Can a boat dealer disclose info

[melony]

Hi Guys

I have a question in regards to a boat dealer/outboard service center disclosing info or more specificly the service history of an outboard, that i have for sale, can they by law hand out this info and private details to any joe of the street

any info would be great

Thanks Melony

[Stuart]

No is the short answer. They cant disclose that info to anyone with out your concent.

Stu.

[FNQCairns]

.....but of coarse they could without fear..... for instance if they did it and got caught by the owner what would be the real world penalty? None, Zip, Zilch.

A near perfect example of Industry self regulation.

cheers fnq

[melony]

I should have added to my first post that i dont have anything to hide i just see this as no respect for his customers or his own business for that matter

Thanks Melony

[lethal098]

its the same in the motor industry i can tell them when it had a service and the mileage but thats it, i cannot disclose exact problems or repairs that were done. It is a breach of privacy law. chers Lee

[gr hilly]

dealers i hate that word there is a feeling that goes with that word.
tight lines hilly

[geoffmck]

I should have added to my first post that i dont have anything to hide i just see this as no respect for his customers or his own business for that matter

Thanks Melony

If you have nothing to hide, I would be ringing the dealer and asking them to disclose everything. Surely it would help the sale if the history was verified by an independant person?

[Lovey80]

I should have added to my first post that i dont have anything to hide i just see this as no respect for his customers or his own business for that matter

Thanks Melony

Are you kidding? Do I have this right that you have your engine at a boat yard for sale and the manager of the yard is giving potential customers a digital readout from the ECU on the Laptop of Servicing history/previous alarms etc???

Cheers

Chris

[Jarrah Jack]

From my reading, in this instance, the dealer is doing you a favour supplying info to anyone that asks.

If you sell it privately, say ebay, you'll get heaps of questions from around the country.

[Argle]

This is a dangerous sort of issue, there have been cases (not in boats that Im aware of) where a person has turned down a purchase of Machinery on the basis of service information supplied by a Dealer.

The owner then sued the Dealer due to them disclosing the information without permission which incurred a lost sale, end result seller gets value of sale from dealer and still keeps machine???

We have this issue at work and while its one thing to give a verbal history its another altogether to provide written documentation because words are just hearsay and cant be proven but documents can.

At the end of the day if you are selling something I would imagine it would be in your best intrests to provide any and all service history to support your claims of maintaining the goods for sale, however if you are shopping and the dealer will not disclose info dont automatically shoot the messenger because he is probably just covering his own backside in what has become a legal minefield thanks to the increased letigious nature of our society

Cheers
Scott

[Scott nthQld]

Service history of the outboard I have no problems with, as it is often one of the first questions asked, I myself ask 2 questions before anything else 1. How many hours?, and 2. Service history, previous problems?, if I don't get an answer to either of these questions I, like many others would, keep walking

[Noelm]

I guess if you look at it from the buyer's side, would you buy an outboard if the dealer/seller would not supply readout? because it against the privacy laws.

[Noelm]

it is like buying a car, but the milage is covered up and you are not alowed to look at it

[Argle]

it is like buying a car, but the milage is covered up and you are not alowed to look at it

No its not Noel, what is not disclosed is the service history as far as what work was performed e.g engine rebuild gearbox overhauls warranty work done.
For instance seller says engine has been rebuilt but does not give copy of receipts, in actual fact engine may have been pulled apart and put back together with all old parts replaced except for gaskets and seals - technically a rebuild but to many people a "rebuild" means a complete overhaul with new parts.

Cheers
Scott

[cormorant]

I would say no to a cold call for releasing any information.

When selling an outboard I would get a copy of all service records and put em in a file with a summary on the front - warts and all. Unless it is a reoccuring issue or something they can't diagnose it will have been fixed. All motors have some isssues but t is that they are fixed is the main point and no long term damage happened as it was regularly checked.

I would confirm with the dealer that he would be happy to talk to and confirm the service history to the end buyer before he pays and that saves the dealer being bugged by prospects.

This comes down to the receipts and the info on them that some dealers put. They seriously lack detail ( on hours , compressions etc) especially under warranty and I try and get the actual service record of what was done for the claim back to manufacturer. At least you then know if it was a adjustment, predelivery stuff up or actually new parts that went in to solve the issue

[Marlin_Mike]

i wouldnt buy if it wasnt disclosed. if theres nothing to hide give the info, cant see why you'd not disclose any service history, would have to be detrimental to the sale IMHO.

Mike

[Noelm]

Mind you, I guess in a sort of way, regardless of what the seller is telling you, if it is not substantiated by receipts or ECM/EMM readout, then it should be assumed it is false or never done, how many times have you seen an add with "just serviced" "reconditioned" "one owner" "low hours" and that sort of thing, without proof, it is just a sales gimmick to seal a sale! I mean just look at what it could imply, the old "low K's, one owner" could mean just that, but the driver/owner was Jamie Whincup at Bathurst for 1,000K's!

[Bros]

I'd be very surprised if privacy had anything to do with it but it is a screen people hide behind when they have no other excuse.
Privacy act deals with personal details not the service history of an outboard motor. If they asked the dealer how they paid for the service this could be privacy information.
We seem to be forever finding excuses of how not to do things instead of just getting the job done.

[lethal098]

if you service your car/outboard whatever it is your personal asset, until the goods are purchased by someone and the ownership changes hand, ie registration there are private details linked to that service and repair, therefore we cannot give you a piece of paper and we cannot disclose exactly what you paid us to do, that is a legally binding contract between us and the owner. How would you feel if the engine had been rebuilt under warranty and fully repaired and the engine is put up for sale and we disclose that this engine has been rebuilt, most people will walk away. Not all information is given, try and get that sort of info under the freedom of information act. Impossible. I get asked this question every other day and legally i cannot give out paper work or exace details as i explained earlier. But if i was selling something myself and had nothing to hide i would show all receipts of service work completed. cheers Lee

[Lovey80]

if you service your car/outboard whatever it is your personal asset, until the goods are purchased by someone and the ownership changes hand, ie registration there are private details linked to that service and repair, therefore we cannot give you a piece of paper and we cannot disclose exactly what you paid us to do, that is a legally binding contract between us and the owner.

How exactly has someone privacy been breached by telling the buyer details of a engines history. You can leave the personal details out.

How would you feel if the engine had been rebuilt under warranty and fully repaired and the engine is put up for sale and we disclose that this engine has been rebuilt, most people will walk away.

Of course they MAY, there is a very good reason for that! You are dodgy mate! the buyer maybe looking for a secon hand engine with ORIGINAL hours. They have the right to know if an engine has been rebuilt. Many many engines are never the same after a rebuild. If I bought a donk that had previously been rebuilt and was not notified when I asked and it died shortly after and I found out that it had, I would coming after who ever sold it to me real hard!

Not all information is given, try and get that sort of info under the freedom of information act. Impossible. I get asked this question every other day and legally i cannot give out paper work or exace details as i explained earlier. But if i was selling something myself and had nothing to hide i would show all receipts of service work completed. cheers Lee

New engines have the capability to supply this info. There are that many dodgy operators around that if they refuse to supply that info they SHOULD be considered suspect from the start and assume they have something to hide.

[Bros]

Not all information is given, try and get that sort of info under the freedom of information act.

FOI only applies to government instrumentalities so it can never apply to private deals.

[cormorant]

Bit of a warning here as well

In buying some goods recently I came across some faked invioces for work done. In the past I have seen it done with cars as well where the servce record of one car mysteriously appears to be anothers.

There was work done but no where near the value that was shown on the invioces. The seller had scanned and reprinted the invioce with extra details and only reason I clicked as he had priced them wrong and I called the dealer to check if the invoice had been paid and they confirmed the original amount.

There are frauds everywhere like this bloke and as in this case the dealer cleared it up without crossing the line as he could see where I was coming from with my enquiry. Stupid thing is that in this case it was not the critical part of my purchasing decision so he lost himself a sale. Dealer is now clued up about the seller who is a regular buyer of parts.

[Bros]

In buying some goods recently I came across some faked invioces for work done. In the past I have seen it done with cars as well where the servce record of one car mysteriously appears to be anothers.


Not good but with the technology available now you seem to be able to forge almost anything.
About 10 yrs ago I bought my daughter a car and got the REVS certificate and I thought I would check that the person selling the car was the registered owner. I went to the Transport Dept with the Rego No and I gave them the name just to check. Well I spelt it wrong and they said the person wasn't the registered owner but when I corrected the spelling they confirmed that she was the owner.

That was done over the counter but I have no idea weather that was correct or not or I had a good person behind the counter.

[Lovey80]

Lee, now that I hav thought about it more (your comments resemble what is wrong with the industry).

If I had an engine rebuilt under warranty and the guy selling it lied to a buyer about it to make a sale, I would not buy anything off him again. How could you trust he was telling the truth next time YOUR the buyer?

Dodgy!

Cheers

chris

[White Pointer]

G'day,

This is silly. Since time eternal it has been possible to do searches on property and mortgages on property to find out who owned it, modified it, owed money on it, etc. This open system prevents proterty fraud.

The REVS system for cars and new transfer arrangements do much the same and aim to achieve the same purpose - prevent fraud and misrepresentation.

If you have a log-book and invoices for servicing be open and transparent with all of it and tell the dealer to also be open and transparent with it and tell the dealer that if any questions arise to either (a) contact you to answer them or (b) put the buyer in touch with you - your choice. It's got to make the buyer feel better, the dealer in a better position to make the sale and help you get the best price.

There is no privacy issue in this, really, unless you have something to hide.

White Pointer

[lethal098]

Chris, i agree completely but at the end of the day the law is there to protect everyone, trust is a big issue, if someone is not open about and not willing to give you copies and disclose info then walk away. There are many people out there i would not buy a lawn mower off. I dont agree with what the law sates but that is the law.

cheers Lee

[Makka Nick]

I agree with both arguments here. As a salesman in a heavily regulated (healthcare) industry I strongly believe that honesty is always the best policy, especially if your telling somebody something they don't want to hear. Sure they might turn and walk the other way but at least your integrity is still intact.

From a privacy point of view, sure you can have a building inspected etc and access all sorts of details but at a stage where you have already made a commitment on paper to purchase the property and paid for the privilege. Sure, be honest and open with the potential buyer but I wouldn't offer anything in writing until I had some commitment, ie. a deposit.

[Argle]

I agree with Lee in that if something is for sale then the info should be provided by the seller on request otherwise walk away, the problem as I said earlier is that if prospective buyer gets information from sellers agent or dealer without the express written permission of the owner of the information and as a result of receiving that information decides to not go ahead with the sale the owner can sue the agent for the cost of the lost sale. Yes it sucks but thats what can happen.

Cheers
Scott

[Lovey80]

Sorry for the late response Argile but I still fail to see how a owner can sue a agent for loss of the sale for giving away the engine history of an outboard engine. I'm talking servicing history and fault alarms etc here not the owners bank account details and credit rating!

The owners privacy hasn't been breached one bit! The engine certainly has no privacy rights what so ever. If an engine has had over heating alarms constantly or a full rebuild, it is the buyers right to know these things and Lee is right that if an Engine is capable of giving this readout and one was refused then your an idiot for going ahead with the sale.

Also if an engine had been rebuilt (but was of the type that would not have the tech) and the seller had owned from new and lied about the rebuild then if the worst was to happen shortly after purchase there would have to be recourse for getting your cash back from the original owner for using intentionally decieving methods to get a sale IMHO...... of course if one wanted to persue it which in most cases is unlikely.

Cheers

Chris

[Feral]

Once someone buys the motor they could get it plugged in and get the entire history anyway. Same information, just after sale (or is it after rip off?).

So its not about privacy, its about hiding the details to effect a sale - fraud in my book

[melony]

this post deleted as it had more spelling mistakes then i could count

below is the same post with out all the spelling mistakes and a lot easyer to read and understand

thanks Tony (Melony)

[melony]

thanks guys for all your reply's,
there is and never was anything to hide in regards to any of this the reason i made the post is we are talking about a boat, motor, trailer package that is less then 12 months old. as proven by all service history and supply'sed papers all was/is in A1 condition.
i have since found out from the dealer why he was giving details out quite simply i had spoken to him about buying another B,M,T package from him and doing a trade with him on the same boat i ellected to sell privatly, after a few call's and visits he tell's me that he infact has taken a deposit on my boat before i had even sold it to them.
so as to try and void any private sale i had for the unit he took it under his own wing to advice any potenial buyer that it had this wroung that wroung who i am, where i live, how much i payed, what discount i got originaly, how much to offer etc etc etc,
it know turns out that the deposit taken by the dealer was refunded and the guy that has bought the package is the exact same that was buying the unit from the dealer at a higher price then what i sold it for.
the final outcome of it all is i sold my B,M,T package, as i run a business in town i took the whole lot to another marine service center for an inspection on the unit and to have a report written on it for the buyer which showed no issues at all, the buyer was 110% happy and over the moon i offered to do this along with showing him there is no issues at all and no dodgeyness as the original sales center tryed to say, i have not and never will buy another thing from the original sales center nor will i advice anybody else to, i would also gather the buyer of my package would also be doing the same thing, the dealer lost a sale on another new B,M,T package along with the services on two units as well.
yesterday arvo whilst out playing with my new pride and joy i seen my old boat i went over to see i how is was all going to be simply told "what an awesome family day we are having a HUGE thanks for everything" had they caught anything yes.
so i guess the moral of this whole thing is dont bad mouth anybody or anything as you never know how or when it will effect you

[Feral]

I had a mate with an Etec fitted to a poly boat. He was quite surprised when the mechanic at the first service mentioned that the records from the chip showed it was mostly either operated at idle or flat out. (not surprised at how it was operated, but that they could tell!) Shows the sort of info that is recorded on those chips!

I haven't bought a second hand car new enough to have all the whiz bang chips in it. So I wonder if when you get these inspected by a mechanic or RACQ or similar, do they plug in and give you details of the maintenance and running history? Whether the car has been flogged?

[geoffmck]

thanks guys for all your reply's,
there is and never was anything to hide in regards to any of this the reason i made the post is we are talking about a boat, motor, trailer package that is less then 12 months old. as proven by all service history and supply'sed papers all was/is in A1 condition.
i have since found out from the dealer why he was giving details out quite simply i had spoken to him about buying another B,M,T package from him and doing a trade with him on the same boat i ellected to sell privatly, after a few call's and visits he tell's me that he infact has taken a deposit on my boat before i had even sold it to them.
so as to try and void any private sale i had for the unit he took it under his own wing to advice any potenial buyer that it had this wroung that wroung who i am, where i live, how much i payed, what discount i got originaly, how much to offer etc etc etc,
it know turns out that the deposit taken by the dealer was refunded and the guy that has bought the package is the exact same that was buying the unit from the dealer at a higher price then what i sold it for.
the final outcome of it all is i sold my B,M,T package, as i run a business in town i took the whole lot to another marine service center for an inspection on the unit and to have a report written on it for the buyer which showed no issues at all, the buyer was 110% happy and over the moon i offered to do this along with showing him there is no issues at all and no dodgeyness as the original sales center tryed to say, i have not and never will buy another thing from the original sales center nor will i advice anybody else to, i would also gather the buyer of my package would also be doing the same thing, the dealer lost a sale on another new B,M,T package along with the services on two units as well.
yesterday arvo whilst out playing with my new pride and joy i seen my old boat i went over to see i how is was all going to be simply told "what an awesome family day we are having a HUGE thanks for everything" had they caught anything yes.
so i guess the moral of this whole thing is dont bad mouth anybody or anything as you never know how or when it will effect you


Thanks for the explanation mate. That dealer sound likes one to avoid. Glad it has all worked out ok for you and not him

[b8nburlee]

i work for a major diesel engine manufacturer/servicing company, and there have been times when ive allowed certain info to be passed on to a potential truck purchaser after all i am a consumer also. no info regarding invoices,accounts, discounts, prior owners, prices or details as such are passed on, rather just servicing, maintenance, component replacememt, and major repairs etc.(australia wide) alot of the time the actual owner will asking for this info to be passed on, (honesty and transparency) i always state that this is just verbal/heresay information never documented. it hasnt bitten me on the arse yet. this info. should be accessed by a possible buyer, it could end up being a potential future customer and so is in everyone's best interests.
as for service history being stored in the ecm, this doesnt happen on truck engines, and i would think the ecms would be alot more sohisticated than an outboard or marine engine. this service info would however be accessed through the dealer. if i wasnt given some sort of verbal history on a possible purchase then i could only assume the worst and would reconsider the sale and go elsewhere.so in answer to the question, so long as confidential information is with held, my answer would be yes.