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View Full Version : What outboard would you buy.....



rat_catcher
24-11-2009, 10:28 AM
In a US based forum that I have started reading regularly, there is a poll running about people's choice as to which outboard brand they like the best. I was quite surprised to see Yamaha at 50% of the votes, far ahead of all of the other brands and was wondering if this is purely a US trend or whether it would apply in Australia too.

I have attached a pic of the voting on the US thread to give you an idea of what they are thinking and I am going to setup the poll the same here to see what sort of data we get in Australia.

The post in their thread is as follows;

"Ok, lets take a poll and see what outboard is most popular.

For those who need more specifics: 150-200hp, saltwater use, single engine install, 18-22' (5.5m to 6.7m) boat, 4,000lbs (that is 1,800kg) loaded max(People, gear, etc)

(No Real boat involved- hypothetical only!!!)

Only listing the manufacturer, not specific motors.

Honda, Suzuki, Mercury, Evinrude (E-tec), Yamaha"

rat_catcher
24-11-2009, 10:37 AM
My gut feeling is that Suzuki is probably the most popular in Australia, but hey have a bad wrap over here due to lack of service and parts availability. But I was very surprised by how much of a margin Yamaha has scored. I also thought Mercury would have scored better here in the US too.

Robbo76
24-11-2009, 11:14 AM
I don't know? I know a few blokes with different outboards where i live, they have around the same size boat 5.2 mtr. One has the suzi 4, one has a new etec, one has a yammie. They all swear their motors are best. lol.

Myself, I have a Merc opti. I am happy with it, it does what it needs to do. I though the merc would be pretty popular? What's on the back of nearly every ski boat you see with an outboard? a Merc.

I

Robbo76
24-11-2009, 11:17 AM
Sorry, above post posted itself before i finished::) . I think you will find people will vote for what's on the butt of their boat. As for which i would choose, stuffed if i know. Pick out of a hat i think.;D

Cheers,
Rob

FNQCairns
24-11-2009, 11:18 AM
I am glad you added the specifics as the brand changes with the HP, i think it's hard to go past the 150 Suzuki less so the 175 because of the variable valve timing that may adds complexity and costs down the line.

The Yamaha 150 is pretty good too.

Is there a 200hp around these days that is not also one of the lower HP blocks? I would consider that too irrespective of brand in the early instance.

They are all good doesn't really cut it and never did if one remembers history except to make those who make a poor choice feel a bit better, instead of dumbing it all down, a better choice can often be made.

cheers fnq

Noelm
24-11-2009, 11:48 AM
you really need another button for, "any of them" or maybe even which outboard would you NOT buy.

cormorant
24-11-2009, 02:37 PM
Gotta understand that in the USA there is special offers on warranty, extended warranty , insurance and so on that in Australia we never see and they also have totally different pricing and different discounts.

Probably get a different result if it was fresh water?

It also assumes that the boat is able to take the weight of some of the motors fully rigged as in real life with a lot of older hulls you have to buy what is light enough to retrofit so might not have a choice of all motors.

As for vtec or any other version being an issue later on in the motors life I look at it in the way that by teh time you have to do any serious work on teh heads and valve train you are replacing the lot - big % of motors value and probably not worthwhile.

Razgo-
24-11-2009, 02:46 PM
I voted for an outboard i don't have "Honda". I have a merc, Suzuki, Ford 6 cyl inboard & Johnson. who says the power of advertising isn't suggestive? cant wait for a Sony outboard to come out ;D & Microsoft outboard so i can just press "reboot" when something goes wrong ;D

BaitThrower
24-11-2009, 03:51 PM
yammy at 50% is probably not surprising... Everytime I go out in the bay I'd say even more than 50% of the boats that go past have a yammy on the back here in Australia too...

Dicko
24-11-2009, 04:41 PM
Here's another 10 cents worth,

Yamaha have a good reputation (both here and the US) because they've been established in the marine game with good motors for a long time. A big dealer network also assures a lot are fitted up as new boat/motor packages. Usually fair priced.

Honda, being recently new to marine has taken longer to set up a big dealer network. Good gear, but they tend to be on the porky side in the large motors. Particularly in the US where they like their motors lean and mean. (so they can put 3 or 4 of them on lol ). Their pricing is also above most of the others. If they ever decide to knock out a lighter more performance orientated large sized motor like their small range and like Yamaha are now doing it should be good. They know engines.

Suzuki. Good gear. They've been out of the market for a long time and come back quite strong with Haines as distributors. This also see's them fitted up to their own products to get market share. They also tend to be dearer. The negative side of having the distributorship held privately not company owned is that if Haines ever goes belly up I wonder if Suzuki will continue in Aus or do a runner from our 'small' market like last time ?

Mercury tend to shoot themselves in the foot by releasing new stuff too early. Unlike the japs who have a bigger company back up to R & D for a longer period, Merc tends to use the first few years customers to discover hidden problems. Once sorted and they've been through a few updates they're good stuff & fair priced, not the verados though, they're still dear as poison.

Evinrude, with all the fiascos from the past you either love 'em or hate 'em. Not much in the middle.

To throw in Tohatsu. They're probably the most anal of all the jap companies. They only do outboards & knock out great products. If anything they spend way too much time in R & D before they bring stuff to market, they then get the reputation of being a bit behind the times. They're marketing team is from the 1900's which doesn't help. I'd like to see them bring out a range in the higher HP classes and I wouldn't have had to buy a Merc.

So in that HP range, using a complex mental mathematical formula consisting of the following inputs: value for money, low weight. good fuel economy, good performance and a 5 year warranty

I'd pick a 175 opti (at 195 kg it's also the lightest), if you wanted a 2 stroke, or if you wanted a 4 stroke it'd be a 175 Suzuki (only because yammy don't have a 175 & there new range of 200 & up isn't proven yet).

firstlight
24-11-2009, 06:44 PM
Has to be a Suzuki, deeper reduction then any motor on the market, swings a bigger prop which should equal superior fuel economy and holds in a following sea far better then any motor I've ever experienced, 4-stk, quiet and reliability, has to be a Zuk

cheers
firstlight

Wahoo
24-11-2009, 06:53 PM
Did;nt vote, but the best motor is the one going on the new boat soon

Daz

Robbo76
24-11-2009, 06:57 PM
arhh c'mon Daz, what's going on it?

Verado?????

firstlight
24-11-2009, 06:59 PM
So, come on - tell.... Lol

cheers
firstlight

Wahoo
24-11-2009, 07:07 PM
arhh c'mon Daz, what's going on it?

Verado?????

========= hehehe

Daz

Robbo76
24-11-2009, 07:13 PM
I reckons i'm right. Mmmm, That was on your last beast.....;D

BM
24-11-2009, 07:21 PM
Honda isn't new to marine. Honda have had marine engines (4 strokes at that) for 30 odd years.

Suzuki in their previous incarnation had a terrible reputation for the supply of spare parts. I hear this is the same in the motorcylcle industry, although I have no direct involvement in that industry.

I have heard of some ongoing issues with the "new" Suzuki setup in terms of supply of parts.

Spare parts in my view is critical. Its the difference between 1 day off the water on your "2 week Chrissy holidays" and off the water "for the entire holidays". Major selling point I reckon!!

BRP, Merc, Yamaha, yeah, all good products and all well supported. Nothing more to say there!

cheers

legsy11
24-11-2009, 08:10 PM
well looks as though it may be 50% in oz as well.to tell the truth i thought it would have been a lot higher.
cant beat true quality,yet suzuki is making a charge.
mercury need to rethink there sales strategy.
honda,s rep as heavy motors will take some shaking for a few years[good technology though]
brp should stop wasting money on shit 2 bangers and jump on the four stroke train before they get crushed.great technology and sales marketing and so on but in the wrong stroke.would probably lead the field if they went with four.
i feel sorry for the guy who when sitting round a boardroom said [lets spend the kitty on some shitty etecs].
anyway 100 million yanks and 10 million aussies couldnt be wrong could they??????????

Dicko
24-11-2009, 08:16 PM
Honda isn't new to marine. Honda have had marine engines (4 strokes at that) for 30 odd years.

cheers

You're right there BM, but it wasn't until the mid 90's that they became a 'major' player marine wise. And, yes all 4 strokes. They've never had a 2 stroke outboard which considering their experience in the 2 stroke field, they could have made some awesome stuff.

Out of interest, they also led the charge to change the 2 stroke 500 Grand prix class over to 4 stroke Moto GP.

BM
24-11-2009, 10:40 PM
Probably not until 4 stroke outboards became "trendy" I would think Dicko, that Honda gained a foothold.

Promote this environmetal stuff about a 4 stroke outboard being better than a DI 2 stroke outboard and you are bound to get some favour. Problem is of course many 4 stroke engines still have carby's............. Bit of an issue that in the face of a direct injection 2 stroke engine....

Hmm.... inefficient carby 4 stroke v DI 2 stroke... But there would still be pundits out there alleging the carby 4 stroke would be more economical (or more environmental) than a DI 2 stroke.

You cannot legislate intelligence...

Noelm
25-11-2009, 09:44 AM
I guess lots of manufacturers "dabled" a long time ago, Honda being one, Volvo, Chrysler and even Yamaha did not have their own branded engine, it was marketed under the Mariner name, they all had 4 stroke technology from their Auto background, then there was a dozen other small time makers that failed miserably through bad product, bad advertising and bad everything, names like Scott, Seagull and even Victa, some stuck at it and became a known good brand, others swapped and changed to keep up, other just made a good product and only needed time and refinement to make it right, anyone know what car engine the Suzuki is based on?

Noelm
25-11-2009, 09:50 AM
I forgot to add, I really don't think it is the fact that Yamaha is perceived to be better quality, I seriously doubt that is the case, it is just marketing, you could run a poll (it has been done) and ask what your best brand fishing gear is, Shimano wins every time, but it is no better than (say) Daiwa, but the brand is recognised and purchased, on a very different tangent, think hardware the first name that comes to mind is Bunnings, they are not better than (say) mitre 10, but you go there, same with your outboard, for some reason Yamaha has the "name" and no amount of "mines better than yours" will change that, it will take lots of dollars!

Toddy_again
25-11-2009, 12:05 PM
You could run the poll on a Victorian based website and get a totally different result.


Toddy

Noelm
25-11-2009, 12:19 PM
maybe the case in Vic, but I sort of doubt it, by the same token, if this same poll had been taken back about 20 years ago, OMC would be the winner by about 90% Mercury and Chrysler and everyone else would be miniscule, how the worm has turned huh!

legsy11
25-11-2009, 07:47 PM
disagree,people dont vote on marketing as eveinrude are crap.the certainly have put more crap into people heads then anyone ever will.
my opinion and i assume the majority of people and remember the question was which motor would you prefer,is that yamaha are superior in reliabilty,gearing,sales service,after market service and prob value for money too.
and once their new motors hit the market in the next few years i wouldnt be surprised if they go 75% of market share.
by the way im not saying that honda or suzuki or mercury are crap either,just not what yamaha are.
by the way noel,i would think bunnings and shimano are superior as well due to sales,srevice,warranty and range.whats the point in going to mitre 10 when most of the time they dont have what you need.why pay shimano prices for daiwa.?

firstlight
25-11-2009, 09:07 PM
I'm not sure but I think a couple of posts have been deleted, which I guess reinforces this is a bit of an emotional question. I think most people buy a boat with an outboard on the back as aposed to the other way around and whether it costs 10 or 20 bucks more or less in fuel consumption/ oil/ servicing/ parts or whatever, it doesn't really matter because they've had a great day out on the water with family or friends. As a keen hobby i still only get outside around 18 times a year and yep, I'm mad and keen, just the reality, which outboard would you buy - I'm sticking with Suzuki - unless of cause daz comes up with some revelation thats worth following ( and we're still waiting.... Lol) but even still I would have to wait 5 or 10 years until I could upgrade anyway, which of cause is the drama, the cost of depreciation, upgrade and installation far outweigh 10 or 20 bucks here or there, Bla bla bla for another 3 paragraphs... lol.. anyway thats me 2 bobs worth, ... nearly 1000 views and only 110 votes, what's going on :) :)

cheers
firstlight

bushbeachboy
25-11-2009, 09:19 PM
It would be good if Tohatsu and Parsun were in the poll also.

Blusta
25-11-2009, 11:00 PM
Perhaps this has been done to death...

geoffmck
26-11-2009, 05:34 AM
You could run the poll on a Victorian based website and get a totally different result.


Toddy

My name is Geoff and I am a Victorian.
I voted for Yamaha because the last 2 I have had have been trouble free.
Just ordered my new 40hp yesterday for my new boat.

There are probably quite a few Victorians who are members on this site. Hope there are no border issues.

Wahoo
26-11-2009, 06:33 AM
[QUOTE=Dicko;1100953]



been through a few updates they're good stuff & fair priced, not the verados though, they're still dear as poison.

QUOTE]


Not up this way Dicko, I was just about to sign up on a deal with a zook untill they came out with a price, i grabed my wife my little girl and the check book off the desk and RAN out of the dealers,IF i went with a Verado i would of saved a extra 5k in the same HP range, i really dont koow how they get away with it

Daz

bicko1
26-11-2009, 01:51 PM
suzys are getting popular and have proven themself as a good motor but I think they only have the edge on yamaha at the moment because they are a bit cheaper. Next time any one is at the boatramp have a look at how many yammys head out I would say its around 80% and no one ever has a bad thing to say about them. Thats proof enough for me

Catweb
26-11-2009, 06:58 PM
Based on rep only, Yammie every time. But having run both 4 and 2 stroke, Etec for me on performance basis. If/when my Etec ever lets me down, I will have a great deal of head scratching to do trying to decide what next.

I still have far, far toooooo many bad memories about the old Zooks to even consider forgiving them yet.......give it another 10 years maybe, for the nightmare that is a pair of 115 zooks to fade.

Axl
26-11-2009, 08:34 PM
I think when you are bying new its like anything (Bike, Car, Outboard, Mower ect) you will get the lemons.

I have had 2 Yamaha's and I could'nt fault them.

My new one when it turns up (soon I hope 6 weeks and counting) will be a Mercury hopefully I will be able to say the same about it.

black runner
26-11-2009, 08:48 PM
I forgot to add, I really don't think it is the fact that Yamaha is perceived to be better quality, I seriously doubt that is the case, it is just marketing, you could run a poll (it has been done) and ask what your best brand fishing gear is, Shimano wins every time, but it is no better than (say) Daiwa, but the brand is recognised and purchased, on a very different tangent, think hardware the first name that comes to mind is Bunnings, they are not better than (say) mitre 10, but you go there, same with your outboard, for some reason Yamaha has the "name" and no amount of "mines better than yours" will change that, it will take lots of dollars!

There is far more at stake in selecting a powerplant for the boat than choosing what fishing reel you buy or hardware store to go to. I believe a majority of potential owners will be a little more sophisticated in their evaluation than just believing marketing material and will get references and opinions from other owners/operators and check dealer/product backup etc. of the makes/models available in the HP range.

As far as Yamaha goes, well they reap what they sew - good product, R&D, sales service and support, and a long market presence. They look after their customers and in return customers stay loyal and bring others. Pretty simple really as is their advertising no hype or dopey performance comparisons with the opposition.

Cheers

rat_catcher
27-11-2009, 09:36 AM
It would be good if Tohatsu and Parsun were in the poll also.
I didn't put them in because the goal of this was to compare to the data being gathered in the US to see what trends there are.

I was quite surprised how bad of a name Suzuki has over here, which is very different from what I know in Australia. BTW the boat I have for sale has a Suzuki DF250 on the back and I could not say one bad word about it.

To be honest I think between the major players, it comes down to service first, and then if you have the luxury of multiple good service options locally, it comes down to cost and then weight.

Of course the cost and weight winner varies by HP class. I agree with the Suzuki 175hp in the 150-200 range.

suzygs1000
27-11-2009, 10:52 AM
Probably not until 4 stroke outboards became "trendy" I would think Dicko, that Honda gained a foothold.

Promote this environmetal stuff about a 4 stroke outboard being better than a DI 2 stroke outboard and you are bound to get some favour. Problem is of course many 4 stroke engines still have carby's............. Bit of an issue that in the face of a direct injection 2 stroke engine....

Hmm.... inefficient carby 4 stroke v DI 2 stroke... But there would still be pundits out there alleging the carby 4 stroke would be more economical (or more environmental) than a DI 2 stroke.

You cannot legislate intelligence...

Hey, BM,

I wasn't aware that any of the four stroke outboards were running carburettors.

Which models are they?

Dave.

wrxhoon
28-11-2009, 09:50 AM
Most makes have carby 4 stroke Dave, including Suzuki, Honda had mid Hp carby as well.

Pretzil
28-11-2009, 10:33 AM
REMOVED.

Did not read original post.

Dave_H
28-11-2009, 12:34 PM
Why is tohatsu not an option on the poll? even if they are dinosaurs of technology, given a choice I couldnt go past their value and reliability, just wish they had higher Hp available... unless someone else was paying then I would go the etec :)...

...then maybe sell it and get three tohatsus :D

I think that may be because of the Hp options specified in the first post of the thread - 150 to 200Hp. Old Tohie hasn't quite made it up there yet (they are getting close with their 140Hp TLDI), however from a chance meeting and talking to a guy here in the Bay who services TLDI engines, he rates the TLDI Tohatsu's rather highly (and an equal to the other injected 2 strokes) so far in so far as reliabilty, parts availabity, ecconomy etc.

Unfortunately there will always be a vocal minority who, despite all evidence to the contrary will not accept that there are viable, cost effective alternatives (albeit non-mainstream in this country anyway) to Merc/Evinrude/Yammie/Zukes available and get all fuzzy inside when they "demand" to see proof of reliabilty or failures of others etc....

Further back in the thread others were comparing racing engines (both 2 and 4 strokes) to outboards. You can't. They are poles apart in so far as tolerances (meaning that race spec engines are often set-up very "loose" so as to have low internal friction), hence the need to bebuild/re-sleeve/re-bore as often as they do. They often run incredibly high compression ratios as well which are so close to uncontained explosive detonation (for the engine itself, not just the fact that detonation is, by it's very nature an explosion) even with very high octane fule/higher fuel flows.

It is true however, that 2 strokes - by their very design have twice the number of power strokes as 4 strokes (for a given engine RPM), hence the higher torque values able to be extracted out of (most) 2 stroke out boards for a given Hp rating. This of course MAY translate into greater wear in the cylinder wall if lubricant quantity/quality suffers.

I personally would, if I were to step into the 150-200Hp arena would most probably go with a DI 2 stroke, which is a personal preference. I have no axe to grind with 4 strokes, it is only really a matter of personal choice.

Great thread!

Regards,

Dave

rat_catcher
28-11-2009, 10:30 PM
Why is tohatsu not an option on the poll?
Read post #35.

"I didn't put them in because the goal of this was to compare to the data being gathered in the US to see what trends there are."

Pretzil
29-11-2009, 02:21 AM
Read post #35.

"I didn't put them in because the goal of this was to compare to the data being gathered in the US to see what trends there are."

Sorry, poor form on my part, I just skimmed through the posts but didnt really read every one.

... I voted etec

hivalley
30-11-2009, 08:32 PM
First choice DFI 2 stroke.
Second choice EFI 2 stroke.
Third choice carb 2 stroke oil injected.
Forth choice carb 2 stroke premix.

Is there any others:huh2:

whatscracken
01-12-2009, 08:04 PM
No surprise to see Yamaha a clear leader. I am surprised that Honda has the least amount of votes though.

rat_catcher
02-12-2009, 08:14 AM
I am surprised that Honda has the least amount of votes though.
Honda may be starting to feel the pain of a lack of engines in the higher horsepower classes.

I am not surprised by Suzuki's share in Aus, even though it is far above the market penetration here in the US. I am a little surprised by how many votes Evinrude has recorded though.

Lovey80
03-12-2009, 10:01 PM
I voted Suzuki, just because thats what I bought last time....... I think I would own any of the 4strokes out there depending on weight/HP/CC/Price etc. If there was nothing in it I would go Yamaha everytime...... Too many runs on the board now to look past them.

Cheers

Chris

Skusto
04-12-2009, 05:42 PM
Had a few yamaha's be it 2 and 4 great engines, had one break under warrenty was fixed but took 7 weeks out of our main fishing time, wasnt as fast as we would of wanted but was fixed so all good.
Yamaha are good but why dont they compete with the suzuki and evinrude on there warrenty back up.?? a 2 year warrenty is crap, i know they have the 2+2 but you have to go through a yamaha dealer. about the only reason why we didnt go with yamaha again. But there new 4 strokes are looking tempting for the next donk.

ozscott
05-12-2009, 07:49 AM
I have a Yamm 115 93 V4 2 stroke - love it. It is the most reliable motor by far that I have ever had and I think that the electronics and electrics on the Jap motors have always been the best. My motor of choice if I repowered would be a Yammy 150 4 stroke - for the weight they put out 160+ in real terms and they are a Yammy....

Cheers

Razgo-
13-12-2009, 02:44 PM
Johnson needs to be added to the poll. i saw 3 johnsons, 2 suzi, and one yamaha this morning at ramp.

Johnsons out numbered everyone today.

gtphantom
16-12-2009, 02:28 AM
Do Johnsons even exist anymore to buy as anew product???