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indy
05-12-2009, 06:46 PM
G'day guy's

I bought a belco trailer about a month ago and have been going over it with techyl for a further rust prevention so i have only got around to putting the boat on the trailer today. First off all i have a few questions regarding the trailer as i am not completely happy yet.

First question going by the photos do you think the boat is sitting to high on the trailer going by the gap between the bottom of the boat and the guards. (This is as low as it can go by the way.)

Second question should the boat go back any further or forward or is it about right going of the back of the skids.

Also should the skids sit where i have them now or have i got it all wrong.

All opinions would be great

Thanks pete...

Feral
05-12-2009, 07:03 PM
Check your draw bar down weight to see if you need to adjust the boat back or forward.

If you can get it lower over the guards I would, I run about 10mm clearance between hull and guards, the closer to the water, the less you have to back in!

I cant see your rollers, so cant comment on the skids. The weight should be on the rollers. There should be a good solid roller as close to the rear of the transom as you can get. Make sure your skids clear the ridges, or the boats likely to move sideways as you winch or transport..

ronnien
05-12-2009, 07:06 PM
looks alright to me, keep using that techyl mate, my belco is 2yr old now & have been using techyl & no rust at all. if anything it's not gold enough so lay it on thicker.

ron.

indy
05-12-2009, 07:15 PM
Feral

That is as low as it can go it is a full skid trailer no rollers only one at the start and one up near the winch post but that is it. The only other way of maybe getting it a little lower is by spreading the inner and outer skids away from the centre of the boat but i think it will only give me about twenty milmetres max. And in doing this it will come of the stronger support that it is sitting on at the moment. I don't no wether that would matter or not.

backlash08
05-12-2009, 08:05 PM
Hi pete, looks OK to me, agree to check the towball weight, maybe could go back a bit but looks fine, not a lot different to mine really
cheers - Craig

White Pointer
07-12-2009, 09:13 PM
G'day,

I note that the boat is a 6.0 which I assume is 6 metres. Therefore I assume that BMT is under 2-tonne. Am I right? Is the trailer electrically braked or over-ride? If over-ride is only the front axle of the pair braked? With the BMT hooked up to the car, is the boat keel level with the ground or laying forward or backwards?

These are all the things you have to consider (in no particular order) to get towing balance, braking and launch and retrieve right.

1. If the trailer is braked on both axles you have to keep even weight distribution over both or you risk lock up on one axle. The best way to achieve this (if the boat is exactly where you want it) is to move the axles.

2. But moving the axles shifts weight onto or off the tow hitch. You need downforce on the tow hitch to keep the trailer tracking straight. Aim at 75% of manufacturers maximum down force and you are pretty close to the mark.

3. You need to set the tow bar height correctly. Vehicle manufacturers usually make tow bars and inserts so that the tow ball is exactly the same height as the centre line of the axle. That's means trailer manufacturers have to make trailers by intuitively knowing this height. They don't. You need to get the BMT level on its axles for balanced towing and to aid launch and retrieve. That may mean replacing the tow bar insert. Make sure the rating is right. I had to ditch the standard Holden Rodeo 4x4 insert and fit a higher lift insert. I used a Nissan Patrol insert for a 45mm lift.

If in doubt, ask Queensland Transport if they can weigh your car + BMT and then the car alone. If they do it the way they weigh heavy vehicles it will give you individual axle weights plus down force load. They will even give you side-to-side weights. Queensland Transport are pretty good like this, but it comes down to the attitude of individual inspectors. Some want to help you get safe and stay safe and some just want to book someone and make life hard. They might charge you a fee for this and insist that you come in on a particular day when they don't have too many truck and bus inspections. But if the weight shows that you are illegal of inherently dangerous they might not let you drive away!

Regards,

White Pointer

indy
08-12-2009, 11:28 AM
White pointer

BMT would be under 2 tonne only has overrider brakes on the front axle i had to flip the tow ball so it all sits alot more level now as before the boat was leaning forward didn't look right at all i think i have it in round about the right spot now when i get a chance ill take a photo of the whole set up and get your opinion on it. Thanks for all that info you have brought up some intresting points.

bigjimg
08-12-2009, 06:11 PM
What prevents the hull sliding sideways on the skids when travelling over our well constructed roadways.Ratchet tiedown strap I presume of some sort.Is it a bit tender when under tow,wants or starts to get a small sway,does oncoming vehicles flick their high beam at you when travelling at night.These are some tell tale things that say things aren't right.Jim

skipalong
08-12-2009, 08:03 PM
mine trailer pete

looks alright to me still having some problems getting it right but once its there it is perfect, you will have to check your bolts regularly cause mine have come loose and the skids turn over when the boats comes off the trailer, have just got mine all sorted where they are perfect and have welded everything in place,

my skids are exposed from the rear of the boat about 200mm, have got them set up so they are inside the chime lines and therefore it comes up true everytime.

if ya want a closer look your welcome to come round and have a looksee

justin

indy
09-12-2009, 04:57 PM
Bigjimg

Just a tie down strap is all fair bit of weight when we are fully loaded heading up the highway couldn't really tell you what it is like under tow up the highway yet havn't had a chance to get out for a fish in a while. Will soon find out need to wet the gills.

Justin judging from your photo and where i now have the boat positioned (different to the photos) i think that yours and mine are very close in where the rear skids lay. One big difference that is between yours and mine my boat sits alot higher off the guards than yours which i believe is a stuff up from belco mne shouldn't really be sitting that high and i guess ill just have to wear it.

Thanks for the offer ill see how she goes up the highway and if i am not happy with the set up ill take you up on that offer to take a look at yours. Ill go out now and take a couple more photos of how it all sits now.

cheers pete...

bigjimg
09-12-2009, 06:02 PM
INDY If it was my rig i would look at how much clearance my keel has in relation too the cross members then taking that into account slide both sets of skids,that is left side and right side,to the outside of the strakes on both sides.That would drop the boat at least 55-60mm and have a centring effect when retrieving.The yanks call them bunks and my BIL's malibu self centres this way.Jim.ps If you plan on going up the beach you might want to cut off the excess stem that hangs down under the trailer.

krazyfisher
09-12-2009, 06:05 PM
I could be wrong but I would not have the skids under the weld on strakes. I would have them on the hull beside the strakes so that it self sets to center and the hull is taking the weight rather than the welded part on the strake pushing into the hull. and I would space them more outside skid as far out as you can.
hope that makes sence.

indy
09-12-2009, 06:27 PM
bigjimg

Yeah i see what your saying looks like i will be crawling back under the boat again making some more adjustments cant wait for that bloody green ants. Just had a look under the boat and i would have atlest 100mm before the keel hits the crossbars so that should be all good taking them out wider. So when doing this do i make the skids tight to the strakes or leave 5mm 10mm whats the distance i should allow? If it does go down 55 to 60mm she should sit back under the carport again but thats another story.

bigjimg
09-12-2009, 06:43 PM
Indy Somewhere around 5mm,you don't want too much 6-7mm would be max.That would give you 10mm if the boat was all the way to one side.And also that keel roller at the back change to a self centre type or even a Yalio roller.Hehe Green Ants I know what you mean.Jim

indy
09-12-2009, 06:58 PM
ok jim will give it ago tomorrow and take a few more pics and show you how it turns out

cheers pete...

skipalong
09-12-2009, 08:00 PM
pete i had to raise my trailer again from there another 20mm, because the hull hit the rear bar between the skids before taking up on the skids, so just be aware if it feels strange take alook, i notice it made a few dints along the keel line from a few hit that i didnt notice until the last where i couldnt get the trailer in far enough, but usually it goes right in until the rear car whell touch the water,

justin

White Pointer
09-12-2009, 09:46 PM
White pointer

BMT would be under 2 tonne only has overrider brakes on the front axle i had to flip the tow ball so it all sits alot more level now as before the boat was leaning forward didn't look right at all i think i have it in round about the right spot now when i get a chance ill take a photo of the whole set up and get your opinion on it. Thanks for all that info you have brought up some intresting points.

G'day,

I haven't been on line so apologies for the delayed response. Turning the tow ball insert upside down may not be a good idea. If it is a single bend of plate it may be OK but if it has one or two bracing plates welded on to reinforce the bend in the plate turning it upside down is now trying to pull the welds apart - not force them together.

The easy way to check level is a long spirit level. When all hooked up park the Car + BMT on "level" ground.

First, put the spirit level on the ground and measure how level the ground is. Measure the distance you lift one end to set the level. You will subtract this distance from all other measures you will make.

Second, put the spirit level on the main chassis rail of the trailer. Measure the distance you lift one end to set the level. Add or subtract the difference from the first measure and you know if you are laying forward or backwards.

Third, put the spirit level on the top of the trailer mudguard. Measure the distance you lift one end to set the level. If it's not the same as the second measure the mudguard is not welded squarely and you won't get fooled by optical illusions again!

Fourth, put the spirit level on a flat section of the boat floor close as you can to the centre line of the trailer axles. Measure the distance you lift one end to set the level. Add or subtract the difference from the first measure and you will know how the boat is sitting on the trailer.

After all this, you are either close or all over the place. And we still don't know trailer downforce. Weight distribution for a single axle brake isn't too critical for marginal differences but it still needs to be close for towing stability and tyre survival.

PM me if you need a hand. I too have a 6M platey on a dual axle trailer with over-ride brakes. I actually envy you with your BELCO. I live in Scarborough (QLD).

Regards,

White Pointer

Mr__Bean
09-12-2009, 10:03 PM
All this talk about balancing the load on the axles, and making sure the trailer is level..........

If you look in the first photo you will note that the trailer is fitted with rocker springs (self levelling).

Axle balance and accurate levelling is very relevant to slipper springs but has almost no relevance to rocker springs which are built to cope with the differences.

- Darren

White Pointer
09-12-2009, 10:24 PM
All this talk about balancing the load on the axles, and making sure the trailer is level..........

If you look in the first photo you will note that the trailer is fitted with rocker springs (self levelling).

Axle balance and accurate levelling is very relevant to slipper springs but has almost no relevance to rocker springs which are built to cope with the differences.

- Darren

G'day,

A rocker arm is not self levelling by itself. It does help reduce damage by spreading shock over both springs and axles. It reduces shock impact on the boat; but it does not level.

Let down one tyre and you will see that its not level. Drive on that flat tyre for a while and the other tyre on that side will fail because the suspension system does not self level and the one inflated tyre takes the load.

We have to get the BELCO level. It won't do it by itself.

Regards,

White Pointer

Mr__Bean
09-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Oooops, my use of the term "self levelling" may have been misleading.

What I meant is that rocker springs level out the load on both axles, what I should have said is that they share the load on both axles.

But that was my original point, as the rockers share the axle load for you there is no benefit in perfectly levelling the trailer.

By design the rockers are compensating for you, and sharing the load on the axles, that is why people use them.

They do this constantly as you travel over bumps etc, whereas with slippers the axles are subjected to the differing loads depending on the relationship of the trailer axis to the ground plain.

- Darren

indy
10-12-2009, 06:04 PM
G'day just had another fun filled afternoon adjusting skids for the third time, i am absolutly stuffed and have got to go out for a couple of hours so ill just put up a few more picks of round three, please tell me its looking good i dont no how much more i can take of this lol.

cheers pete

krazyfisher
10-12-2009, 06:13 PM
looks good to me.
the skids sit nice now should line its self up.
I think you will find it is worth the bit of extra work.

bigjimg
10-12-2009, 07:18 PM
Now your somewhere close Indy to add a V front roller at the stem and your just about there I would reckon.Determine the weight on your hitch and sit back and have a few cold ones.Looks good.Hope the Green Ants didn't feed too much.Jim

indy
10-12-2009, 07:50 PM
Thanks everyone for the usefull information i am pretty happy with the way its all sitting now looks pretty level and the boat dropped about thirty mm from taking all the skids wider (might fit back under the car port now) must remember to go slower this time haha.

Bigjimg first and only time i put it on the trailer it didn't even get close to that stern roller so i will have to see now that i have changed it a few times might be a bit closer now but still dont think it will hit it. Didn't get bitten once today thank christ the trailer was starting to get the better of me this arvo and that is the last thing i needed.

Thanks again guy's
cheers pete...

White Pointer
10-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Oooops, my use of the term "self levelling" may have been misleading.

What I meant is that rocker springs level out the load on both axles, what I should have said is that they share the load on both axles.

But that was my original point, as the rockers share the axle load for you there is no benefit in perfectly levelling the trailer.

By design the rockers are compensating for you, and sharing the load on the axles, that is why people use them.

They do this constantly as you travel over bumps etc, whereas with slippers the axles are subjected to the differing loads depending on the relationship of the trailer axis to the ground plain.

- Darren

G'day Darren,

Thanks for that. The rocker arm will load share up to a point but not level.

The critical level is from axle line of towing vehicle to first axle line of trailer then to second axle line of trailer. We move axles and towball height to achieve it being mindful of towball downforce and closely balanced axle loads for stability and good braking.

Then we move on to the boat and making skid/roller adjustments so it's level as well. Get it right and its a breeze to tow, falls of the trailer into the water and can be driven back on fairly easily as well.

Regards,

White Pointer