Brand Name Dodgy Braid?

[darylive]

There has been a few reports lately of brand name braid failing.

I don't know if we can mention brand names on here so I can't say the problem I had was with Fireline 4 which was a night mare. Not only was it like coiled wire and stiff as, it was constantly tangling even after extensive trolling with just a jig head to try and sort it; and it seemed to brake way too easy. :(
Fireline is not top shelf but they don't give it away!

Other mates have recently complained of some other expensive braid failing as well. >:(

Is there perhaps some dodgy product running through the few braid factories lately?

Are they dropping quality control to keep up with demand now everyone is using it?

These problems were with new braid not worn old worn out line and not cheap stuff! :'(

Has anybody else had similar problems? :-/

[Damned67]

I spooled a reel with a cheap braid that I got on sale at a chain store that starts with 'B'.... can't remember the name of the braid, but it was terrible. Since then I've spooled up probably 10 reels with Fireline. I've been quite happy with it, and like it's breaking strain, but agree it's pretty stiff. A week or so ago, I spooled three reels with Spiderwire Stealth Camo.... Such a difference. So much nicer than the Fireline, although breaks a little more closely to it's listed strain than Fireline.

I guess that doesn't really address your question, does it?

[darylive]

Still interesting to hear of others experiences / opinions. Some like Fireline because it is stiff apparently?

[Horse]

Sounds like a dodgy batch. I have had two bad ones:P . Both were in Pink so I steer clear of it now>:( . The first was 10lb that I could snap with my hands. Try that with normal fireline and you would be picking up fingers off the floor;D . The second was 14lb that broke off the first 3 casts (along with 65gm Raiders)>:(

It is a little stiff at the start but I like it up tp 10lb for plastic fishing. I am using microfuse a lot now but still have reels loaded with Fireline

I think most people have had a bad experience or two with various braids as they all seem to vary a little

Neil

[Goldfinch]

Not sure what others think but I only use Fins and Tuf Line and have never had a problem with either. Buy it from Ebay sellers and it's 40% cheaper than the rip off chains. I bought some cheap stuff once and took it off after a couple of weeks. Never turned back.

[Nico.d.R]

i bought fireline once for a bait caster and didnt like it , so i went back to using fins . Another braid i like is the stren stuff it seems pretty good and they make a micro fused line now aswell i have used the 3lb,6lb and 15lb and for sp's the 3 and 6 is good , but i have been noticing that if i use sp's with the 15lb i get more wind knots , but i dont get knots using blades with the 15lb .

cheers nico

[NAGG]

As Daryl & I discussed via pm ( & I mentioned in a trip report) - to see 3 barra lost to line failure over a weekend ..... does send a shock through the system. Then to see a brand new spool of a top shelf braid bought on the day - get castaway ::) (20M from the leader knot) - that has to make you a little anxious.......

For the record..... my example was a spool of middle to high end braid that was only on its second trip.

I've been using braid since it first became available in the 90s ...... but it is only this year that i have had failures (5 from 3 manufacturers)

As for fireline ...... I wont use any other in the lower line classes (spin gear) those attributes of being stiff & wiry ...... help avoid wind knots.

Chris

[darylive]

Not sure what others think but I only use Fins and Tuf Line and have never had a problem with either. Buy it from Ebay sellers and it's 40% cheaper than the rip off chains. I bought some cheap stuff once and took it off after a couple of weeks. Never turned back.

Both on my preferred list with no problems. And I have used the same vendor ;)


i bought fireline once for a bait caster and didnt like it , so i went back to using fins . Another braid i like is the stren stuff it seems pretty good and they make a micro fused line now aswell i have used the 3lb,6lb and 15lb and for sp's the 3 and 6 is good , but i have been noticing that if i use sp's with the 15lb i get more wind knots , but i dont get knots using blades with the 15lb .

cheers nico

Again a good braid


As Daryl & I discussed via pm ( & I mentioned in a trip report) - to see 3 barra lost to line failure over a weekend ..... does send a shock through the system. Then to see a brand new spool of a top shelf braid bought on the day - get castaway ::) (20M from the leader knot) - that has to make you a little anxious.......

For the record..... my example was a spool of middle to high end braid that was only on its second trip.

I've been using braid since it first became available in the 90s ...... but it is only this year that i have had failures (5 from 3 manufacturers)

As for fireline ...... I wont use any other in the lower line classes (spin gear) those attributes of being stiff & wiry ...... help avoid wind knots.

Chris

The spool I had must have been dodgy, enough to put me off it.
I had it on a spin outfit by the way.

[Chamelion]

I've been using the following braids:

Rapala Titanium - 6lb, 8lb, 14lb
Mojiko - 6lb, 10lb, 30lb, 50lb
Crane - 8lb
Penn pro power - 20lb
Power Pro - 15lb

To date the only braid to have failed me is the Mojiko in the 6lb. It's been in use about 8 months and it's gone a bit strange. Knot strength is almost non existent.

[darylive]

I've been using the following braids:

Rapala Titanium - 6lb, 8lb, 14lb
Mojiko - 6lb, 10lb, 30lb, 50lb
Crane - 8lb
Penn pro power - 20lb
Power Pro - 15lb

To date the only braid to have failed me is the Mojiko in the 6lb. It's been in use about 8 months and it's gone a bit strange. Knot strength is almost non existent.

I have some Mojinko, 4lb I think, no trouble yet but has had very little use. In fact I think I respoolled with it when I tossed the fireline. Longevity is another issue.

thanks

[Chamelion]

If it's the "superstring" it'll probably be fine. It's the slightly cheaper one that I'm having issues with.

Matt.

[BarraBandit]

I must say... I wont use anything that isnt a great braid, I try only to use Jigman Braid and alot of very expencive, but effective japan braids... I personly use very expencive rods, reels, lures and hooks... I dont want to be failed by a cheap or inafective braid when I spend so much time and money... I am sure alot of you would feel the same way.

I do run Tuffline and other braids that cost around the same price on my spare reels, cant always affored expencive braids on reels I might not (maybe ever) get to use. :P

There are alot of great braids out there guys, remember, the line and hook is the only thing connecting you to that fish of a lifetime so dont be stingy! :P

[deepfried]

I must say... I wont use anything that isnt a great braid, I try only to use Jigman Braid and alot of very expencive, but effective japan braids... I personly use very expencive rods, reels, lures and hooks... I dont want to be failed by a cheap or inafective braid when I spend so much time and money... I am sure alot of you would feel the same way.

I do run Tuffline and other braids that cost around the same price on my spare reels, cant always affored expencive braids on reels I might not (maybe ever) get to use. :P

There are alot of great braids out there guys, remember, the line and hook is the only thing connecting you to that fish of a lifetime so dont be stingy! :P

barrabandit what ever job you have at your age to afford all that very expensive gear i want. I might then be able to pay of my mortgage, personal loans, credits cards, power bills, rego, water, rates, present for the wife, clothes for for son etc etc etc and then go out and buy a nice outfit to fish with.

Enjoy it while you can. It stops after marriage and kids.;D :'(

Plenty of good braids out there and there are also a few bad ones. The worst thing with me is that the one i like one month i hate the next because i found something different that does the job better. The one thing i have learnt though is that thinner is not always better. No use buying the thinest braid to have it pop on some snag or rock. A few members here put me onto tuffline and for what i use it on it is good value. Handles the rocks very well, casts well and seems to hold it structure well ( does that make sense, doesnt fluff up ).

scott

[NAGG]

Here is a thought

Braid is made from Dyneema or Spectra fibres (Ultra High molecular weight polyethylene) ..... basically these are identical products......

Now there are only 2 or 3 manufacturers that produce the UHMWPE polymer + just few spin-dying plants around the world that extrude the fibres. These Spin-dyers would be supplying all the manufactures of fishing line , rope etc etc.

OK ..... Knowing how the plastic industry is - There would be batches of off spec polymer produced (10s of tonnes at a time) They might contain residual catalyst, gels or lower molecular weight / melt flow . These batches normally would be sold off to lower end applications or may even be offered to fibre manufactures which would then could be sold onto line braiders - These braids may end up with lower tensile strength or other inconsistent properties. ....... So this is above board & a common industry practise. ( these fibres may end up in your no frills braids - You can work these brands out for yourself ...... by price usually)

The other thing that could happen is the extruders of the Spectra or Dyneema fibres may have had some issues during the spin-dye process which may have lead to inconsistent gauge of the fibres for a short period before it stabilises - sometimes this may not be picked up on & get through. - There is so much that can go wrong with the extrusion of fibres........ & even with all the inline high tech monitoring equipment .. measuring gauge etc things can go wrong ( dye hole blockage , drop a heating element , bridging at the extrusion feed section etc
This fibre could end up all over the world...... & could explain why there may be issues at various braid manufactures.

All this ..... even before it gets to the braiders like Sunline , YGK , Australian Monofil etc etc.

Anyhow...... just some thoughts

With just a few plants supplying the main raw material component & only a few spin-dyers of the fibres certainly has the potential for widespread issues.

Chris

[aussiebasser]

Fireline is not braid. It is fused, which is why it is stiffer. (Similar to Spiderwire Fusion) I've had some 10lb Fireline fail recently from a brand new spool. Tangling problems can occur with winding the braid onto the spool loosely. It needs to be as tight as you can get it. If fishing with small rubbers, every few casts you should bring the lure in and use your fingers to put as much pressure on the line as you can. If you wind the handle to close the bail arm, make sure you don't have a bit of line over the top of the spool. It's better to close the bail arm by hand.

[NAGG]

Fireline is not braid. It is fused, which is why it is stiffer. (Similar to Spiderwire Fusion) I've had some 10lb Fireline fail recently from a brand new spool. Tangling problems can occur with winding the braid onto the spool loosely. It needs to be as tight as you can get it. If fishing with small rubbers, every few casts you should bring the lure in and use your fingers to put as much pressure on the line as you can. If you wind the handle to close the bail arm, make sure you don't have a bit of line over the top of the spool. It's better to close the bail arm by hand.

Fused what ::) ;D ;D

I know what you are saying AB :) Fireline is not a true braid ..... though it is still a braid (thermally fused braid)

Chris

[aussiebasser]

Fused what ::) ;D ;D

I know what you are saying AB :) Fireline is not a true braid ..... though it is still a braid (thermally fused braid)

Chris
Braid is produced by a braiding process, similar to braiding hair. Fireline is not braided, the strands are run alongside each other and fused together, this is what makes it stiffer than braid. It is not thermally fused braid, it is thermally fused dyneema or spectra. I don't know if anyone bothers to themally fuse braid, as the braiding process keeps the strands together anyway, the fusing would be superfluous. If people understand the process they will understand why certain lines are stiffer. I believe Rod Harrison has a book about Braids coming out soon. It should explain it a whole lot better than I can.

[banshee]

Fused what ::) ;D ;D ........



Technicaly Aussiebasser is spot on,Fireline is fused Gel Spun Pollyethelyne,it is just that everyone (myself included) has adopted the easy way out and branded all GSP lines as 'braid',it is not braid 'til it is woven.It is much along the same lines as people incorectly refering to Jap line thickness as PE,perhaps the japs have the right idea in refering to their GSP lines as PE.

[NAGG]

There are plenty of braided lines that are also fused together ( Fins , Platyl Millennium & Stren Microfuse ) are ones that come to straight to mind.

GSP (in fishing speak) is just a common term for UHMWPE fibres ( trade names Dyneema & Spectra)

In a nutshell those processes that rely totally on a weave of the fibres are True braids (Bionic , Nitlon, Jigman , Sunline PE , Daiwa Sensor etc) - complex weaves that can give varying properties....... just like 4 strand & 8 strand rope .... and how you weave them together

Fused braids use another polymer to bond the fibres together ..... usually melted - hence thermally fused braids - just like a hot melt glue ( you often end up with a smoother coating ).

so we are really all over the shop - For me I just say True braid or fused braid

chris

[aussiebasser]

Well there you go. Chris likes to call it fused braid so fused braid it shall be. Even if it is not braided which is why it is so stiff.

[darylive]

well it seems there is Fused parallel PE the stiff stuff, fireline spider wire etc.

true Braided line like Bionic etc.

And line that is braided and fused.

So are problems more likely in the simple fused lines. I imagine as the fusing is presumably a heat process that any slight variation could cause a flaw in the line integrity. At least with true braid even if one strand had a week spot the other braided strands would provide strength. If the whole line is heated together either braided or parallel there is the risk of a fault.

It certainly makes sense that the parallel fused line is stiffer than braid.
It is a different product. ;)
The question is dependability for outlay and it seems others have had problems. :-/

Thanks all for your contribution so far. :) You have all done well. ::)

[NAGG]

well it seems there is Fused parallel PE the stiff stuff, fireline spider wire etc.

true Braided line like Bionic etc.

And line that is braided and fused.

So are problems more likely in the simple fused lines. I imagine as the fusing is presumably a heat process that any slight variation could cause a flaw in the line integrity. At least with true braid even if one strand had a week spot the other braided strands would provide strength.

It certainly makes sense that the parallel fused line is stiffer than braid.
It is a different product. ;)
The question is dependability for outlay and it seems others have had problems. :-/

Thanks all for your contribution so far. :) You have all done well. ::)

Is there such an animal :-/ - Even fireline is formed ( braided) .. Basic yes - but still braided ...... try to pull some apart ::)

chris

[aussiebasser]

There is a difference between braiding and twisting Chris. Fireline is not braided, it is twisted and fused. Berkley themselves refer to it as Thermal Filament Fishing Line. You will not find Berkley referring to the braiding process anywhere it refers to Fireline, because if they did they'd be making an incorrect statement. Do you understand the braiding process, a bit like a plait where the strands are passed over and under each other. Your reference to rope before is a bit off target as most rope is not braided, it is twisted as is Fireline. The softer yachting ropes are braided, a bit like braid. Believe me, any product marketed in the US as braid will be braided, any product like Fireline and Spiderwire Fusion will not refer to themselves as braid.

[banshee]

.......... Do you understand the braiding process, a bit like a plait where the strands are passed over and under each other.......

I read somewhere that fused braids came about because the early machines used to braid the fibers were painstakingly slow,I think it stated that they used to braid an inch or two a minute.

[NAGG]

There is a difference between braiding and twisting Chris. Fireline is not braided, it is twisted and fused. Berkley themselves refer to it as Thermal Filament Fishing Line. You will not find Berkley referring to the braiding process anywhere it refers to Fireline, because if they did they'd be making an incorrect statement. Do you understand the braiding process, a bit like a plait where the strands are passed over and under each other. Your reference to rope before is a bit off target as most rope is not braided, it is twisted as is Fireline. The softer yachting ropes are braided, a bit like braid. Believe me, any product marketed in the US as braid will be braided, any product like Fireline and Spiderwire Fusion will not refer to themselves as braid.

Hi AB ....

I'm not trying to be argumentative here ..... but my observation was that fireline was not just simply twisted together - (In 4lb) clearly there were 4 main groups of fibres that were then ( passed over / under each other )........:-/ It certainly doesn't unravel like a twist.
Anyhow if you try it yourself , you will see what I mean.

Chris

PS ..... If you go to the Berkley (US) website - under the superlines subheading - there is Fireline braid ::) .....

[aussiebasser]

Hi AB ....

I'm not trying to be argumentative here .....


Yes you are.

[GPB]

I read somewhere that fused braids came about because the early machines used to braid the fibers were painstakingly slow,I think it stated that they used to braid an inch or two a minute.

Yes! and time means money, so out came the fused Braid [Spiderwire Fusion] followed a few years later buy Burkley Fireline.
Burkley Gorilla Braid was a different concept, it had a fine green Mono core which gave some colour and made knot tying easier but made it approx 1/2 the size of the same strength Mono rather than 1/3 the size.

[NAGG]

Yes you are.

Fair enough:P

[oldboot]

Back to the original post.......my mate steve who works in a tackle store says there have been dud batches or reels of fireline.....this is known......aparantly burkley quickly and cheerfully replace it.



And no fire line isn't braided... just like nonwoven fabrics arent woven...if the line is extruded hot into the line or later fuesed from cold filaments.....those filamants will bond very strogly together.

true braids are obviously braided......and there are reasons that fire line is cheaper that a a braided product ( on a simlar price structure).

yes the production process will be very much faster.

cheers

[kickback]

Well.. i've just disposed 300ft of fireline on my main spool and spare spool. I'm just sick of the knots and stiffness. Read lots of great things bout Fins on here so got myself a couple of spools :)

[darylive]

NAGG: "I am not trying to be argumentative here" (Nah not NAGG):angel:

AusBass "yes you are" (who Nagg? surly not) ::)

NAGG "fair enough:P" Good on ya Chris its a fair cop :LOL:



:LMAO:

[darylive]

Back to the original post.......my mate steve who works in a tackle store says there have been dud batches or reels of fireline.....this is known......aparantly burkley quickly and cheerfully replace it.



And no fire line isn't braided... just like nonwoven fabrics arent woven...if the line is extruded hot into the line or later fuesed from cold filaments.....those filamants will bond very strogly together.

true braids are obviously braided......and there are reasons that fire line is cheaper that a a braided product ( on a simlar price structure).

yes the production process will be very much faster.

cheers

Well there ya go :D Thanks Oldboot, good work noted ;)

[RAT-KING]

I was using a popular Green braid 8mths ago and lost wat im guessing was a 20kg+ cobia straight down because of it it was straight out of the packet second cast!!! i will never buy it again!!! and i wopuld like to b reimbursed for mental anguish!