wat a knob head

[RAT-KING]

Wat a knob head i snuck out offshore in my 4.1 with my 40hp merc 2stroke.

got out to the reefs we were planning on fishing at wen the engine stalled it started again soon after and back on the way i we had a troll, we were doing around 12ks, wen we brang the lines in and could only get 15 ks at full throttle, wen she usually does 45+, got back to the ramp lifted the motor to find i left the ear muffs on the whole trip :( (i think i have blewn up my engine ive only had it for 3mths) Wat a knob head! does anybody know if its possible that i havent killed my engine? it was still pissing the whole time!
all info is appreciated
Cheers Simon

[FNQCairns]

Pull the plugs and inspect them for anything improper, then head down to your nearest auto parts place and buy a compression tester ($30)then test it.

Possibility it is still ok, trolling no problem as water will get sucked through the hose hole in enough volume, the rest....how come the alarm or the auto spark retard didn't cut in, or did it??

The tests above will tell 90%.

Without water these engines get hot enough to start fires, burn away paint (worth looking for discolouration) and melt aluminium.

yep your an idiot but not the first, at least you didnt almost blow the whole boat up like me a few weeks ago.

PS your lucky it was not 4st engine the honeycomb of an aluminium head they have makes little mistakes ultra costly.

cheers fnq

[Teabag73]

Bugger..........

[darkside]

well , although little consolation you are not first and you certainly won't be the last. With any luck you will get out of it with a good lesson and hurt pride.!

And while on the subject of knob heads, the family on their way to Moreton Island today in the fairly new Mustang Cruiser are absolute "dropkicks", they threw 2 empty twisty packets and a iced breaker milk carton overboard, i stopped to clean up the crap they had discarded but what sort of fvckwits are they !!!!!!

Apart from that it was a nice day !!!

[Luc]

The same sort of Fwiths who throw cigarette buts out of their car window.

Luc

[Noelm]

it is certainly possible that you did not kill the engine, I would reckon the muffs would have slid back and exposed the water pickup points as soon as you moved along, you said the tell tale was working all the time! do the things mentioned, and give it another run and see how it goes.

[SeaHunt]

Could be OK, depending on the motor, if it is fairly new you could be lucky.
My Merc has a feature which restricts engine revs once it gets hot so you cannot cook it, limits it to 3000 revs above a certain temp and then stops completely if it gets hotter.
Pissing is a good sign, it means some water was getting through.

Take if for a run now (without the muffs) ::) and see how it goes.

[Roughasguts]

Probably got a tad hot and went in to limp mode! the reduced power setting.

Take it out again and see what it does with out the muffs this time, probably fine I suspect.

[cormorant]

If it was in run in with extra oil and quality oil it would have helped as well

You are not the only person who I have heard of who has done that - bugger

Only smiling as I haven't done it ..............................................yet but I'll add it on my list eventually.



Would have the water pump impeller checked as well as it may have run dry on the higher throttle settings. I wouldn't run it hard till you have done that as as the minute you have arunner and that could change if there is old damage.

[Roughasguts]

If it was in run in with extra oil and quality oil it would have helped as well

You are not the only person who I have heard of who has done that - bugger

Only smiling as I haven't done it ..............................................yet but I'll add it on my list eventually.



Would have the water pump impeller checked as well as it may have run dry on the higher throttle settings. I wouldn't run it hard till you have done that as as the minute you have arunner and that could change if there is old damage.




Yup some even leave the trailer on...................

But I suspect thats B/S.

[kokomo]

I agree with the above. it is likley that the engine automatically shut its self down or ran on set a rev limiter..

ill gamble its sweet :)

good luck

[Swindells]

Oops.... Hope it all works out ok.

[Kleyny]

wow thats not good.

I hope everytihng is sweet for your sake RK.

So tell me lads from what year does the merc have an auto shut down?

neil

[BaitThrower]

How the heck do muffs stay on at full speed on the way out?

[bigjimg]

If they are put on from the front of the leg they can't come off.I flush mine that way but i remove mine when i am finished.Don't stress over it too much Rat King just follow the impella suggestion and replace it and have your 20hr service early if you havn't already.Hows this one years ago launching the tinny at Wello i was trying to get the boat to roll off the trailer and pushing and shoving and the bloody thing would not go.Then i went and took off the tie down strap.How embarrasing.But i got over it.Jim

[White Pointer]

it is certainly possible that you did not kill the engine, I would reckon the muffs would have slid back and exposed the water pickup points as soon as you moved along, you said the tell tale was working all the time! do the things mentioned, and give it another run and see how it goes.

G'day,

Ditto that but I suggest that plug inspection and a run in your selling dealer's tank to make sure impeller is OK, thermostat is working to correct temperatures and CDi ignition hasn't cooked would be money well spent - to be on the safe side.

Mercury must make good muffs. I battle to keep mine on just running water into them. With what you did I reckon mine would have ripped through the big meat slicer real quick.

Regards,

White Pointer

[finga]

I reckon it must be time for an upgrade as yours is stuffed.
I'll buy your old motor for scrap if you like ;)

Na matey just kidding.
Just get the impellor and cooling system checked and take it from there.
She should be right :)

[joey_1987]

What model merc 40hp do you have? Two are around-the 'lightning XR' and the standard, the difference being the lightning XR is made by tohatsu in Japan, the other is made in USA by Mercury. The reason i ask is because the XR (along with most Tohatsu's) has a water intake below the anti-cav plate as well as the two on the skeg, so even if the two on the side are blocked (usually by rubbish or in your case, muffs) then the other intake will still pick up water. They designed them this way in case of plastic bags etc. Chances are if it had a good tell tale then no serious damage was done, it may have tripped some sensors which reduced revs or the drag of the muffs could've slowed you down.
Hope it's alright in an case :)

[RAT-KING]

Hey guys thanks for the info but it seems my motor is f*&ked!!! i tried 2 start it 2nite, and the whole engine was seized! oh well looks like its time 2 give the fishing a rest 4 a while and go back 2 olf!
Cheers Simon

[Braddles]

Oh dear God - thats not good mate.

Might be getting it looked at though - as something doesnt add up.

You say you went out to the reefs, trolled once there, then noticed it when you powered up to come in.. If the engine was running well out TO the reef, I would think it is a remote possibility that the muffs would have posed a problem only on the wat home, and as soon as you tried to use some throttle.. Crimp the hose when your flushing the engine - it doesnt take much reduction in flow to stop the tell tale ('pissing') from becoming a weak dribble... so if there was any inlet obstruction secondary to the muffs being in place, I suggest it would have been evident from the outset of your trip..

Maybe your muffs snagged some debris while at sea that would have ordinarily not caught on the skeg.

I would get a decent, honest marine mechanic to have a look at it for you...

Just my opinion though of course.

I hope you get out of it at minimal cost mate.

Is the engine old??? Would going down the warranty path be an option if the engine was a late model?? Maybe worth exploring if its new(ish)..

Best of luck,

Kind regards,

Brad.

[Angla]

I did the same thing to a 115 evinrude and eventually got it all the way to Flinders and back to Bribie at around 13 knotts because the alarm would go if I pushed it any harder. This had me totally frustrated until I got back to the ramp and spotted the earmuffs still on the motor. All was fine and no damage done at all.
It appeared to be getting enough water through the single hose inlet to not wreck anything.

Cheers
Chris

[Noelm]

don't think you will fare too well with a warranty claim when you left the muffs on and seized it! hardly a manufacturing fault by any stretch of the imagination, still you say it is stuffed now, can't hurt to at least have a look yourself, or sell it to me as is let me take my chances!

[cormorant]

I'm interested as well to see if it is the pistons seized in the bore or the crank is cactus from a overheat and water getting in.

You sure the heat just hasn't melted some electrics and that is why it is not turning over or won't it turn over by turning the flywheel or pull starter?

[RAT-KING]

I'm interested as well to see if it is the pistons seized in the bore or the crank is cactus from a overheat and water getting in.

You sure the heat just hasn't melted some electrics and that is why it is not turning over or won't it turn over by turning the flywheel or pull starter?


Yeah thanks guys im going 2 take it in wen i get a chance!
im no mechanic but it seems 2 b seized at the pull starter!
well ill see how it goes at the shop, hopefully its not going 2 cost me more than its worth!

[Black_Rat]

Wat a knob head i snuck out offshore in my 4.1 with my 40hp merc 2stroke.

got out to the reefs we were planning on fishing at wen the engine stalled it started again soon after and back on the way i we had a troll, we were doing around 12ks, wen we brang the lines in and could only get 15 ks at full throttle, wen she usually does 45+, got back to the ramp lifted the motor to find i left the ear muffs on the whole trip :( (i think i have blewn up my engine ive only had it for 3mths) Wat a knob head! does anybody know if its possible that i havent killed my engine? it was still pissing the whole time!
all info is appreciated
Cheers Simon

It happens, I've done that before ::)

Left the muffs on a 90 merc 2stroke leaving Cabbage Tree ramp heading for the Pin. Got about 300m from the ramp and heard a 'Beeeeeeeeeeeeep' for a few seconds. Crap, low oil alarm ??? Na put oil in before I left ! Slow down, motor shutters, what the ?? Turned motor off checked oil, OK. Opps the muffs !! lucky for me they somehow they fell off without doing any damage to the prop ::) I used to put the muffs on from the prop side of the motor to flush it.

Mate get a marine mechanic to check things out, it's a 2 stoke and it takes a bit to kill them.

Damo

[Roughasguts]

don't think you will fare too well with a warranty claim when you left the muffs on and seized it! hardly a manufacturing fault by any stretch of the imagination, still you say it is stuffed now, can't hurt to at least have a look yourself, or sell it to me as is let me take my chances!

What muffs !!!!!!! seemed to seize up just trolling.;)

[Fish Lips]

Would something like this be covered by your insurance?

Hope it turns out ok for you.

cheers:)

[Stacer 5.0]

I put my boat in at the ramp a couple months ago and told the missus to go park the car and i would pick her up on the pontoon. Got the boat started, but noticed water slowly filling the arse end of the boat...yep forgot the bungs...got her to shore quickly and when i went to put the bungs in I noticed the ear muffs still on...luckily for me i left the bungs out, you dont hear that often. After boating for 20 years without the slightest hiccup I was more than shocked at my lack of pre-launch inspection. It happens to us all at sometime. The wife had a great day takin the piss outta me....but thats fair enough I suppose !!

[GBC]

If the pride and joy is insured it will definitely be worth the phone call - that's what it's for.

[crab man]

Very unlucky bro ... shit happens hope it works out for ya at low low cost :) i couldnt even write the amount of silly things ive done
Cheers Crig

[bigjimg]

Given the time frame here on ratkings last post it may be pointless but here goes.Did you flush the motor when you got back on that day and if so how did it go and also on the seize issue is the motor in gear and you are trying to start it??It may be that the motor is damaged and you may disregard the questions.Anyhoo hope you get some joy if you are insured.Jim

[dreemon]

I have driven off with the muffs on too, thought it was the gear box packing it in, idled it back to the ramp and saw the mangled muffs in the water just after it fell off, I felt like you except only damaged the alloy prop. 4.1 tinny with 40 hp,
hope you can get it going again

[billfisher]

I would have thought it would be covered by insurance. Although it was negligence on your part that is how most accidents come about and they are still claimable.

[jason p]

lol never heard of leaving muffs on::) maybee a lesson for us all. i do hope you havent done any damage. good heading;)

jp

[ThePinkPanther]

Anybody who goes offshore in a 4.1 metre tinnie should have his licence whipped off him in my opinion!

[jason p]

Anybody who goes offshore in a 4.1 metre tinnie should have his licence whipped off him in my opinion!

why is that mate:-/ maybe he is an exceptional skipper or maybre not, if you r comfortable in your ability to skipper a boat in the conditions at hand and use your brain alittle then i cant see why not.
:)
jp

[finding_time]

Before i comment on your post TPP i would like to know your definition of OFFSHORE and of a TINNIE.

[ThePinkPanther]

Umm, I guess if it's not SMOOTH or PARTIALLY SMOOTH then it has to be OFFSHORE and "reefs" tends to make me believe the post was obviously meaning what we all call offshore. If around Moreton Bay that would be immediately east of Moreton and Stradbroke islands I guess?

TINNIE? Hmmmm, I could be in trouble on this one but I don't think it matters what it is made of as 4.1 is too small to SAFELY venture offshore anyway.

Anybody can access excellent advice from "those who know" to confirm what I said is true!

Just call one or all of the following this coming weekend:

VMR Bribie Island 3408 7596
AVCG Redcliffe 3203 5522
VMR Brisbane 3269 8888
AVCG Manly 3396 5911
VMR Raby Bay 3821 2244
VMR North Stradbroke 3409 9338

Ask to speak to an "experienced offshore Skipper", not necessarily the guy who answers the phone. Simply say that you have a 4.1 metre "boat" with a 40 hp outboard and you would like an opinion on whether it can be considered a safe vessel to take offshore irrespective of weather, skippers skills, experience or whatever.

I will guarantee you here and now that you will not get one single opinion in the affirmative!

Assuming you disagree with my opinion and are getting ready to sledge me ......... if you DON'T make a few of the suggested calls, then you aren't willing or ready to hear it straight out of the mouths of VMR/AVCG Skippers who have collectively spent many, many years doing rescue work in and about all sorts of waters and on every imaginable type of boat.

And the final say (maybe) could come from Brisbane Water Police on 3895 0333

[finding_time]

Well how about all the guys in tinnies that fish the Blinker of mooloolaba , now i guess that's about 7nm from the bar and on a good day there quite safe provided the boat has the right safety gear and radios! What about all the boats that fish off the goldy and palmy lots of them are tinnies? I have a Mate who an ex member on here who chases blue Marlin 30nm due east of point lookout, he's in a 4m Ocean cylinder with a 60 yami 4 stroke, is that a tinnie?? I know if the wheather got really rough it would be very uncomfortable in that boat but there are plenty of so called offshore rigs much larger than that boat which i would get out of before i got out of the little OC! As mentioned before i think experience of the skipper is far more important than boat lenght!!!

Ian

[finding_time]

Ask to speak to an "experienced offshore Skipper", not necessarily the guy who answers the phone. Simply say that you have a 4.1 metre "boat" with a 40 hp outboard and you would like an opinion on whether it can be considered a safe vessel to take offshore irrespective of weather, skippers skills, experience or whatever.

I will guarantee you here and now that you will not get one single opinion in the affirmative!



TPP

Mate i'm not sledging you i just think it's to broard a statement!;) Making any phone calls to the above would result in exactally the response you predicted! Even if they personally thought it would be fine they would never tell you this, it's called covering your arse and they would never give advice that might come back to bite them!! The same goes with asking for advice for crossing bars, most ( there area some exceptions Tincan bay for eg) will not give you bearings to cross the bars there advice is that if you cant work it out you shouldn't be crossing, they dont want you getting in trouble on there advice!! This is very annoying sometimes, like when i had to make a stopover at Noosa unexpectantly i arrived in laguna just as the sun was setting and couldn't see the channel because of the sun, i asked for a bearing and they wouldn't supply it::) ::) ::) ::) there advice " just anchor up in the bay until morning when you would be able to see the channel quite clearly" Gees thanks for the help fellas i said but i got a sick crew member onboard and i'm comming in, it looks like the channel is at 245 degrees from the nth end but the sun on the water is making it hard!! After 3 minutes they confirmed that i was right, ::) ::) ::) ::) Yep they went right! out on a limb!

I reckon if i rang up any VMR and asked if it was ok to go offshore in any lenght of boat they would advise against it because of the fact that i had to ask!! i'm not having a go at these poeple , they do a fantastic job , it's just the way the world is going, thanks to the lawers!!

ian

Ps. Over the years i have heard plenty of 3.9 and 4.1 tinnies log on with the coastguard at Mooloolaba saying that they were going outside to fish and i haven't heard the coastguard advise them against it say there boat way to small, is this the same thing?

[bushbeachboy]

The Titanic was a tinny too!!!! Hehe

[ThePinkPanther]

That's OK Mate, no offence this end but I can assure you that you are way way down the wrong track when you say these units will only cover their asses etc. etc. when giving advice to Boaties. 110% incorrect!

I was the Commodore of VMR Victoria Point for eight years, did 292 rescues over that time, have logged some 6,000 hours in all sorts of boats and can speak for all the volunteer marine rescue units in saying that any advice given is always with safety being paramount! And even with that experience under my belt there are plenty of Ausfish members who would run rings around me in boating.

I've dragged back many an "experienced" skipper who simply got into trouble when the unexpected occurred or when the wheels fell off.

It just gets down to who is prepared to take the risks and who isn't!

Just because others do it and get away with it doesn't mean a thing. I've logged 196 South Passage Bar crossings with my initial training being done in the company of the venerable John Palermo (Prime Mover out of Manly) who could cross the bar safely on a body board but there is no way you would catch him out in our example of a 4.1 metre boat!

Anyhow, horses for courses at days's end .............. appreciate your inputs!

[jason p]

bravo applause... you BOTH have very good points for anyone who skippers a small vesell, to take note of and thank you both for this usfull, interesting and amusing debate. as most know it can get ugly out there with in minuets

:) jp

[ozscott]

I know blokes who go off goldy and palm bean in open 14foot tinny's - open not ocean cylinders etc and I reckon they are mad....but then again I am very prudent and I dont much around even in my Vagabond.

Cheers

[dreemon]

I learned my most valuable lessons crossing tally bar to get to palmy reef in my 4.1 with a 40hp, the reef's not even 10 mins fr the bar on a good day , and had plenty of good days and a few crossings I'll remember forever.

[385EXPLORER]

I surprised it took so long for someone to have a chop at ol mate for going "offshore" in a 4m.