a little problem with an outboard motor

[gazza2006au]

my uncle brought a boat,motor,trailer package from ebay it was unregistered and it was sold as a project boat it needed a fair amount of work done now it had a 70hp old evinrude triumph and since the motor is from the early 70's the sticker with the engine number on the transom mount has fallen off (im assuming) and it looks like someone has smudged by accident 1 or 2 from memory of the engine numbers that are printed in the round silver stamp on the engines block my uncle brought this motor legally from ebay but the seller didnt drop in any papers i know this sound sus so now the motor is just sitting there being unused and he is thinking of selling it now im wondering is there anyway of proving weather this motor is stolen or not and if its even registerable?

cheers for any help guys

[Roughasguts]

Is there a welch plug on the motor? Eg: a water jacket plug if it has! then there be sometimes an engine number duplicated on that.

[gazza2006au]

yeah mate that number has 1 or 2 numbers smudged

[Roughasguts]

Sorry my bad!

[finga]

Keep all the contact details of the seller and ask the coppers about the numbers.
If it is stolen and noted they would do a search of the model and then of the numbers.
Chances are though they could not give two tosses for a motor that old.

I just went through the same saga with a lazer level I brought.
A mate said I got it too cheap and when I went to see if it was stolen (I couldn't sleep wondering about it) it turned out it went missing (actually it was left behind on a Friday and wasn't on the earth moving site on Monday) 2 years prior. End result I'm $2,000 poorer. :(

[Noelm]

it does sound more than just a bit suspect, like the engine number is missing in one place and smudged in another, but as mentioned, seeing as the motor is pretty old and probably not worth a lot, it should be OK, like you can't indentify it, so why would someone else? keep any receipts just for peace of mind.

[SeaHunt]

I doubt any self respecting crim would be bothered stealing anything that old.
The motor is only good for a museum piece, take it to the tip and stop worrying.

[finga]

I doubt any self respecting crim would be bothered stealing anything that old.
The motor is only good for a museum piece, take it to the tip and stop worrying.
So my 1961 Royal Scott should go to the scrapey then??

The old Envinrude is a fine old motor if they're looked after.
My dad has a 1971 25hp one that goes better then his 1992 one.

But your right about the crims...they wouldn't be bothered with it. :-/

[BM]

An engine of that vintage would not have had a serial number decal. It would have been a metal plate a little smaller than a postage stamp rivted (with dome head rivets) to the clamp bracket.

If this is missing and the serial number in the welch plug is defaced then you are almost guaranteed its a stolen engine.

However, as mentioned, its an oldy and worth very little and now that the identifying marks are gone then nobody can make a claim to that engine that can be proven.

Cheers

[gazza2006au]

yeah thats a good point so ill just assume it wont be able to be registered in nsw without a engine number?

[BM]

Just make up the missing digits......... The registration authority have no way to verify it. If they inspect it for the numbers at the time of registration then you may have a problem.

Does it need physical inspection by them?

[finga]

You might be able to get a number from the NSW police department.
When my dad and I did up the old 1 tonner it had no chassis number from when they chucked a new chassis under it when it was 18 months old.
We went and saw the NSW boys in blue, filled out a couple of forms, they came and inspected it and we told them the history of the old ute from new and jobs done (after they had smoko and ate the Sao's and tomato and cheese).
They issued a new number to us.

[gazza2006au]

yeah the boat will need to go for an hull VIN inspection as its out of rego im not sure if they check the motors ID? but i wanna do the right thing as i want a lergit package if this motor is stolen i dont want it on my boat or anything to do with it i just thought there might have been somewhere we can show proof of purchase and get it restamped as finga mentioned

[rooboy98]

I seriously reckon it would be worth checking the boat VIN number, Boat and trailer rego stickers (if any old ones are still on there) and also the trailer VIN. The whole rig could be hot, let alone just the motor.

Better safe than sorry, especially if it's a project boat and your about to put time/money into it.

Just cause its old won't mean anything if you get caught with any of it later on. They would probably seize the whole lot. Did your Uncle get a "Bill of sale" when he picked up the rig?

Cheers,
Roo.

[gazza2006au]

let me clear something up i have my boat my trailer and my uncle has hes boat,trailer and motor i want to buy the motor off of him (the motor being questioned in this thread) and put it on my boat the boat the 70 evinrude in question come off of my uncles boat that he has now registered so hes boat and trailer are fine there not stolen so its not a pinched package just the motor is in question ;D but u see when my uncle brought hes boat (also a project boat like mine is) it was unregistered so im not sure if the 70 evinrude was actually on it when it was last registered i have contacted the nsw waterways about a previous boat and they say they cannot give out information about serial numbers so i cant check my uncles motor that way

[BM]

I'm not suggesting that you are dodgy or your actions are dodgy, or that you should be dodgy!!! Just explaining the real mechanics if the situation!!!

Cheers

[BM]

Give me a call if you are concerned about the mechanisms mate. 0419 787 986. I am not here to help you be acting unlawfuly. Just trying to help you in your present situation to resolve the issues that need resolving.

IGNORE the alarmists....

[rooboy98]

Righto, well if thats the case then, without a full serial number it's gonna be pretty hard to track down the engine's history...good or bad. Thanks for clearing that up.

Cheers,
Roo.

[BM]

I seriously reckon it would be worth checking the boat VIN number, Boat and trailer rego stickers (if any old ones are still on there) and also the trailer VIN. The whole rig could be hot, let alone just the motor.

Better safe than sorry, especially if it's a project boat and your about to put time/money into it.

Just cause its old won't mean anything if you get caught with any of it later on. They would probably seize the whole lot. Did your Uncle get a "Bill of sale" when he picked up the rig?

Cheers,
Roo.

YES, of course, checking the relevant details is prudent and warranted. This does not even require discussion does it???????

A boat does not have a VIN. Vessels do, however, in some cases, have a HIN. Yes, this HIN "should" be recorded with your state authority but that is by no means whatsoever a given.

The trailer, "Ahhhhhhhh, yes!!!!", will SOMETIMES........ have a VIN. That VIN may be cross checked with the relevant transport department of each state.... Except.... their systems are not interlinked that well last time I checked.........

THE HIN (if fitted) on the hull (typically only on newer rigs) will give pos ID to those vessels also.

I hope by now it is becomming abundantly clear that rebirthing boats is "criminally easy"........

[gazza2006au]

yeah thats what i thought i think i might give the motor a pass just to be on the safe side i dont want to be investing money into an engine that could possabilly be taking off of me :'(

[Braddles]

On the flip side, even if it was old - if it was my engine - I would be keen to know what happened to it / where it was.

I would probably let you have it... if it were mine and it had been flogged... By now they would have replaced it I would think (or maybe it was an old pensioner and he had to give up boating!)...

But it sounds like it was, at some stage, maliciously deidentfied / boosted / rebirthed. Yes it is old, but fact is - who stole it is probably stealing new rigs too, and so by advising the boys in blue you think something may be dodgie - they may be able to trace the movement of this motor from its original owner / and nab someone in the process.

If they are not concerned, you can take peace in that you did the right thing, and can keep the motor.

Just my humble opinion.

[finga]

Was the number in the whelsh plug scratched out (ie screwdriver etc) or just wear rubs or corrosion??
That would be an indication of intent.
The little alloy plate mentioned usually fell off due to corrosion of the pins or plates and is very, very common.
You have nothing to lose talking to the coppers and lots to gain.

[gazza2006au]

sorry finga i didnt get a reply notification the number in the welsh plug is kinda like a scrape across the numbers on an angle like in the little picture i just drew it does look like someone might have just hooked up the chain and engine hoist with a shackle on the motor mount lifting point and as they have laid the engine on the ground the weight of the engine could have possably done the scratch thinking about it with the bolt that goes thru the shackle because the serial number is located right under the lifting point pretty silly design
im still thinking about buying this motor and im not able to source a new cylinder (for registration) in australia do u think the waterways (maritime) will let me register the engine with a USA cylinder serial number?
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y73/Gazza2005au/SERIAL.jpg