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Hell Boy
10-11-2009, 06:40 PM
Hi all,

my brother asked me if he could have a drive of the boat last time we went out, and i said nope because he didn't have a boat license and with my luck i'd get pinged.

is it legal for someone to drive a boat without a license when there is a person on board with a license?

Cheers,

Blackened
10-11-2009, 06:43 PM
G'day

Yes,

Dave

bustaonenut
10-11-2009, 06:57 PM
G'day

Yes,

Dave


as long as the person with the licence is under .05 blood alcohol level

krazyfisher
10-11-2009, 07:05 PM
and over 16... 16 i think

Spaniard_King
10-11-2009, 07:06 PM
yep.. anyone can drive as long as there is a licence holder onboard ready to take control as required.

trueblue
10-11-2009, 07:15 PM
I get my young sons to drive under instruction. They are in a real learning phase, and just soak up information and remember it. better they learn young that have to do it the hard way on their own after waiting to get their license

cheers

mick

mookyandlumpy
10-11-2009, 07:19 PM
Unlicensed drivers
Unlicensed drivers may drive a boat provided a licensed driver is onboard supervising and is able to take immediate control of the boat. Unlicensed drivers must not operate boats while towing someone else by a line attached to the ship for example, someone waterskiing or riding a toboggan or tube.

from the qld site

wayno60
10-11-2009, 07:56 PM
Also if the motor is 6hp or less you dont need a licence.

geoffmck
10-11-2009, 07:58 PM
In Victoria you must have a licence to operate a power boat. From the Marine Safety Victoria site.........


Recreational boat operator licensing

All boat operators require a licence to operate a powered recreational
vessel in Victoria. The Marine Act 1988 states that:
• any person who operates a registered recreational powerboat
must have a licence
• operators of personal watercraft (PWCs) must have their
licence endorsed accordingly
• interstate licences will be automatically recognised in Victoria.

Kind of defeats the purpose if someone without a licence can drive/navigate etc. without knowing the rules.............but then again, they pretty much hand the licences out here by helping you answer the questions if you do the test at a "course night". Cheers

bassfan
10-11-2009, 08:18 PM
yep.. anyone can drive as long as there is a licence holder onboard ready to take control as required.

There is a world beyond Qld, & believe it or not sometimes they don't follow the same rules as the banana benders. In NSW you can drive any size boat without a licence as long as you are going under 10 knots. If you are going faster than this then the person driving must legally be licenced. None of that driving under supervision rubbish that they allow in Qld, which in my opinion is a joke because there is no way that the licenced person on board could actually take charge and prevent an accident in time.

trueblue
10-11-2009, 08:25 PM
None of that driving under supervision rubbish that they allow in Qld, which in my opinion is a joke because there is no way that the licenced person on board could actually take charge and prevent an accident in time.

How do you figure that......... If the supervising person waits till an accident is imminent, then they are not actually supervising.

A person properly supervising should take control way before any situation becomes hazardous.

take for example my boys. I'll get one of them to drive from about 5 miles out until the harbour leads, then the other one to drive through the leads and into the harbour. Or I let them drive to pick up crab pots etc. If the sea conditions are not suitable, i don't let them drive. if a boat or jet ski is in the vicinity, or in the leads, I don't let them drive. If I am not happy with what they are doing, they lose their drive. I take over several minutes before any possible hazardous situation could arise.

Its only a joke if you are not actually supervising. Bit of a harsh call there mate.

I learned the hard way at 28 yrs old with no one to teach me...... and I made a heap of really bad mistakes - now my boys, 11 and 15 yrs old, are already learning to avoid those same mistakes through being taught under supervision. And I guarantee you those mistakes I made were not covered in the licensing training and tests (and I did a proper 4 day - 2 full weekends - REAL boat licensing training course before the crap courses became the norm)

Mick

PinHead
10-11-2009, 08:42 PM
There is a world beyond Qld, & believe it or not sometimes they don't follow the same rules as the banana benders. In NSW you can drive any size boat without a licence as long as you are going under 10 knots. If you are going faster than this then the person driving must legally be licenced. None of that driving under supervision rubbish that they allow in Qld, which in my opinion is a joke because there is no way that the licenced person on board could actually take charge and prevent an accident in time.

we know that but who would want to live in it..hehe

Fishmatics
10-11-2009, 09:24 PM
Hey Bassman, clearly 4 in a row(origin) starting to affect your diplomacy and thinking?

legsy11
10-11-2009, 10:28 PM
you may as well just round that off to 10 fishmatics.
the old carton of liquid gold may or may not have contributed to the qld boating seen in years gone by.
its really only a guideline course,you can only get better with experience.

oldboot
10-11-2009, 10:38 PM
The two concepts to note are... "supervising" ... and.. able to take "immediate" controll.

cheers

sleepygreg
10-11-2009, 10:41 PM
better check your info Bassfan.....unless it has changed since I last held a NSW boat licence (which it may very well have done...as this was a number of years ago) it was 'if you are driving a vessell capable of more than 10 knots' you needed a licence. Also If the vessel was powered by a motor under 10hp you didnt need a licence. Hence the plethora of 9.9hp outboards. I remember this from the 4 hour grilling I got from an old sea salt to get my licence at Admiralty House at Circular Quay in Sydney....ooh so many moons ago.......no open book tests.....pass mark was 90%.....less than that...come back when you have learnt the rules. But in those days....probably the majority of boaties didnt even have a licence. Also when i moved to Melbourne in 1988....you didnt need a licence to drive a rec boat....in fact ...i dont think there was one - though I would stand corrected on that. Hence I didnt renew my NSW licence....More from forgettng to do so than anything else. Now I am in Qld (and have been for some years)...I have to do the bloody course again up here to get my qld licence....and the bit that astounds me..is that once i have done the course and proved my competence in docking and doing a figure eight around a marker bouoy in a 5m tinnie...i am then licenced to drive anything up to a 60ft game boat...provided it is not being operated as a commercial vessel. (i am competent to do this and have been doing it for years...just currently unlicenced to do it).

Forget this state v state mentality, we are all Aussies, and the sooner uniform and COMPETENT licencing standards are introduced accross the board the safer we, and our crews, all may be.

(jumping off soap box now.....next speaker???)

Greg

bassfan
11-11-2009, 01:17 PM
better check your info Bassfan.....unless it has changed since I last held a NSW boat licence (which it may very well have done...as this was a number of years ago) it was 'if you are driving a vessell capable of more than 10 knots' you needed a licence. Also If the vessel was powered by a motor under 10hp you didnt need a licence. Hence the plethora of 9.9hp outboards. I remember this from the 4 hour grilling I got from an old sea salt to get my licence at Admiralty House at Circular Quay in Sydney....ooh so many moons ago.......no open book tests.....pass mark was 90%.....less than that...come back when you have learnt the rules. But in those days....probably the majority of boaties didnt even have a licence. Also when i moved to Melbourne in 1988....you didnt need a licence to drive a rec boat....in fact ...i dont think there was one - though I would stand corrected on that. Hence I didnt renew my NSW licence....More from forgettng to do so than anything else. Now I am in Qld (and have been for some years)...I have to do the bloody course again up here to get my qld licence....and the bit that astounds me..is that once i have done the course and proved my competence in docking and doing a figure eight around a marker bouoy in a 5m tinnie...i am then licenced to drive anything up to a 60ft game boat...provided it is not being operated as a commercial vessel. (i am competent to do this and have been doing it for years...just currently unlicenced to do it).

Forget this state v state mentality, we are all Aussies, and the sooner uniform and COMPETENT licencing standards are introduced accross the board the safer we, and our crews, all may be.

(jumping off soap box now.....next speaker???)

Greg

Must be my turn again ;D .
With all due respect Greg I do know my facts http://www.maritime.nsw.gov.au/rec_boating/boatingsafety.html, & suggest that you check yours. Also to the best of my knowledge it hasn't changed in the last 20 odd years that I have had both recreational & commercial boating qualifications in both NSW & Qld.

I agree that uniform state laws across this insane country would be in everyones interest (& I don't just mean boating laws), but I doubt it will ever happen as each state thinks that they do it the right way & refuse to conform to another states way of doing things, hence the differences continue.

I will say in regards to boating laws that I believe some of Qlds rules are better than other states and vice versa and that the ideal situation would be that the Feds took control (AMSA?) and combined the best regulations from each state for a national set of sensible boating regulations. Hope it happens in my lifetime..::)

bassfan
11-11-2009, 04:51 PM
How do you figure that......... If the supervising person waits till an accident is imminent, then they are not actually supervising.

A person properly supervising should take control way before any situation becomes hazardous.

take for example my boys. I'll get one of them to drive from about 5 miles out until the harbour leads, then the other one to drive through the leads and into the harbour. Or I let them drive to pick up crab pots etc. If the sea conditions are not suitable, i don't let them drive. if a boat or jet ski is in the vicinity, or in the leads, I don't let them drive. If I am not happy with what they are doing, they lose their drive. I take over several minutes before any possible hazardous situation could arise.

Its only a joke if you are not actually supervising. Bit of a harsh call there mate.

I learned the hard way at 28 yrs old with no one to teach me...... and I made a heap of really bad mistakes - now my boys, 11 and 15 yrs old, are already learning to avoid those same mistakes through being taught under supervision. And I guarantee you those mistakes I made were not covered in the licensing training and tests (and I did a proper 4 day - 2 full weekends - REAL boat licensing training course before the crap courses became the norm)

Mick

Spot on Mick & I commend you for being a responsible & properly supervising licenced adult, but many are not. I have seen many examples of unlicenced persons who don't have a clue and the licenced supervisor is not paying attention. The point I am making is that if you want to drive fast there is more potential for error or a collision and the person driving should have some idea of the rules before being allowed to do so. Having a licenced person at the other end of the boat is of no use if they are not properly supervising the unlicenced & inexperienced driver and able to quickly take control of the vessel.
I am all for inexperienced drivers learning from more experienced persons, but they should know the rules & have some idea before being allowed to drive a vessel at speed.

Angla
11-11-2009, 05:08 PM
Back to the original question, Yes you can in Qld but you must be able to take control of the vessel in any event to avoid danger. This would appear to be a pretty good common sense way to give inexperienced people a sample of what is expected of them and the joy of being in control of a leisure craft.

Also remember that a license is really just a piece of paper that allows you to continue to learn and gain experience whilst operating that particular piece of equipment, be it on land, water or in the air.

Safe Boating

Cheers
Chris

bassfan
11-11-2009, 05:16 PM
we know that but who would want to live in it..hehe

:o 8-) ;D ;D ;D Yup Queensland's a great place, shame it's full of all those pesky Queenslanders who drive boats without a licence.;)

bassfan
11-11-2009, 05:21 PM
Hey Bassman, clearly 4 in a row(origin) starting to affect your diplomacy and thinking?

Don't follow thugby & couldn't care who wins. ps it's bassfan with an "f"...;D

oldboot
11-11-2009, 05:29 PM
Yeh there have been ongoing problems with this concept of "supervision" in a variety of industrial areas........so some of them specificaly electrical and communications cabling they have seen the need to further specify what supervision means.... or remove the option altogether.

As books state......"must be able to take immediate control".
Ya cant do that from anywhere else in the boat but right next to the hlem.

Sooner or later someone will get zipped for this..... probably someone will get hurt.

cheers

wrxhoon
11-11-2009, 09:39 PM
Boat Driver Licensing

The speed at which a boat is driven
determines whether a person needs to
be licensed.
Any person who drives a powered vessel for
recreational purposes on NSW waters at a
speed of 10 knots or more must have a boat
driver’s licence.
Ten knots is the speed at which most
accelerating boats will start to plane – that is
rise up and skim on top of the water instead
of ploughing through it.
The exception is anyone who drives a personal
watercraft (PWC) at ANY speed must have
a PWC Licence.

sleepygreg
11-11-2009, 09:58 PM
Just to clarify something....I did say I got my licence in nsw many moons ago.....it was 1975....PWC's didnt exist then (by that definition)...and as i said....i will stand corrected on that. The 10knot rule was something I did query at the time...and the old bugger that was doing the testing was insistent that it was a vessel capable of 10knots or more, maybe he was wrong. I havent owned a boat since i was transferred to Melbourne, no point as all mates and relos had them, which is why I was slack in not renewing my licence. I do intend owning a boat in the next twelve months though, hence my interest in this post now.

Greg

Hell Boy
12-11-2009, 04:46 PM
Thanks guys,

I'll think ill just play it safe and tell him to get his license (he can learn a few of the boat rules first) and then he can have a play in my boat, while i'm in the boat of course.


cheers

thatsakeeper
13-11-2009, 04:27 PM
At 36 yrs old im entering my 4th month of boating. The licensing company on the day i got mine, might have just as well just took my money and gave it to me. We didnt even touch the Qld boatsafe workbook handed out to us.
It was all multiple choice questions including as we were running out of time, quote "here are the answers for last two topics, copy them down if you feel you want to." unquote. No one even checked my answers, just sign this.
Im not ashamed to say i probably shouldnt have left with a form stating i was "competent" that day. Looking back i clearly wasnt competent if you compared it to getting a license for a car.
The govt concept of stacking a dozen or more people in front of a projector for six hours and then a quick practical clearly in my own eyes is a crazy idea in making a safer place for all on the water.
One lady in the practical exam ran over the dummy to be rescued 3 times before the instuctor took over so we could retrieve it, not to forget a mention to the other dude who tried executing a figure 8 at 55mph throwing us all over the boat and it was obvious he never really had contol of the 2X150hp vessel, god i held on for dear life. They both walked away with competent.
Im no expert and i learn something everyday i put my boat in the water but people are getting licenses like phone cards...anyone can have one.
However, experience cant be taught in the classroom. Lets just hope common sense comes to the forefront for those who are not ready but are allowed to drive in our waters and supervise others operating their boat in Qld.

thatsakeeper
13-11-2009, 04:28 PM
At 36 yrs old im entering my 4th month of boating. The licensing company on the day i got mine, might have just as well just took my money and gave it to me. We didnt even touch the Qld boatsafe workbook handed out to us.
It was all multiple choice questions including as we were running out of time, quote "here are the answers for last two topics, copy them down if you feel you want to." unquote. No one even checked my answers, just sign this.
Im not ashamed to say i probably shouldnt have left with a form stating i was "competent" that day. Looking back i clearly wasnt competent if you compared it to getting a license for a car.
The govt concept of stacking a dozen or more people in front of a projector for six hours and then a quick practical clearly in my own eyes is a crazy idea in making a safer place for all on the water.
One lady in the practical exam ran over the dummy to be rescued 3 times before the instuctor took over so we could retrieve it, not to forget a mention to the other dude who tried executing a figure 8 at 55mph throwing us all over the boat and it was obvious he never really had contol of the 2X150hp vessel, god i held on for dear life. They both walked away with competent.
Im no expert and i learn something everyday i put my boat in the water but people are getting licenses like phone cards...anyone can have one.
However, experience cant be taught in the classroom. Lets just hope common sense comes to the forefront for those who are not ready but are allowed to drive in our waters and supervise others operating their boat in Qld.

trueblue
13-11-2009, 07:00 PM
well, this is where we went to as a society when we went to "competency based training"

its all about being commercialised, nothing else.

When i did my cert 4 in workplace training, it was a year at TAFE, 2 nights a week. now you can be turned into competent in 5 days with limited participation, just turn up and appear involved and you get it.

we are all screwed.................

seatime
13-11-2009, 09:08 PM
At 36 yrs old im entering my 4th month of boating. The licensing company on the day i got mine, might have just as well just took my money and gave it to me. We didnt even touch the Qld boatsafe workbook handed out to us.
It was all multiple choice questions including as we were running out of time, quote "here are the answers for last two topics, copy them down if you feel you want to." unquote. No one even checked my answers, just sign this.
Im not ashamed to say i probably shouldnt have left with a form stating i was "competent" that day. Looking back i clearly wasnt competent if you compared it to getting a license for a car.
The govt concept of stacking a dozen or more people in front of a projector for six hours and then a quick practical clearly in my own eyes is a crazy idea in making a safer place for all on the water.
One lady in the practical exam ran over the dummy to be rescued 3 times before the instuctor took over so we could retrieve it, not to forget a mention to the other dude who tried executing a figure 8 at 55mph throwing us all over the boat and it was obvious he never really had contol of the 2X150hp vessel, god i held on for dear life. They both walked away with competent.
Im no expert and i learn something everyday i put my boat in the water but people are getting licenses like phone cards...anyone can have one.
However, experience cant be taught in the classroom. Lets just hope common sense comes to the forefront for those who are not ready but are allowed to drive in our waters and supervise others operating their boat in Qld.

55mph, that's nearly a 100kph isn't it?
pretty fast for a 2x150hp vessel, unbelievably fast actually, totally unbelievably fast!!

thatsakeeper
13-11-2009, 09:28 PM
sigh...it was 55kph

seatime
14-11-2009, 06:22 AM
thatsakeeper,

feedback on Qld Transports website

"What to expect from a BoatSafe marine driver licence course"
http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Licensing/Recreational/Boatsafe_course

Angla
14-11-2009, 06:45 AM
55mph, that's nearly a 100kph isn't it?
pretty fast for a 2x150hp vessel, unbelievably fast actually, totally unbelievably fast!!

We are all fishermen and prone to a little exaggeration at times, I know I have when telling a story as it makes the story better.

Cheers
Chris

seatime
14-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Ok, the tongue-in-cheek came across harsh.

bassfan
15-11-2009, 04:59 PM
One lady in the practical exam ran over the dummy to be rescued 3 times before the instuctor took over so we could retrieve it, not to forget a mention to the other dude who tried executing a figure 8 at 55mph throwing us all over the boat and it was obvious he never really had contol of the 2X150hp vessel, god i held on for dear life. They both walked away with competent.


Mate this ďnstructor" (for want of a better word) should be reported to Marine Safety Queensland (MSQ) for failing in his duty to properly assess people for a licence. I know that in the past QB & FP have put officers undercover through these courses and some of them have had their Instructors accreditation cancelled for just this sort of thing. What these slackarse instructors don't appreciate is that someone could get killed because they gave an incompetent person a licence, and that is a big responsibility.