is software, it is only random units that are showing faults... not every unit, just random units through all models.
Weird, but Lowrance are fixing the problems with software updates as they are found, and it is a simple task to do it - no returns necessary.

Newby, I feel for you Mate ... no one likes to end up in that situation. I don't know who installed it etc etc, but at the end of the day it shouldn't have been made your problem to solve. In my opinion, the supplier & installer should have got you sorted and then argued themselves with Lowrance / Navico as to who paid for what.
I would like to point out that the transducer you have is an Airmar brand transucer, not a Lowrance made item.
Airmar does make a great item and I can say that you are extremely unlucky to have a 1kw transducer fail on you.
Airmar supplies transducers (either standard or optional) to nearly all electronics manufacturers.
The Radar? Don't know, but no doubt it will be sorted for you as well.

I heard Rob's name from Navico mentioned earlier.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Rob is the guru for Lowrance technical problems.
Please keep in mind that the HDS is brand new and everyone - purchasers, dealers and Lowrance techs are still sorting out the finer points as we go along.

For every person that has experienced a problem, there are hundreds of others, including myself and my clients that are absolutely amazed with these units.
As most people know, I supply and fit Raymarine, Furuno and Lowrance and I still firmly believe that Lowrance is the best value for money package available at this time, with the best features and ease of use on the market.

Cheers

Pete

p.s. Lee8sec, if you need things like ethernet cables and can't get them, feel free to ask, I can always lend you one to get you out of trouble.

krazyfisher
02-01-2010, 06:53 AM
Grand Marlin I have a hds 5x how is the software upgrade a simple task to do - no returns necessary??? no card reader is a major fault to start with.

Grand_Marlin
02-01-2010, 07:33 AM
Good point about the card reader.

If you drop into your local dealer I am sure they can take care of it for you in store.

Cheers

Pete

krazyfisher
02-01-2010, 08:27 AM
the only way I can get it done up here is send it back to lowrance.. yes free of charge but takes a couple of weeks, the reason so I am told is lowrance never send the up to date card.

Grand_Marlin
02-01-2010, 08:49 AM
Doesn't add up to being right Krazy,

I have the card from Lowrance (I just asked because I couldn't download the update due to my wireless broadband dropping out) and anyone can download the updates directly from the Lowrance website.

Sounds like someone can't be bothered to help you.

Yes, I admit the HDS 5x update is a bit taxing in your situation, but keep at it, find a way because the benefits still far outweigh the inconvenience of getting th eupdate done.

Also, with the 5x...
If your unit is working fine and you aren't intending to fit Structure Scan, then there is no immediate need for an update.

Cheers

Pete

NEWBY
02-01-2010, 10:42 AM
I know that Furono gear has a great rep for reliability, but bear in mind the boats that have them fitted. They are expensive items and are generally fitted to larger boats inside cabins/hardtops generally professionally installed and well mounted and very protected protected. I get ya drift here mate but I have mine fitted to a 35 Bertram up in the flybridge.
The big scream about teh Lowrance units in the States was about HDS7's and 7's only, getting water intrusion. A lot of these were set up as 2nd sounders in the bow of bass boats where they were seriously exposed to water and got it. There was a factory problem which was fixed and the units were replaced. The initial reaction was slow, as most corporates are these days but they did come good. Something that our major corps don't, especially the banks. You don't see a lot of Furono's in this situation and I am willing to bet that if there were you would get failures. Stick your Furono on the gunnel of your 12 foot tinnie or on the foredeck/ casting platform of your gun bream boat and run around the bay for several months, let it cope with the salt and exposure and see how solidly they perform, it won't happen because most guys will look at the cost, spend a grand less on the sounder and more on the boat, it is just the way of the world. Same again. Fitted to flybridge. No water. Or minimal anyway.

One of the bugbears and also a great advantage of the HDS units is the software. It wasn't quite right and is now better, I still think there are some issues, but the design of the units enables rapid and easy software upgrades. This means that your current unit will be able to go through significant advances without having to replace the head unit to take advantage of the improvements. At the moment these are free, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a charge come into place at some stage. It only makes business sense. They are a manufacturer and only make money from selling units. Everything has built in redundancy these days, manly through technological advances. I will be more then happy to pay for a software upgrade that gives me a better system if it means that I outlay $50 or $100 instead of $1000 or more for a new unit. The other manufacturers aren't anywhere near this, if your $2grand furono becomes outdated by a technological advance you are up for another $2 grand or keep the unit you have. I understand that the problems at he start of this thread are more to do with the new radar system, but I think at least part of the problem is the newness of the thing. There is no base of knowledge to work from and everyone is trying to work out what is really what. It will get better and become a lot more common, unfortunately you seem to be the guy that got in first and are the crash test dummy. I hope that it all comes good for you. To me, it is a lot like NMEA2000, I find very few people have any understanding of it and getting this is near impossible because there are again very few specialists in it. It is far easier to run a dozen sets of wires from the motor to the helm in the same old way as we have always done. The trouble is that you only use a small part of the power of the computers in the engines and head units. You wouldn't buy a new car today that didn't have the displays and engine management systems available to you so why settle for a boat without it? I cant resist this one mate...:D I stock and sell the all new Great Wall utes and wagons from China these days. They are still running on the old technology. NO COMPUTER... I nearly fell off my chair when I was told. But get this, were selling heaps of them and a few in the know are getting them because of the lack of engine management systems. Go figure... Same as some people simply dont like power windows. Hard to find a car without them but some people genuinely hate them.

Mate seriously I know where your coming from but 4 months???? Nahhh mate thats just poor form. I also understand that it is an Airmar transducer not Lowrance (Navico) I paid 9 grand to get the HDS 10 with broadband radar, 1kw transducer and navionics gold card. I also elected to get the external antennae for the GPS. that STILL is not fitted, They have to have a special fitting to work. 3 months for a F*****G T piece???? Poor form. Really poor form. The Radar has a blip on the screen at 95 degrees to the centre about 2/3 across the screen. No matter what zoom, its there. Shows up like a large boat on the screen. There is another one at 0 degrees that is intermittent. Apparently it is something to do with a filter setting???? Its on AUTO....
Mate they tried to avoid this one. Trust me, I am in the car industry and have seen warranty avoidance way too many times in my life from unscrupulous dealers and I have also seen the devastating results to family's. They kept on insisting it was placement of transducer. When I am drifting and 11 tonne of boat is pushing the transducer 3 feet or more in clear water, how the F**k can it be a placement problem??? And the fact I have 2 others working perfectly well across the same line of the hull. That was the frustration. They simply kept trying to put the blame elsewhere... BLOODY POOR FORM. The installer/supplier spent many unproductive and unpaid hours, as did I, testing all possibilities. Rob from technical in Sydney was great.
Dont get me wrong, I have not really knocked the product mate and wouldnt have bought it if I didnt think it represeted value for money and a very well featured product. Its the customer service when somethin does go wrong that is NOT a sofware issue. Bloody awfull...POOR FORM. This is MY personal opinion and personal experience. They rushed the product to market. Little or no accessories and parts. IE Tee piece for GPS aerial and I see mentioned verious other items like cables for upgrades etc. Just look at this and many other threads like it. Lowrance have NOT done themselves any favours with the HDS.

NEWBY
02-01-2010, 10:58 AM
Well said Boswser.

The key point to all the Lowrance issues has been Software. Not in my case unfortunately.
The hard part is that even though it is software, it is only random units that are showing faults... not every unit, just random units through all models.
Weird, but Lowrance are fixing the problems with software updates as they are found, and it is a simple task to do it - no returns necessary.

Newby, I feel for you Mate ... no one likes to end up in that situation. I don't know who installed it etc etc, but at the end of the day it shouldn't have been made your problem to solve. In my opinion, the supplier & installer should have got you sorted and then argued themselves with Lowrance / Navico as to who paid for what. Mate I cannot fault Modern Marine. They invested a lot of unproductive hours on rectification. They fought the fight they could. I know, I have fought that fight many times. The consumer has more pull than the supplier. Many times with many manufacturers we have fought the fight to get a customers car fixed under waranty. We get told NO WAY and the customer rings up and is up in arms at the manufacturer, then we get the call to fix it....Why didnt they just do it in the forst place?
I would like to point out that the transducer you have is an Airmar brand transucer, not a Lowrance made item.
Airmar does make a great item and I can say that you are extremely unlucky to have a 1kw transducer fail on you.
Airmar supplies transducers (either standard or optional) to nearly all electronics manufacturers. 90+% of all transducers used are Airmar... I "quote" navico on that.
The Radar? Don't know, but no doubt it will be sorted for you as well. I will let you know.

I heard Rob's name from Navico mentioned earlier.
I can tell you with absolute certainty that Rob is the guru for Lowrance technical problems. Rob has ben great. 1 fault, he forgets to call you back sometimes.

Please keep in mind that the HDS is brand new and everyone - purchasers, dealers and Lowrance techs are still sorting out the finer points as we go along. I reitterate, Navico released it to market too quickly trying to recoup development costs and the cost of buying up Northstar and Lowrace.

For every person that has experienced a problem, there are hundreds of others, including myself and my clients that are absolutely amazed with these units.
As most people know, I supply and fit Raymarine, Furuno and Lowrance and I still firmly believe that Lowrance is the best value for money package available at this time, with the best features and ease of use on the market. I have only stated my personal issues. But you have read through the threads and know the ratio of problem to satisfied is WAY out of sync. Your a dealer. You know what it should be. You know what to look for here and I understand your viewpoint.

Cheers

Pete

p.s. Lee8sec, if you need things like ethernet cables and can't get them, feel free to ask, I can always lend you one to get you out of trouble.
Now this is customer service Lee. Why hasnt the dealer YOU bought it off offered you this solution or even Navico themselves? Good on you Pete. Hats off to you mate.

Grand_Marlin
02-01-2010, 11:49 AM
Thanks Newby,

Your saga is not my barrow to push so to speak, I just hope they all get their act together and get you sorted because when it is all working you are going to be a very happy man... that I can personally guarantee.

You can only take the backup service you have had and rate it as you see it.
It is sad because the HDS is a brilliant piece of equipment and the good reports we get back from customers and from my own usage, this stuff is extraordinary.

All the best,

Pete

lee8sec
02-01-2010, 09:10 PM
Pete, thanks for the offer. I will wait until mine arrives as i haven't decided if iam going to get side scan so dont need to flash it yet, i mainly wanted the software upgrade for any other "fixes". Iam more pissed that i cant, due to there lack of parts.
Thanks for your review of the side scan unit, good to here a "normal" persons veiw on operation.

Newby, the other "joke" is the supplying lowrance dealer cant reflash(no cable) but another lowance dealer, who they rang up, around the corner has got the cable & could do it, but he guy was on holidays( fair enough).

I didnt buy the sounder or plotter, they where in the boat when i got it, i have the original receipts, 3 months old. Not that it makes any differance. Thanks Leigh

PS it shouldn't be up to Pete to try fix a Navico problem, more so when it wasn't one of his sales. But i do appreciate the offer. Leigh 6.44am 3/1/10

Stido1
07-01-2010, 03:56 PM
After much reading through Ausfish threads & contemplation I have decided to stay with my original plan of getting a Lowrance HDS Fish Finder/GPS Combo unit.

I'm just wondering what would be the best price I would be looking at to purchase a HDS-5 or HDS-7 here in good ol' Oz? With the problems people have been discussing here I'm not game to purchase from OS?

Are there any good prices from sellers out there that anyone is aware of? It's a bugger having to work to a budget.

lee8sec
07-01-2010, 04:10 PM
Cable turned up today. Leigh

leelee
07-01-2010, 06:15 PM
Grand marlin is one of the best suppliers I have ever dealt with.

After about 6 weeks my HDS7 had an issue of not working.

Between Navico and Pete I had a brand new unit delivered to my place of work by Pete.

Now that’s service. Service like this brings me back and Pete will always get my returning business.

Newby i feel for you mate, but like Pete said, once you get the whole system sorted you will not believe how good it actually is.

Cheers

Lee

NEWBY
08-01-2010, 07:36 AM
After much reading through Ausfish threads & contemplation I have decided to stay with my original plan of getting a Lowrance HDS Fish Finder/GPS Combo unit.

I'm just wondering what would be the best price I would be looking at to purchase a HDS-5 or HDS-7 here in good ol' Oz? With the problems people have been discussing here I'm not game to purchase from OS?

Are there any good prices from sellers out there that anyone is aware of? It's a bugger having to work to a budget.
Mate, its not ALL about price.
50 or a hundred here or there is nothing compared to customer service. Honestly.

Look at the posts with others here that have dealt with GrandMarlin. call him...Pm him an if he is a few bucks away,(not that I am saying you are Pete cause I dont know) PAY THE MONEY cause really really good customer service is not cheap to provide. Look through the posts...You wont find a bad word about him....Read through this thread and look at what I have endured so far. I have fought my own fight with Navico cause my supplier is spineless.

PS The good ship CARNELPYA gets back in the pi$$ tomorrow for water tests next week. Yeehaaaaaaa.
Then I will let you know whats happening with all the dramas

Stido1
08-01-2010, 03:49 PM
Thanx Newby & leelee, you're advice has been taken onboard.

NEWBY
18-01-2010, 07:28 AM
And the SAGA continues.
Got a call from my boat repairer on Friday. ALMOST EVERYTHING back in working order now, New rudders and seats in place, entire fuel system stripped and cleaned, Batteries moved, dinghy davit rewired, new shaft in and both sides re-aligned, new shaft seals in boxes, new port tranny seal in, all oil leaks rectfied, major service done etc etc etc BUT, You guessed it, the MAIN reason for the boat coming out in the first place, to get the NEW TRANSDUCER fitted, has gone south to HELL.

Boys put the boat back in the water and as they went to hook up the NEW TRANSDUCER supplied BY LOWRANCE, the F*****G thing does not fit. Yep, the pins DO NOT line up and they have sent me the wrong F*****g transducer. This is the last insult. So the boat has to come out again. And ANOTHER transducer fitted. I will keep you informed of the outcome as I have now passed the buck back to my supplier. It was mentioned "thats alright we can just cut the cable and put a new plug on" Not on my boat pal.......
To my horror, it was discovered when replacing the last one that rather than run the cable up to the bridge in what would be considered THE CORRECT WAY, my supplier/installer decided it was "easier" just to cut the thing and rejoin it. POOR FORM....If it was considered OK to do this I would suggest the cable would come with that option. IT IS NOT OK as far as I am concerned. You can NEVER totally seal it and stop corrosion once the cable has been cut. NEVER.
Watch this space.....NOW I have the shits on......Now Lowrance are goin to know they have pissed me off.
2010 IS the year that you dont piss me off.....Bad form Lowrance, STILL....AGAIN....Watch your arses.

sagair
20-01-2010, 08:17 AM
It seem Grand Marlin has been a big help, something for us to remember. The lady [Linda Colt U.S.A.] who's contact details I forwarded to you who was highly recommended by some of my friends in the USA as the best thing Lowrance/Navico had going for them has been crushed by Lowrances Service Department manager/s. The link is worth a read. This "I got your money so now go away" attitude from Lowrance makes me wish I bought a H'Bird. It appears service is a low priority at Lowrance.http://bbcboards.zeroforum.com/zerothread/485986-linda-colt-leaves-lowrance-navico

NEWBY
22-01-2010, 07:48 AM
IT's STILL NO DAMN GOOD

Hell Boy
22-01-2010, 08:44 AM
IT's STILL NO DAMN GOOD

Newby, you have had a bad run with Navico. I hope you end up getting this mess sorted, but it is going to be a hard thing to forget, with the money and pain it has cost you.

yanjarra
22-01-2010, 12:51 PM
Newby your story is a shocker. I would be frothing. I really admire your perseverance in getting it sorted though, i think id have thrown my hands in the air by now.

honda900
22-01-2010, 01:25 PM
Newby,

can you explain whats happening with it, I have had Grand Marlin (pete) do some work with me on mine, and so far the initial trials have been good, big test to come tomorrow in deep water but so far 10x better than it was.

Software configuration of all things.

Regards
Honda.

NEWBY
23-01-2010, 07:08 AM
Newby,

can you explain whats happening with it, I have had Grand Marlin (pete) do some work with me on mine, and so far the initial trials have been good, big test to come tomorrow in deep water but so far 10x better than it was.

Software configuration of all things.

Regards
Honda.
In brief, the sounder cuts out and cant read the bottom after I reach 12-13kn. I have replaced the very expensive 1KW Bronze thru hull transducer and at Navicos suggestion, moved it further back. It now sits just to starboard of the port drive shaft. Heres the thing though...Normal cruising at 12kn, I lose bottom....So I burried the nose of the Betram (a very wet thing to do in anything over 20cm waves) and i got the pic back holding bottom. even at that though, going through the turbulent brackish of the North Entrance, the old Navman kept going strong while the $9000 Lowrance cut out. so 2 things here....
1) I cant go round with the nose brried and
2) THE HDS 10 IS A PIECE OF SHIT...
Now the real battle starts...
Oh heres another anomolie, when we stuck a 600w transom mount transducer into the hull, (and it had to shoot through 2" of fibreglass as well) it seemed to work fine.

I rest my case, the HDS 10 IS A PIECE OF SHITand it is not worth $9 never mind $9000....Let the games begin...

Dicko
23-01-2010, 08:30 AM
This has probably been covered, but have you rigged a std transom mount transducer, even temporarily on a pole or something to see if that works ?

Grand_Marlin
23-01-2010, 06:46 PM
Newby,

2 things:

1) Have you selected the correct transducer in the transducer list?

2) Have you pressed [menu] [enter] and adjusted up the sensitivity? You will find the HDS's like to have the sensitivity / gain increased when getting up to speed.

Cheers

Pete

NEWBY
26-01-2010, 07:08 AM
This has probably been covered, but have you rigged a std transom mount transducer, even temporarily on a pole or something to see if that works ?
Done what we could with this mate but have you ever tried to hold a stick in the water at 15kn? And its shaft drive so no can do on the transom mount. We shot one through the hull and it worked better than the Airmar Bronze.

NEWBY
26-01-2010, 07:09 AM
Newby,

2 things:

1) Have you selected the correct transducer in the transducer list?

2) Have you pressed [menu] [enter] and adjusted up the sensitivity? You will find the HDS's like to have the sensitivity / gain increased when getting up to speed.

Cheers

Pete
Done and done mate

NEWBY
26-01-2010, 07:18 AM
Another frustrating weekend on the water ended.
F****G Navico/Airmar.
So when I got the new transducer sent it was inplied that it may be in the wrong place. Midship??? Wrong????
Ok so I had it moved...Another hole in the hull at the "suggestion" of Navico. Lets not chance anything..... Now sits just starboard of the port shaft...Clean water, little or no turbulence. Nothing to interfere with anything. You all know the results of this one....How could we have changed an entire system over (head unit etc) 2 transducers and still get SHIT...
Well I have figured some out...when travelling, if I bury the nose of the boat, low and behold, the sounder comes back to life????????? This would suggest 2 things, 1) that the damn transducer is STILL in a bad spot....Having said that, what or where the hell is a good spot???? If the shipwright cant get it, who can??? and 2) The transducer is NOT the right one for the unit and/or it is a design fault.
SO, I have had enough...Navico get 2 choices only tomorrow....THEY themselves come and sort it out or they refund my 9 grand and I go get a Furuno. 3rd choice is I get legal on their arses and thats just gonna cost everyone shitloads...

Grand_Marlin
26-01-2010, 07:30 AM
Done and done mate

Bugger!

Have you got any pics of the transducer?

Why & Who decided to go with a 1kw transducer over the standard 600w with the Broadband?

Burying the nose to get a fix still suggests air bubbles over the transducer face.

The 1kw transducers are a lot more sensitive than the 600w, and therefore more susceptible to noise from various sources.

What happens at speed when you crank up the sensitivity (press menu then enter to bring up the sensitivity adjustment) to max and then put your noise rejection filter to high?

What happens when you switch the unit to manual instead of auto and play with these same settings?

Cheers

Pete

Grand_Marlin
26-01-2010, 07:45 AM
Is this similar to your installation?

This is the B258 on a 35 Caribbean - hooked to a Raymarine E120 / DSM 300 and works perfectly at speed.

Cheers

Pete

NEWBY
26-01-2010, 01:30 PM
Is this similar to your installation?

This is the B258 on a 35 Caribbean - hooked to a Raymarine E120 / DSM 300 and works perfectly at speed.

Cheers

Pete
Same same in all ways

NEWBY
26-01-2010, 01:34 PM
Bugger!

Have you got any pics of the transducer?None at all mate.

Why & Who decided to go with a 1kw transducer over the standard 600w with the Broadband? I asked for the 1kw becasue i want to go to 1klm depth

Burying the nose to get a fix still suggests air bubbles over the transducer face. Nothing to cause it though. Just some water pickups for toilet etc. They work perfectly so no air there..... Also remember, whee the transducer is, the depth is about 3 feet under ater so should not be any turmoil or air at al atthat depth and certainly not at speed.

The 1kw transducers are a lot more sensitive than the 600w, and therefore more susceptible to noise from various sources.

What happens at speed when you crank up the sensitivity (press menu then enter to bring up the sensitivity adjustment) to max and then put your noise rejection filter to high? Screen fills with clutter

What happens when you switch the unit to manual instead of auto and play with these same settings? Same.

Cheers

Pete
See above in red mate

bronsonwinston
26-01-2010, 01:46 PM
Bigger the boat bigger the problems...

Grand_Marlin
26-01-2010, 02:10 PM
See above in red mate

RE: Water pickups.

I know the toilet pickup and outlet are directly forward of the transducer and on the port side (the 3 Caribbean 35's I have done)
In regards to where the transducer is mounted, are they directly in the line of the transducer, or even closer to the keel of the boat?

Do they still have the strainers over them?

Cheers

Pete

NEWBY
27-01-2010, 06:59 AM
RE: Water pickups.

I know the toilet pickup and outlet are directly forward of the transducer and on the port side (the 3 Caribbean 35's I have done)
In regards to where the transducer is mounted, are they directly in the line of the transducer, or even closer to the keel of the boat?

Do they still have the strainers over them?

Cheers

Pete
Next time I am under it or it comes out of the water again i will check. Ya reckon that could be the cause? I know the strainers are definately still on.

leelee
27-01-2010, 03:33 PM
Shame about these issues Newby and I would have thought that the installer/s would have had this sorted by now. Are they approved Lowrance/Navico installers? If not were they recommended by Lowrance/Navico?

If you are either idling or going at a slow speed does the sounder read clearly?

Cheers

Lee

Grand_Marlin
27-01-2010, 07:50 PM
Next time I am under it or it comes out of the water again i will check. Ya reckon that could be the cause? I know the strainers are definately still on.

There be 'ya problem.
Those strainers aerate badly.

Take them off and re gelcoat the holes so as no water gets in to the hull laminate.

While you are at it, run a bead of sika around both skin fittings for the toilet to sort of chamfer the edges and get the water flowing over them better.

This goes hand in hand with why the transducer works better at slow speed and when the nose is buried.

Cheers

Pete

NEWBY
28-01-2010, 05:28 AM
Shame about these issues Newby and I would have thought that the installer/s would have had this sorted by now. Are they approved Lowrance/Navico installers? If not were they recommended by Lowrance/Navico?

If you are either idling or going at a slow speed does the sounder read clearly?

Cheers

Lee
Yeah mate all official resellers and installers.
slower the boat, better and clearer the read.

NEWBY
28-01-2010, 05:32 AM
There be 'ya problem.
Those strainers aerate badly.

Take them off and re gelcoat the holes so as no water gets in to the hull laminate.

While you are at it, run a bead of sika around both skin fittings for the toilet to sort of chamfer the edges and get the water flowing over them better.

This goes hand in hand with why the transducer works better at slow speed and when the nose is buried.

Cheers

Pete
Mate I have to tell ya, if your right here, you just know there are going to be some good old fashioned, right royal anal insertions of large un-lubed Pineapples happening all the way from Shipwrites to Navico.
That will make room for the HDS 10 unit to be also placed in the passage were the "sun dont shine"
Thanks for your help. I will keep you informed.

lee8sec
28-01-2010, 07:05 AM
Newby, sell tickets to the "insertion show" you would probably make enough to pay for the hds10. ;D Leigh

Grand_Marlin
28-01-2010, 07:13 AM
If I'm wrong, do I get a pineapple too :-/

Just a shame I'm not there to see exactly what is going on.

While you are going, make sure there are no other obstructions in front of the transducer - i.e., bad gelcoat chips, other skin fittings, any other fixtures etc etc.

Cheers

Pete

leelee
28-01-2010, 07:44 AM
Yeah mate all official resellers and installers.
slower the boat, better and clearer the read.

Definately 100% interference then.

If the installer is actually a navico retailer and/or an approved navicio installer and not just someone in the industry who can get the product then I would be seriously looking at them and not navico as majority of the issues seem to be about this 1kw transducer and installation of the products, well only from reading what i see on here.

If you purchased the goods direct from this retailer then surely they should have the pull pull navico to sort out the issues. I know my retailer does and he has gone out of his way to sort out teething issues for me and even replaced a unit and dropped it off to me at no extra charge;D If you bought the units from a navico dealer and took them to your own installer, for what ever reasons, then possibly this could be the cause of majority of the issues. The lack of expereince is installing very sensitive equipments such as the 1kw transducer. Pretty much the same when you buy a new car, get a new cd player installed by your local auto leccy guy then it plays up. You can't go back to the manufacturer of the car or the new cd player if it plays up. You go back to the installer to get it sorted. Not having a shot at you but frustration often leads to blaming the wrong people and I myslef have had this happen before.

I assume the radar and the GPS are all working AOK?

Can't wait to see it all up and running and get to see some amazing screen shots of what his unit can do in the blue. Whens its all working you will be blown away. Take some shots of the install of the helm as well if possible.

Cheers
Lee

Midgyfisher
28-01-2010, 07:35 PM
Grand Marlin, I have a new HDS5m on a new boat sometimes the gps will turn off and reboot, couple of times in a few minutes. Is a bitch when on autopilot. I was thinking maybe it loses the satts or something. Appreciate your thoughts.

Grand_Marlin
28-01-2010, 09:29 PM
Does it have the latest software update?

If it does and it is still doing it, then it will be a trip to the doctor.
It isn't losing satellites.

Cheers

Pete

Apollo
29-01-2010, 06:17 AM
Pete

Kudos to you mate for trying to sort out Newby's problem (sounder that is. The physiological ones are beyond help!;D). It really illustrates that we need to shop around for the right supplier/installer just as hard as we do for the right price. Not suggesting that Newbs took the cheap option in this case, but it seems that he has been let down by the skills/attitude of the people who did the job and were suppose to know what they were doing. If he knew then, what he knows now, I bet he would have chose a different path/people.

Well done on your efforts and I hope next time your on the water, your rod bends hard and often as part of the good karma you have earnt.

Steve

NEWBY
29-01-2010, 06:49 AM
If I'm wrong, do I get a pineapple too :-/

Just a shame I'm not there to see exactly what is going on.

While you are going, make sure there are no other obstructions in front of the transducer - i.e., bad gelcoat chips, other skin fittings, any other fixtures etc etc.

Cheers

Pete
Nah Pete, pineapples are for people who I have paid to do a job that they are incapable of actually doing and should have told me so as a duty of disclosure. Apparently Ian from Navico is up in a couple of weeks so he and I are taking a little boat trip.
BUT having said that, if your into that sort a thing mate, I could always save
ya 1;D

NEWBY
29-01-2010, 06:58 AM
Definately 100% interference then.

If the installer is actually a navico retailer and/or an approved navicio installer and not just someone in the industry who can get the product then I would be seriously looking at them and not navico as majority of the issues seem to be about this 1kw transducer and installation of the products, well only from reading what i see on here.

If you purchased the goods direct from this retailer then surely they should have the pull pull navico to sort out the issues. I know my retailer does and he has gone out of his way to sort out teething issues for me and even replaced a unit and dropped it off to me at no extra charge;D If you bought the units from a navico dealer and took them to your own installer, for what ever reasons, then possibly this could be the cause of majority of the issues. The lack of expereince is installing very sensitive equipments such as the 1kw transducer. Pretty much the same when you buy a new car, get a new cd player installed by your local auto leccy guy then it plays up. You can't go back to the manufacturer of the car or the new cd player if it plays up. You go back to the installer to get it sorted. Not having a shot at you but frustration often leads to blaming the wrong people and I myslef have had this happen before.

I assume the radar and the GPS are all working AOK?

Can't wait to see it all up and running and get to see some amazing screen shots of what his unit can do in the blue. Whens its all working you will be blown away. Take some shots of the install of the helm as well if possible.

Cheers
Lee
Navico dealer for sure. They installed the equipment and the shipwrite did the transducer. Nothing wrong with the job mate. Since the new transducer went in, I have a better picture and better bottom holding but it is still not right. he radar is also having a hissy fit and has 2 blips on the screen that wont go away. I of course went for the broadband option. I am definately having PRODUCT issues mate not install issues. I mentioned before that Ian from Navico is due up in a couple of weeks so see if he can sort it out. If indeed it is an isue with the placement of the transducer, TWICE, then harsh words will be spoken with the possibility of blood loss occuring to someone at some stage.

NEWBY
29-01-2010, 07:02 AM
Pete

Kudos to you mate for trying to sort out Newby's problem (sounder that is. The physiological ones are beyond help!;D). It really illustrates that we need to shop around for the right supplier/installer just as hard as we do for the right price. Not suggesting that Newbs took the cheap option in this case, but it seems that he has been let down by the skills/attitude of the people who did the job and were suppose to know what they were doing. If he knew then, what he knows now, I bet he would have chose a different path/people.

Well done on your efforts and I hope next time your on the water, your rod bends hard and often as part of the good karma you have earnt.

Steve
I bet your wrong on all points Steve.
Not an installation problem bud. Unless it is transducer placement and even then, I definately had a bung transducer to start with. Supplier and installer are fine. I took the LOCAL choice not the cheap option. I always try to practice what I preach. You just better hope I get all this $hit sorted before end of Feb mate.;)

Apollo
29-01-2010, 07:34 AM
I bet your wrong on all points Steve.
Not an installation problem bud. Unless it is transducer placement and even then, I definately had a bung transducer to start with. Supplier and installer are fine. I took the LOCAL choice not the cheap option. I always try to practice what I preach. You just better hope I get all this $hit sorted before end of Feb mate.;)


I stand by my original post that it is kudos to Pete for trying to sort this out for you. If it is partially the placement, then we are both right;D.

And yes, get this sh!t sorted before the end of Feb. We expect a high standard!;)

Steve

Midgyfisher
29-01-2010, 01:43 PM
Does it have the latest software update?

If it does and it is still doing it, then it will be a trip to the doctor.
It isn't losing satellites.

Cheers

Pete


Hey Pete, Unit was purchased in November 09 , thought it would be ok for software. Another question what type of memory card do you need to save waypoints onto?

Cheers Steve.

NEWBY
30-01-2010, 10:08 AM
I stand by my original post that it is kudos to Pete for trying to sort this out for you. If it is partially the placement, then we are both right;D.

And yes, get this sh!t sorted before the end of Feb. We expect a high standard!;)

Steve
Kudos my bum hole Steve (got in trouble for swearing so I am toning it down somewhat:angel:)
Pete:tekst-toppie: deserves a HUGE Newby HUG http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_67.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYAU)as he has been a great help and asked questions that should have been asked by Navico, Installers and sellers alike. [/URL]







[URL="http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb114_ZNxpt484YYAU&utm_id=7922"]http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb114&pp=ZNxpt484YYAU (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYAU)

trymyluck
30-01-2010, 01:35 PM
Pete:tekst-toppie: deserves a HUGE Newby HUG http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_67.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYAU)as he has been a great help and asked questions that should have been asked by Navico, Installers and sellers alike.


Now that would have me a tad nervous!!!!!!!!!!;D;D;D

Apollo
30-01-2010, 03:06 PM
Pete:tekst-toppie: deserves a HUGE Newby HUG http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_67.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxpt484YYAU)as he has been a great help and asked questions that should have been asked by Navico, Installers and sellers alike.




You are a worry. The thought of your great painted frame coming towards with arms stretched wide, clasping a pineapple in one hand is a sight I want erased from all levels of consciousness:o.

Glad you come around to my thinking from my earlier post re supplier and installer. They should have been asking the questions, not you. Should be an interesting discussion over a jack or twelve:).

When are you likely to find out if Pete's latest thought is a fix?

Steve

NEWBY
30-01-2010, 10:04 PM
You are a worry. The thought of your great painted frame coming towards with arms stretched wide, clasping a pineapple in one hand is a sight I want erased from all levels of consciousness:o.

Glad you come around to my thinking from my earlier post re supplier and installer. They should have been asking the questions, not you. Should be an interesting discussion over a jack or twelve:).

When are you likely to find out if Pete's latest thought is a fix?

Steve
Ahhhh fark mate who knows?
When I get out to 250mtrs +
When Ian from Lowrance/Navico comes for s drive with me.
When I get a new manager...Yep. I got rid of another....
When the farkwitts leave me the fark alone.. (like thatll happen)
When hell freezes over...
I am half way through the 3rd bottle of Pinot Noir for the night and really dont give a "bum excretion" (I am on a good behaviour bond...sorta ) at this point in time. Could care less if Garrett banned fishing at this point. Carnelpya could sink and I would probably just laugh.
Faunicate the faunicating faunicators.
Faunicate them all...Faunicating ladies wee things....

troutcatcher
03-02-2010, 08:03 PM
I have also have had, and heard of many problems with Lowrance.

**I bought a 110c, kept losing the bottom on the sonar. The unit was replaced.... took about 6 weeks though and still had it's kwirks

** My brother bought a 112c, he had memory card slot problems and water leaking issue. The unit was replaced..... took about 4 weeks to get the new one, but no probs after

** A mate bought 112c, he had problems with one of the card slot not reading the card. The unit was replaced..... took around 4 weeks, no probs, but he dosn't go fishing that much now

** I bought a HDS 10 last year, would not load the Navonics map, would not power up with card in the slot, could not transfer marks on or off GPS via card...

Navico received my faulty sounder on 18-01-09, they looked at it and it was decided it would be replaced.... However, they had no stock!!!!

On the 02-02-10 had a call from my local dealer, It was here!!!!!
went and got it, and guess what.... Navico sent me a HDS 10m, GPS only.

I contacted Navico and informed them of the mistake, and..... u guessed it they had no stock to replace it with. "we just sent them all out yesterday"

So my 3 & a half grand has got me and my Haines 773 weeks on the dry... and naturally the weather is down....


NEVER AGAIN

NEWBY
11-02-2010, 06:54 AM
Well it just gets better.
Still havent heard from my guys in Gladstone when the rep fro Navico is coming up. It was meant to be about now but no word. Nothing. Zip....
Going out wide (weather permitting) at the end of Feb so will know if ALL the other problems are fixed. Will have to do the NEW update this week as well.
I am starting to think that the supplier is fast becomming a big part of the problem and as such will become the top focus of my 2010 $hit list

modo
15-02-2010, 10:41 AM
Mate I just threw out my copy of the new lowrance catalogue I was planning on getting the new HDS5 with the lot but I think I will go HUMMINBIRD. Mate I hope it gets sorted this is over 6 months of pain.

P.S I know a good gun shop.

NEWBY
16-02-2010, 04:50 AM
Mate I just threw out my copy of the new lowrance catalogue I was planning on getting the new HDS5 with the lot but I think I will go HUMMINBIRD. Mate I hope it gets sorted this is over 6 months of pain.

P.S I know a good gun shop.
It is getting very frustrating.
Old mate from Lowrance was meant to come up and go for a run with me...nothing....No call from my local guy...Nothing....
Time to start shopping non local if this keeps up...What does it matter??? I shop local to have a point of contact if something goes wrong...Well it did and they have done bugger all really except come and tell me its stuffed...:'(
Got my dough...dont care anymore...They wont get anymore...

honda900
16-02-2010, 01:39 PM
Newby,

start taking some photos of the issues and publicising the problems.

Regards
HOnda.

leelee
17-02-2010, 12:27 PM
Mate I just threw out my copy of the new lowrance catalogue I was planning on getting the new HDS5 with the lot but I think I will go HUMMINBIRD. Mate I hope it gets sorted this is over 6 months of pain.

P.S I know a good gun shop.

That's crazy talk.

I can put you in contact with more people who are happy with Lowrance HDS units then you can find that are not.

Without disrespecting Newby, you cannot believe everything you read on the net and Newby will admit that majority of the problems are fitting related and not unit/product related, well that's the impression I get from re-reading all the issues.

I would be very interested to hear the outcome of this, good or bad, with honest feedback from all sides.

Cheers

Lee

NEWBY
18-02-2010, 05:40 AM
Its only 1 of the the sounder problems that is related to fitting mate. The rest is bad product/software. Look at all the updates already...Major updates. If they wanted me and thousands of others to be the test crash dummies they should offer up a massive discounted product, not full price and when we work out their problems, sell more units to more people at a cheaper price....Thats just plain wrong.
And truthfully, I would cop the crap product if they were on to it and not fighting with me. If they just told me the truth and said "yes, we have had a few problems with that" and just sorted it.
6 months now and we still havent sorted out the first problem properly.

so no disrespect taken at all Lee but to set the record right, no, its not mainly fitting...

leelee
18-02-2010, 08:11 AM
...


Its only 1 of the the sounder problems that is related to fitting mate. The rest is bad product/software. Look at all the updates already...Major updates. If they wanted me and thousands of others to be the test crash dummies they should offer up a massive discounted product, not full price and when we work out their problems, sell more units to more people at a cheaper price....Thats just plain wrong.
And truthfully, I would cop the crap product if they were on to it and not fighting with me. If they just told me the truth and said "yes, we have had a few problems with that" and just sorted it.
6 months now and we still havent sorted out the first problem properly.

so no disrespect taken at all Lee but to set the record right, no, its not mainly fitting...

Mate that’s all good as I just thought that this thing had dragged on for a while now so I re-read the entire post knowing what we all do now.

Once thing that still baffles me is that you bought the products from a navico supplier but went to your installer for installation and they also sell Navico products. Why not go with him directly and then they can back you with Navico as they are a supplier and fitter.


September, Boat back in, test drive, all seems ok just need to do some educational reading and fine tuning on the unit to get it all performing right.
Agnes meet and greet comes, Bertram leaves Gladstone and heads for Fitzroy. Here I will cut the long story short. The sounder cuts out at speed, around 12 kn. No bottom. So I play with settings. Reset the unit. blah blah. No joy. ...

What caused this problem. Was it that the unit needed the software update as required or was it the original location of where the transducer was mounted or something else?

Whose idea was it that you needed the 1kw transducer. Did you want it originally or was it suggested by Navico that you needed it?


Then I realise that the external GPS antennae has not been fitted. So on the phone. Waiting on a special T piece apparently. ...

The fitter should have advised you that the antennae was not fitted so its not a product fault.



Boys put the boat back in the water and as they went to hook up the NEW TRANSDUCER supplied BY LOWRANCE, the F*****G thing does not fit. Yep, the pins DO NOT line up and they have sent me the wrong F*****g transducer. This is the last insult. So the boat has to come out again. And ANOTHER transducer fitted. I will keep you informed of the outcome as I have now passed the buck back to my supplier. It was mentioned "thats alright we can just cut the cable and put a new plug on" Not on my boat pal....... ...

What was the issue here? I have seen heaps of people try to plug the transducer cables into the power socket on the rear of the unit’s and think they have a dud product when the pins don’t line up but its simply been an error of which socket to put the lug in. Who said cut the cable?


Oh heres another anomolie, when we stuck a 600w transom mount transducer into the hull, (and it had to shoot through 2" of fibreglass as well) it seemed to work fine.

If the 600kw transducer worked fine shooting through the hull then its 100% location or a sensitivity issue with the 1kw transducer and proves it’s not the unit malfunctioning.

The issue with the radar could it be picking up return from something on your boat like maybe outrigger or something else. Does the phantom blip basically follow you around all day and keep the same distance and position from your boat?

Mate this is not an attack on you so please don’t think it is. I guess its more of a summary of what’s happened so far, what’s been fixed and how you fixed it and or what was the actual problem and how the supplier resolved it. This would help possibly other people suffering similar issues. People might be able to follow your issues and see how you solved them and you might be able to help other people out whom have similar issues and you might be able fast track or point them in the right direction of how they can get the issues resolved.

I totally understand that the money outlayed and time wasted on this would have done anyone’s head in and the lack of fishing time would have done mine in.

Cheers

Lee

modo
18-02-2010, 08:46 AM
That's crazy talk.

I can put you in contact with more people who are happy with Lowrance HDS units then you can find that are not.

Without disrespecting Newby, you cannot believe everything you read on the net and Newby will admit that majority of the problems are fitting related and not unit/product related, well that's the impression I get from re-reading all the issues.

I would be very interested to hear the outcome of this, good or bad, with honest feedback from all sides.

Cheers

Lee


That's fine there would be alot of happy customer's. But I was only going to be spending $2000 not way over $9000 and if by chance I had a problem and got ignored would I be happy. :-/

battler1
18-02-2010, 11:21 AM
leelee you are on drugs .

joe






Mate that’s all good as I just thought that this thing had dragged on for a while now so I re-read the entire post knowing what we all do now.

Once thing that still baffles me is that you bought the products from a navico supplier but went to your installer for installation and they also sell Navico products. Why not go with him directly and then they can back you with Navico as they are a supplier and fitter.



What caused this problem. Was it that the unit needed the software update as required or was it the original location of where the transducer was mounted or something else?

Whose idea was it that you needed the 1kw transducer. Did you want it originally or was it suggested by Navico that you needed it?



The fitter should have advised you that the antennae was not fitted so its not a product fault.




What was the issue here? I have seen heaps of people try to plug the transducer cables into the power socket on the rear of the unit’s and think they have a dud product when the pins don’t line up but its simply been an error of which socket to put the lug in. Who said cut the cable?



If the 600kw transducer worked fine shooting through the hull then its 100% location or a sensitivity issue with the 1kw transducer and proves it’s not the unit malfunctioning.

The issue with the radar could it be picking up return from something on your boat like maybe outrigger or something else. Does the phantom blip basically follow you around all day and keep the same distance and position from your boat?

Mate this is not an attack on you so please don’t think it is. I guess its more of a summary of what’s happened so far, what’s been fixed and how you fixed it and or what was the actual problem and how the supplier resolved it. This would help possibly other people suffering similar issues. People might be able to follow your issues and see how you solved them and you might be able to help other people out whom have similar issues and you might be able fast track or point them in the right direction of how they can get the issues resolved.

I totally understand that the money outlayed and time wasted on this would have done anyone’s head in and the lack of fishing time would have done mine in.

Cheers

Lee

leelee
18-02-2010, 12:12 PM
That's fine there would be alot of happy customer's. But I was only going to be spending $2000 not way over $9000 and if by chance I had a problem and got ignored would I be happy. :-/

Totally understand and I am sympathetic to the fact that Newby has been 6 months without the use of his gear and the amount of money he has spent is above the average punter, but i was curious to know what part of all these faults are actually based fair and square with navico and not the installer? You can't ignore certain things and think they will go away, but once again this is one persons experience and quite a good scenario to be in the public eye.

I personally would like to hear more of what has gone on as there is the possibility that more people might be able to help Newby out, like Grand_marlin has or even point him in the right direction.

Would you like me to post up all my positive experiences with Navico and how they have gone above and beyond what would be expected or are we only interested in negative coverage?

Cheers

Lee

leelee
18-02-2010, 12:13 PM
leelee you are on drugs .

joe

Why is this mate? What gives you that idea?

Cheers

Lee

NEWBY
18-02-2010, 02:18 PM
Mate that’s all good as I just thought that this thing had dragged on for a while now so I re-read the entire post knowing what we all do now.

Once thing that still baffles me is that you bought the products from a navico supplier but went to your installer for installation and they also sell Navico products. Why not go with him directly and then they can back you with Navico as they are a supplier and fitter. Supplier fitted the unit but shipwrite fitted transducer. Then my guy refitted the new transducer. Interesting that rather than run the cable from transducer to bridge, they cut the wire and rejoined it...THAT didnt happen the second time...But apparently that is standard practice.



What caused this problem. Was it that the unit needed the software update as required or was it the original location of where the transducer was mounted or something else? Nah, transducer was stuffed but we moved it as well to make doubly sure. Done 2 updates...Another one downloading as I type.

Whose idea was it that you needed the 1kw transducer. Did you want it originally or was it suggested by Navico that you needed it? I like to billfish hence I need something that will show me baitschools down 250m + and nice big arches at 500-700m a 600w wont do that.



The fitter should have advised you that the antennae was not fitted so its not a product fault. And it still isnt. They were not aware, and Navico certainly dont make it public knowledge, that you also need a special "T" piece to make this work. They dont tell you that in the brochure mate. Oh, and Navico did not have these special T pieces either. That arrived in December...




What was the issue here? I have seen heaps of people try to plug the transducer cables into the power socket on the rear of the unit’s and think they have a dud product when the pins don’t line up but its simply been an error of which socket to put the lug in. Who said cut the cable? See above...Lazy installer I reckon. And they knew which lug went in which socket.



If the 600kw transducer worked fine shooting through the hull then its 100% location or a sensitivity issue with the 1kw transducer and proves it’s not the unit malfunctioning. Incorrect statement. The 600w was positioned within inches of the 1kw. The transducer was definately faulty.

The issue with the radar could it be picking up return from something on your boat like maybe outrigger or something else. Does the phantom blip basically follow you around all day and keep the same distance and position from your boat? Same same mate...Explained in an earlier post. Yes phantom blip follows me and yes it could be an outrigger. Not according to Lowrance/Navico. They say it cant/shouldnt/doesnt do that as it is broadband etc etc. We havent even started on that one yet.

Mate this is not an attack on you so please don’t think it is. I guess its more of a summary of what’s happened so far, what’s been fixed and how you fixed it and or what was the actual problem and how the supplier resolved it. This would help possibly other people suffering similar issues. People might be able to follow your issues and see how you solved them and you might be able to help other people out whom have similar issues and you might be able fast track or point them in the right direction of how they can get the issues resolved. Easiest way to resolve it is to buy a Furuno I reckon.

I totally understand that the money outlayed and time wasted on this would have done anyone’s head in and the lack of fishing time would have done mine in. Yes another 5 weeks on the hard over Xmas due to poor quality supplies, suppliers and their services. And still not right.

Cheers

Lee




Should be cleared up now? See above in blue Lee...

bluefin59
18-02-2010, 02:30 PM
This unit of newbys is far from the only dodgy unit, i was interested in buying a unit myself because i like the way it works when they work but there are plenty of horror stories with these H.D units on the net have a good honest look around . I spoke to a dealer here on the northide of brisbane and he is tossing up whether to give up his dealership because the amount of units being returned ,its not rocket science fitting a sounder i fitted my furuno and it hasnt needed any updates and has worked faultlessly for 2 years . I need a new gps and the lowrance fitted with down and side scan would have filled my needs but not at this stage now tooo many problems from these things. Lee i am glad yours is right but lets see how you go after a couple years ,they shouldn't release this stuff without a proper trial period and research WE shouldnt have to be the testers ...matt

modo
18-02-2010, 03:29 PM
LEE to be on the safe side I'll still buy the Humminbird it's been around with side scan alittle longer so I think they have ironed out their problems, but I could still get a crook one nothing is perfect.

Dicko
18-02-2010, 03:40 PM
Far from being an average internet jockey and following the mantra of what I use is good, and what others use is cr*p. I prefer to be a realist. When looking around the US sites & speaking to retailers, sure you see problems, but in no way could you call it disproportionate to the amout being sold. Most retailers have these walking out the door. Other suppliers are hurting.

For some balance, I fitted a HDS 10 to a new boat 3 mths ago. It's early days but now have 60 hours up no probs. From my experience, lemons in any product seem to show up pretty soon. Besides being a great sounder/gps combo for regular fishing, just last weekend it was still holding depth at a shade over 60mph with the std transom mount transducer.

I added the structurescan last month and it's also working well.

All straight out of the box, as it should be, (and as it is for the vast majority of users).

If it was lost or stolen, I'd buy another tommorow.

and what's the whinge with software updates ?/ crikey, the computer I'm typing on is asking to update crap all the time. Even my stupidly expensive software for work has more upgrades than a politician's travel itinerary.

I see it as a good thing we can update this gear so easily these days.

I know Newby has his problems, and I cant see that ending in anything other than tears. (I should I say 'more' tears ?). There's 3 installers involved, plus Navico as the supplier. Most issues sound like they are or have been related to the location of the transducer and initially installing a faulty one. No one is singley responsible for the job, so no one is singley responsible for sorting it out.

Rightly, or wrongly, each will pass the buck.

leelee
18-02-2010, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the reply Newby.

A lot of the info you have posted will help keep the bandwagon guys on the straight and narrow I think as it has confirmed a few things.

1. The HDS unit is not defective and is in good working order.

2. Who in their right mind would ct the transducer cable and join it, that’s just crazy its good you picked that up.

3. The external aerial requiring a T piece is always and has always been required if you are networking through NMEA. It’s the only way to use extra ancillaries and it’s the only way to get the data across multiple units ( excepting Ethernet which is ot always applicable or a viable option ). The HDS units have an internal aerial, does it work even though it flush mounted in dash? I know it works in the bows of bass boats mounted in behind anchor wells and under the tup skin of the hull.

4. So the issue with the wrong transducer being sent was the issue of trying to be plugged into the wrong socket. That won’t be the first or last time that happens mate as its more common then not.

5. The location of the 1kw transducer I think is the reason its not working correctly and or the fact that it is such a sensitive piece of equipment as you proved the 600w was perfect and worked correctly. For the record though the 600w transducer does have the ability to return soundings in the range you want though.

6. The radar issue is an interesting one and possibly think it could be a simple setting but I understand that its not really the highest priority in the scheme of things.

Thanks for taking the time out to answer the questions and by the look of it progress has been made and I understand your frustrations as I am building a house and I think you will agree I don’t need to say anymore.

I also wish I lived a lot closer as I would have easily offered to come over and have a look and try to sort out the issues as sometimes the more eyes on the issues the quicker it can be fixed.

I don’t think there is much I can do from down here but if there is let me know as I am more then happy to help out with providing my units settings and config etc for you to compare against.

Cheers

Lee

honda900
18-02-2010, 04:56 PM
Dicko,

do you fish fresh or salt?

Have you had your unit at speed in Salt over 60mtrs deep, do you have any photos, particularly of fish at speed on the unit?

Have you ever noticed that the unit changes from a very detail bottom view, when you get on the plane?

do you have any photos of this?

Just asking cause I see that that the software is doing too much filtering, while Grand Marlin has helped me (thanks pete) to force the unit to hold the bottom in most situations, when I am moving between spots or returning on my drift, the detail changes on the unit very clearly.

I dont have a photo of it but will take one next time out, but to try to explain it, in the standard HDS colour scheme, you will see the bottom in light brown, very clearly. When you are on the move that changes at speed to show a darker colour with light brown.

Now it could be my hull, and I dont deny that, however I have an in hull and a transom mount transducer, both are displaying the same issues, transom mount is worst.

I would be keen if anyone can post a picture of their HDS unit at 33kph or greater, showing both from a stand still (detailed) to up to speed, in 50 meters or more of water, particularly going over some fish. (maybe we should have a challenge to see who can get a clear picture of fish at speed in deep water). What it will show is the changes in the detail level when you come up to speed.

I also have an LMS527IGPS that exhibits the same issues and suspect that there is a flaw in the digital signal processing code.

Regards
Honda.

leelee
18-02-2010, 05:11 PM
This unit of newbys is far from the only dodgy unit, i was interested in buying a unit myself because i like the way it works when they work but there are plenty of horror stories with these H.D units on the net have a good honest look around . I spoke to a dealer here on the northide of brisbane and he is tossing up whether to give up his dealership because the amount of units being returned ,its not rocket science fitting a sounder i fitted my furuno and it hasnt needed any updates and has worked faultlessly for 2 years . I need a new gps and the lowrance fitted with down and side scan would have filled my needs but not at this stage now tooo many problems from these things. Lee i am glad yours is right but lets see how you go after a couple years ,they shouldn't release this stuff without a proper trial period and research WE shouldnt have to be the testers ...matt

Mate I understand that but for every dodgy unit there are more that don't have faults then there are that do. Seriously though you can't believe everything you read on the net. There are normally bad reviews and issues posted on the net but where is all the good feedback? You normally do not get that as everyone remembers bad press. Why waste your time when something works correctly as its working correctly so there is no issue.

I will 100% guarantee you that the units returned are a small amount when compared against the units sold. Bass Boat Central has a good forum on Lowrance and there are heaps of anglers there that are happy with their units. I have had issues in the past with some units, but navico have sorted them quickly and either fixed or replaced them within a week.

Its not rocket science to hook them up but the updates have nothing to do with fitting a sounder. What would make you say that for? And before it is mentioned that there releases are for fixing errors and mistakes etc take a read of this thread as it proves that theory incorrect as well -

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=160686

Also whilst on the subject of updates, if Furuno just offered new technology for side scan and down scan but told existing customers “sorry you will have to buy new units” I am pretty sure existing customers would be upset and angry. The same goes for Humminbird customers. They now have a downloaded update that enables down scan. Imagine if they had to buy a new unit for them to receive the new functionality. Regular updates keep the functionality of unit ticking over and improving, which is far more then I can say for some manufacturers.

I have had Lowrance products for a while now and my LCX unit and LMS units work fine and had not probs what so ever and have exceeded 2 eays use.

The main reason I believe majority of sounder issues occur is travelling. Its ok when you flush mooun tin dash etc but when that is not an option I ebleive its better to not travel with the units connected. My units go in a soft sided carry bag for extra protection and are connected and disconnected at the ramp. Its just that little bit extra that I believe can prolong the life of a unit as it is not bouncing around more then what it needs to.

If you live in the local Brisbane area and want to have a look at it all working then give me a yell as its a lot o f money to spend and its hard to be able to get out o the water and see how things work, because when in the store on demo mode everything always looks so good.

Cheers

Lee

leelee
18-02-2010, 05:12 PM
LEE to be on the safe side I'll still buy the Humminbird it's been around with side scan alittle longer so I think they have ironed out their problems, but I could still get a crook one nothing is perfect.

Mate that’s fine. Your choice of brand is yours to make as it is your hard $'s that go towards it. However just a search on the net as there is a South African angler who tests both Lowrance unit side by side and Humminbird out of the same boat over the same bit of structure and there are some noticeable differences.

If you live in the local Brisbane area and want to have a look at it all working then give me a yell as its a lot o f money to spend and its hard to be able to get out o the water and see how things work, because when in the store on demo mode everything always looks so good.

Cheers

Lee

leelee
18-02-2010, 05:21 PM
Far from being an average internet jockey and following the mantra of what I use is good, and what others use is cr*p. I prefer to be a realist. When looking around the US sites & speaking to retailers, sure you see problems, but in no way could you call it disproportionate to the amout being sold. Most retailers have these walking out the door. Other suppliers are hurting.

For some balance, I fitted a HDS 10 to a new boat 3 mths ago. It's early days but now have 60 hours up no probs. From my experience, lemons in any product seem to show up pretty soon. Besides being a great sounder/gps combo for regular fishing, just last weekend it was still holding depth at a shade over 60mph with the std transom mount transducer.

I added the structurescan last month and it's also working well.

All straight out of the box, as it should be, (and as it is for the vast majority of users).

If it was lost or stolen, I'd buy another tommorow.

and what's the whinge with software updates ?/ crikey, the computer I'm typing on is asking to update crap all the time. Even my stupidly expensive software for work has more upgrades than a politician's travel itinerary.

I see it as a good thing we can update this gear so easily these days.

I know Newby has his problems, and I cant see that ending in anything other than tears. (I should I say 'more' tears ?). There's 3 installers involved, plus Navico as the supplier. Most issues sound like they are or have been related to the location of the transducer and initially installing a faulty one. No one is singley responsible for the job, so no one is singley responsible for sorting it out.

Rightly, or wrongly, each will pass the buck.

Mate could not agree more.

Hang on is that a bit of positive feedback ;D

The update issue is old news and been done to death. Like Dicko said you PC receives updates, even the new age digital Tv’s receive updates without you really even knowing.

I to would replace my units again with Lowrance and I have just sold my HDS7 and am upgrading to a HDS8.

Dicko once I get the HDS8 up and running I wouldn’t mind running some setting by you as I think there maybe some differences with HDS7 and HDS8 for contract ability etc as the HDS8 screen is bigger and more pixels.

Cheers

Lee

Dicko
18-02-2010, 07:23 PM
Honda.

I fish mostly salt. Occasional fresh.

I haven't noticed a transition in detail from a slow to speed. Mind you, I haven't really looked. If fishing or looking for fish I'm slow speed. If travelling I wind it up and just use the sounder to keep an eye on depth.

I don't know at what point these or any other sounders become gradually ineffective at marking fish at speed. Someone more cluey would know the correct maths behind it, but using PROMASS* figures if you were doing 40mph you're probably covering 10m in between the sounder signal going down, then coming back up with a result. You'd need to travelling over a huge bait school or something like a whale to see a result.

I can't get pics of 60m unless I run 50 nm out the other side of the reef. Most of my inshore stuff is less than 20. Mostly creek & rivers of about 3 or 4. Was out in 40 the other day, it looked OK

I don't have any pics at speed but will wizz some off. I'll also do that sonar log thing. I haven't played with that yet. Should be heading out this weekend if the rain drops from torrential to at least just heavy.

Lee, will do. I don't know if they have more adjustments, but the 8 has more buttons that the 7. lol



*PROMASS = Pulled Right Outa My Ass.

NEWBY
19-02-2010, 06:15 AM
Thanks for the reply Newby.

A lot of the info you have posted will help keep the bandwagon guys on the straight and narrow I think as it has confirmed a few things.

1. The HDS unit is not defective and is in good working order.Lee, the unit is faulty it seems. hence the radar problem...Lowrance also think its a setting...Its on AUTO...The denied that there was a problem until I sent them pics. Imagine that???

2. Who in their right mind would ct the transducer cable and join it, that’s just crazy its good you picked that up. Apparently common practice on flybridge installations

3. The external aerial requiring a T piece is always and has always been required if you are networking through NMEA. It’s the only way to use extra ancillaries and it’s the only way to get the data across multiple units ( excepting Ethernet which is ot always applicable or a viable option ). The HDS units have an internal aerial, does it work even though it flush mounted in dash? I know it works in the bows of bass boats mounted in behind anchor wells and under the tup skin of the hull. Not networking anything.

4. So the issue with the wrong transducer being sent was the issue of trying to be plugged into the wrong socket. That won’t be the first or last time that happens mate as its more common then not.No, bent pins apparently

5. The location of the 1kw transducer I think is the reason its not working correctly and or the fact that it is such a sensitive piece of equipment as you proved the 600w was perfect and worked correctly. For the record though the 600w transducer does have the ability to return soundings in the range you want though. Moved the damn thing and same result. It currently sits in 3 feet of water. Clean water.

6. The radar issue is an interesting one and possibly think it could be a simple setting but I understand that its not really the highest priority in the scheme of things. Just added to the list mate.

Thanks for taking the time out to answer the questions and by the look of it progress has been made and I understand your frustrations as I am building a house and I think you will agree I don’t need to say anymore.

I also wish I lived a lot closer as I would have easily offered to come over and have a look and try to sort out the issues as sometimes the more eyes on the issues the quicker it can be fixed.

I don’t think there is much I can do from down here but if there is let me know as I am more then happy to help out with providing my units settings and config etc for you to compare against.

Cheers

Lee

So now the dude from Lowrance is not coming up for another few weeks. 5 weeks ago he was going to be here in 2 weeks.
Lee, its not just the product mate. Its the company itself. Any normal person would have given up by now and they would have gotten away with it.
1 more problem and I will demand my money back. And I will end up taking them to court. I will bend them over and insert the pineapple of the "merchantable goods act" right into their rectum.
Enough is enough

leelee
19-02-2010, 08:37 AM
So now the dude from Lowrance is not coming up for another few weeks. 5 weeks ago he was going to be here in 2 weeks.
Lee, its not just the product mate. Its the company itself. Any normal person would have given up by now and they would have gotten away with it.
1 more problem and I will demand my money back. And I will end up taking them to court. I will bend them over and insert the pineapple of the "merchantable goods act" right into their rectum.
Enough is enough

Totally understand mate.


Radar is something I don’t have so can’t help with that but if the blip is following you around then its picking up something from either boat or it could be a setting or it could be a fault.

The bent pins is quite common from trying to connect it to the wrong socket and the pins can break if push comes to shove.

The only reason you will require the T piece is for networking. I assume the aerial you have is the LGC-4000? If so how many HDS units do you have? If you have more then 1 on board then you are networking and you need the t-piece if it is NMEA. If you have fuel flow meters etc or any other product that is going to be connected via the NMEA cord then that is networking and the t piece is needed. However to check the GPS just plug the cord from the aerial into the NMEA output socket on the rear of the unit. It should then begin to work.

I understand you spent a heap of money on the 1kw transducer but do you have a 600w one there to use in the mean time? That might be an option for you till Lowrance arrive to look at the setup and would enable you get out and have a fish.

Cheers

Lee

honda900
19-02-2010, 09:24 PM
Honda.

I fish mostly salt. Occasional fresh.

I haven't noticed a transition in detail from a slow to speed. Mind you, I haven't really looked. If fishing or looking for fish I'm slow speed. If travelling I wind it up and just use the sounder to keep an eye on depth.

I don't know at what point these or any other sounders become gradually ineffective at marking fish at speed. Someone more cluey would know the correct maths behind it, but using PROMASS* figures if you were doing 40mph you're probably covering 10m in between the sounder signal going down, then coming back up with a result. You'd need to travelling over a huge bait school or something like a whale to see a result.

I can't get pics of 60m unless I run 50 nm out the other side of the reef. Most of my inshore stuff is less than 20. Mostly creek & rivers of about 3 or 4. Was out in 40 the other day, it looked OK

I don't have any pics at speed but will wizz some off. I'll also do that sonar log thing. I haven't played with that yet. Should be heading out this weekend if the rain drops from torrential to at least just heavy.

Lee, will do. I don't know if they have more adjustments, but the 8 has more buttons that the 7. lol



*PROMASS = Pulled Right Outa My Ass.

Dicko,
PROMAS, being the point, ever tried to find a picture of a lowrance HDS @ speed in deep water?? try it.. I have the only pictures that I can find anywhere the world, rather suprising.

The attached photo is of an LMS527c in 60 meters of water, The HDS 8 exhibits the same traits using two different transducers, the transducer that is used in the following picture is a transom mount 50/200 transducer.

Since this was taken I have also had installed a p79 airmar transducer and still see exactly the same problem. I have had both transducers, placement / configuration reviewed by a reputable lowrance dealer. Both are positioned well from an installation perspective.

I summise, that the units work reasonably well in shallow water at speed, I would like to clarify PROMAS speed, as I find the units to change the detail level at very low speed in deep water, I estimate (my personal experience) offhore to run at somewhere on a very reasonable day between 30-40kph or 18.8 knots (average speed). Please note the RPM on my display that equates to 21KPH on the gps.

I am not having a shot at you, at all, but am trying to find someone with a late model unit that can challenge my results. If it can be proven that the units work at speed in deep water I will be more than impressed, I just cant find anyone with any results at all.

My challenge is to find someone who is able to show me that the HDS works at speed in deep salt water and not at speed boat pace but normal speed. I have seen it on done on Smithys furuno 585.

The green box (bottom left) shows drift detail, the white box (right hand side, shows the same area running back to the start of my drift. If you look at the detail below the yellow it becomes very apparent that the detail level changes, when moving, (no fish unforntately but I will get a proper photo next time I am out on the HDS8.)

PS, the xtra buttons on the HDS 8 dont have any additional functions over the seven (note the download from lowrance is one version for all models) however the buttons provide much better access to frequently used settings without having to dig through the menu's and you are right the 8 is a higher resolution, the xtra buttons make the unit much more useable.



http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/honda900_uw/IMG_2198.jpg


Regards
HOnda.

Dicko
19-02-2010, 09:46 PM
I see what your talking about, but buggered if I know the answer. Some of the US forums have some cluey buggers. Some would know the 'bounce time' for want of a better word of various transducers/sounders. Logic says that a unit that has a faster 'responce' of the signal would be better at speed in deep water. Perhaps the Furuno does that ?Have you asked around THT ?

Looks like I'm heading out tommorow. I'll take more notice of the detail at speed & grab some screeen shots and that log if they're of any help for a comparison. Wont be deep though.

honda900
19-02-2010, 09:51 PM
Have tried the american forums with the same result. Seems that everyone but me fishes shallow water..

It really becomes obvious when you take notice of if tho.

will be interesting to see youre results.

Regards
Honda.

leelee
20-02-2010, 01:07 PM
Honda, Dicko is on the money with BOUNCE TIMES. That’s what you need to know. I don't know the technical name sorry, but you need to know how long it takes send a PING down and have the transducer receive the value back.

Some manufacturers actually have software built into the unit to hide any gaps between return for when returns are lost.

You will always get a better sounding is real deep water when going slow but have you tried PING rates and scroll speed adjustments on your unit?

Have a read of the manual as it explains scroll speeds and ping speed in more detail.

I normally have the ping speed quite high on my lms525 and if you bump the scroll speed up to high the flasher bar on the right will increase in size but I think you can change this back and reduce its size.

Cheers

Lee

NEWBY
20-02-2010, 01:17 PM
Totally understand mate.


The only reason you will require the T piece is for networking. I assume the aerial you have is the LGC-4000? If so how many HDS units do you have? If you have more then 1 on board then you are networking and you need the t-piece if it is NMEA. If you have fuel flow meters etc or any other product that is going to be connected via the NMEA cord then that is networking and the t piece is needed. However to check the GPS just plug the cord from the aerial into the NMEA output socket on the rear of the unit. It should then begin to work. Lee, the aerial does not install without the T piece... Its not networked and there is only 1 HDS unit. Shit I am not stupid enough to go get another one.

I understand you spent a heap of money on the 1kw transducer but do you have a 600w one there to use in the mean time? That might be an option for you till Lowrance arrive to look at the setup and would enable you get out and have a fish. I have an old Koden that works well and I have the Navman 6600 with also works well. The Lowrance is ok if I am going slow or stopped.

Cheers

Lee

See above again...

battler1
20-02-2010, 02:30 PM
FAIR TRADING MATE get your cash back while you can it only cost $45 to get it happening i feel bad for you as what you have gone through is SAD.

Joe


See above again...

leelee
20-02-2010, 03:41 PM
See above again...

Sorry I use the internal antenae in mine and I was under the impression that it would just plug and play like the previous lgc 3000 version did on the appropriate units.

Its appears that doing a quick search reveals that you do in fact ned a Lowrance N2K-EXP-RD-2 network starter kit to hook up to a HDS . It's gut me bugegred why you do as its still NMEA2000 but apparently you need one. Weird

Cheers

Lee

Dicko
21-02-2010, 11:28 AM
Have tried the american forums with the same result. Seems that everyone but me fishes shallow water..

It really becomes obvious when you take notice of if tho.

will be interesting to see youre results.

Regards
Honda.

Here's a few from idle, then increasing speed.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Barry_Mundi/shot2.png

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Barry_Mundi/shot3.png

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Barry_Mundi/shot4.png

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Barry_Mundi/shot6.png


In shallow water it doesn't seem to drop off when on the plane.

I've got the log thing if you want me to wizz it over on an email if there's something in there that helps.

Maybe you have to contact furuno or lowrance directly and ask the ping times or whatever it is for comparison. (That maybe one of the 'grey' areas that manufacturers don't like to disclose).

Out of interest, here's another from later on at 60 that is just starting to break up. I'm not after any meaningful info from it at speed just depth. Whilst this is known country. It's nice for a bit of reassurance. :)


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b229/Barry_Mundi/shot16.png

honda900
22-02-2010, 02:26 PM
Dicko,

(pictures top to bottom 1,2,3,4)

the last picture, you have very little light brown showing at all, this is one of the issues I see, although I see stripes of light brown. that is a perfect example of the problem. If you change the colour scheme to the original lowrance colours you will get a better indication of what is truly occuring (as per my LMS colour scheme).

That image shows me that you are having the same issues. The software is filling in the gaps with dark brown.

Your sensitivity is way too low, What Pete and I disovered was setting the noise filter to low and the sensitivity between -2 to +4 I can hold the bottom consistently in waters up to around 30-40meters deep.

The first picture looks like you, slowed down, then drifted or idled around, then you moved again, I am guessing this from the deep brown stripes in the middle of the sounding. (my explanation of detailed sounding V non detailed sounding).

Again this is what I see, the software, at speed changes from a detailed mode to a non detailed, mode. However it seems to be more exagerated in deeper water.

I have adjusted both ping rates and scroll speed with limited success.

Yes thanks Lee, have read the manual and understand the impact of the changes.

Regards
Honda.

NEWBY
22-02-2010, 09:40 PM
FAIR TRADING MATE get your cash back while you can it only cost $45 to get it happening i feel bad for you as what you have gone through is SAD.

Joe
Mate....MATE...I am a car dealer, nobody knows Fair trading better than us eh?:P

But there are better ways to skin cats Joe...
Having said that, I downloaded the latest HDS update and tried to install it yesterday...No go...I am no computer wizz but know my way round....Nothing...tried everything but the unit would not fire up the EXE file....
Called the help line....Here we go again....Usual guy was at lunch and I got Wayne....
NOW, credit where credit is due, he talked me through it and in minutes, I was ready to install.
And when all this BS with transducers started, I talked to Wayne once, he also picked the problem str8 up. I was told by a few people, and I quote, "dont listen to him, he wouldnt have a clue" He said "transducer problem...wrong place....turbulance...etc" He was right....Now he is arrogant....Almost rude but I will cop that every ay if the advice is right....
Wayne, Mate, your a legend...and not that you would, but dont ever let the w*****s get ya down mate...Your all right.....

sagair
22-02-2010, 09:55 PM
Newby, It's good to see you having a bit of a win at last, well done mate.

NEWBY
24-02-2010, 06:01 AM
Well todays the day.
Got the Lowrance dude up to "sort out" my problems.
They still reckon its the install of the transducer...SO I have the dude who has just installed the new transducer, also at my boat this morning. Now here is the good bit...Neither of them know the other one is going to be there. So Dude can blame old mate all he wants now. 4th of July comin early this year. And just to top the whole thing off, the dude who sold me all the gear is going to be there as well. Happy happy joy joy....
Lucky for me, blood comes off gelcote pretty easy;D
At the end of today only 1 of 2 things will happen.
1) The unit works properly like $9000 worth of electronics should
OR
2) I have a refund of $9000 in my bank this afternoon.
AND MAYBE
3) Once again I am lucky about the properties of gelcote.8-)

Who said the old ways are gone forever?;)

Oh and the dude who did the second install of the transducer is coming to fix the F***UPS from when it was 'fixed' over xmas from the time it was rebuilt 2 years ago and the 5 times it has been fixed since then. And people say I am impatient.

Dicko
24-02-2010, 08:32 AM
Will be interesting to see how you go Newby. Good luck

Honda,

Been down in BrisVegas for a couple of days. Looked at this thread on my iphone thing but can't type too well on that.

I don't see the problem of losing definition in that last pic. (It seems to do that at about 55 onwards by the way). By any measure I call that a good result for a sounder with a std transom mount tranducer at those speeds.

The software has to fill in the gaps at high speeds or regular speed. That's it's purpose. All brands do that. That's why we're all using late model sounders with interpreting software to translate the data from the transducer and display it in a simple user friendly manner rather the old paper roll and stylus jobbies.

Different companies apply that translation in their own way. Higher speed and/or deeper water means it has to translate if differently. Some are probably better at it for different applications. The furuno may be better in deeper water of 60m plus, I don't know and can't test it. You've said you've seen a furuno work well at speed in deep water. maybe there's your answer.

As for the the sensitivity being way too low, isn’t that the point of being able to make adjustments ? i.e. so you can get the best result for different conditions.
Backing it off a bit for high speed running in shallow water takes out heaps of clutter and still works very well. Because it's different to what you use in 30 or 40 m doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

Yep the first pic has some disturbance. I had stopped to pick my nose for a bit while heading to where I wanted to go. Just as I hit it take off again, I remembered to wizz off that series of pics for you. So I backed off, and pressed the button for a pic, then took off again. That lime green up top & corresponding difference in the brown bottom is prop disturbance as I nailed it for a second then backed off.

honda900
24-02-2010, 02:57 PM
Dicko,

I am glad you are happy with your unit.

Regards
Honda.

leelee
24-02-2010, 05:10 PM
Well todays the day.
Got the Lowrance dude up to "sort out" my problems.
They still reckon its the install of the transducer...SO I have the dude who has just installed the new transducer, also at my boat this morning. Now here is the good bit...Neither of them know the other one is going to be there. So Dude can blame old mate all he wants now. 4th of July comin early this year. And just to top the whole thing off, the dude who sold me all the gear is going to be there as well. Happy happy joy joy....
Lucky for me, blood comes off gelcote pretty easy;D
At the end of today only 1 of 2 things will happen.
1) The unit works properly like $9000 worth of electronics should
OR
2) I have a refund of $9000 in my bank this afternoon.
AND MAYBE
3) Once again I am lucky about the properties of gelcote.8-)

Who said the old ways are gone forever?;)

Oh and the dude who did the second install of the transducer is coming to fix the F***UPS from when it was 'fixed' over xmas from the time it was rebuilt 2 years ago and the 5 times it has been fixed since then. And people say I am impatient.

So whats the news?

Hopefully its all sorted or will be soon?

BTW I have sold my hds7 to a mate who was going to install it in dash and wanted a lgc4000 antenae and after a call I found out the the kit you are after is in stock and has been for a while.

Cheers

Lee

trymyluck
24-02-2010, 07:07 PM
Well todays the day.
Got the Lowrance dude up to "sort out" my problems.
They still reckon its the install of the transducer...SO I have the dude who has just installed the new transducer, also at my boat this morning. Now here is the good bit...Neither of them know the other one is going to be there. So Dude can blame old mate all he wants now. 4th of July comin early this year. And just to top the whole thing off, the dude who sold me all the gear is going to be there as well. Happy happy joy joy....
Lucky for me, blood comes off gelcote pretty easy;D
At the end of today only 1 of 2 things will happen.
1) The unit works properly like $9000 worth of electronics should
OR
2) I have a refund of $9000 in my bank this afternoon.
AND MAYBE
3) Once again I am lucky about the properties of gelcote.8-)

Who said the old ways are gone forever?;)

Oh and the dude who did the second install of the transducer is coming to fix the F***UPS from when it was 'fixed' over xmas from the time it was rebuilt 2 years ago and the 5 times it has been fixed since then. And people say I am impatient.


So Newbs, is it all sorted, or do we have to raise some bail money before we go fishing....................;D;D;D

NEWBY
25-02-2010, 07:19 AM
I have obviously been playing with the HDS 10 too much because the Lowrance rep didnt know as much about the settings as I did.

We set sail so I could show him the problems.
He played with it and wrote down a page or 2 of his "findings" which by the way were what I had already told them 6 months ago.

He couldnt tell me why the radar overlay wont work.
He couldnt tell me why the blip was permanently on my radar screen.
No idea why the sounder STILL cuts out at 14 kn but comes back clear as a whistle when I bury the nose of the boat.
No idea at all why you cant get the depth contour numbers to stay horizontal when the map turns.
Wouldnt have a clue why the unit shut itself off and restarted when we changed pages.
on and on and on...etc etc etc...F****G useless.
And the parting words?????? I will get back to you...."When" I asked? Then the politicians answer which did everything to avoid answering that question and I got P****D off...
So we are back to this, "If the unit is not fully operable by end of next week, you will be refunding my 9 grand and if it is working, the warranty start date will be from that day. Or just refund me"

So LEE, "whats new?" Nothing mate, they are still sh!t and still dont know sh!t from clay.


So I have gone full circle, again, but there will not be a third time...
WATCH THIS SPACE

leelee
25-02-2010, 07:27 AM
Positives to be taken from this though is that the rep has seen these issues first hand.

Hopefully you will have the answers you need shortly.

Cheers

Lee

tednted
25-02-2010, 03:18 PM
Newby ,
all I can say is that your a patient man !!!!
This whole saga has gone on for far too long !! Navico should refund you your money in my opinion ! It just simply aint good enough >:( >:(

On a side note , I was at a comp on the w/end , 3 sessions of fishing of wich a lowrance hds 5 was a prize in each one . Each time the winner received the prize from the lowrance man , he asked for it back as there were none available in stock to give away at present "wtf" :D :D :D
Cheers AL

bluefin59
25-02-2010, 03:32 PM
I feel for your situation newby it really is substandard from a company as big as this ,i would have thought he would at least have had a spare unit with him with all the latest software and bench tested ready to at least try that if yours is so bad and been going on for so long . I really do like the technology they have but i am just not sure i am willing to give it a go at MY expense . I hope this eventually turns out favourably for you . If by some chance you get your money back maybe talk to taylors they are furuno dealers its what the pros use ..matt

NEWBY
26-02-2010, 06:50 AM
Thanksguys, here is where we are so far.
Got a call yesterday from my supplier.
"the rep is onto it, radar blip is a software issue. Latest download will sort it..."
Problem.....Cant download the damn thing and when I do it to desktop and try to set it up off the EXE file, it crashes...Well done Lowrance, you have amazed me once again. The "REP" is a contactor not an employee. He didnt have the latest update and in fact told me the one I did in October, was the latest. Its not....
"the radar overlay never did work as it was only a US feature"
Nowhere does it say THAT in the ads......."latest software update will fix that"
so still no answer on
1) The depth text moving with the map making them unreadable. everything else stay at the readable horizontal position...
2) No weather overlay...Apparently, not sure we are getting that in OZ...Sirrius thing.
3) SOUNDER IS STILL NOT HAPPENING properly....ARGHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. They are stumped. Talking about ME having to lift it out AGAIN and smooth out the fairing block now.Rep is onto it....Seeing if any one olse has the problem.
4) External GPS antennae STILL NOT FITTED.....
5) North Up/course up option not available on Radar???? NFI

Patience runs out in 11 days.

Grand_Marlin
26-02-2010, 07:34 AM
Newby, whats your number mate?

Cheers

Pete

leelee
26-02-2010, 01:24 PM
Thanksguys, here is where we are so far.
Got a call yesterday from my supplier.
"the rep is onto it, radar blip is a software issue. Latest download will sort it..."

Newby download the file onto your PC. Extract the files from the EXE file and place them onto the SD card. Unit will auto upload the latest changes.


Cant download the damn thing and when I do it to desktop and try to set it up off the EXE file, it crashes...Well done Lowrance, you have amazed me once again.

So can you download it because you have said that you can’t download it but then you have said you download to the desktop and try to run it so I assume that the file is downloaded to the desktop?

If the EXE file is on your desktop then this has nothing to do with Lowrance it’s a PC issue.


4) External GPS antennae STILL NOT FITTED

Depending on how long the cable is that is required I have a cable here that should fix the problem but as I cannot see the antennae and unit I can not be 100% positive. I assume the plug from the LGC4000 is a male plug and the plug on the back of the unit is also a male plug? If so then the cable I have will fix the problem. But I am pretty sure that the kit you need is in stock.

Cheers

Lee

NEWBY
27-02-2010, 06:03 AM
And so we go on, and on, and onnnnnnnnnn
Update done.....NOTHING......
None of my issues were fixed.....
BUT they are onto it:-/ :-/ :-/
10 days...

Stuart
27-02-2010, 05:16 PM
Newby

If you could only bottle your patience you would be a billion air mate. I have only one thing to say to you “Furuno”.

Stu

NEWBY
03-03-2010, 07:00 AM
6 Days to go then it's the "Newby BAD PRODUCT Insertion Method" that will have to kick in.
Since the rep came for a visit, he got back to me via the supplier last week, NOTHING...
Pete (Grand Marlin) has given me more good advice here and in 1 phone call than I have had 6 months with Lowrance.
But I did promise them 2 weeks....and I (unlike them) am a person of my word.
The fat lady hasn't sung yet but she is certainly warming those tonsils up.>:(

OWorld
05-03-2010, 08:43 AM
You just knew I would have to jump into this one eh?
Navico have not done themselves any favours with me or anyone I speak to.
After the reps visit last week, and the phone call the next day from my supplier telling me "they were onto it" I have heard jack shizenhouzen from them. Nothing. Zip. Naff all.

Mark, the RADAR problem seems to be fixed although as you saw, it didnt pick up a boat (large one) that was 2 miles away (Lamont) and it didnt pick up the mainland, allbeit it with a lighthouse on it and all. And it certainly DOES NOT pick up a seagull like I was told the broadband would but the blip has gone yes. another intermittent problem to solve.
As far as the external anntennae for the GPS goes, it STILL has not been fitted. That is a supplier issue.

Guys I am glad you have had a good run with these clowns. I dont like to see anyone out of pocket, patience or even just having problems with a product. Good luck for the future with your gear. At this stage, mine will be returned for a full refund and I will start again. Probably Furuno but will also check out Raymarine. I gave them a further 2 weeks. Time is up on wednesday. I can only see 2 resolutions to this.
1) They give me back my 9 grand.... (preferable)
2) They send their "experts" from NZ or wherever the hell they may be up to Gladstone, lift the boat out, take EVERYTHING off the boat and start again. WITH ALL NEW GEAR.... Now we know thats not going to happen...

Here was the final blow for me really. Although the company has been bought out by the U.S. and we actually do have an office in Australia, nobody here can make decisions. everything has to go through NZ.

Hi Newby, I must admit that I am not convinced on this one. As I said in some previous posts, I certainly feel for you and what you have been through. I really feel it should have resolved a lot faster and better but what I am unsure of is by who? I am assuming that this installation was done originally by a dealer in your area, is this correct? if so, who is the dealer? I think that it should have been them replacing everything from day one and fixing all the issues properly. At this point, had they discovered that 1 or more components were faulty than they would have sent them back to Navico for a credit. Problem quickly solved. A good dealer would have had all the necessary leaverage with Navico to handle this missup promptly, efficently and quickly. Why did you have to step in into this situation? Did you buy the gears directly from Navico? if not, you do not have a contract with them but you have a contract with whoever has sold you the gear! as this gear has all been installed, chances are that Navico could blame the dealer/installer for having damaged the gear during the installation process by doing it incorrectly! and never have a real liability in this! Personally I would have not have got involved with Navico at all! Rather I would have blamed the dealer/installer and made sure that he would get this all mess under control quickly or that he would refund me the money. If the problem was eventually proven to be faulty gear, then the dealer would have had grounds to claim additional expenses for getting your boat out and into the water several time during the process. As a dealer have an open account with Navico they could have used these credits against their bills. I really do not understand how you got into this all mess in the first place! Did you buy the gear from a dealer and then did the install yourself? or did you get some sort of backyarder to install it for you?

Can you please elaborate on this very early step of the initial purchase/installation?

Thanks,
Opti

NEWBY
05-03-2010, 09:33 AM
Hi Newby, I must admit that I am not convinced on this one. As I said in some previous posts, I certainly feel for you and what you have been through. I really feel it should have resolved a lot faster and better but what I am unsure of is by who? I am assuming that this installation was done originally by a dealer in your area, is this correct? if so, who is the dealer? I think that it should have been them replacing everything from day one and fixing all the issues properly. At this point, had they discovered that 1 or more components were faulty than they would have sent them back to Navico for a credit. Righto I will start here.....Firstly, I will not name the dealer. No need. The first thing they wanted to replace was the Transducer...READ THE DAMN THREAD and then make comment...It took months to get Navico to agree to it.

Problem quickly solved. NO NOT SOLVED AT ALL....

A good dealer would have had all the necessary leaverage with Navico to handle this missup promptly, efficently and quickly. Why did you have to step in into this situation? Did you buy the gears directly from Navico? if not, you do not have a contract with them but you have a contract with whoever has sold you the gear! as this gear has all been installed, chances are that Navico could blame the dealer/installer for having damaged the gear during the installation process by doing it incorrectly! and never have a real liability in this! Personally I would have not have got involved with Navico at all! Rather I would have blamed the dealer/installer and made sure that he would get this all mess under control quickly or that he would refund me the money. If the problem was eventually proven to be faulty gear, then the dealer would have had grounds to claim additional expenses for getting your boat out and into the water several time during the process. You really do not have a clue do you? READ THE WHOLE THREAD....

As a dealer have an open account with Navico they could have used these credits against their bills. I really do not understand how you got into this all mess in the first place! All you need to understand is that the mess I got into was becasue I chose LOWRANCE.
Did you buy the gear from a dealer and then did the install yourself? or did you get some sort of backyarder to install it for you? Once again...READ THE THREAD...

Can you please elaborate on this very early step of the initial purchase/installation?

Thanks,
Opti

See above in blue....Dead set, your a goose....AND I would hazard a guess at a goose who has some sort of affiliation with Navico or Lowrance etc. Blind Freddy could probably see that.....

OWorld
05-03-2010, 10:07 AM
I am sorry mate, you keep calling me names but you keep missing my point .....

When you buy something you enter a contract between you and the seller. If the seller is the dealer you should have kept hammering him, as he is the only party here liable to you. It is up to him to enter a dispute with Navico, not you. If he thought Navico gear or service was bad, why did he sell you their gear in the first place? He must have had either very little experience with Navico gear or not very many bad ones, which proves my point! If the dealer agreed with you that there was an issue with the Navico gear, he should have removed the lot, sent it back, and given you the Furuno gear! Fullstop. It should have been done by the dealer not Navico, very soon after you presented the issues. Then it was his problem how he would have dealt the issue with Navico. To me this is a very simple matter.

I will proceed with a further example ..... a friend in Adelaide bought a brand new QLD boat in Jan 2009 and I drove this boat from Sydney to Adelaide for him. Once we got here I made a list of a few things that were not working, some included some fantastic Raymarine gear. The boat is worth approx $1.8 Million. When I finished my report I handed it to the owner and we emailed it to the factory. They then organized several people from Cummins, Raymarine, etc. to go to the boat and fix the issues. We never spoke with Raymarine, we only spoke to the boatbuilder!

What I do not understand his your frustration here with Navico, if you feel that your gear is faulty, get the dealer that sold it to you to remove it and give you what you want. You have legal rights with him not Navico, he has rights with Navico. By bypassing this simple step you have made your life heaps more complicated! Of course though, if the dealer you bought you gear from is too small, unorganized, not as solid as others, then you will be struggling to get anywhere with him and he might divert you to Navico, which I seem to get the impression is what happened here.

Maybe this is now well too late for you Newby, but if there is one lesson to be learned here, it seems to me to be that, if you are investing a fair bit of money in electronics you want to do it from a reputable/largish dealer/installer, in this way if you ran into troubles you can get issues resolved quickly and promptly. I am sure that issues can occur with all brands but you should not be the one fixing them unless you have installed it yourself! And even then you should know that by doing it yourself you might be saving some money but you are also opening yourself to weaknesses when it comes to warranty claims, so beware! Saving money = risk! I might take the risk, but then I have to be prepared to pay the possible consequences.

I hope you understand where I am coming from. I don't care about Navico, Furuno, Raymarine, etc. ..... I just would like your experience to be useful to others in future, so that they do not get burned like you did.

My $0.02,
Opti

NEWBY
06-03-2010, 06:44 AM
I am sorry mate, you keep calling me names but you keep missing my point .....

When you buy something you enter a contract between you and the seller. If the seller is the dealer you should have kept hammering him, as he is the only party here liable to you. It is up to him to enter a dispute with Navico, not you. If he thought Navico gear or service was bad, why did he sell you their gear in the first place? He must have had either very little experience with Navico gear or not very many bad ones, which proves my point! If the dealer agreed with you that there was an issue with the Navico gear, he should have removed the lot, sent it back, and given you the Furuno gear! Fullstop. It should have been done by the dealer not Navico, very soon after you presented the issues. Then it was his problem how he would have dealt the issue with Navico. To me this is a very simple matter.

I will proceed with a further example ..... a friend in Adelaide bought a brand new QLD boat in Jan 2009 and I drove this boat from Sydney to Adelaide for him. Once we got here I made a list of a few things that were not working, some included some fantastic Raymarine gear. The boat is worth approx $1.8 Million. When I finished my report I handed it to the owner and we emailed it to the factory. They then organized several people from Cummins, Raymarine, etc. to go to the boat and fix the issues. We never spoke with Raymarine, we only spoke to the boatbuilder!

What I do not understand his your frustration here with Navico, if you feel that your gear is faulty, get the dealer that sold it to you to remove it and give you what you want. You have legal rights with him not Navico, he has rights with Navico. By bypassing this simple step you have made your life heaps more complicated! Of course though, if the dealer you bought you gear from is too small, unorganized, not as solid as others, then you will be struggling to get anywhere with him and he might divert you to Navico, which I seem to get the impression is what happened here.

Maybe this is now well too late for you Newby, but if there is one lesson to be learned here, it seems to me to be that, if you are investing a fair bit of money in electronics you want to do it from a reputable/largish dealer/installer, in this way if you ran into troubles you can get issues resolved quickly and promptly. I am sure that issues can occur with all brands but you should not be the one fixing them unless you have installed it yourself! And even then you should know that by doing it yourself you might be saving some money but you are also opening yourself to weaknesses when it comes to warranty claims, so beware! Saving money = risk! I might take the risk, but then I have to be prepared to pay the possible consequences.

I hope you understand where I am coming from. I don't care about Navico, Furuno, Raymarine, etc. ..... I just would like your experience to be useful to others in future, so that they do not get burned like you did.

My $0.02,
Opti
Mate, its not me missing the point here eh? How many times do I have to say I BOUGHT IT FROM not only A DEALER, it is THE DEALER in Gladstone. There are no others. And he has his own installer.
Point 2 I will make is this Opti, I know the consumer laws. I own a car yard. I deal with this type of stuff all the time and I know what a dealer goes through to get warranty work approved and get things happening for the client...Send this document, wait 24 hours, send another document, wait another 24 hours, send more pics and try this that and the other thing, wait 48 hours...etc etc. We short cut it all by calling the manufacturer and IN CONJUNCTION with the Supplier, the manufacturer and the client (me) we tried to work through this in a quicker manner. Just imagine where I would be if I had waited for the dealer, and his subby installer, to get it all together with the factory then try and coordinate meeting me at the boat etc etc...Bloody nightmare +....Thats why I keep saying, read the whole thread...Its all explained one way or another...
Ultimately, as a consumer I will have 2 courses of action here...
1) I hit the supplier under the "merchantable goods act" and get my money back.
2) I go the manufacturer for supplying goods that they know were not ready for public release. They knew were unstable hence all the upgrades so far. That way I can also recover the 20+ hours I have personally lost from my productive day time. I can even go for undue stress caused etc etc. and dont even get me started on the safety at sea factor. My lawyers would have a field day with them.
There is way too much precedence on this and many many forums around the globe that point out the basis of my argument. And that is an unsatisfactory product was released with the knowledge that it was not right. YES they knew it was unstable in the software and they knew they were going to have many issues. THEY KNEW....
So here we are, nearly 7 months after install, STILL with no resolution in sight as far as satisfactory performance goes. They have 4 days left...

OWorld
06-03-2010, 10:37 AM
What I have been trying to say all along is that I would have gone for option 1 and tried hard to get your electronics replaced to whatever you prefer from the Gladstone Dealer. Then I would have let them chase the problems with Navico. How soon should you have done this? that is a hard question but I am sure that considering all your documented ordeal you should definitely still be in time. At the end of the day, the dealer has many more ways to get back at them and if Navico decides to attribute the issues to a bad installation then it is between them! As far as these Lowrance gear not being fit for market ...... then the Dealer should have even more so have supported you with the change to another brand. By the dealer not doing this he is almost supporting Lowrance and not you, the Client. You say you have a Car Yard, perfect example ...... Say I buy a brand new car, any brand. If I have issues with it I will take it back to the dealer and get them to fix it. If it keeps giving problems I would try and request a replacement, but I am sure I would not be ringing the Australian Head Office and try to solve it with the Australian CEO, or the Worldwide CEO! I understand that you were trying to do it for the best, that you were trying to get this all excercise to work, but unfortunately in doing so it has turned up worse and it has deleyed things even further. Should you keep going in this direction? Personally I don't think so. I guess this is what I am trying to say, stick to the dealer, get your boat gear replaced with whatever you feel appropriate and let them sort out this mess! Personally I feel this to be the quickest way out for you now.

Opti

NEWBY
08-03-2010, 07:11 AM
Option 1 would require a court case.....
Unless the dealer was willing to do it...Unlikely...AND I would lose the court case as I would be deemed not to have given every oportunity to the supplier or manufacturer to rectify the problem.

Trust me, I know what happens...

Tomorrow is D day for them....

Best advice still to date is from Pete (grand marlin). Thanks again mate.

OWorld
08-03-2010, 09:17 AM
I would have thought you have given them plenty of opportunity to rectify the issues! Also if you say "Unlikely", it sounds to me that your dealer does not believe that there is an issue with the gear. Otherwise they would have given up on keep throwing ours of labors chasing a product that does not seem fit, as you say and replaced it for something that would have worked first time. Unless of course they are not sure themselves of what is causing the problems.

Anyway, keep us posted and let us know how it goes.

Opti

murf
08-03-2010, 03:29 PM
have fun on D Day Newby

waiting in anticipation for the outcome

good to see a pic of two people up the front on watch because the radar doesn't do its job in another thread :)

cheers Murf

trymyluck
08-03-2010, 04:29 PM
have fun on D Day Newby

waiting in anticipation for the outcome

good to see a pic of two people up the front on watch because the radar doesn't do its job in another thread :)

cheers Murf


Man I don't know about them being on watch but they were on something.;D

Apollo
08-03-2010, 09:36 PM
have fun on D Day Newby

waiting in anticipation for the outcome

good to see a pic of two people up the front on watch because the radar doesn't do its job in another thread :)

cheers Murf

Never can be too careful at anchor Murf - need to keep watch;D Mark is a worry, cause he was looking backwards - been said before about him.;)

trymyluck
09-03-2010, 05:39 AM
Never can be too careful at anchor Murf - need to keep watch;D Mark is a worry, cause he was looking backwards - been said before about him.;)


And where were you 2??????????? BEHIND ME...............::) No wonder I feel like a whiplash victim......................;D;D

NEWBY
10-03-2010, 06:38 AM
UPDATE MARCH 9 2010
As a yesterday, there is a new sounder on its way up to us. Not a HDS unit, another one that is compatible with the B260 Transducer that is installed. This will eliminate that question once and for all. Guess who's idea that was???? No not Navico....And no not the supplier..... That only leaves one party....No wonder my business does so well, I must be ok at this problem solving stuff eh??? Like it is rocket science or anything.
There is also "another" software update on its way from NZ. Must be one that is not available to australians or something? Why the hell they didnt just email it to me or something I dont now, but Hey, it is Navico.
So when the update gets here, we are floating the tub and testing it folr its last ditch effort...If that doesnt work, we will try the new sounder and one way or the other that will prove "someones" theory about what is wrong. I personally am going with Pete's suggestion that something is causing turbulence or bubbles to upset the very sensitive 1kw transducer.

So if everything is not 100% after all this, bye bye $9000 worth of Lowrance gear, hello something else. I will probably go seperate Furuno sounder with stand alone radar.

I am still waiting for Navico to agree that "IF the updates etc etc work and everything is 100%" that they start the warranty from that date.

The supplier has been told that although I dont see it as fair, he is the one I have to get the money back from and that if I have to take it to court, I will go all associated costs as well. He of course then has to go at Navico etc etc.

Steeler
10-03-2010, 07:35 AM
I have no idea how you have managed not to have blood on your hands through all this.I take my hat off to you for all the patience you have shown.

Steve

leelee
10-03-2010, 07:40 AM
UPDATE MARCH 9 2010
As a yesterday, there is a new sounder on its way up to us. Not a HDS unit, another one that is compatible with the B260 Transducer that is installed. This will eliminate that question once and for all. Guess who's idea that was???? No not Navico....And no not the supplier..... That only leaves one party....No wonder my business does so well, I must be ok at this problem solving stuff eh??? Like it is rocket science or anything.
There is also "another" software update on its way from NZ. Must be one that is not available to australians or something? Why the hell they didnt just email it to me or something I dont now, but Hey, it is Navico.
So when the update gets here, we are floating the tub and testing it folr its last ditch effort...If that doesnt work, we will try the new sounder and one way or the other that will prove "someones" theory about what is wrong. I personally am going with Pete's suggestion that something is causing turbulence or bubbles to upset the very sensitive 1kw transducer.

So if everything is not 100% after all this, bye bye $9000 worth of Lowrance gear, hello something else. I will probably go seperate Furuno sounder with stand alone radar.

I am still waiting for Navico to agree that "IF the updates etc etc work and everything is 100%" that they start the warranty from that date.

The supplier has been told that although I dont see it as fair, he is the one I have to get the money back from and that if I have to take it to court, I will go all associated costs as well. He of course then has to go at Navico etc etc.

Be good to see the results. What is the other unit that has been sent up?

You will probably find that the “new update” is what is deemed a beta upgrade and it has not been released to the general public hence why it has to be sent over. The reason it can not be sent via email is because majority of the upgrades for HDS units are over 300meg and 300meg sent via email is not something that can be done by your average home pc. That’s the reason it is being sent to you via snail mail. It’s a technical limitation not Navico’s limitation and the technical limitation would be that your PC and or email program would not be able to handle a 300meg file.

So if Petes suggestion is correct and there is turbulence or bubbles screwing with the 1kw transducer doesn’t that mean it’s the location of the transducer that is the problem? If so would that not be the installers issue, considering the installer fitted the transducer and not Navico?

Cheers

Lee

honda900
10-03-2010, 03:27 PM
Newby,

Can you take some photos when you are at speed, (not flat out) just 20-30kph, if you get the chance.

when you are testing, pay particular attention to the light brown stripes in the black at the bottom (on the lowrance), then change the colour scheme to the old lowrance colours and see if you seeing the bottom properly.


Regards
HOnda.

NEWBY
11-03-2010, 07:29 AM
Ok got the call yesterday from the supplier.
In answer to the large file, technology would allow an upload to their site or another site that I could access and I could download from there.
Transducer location is the installers problem yes, but we cannot identify anything that could cause the bubbles. Maybe the bowstrakers are causing bubbles or tubulence. I have been under her last weekend and I still cant see anything that will be doing it. If that were the case, the other sounders wouldnt work.
I will try and post the pics that I took for lowrance.
Not sure what unit they are sending to do the "non-HDS" test
Also sending a cable to get the radar overlay to work. Apparently it should have been unstalled from the beginning and hooked up to a heading sensor. And yes, that is the supplier/installer issue. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Lee, I think your right about the "Beta" upgrade. It is not yet available to the public. can still see this all going south and coming out to be replaced by something else. Shame really, the HDS has all the toys. I it worked, it would be fantastic. 7 months now.

leelee
11-03-2010, 08:08 AM
Could possibly be a 112 or even an lcx or lms.

I guess hindsight is wonderful thing but I would be quietly confident that if the products were purchased and installed by Pete then you would have been happily fishing many months ago.

I just hope everything can be resolved for you asap, one way or another.

Cheers

Lee

honda900
11-03-2010, 03:45 PM
Newby,

dont know if you have one or maybe borrow one (dive shop??), an underwater camera mounted on a pole, may get you a look at the transducer while the boat is moving, so you can truly see what is going on.

I did see some cheapies at one time for a 100.00 that may just give you enough to see whats going on.

Regards
HOnda.

Apollo
11-03-2010, 06:18 PM
Newby,

dont know if you have one or maybe borrow one (dive shop??), an underwater camera mounted on a pole, may get you a look at the transducer while the boat is moving, so you can truly see what is going on.

I did see some cheapies at one time for a 100.00 that may just give you enough to see whats going on.

Regards
HOnda.

Gee, don't fancy hanging off a pole at 15 knots on Newbs boat trying to hold it steady.

Steve

trymyluck
11-03-2010, 07:11 PM
Gee, don't fancy hanging off a pole at 15 knots on Newbs boat trying to hold it steady.

Steve


Well we could just lower you down on a rope.............take a few snaps and up you come;D;D Just for safety we would have to have a safety line attached by a couple of hooks............:o



Mark

Apollo
11-03-2010, 07:26 PM
Well we could just lower you down on a rope.............take a few snaps and up you come;D;D Just for safety we would have to have a safety line attached by a couple of hooks............:o



Mark

Yeah great. The rope wouldn't happen to be 80lb attached to a wire leader? Let me guess, you would attach the other end to a rod and jus to make things more interesting, you would just nick me a bit when I am getting in the waterto get some blood flowing.

Nice bastard you are - thanks mate!>:(

honda900
12-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Well it did also cross my mind to hang someone over the side by their feet with a pair of goggles on..

not up for a swim apollo?? :D

pretty sure I know who newby would like to undertake this little task..

Regards
HOnda.

trymyluck
12-03-2010, 06:40 PM
Yeah great. The rope wouldn't happen to be 80lb attached to a wire leader? Let me guess, you would attach the other end to a rod and jus to make things more interesting, you would just nick me a bit when I am getting in the waterto get some blood flowing.

Nice bastard you are - thanks mate!>:(



NO NO NO There is no way I would be that cruel and deliberately take a knife to ya, I've got to get rid of a bit of blood anyway so I'd say what the hell, anything to help a mate out. Whats a litre of blood between mates...........::):o;D


And I'd use 120lb plus a bit of wire......................;D;D8-)

Apollo
13-03-2010, 07:12 AM
Well it did also cross my mind to hang someone over the side by their feet with a pair of goggles on..

not up for a swim apollo?? :D

pretty sure I know who newby would like to undertake this little task..

Regards
HOnda.


Not you too!!! :(

Apollo
13-03-2010, 07:15 AM
NO NO NO There is no way I would be that cruel and deliberately take a knife to ya, I've got to get rid of a bit of blood anyway so I'd say what the hell, anything to help a mate out. Whats a litre of blood between mates...........::):o;D


And I'd use 120lb plus a bit of wire......................;D;D8-)

Gee thanks MATE:(

Steve

NEWBY
16-03-2010, 06:50 AM
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_50_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZCxdm923YYAU)
Sick of waiting. Sick of their bull$h!t.
No word. No call. No jack shit from them.
Stay tuned boys and girls, this ones about to go south for Lowrance.
Time for Newby to go hard on their arses.
Local boy not gonna be happy either, he has to pay the 9k back then chase Navico.
Of course, out of all this, I will be the W*****R.
7 Months is a joke.
I will post some of the emails that have gone back and forth over the 7 months.
Have a read is you need a laugh.






http://www.smileycentral.com/sig.jsp?pc=ZSzeb113&pp=ZCxdm923YYAU (http://www.smileycentral.com/dl/index.jhtml?partner=ZSzeb113_ZCxdm923YYAU&utm_id=7921)

murf
16-03-2010, 07:18 AM
:( :( :( sorry to hear that they still don't want to stand up and take control of all this and make good on their product

mate you have lost heaps in personal ways and by not having gear working for you at sea

all the best with the outcome :)

cheers Murf

NEWBY
22-03-2010, 07:22 AM
I love Navico.
NOT....
The "update" that I was meant to be getting is the one I downloaded and installed a month ago.
The local dude cannot use the Airmar site to identify which NON BROADBAND sounder can be attached to the Transducer so we can at least test Mike's theory of the transducer being wrongly placed or the hull creating turbullence and upseting the water flow over it.
The radar overlay wont work cause it needs a Heading Sensor??? There is nowhere that it is mentioned and it wont hook up to the Navman oneI already have...Same company for F***S Sake???
How can a company LEGALLY sell this shit? It is the biggest waste of money I have ever had the misfortune of buying.
HDS????? Not worth $9.00 never mind $9000.00
The company can not tell me how to get the charts to show the depth numbers reading horizontally...They move around with the map.
What a F**K show.

Tracker
22-03-2010, 09:43 AM
I love Navico.
NOT....
The "update" that I was meant to be getting is the one I downloaded and installed a month ago.
The local dude cannot use the Airmar site to identify which NON BROADBAND sounder can be attached to the Transducer so we can at least test Mike's theory of the transducer being wrongly placed or the hull creating turbullence and upseting the water flow over it.
The radar overlay wont work cause it needs a Heading Sensor??? There is nowhere that it is mentioned and it wont hook up to the Navman oneI already have...Same company for F***S Sake???
How can a company LEGALLY sell this shit? It is the biggest waste of money I have ever had the misfortune of buying.
HDS????? Not worth $9.00 never mind $9000.00
The company can not tell me how to get the charts to show the depth numbers reading horizontally...They move around with the map.
What a F**K show.

:(maybe the time has come to put the boat on the hard,remove all the navico gear.and return to the dealer for full refund.No one can say you haven't give them time to fix it.
I know you will still lose quite a bit of$$ but $9000.00 of gear that don't do what it's supposed to do us a total waste of space.
I think some company's release new gear without fully testing and hope it will be ok.
Is this the first time this combo(hds/radar etc) been fitted on any boat??
If not does it work?

cheers Mate don't give up.:whip:

Stuart
22-03-2010, 03:28 PM
Time to piss the crap off mate.

Stu

NEWBY
23-03-2010, 06:44 AM
Message left for the supplier yesterday.
Your right, time to get rid of it.

bluefin59
23-03-2010, 06:54 AM
Lots of luck with that ,maybe you will have more luck with there ability to give you a full refund ,maybe you should direct them towards QLD consumer affairs web site so they know they dont have a leg to stand on as its not fit for use and doesnt do what its suppose to . Being a car sales person you would know your rights ,give it to them and go get a furuno .Its a shame really as i like this sort of technoligy but this drama certainly doesnt inspire confidence in navico equipment..matt

NEWBY
24-03-2010, 07:04 AM
Another message left. Another day with no call.
That means its "Fight Time"
He knows, cause i told him, that it is refund time and that I have been patient enough.
Geesus christ man, I have replaced whole cars in less time than this. A lot less.
Stand by, this could get real interesting.

fish4therapy
24-03-2010, 09:46 AM
AS you know big fella.... I am a Garmin / Furuno fan from way back to papergragh stuff and Sat Nav.

I hear ya about customer service......... Where TF has it gone these days, do not business's care about return customers or even backing their product ????

I remember when I first met you and we discussed your business and you told me a little story about " it's not the price of the car, but the deal ". I have taken that on board when starting my own business and have never looked back. Never seriously advertised and do not have one unhappy customer in over 2 years.

This thread is about customer service, I see that. It is also about the lack of product knowledge by support staff and substandard product. I can accept human error and electronics are fickle, but when it comes to many thousands of ( hard earned or borrowed ;) ) dollars being spent to improve the quality of leisure time on the water, it is hard to fathom the attitude of Lowrance Navico.

Sorry to hear about your bent shaft........ hope your marriage doesn't suffer because of that :o :P :P

The only thing I can tell you is that I purchased a Furuno 668 many years ago for my 17ft boat. At the same time purchased a garmin GPS.

Furuno ( very old technology CRT ) still going strong on new boat and Gramin was upgraded. Never had an issue. Maybe I am lucky ????

Anyway. when you have a few minutes, have a squizz here.

You can get a free DVD ( which I have ), mind blowing technology

http://www.wassp.com/


cheers LP

Hi Newby,
I have read this thread with great interest as I have been considering the Lowrance HDS, nowhere near the level of the stuff you have, but HDS5. It's really hard to believe that they have treated you like this after spending so much money and patience on them. It's a bloody shame and am feeling for you. Nothing they can do now can replace what you have lost in time and pleasure on the water. Hope it turns out well, if that's possible after all this. One good thing though that has come our of this, is that you have shared your story of woe's in this thread. As a prospective buyer, you have really made me sit up and take notice instead of being wooed by the glossy pics and sales spiel etc, which can be real easy to concentrate on when 'investing' in new gear. So thanks for sharing and giving me, and no doubt many others, the heads up. Still, you have done it hard though and the way you have been treated is just atrocious. Hope it's not too much longer before you're up and running again.


Hey Lucky Phill,
Thanks for posting this link to the wassp site! [back in Dec] What a great read and what an awesome system that Wassp WMB160F is! Way out of my league, but fantastic to read about the top end of the technology and see the video's. How good would it be if this technology could be used to produce an underwater mapping system that you could have as a base map on all sonar/gps systems so you can already have an underwater map of what the bottom structure is, and see where you're going in relation to the bottom etc. Would only need a sounder for the depth and to find the fish! No doubt it will take years, but one can only hope that one day this level of technology will become affordable to everyday fisho's, but I reckon I'll be getting pretty old and wrinkly by then. Still, it's good to see what the big boys are using and how they do it. I reckon that Navico should somehow be made to bear the cost for one of these waasp systems to be installed in Newby's boat! Or mine and I'd let him use it.....
Thanks for posting the link. Cheers!

fish4therapy
24-03-2010, 09:47 AM
Oops, duplicated last entry. Still learning how to drive this thing...

fish4therapy
24-03-2010, 01:43 PM
Geez, Newby you have copped a really rough trot with all this.
I thought I had read all of this thread when I added my other comments this morning, then later realised that there was heaps more. I have just read the whole 12 pages so far and it is unbeleiveable example of extremely poor customer service, on the part of all involved including your supplier, the fitter and Navico/Lawrence in my opinion based on what I have read on this thread. Surely they would rather step in early and fix the problem to keep high paying customers happy, and to avoid this sort of negative word of mouth. I agree that it does seem to have been a bit of a blame game with a lot of finger pointing to the problem being elsewhere, instead of taking responsibility by attacking the problem and resloving it either by complete exchange and re-install, or full money back. I think you hit the nail on the head regarding 'spineless' being the problem which has made it drag on way too long for you. As you said, you have stepped in and replaced cars for your customers in similar situations, and it's a shame you don't get that sort of service back yourself. If all this wasn't so serious, it would be a hilarious script for a 'keystone cops style' episode of how to fit out a fishing boat! I will be watching this thread with great interest and hoping it is all resolved pronto, either money back or rectified. Hope to soon see a photo of you out in your boat with a big smile on your dial whilst holding up a big trophy fish you have just caught from using your high tech gear, either current or whatever you get to replace it with.
It will probably only be then when you are out catching fish abain that the pain of all this will ease. Like you said, everyone remembers Mohammad Ali, but not many remember his opponent. All those future fish catches of yours are far more important than what you have endured through all this. It's just a pity that your supplier, installer and manufacturer haven't realised this, that it is far better to keep you happy by resolving problems quickly, then allowing anyone to endure this treatment no matter who's fault it is. Hopefully you will get to post many of your fishing success photo's very soon. Keep us posted, you have certainly developed an audience on this thread. Cheers!

NEWBY
27-03-2010, 06:51 AM
Because of the good samaritan that I am, they (Navico) have been given a little more time. Like next week. Easter is the deadline.
I had 2 calls from NZ from the so called dude who makes the decisions.

We have a non HDS unit, compatable with the transducer, coming up to test out whats causing what with the sounder problems.

NOW we find out, we need a heading sensor for the radar overlay to work? But I have one.......A Navman to go with the autopilot. Nah that wont work they say...Different language....But now all of a sudden, it will??????? Just needs an adaptor.

And the depth contour numbers that dont move with the orientation of the map???, "errrrr our technicians are working on that.....Its a Navionics problem, not a lowrance one"??? BULL.....

The radar blip seems to be gone.....

And The decision maker cant make a decision on the warranty start date being when it all works so I am not really anywhere, again.

Local dude has the shits big time with Navico cause he knows he is going to have to write out a big cheque.

So I figure I can now get this crap out of my boat, put a GOOD sounder in and a radar and have enough to pay for most of mine and the kids trip to the swaines next August. (About $8000)

If I have to go the court route, I will be going for undue stress, time, fuel, berthing and any other damn thing I can think of that has cost me money since all this started.

Were on the final leg.

So far I have contacted Navionics and they say there is NOT any problem with their Platinum Cards.
I have also contacted AIRMAR about their transducer. Apparently I am not an isolated case and they are unhappy with the response time of Navico in this case.

I will happily release the name of the NZ "decision maker" when I have completed this final leg of my Nightmare with Navico.

I will also show you all the emails (lies etc) I have received from many different people within Navico. I will hold them until all this is finalised in case i need them for legal reasons. I will say now that I was asked to sign a waiver of my warranty rights on the unit....Thats when the heat got turned up from my point of view.

Stay tuned.

Apollo
27-03-2010, 07:19 AM
I will say now that I was asked to sign a waiver of my warranty rights on the unit....


WTF????????? Are they kidding?

Newbs, being the nice bloke I am, I have a spare Navman 4100 in the shed, you can borrow;D. Probably be more useful than yours at the moment:(.

Steve

NEWBY
29-03-2010, 06:38 AM
WTF????????? Are they kidding?

Newbs, being the nice bloke I am, I have a spare Navman 4100 in the shed, you can borrow;D. Probably be more useful than yours at the moment:(.

Steve
Mate, as you know, it works perfectly until I start moving at more than 7kn.

4 DAYS !!!

NEWBY
30-03-2010, 06:06 AM
3 DAYS to go Mr Navico

finga
30-03-2010, 07:07 AM
3 DAYS to go Mr Navico
Oh, leave the poor bugger alone.
He's probably had to go out on stress leave.

Na, stuff it. They deserve it. Sik 'em Newb.
http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Battle/fish.gif


What a crock of crap that stress leave is besides the way......

NEWBY
31-03-2010, 06:51 AM
You would think that after my outburst last week, when the supplier (He is the one that has to refund the money by the way) says he will have the new compatable sounder available LAST week for trials, that if it did not arrive, he would at least call eh?

Welcome to F*****G Gladstone.

Shame, he is a really nice fella too.

Tomorrow is it, if I am not at least 95% fixed. OUT COMES THE CRAP.
In with the furuno.....

wags on the water
31-03-2010, 03:55 PM
I think a call to "A current Affair" is in order mate. I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you.

Wags

NEWBY
31-03-2010, 09:27 PM
I think a call to "A current Affair" is in order mate. I'm sorry to hear this has happened to you.

Wags
Mate as much as I hate NAVICO right now I would rather use the HDS 10 as sinkers than give ACA or today tonight the satisfaction of buggering someone else up.
They would attack my local guy...I dont want that. He just sells the $hit....
Cheers for the support though...
How many more sleeps to Agnes????

NEWBY
31-03-2010, 09:34 PM
So today I get a call from NZ from the dude who is meant to be sorting out ALL the crap right.
He asks how everything is going. I say, F*******G C****S P**S ME OFF.(clean version) He truly thought the local dude had sorted it out....
I say, well when you ring him, tell him to get my cheque ready cause I am over this and I dont have any more time to dedicate to this F**K SHOW.
All of a sudden, the bits have "suddenly" arrived in Gladstone and I am ready for the FINAL round of testing. If I get time tomorrow (Thursday) I will go out and give the final report.
I dont hold out much hope. I dont really care.....
If it works...cool...the excitement of the "all new exciting" product has been extinguished. They have deflated me. My ego is damaged...And that my friends, means war....

NEWBY
31-03-2010, 09:44 PM
Hi there Newby Have just sat and read all 13 pages of this saga with beer in hand what a bloody mess mate what you need to do know is ask these idiots for some tickets to the circus if they ask you what circus tell them the circus they're running what a bunch of clowns. REFUND MATE REFUND REFUND REFUND

Good luck with these clowns mate

sinka

ps going to get my deposit back on hds7 first thing in morning

Mate, I didnt used to drink until I bought the HDS10.....Jus kiddin'
Honestly, if this $hit works, it will be amazing from what I have read. I am starting to believe Pete (Marlin mike) that it could be water pick ups or hull design.
When I hook the Lowrance x???? to the transducer, it will tell all. A non broadband sounder hooked to the 1kw transducer at 15kn....... This is the final test really...Nothing else to test.....
Sinka, please mate, done let 1 really bad experience sour your purchase. I would hate to think that your supplier misses out because of 1 baddy. Maybe put on hold??? But dont cancel mate....Have a chat to your supplier...Show him this thread maybe....
Thanks for your support.....
Its appreciated...

finga
01-04-2010, 06:41 AM
A couple of questions:
Did the old sounder work well at speed??
If not then something happening underneath...maybe.
If it did work well then why isn't the new transducer picking up at speed??

Sounds like the local nice bloke has been like the ostrich and shoved his head in the sand hoping it'll go away. But that's taking the bloke from the land of the sheep lovers word as gospel. But you have to wonder what's the go when parts seemingly 'materialise' from the Enterprise.
All sounds very suss especially seeing today is D day for them.
Sounds like they're just buying some time to me.
But if it works then you can sea trial it over Easter and next week there might be a chapter 2 in the Newb/Navico saga.

PS: Just take string and good snapper sinker to sound the bottom like they used to in the old days or you can listen for reefs by having someone sit in the cabin with their ear to the floor.
Maybe a flight up for Pete (Grand Marlin) by Navico would not be a bad idea as he seems to make them work OK.

whiteman
01-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Newby, I just read through this thread. I've bought a few dodgy products in my life (XD Falcon, a few Alfas) but always got a refund or quality warranty work done to keep me happy - then sold them in most cases. I find it hard to believe that you didn't get into refund mode earlier in the story and stick to this as the only acceptable option. That is a lesson to us all rather than holding out hope that the distributor will get things done right eventually as the customer is the one who suffers through this process.

The issue we all have when buying sounders/plotters right now is the specs for the HDS range blows the competition to smitherines. As previously said by Dicko, Lowrance (on paper and in most real life cases) has come up with a product which has reset the benchmark with a quantum leap. I am looking at the HDS8 and will buy in Australia from a large, heartless supplier like Bias and if it doesn't perform it comes off the boat and straight back to the shop for a swap or refund if it is within the first few weeks.

Good luck with your battle - you have far more patience than I've got. And thanks for the warning re Navico support.

NEWBY
06-04-2010, 07:03 AM
A couple of questions:
Did the old sounder work well at speed??
If not then something happening underneath...maybe.
If it did work well then why isn't the new transducer picking up at speed??

Sounds like the local nice bloke has been like the ostrich and shoved his head in the sand hoping it'll go away. But that's taking the bloke from the land of the sheep lovers word as gospel. But you have to wonder what's the go when parts seemingly 'materialise' from the Enterprise.
All sounds very suss especially seeing today is D day for them.
Sounds like they're just buying some time to me.
But if it works then you can sea trial it over Easter and next week there might be a chapter 2 in the Newb/Navico saga.

PS: Just take string and good snapper sinker to sound the bottom like they used to in the old days or you can listen for reefs by having someone sit in the cabin with their ear to the floor.
Maybe a flight up for Pete (Grand Marlin) by Navico would not be a bad idea as he seems to make them work OK.
G'day mate. The old sounder/transducer is still installed and works fine at speed.
Tomorrow we hook the NON HDS unit up to the transducer and test it all.
I have made it very clear that I will be getting a refund, in full, if it is not at least identified this week and rectified by next week. No if's, buts or maybe's.

NEWBY
06-04-2010, 07:04 AM
Newby, I just read through this thread. I've bought a few dodgy products in my life (XD Falcon, a few Alfas) but always got a refund or quality warranty work done to keep me happy - then sold them in most cases. I find it hard to believe that you didn't get into refund mode earlier in the story and stick to this as the only acceptable option. That is a lesson to us all rather than holding out hope that the distributor will get things done right eventually as the customer is the one who suffers through this process.

The issue we all have when buying sounders/plotters right now is the specs for the HDS range blows the competition to smitherines. As previously said by Dicko, Lowrance (on paper and in most real life cases) has come up with a product which has reset the benchmark with a quantum leap. I am looking at the HDS8 and will buy in Australia from a large, heartless supplier like Bias and if it doesn't perform it comes off the boat and straight back to the shop for a swap or refund if it is within the first few weeks.

Good luck with your battle - you have far more patience than I've got. And thanks for the warning re Navico support.
Weird thing is that they seem to work for some and not others.

bluefin59
08-04-2010, 12:07 PM
Newby surely this sagga is coming to an end i would have thought navico would have solved this by now even just to get this thread of the front of this section ,lots of luck with this maybe like a simple furuno fcv 585 would satisfy your needs i would have thought ... matt

finga
12-04-2010, 07:02 AM
How did you get on??
All problems solved??

Far side
12-04-2010, 08:07 AM
Newby

Just read this thread Bloody hell
Get rid of it Stick in some garmins but remember they have their share of issues as well At least you will get good radar and gps as for the sounder thats a tough one but that Old koden is looking like a good piece of kit at the moment

I hope you get it sorted and would hate to be the dealer in the middle of this S**T fight

Please let us know how it is going

NEWBY
13-04-2010, 06:28 AM
I havent had time to fit the test unit yet so no resolve.
Will keep you all updated.

battler1
18-04-2010, 03:45 PM
Newby what was the out come after a thousand posts it would only be right to finish with letting us all know.

Joe




3 DAYS to go Mr Navico

NEWBY
19-04-2010, 05:53 AM
Ya right mate, but there is nothing happening as yet as I have been so busy at work, I havent had time to go out and test the stuff.
Hopefully this week some time. I havent got 2-3 hours to lose at the moment. BUT I will certainly let you all know what is going on.

jake0
27-04-2010, 06:51 AM
Newby what was the out come after a thousand posts it would only be right to finish with letting us all know.

Joe

yep also keen to know whats happened,

wags on the water
27-04-2010, 10:33 AM
yep also keen to know whats happened,


refer post #197

jake0
27-04-2010, 11:15 AM
refer post #197


Yep, but that was "Another" week ago :rolleyes:

NEWBY
28-04-2010, 06:34 AM
Sorry Guys. Same answer so far.
I seriously have not had 3 hours to lose on these clowns at the moment.
I will post as soon as I have done the last of the testing.

jake0
28-04-2010, 02:25 PM
Thanks mate, the reason i ask is my boat is just about ready for paint and i was looking at the same set up as you have

NEWBY
29-04-2010, 06:53 AM
Gonna try to get out today. Will advise if I do and the results.

Tracker
08-05-2010, 09:57 AM
so what was the result newby??
I.ve been holding off waiting to see if this gets sorted.
cheers

trymyluck
08-05-2010, 01:02 PM
Yes mate, not like you have a business to run or anything......Get off ya bum and go fishing..........:grin::grin::grin:

NEWBY
10-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Righto guys, going out tomorrow 11/5/2010 to attach the "non hds" unit to the transducer. Will let you know tomorrow night what the outcome is. I did see Paul on Ifish using the HDS 10 yesterday and My picture looks nothing like his I can assure you. On another note, a friend has exactly the same problem with a Raymarine unit. When they put a 600w shoot thru transducer on it, works fine but when they hook up the 1kw thruhull, it cuts out at 16kn.

NEWBY
12-05-2010, 06:42 AM
Sorry, I am going out today 12th. You will never guess why I didn't go out yesterday. Ok you guessed, the supplier let me down, AGAIN.
Stand by.

piggin81
12-05-2010, 07:43 PM
just a quick thought as iam not real good at computers is it possible to send these chats strait to navico?????

finga
12-05-2010, 07:55 PM
just a quick thought as iam not real good at computers is it possible to send these chats strait to navico?????
Oh, I reckon they'd somehow know about this thread. :smiley:

TheRealAndy
12-05-2010, 09:10 PM
Oh, I reckon they'd somehow know about this thread. :smiley:

I reckon I could confirm that!!

NEWBY
13-05-2010, 07:47 AM
Ok I can confirm without doubt that they are monitoring this thread and many more in lots of other forums. Hell I even told them to come see what others felt about their products and service. One could almost suggest that a "counter thread" was started some time ago...Errr that did not work...

So, I got out yesterday and we hooked up a X125 or something to the transducer. Nice picture at 6 kn. Good at 10kn. Wound up to 14kn, still have a decent pic in the harbour so decided to lift the nose a little to get the boat to cruising setup.
Bottom lost....
So now I get told its the boats fault, however, after a minor Newby spit with my supplier and pointing out that my 600w Navman DOES NOT LOSE BOTTOM even at 21kn "Its the boats fault theory" lost credence. Now given the 600w transducer is in exactly the same place as the 1KW was, that blows the theory of "Its your boats fault" out of the water.
As it turns out, a bloke in a 31 Luhrs is having exactly the same problem with his Raymarine gear. 1kw Airmar transducer dropping out at 15 or 16kn.
Now this fella has had a 600w sounder hooked up and sitting in a bag of water IN the hull/bilge at 16-18kn and it works fine. Yep, shoot thru 600w works, and 1kw thru hull, does not. Even the new low profile one would not hold bottom at 16kn for him. They tried to tell him that it was his HULL design etc that was at fault but seeing the 600w work in a bag of water in the bilge sorta buggered that theory up.
Common denominator ?????
Airmar 1kw transducer.
I asked if anyone had bothered to talk to Airmar.....Errrr no......BUT we, sorry THEY, have come up with this remarkable new trial....Now I have to lose some more hours and they are making an adaptor to go from my Airmar 600w thru hull to the HDS10 to see if that will still hold bottom as we know the Navman does.
BUT this is the initial answer that I got when I rang the supplier yesterday after the water trials, and I quote, "well Dave we don't know, looks like you will just have to put up with it"n Hence the Newby spit.

I am going out this weekend so will try the 600w trial. However, like I said yesterday, what does it matter? I bought $9000 worth of equipment that does not do what it is advertised to do or what I was told it did.
As for the depth symbols turning with the orientation of the charts all the while all other writing is in its correct, readable format, I was promised IN DECEMBER that they had a fix on the way and would let me know when it was done....Still no word. Another empty promise from the OCEANIC manager who is in NZ.
Maybe it is another flaw in the NAVICO companies software that accidentally "promises you the world and only gives you an atlas"
That would not surprise me from their products.
Stay tuned, I am back in on Tuesday and will have all the results of the transducer swap available then.
Like I say, if it works or not, I don't care anymore, I will not settle for anything less than IT ALL WORKS or HERE IS YOUR CHEQUE BACK...
Watch this space on Wednesday.

leelee
13-05-2010, 08:40 AM
At least you now know what the common deonominator is for the problem. Seems to be the AIRMAR 1kw. There must be some releif knowing at least that?

Just be wary that when trying to prove the fault lies within the HDS units, the only real thing that this has proved is that a 3rd parties product does not work correctly with the HDS unit.

Cheers

Lee

Steeler
13-05-2010, 02:34 PM
I take my hat off to you Newby BIG TIME. to have gone through what you have both mentally and financially over this and to not have blood on your hands is incredible.

Needless to say the moral to your story is Stay away from this shite brand til they start taking ownership for there own rubbish.Passing on blame to a third party manufacturer is a load of crap.Some proper R & D would have brought to the surface these issues.

And if ever any fellow Ausfisher is in a store to purchase a product like this make it clear to the retailer/dealer this brand is not an option based on your experiences and heartache.

I hope it gets better for you.

Steeler

jake0
13-05-2010, 02:52 PM
Thanks for the feedback, i now think i will stick with the Furuno gear as i cant wait much longer,

TheRealAndy
13-05-2010, 03:18 PM
I want to buy a HDS sounder, but am waiting to see what happens here...

Jarrah Jack
13-05-2010, 03:24 PM
If it definitely turns out to be the transducer they should give you a cheque back and let you keep the unit to do with it whatever you want. You have done so much research and development for them Newby that they owe you at least that. Then they even may get a goods news story out of it too.

Greg P
13-05-2010, 03:57 PM
At least you now know what the common deonominator is for the problem. Seems to be the AIRMAR 1kw. There must be some releif knowing at least that?

Just be wary that when trying to prove the fault lies within the HDS units, the only real thing that this has proved is that a 3rd parties product does not work correctly with the HDS unit.

Cheers

Lee

3rd party products??? :grin::grin::grin::grin:


Airmar supply the majority of all OEM transducers to the major manufacturers (Furuno, Lowrance and raymarine etc), it is just the plug connection that change.

leelee
13-05-2010, 04:11 PM
3rd party products??? :grin::grin::grin::grin:


Airmar supply the majority of all OEM transducers to the major manufacturers (Furuno, Lowrance and raymarine etc), it is just the plug connection that change.

Totall understand but my point is that technically they are a 3rd party product that is connected to the units so whilst they supply a large percentage of transducers to all manufacturers can you honestly rely on the head unit manufacturer to asume fault of a transducer that does not work with thier head unit. I doubt it.

The response will be " that its the transducer that is causing the issues and since we do not manufacturer the transdcuer we cannot be at fault for the transducer not working with our unit" and Airmar will state "Our transducers work all all models and its not our fault thier units can't work work with our transdcuers"

Cheers

Lee

bluefin59
13-05-2010, 05:50 PM
And the drama comtinues ,your a better man than me newby i would have given up ages ago . This must be hurting navico as this thread is being discussed on other sites as well and people are turning against there products at a rate of knots just ask a few dealers that sell this stuff. personally i would like to have seen it all work as i like the idea of the technoligy with side and down scan but now with the shabby service that you and others have recieved i wont even think about it let alone take the chance that one of these units installed may luckily work as stated . The third party issue seems like a copout as airmar make transducers for all the big names without too many problems and they are supplied direct by navico i believe so havent they tested these either ,you should get a refund just on the principle that you have spent so much time on water testing for them . Lots of luck and hopefully an outcome in your favour is soon going to happen ...matt

Tracker
13-05-2010, 06:29 PM
Totall understand but my point is that technically they are a 3rd party product that is connected to the units so whilst they supply a large percentage of transducers to all manufacturers can you honestly rely on the head unit manufacturer to asume fault of a transducer that does not work with thier head unit. I doubt it.

The response will be " that its the transducer that is causing the issues and since we do not manufacturer the transdcuer we cannot be at fault for the transducer not working with our unit" and Airmar will state "Our transducers work all all models and its not our fault thier units can't work work with our transdcuers"

Cheers

Lee
If navico sell a unit with a 3rd party transducer then you would think they would test same setup and cover that unit to do as they advertise:angry:
If navico use this as an excuse for the unit not working as claimed the that would be a pretty p/poor result.:undecided:
A bit like a large car mob not covering some 4x4s due to tire problems...:lipsrsealed:

NEWBY
14-05-2010, 04:50 AM
At least you now know what the common deonominator is for the problem. Seems to be the AIRMAR 1kw. There must be some releif knowing at least that?

Just be wary that when trying to prove the fault lies within the HDS units, the only real thing that this has proved is that a 3rd parties product does not work correctly with the HDS unit.

Cheers

Lee
No relief at all Lee. Look back in the posts. I have been telling them that for 8 months.

Secondly, I am not trying to blame the HDS unit or prove the fault lies within it. I simply want my $9000 worth of gear to work like $9000 worth of gear. Honestly, I couldnt give a damn if it was the installers fault. Just want it working.

NEWBY
14-05-2010, 04:55 AM
I take my hat off to you Newby BIG TIME. to have gone through what you have both mentally and financially over this and to not have blood on your hands is incredible.

Needless to say the moral to your story is Stay away from this shite brand til they start taking ownership for there own rubbish.Passing on blame to a third party manufacturer is a load of crap.Some proper R & D would have brought to the surface these issues.

And if ever any fellow Ausfisher is in a store to purchase a product like this make it clear to the retailer/dealer this brand is not an option based on your experiences and heartache.

I hope it gets better for you.

Steeler
Cheers mate. The only blood will come in the courtroom mate as I bleed someones cheque book.
No matter what the result is this weekend, the unit does not do what it is advertised to do and I will go str8 back to the supplier. Merchantable Good Act. He has already signalled his intentions with his comment "I dunno Dave, you might just have to put up with it"
You can only imagine my reaction. To repeat it here would cause "another" infraction so I will refrain for now.
I am going to do some research into this with Airmar themselves.

NEWBY
14-05-2010, 04:58 AM
3rd party products??? :grin::grin::grin::grin:


Airmar supply the majority of all OEM transducers to the major manufacturers (Furuno, Lowrance and raymarine etc), it is just the plug connection that change.

Totally correct.
Having put a NON HDS unit on the transducer though and it did the same thing, I will suggest at this stage that it is a combination of hull and transducer problems. Even suggesting that (from the supplier) the transducer at 1kw is too sensitive???? Imagine if I ran a 2 or 3kw???

NEWBY
14-05-2010, 05:26 AM
I will keep a reserved comment at this stage because if I speak my true mind right now I will get banned from here and probably get so fired up I will end up on a plane to go extract teeth from a few smart arses that "work" for Navico.

To say I am $hitty is an understatement but this elevated yesterday with the suppliers attitude. "you may just have to put up with it"
A more incorrect statement could never have been spoken.
I will be heading out over the 100mtr mark this weekend as well. I haven't had the opportunity to try deeper water out yet.

To anyone thinking of buying HDS, I suggest that you do a whole heap of research before you hand over the cash. Use google and type in Lowrance HDS problems...
Moisture problems. Sonar setup problems. Radar problems. Chart problems. Incorrect tide time problems. etc etc.
The list goes on and on.

Then to be FAIR, type in Furuno problems.....

I will let you see the results for yourself.
This is a survey conducted on another site in the US.
Simple question, "has the customer service declined since Navico took over"

Thank you for voting!
Yes 80%
No 7%
About the same 13%


The good old bells curve. 80% 4 in 5 people.
There are literally thousands of stories the same.
I struggled to find any problems with Furuno customer service which was the second search option

Go to google and type in "furuno poor customer service" then do same for Navico and Lowrance. In fact, do it for any of the Navico products.

I was hoping that this thread would have gone beddy bies by now but it looks like it will turn into an epic novel over the next few weeks/months.

Awoonga
14-05-2010, 07:53 AM
Newby..Moisture problems yes two Hds units returned because of water in the unit. So l have now bought a H/Bird so far so good

murf
14-05-2010, 07:54 AM
:sad:

looking forward to the next chapter

the story is starting to get really interesting now :smiley:

hang in there fella

cheers Murf

NEWBY
15-05-2010, 07:25 AM
Cheers Murf. I think I will write a book on this when I am done. In fact, I reckon I could write a 500 page novel if I included my 4 years of owning Carnelpya.
Worth the thought.

So yesterday I go to Airmar site to see if I can get some idea on whats happening or if there is an alternative.
Looks like the alternative will be to go into competition with all these pr!cks and show what REAL customer service is. I emailed "Markwell Marine" in Cairns yesterday morning as they are the official distributor of Airmar Transducers.
Go on, have a guess what the response was???
Just take 1 guess.........


If you picked box number 1 "NOTHING. ZIP. DIDDLEY SQUAT. NO RESPONSE" You win.

Yep.... They are just as ignorant as the rest. Not even a "we will look into it" NO REPLY...

Stay tuned, as Murf says, it will get interesting from here on in.

Apollo
15-05-2010, 07:45 AM
What will the book be called Newby? F the F, F!

battler1
15-05-2010, 08:43 AM
Go to Sanctuary Cove Boatshow & stand on the Navico Stand then you might get some SERVICE .

Joe


Cheers Murf. I think I will write a book on this when I am done. In fact, I reckon I could write a 500 page novel if I included my 4 years of owning Carnelpya.
Worth the thought.

So yesterday I go to Airmar site to see if I can get some idea on whats happening or if there is an alternative.
Looks like the alternative will be to go into competition with all these pr!cks and show what REAL customer service is. I emailed "Markwell Marine" in Cairns yesterday morning as they are the official distributor of Airmar Transducers.
Go on, have a guess what the response was???
Just take 1 guess.........


If you picked box number 1 "NOTHING. ZIP. DIDDLEY SQUAT. NO RESPONSE" You win.

Yep.... They are just as ignorant as the rest. Not even a "we will look into it" NO REPLY...

Stay tuned, as Murf says, it will get interesting from here on in.

davo
16-05-2010, 06:46 PM
Well the chickens are coming home to roost for Lowrance. I gave them away in 1993. The worst units I have ever owned. Great when they run but will break down for sure. My opinions of there produces still haven't changed after all this time. Always buy gear that you can hop in your car and deliver for repair and also speak face to face with the agent. BLA aren't much better with technicial issues. They tried B.S. with me until I told them what I do for a job and they shut up very quickly. A bloke who works at one of the big chain stores told be of some horror stories with Lowrance service. All I can say is vote with your feet.

whiteman
17-05-2010, 01:33 PM
I've got $3k stashed away for a new unit and the HDS8 is the target - if they get this sorted. The Navico sales team must be selling well below forecast to keep Newby hanging on. If I was Saled Mgr I'd have written that $9k refund cheque around December last year (or maybe a $15k cheque with non-disclosure clauses)! What are they thinking?

I know that most guys are happy with their HDSs, but the reason I want to buy in Oz is the local service as we run this gear in a very harsh environment and things break. Navman and Hummingbird have been particularly helpful to me over the years but yet to test Lowrance backup as the x135 has been very reliable thus far.

TheRealAndy
17-05-2010, 01:37 PM
I've got $3k stashed away for a new unit and the HDS8 is the target - if they get this sorted. The Navico sales team must be selling well below forecast to keep Newby hanging on. If I was Saled Mgr I'd have written that $9k refund cheque around December last year (or maybe a $15k cheque with non-disclosure clauses)! What are they thinking?

I know that most guys are happy with their HDSs, but the reason I want to buy in Oz is the local service as we run this gear in a very harsh environment and things break. Navman and Hummingbird have been particularly helpful to me over the years but yet to test Lowrance backup as the x135 has been very reliable thus far.

That raises a good point. I guess you would have to wonder why its worth purchasing lowrance gear in AU. Buy it from the US, you get no warranty. Whats the difference here? In AU, you get warrante but the service is so crap its not worth paying the extra coin.

whiteman
17-05-2010, 01:48 PM
Yep, and this would be the first time I'd be running a single unit so I can imagine that if things can go wrong they would. And my boat gets smashed on most trips to the reef - no quiet backwaters for my Quinnie.

NEWBY
20-05-2010, 07:02 PM
Once again sorry for the delay but have been busy at work.
Went out on the weekend. Tried the 600w transducer from the Navman with an adaptor plug. Well it got a lot worse so that experiment failed. So I have got some more info on the HDS unit that did not thrill me. What you see on the screen is an amplified signal apparently. Not a great picture at all, a magnified version of what could be a very weak signal to begin with. Anyway, not my problem anymore.
Then the radar dome stuck on. Yep, the unit was turned off and the radar dome was still buzzin. Yeah they dont know either.
So when operating the radar, it kept turning itself to off. But was actually still reading cause the screen was showing stuff. But then a 50 foot boat only 0.9nm away would not show on the screen with the zoom at 2nm.
Anyway, after copping a spray from Chris at Markwell Marine (they didnt get my email and Chris took offence at my previous post. Probably a fair call. For someone to be as passionate about his response to my post probably didnt receive it. But someone there would have as it didnt bounce back)
So Chris has sent off to Airmar direct to see if there are any other cases and fixes. Chris is pretty good I must admit. I cant but think that he also has staff that let him down. I know the feeling.

It really doesnt matter anymore. I have asked for a full refund stating that 9 months, 5 transducers, 3 software updates, 3 different units, hundreds of phone calls and emails is enough.

We either put this to bed now or go to war.
I want my boat ready for he hookup in 3 weeks so they have until tomorrow to accept my request or I get all legal on their arses not to mention start a public awareness campaign, the likes they have never seen before.

I have started my search for my new setup to fill the many holes in my flybridge and hull.

Steve (Apollo), Yes mate the book will be called f the f'n f's. F em all the dty rtn c's.
Chapter 1, begins with.......... aw get the book and I will sign it for you.:wink:

finga
20-05-2010, 07:23 PM
Steve (Apollo), Yes mate the book will be called f the f'n f's. F em all the dty rtn c's.
Chapter 1, begins with.......... aw get the book and I will sign it for you.:wink:
Sign me up....

So sad to hear there seems to be no fix and the problems seem to be getting worse and worse.
Mate, how many times has your boat been taken out of the water and how many trips has your boat done trying to get this stuff to work??
The initial cost of the gear might be small in comparison by now.

honda900
20-05-2010, 08:06 PM
Sad to see that it all comes to this in the end, they wont pay you for your time and effort though.



What you see on the screen is an amplified signal apparently. Not a great picture at all, a magnified version of what could be a very weak signal to begin with

Exactly what I have found, if this wind ever dies down I will get some better video footage of what I see.


Regards
HOnda.

Jarrah Jack
20-05-2010, 08:37 PM
Sixteen pages and over fourteen thousand views...and counting..I'm thinking lowrance/navico gun, foot.

Just what do those guys at HQ in NZ think they are doing with their companies name..?

This thread is going to come up in those search engines for a long time to come...

On another note hope it all goes well for you Newby with whatever new unit you decide to go with.

Cheers

NEWBY
21-05-2010, 06:28 AM
Hey thanks to everyone for their support and input to this thread.
I have certainly learned a whole heap and tried everything to rectify the problem.
I have also upset a few people and definitely anyone associated with Lowrance/Navico.
I am uncertain as to what the response is going to be to my demand for a full refund but I am a man of my word and will post on every forum in the world if I cant FINALLY get some sort of (ex) customer satisfaction.
I will keep you all posted as to the outcome.
Could still make very interesting reading.

NEWBY
21-05-2010, 06:38 AM
Sign me up....


Mate, how many times has your boat been taken out of the water and how many trips has your boat done trying to get this stuff to work??
The initial cost of the gear might be small in comparison by now.

At least 6 trips out now.
5 of those have been during the week and in work hours.
So I lose 2-4 hours every time I go out to test "another" theory or supposed fix.

The boat has only been out of the water once to replace the transducer.

I have hit as point now where I am hesitant to get anything done on the boat cause I always have to do it again. Hesitant to buy anything new cause it seems to f**k up all the time. I am losing interest in the thing.
When I go down to the marina now its because I have to not because I want to do something on it or just sit on the deck and enjoy it. What used to be my stress relief has become a large part of the cause.
So with a poisoned mind about something I have busted my arse all my life to own, I dare Navico to reject my request. Even a slight hesitation will bring the wrath of Newby down on their arses like they have never experienced before.
The WWW gives a person the power beyond any Multi National company.
So Mr Navico, I know your monitoring this thread, what's it gonna be?

NEWBY
21-05-2010, 06:51 AM
Sixteen pages and over fourteen thousand views...and counting..I'm thinking lowrance/navico gun, foot.

Just what do those guys at HQ in NZ think they are doing with their companies name..?

This thread is going to come up in those search engines for a long time to come...

On another note hope it all goes well for you Newby with whatever new unit you decide to go with.

Cheers
Your right mate, so many views, replies and pages.
I am told that the Navico boys are watching and I think they are that dumb and money focussed instead of customer focussed, they will probably just up the advertising budget to compensate for the drop off in sales.
It seems they released the HDS too early and without the proper testing, instead deciding to let the "customer" find the problems. even that would have been
ok if 1) they paid us to do it and 2) they actually fixed the damn problems.

I have had a very similar experience with Samsung a few years ago. That time over a few hundred dollars worth of Microwave. We have not bought a single Samsung product since. I almost threw a party when they stopped being a sponsor of the Roosters. They spend MILLIONS of dollars trying to get us to buy their products yet for a few hundred, they could have kept us with them all along. We were already there. They already had us.
I use this philosophy in my business.
The customer is not always right but for a few dollars we can make 95% of the customers happy. Its only a few dollars after all.

trymyluck
21-05-2010, 07:01 AM
Sorry to see this end up as it has Newby, as you have said it could have been great. And I was so looking forward to updating to the HD5, oh well.

Mark

Steeler
21-05-2010, 09:36 AM
Can't others on here who are also members of other forums around the world attach a link in those forums to this thread,that would be a start.

The comment about attending the show and also talking to people at there stand also has merit,after all you are only conveying your experience with there products.

Steeler

Si
21-05-2010, 10:57 AM
wow, you just prevented me from buying lowrance. thank-you. thing is, a thread like this is seen by many and only grows larger through word of mouth and internet searches. Not good for lowrance.

davez104
21-05-2010, 11:09 AM
I'm another that is weighing up my options at what sounder to buy. I'm sold on the features of the HDS 8 or 10 with structure scan. If it were not for the increasing amount of threads like this one, I would be placing my order very soon. As it stands, I'll hold off for a while and see what happens over the next 6 - 12 months. The Lowrance is the unit I really want, but I would like a better than even chance of the thing working properly and I would also like to have comfort in the knowledge that if it doesn't, I will be looked after.

The Humminbird units come close to the same features, but fall a touch short I feel. No other manufacturer offers the technology that I am aware of. If Furuno releases a unit with this tech, I'll be punching my credit card numbers into their website so fast the plastic will be dripping from my wallet.

Anyway, time will tell I guess, but things don't look so bright for Lowrance or the consumer. We are both losing over all this.

Dave.

fishing111
21-05-2010, 03:07 PM
Sorry to say this, but if they (Navico) are monitoring this thread I don't think that they are really to concerned.Reason being I've seen you quite a few times in this thread say today's the day,one more day,counting down days to get legal on their arse,etc,etc.I think they might be having a bit of a chuckle at your expense,thinking that your all talk (them,not me).Hope you get it sorted,but if they haven't made restitution by now,there most probably not going to give you 9K in hand to go away,as for them the damage is done, in that you have sullied there reputation and continue to do so.If they did pay you out willingly, without being taken to court,what precedence would that send?I can hear you now, the proper bloody precedent.Personally I think its piss poor form on any manufacturers behalf to treat customers with contempt and I hope you get a result without going to court.

propdinger
21-05-2010, 04:56 PM
Newby
have you heard of anyone with the same setup that their unit works well or are you one of a few that bought that unit (radar gps sounder etc)and noone else in Aus has the setup?. im sure it would be good to talk to someone that had the same setup working although its too late now. im sure you will have to fight them. i had bad dealings with them 10 years ago and never will buy another of there products no matter the owners all over $140 im sure if it was my $9k i would be ropeable

bluefin59
21-05-2010, 05:28 PM
Sorry to say this, but if they (Navico) are monitoring this thread I don't think that they are really to concerned.Reason being I've seen you quite a few times in this thread say today's the day,one more day,counting down days to get legal on their arse,etc,etc.I think they might be having a bit of a chuckle at your expense,thinking that your all talk (them,not me).Hope you get it sorted,but if they haven't made restitution by now,there most probably not going to give you 9K in hand to go away,as for them the damage is done, in that you have sullied there reputation and continue to do so.If they did pay you out willingly, without being taken to court,what precedence would that send?I can hear you now, the proper bloody precedent.Personally I think its piss poor form on any manufacturers behalf to treat customers with contempt and I hope you get a result without going to court.




Mate i think you will find newby knows the queensland consumer affairs laws better than anyone here ,i know from an experience my wife had with a washing machine that NOT FIT FOR USE is something that NO company can escape in this state . Go to the qld government consumer affairs section ,i did printed of the laws ,presented the info and wham bam thank you mam , a full refund was given by a large electical retailer no problems after 9 months use . Newby has given them many if not too many chances to get this right so he would have no problem i would think . Also i have stated a number of times that i would have purchased one for the technoligy [side and down scan ] but no way in hell would i now also this thread has been posted on a few other sites here and o/s so lowrance will be feeling the heat i am sure ...matt:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

dodgyone
21-05-2010, 06:17 PM
I know I have posted the link one a couple of other forums whenever someone has asked about HDS units. I was holding off to see the end result as I did like some of the features but just splashed my coin on a boatload of Raymarine gear. May not be the latest and greatest but does what its supposed to.

TheRealAndy
21-05-2010, 06:29 PM
I really wanted an HDS, shame. They are now scrached from my list. dodgyone, I have used raymarine gear, its pretty good.

NEWBY
22-05-2010, 07:06 AM
Sorry to say this, but if they (Navico) are monitoring this thread I don't think that they are really to concerned.Reason being I've seen you quite a few times in this thread say today's the day,one more day,counting down days to get legal on their arse,etc,etc.I think they might be having a bit of a chuckle at your expense,thinking that your all talk (them,not me).Hope you get it sorted,but if they haven't made restitution by now,there most probably not going to give you 9K in hand to go away,as for them the damage is done, in that you have sullied there reputation and continue to do so.If they did pay you out willingly, without being taken to court,what precedence would that send?I can hear you now, the proper bloody precedent.Personally I think its piss poor form on any manufacturers behalf to treat customers with contempt and I hope you get a result without going to court.
Your right Paul, I have promised legal action a few times but they keep coming up with "one more fix" or idea. Any court of law will expect that I gave them every opportunity to rectify the problem. The fact I have gone way past that point will make my legal action VERY swift and mate, if you think the damage is done already, you are sadly mistaken. I have never been known as a patient person so after all this time you can but imagine the pent up frustration I have. Ultimately that will turn to anger which can only end in revenge. And I dont give a sh!t if it costs me 30k to do it...I have heaps of pictures of crap performance. Heaps of emails from Australia and NZ from their "technical guru's" I even have emails of offers of restitution as long as I gave up any legal rights of further claims.
It is poor form to say the least. Ya know that the "lowrance" dude in Sydney only works monday to thursday? Yep only a 4 day week for him. Friday is probably compulsory stress relief day to get over 4 days solid of customer complaints.
But they have picked the wrong fella if they believe that I will just go away and this will all die down.