Hissing Hubs

[Scalem]

This is not a game of "spot the obvious" but what do you guys think?

Backing the tandem axle dunbier trailer down the ramp, for the 1st time ever I noticed hissing and steam coming from the wheels/hubs somewhere.

Yep, it is time to put new bearings in, but only 8 months since new, I doubt the bearing buddies were installed correctly in the 1st place, but I have been pumping a few squirts of grease every second trip.

So when I pull the bearings out, here is a question I need some help with. Are the rear hubs the same as the front hubs with disk rotors bolted to the axle? I am going to buy a ford hub which I am told the dunbier has Ford, i will check the code stamped on the bearings just in case, and have a complete swap out hub pre packed in case of emergency.

I checked the hub that seemed to have been getting hot last weekend, and when you spin the wheel there was no audible grinding or excess play/movement in the hub, but I did notice a high spot in the disk rotor that caused the rotor to drag. Can dragging disc rotor cause that amount of heat or do you think it will be failing bearings somewhere?

Its Several hundred dollars of work if I get them done professionally, and I don't think I will wait that long till when the boat is due for a service, so keen to do the job myself. I guess I will know when I pull it all apart, then wizz down to get replacement bearings.

Scalem

[PinHead]

Brian..oil filled hubs are the way to go..had mine 2 years now and not touched the bearings at all.

disc pads can swell from the water and rub on the rotor..had that happen on a previous boat.

[HarryO]

Howdy....

Are your trailer brakes hydraulic or over-ride mechanical?

[Feral]

Do it now. Dont wait.

[STUIE63]

when buying bearings make sure they are name brand bearings

[murf]

Scalem

surely you have read something on this forum about bearings by now ::)

bearings too tight? you have to have some play when cold

Ford rims (stud pattern) with Holden bearings

Cheers Murf

ps sorry mate in a mood tonight :)

[ozbee]

be just from the disc rub. if they spin freely when lifted and no bearing noise being that close to knew . yes a brake disc rubbing can even melt the hub seal in extreme cases. dont go overboard greasing the bearing buddies as you will only fill the bearing hub full which will run hotter and excrete grease from the inner seal .

[purple patch2]

G'day Saclem
Is it possible that you had just done some heavy braking and put the boat in the water not long after. If so the steaming and hissing would of just been the disc rotor still being hot. Or maybe the adjustment of the brakes on your trailer is a bit tight. Or was the manual hand brake on the trailer (if its got one) left on. If you Jacked the wheel and had no play or noise the bearing should be OK . If your not sure just disassemble bearing clean and check. Cheers :)

[MickInTheMud]

Hissing means it's cooling down in a hurry.( too quick )

Pop the bearing caps off and if the grease is turning white you have a problem. ( It's been sucking in water)

I had a 10 month old stacer trailer with bearing buddies and it spat a bearing on the highhway.( the grease was black with no discolouration , suspect overtightening)( while my previous redco never had a prob in 3 years with no buddies.)

Got a dunbier duel under the 555 now and will pop the covers before my next outing. ( have not had your experience yet )

Cheers Mick

[bigjimg]

Can honestly say havn't experienced what you have described.I've got a dunbier under the Sig,probably the same one you've got.I've adjusted the brakes so they come on when the vehicle brakes heavy,or to put it another way at the end of travel on the actuater.That way they're not grabbing heavily when you touch the brakes lightly.Don't pump in too much grease or you will blow the seal out.The brakes need regular adjusting to keep them operating at their peak,cable stretch etc.Just in the off chance you didnt go through a puddle of water and wet the rotors??Keen to see how this pans out for you.Jim

[Scalem]

Brian..oil filled hubs are the way to go..had mine 2 years now and not touched the bearings at all.

disc pads can swell from the water and rub on the rotor..had that happen on a previous boat.
Hi Greg, That's a choice I should check, thanks. If you can readily get the parts from the regular auto shops that will be worth looking at.

Howdy....

Are your trailer brakes hydraulic or over-ride mechanical?

Harry I suspect hydraulic? Thats the master cylinder type arrangement behind the tow hitch that is then connected to cables that connect to the brake assembly at the wheel.

Do it now. Dont wait.
I hear you. I don't fancy being stuck on the side of the road, especially in the middle of summer.


Scalem

surely you have read something on this forum about bearings by now

bearings too tight? you have to have some play when cold

Ford rims (stud pattern) with Holden bearings

Cheers Murf

ps sorry mate in a mood tonight

Murf, if I didn't post because a subject had been covered off at some time in the past on AF, there would be no reason to post anything would there? What a lonely site this would be!! :P I was thinking of asking about how to use soft plastics, that subject is kinda new here too!;D;D Actually mate, I was hoping someone else who had a dual axle dunbier would volunteer to come do the work for me, had they done it B4! But no offense taken;)


be just from the disc rub. if they spin freely when lifted and no bearing noise being that close to knew . yes a brake disc rubbing can even melt the hub seal in extreme cases. dont go overboard greasing the bearing buddies as you will only fill the bearing hub full which will run hotter and excrete grease from the inner seal .

Good idea, I like it! I think the hubs are chockers full of grease, so this makes a lot of sense. I will check it.


G'day Saclem
Is it possible that you had just done some heavy braking and put the boat in the water not long after. If so the steaming and hissing would of just been the disc rotor still being hot. Or maybe the adjustment of the brakes on your trailer is a bit tight. Or was the manual hand brake on the trailer (if its got one) left on. If you Jacked the wheel and had no play or noise the bearing should be OK . If your not sure just disassemble bearing clean and check. Cheers

I thought all these things through. Manual override was once on by mistake. I now put a strip of velcro around the little positioning lever so there is no chance it can accidentally drop into position. Heavy braking? Same boat ramp as I always use, never noticed hissing before, so why now? None of the hills on the way to Manly have become steeper nor was i in a rush to get to the ramp ( More than usual)


Hissing means it's cooling down in a hurry.( too quick )

Pop the bearing caps off and if the grease is turning white you have a problem. ( It's been sucking in water)

Got a dunbier duel under the 555 now and will pop the covers before my next outing. ( have not had your experience yet )

Cheers Mick

Mick, I checked the bearings immediately I got the new rig, and I felt the bearings were over tight, and backed the nut off about a half turn, the wheels were obvoiusly not spinning freely... then;)

Thanks all for the replies.

Scalem

[timddo]

Man -> you sure love ur missus. ( boat)

I thought dunbier only used ford bearings on 40mm axels???. Scalem do you have 13inch or 14inch wheels. I recently upgrade all 4 of my wheels to 14inch. Now that is expensive.

Since ur upgrading the bearings brian. Mite be a good idea to upgrade those dunbier tyres they have on. they are shit quality, check for bubbles on the walls of the tyres.

Bearings are easy to change - but i have never done mine yet and it's over two years old. i have been neglecting them, so i should have a look one day.

You may want to check your brakes are disengaging. Also the brake cable should snap after 1.5 years too. I changed mine to stainless steel ( best thing i ever did)


Tim D is an expert in bearings i reckon.

[Scalem]

Man -> you sure love ur missus. ( boat)

I thought dunbier only used ford bearings on 40mm axels???. Scalem do you have 13inch or 14inch wheels. I recently upgrade all 4 of my wheels to 14inch. Now that is expensive.

Since ur upgrading the bearings brian. Mite be a good idea to upgrade those dunbier tyres they have on. they are shit quality, check for bubbles on the walls of the tyres.

Bearings are easy to change - but i have never done mine yet and it's over two years old. i have been neglecting them, so i should have a look one day.

You may want to check your brakes are disengaging. Also the brake cable should snap after 1.5 years too. I changed mine to stainless steel ( best thing i ever did)


Tim D is an expert in bearings i reckon.

Hi Timddo

They are 13" Ford trailer wheels. . I had to order my spare in specially, none of the tyre places or motor wreckers had a Ford 13" rim. As you already said, Ford standard rims are 14"

Same goes for the tyres, which are non standard, and difficult to match. My spare is not exactly the same because that is all I could find, ordering that in specially too, but only slightly narrower with the same load carrying capacity. Everything else about the profile is the same

Scalem

[timddo]

13 inch rims are for sale at repco. I paid $45 thanks to an ausfisher who showed me. If you want exact replica's of ur trailer wheels, i have 4 sitting at home.

When i wanted a spare the dealer wanted $320, so i went with the option through repco and a similar tyre like urs. After 15 months , i could see air bubbles on the side walls of those dunbier tyres.

I have since upgraded to 14inch with Light truck tyres. Guess what i purchased them from a good ausfisher for $60. Now thats 4 rims and 4 tyres. Bargain.

Now it's much easier to buy a spare and all wreckers have 14inch wheels.

[Getout]

For sure it will be the hot brake discs hitting the water. Your calipers must be jammed, preventing the brake pads from releasing. Typical boat trailer brake problem.

[Chimo]

Scalem

I wasn't going to comment but just had a quick look at whats been written; but Ive had similar issues on several trailers in the past.

One was from new as I bought the rig off the floor the second was some months old when i got it. In both cases the rotors were warped slightly and as result the pads touched and that was enogh to generate the heat that hisses if you back in without letting every thing cool down first. If so you may have sucked water into the bearings thru the rear seals.

To fix the heating issue get your rotors machined and even if you buy new rotors get them machined before you put them on and the problem of heating may well be overcome, based on my experience anyway. Good luck with it.

Cheers
Chimo

[Scalem]

Scalem

I wasn't going to comment but just had a quick look at whats been written; but Ive had similar issues on several trailers in the past.

One was from new as I bought the rig off the floor the second was some months old when i got it. In both cases the rotors were warped slightly and as result the pads touched and that was enogh to generate the heat that hisses if you back in without letting every thing cool down first. If so you may have sucked water into the bearings thru the rear seals.

To fix the heating issue get your rotors machined and even if you buy new rotors get them machined before you put them on and the problem of heating may well be overcome, based on my experience anyway. Good luck with it.

Cheers
Chimo

Thanks Chimo, That makes perfect sense. I guess when all is said and done, if I want any time on the water over the break, at the least I should pull the brakes apart and grease where the calipers sit in their assembly, pull the bearing buddies off and inspect the colour of the grease. Heck, if the trailer is jacked up I may as well put the whole thing on stands/ Bricks and do the whole lot. I still don't have an answer about the hubs being the same, front and rear, but I will find out soon enough when I pull it all apart. I will get the rotors machined too.

Scalem

[bigjimg]

Thanks Chimo, That makes perfect sense. I guess when all is said and done, if I want any time on the water over the break, at the least I should pull the brakes apart and grease where the calipers sit in their assembly, pull the bearing buddies off and inspect the colour of the grease. Heck, if the trailer is jacked up I may as well put the whole thing on stands/ Bricks and do the whole lot. I still don't have an answer about the hubs being the same, front and rear, but I will find out soon enough when I pull it all apart. I will get the rotors machined too.

ScalemRing Shane at Dunbier.They are at Ormeau just off the M1.He will tell you what is what and where.Jim

[Scalem]

Thanks Jim,

I did just that and I now know what's going on. Dunbier have two types, determined by the size of the axle.

If the square axle measures 40mm wide, they are holden HT bearings in a Ford stud pattern Hub.

If the axle measures 45mm it is Ford Bearings in a Ford Hub.

I have bought a brand new "Lazy" non breaked hub, a mounting bracket that fits on the winch post. It is fully ready to go, bearings packed, spare wheel mounted.

I also have two sets of new bearings which will be for the front braked hubs that are getting too hot, so when I have time, I'll rip it apart and try back the calipers off, but repack the bearings, even though the grease I can see when I take the bearing buddy caps off is normal, not milky. I wont know teill I take them off. Too many Christmas related things happening ATM to get a crack at it, will take photos when I get there.

Thanks all.

Scalem

[bigjimg]

While your there you might want to check the manufacture date of the tyres.I have checked mine they are 01.Makes them almost 9yrs old.If yours are up there don't trust them on the highway.Mine will be getting replaced early next year with new rims and tyres in 14inch.Bought mine new in 2008.Like I have said in previous posts Dunbier are 1 out of ten for me.Jim

[Scalem]

While your there you might want to check the manufacture date of the tyres.I have checked mine they are 01.Makes them almost 9yrs old.If yours are up there don't trust them on the highway.Mine will be getting replaced early next year with new rims and tyres in 14inch.Bought mine new in 2008.Like I have said in previous posts Dunbier are 1 out of ten for me.Jim

Thanks Jim.

I won't go quite as far as replacing Rims, these 13" will be OK, as rare as they are should you be stranded with busted rims on Fraser or somewhere. From what others have said and from my own research, the tyres on there which are 13 x 175 x 80 size are too uncommon as well, so the 1st excuse to P!ss them off I will replace them with the same as my spare, which is 13 x 165 x 80 - light truck tyre with the right load capacity.

Where do you find the date of manufacture? E15J is the only non tyre reference I can find on the tyre.

Scalem

[FrogBat]

Harry I suspect hydraulic? Thats the master cylinder type arrangement behind the tow hitch that is then connected to cables that connect to the brake assembly at the wheel.

I hear you. I don't fancy being stuck on the side of the road, especially in the middle of summer.
Scalem
In my opinion if you do not know which type of brake setup you have then you have not got the mechanical aptitude or knowledge to work on your brakes.
You should not touch anything mechanical on the trailer especially seeing you don't fancy been stuck on the side of the road.
Brakes should be taken seriously. They are there for a reason.
Ask the manufacturer about the hissing and if anything is astray and if the trailer is not that old it should be covered by warranty.

As a side note the front and rear hubs are the same IF you have 4 wheel brakes.
If you have 2 wheel brakes then the front hubs are different to the rear hubs.
The brake disc is integral to the bearing hub.

You will probably find the grease is milky now on or around the inner bearing seeing the hub/s have been cooled very rapidly and if the cooling was rapid enough the disk could have been damaged or buckled.

Pay a mobile mechanic to show you the ropes or do a TAFE course to learn about how to change/fix bearings and brakes. It's not as easy as it seems to do correctly.

PS I hope you used the correct grease when you greased the slide pins.
The use of an incorrect grease or the incorrect of the correct grease can cause an accident.

[TimD]

Tim D is an expert in bearings i reckon.

I might be an expert at outfishing bait fisherman but i don't know anything about bearings :tongue:


cheers tim

[timddo]

I might be an expert at outfishing bait fisherman but i don't know anything about bearings :tongue:


cheers tim


Tim it's not the bait or plastics that catches the fish. it's the boat driver :D .

As for doing a tafe course to change bearings - i think that is a bit over rated. Changing bearings is pretty basic.

Scalem , i would try to find the source of the problem first. Heat is casued by friction and to me there is only three scenarios.

1. Heavy breaking before arrival at the ramp - speed freak
2. Warped break pads or whatever it is called ( thus making the brake pads stay in contact with the hub
3. Stuff up bearings - but you should be about to test this out.



I'm got myself set on catching a malin and a mahi mahi in summer - So fishes watch out, you are in danger::)

[Scalem]

In my opinion if you do not know which type of brake setup you have then you have not got the mechanical aptitude or knowledge to work on your brakes.
You should not touch anything mechanical on the trailer especially seeing you don't fancy been stuck on the side of the road.
Brakes should be taken seriously. They are there for a reason.
Ask the manufacturer about the hissing and if anything is astray and if the trailer is not that old it should be covered by warranty.

As a side note the front and rear hubs are the same IF you have 4 wheel brakes.
If you have 2 wheel brakes then the front hubs are different to the rear hubs.
The brake disc is integral to the bearing hub.

You will probably find the grease is milky now on or around the inner bearing seeing the hub/s have been cooled very rapidly and if the cooling was rapid enough the disk could have been damaged or buckled.

Pay a mobile mechanic to show you the ropes or do a TAFE course to learn about how to change/fix bearings and brakes. It's not as easy as it seems to do correctly.

PS I hope you used the correct grease when you greased the slide pins.
The use of an incorrect grease or the incorrect of the correct grease can cause an accident.

Frog bat, thanks for your well meaning post, but I assure you, I am a quick learner. ;) As far as doing a Tafe course on brakes, I don't know if I need to go that far, I have a mechanic already lined up to give me a hand. I have since done the research and you are correct, the hub, front and back are different and I already know I can buy a hub complete with rotor for $58.00 which is galvanized. My mistake if you thought I was totally ignorant, but I was inviting conversation and still needed a game plan, which other AF members here have helped to create. It's all related to time ( or the lack of it) to ask for opinions on this site before I had done enough research. That's part of creating a post, is to also create conversation that everyone can learn from.

One thing I do want to do is gain enough knowledge to be able to repair or get myself out of trouble if stranded because of a failed bearing. Having a brake expert on tap then is out of the question.

Scalem

[Getout]

In my opinion if you do not know which type of brake setup you have then you have not got the mechanical aptitude or knowledge to work on your brakes.
You should not touch anything mechanical on the trailer especially seeing you don't fancy been stuck on the side of the road.
Brakes should be taken seriously. They are there for a reason.
Ask the manufacturer about the hissing and if anything is astray and if the trailer is not that old it should be covered by warranty.

As a side note the front and rear hubs are the same IF you have 4 wheel brakes.
If you have 2 wheel brakes then the front hubs are different to the rear hubs.
The brake disc is integral to the bearing hub.

You will probably find the grease is milky now on or around the inner bearing seeing the hub/s have been cooled very rapidly and if the cooling was rapid enough the disk could have been damaged or buckled.

Pay a mobile mechanic to show you the ropes or do a TAFE course to learn about how to change/fix bearings and brakes. It's not as easy as it seems to do correctly.

PS I hope you used the correct grease when you greased the slide pins.
The use of an incorrect grease or the incorrect of the correct grease can cause an accident.

What is the correct grease on the slide pins? Won't bearing grease do?

[finga]

What is the correct grease on the slide pins? Won't bearing grease do?
I use a really high temperature bearing grease or nickel based never-seize on the pins seeing they're usually stainless and steel.
Check the rubber seal bit too as they tend to fall apart.

Renewing bearing is not that easy sometimes.
If you have not got the right tools or know what to look for in relation to types of failure and correct installation then you could get yourself into strife.
It's not a matter of whacking the old ones out and punching a new set in with a hammer and pinpunch or screwdriver.
It's not hard to 'bruise' a bearing cup or to not press the cup fully home.
Either of these could cause a failure on the road.

As for the spare hub I would be getting a new disc type hub because if you need to use the spare hub when you have a failure on the highway and you only have a non-braking type then you will not have brakes.
The disc type hub can be interchanged with a non-disc type.
Get the discs machined on the trailer as well.

Gees I hope your not going to do it in your driveway Brian??
You really need somewhere really flat for a boat/trailer your size.

[Scalem]

I use a really high temperature bearing grease or nickel based never-seize on the pins seeing they're usually stainless and steel.
Check the rubber seal bit too as they tend to fall apart.

Renewing bearing is not that easy sometimes.
If you have not got the right tools or know what to look for in relation to types of failure and correct installation then you could get yourself into strife.
It's not a matter of whacking the old ones out and punching a new set in with a hammer and pinpunch or screwdriver.
It's not hard to 'bruise' a bearing cup or to not press the cup fully home.
Either of these could cause a failure on the road.

As for the spare hub I would be getting a new disc type hub because if you need to use the spare hub when you have a failure on the highway and you only have a non-braking type then you will not have brakes.
The disc type hub can be interchanged with a non-disc type.
Get the discs machined on the trailer as well.

Gees I hope your not going to do it in your driveway Brian??
You really need somewhere really flat for a boat/trailer your size.

Yep, agree with you Scott on all fronts, I used to do the Mustang trailer no probs, which was unbraked. I will get a new rotor/ hub for the front soon, I will wait till I get these suckers off, machined, and back in, just to make sure I don't make two trips because one disk is cracked or something stupid.

You have not seen my place recently - level concrete car port with colourbond roof makes for a perfect place to work on it. Car parked in front of it and it's not going anywhere:D

Scalem

[FrogBat]

Frog bat, thanks for your well meaning post, but I assure you, I am a quick learner. ;) As far as doing a Tafe course on brakes, I don't know if I need to go that far, I have a mechanic already lined up to give me a hand. I have since done the research and you are correct, the hub, front and back are different and I already know I can buy a hub complete with rotor for $58.00 which is galvanized. My mistake if you thought I was totally ignorant, but I was inviting conversation and still needed a game plan, which other AF members here have helped to create. It's all related to time ( or the lack of it) to ask for opinions on this site before I had done enough research. That's part of creating a post, is to also create conversation that everyone can learn from.

One thing I do want to do is gain enough knowledge to be able to repair or get myself out of trouble if stranded because of a failed bearing. Having a brake expert on tap then is out of the question.

Scalem
Oh dear. My second post back and I have upset someone.
I am sorry if you took offence but anybody not knowing what type of brakes they have does not lend themselves to be very mechanically minded to me.

The best thing you can do is to do what Pinhead has said and get some oil filled hubs (ie dura-hubs or similar) installed then you will have next to no problems and if there is a problem it is instantly recognised by milky oil in the sight glass or window.
For a better job get a speedy sleeve or similar fitted onto the axle at the same time as machining of these axles is not the best for seals.
The oil filled hubs may seem a lot of expense but you may never have to instal new bearings ever again so the cost of the oil filled hubs will be a fading memory by the time new bearings are needed.
How much is a good set of bearings now?
How much are the dura hubs now?? They used to be about the $100 mark when I left.
I've been out of the country too long.
Bye from Miss Froggy:kiss:

[finga]

Got to agree about the dura hubs.
Get a set or two and forget....well nearly forget. You have to keep an eye on the little windows.
Good idea about the speedy sleeves too :)

I hate bearing buddy's. They fall off and blow seals out if not used correctly...and that's easy to do.

[Marlin_Mike]

Hissing Hubs????????? Try saying that fast while pi**ed...........::) ;D


Mike

[honda900]

Scalem,

Have a look at the return spring on your mechanical brakes as well, I found I had a disk overheat as a result of one of the return springs working its way out and the caliper did not return.

Mechanical brakes are not rocket science by any means of the imagination, If you have the Alko brakes then have a look on their web site for the complete breakdown of the units, very straight forward.

PS, great to see the yalta with a bit of Jewie blood on the floor. ;D

Regards
Honda.

[Scalem]

Well, the job is done!

Prognosis is that the central retaining nut ( with split pin through slots and axle) was over tight on the braked hub, drivers' side. That's corrected.

Rotor is dragging a little on one side, but greasing of the slide and adjustment of the inside bolt that eliminates play on the inside disk pad has been done. There has been no water penetration on any of the 4 hubs, grease is clean, no milkyness, and bearings and their race are perfect. Repacked but replaced front two braked hub bearings, and back in.

Here is a shot of the brakes assembly once put back together
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Brakes.jpg

On getting my hands dirty, I also discovered a potential disaster in the making. The cable that runs from the front of the trailer, from around a pully, splits to the two mechanical brakes at either side. A welded loop on the underside of the trailer, just before the cable splits to each of the wheels, rubs on the cable. After only 8 months the cable plastic outer has worn through, exposing raw metal of the cable, which has already begun to rust slightly. I plan to run a pully mechanism where the loop is, eliminating rubbing of the cable. Can't be too hard to design better,here is a photo if it helps to explain it.

http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/cable2.jpg
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/Cable1.jpg



Here is the new spare setup with lazy hub packed with grease, ready to go!
http://i414.photobucket.com/albums/pp223/Scalem/lazyhubandspare.jpg

Glad to have learned how she pulls apart, I can confidently do roadside repairs should the need ever arise.:D

Scalem