Topwater Barra

[NAGG]

Anyone who has witnessed / experienced the strike of a barra on a topwater lure will all agree that its something that gets the juices flowing ..... Well it certainly it does for me. :P

Ok ..... We know that it is a technique that works ( frogs , walk the dog , blooping etc) :) but is it a technique that is overused / over rated as a truly successful means as catching barra ....... ( honest question) or is it in fact underutilised.

I'm interested in hearing your experiences with regard to this method ..... how many actually try it , how long do you persevere , do you use it at particular times of day / night , light levels , particular locations or are there other influences that will have you diving for a surface lure ( bait activity , boofing , insect activity , weather conditions)

or is it a case of with a reasonably poor hookup rate or lack of success you don't bother.

We saw last year the increase in interest on the back of the commercialisation of surface frogging - how many have continued to pursue that style with vigour or has it gone by the by.

Just a throw around topic to share ........ & maybe help others out

Chris

PS ..... I personally don't jump out of my skin to fish surface ( too many fruitless hours spent:( ) - I will do it when conditions feel right - maybe thats to my detriment :-/

[ifishcq1]

Nagg
although I fish mostly salt I have the same dilemas
pretty well get 90%+ of my barras on very deep divers except for yesterday when I had hundreds of casts with divers and plastics for only a couple of baby taps
so I put on a surface walker and almost immediately onto a barra then another and lastly a little jack, a nice buzz seeing them smack a lure almost out of the water
as far as the big dams are concerned I use the same techniques and can have either very good days or very bad, but still learning
people only stop using lures or plastics that work when another something catches their attention, probably the old original ideas will still catch fish given the same effort

cheers

[leelee]

I always have a topwater lure rigged for any species.

For barra i toss it around when ever fishing depths less then 6-7foot. I just cycle through the lures and the topwater gets a run each and everyday if I find myself fishing those depths.

Normally I throw it around for about 30 mins each time I use it and possbily several times a day. Although I do prefer morning and afternoon topwater but will resort to topwater anytime if I feel its worth a shot.

Have not had a heap of impoundment barra experience but what i have experienced and learnt is they will come up to topwaters any time of the day if they feel the need 8-)

Cheers

Lee

[NAGG]

I always have a topwater lure rigged for any species.

For barra i toss it around when ever fishing depths less then 6-7foot. I just cycle through the lures and the topwater gets a run each and everyday if I find myself fishing those depths.

Normally I throw it around for about 30 mins each time I use it and possbily several times a day. Although I do prefer morning and afternoon topwater but will resort to topwater anytime if I feel its worth a shot.

Have not had a heap of impoundment barra experience but what i have experienced and learnt is they will come up to topwaters any time of the day if they feel the need 8-)

Cheers

Lee

Hi Lee

I noticed that you like your top water :)

Do you like it because of the effectiveness or like it because of the excitement / visual strike :P

Cheers

Chris

[Big_Ren]

Mostly fish topwaters at first light Chris. Great topic. Usually they will be with a dog turd (Cultiva Tango Dancer) or a Bill's Bug (Benny put me onto that one). The Bug is very interesting. Cast it further than a Russian Javelin thrower at the Moscow Olympics;D And then let it sit........sit some more.......keep sitting......sit, sit, sit until all those water ringlets disappear and do it all over again until she's back on your rod tip....a genuine 2-3 minute retrieve. The hardest part is just watching that bassard sit on the surface while you pause.

Cheers
Paul

[NAGG]

Mostly fish topwaters at first light Chris. Great topic. Usually they will be with a dog turd (Cultiva Tango Dancer) or a Bill's Bug (Benny put me onto that one). The Bug is very interesting. Cast it further than a Russian Javelin thrower at the Moscow Olympics;D And then let it sit........sit some more.......keep sitting......sit, sit, sit until all those water ringlets disappear and do it all over again until she's back on your rod tip....a genuine 2-3 minute retrieve. The hardest part is just watching that bassard sit on the surface while you pause.

Cheers
Paul

The bills bug with the prop Paul ????

You certainly can have a retrieve that goes for a long time ....... & I certainly feel that the pause is a big part of it :)

Chris

[WestOzDesertFisher]

Interesting... I'm currently pursuing my first ever saltwater barra up here in the Kimberley of WA. Hopefully this info will put me on to a fish. All info appreciated.

[birko]

Dont be afraid to go surface any time of the day.

That area of lay down that you know holds fish....just because you can feel it should...but you cant raise a strike. Hit it with a few casts with a basic popper or fizzer then back in with sub surface.

Your not gunna eat your weatbix unless your awake and know that they are in the pantry are you.

Craig

[Big_Ren]

The bills bug with the prop Paul ????

You certainly can have a retrieve that goes for a long time ....... & I certainly feel that the pause is a big part of it :)

Chris

Spot on Chris. That's the one. I don't know how the old bugger did it, but FrankOO got a great action pic of one of Ben's fish taking his Bug on the strike. Very impressive. It has been on AF before...don't know how to find it though.

Cheers
Paul

[NAGG]

Interesting... I'm currently pursuing my first ever saltwater barra up here in the Kimberley of WA. Hopefully this info will put me on to a fish. All info appreciated.

Now you've got me jealous ......... let us all know how you go

Chris

[NAGG]

Spot on Chris. That's the one. I don't know how the old bugger did it, but FrankOO got a great action pic of one of Ben's fish taking his Bug on the strike. Very impressive. It has been on AF before...don't know how to find it though.

Cheers
Paul

I've got a couple too ....... I haven't used them much though

chris

[NAGG]

Dont be afraid to go surface any time of the day.

That area of lay down that you know holds fish....just because you can feel it should...but you cant raise a strike. Hit it with a few casts with a basic popper or fizzer then back in with sub surface.

Your not gunna eat your weatbix unless your awake and know that they are in the pantry are you.

Craig

Good one Craig !

How successful have you been when using topwater during the day ?

With the exception of a salty session over some flats up near Cardwell ..... My efforts have been pretty fruitless
I've gotta say though ...... I reckon places like your locals ( Teemburra & Kinchant) would be much more conducive to daytime topwater ..... due to either their expansive weedbeds or shaded areas. :P

Cheers

Chris

[Pete62]

Firstly, I can only imagine what a proper surface Barra strike would be like, must be like someone throwing a fridge in the water;D

I guess knowing that Barra and Bass have different food sources it would differ but other than dawn and dusk the next best time to get surface action on Bass is when it starts to rain.

Perhaps there is more insects etc on the surface being washed off trees and the like.

Pete.

[NAGG]

Firstly, I can only imagine what a proper surface Barra strike would be like, must be like someone throwing a fridge in the water;D

I guess knowing that Barra and Bass have different food sources it would differ but other than dawn and dusk the next best time to get surface action on Bass is when it starts to rain.

Perhaps there is more insects etc on the surface being washed off trees and the like.

Pete.

;D ;D Something like throwing a fridge !

I had a hit at the back of the boat in March ( night time) scared the crap out of Whitey & I + absolutely drenched us - a real WTF moment !

low light levels ...... for sure
i've also heard of great daytime sessions during a rise in water levels casting into the newly flooded areas Or fishing areas of floating debris - I reckon the Tinaroo boys would have a ball with what amounts to runoff type fishing during the wet season:)

Chris

[birko]

How successful have you been when using topwater during the day ?

Chris

Will happily chuck a popper any time of the day, I rarely leave an area that I think holds fish without throwing a bit of surface work at it. You really can work a lot of areas with a popper that you cant with a hrd of soft lure unless you go weedless and sacrifice the hook up rate. Those area with 5 or 6 inches of water over weed beds with pockets are prime.

At teemburra I find tango props and bubble pops work very well. I have tried frogs such as the zooms etc but with no fish put in the boat, although I didnt really spend that much time on it.

As far as pauses and retrieves go, it is the same as any method, vary the retrieve until you find what works. But the next fish I catch on plastic first cast after a bit of surface work in the same area wont be the first.

Craig

[Barry Ehsman]

I have caught a lot of cod down this way on surface lures ....But even though they don't hit anywhere near as hard as a Barra the adrenalin rush would still be the same (absolutly love it)

Cheers Baz

[NAGG]

I have caught a lot of cod down this way on surface lures ....But even though they don't hit anywhere near as hard as a Barra the adrenalin rush would still be the same (absolutly love it)

Cheers Baz

Hi Baz

anyone that I know that fishes & have caught bream , bass or barra on surface lures would all agree ........ Is there a better way to catch em :-/

I had no idea that cod hit surface lures :P ...... hmmm

chris

[Barry Ehsman]

Hi Chris
Yes mate Cod go really well on the surface especially when the cicada's are around & falling into the water ( even better when they hit the lure right beside the canoe,, get's the heart pumping)

But i have caught them any time of the year mainly around dusk...

Cheers baz

[NAGG]

While I dont do a great deal of topwater work -These are my favourites (caught fish :P )

52604 Classic topwater (walk the dog)

52605 Walk the dog style that can be blooped (tight action) .... Saratoga seem to like them too:) ..... nice to use over weedbeds & a bit more subtle

52606 Big topwater (walk the dog) big rattle , casts a mile

52607 Popper ( good popping noise & spray)

[vinny78]

Chris, have you ever tried using a bouyant DIVING lure such as a Classic or a Scorpion in a "topwater" fashion? Cast it out and retrieve it by small downward flicks of the rod tip, making the lure dive only a foot or so, then letting the lure rise and sit on the surface until all the ripples dissipate. Repeat this back to the boat/ feet/ rodtip.

It's worked for me.
Andrew

[NAGG]

Chris, have you ever tried using a bouyant DIVING lure such as a Classic or a Scorpion in a "topwater" fashion? Cast it out and retrieve it by small downward flicks of the rod tip, making the lure dive only a foot or so, then letting the lure rise and sit on the surface until all the ripples dissipate. Repeat this back to the boat/ feet/ rodtip.

It's worked for me.
Andrew

Hi Andrew

Thats how I fished the Stiffy diver over the winter months ......... Though the lure was rigged / weighted to rise very slowly - good little technique specially over the top of submerged spindly trees.

chris

[leelee]

Hi Lee

I noticed that you like your top water :)

Do you like it because of the effectiveness or like it because of the excitement / visual strike :P

Cheers

Chris

To be honest i use it becuse most people don't.

To me that means it it not utilised enough and the fish have not seen as many topwater lures, well the ones i use, compared to frogs and tangos. I think this would make them not as wary and possible most inclined to take a swipe.

When i was fishing with Shane at the muster I had a boil up on the lure at late morning or early arvo. It sort of proves my theory that they will hit topwater anytie of days given the right conditions.

Plus the other reason is it breaks up the pattern of lures already thrown so it can give an area the rest it needs if its been flogged.

Cheers

Lee

[NAGG]

To be honest i use it becuse most people don't.

To me that means it it not utilised enough and the fish have not seen as many topwater lures, well the ones i use, compared to frogs and tangos. I think this would make them not as wary and possible most inclined to take a swipe.

When i was fishing with Shane at the muster I had a boil up on the lure at late morning or early arvo. It sort of proves my theory that they will hit topwater anytie of days given the right conditions.

Plus the other reason is it breaks up the pattern of lures already thrown so it can give an area the rest it needs if its been flogged.

Cheers

Lee

Thanks Lee

I've seen a few people fish topwater ....... because it becomes obsessive - lots of time spent for little result .

interesting to see who else have had good success through daylight hours.

Chris

[BLOOEY]

My favourite form of fishing by far. But your'e right nagg it is obsessive same as fly fishing. I fish surface lurers more than anything else these days as it increses the enjoyment tenfold. Only caught 3 barra on them though (but worth 30 in my book). Used the top and bottom lure in your pic by the way. Ben

[Steve B]

Been watching this thread NAGGasaurus!! very good one again. Surface is the best fun fishing there is.....regardless of species IMHO. Love it. As for the barra, There are rare moments in a day where you get this feeling that they will hit a surface...and it usually cooncides with 'boofing' activity...something I am yet to witness this year:-/....you remember last years muster on the tues nite....that was one of those moments....usually only short periods (max 1hr) but its a popathon when it happens....I think we got 8 or 9 in an hour that night...and missed more.....favorite lure is still the roosta poppa...I have always been a fan of cup faced poppas for some reason. never really tried the others too much...or successfully.

Cheers Steve

[NAGG]

Been watching this thread NAGGasaurus!! very good one again. Surface is the best fun fishing there is.....regardless of species IMHO. Love it. As for the barra, There are rare moments in a day where you get this feeling that they will hit a surface...and it usually cooncides with 'boofing' activity...something I am yet to witness this year:-/....you remember last years muster on the tues nite....that was one of those moments....usually only short periods (max 1hr) but its a popathon when it happens....I think we got 8 or 9 in an hour that night...and missed more.....favorite lure is still the roosta poppa...I have always been a fan of cup faced poppas for some reason. never really tried the others too much...or successfully.

Cheers Steve

Thanks Steve

i remember that night very well ....... we had a ball (sub surface) but heard about your exploits -- --- SWEET :P

At mondy ...... I've only had that one evening where it just felt like it was going to happen ....... & it did - but with more subtle lures.
fished surface on quite a few occasions during sunset ....... for very little interest

As always Steve appreciate your input

Chris

[NAGG]

My favourite form of fishing by far. But your'e right nagg it is obsessive same as fly fishing. I fish surface lurers more than anything else these days as it increses the enjoyment tenfold. Only caught 3 barra on them though (but worth 30 in my book). Used the top and bottom lure in your pic by the way. Ben

Hi Blooey ..... I can understand your favouritism - What can one say ::) :P - The next chance I have to fish some shallow flats at night ...... i'll spend some more time fishing topwater :)

chris

[Steve B]

Thanks Steve

i remember that night very well ....... we had a ball (sub surface) but heard about your exploits -- --- SWEET :P

At mondy ...... I've only had that one evening where it just felt like it was going to happen ....... & it did - but with more subtle lures.
fished surface on quite a few occasions during sunset ....... for very little interest

As always Steve appreciate your input

Chris

Although I am perplexed as to why we haven't seen or heard of similar surface sessions this year??mmm....mabey its the big focus on plastics these days....I dont know...mabey it has been happening, but I haven't heard many reports. I think the 'window' is very small as I said previously, suface action (bait and fish) tend to be the giveaway...for me anyway..

Thanks mate..keep on the surface bite at teemburra if it happens again this year...we had a ball in the ABT prefish on frogs in the lillies!!.....remind me to take you to our spot on the pioneer at Marion this year for a quick sooty session during the ABT....bring a bass rod....you will have a ball

Cheers Steve

[BR65]

Surface barra, happy days!

[Steve B]

I didnt realise that was caught on surface Brian!!!

Thats still the best barra photo of the year IMO.:D

[BR65]

cheers mate, 2nd barra on surface, not a big fish, but I was "stoked" to say the least! Thanks Chris for the pic, still my fav.
Enticer was a gold tango with up-graded hooks and splits, up at No Secret Point. The girls were on the game, missed a couple on shallow divers and switched to the surface for some frustrating boils behind the pause, finally conned one into committing, most fun you can have with ya pants on I reckon!
Coupla other pics that tell the story..........

[NAGG]

Surface barra, happy days!

special capture that one Brian ...... I was glad to be there to photograph it -SWEET AS :P

Chris

[BR65]

yup sweet as mate, thanks for the pics, down side of fishing solo is those "specials" are often reduced to a pic of a fish on the mat, and dont do justice to the moment!
Hopefully those pics inspire a few more to plop, fizz, stutter and pause a surface presenatation next trip, I know Im fired up............

[leelee]

I was glad to be there to photograph it

talking about photos you need to send me some Chris from the muster

Just email them its probably easier.

Cheers

Lee

[BLOOEY]

Hell yes thats what it's all about brian.I can see the adrenallin in you in those shots. Love it. Great shots nagg. Ben

[Dick Pasfield]

How many actually try it , how long do you persevere , do you use it at particular times of day / night , light levels , particular locations or are there other influences that will have you diving for a surface lure ( bait activity , boofing , insect activity , weather conditions) The technique is like all others, there’s a ‘right’ place and time and a ‘wrong’ place and time. I’d say however the window is narrower for surface lures, hence the lack of success experienced by many. Additionally the bugbear of poor hookup rates that plenty of people tend to get including myself makes for a limited success rate. The only consolation is staring at the hole in the water they leave and wondering what might have been.

I do most of my surface lure work of a night but only because I tend to fish that time more often. I’ve caught plenty of fish during the day but agree that with the sun high in the sky the results seem to drop. Having said that timing is not about a particular predetermined time of day (i.e. sunset or sunrise) it’s more about timing it with what’s happening on the water both from an ‘environment condition’ and fish point of view. An example that illustrates this was barra in a tank at the local show, they responded to minnows and plastics most of the day but not to a popper. The fish just hung around a bit of a snag anchored to the bottom. At one point the fish stared to move, on queue the lure chucker put on a popper and the fish went ballistic for about five minutes then settled down around the timber again and ignored the popper for the rest of the day. The only difference I could spot was the sun moving from behind the tree canopies and directly shining into the tank for a short time.

Position is also pretty important, not pulled a barra off the surface in deep water but there’s always a first time I guess. There’s one place I fish exclusively with a surface lure, the river there is too shallow for a boat and the bottom is heavily dissected sandstone bedrock. Fish will sit within the incisions either waiting or just idling away the time. Get a lure within striking range and often the fish can’t resist. Some people work the area quickly and miss the fish but you have to get the lure to cross right on their nose. For as long as they stay down in the cover the fish only have a limited amount of vision and movement so working the area methodically (which takes time) is the key ingredient in that case.

Styling the retrieve to suit the conditions can be a bit of a challenge, bait fish can be pretty active on the surface at different times but I’d wager a single fish does not exhibit any sort of pattern predictable to a predator for any length of time. Making a retrieve appear to be a fish being sneaky or injured without scaring half the river to death is another key. Both flowing rivers and wind chop will significantly impact and presentations need to be able to work with those conditions.

One aspect of a lot of surface lures is they lack any sort of wobble or wiggle when you just crank them. Lure motion is very much in the hands of the user and this makes rods and reel more a critical component of the presentation. I use a shorter and stiffer rod because I have my best success just twitching the lure.

Like any lure and type of presentation, if you’re confident with what you’re doing you’ll make your own luck just by persevering.

One last thing I will say about surface lures is that crocs love them::).


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/1-39.jpg




http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/2-21.jpg




http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/3-19.jpg




http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/4-14.jpg




http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/5-9.jpg

[Apollo]

Gee Dick

That last croc can have the lure

Steve

[scottym]

Ba ha ha ha. Dick, that last photo is a beauty.

[Dick Pasfield]

Ba ha ha ha. Dick, that last photo is a beauty.

Yes not bad but demonstrates the versatility of surface lures as a 'lure'.

[Steve B]

Awesome insight and info Dick. Thanks for the valuble tips. No worries about chaffing thru the leader on that last pic!!!!:D

Like you, I prefer the shorter, stiffer rods for working surface too...more connection and feel with the lure....I also find it hard not to 'strike' on the initial hit!!!....I find you just let the fish hit and roll on it...let it hook itself....and away you go!!!

Thanks again mate.

Steve

[A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE]

Many missed strikes on surface lures occur because we ask too much of the barra to fulfil our desire. Barra are not athletic gymnasts with the agility of a working dog. They have simple feed tactics. We tempt them with the movemnet, but anglers often wreck the next step by offering lure presentation that doesn't fit the fish's requirements. Lure choice that is too buoyant, or movement that is wayward can also hinder the result. On dawn charters in fair weather, surface lures are the first call. Great fish can result if lures are tuned to the water condition, technique is fine tuned, and slowed within reason. A household cat may pounce on the lure the barra misses, but not the reverse.

[Dick Pasfield]

Agree with those comments Steve and JM regarding hook up issues. It can be difficult to know when a fish will strike at times and you can be responsible for the miss. Having said that you can make up for that initial miss by letting the lure sit for about as long as it takes to roll a smoke before giving it a twitch again.

Buoyancy is an interesting one, I know that people like to see the back end of the lure hanging down but how many free swimming popeyes or other mullet types do you see swimming at a 45 degree angle? I reckon the lure can sit flat on the surface, just not riding high.

As for a barra not having the agility of a working dog. Dead right there: note the working dog in action here;D::)

http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/1-60.jpg


ps shallow water no crocs

[NAGG]

talking about photos you need to send me some Chris from the muster

Just email them its probably easier.

Cheers

Lee

Nah bugger it ...... you get the disc ( I've already burnt it ;) ) - just need to send it

Chris

[leelee]

Nah bugger it ...... you get the disc ( I've already burnt it ;) ) - just need to send it

Chris

Thanks mate.

I will just treat it like topwater barra. Once day it will happen out of the blue:P :P when i least expect it:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Cheers

Lee

[hairypunt]

Gday,
Last year hardb8 and i fished kinchent for a week.
We started the first session at sunrise we could not resist the oppurtunity to catch a barra or sooty on surface, so on went the top waters. We went for about an hour with little success, then all hell broke loose with topwater strikes coming thick and fast from both barra and sootys.


My thoughts on fishing topwaters is that they will work any time of the day, its all about area. At kinchent we fished areas that had 6/8ft of water that was made up of 80% percent weed with only 2/3 ft of water over the top of the weed beds, witch produced strikes even in the middle of the day.

I'm a big fan of walk the dog topwaters my favs for barra are tiemco riding peppers, giant dog x's and jackall water mocassins.

I like a rod between 6'0 and 6'6 with a fast taper with a light enough tip to cast light baits and allow the fish to turn once it has inhailed the bait. Ive found this helps with the hook up rate.

With the retreive i like to cast, let the water settle and then start a constant retreive, i work my topwaters quite fast, if i get a short strike then i pause it for a while give it a few tiny little twitches then continue the retreive.

Ive had success using these techniques in other barra dams,and also on bass,toga and cod.

Imo theres not a more exciting way to catch a fish, the thrill of watching the water explode behind a lure is something i could never tire of.

Cheers Kyle

Ps hardb8 and i are going back to kinchent for round 2, just two weeks, i cant wait.

[NAGG]

Gday,
Last year hardb8 and i fished kinchent for a week.
We started the first session at sunrise we could not resist the oppurtunity to catch a barra or sooty on surface, so on went the top waters. We went for about an hour with little success, then all hell broke loose with topwater strikes coming thick and fast from both barra and sootys.


My thoughts on fishing topwaters is that they will work any time of the day, its all about area. At kinchent we fished areas that had 6/8ft of water that was made up of 80% percent weed with only 2/3 ft of water over the top of the weed beds, witch produced strikes even in the middle of the day.

I'm a big fan of walk the dog topwaters my favs for barra are tiemco riding peppers, giant dog x's and jackall water mocassins.

I like a rod between 6'0 and 6'6 with a fast taper with a light enough tip to cast light baits and allow the fish to turn once it has inhailed the bait. Ive found this helps with the hook up rate.

With the retreive i like to cast, let the water settle and then start a constant retreive, i work my topwaters quite fast, if i get a short strike then i pause it for a while give it a few tiny little twitches then continue the retreive.

Ive had success using these techniques in other barra dams,and also on bass,toga and cod.

Imo theres not a more exciting way to catch a fish, the thrill of watching the water explode behind a lure is something i could never tire of.

Cheers Kyle

Ps hardb8 and i are going back to kinchent for round 2, just two weeks, i cant wait.

Thanks Kyle

Kinchant is one dam where you can have consistent fishing using top water ( the dam is renown for its topwater bite) - with its Clear water, vast weed beds & open pockets / laneways within those weedbeds - the fish just lie in there ( we would drift over the top of meter plus barra just a few feet below the boat - it was amazing) ...... I'm hoping to have a fish there again during the ABT tour :P

And you are right ..... It is the most exciting way to catch fish ( specially barra)

Chris