Beware if purchasing a pontoon

[Ninja]

Just a word of advice if considering a dry berth pontoon. So you don't get stung like I do please don't consider it binding if the company views your boat and spec sheets and describes how you wife will be able to launch and retreive the boat with ease. After attempts to construct the pontoon were made by one guy that 'I usually don't do these setups' and the other guy that 'usually just wraps pallets but is taking over for the usual guy that got his arm crunched' we decided it was time to retreive the boat. To keep a long story short....cause this story could go on quite long::) .....after some scary attemps, damage to my boat without any apology but to be told to leave my boat (now with a section of gelcoat blown out...possibly from the 2 rollers they CRUNCHED against my hull or mabey the others that split) with the promise they will return the following day with a solution. This promise was extended for the following day....then again....then until the following monday. When no arrival monday (after a weekend of repairs done to my hull at my cost) and the constant inability for anyone form the company to return my calls I resorted to threatening if I was not contacted to let me know what was happening that I would have to contact office of fair trading. The reply I finally got after no contact 4 days in a row was this email..-
The initial standard 2000kg roller system was purchased with the inclusion of clause 8.2 of the purchase agreement's terms and conditions which you have signed to indicate your acceptance thereof. This clause reads: ""the master of tides..as I will call them" does not warrant that the installed goods will be suitable for any particular use or any particular vessel.".
I called the man that came out and viewed the spec sheets and decribed the ease of their system to me but he explained to me that he has been instructed not to talk to me.

OK....ranting again.
Point form IMO is to ask BUT ensure it in writing

-company's responsibility to damaged occured to your boat at their fault
-get it in writing that if you buy a dry berth pontoon for your boat.....that the pontoon they build will be able to dry berth your boat
-that the company will build to australian standards
-what exactly you get down to the point (even those things that you think should be obviously included at no additional expence)....such as
---your pontoon will float somewhat level. At least to the point where the alloy frame is out of the water and there is no concern of leaning the pylons (I'm buying additional floatation from a competitor while I pay them to rectify other issues)
---the dredging to prepare the site and dig in the pylons may include preparing the area so the pontoon is not built on a mountain of sand which was difficult for the private dredging company I had to pay to dredge underneath to reduce the amount the pontoon leans to the deeper water when it sits on bottom at low tides possibly pulling the pylons over. Whoa...what a sentance!
---or mabey just simple things like when a winch thats rated to 250kg is doubled over to 500kg but a 320kg tow hook is used...that you don't have to go out yourself and replace it. Now I know i was told over and over how safe it was but when I was later told the first time I launched my boat (longer story to get to this point::) ) not to stop and start the winch on decent or stand behind the winch as if the hook gave way it would go through my head...my confidence dropped.
--and...I think I'm getting my point across.
Biggest lesson for me....being a trusting guy....don't part with your money even if demanded until EVERYTHING is done as promised. Yeah...not the brightest bulb am I....and mabey research my company better.
....and check everything and replace and fix as required once your fortunate enough to have finished dealing with the company...then get the major problems fixed professionally.
...AND....DON'T use the company that calls themselves the 'master of the tides'. You think you are saving yourself a thousand here...but it bites back hard later. The more I dug the more I realised I am far from their first victim.;D
I encourage if anyone has anything to add or personally know and would like the company to respond.
Merry Xmas
nhow-bring on the long hot summer days pushing through the warm colbolt waters;D

[bluefin59]

What a disgrace , jump on the consumer affairs site there is a thing where anything you purchase must be suitable for use, get them to give you a refund and take there piece of garbage away . That thing is a joke it looks like they have no idea of your needs mate,i hope it all pans out well for you .matt

[Chimo]

Hi Ninja

From my canal travels it seems very common to see the "starter roller set" immersed in the drink which as you suggest cannot be good. A similar setup to yours I was told by a neighbour, resulted in the boat sinking as it was released too fast and ended up spearing tailfirst under the surface, where it stayed for days as the winch / pontoon setup was obviously underrated to retrieve it. (Which was sort of understandable as it was full of water::) )

Another older neighbour has a similar set up and the boat rarely enters the water due to the difficulty of both putting it in and getting it out.

After you have got your money back IMHO perhaps consider an air berth style lift or even an enclosed wet berth system as alternative boat care systems?

Cheers
Chimo

Once again it appears the vendor sold an item not fit for purpose and so you should make a claim through consumer affairs / small claims

[Horse]

Its not fit for purpose so you should a good case to push. Open ended disclamers such as the one he pulled out are not worth the paper they are written on.
The angle on those first rollers holding the full weght of the boat must cause issues

Good luck with it

[Chimo]

PS Where are the rear stabilizing rollers? or am I not seeing them in your pics?

Cheers
Chimo

[Roughasguts]

This is where it's good to pay by credit card!
Just a call to your bank and the money is refunded! then things get sorted pretty fast.

[fishing111]

How does that work R/guts,or how would it of helped in this situation?What could,or better yet, what would the bank do?Can they with-hold the payment on any purchase your not happy with a purchase, and if so i will be buying on CC all the time from now on.
Cheers

[garman1]

A call to ACCC I think, there are basic rules that are in place to protect consumers...."does it do the job that it was intended to do?". That is one rule, seems to me that the system that was fitted does not do the job it was intended to do..............................

I think some free advertising for the company might be needed??? Perhaps a large sign on the pontoon advertising their product, just to let people know which system to go with and which one to avoid. I don't think you can get done for slander, so long as you stay with the facts.

Keep photos and tape record all phone or business conversations with this company.

Maybe go as far as a lawyer.....

[Bros]

the constant inability for anyone form the company to return my calls

Now I wonder who that company is?

Not nice to deal with are they?

I believe one of their salesperson used to log on but I notice he hasn't logged on for 8 months.

[the gecko]

Time to get a lawyer.

[Roughasguts]

How does that work R/guts,or how would it of helped in this situation?What could,or better yet, what would the bank do?Can they with-hold the payment on any purchase your not happy with?If so i will be buying on CC all the time from now on.
Cheers

I got double dipped for parking one month! charged me for 26 days and only parked on 13 of the days.

I rang the bank (Wespac, theiving double dipping crooks themselves! considering the last RBA intrest rate increase )and they reversed the transactions on my statement as the payment was in dipute. They send of a letter to confirm the return of your money to you! and the vendor.

It's that easy.

Then if you like a phone call to release some, or all of the money! if and when your happy too.

Cheers

[Hell Boy]

What a sham and i hope they fix up this problem, as for there clause "the master of tides..as I will call them" does not warrant that the installed goods will be suitable for any particular use or any particular vessel.". who makes a product like this and then has a cause saying that there product isn't warranted to work. they don't have much faith in their product. i have to agree with the others and see a lawyer for advice and go from there.

[Ninja]

Thanx heaps for all your replys. I'm paying another company to recify the issues. If I can get it working safely and properly then so be it. Better then another phone conversation where you can not get a word in or a visit where I was told I was obstructing because when I asked 'what if you break my boat' after previous damage the only answer I could get was 'we will deal with that when it occurs'.


Anyhow.....just wanted to rant and burn off some steam and hopefully make them realise that one customer treated unfairly can protect other potential customers. Other then that, all in all the pontoon (after touchups by me and others) looks great and when it works and floats properly....the family will be catching many fish from it.

[Fido]

I have a pontoonm air dock and have had driveon docks.

Glaringly?

My first observation is that the system you have ben sold is not suitable for the type and size boat that you have.

[Mr__Bean]

Just watch how much load it puts on the mid section of the boat when it sits up that high, looks like it would be better if it tilted a bit to reduce the load on the hull, like a tilt trailer does.

- Darren

[ashh]

I'm paying another company to recify the issues. If I can get it working safely and properly then so be it.

WTF?
why cop it on the chin AND let others get burned? These kind of businesses love customers like you, they expect you'll go away and then they move on to the next unsuspecting poor bastard.
Grow a pair and stand up to them, don't settle for anything less untill you get your money back OR you get what you paid for and dont stop untill you get it or they will keep on ripping people off...

ps. nice boat

[propdinger]

Ninga J
even tho they wrote on the contract no warranty its by law everything you buy has warranty on it no matter what they say. its by law that they have to warrant it. as you bought it to do a certain job and paid good money in good faith i would kick there arses atleast go to consumer affairs. otherwise they will get away with it and others will get caught out. after all thats why we have the law to look after all partys concerned isnt it atleast make them pay for fixing it and your boat. its not just the money but the fact they think they can sell a product that doesn't do what you were told it should do and they would of seen your boat when they came out to check the site. make em pay i say :)

[Taroona]

I am not a lawyer, but I had a problem with Nissan. The outcome was that I believe that section 26 of the trade practices act refers to items being "fit for there intended use".

If what you say is correct then the item you have is not fit for it's intended use and I would seek legal advice on the matter and not recitfy it until you have been down this track because warranties can be null and voided if you alter the item.

[NEWBY]

I have a 35 Bertram...11 tonnes of glass and wood...I purchased a "Seapen" a couple of years back and although the pen itself has had a few drama's, I can not speak highly enough about the company itself.. Every problem has been jumped upon and fixed without second or third phone calls....If they say they will call you, they do...Paul, (although a Kiwi) is their installer and fixit man. There is nothing he will not do to make sure that you are a happy customer... We often rant and rave about poor srevice and workmanship (LOWRANCE ARE CRAP WITH BOTH) but fail to recognise and promote the good ones....The boys from seapen are second to none and coming from me, that is the highest compliment a company can receive. Ninja, good luck mate...There is nothing worse than poor service.
Try quoting the "merchantable goods act" to the supplier of the goods. Look it up on line...Very powerfull act.

[NEWBY]

Ninga J
even tho they wrote on the contract no warranty its by law everything you buy has warranty on it no matter what they say. its by law that they have to warrant it. as you bought it to do a certain job and paid good money in good faith i would kick there arses atleast go to consumer affairs. otherwise they will get away with it and others will get caught out. after all thats why we have the law to look after all partys concerned isnt it atleast make them pay for fixing it and your boat. its not just the money but the fact they think they can sell a product that doesn't do what you were told it should do and they would of seen your boat when they came out to check the site. make em pay i say :)

Gees Propdinger, consumer affairs havent been around for ever....:D

Ministry For Fair Trading in the intended government body but not worth the phone call or written submission and 3 month wait... Do it yourself.... Use a lawyer. His or Her fees are claimable WHEN you win...Make sure they pre determin their charges and add them to your claim...
You will win this and then go and get something that is suitable for the job.... Try "seapen" They seem to have a few different docking ideas.

[Jarrah Jack]

Thanks for letting everyone know the situation.Thats how we can avoid a similiar thing happening to ourselves. Could you let us know who is doing the rectifing and if you can recommend them.

Hope all goes well.

[MyWay]

hire truck get all out of water and take back to them and ask just nicely for dollars back
u know what i mean

my way

[vertico]

yerh tow it down to a boat ramp and drag it up the ramp onto a tilt tray and take that rubbish back mate....that looks so dangerous and can only be doing damage to your rig.

[Vic1]

WTF?
why cop it on the chin AND let others get burned? These kind of businesses love customers like you, they expect you'll go away and then they move on to the next unsuspecting poor bastard.
Grow a pair and stand up to them, don't settle for anything less untill you get your money back OR you get what you paid for and dont stop untill you get it or they will keep on ripping people off...

ps. nice boat

Don't doubt he's got balls to stick up for himself ashh, he's just a nice bloke who doesn't want to deal with the grief......
In regards to the angle in the photo, I think that's pretty normal (my friend has a similar set-up and at one stage in the winching his boat is at a similar angle)
Id outright name the company Ninjamission so if there is anyone else out there they will not have to go through the crap you have........

[Ninja]

Cheers for all the replies. All I wanted to really do was put my post and leave it as there may be a case made if any issues within warranty period..... but it's only fair to tell how it ends. I hate typing so I'll keep it as short as I can.
After the email I felt they were washing their hands of me....without my boat ever making it fully onto the pontoon. Luckily I heard from a little birdy that there slabs are not possibly built to Australian thickness. With all the repeated threats of fair trading, solicitors, bad word of mouth etc it was mention of that that I think got them to finally return. That's when I asked about 'what if you break my boat' after I repaired the last damage to be told only 'we will deal with that when and if it happens'. At this stage let’s say I was glad I managed to control them little balls of mine because I'll leave it at saying I was very close to giving them a good reason to not have to return. Well....finally.....after a few things back and forth....we agreed to meet again after being emailed pictures of a customised example of a solution. The guy I met with had great ideas and solutions but what seemed like immediately after a phone call from the office he unbolted the original tilt arm and mentioned they were going to further modify it. It was brought back and I operated the winch to take responsibility for damage. It worked to a level I accepted (have to be careful my wording). They left...I checked everything and repaired and tightened what I could and paid to get the area dredged to float the pontoon at low tides. Next week I thought I'd give them a friendly call and mention that the pontoon is still tilting at a level where the alloy frame is suffering electrolysis by being submersed in water and the tilt arm is back heavy not allowing the boat to be fully retrieved onto the pontoon. I was asked where there additional $1000 was for the custom modified roller set. The pic of what he described I'd get is below but what I did get was my old tilt arm with a few more rollers welded on. I'll try to post a finished pic soon. They then said they would fix the floatation once I pay the $1000. I asked for them to return to see the problems and say HOW they will fix them. At this stage they have 0% trust with me. I ask they email me their solution so I can pay the $1000 straight away. The reply the next day was possibly something like this-
You owe us $1000 for custom modifications, regardless of the further additional work I have offered to do without charge purely as a measure of goodwill, if you have paid your overdue amount by yesterday. You have not paid your overdue amount by yesterday and I withdraw my offer to do any additional work without charge. The additional work as discussed is only to satisfy your requests, it is not rectification of a defect. The pontoon is complete and the current lean on it is within the acceptable tolerance.

I will not keep on ridiculously arguing around in circles about this. Your overdue amount remains outstanding and no further discussions will be entered into before you have remedied your arrears.

A pontoon repair company and I since have repaired the pontoon and for not too much money it all seems to be working fine for the time being.
Now I'm not here to put my side across or tell what I said and did. There is a lot more issues and influences involved in my decisions. Others can just see how crap the pontoon mob is. I am not one to back down from a fight or what's right but I'm also not one looking for a fight. I weigh it all up and take action however I feel best. If the pontoon continues to work from here in how it is working (to my knowledge) at the moment......then I'll be happy and I'll leave it at that. It no longer has the faults at the start of the story due to both companies modifications. Seems to work and the boat builder gives the new pics the thumbs up. Still is steeper then I originally thought but the weight, unusual hull shape etc had their competitor tell me they could not get it onto a pontoon. Not to take away from me being told by my chosen company how easy everything would be. Just remember the effectiveness of word of mouth in a small area like the Gold Coast. After just finishing civil action with a car company -another story...probably worse than this as it involved my family repeatedly.....I'm happy to tie up some loose ends in renovations and start fishing again.

I'll leave the other company out of it. Purely cause they seem like a good mob, talked to them for a while, they had their opinions , but in my opinion are probably kept in business by them .

You been fishing John? Would you tell me when the pelagics come in the bay or have I been ousted now living down here?

Damn....what a long post

[Ninja]

Sorry...think I stuffed the font some how. I'ts 1am so you'll have to live::)

[Camo]

Originally Posted by paul251 http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=1105910#post1105910)
How does that work R/guts,or how would it of helped in this situation?What could,or better yet, what would the bank do?Can they with-hold the payment on any purchase your not happy with?If so i will be buying on CC all the time from now on.
Cheers

I got double dipped for parking one month! charged me for 26 days and only parked on 13 of the days.

I rang the bank (Wespac, theiving double dipping crooks themselves! considering the last RBA intrest rate increase )and they reversed the transactions on my statement as the payment was in dipute. They send of a letter to confirm the return of your money to you! and the vendor.

It's that easy.

Then if you like a phone call to release some, or all of the money! if and when your happy too.

Cheers

It's called a 'Charge back.' You gotta love it, I've had it done successfully a couple of time through my bank. It takes a little bit of effort, sending emails and any documentation that you have, and it could take a couple of weeks to get your money back, but it works. It's good when you buy stuff on the net, that doesn't get delivered.

Cheers,

Camo

[Tracker]

Sorry...think I stuffed the font some how. I'ts 1am so you'll have to live::)
J,I think you stuffed the pic also.that dont look like a hooker!:)

[SnapHead101]

You need to name the company in this forum. You can't be sued for telling the truth, make sure it is factual. This will then help the rest of us from making the same mistake in choosing this company.
I bought an airberth from Sunshine Coast Boat Lifts .. excellent company and product, can't recommend highly enough.

[ShaneC]

So... what is the outcome?? All seems very confusing trying to read about it, and the boat in the pic obviously isn't yours. I am interested to know mate...

Cheers,

Shane

[propdinger]

Ninja

put a sign up once its all done stating that they do crap work and you dont recommend them on the pontoon and take a pic and send it to them. i know if i was cruising past i would read it if it stood out and bad advertising spreads quicker than good.


Shane im pretty sure its his boat in the pic mate and it looks like it "works in all tides"

[ShaneC]

Oh ok, the pic in the first post is of a Hooker with a completely different background. I am pretty sure the latest pic is not a Hooker!! Or am I missing something???

[Ninja]

The pic of what he described I'd get is below but what I did get was my old tilt arm with a few more rollers welded on.

The 2nd pic was to describe what they said they would use as a final solution somewhere in my story. They ended up (after a fight) modifying the existing tilt arm to a working level one last time but there solution was still flawed. It ends with me and two blokes squeezing a few foam matresess under the pontoon, making some adjustments to the pontoon and tilt arm and positioning of the boat and me possibly willing to let it all go if there are no more problems. If the end result and cost was what I have now I would have only been slightly disappointed. What happened when it didn't work and how they dealt with the issue and me (or chose not to) was the complaint. The problem is the company and there unbeleivable ability to just not give a crap about anything else then the handover of money. There dishonesty, childish behaviour, lack of workmanship and total lack of confidence in their own product has to be experienced to be believed.
I'll try to take a pic soon of the finished pontoon. It's working now and even launched my 1st trip last monday. Nothing connected but what a majic day out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocf0_J6QP0g

[Dantren]

Hey ninja.
Are you backing off the throttle when the fish strikes? If so, do the opposite.
Upon strike, give the throttle a smooth punch & you should improve your hookup rate by sinking the hooks, rather than creating slack.

Those conditions are magic alright. Mahi Mahi. Yummmmm!!!!!

[Ninja]

The first run dropped the hooks before I jumped into action. If still connected I usually try to accelerate or strike the fish but when they drop the hook I sometimes quickly freespool the lure and crank it back into position. To be honest what happened after the 2nd strike was purposly edited out:-/ . Instead of another pass with what worked....I quickly thought I'd livebait them. Bad move. I hate fishing with 5 lures out solo. Accellerating the fish out of the spread is usually my only hope. Not getting overexited to jump on a rod or clear lures is the problem.::)
(see here for crew- http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=1109601#post1109601 ) .

Just missed this one strike. Last dollie caught a while ago was my 1st fish finally seen tracking a lure from my boat. Should I be looking at fitting a tuna tower now it's not under a carport.:o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7TgExbKkzo
Hijacking my own post::) . It's better reading then pontoon problems and I'm itching badly to fish again after so much dry time.

[FrogBat]

By Jiminey the name on that boat seems familiar.

Is that you Jay??

[Ninja]

No. Jay was banned. Easily mistaked for him but my boat is better and I actually sometimes catch a fish rather then just using photoshop;)
We did better on monday (well deserved after all the missed strikes) and hope to sneak out for at least a 3 hour run offshore tomorrow. I'll upload one of the strike vid tomorrow. Viewing frame by frame to get the still shot below showed how fast the lure was hit (on Fadil's fish). The crest is the wake from the fish turning hard on it's dorsal fin when hitting the lure. Also got one from the previous trip.
You can also see the fish hit the lure.....and band pop.....and Nicole wake up off the floor and jump onto the rod......and the fish pop off:( ....and me being devistated....again.

If you need a boat to put on your pontoon....back closer to the subject...I've got to give Hooker boats a plug. The boat John has built me was beyond expectations and is only impressing me more every time it's used. We sat on a comfy 40knot the whole way back on monday but in messy seas is where it shines.

[Jabba_]

Hi ya Ninja, I saw you out there on Tuesday, How did you go.. On monday we had a ball with the Dollies in that same area, but Tuesday was notso good... We had a hit from a small black out in 120m off water, and that was it for the day... We could not even find any decent balls off bait... We trolled from up near Black king reef, down too the Fish traps....