Wheel Bearings

[Brice]

Hi Everybody,

I am really hoping someone might be able to shed some light.

I seem to be constantly replacing wheel bearings, Yes I know you should always replace them at the same time but when you are only getting around 2 to 3 months and 50km out of them gets a bit costly. I have replaced three full sets in 18 months and one of them 3 times on top of that and two of the others 2 times each.

Does anybody have any theories or solutions. Am thinking I might replace all bearings, hubs, axles, wheels and tyres. However if that is not the problem then it will be a bit of a waste.

The boat is a 21' tinny that weighs bugger all.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Brice

[STUIE63]

what is happening to the old bearings
Stuie

[Roughasguts]

That's bad !!! why are you replacing rust ? grinding bearings ? are you replacing seals as well. what grease ? got bearing buddies? what bearings you putting in.

Mine are 8 years old and still good.

[Brice]

They are collapsing and disintegrating.

[STUIE63]

is there evidence of water or rust

[Brice]

Yeah replace everything and even make sure they are marine seals (made that mistake once:-) Umm Mobil Grease from memory or what ever looks the most suitable at the time. Yes Bearing buddies and have made similar mistakes as others with those in the past.

Thanks
Brice

[Brice]

Is there evidence of water or rust


No

[Roughasguts]

Tell us what and how you replace them!

How do you tighten them grease them Etc... you are greasing them aren't you? that be the only reason why they would fail in 50 k's unless the old hub is full off rusty bits of metal churning up the new bearings.

[STUIE63]

one other way is that the bores on the hubs are not concentric . but you should be able to feel it when the bearings are first set up
Stuie

[Mr__Bean]

Are you using boat trailer wheel bearing grease?

Others call it marine wheel bearing grease etc.

It doesn't break down as quick if it gets some water in there.

- Darren

[Brice]

Pull them apart completely and clean hubs and axle thoroughly.

Spend an hour swearing at the hubs trying to bash the races out and tapping in the new one with a piece of timber carefully.

Pack bearings fit with seal, place on axle, tighten nut, fit split pin, bolt on wheel check the wheel still spins yet is tightish. Fit bearing buddies and fill with grease.

check/tighten after 20 or so k's

I think that's it.

Cheers
Brice

[Roughasguts]

Think I would go to super cheap or Bias boating and get new gal hubs.
They have new bearings, seals, wheel studs and nuts including split pin.

Fill with marine grease, still use your bearing buddies, "Don't over fill" don't use marine seals, and make sure you have the right hub... Ford !!or Holden !! and double check the fit of the bearings on the axle stubs.

[STUIE63]

define tightish

[Roughasguts]

Are wheel should not be tight !!! tighten castle nut until bearings seat, then back off the castle nut so the wheel makes a slight knocking noise when you move the wheel from side to side when your Hands in the 9 oclock and 3 o clock position.
You can feel a slight loosness and a knock.

Sounds like your bearings are getting real hot real quick ! you got brakes??

[Brice]

Yeah sorry I do seat the bearings and then back it off. It does however sound like I do mine up tighter than you, I generally tighten until the movement is gone but the wheel still spins. I thought if they were getting to hot the grease would "run". This doesn't seem to be happening.

Yes I do have brakes.

Something I haven't mentioned is that the drive way is very steep and on a hill (if that makes sense). and it does get backed up the driveway. This isn't likely to cause it?

Thanks for all the help.

Brice

[sandbankmagnet]

Yeah, I agree with some others. Do you back the castle nut back a quarter or half turn after fitting snug?

[STUIE63]

I would try one more set of bearings but tighten up the way RAG described I think you might be over tightening them .then take them for a drive of approx 5 km then stop and put your hand on the hub it should be cool not hot .if it is cool then take for a drive of 20 or 30 km and test temp again .if it is still cool and your bearings fail again then replace hubs
Stuie

[cormorant]

As bearings get hot they expand slightly and takeup that slack. If they are too tight they simply seize and grind themselves to death in about 50km. Loosen them up and use only quality bearings and clean grease. Normal seals are fine as long as the surface they run on is OK and you check for water regularly.

Was your hub getting hot after a shotrt run if so that is the first sign of failure starting.

Also when you say you tap in the new cone/ race do you seat it all the way in or do you seat it by winding in the castle nut on the race?

If you seat it in all the way all is OK if you use the castle nut to seat it then you have already crushed and stuffed your bearing. We press ours in where possible.

[Roughasguts]

Yeah maybe too tight my castle nut after seating the bearing is only finger tight if that.

So tight bearing equal hot!! then brakes!! or dragging brakes !! equal a really bad situation for your bearings.

Do the castle nut up as I described, and then go for a short 1-2 k drive get out the car and put your hand on the wheel hubs they should be cold if there getting warm or Hot then theres still something wrong.

Warm hubs are normal after 10 or so K'm but filthy hot ones are not.

Good luck.

[Brice]

No I am definately tapping them all the way in. I didn't think they were getting hot but I will say that I was getting a little cautious about having them too loose so I may be over tightening. I have decided that I will replace all hubs again this time and have them pressed in to be sure everythong is spot on.

Thanks again everybody for your assistance.

Cheers
Brice

[Brice]

I will have a go at these things.

Thanks guys
Brice

[STUIE63]

Brice
let us know how you get on mate
Stuie

[trueblue]

too tight.........

A slightly tight bearing will fail quickly.

A loose one will run to Cairns from Brisbane

when holding the wheel at 9 oclock and 3 oclock, you must feel some free play when rocking it side to side. Not much, just some looseness as opposed to being tight, where there is no freeplay.

Mick

[Noelm]

OK lets go way way back, first off, forget Supercheap bearings, start with quality ones, so that can be eliminated, with quality grease, packed properly, now, is the boat on a dual axle trailer? if so, then we just may have a clue, you say you reverse up a steep drive, when you first enter the drive and the wheels hit the steep bit (especially if you have dual axle) all the load is transferred to one set of wheels, and it may well overlaod the bearings (this is only a perhaps mind you) and cause failure, can you check to see if the axle is bent in the middle, this will be a firm indicator of over loading!

[cormorant]

Hey Brice what area are you in and do you have a experienced mate who has done a few bearings who can come over and look over your shoulder ( beer provided of course as can't do it with a dry mouth)? . Someone who has done a few will pick up what is going on real fast and if you look at the threads on here you will pick up extra tips ( some good some bad especially about grease and hitting hardened surfaces)

below is a link from another site that has some pictures and basic process

http://www.planetnautique.com/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=134


In regards to pressing I have the faciility so I use it. Don't have to do it and you can tell if they are seated properly by the sound they make. If it has been a constant proplem and you think you have the bearing s in right you may have a stuffed hub with teh seating areas not parralell or not centered on both sides of teh hub. These can be easy or hard to diagnose depending on how out of line they are. Can result in uneven rotation to grabbing brearings and so on or can be barely noticeable.

Let us know how you go and ask away with any other questions or after reading a few bearing threads tell us anything you thing you are not doing right.

Can you describe what the bearings looked like when you removed them ? How did you dicover they were stuffed? Noise , feel, wobble etc
You are aware that there are different bearing sizes , ford , holden , landcruiser etc and most will only fit one type but I have seen some strange combinations of axels and hubs especially on imported trailers or home made jobs? Have seen repeated failures in people taking old bearing to shop and replacing like with like when it was originally incorrect to start with. Not always easy to spot.


Edit- Just how far does the castle nut go onto the shaft?

Take some photos next time you have it apart

[Noelm]

that's a thought, there is a lot of bearings that look very similar, but are not exaclty the same, could be some really odd happenings going on huh! maybe take off a complete hun, clean it up really good and take it to a bearing place to match up for a proper set (maybe)

[SgBFish]

I think some photos would help of the old bearings.

I would ring the trailer manufacturer and find out what bearings you should be using. You could have been putting the wrong ones in from the start.

Packing the bearing is also important and there are some good You tube videos that should how to do it with the palm technique.

Is it a duel axle a 21’ boat on a single axle may be too heavy for it and collapsing the bearings.

Scott

[T-REX]

Are you sure you have the right bearings as a set of beaings should last a hell of a lot longer than 50km. Sounds like it is time to get a mechanic to check them out and point you in the right direction. Coul be a good investment.

[Brice]

Hi Guys,

Thank you for all the input. Yes it is a dual and I must admit have been a little concered as it does transfer all the weight to 2 of the wheels and is under a lot of angle pressure. I do have the right bearings. I think I am over tightening I will have another go this weekend.

I will let you know how I go.

Thanks again
Brice

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Brice
Where are you located?

Mark

[oldboot]

Um.... this boat... how much does it weigh on trailer.........are you sure......have you put it over the scale recently if ever......once that is established.

( want to se a surprised look on a boat owner...... weigh his boat)

what bearings system in in your hubs, and how many axles do you have and if its duals is it a load sharing suspension.

if they are holden bearings.....the beraings them selves are rated about 1.5 tonne, per axle and the axles are generaly rated about 1tonne..... but some trailer manufacturers wont put anything over .75 tonne on holden bearings.
Standard Ford ( tapered) berings are rated a bit over 1.6 tonne per axle and the axles are generaly rated at about 1.5 tonne and some trailer manufacturers will go to a different bearing over about 1.2 tonnes.

Also some parts manufacturers advise to derate axles if the wheels are over 14" rims on the tapered bearings.


as for replacement trailer parts... there are better places to buy than supercheap or bias....a trailer parts wholesaler or supplier is a good place.

My favoarte trailer bits supplier will sell you cheapies or good japanese bearings

there is something very wrong if your bearings are colapseing in that short time.

Um is your axle straight, how are your tyres wearing.

cheers

[Why Not]

My father in law had issues with wheel bearing on the caravan. Kept burning them out. I found the axle was bent. I used a tape measure and using the tow ball connection as a reference point the axle was 15mm rearward. The poor thing was working is rear end off. So off with the axle, and he's now a happy camper.

Not packing a bearing correctly and getting the grease into the rollers will make them run dry quick. I've seen people smeer grease on the outside of the bearing and fill the hub up expecting the poor things to look after themselves. You must push the grease through and purge them well.

Why Not

[Noelm]

OK, dual axle, reversing up a steep drive is a sure way to over load a bearing, especially if you have slipper springs.

[trueblue]

I reverse my trailer up a steep drive, with a long bend in the middle, then screw is sideways to get into the shed - Dual Axle - no dramas. The wheels twist and flex, but no issues.

[thylacene]

A little bit of info on bearings

All bearings from a reputable supplier have a number printed on the side, the number represents critical dimensions, being part no, diameter and width.

If you measure your axle where the bearing mounts with a micrometer (the difference between metric bearings and imperial can be measured in thousands of an inch in some cases although unlikely for a boat trailer with the size, it could happen) and the inside diameter of the hub and go to a bearing specialist and have a look through the catalogue for the right size.

You can check for out of round by taking measurements at each compass point N NNE NE ENE etc.

As stated check the axle is straight using a stringline and blocks against the bearing seat surfaces, check at 200mm intervals across the axle, all measurements should be the same.

Invest in a bearing puller and use a press to fit bearing shells to hubs, use a soft wide faced drift if you need to tap on the inners, preferably thick wall copper pipe or even PVC against the vertical side of the bearing spreading the load evenly across the surface, never hit them with a hammer directly.

Take the time to pack the bearing properly forcing grease into the roller cage by placing a good "blob" in the palm of your hand and pressing the bearing cage against your palm and dragging it across your palm, do this several times rtating the bearing a little each time.

When tightening, do them up until you feel some resistance and then back the nut off half a turn (a bit each way to allow the split pin to be fitted is OK)

If previous seals have been subjected to heat, replace them. Use marine grease.

Run a short distance and check temp with hand by feeling the hub at the closest point to the centre but not the grease cap. If they are more than a couple of degrees warmer than the rims, they are likely still too tight.

Expecting the grease to melt in doesn't work, because by the time the bearing is generating heat, the hard facing has been ground off, the grease is then merely delaying the inevitable.

I tow almost 600K's return to go fishing, and have towed for over 4000 kms since we bought the boat in June (fitted new wheel bearings before we set off home when picked up). Wheels have been submerged 16 times in this period.

When towing any distance to the ramp, consider waiting 15 minutes or so before dunking the wheels, as they will be warmer than the water, the sudden drop in temperature creates a vacuum inside the hub that sucks in water, not much, but then it doesn't take much to cause corrosion if there is a dry metal surface.

All this said, I reckon I should be checking mine tomorrow as the weather down the coast is ordinary and I can't go fishing.

Cheers

Thy