30 Footer smashes into rocks at mouth of Brissy River

[Jurkyjj]

Hi Ausfishers,

I have just returned from an fish on the river, and witnessed the single handed most amazing thing that I have EVER witnessed.

A (approx) 30 FOOT LUXURY BOAT HAS JUST SMASHED INTO THE ROCK WALL AT THE FRONT OF THE BRISBANE RIVER!!:o

I had only just moved from the wharves where I was fishing to go for a run out to the mouth of the river an fish the rockwall. I got out there and two other boats were already there having a fish. This is when I turned around and saw this massive boat going at full noise towards the boat that was anchored ahead. He was absolutely, at what I felt was full throttle. He missed the boat that was anchored in front, BUT, ploughed straight into the rockwall. AT FULL NOISE!! BANG!!!!
The 30 footer was completely and utterly high and dry. Not an ounce of water around the boat. It would have to be the most sickening sound that you could imagine! Fibreglass on rock. CRUNCH!!

I honestly thought it didn't happen. It was like being in a movie. It was absolutely the most amazing thing that I can recall in my life time.
The boat in front of me motored in close to see if everyone was alright. About four people that I saw got out and sat down in complete shock. Probably just as much as me!!

The water police turned up within about 5 - 7 minutes, as well as what I thought was the Port Authorities in their four wheel drives on the land. They were like ants, they were everywhere. There were 2 police boats as well as two PA vehicles at the scene in the early stages.
I am unsure if the people on the boat were injured, but, the police asked people to clear out.
I headed off in total amazement.
I reckon this will be on the news in the morning for sure.
I wanted to take some pics to post up here on the site, but, thought it best that I didn't, seeing as though the police were there and all. Might have landed myself in some trouble.
Funny thing was, they didn't ask whether I saw the incident or not...they just asked me to clear off.

Cheers, Jason.


P.S. only got two small squire that I didn't even bother keeping!!

[lippa]

i can understand how sureal it is, i wittnessed, and went to the aid of a roll over accident on the jinker track a few days ago. sickning noise allright.

[hooknose]

Jesus Jase, what a spin, I would have took some photos for sure, bugger the coppers !!, you gotta wonder where thier brains are stowed, pretty vague to do something like that(one wonders what they were up to when they should have been keeping an eye on where they were going) , guess it will come out in the wash, should be interesting !!

ps more importantly, did you get onto any fish ?

[chief]

WOW mate what time was that ? There was enough tension over that US carrier leaving port this morning without that happening. Fingers crossed evryone was OK

[blacksunday]

hmmmmmmmm i bet old mate who was anchored uped shit himslef seeing a rig like that coming right for him.was it a newer boat? nice and shiny? :(

[Jurkyjj]

Jesus Jase, what a spin, I would have took some photos for sure, bugger the coppers !!, you gotta wonder where thier brains are stowed, pretty vague to do something like that(one wonders what they were up to when they should have been keeping an eye on where they were going) , guess it will come out in the wash, should be interesting !!

ps more importantly, did you get onto any fish ?

Hooknose,

I have a sneaking suspicion that he quite possibly might have been on auto-pilot!!!
He didn't make any last minute moves or avoidance!
My first thoughts was that they might have been drinking, but, talking with the other boat that was out there, we both noticed that they didn't turn the boat at the last minute.

I didn't want to take any photos at the beginning as I was worried for the safety of all on board, but, after the coppers came, I couldn't get close enough to take a decent shot.

Cheers, Jason.

[Jurkyjj]

WOW mate what time was that ? There was enough tension over that US carrier leaving port this morning without that happening. Fingers crossed evryone was OK

Chief,

This was at roughly 6:30pm.
I was trying the spot where you suggested, before heading up to the mouth and then the rockwall around the corner when it happened.
I didn't stay long enough until the ambo's turned up, but, there were plenty of cars and police heading up there through the Port whilst cars were coming off carriers. It was just insane.

Cheers, Jason.

P.S. Chief, I didn't do any good where you suggested. Different stage of the tide though.

[Jurkyjj]

hmmmmmmmm i bet old mate who was anchored uped shit himslef seeing a rig like that coming right for him.was it a newer boat? nice and shiny? :(

Mate it was a new boat.
Looked like easily a $500,000 boat.
With a small tendor on the back.
Anyone for spare parts now.

[Jurkyjj]

ps more importantly, did you get onto any fish ?

Hooknose,

I only got onto a couple of undersize squire. I tried everything from SP to a couple of herring that I cast for in the creek to pillies and could not raise a scale.
I have never ventured up the river for no return and last night was the first.

I guess it doesn't help when you spend more than half the time that you are fishing watching a boat crash;D;D
Only really fished for probably 3 hours. The rest was spent watching the crash and the aftermath.

Cheers, Jason.

[Jurkyjj]

i can understand how sureal it is, i wittnessed, and went to the aid of a roll over accident on the jinker track a few days ago. sickning noise allright.

Yes mate, that noise will stay with me for quite some time.
Certainly sickening.

Cheers, Jason.

[Wahoo]

maybe being a new boat something went wrong with fli by wire or something like that, has happened twice in the last year that i know about

[Chimo]

Hey Wahoo,

They still need to develop better nose up, wheels up and general flight characteristics with the fly by wire stuff.

Theres still a lot to be said for cable and the like esp when someone turns on the microwave to make a cup of soup and ................. Well you get the gist

Cheers
Chimo

[SatNav]

1. Would this be the same or similar rock wall as was evidenced in the recent coronial enquiry of a similar incident several years ago?

2. If so then the timeliness of third party digital chart updates or the use of outdated digital charts may now get even closer scrutiny?

[Jurkyjj]

1. Would this be the same or similar rock wall as was evidenced in the recent coronial enquiry of a similar incident several years ago?

2. If so then the timeliness of third party digital chart updates or the use of outdated digital charts may now get even closer scrutiny?


SATNAV,

Don't know if there has been another incident on the rockwall, but, this was at the front of the rockwall about 100m around from the mouth.
There is a BIG sign on the wall about 30 metres away from where the boat ended up on the rocks.

Sorry I can't help further.

Jason.

[oldboot]

It just goes to reinforce that GPS products ARE only an, "AID to navigation" , not a substitute for keeping a propper lookout and proper navigation and seamanship.

cheers

[trueblue]

on the news this morning they said it was a 40 foot Mustang, and kids had broken bones etc.

my first thought was if it was a similar accident to the previous fatality.

It does raise the question lots of lighting needs to be installed on that wall. It would make sense to do so, and maybe now they will rethink the previous opinion that lighting was unnecessary.

Mick

[SatNav]

1. Lighting (lack of same) is probably not the main contributuing factor of this or the previous incident.

2. The coronial enquiry that was held two weeks ago with regard a similar incident several years ago concluded there appeared to be an issue with timely chart updates and improper use of GPS

[trueblue]

one aspect was that the previous collision was 'blindly' following an outdated gps chartplotter chart, that didn't have the new wall marked.

the other issue stated by the driver was that he could not see the wall, and had no visual indication that he was heading for a collision.

[Hornet Rider]

[quote=Jurkyjj;1053525]Hi Ausfishers,

A (approx) 30 FOOT LUXURY BOAT HAS JUST SMASHED INTO THE ROCK WALL AT THE FRONT OF THE BRISBANE RIVER!!:o

I am unsure if the people on the boat were injured, but, the police asked people to clear out.
I headed off in total amazement.

I wanted to take some pics to post up here on the site, but, thought it best that I didn't, seeing as though the police were there and all. Might have landed myself in some trouble.
Funny thing was, they didn't ask whether I saw the incident or not...they just asked me to clear off.

Cheers, Jason.

Jason,

I appreciate your position, and this is not a fault finding comment on your actions, nor is it an attempt to show disrespect to the Qld Police, but you would have been completely correct to say to the Police person who told you to clear off something like - thank you but no, I'm a witness, when you get the opportunity I want your name & Police number and I'll standby out of the way until give me your details. I have a great respect for Police, I know a lot of them and have a number as friends but there is always room for improvement in any process, and for a witness to be told to clear off before their details, as least, are recoreded by the attending Police, then the initial on-scene process has been flawed. Having said that, it's amazing how inaccurate a witness report can be, and sometimes how irrelevant they are in the investigation process, but you should not have been told to clear off before Police took your details.

Good to hear that no one was killed, disturbing to hear that some on-board (children?) suffered fractures.

cheers, HR

[Jeremy]

I am aware of another similar incident involving a boat crashing into the rock at the mouth of the Brisbane R in the last year or two. Probably the same one as the inquest was investigating.

As a frequent user of the Brisbane River at night, I believe the lighting on the wall is inadequate. Have to remember that the lights of the Port of Brisbane are immediately behind it when approaching from say Mud Is or St Helena. It is a low wall and I believe there is 1-2 flashing white lights on it, which are easily lost in the background lights - spotlights, cranes, ships, etc etc.

There is no issue if boats stick to the 'Brisbane Road' marked navigational channel, but many don't as there is plenty of depth if you cut around the Western side of Mud.

On the other hand, it would be extremely foolish to rely on GPS and autopilot when entering a channel of restricted width and with alot of other craft around.

Bloody sad for the kids.

Jeremy

[Jurkyjj]

on the news this morning they said it was a 40 foot Mustang, and kids had broken bones etc.

my first thought was if it was a similar accident to the previous fatality.

It does raise the question lots of lighting needs to be installed on that wall. It would make sense to do so, and maybe now they will rethink the previous opinion that lighting was unnecessary.

Mick

Mick,

I 100% agree. The lighting is poor on the rockwall. I even found it hard to distinguish the rockwall against the backdrop of the Port lights.

Truly sad that the kids were injured.

Jason.

[blacksunday]

http://www.police.qld.gov.au/News+and+Alerts/Media+Releases/2009/08/mrup2.htm


Boat crash, Fisherman Island: Brisbane Water Police are investigating the circumstances surrounding a marine incident which occurred at Fisherman Island last night. About 6.20 a 38-foot Mustang Sports Cruiser collided with the rock wall at the far eastern end of the Fisherman Island reclaimed land area. It appears the vessel has struck the wall at a right angle forcing the boat into the air and up onto the rock wall. Six adults and two children on board were assisted by the Water Police. A 56-year-old woman sustained lacerations to the back of her head and suspected broken cheek bones. A 58-year-old man sustained a deep laceration to his chin. Both were transported to the Princess Alexandra Hospital. Two children on board, aged two and three, were not injured. The hull of the vessel sustained significant damage. TAKEN FROM THE POLICE REPORT WEB SITE

[Jurkyjj]

I am aware of another similar incident involving a boat crashing into the rock at the mouth of the Brisbane R in the last year or two. Probably the same one as the inquest was investigating.

As a frequent user of the Brisbane River at night, I believe the lighting on the wall is inadequate. Have to remember that the lights of the Port of Brisbane are immediately behind it when approaching from say Mud Is or St Helena. It is a low wall and I believe there is 1-2 flashing white lights on it, which are easily lost in the background lights - spotlights, cranes, ships, etc etc.

There is no issue if boats stick to the 'Brisbane Road' marked navigational channel, but many don't as there is plenty of depth if you cut around the Western side of Mud.

On the other hand, it would be extremely foolish to rely on GPS and autopilot when entering a channel of restricted width and with alot of other craft around.

Bloody sad for the kids.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

that is correct. back in 2007 a boat hit the rockwall and i think from memory two people were killed.
My honest opinion was certainly the GPS, cause it does not show up the reclaimed land on the charts.

Jason.

[Jurkyjj]

Hornet Rider,
You are absolutely correct. My account is probably jaded slightly as I too was probably in shock. :-/
The sheer sight of the boat hitting the wall was enough to put anyone in shock I guess. Some of the details that I can recall were probably in-accurate.
Nonetheless, still an amazing Saturday night.

Cheers, Jason.

[rando]

Imagine how the poor bugger feels today.
Boat smashed up, wife injured,probably blaming about himself for an error of judgement.
I feel sorry for the poor bloke!

[boatboy50]

If anyone has pics, please post them up, even of the aftermath.

Anyone relying on charts only is asking for trouble.

I have no idea about this actual incident.

Regards

Darren

[PaulMark]

Its hard to believe following the last accident that all problems around there haven't been sorted out:o.They're quick enough to blame operator error but they certainly don't help things.Lack of lighting is pretty basic and fixable.
Paulo.8-)

[FNQCairns]

Saw some pics on TV today, sitting right on top, seriously that was not a miscalculation or even an accident, it's such a long wall, seriously looks like a cowboy was in charge...I cannot think of a scenario short of a stroke that could in any way excuse even a little bit of why it happened.

cheers fnq

[Jurkyjj]

If anyone has pics, please post them up, even of the aftermath.

Anyone relying on charts only is asking for trouble.

I have no idea about this actual incident.

Regards

Darren

Darren,

I have seen the news update on Channel 9 and this will be on the news tonight.
I seriously doubt if anyone would have gotten pics before daylight as the police and Port Authorities were all over the scene. Daylight pics will be on the news tonight.

Jason.

[stinky-stabi]

seems to me that to many people have to die or be injured before these beauracrats that sit behind there desks in there goverment offices and do nothing seems to be a process we go through time and time again and then when so many fatalities occur we as the minority have to pay for there lack of nouse or logical thinking.......i bet if kevin rudds kid was on that boat there would be flashing strobe light the whole length of that bloody deadly wall
oh how good it would be to have someone with at least half a brain to address these vital safety issues..
just my 5cents worth

[Horse]

Saw some pics on TV today, sitting right on top, seriously that was not a miscalculation or even an accident, it's such a long wall, seriously looks like a cowboy was in charge...I cannot think of a scenario short of a stroke that could in any way excuse even a little bit of why it happened.

cheers fnq

I can fully understand how these accidents have happened. Anyone who has travelled in this area in a vessel with a high vantage point eg flybridge or cruiser will realize that you are looking straight over the wall and seeing the port lights on the other side of it. Itis very deceiving and when combined with the electronic charts not being updated regularly it is an accident waiting to happen. Small trailer boats will not be in danger as the rock wall will show against the background lights as they get close and unless you have spent time in bigger boats you will not understand the change in perspective. Larger vessels are the ones in danger. The rock wall should be better lit in my opinion

[Lucky_Phill]

A tragedy and lucky no one was killed, unlike the incident 2 years ago.

I fish out of the mouth often and for many years and was even at that very spot in the early hours of Saturday morning.

Pre-GPS we'd line up certain land marks for our routes and now days utilize the track log on the GPS as an " aid " to navigating. I routinely travel at about 3/4 of my daylight speed around the bay at night. I have also not seen the wall on a couple of ocassions, but never putting myself in danger, only getting a fright.

I agree with Jeremy about using Brisbane Road to depart and enter the river, even if you are travelling to Mud Island etc.

After seeing the pictures, I can only say that some luck involved by hitting the wall at the right stage of tide.

Hope all recover well and learn from the experience.


Cheers Phill
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[Jurkyjj]

I can fully understand how these accidents have happened. Anyone who has travelled in this area in a vessel with a high vantage point eg flybridge or cruiser will realize that you are looking straight over the wall and seeing the port lights on the other side of it. Itis very deceiving and when combined with the electronic charts not being updated regularly it is an accident waiting to happen. Small trailer boats will not be in danger as the rock wall will show against the background lights as they get close and unless you have spent time in bigger boats you will not understand the change in perspective. Larger vessels are the ones in danger. The rock wall should be better lit in my opinion

Horse, you are 100% correct.
I own only a small tinny and can easily see the rockwall as it stands out well behind the backdrop of the lights from the Port.
I can see how it could have happened if you were higher and didn't have the benefit of distinguishing between the foreground and the background in front of view.
Very good point!!!;)

Jason.

[Zodiac fisho]

I saw the boat in question head out at about midday. I have a tinnie worth $6000 and a GPS that cost $400. When I go out I have it recording my track. On a boat of that size I would think even a basic GPS would be standard and all he had to do was follow the same track back if he knew how to use it. You don't even to have a map installed to use track back so you can't really blame the fact that charts are not up to date.
It's easy to blame the authorities but people need to take some responsibilties for their own actions.

Looked to me like the angle they hit the rocks was the wrong heading to travel up the river anyway.

[black runner]

Unpleasant tale.

However I do think it is up to the skipper to update existing charts by manually entering uncharted or poorly lit structures/hazards into the GPS.

I use only a low end GPS that has inbuilt marine navigation points and take the time to check when I am out to add extras that don't show.

Save running into them at night.

[Ando74]

So do we now put a light on every un-lit danger to navigation on the Queensland coast? That's a lot of lights!

[Jeremy]

So do we now put a light on every un-lit danger to navigation on the Queensland coast? That's a lot of lights!

Interesting question.
1. this is not your 'average' navigation hazard. It IS lit, even if poorly. But it is a highly used area and it is well known that it has changed recently so chart maps do not reflect the real location of the end of the wall. Also, the previous accident - and probably several other non-fatal accidents before that - highlight the danger that this structure presents.

2. there are alot of unlit navigation hazards that bloody well should be better signed or lit. Hundreds of unlit channel beacons which pose a hazard to navigation at night for a start.

Jeremy

[Ando74]

Interesting question.
1. this is not your 'average' navigation hazard. It IS lit, even if poorly. But it is a highly used area and it is well known that it has changed recently so chart maps do not reflect the real location of the end of the wall. Also, the previous accident - and probably several other non-fatal accidents before that - highlight the danger that this structure presents.

2. there are alot of unlit navigation hazards that bloody well should be better signed or lit. Hundreds of unlit channel beacons which pose a hazard to navigation at night for a start.

Jeremy

It actually is an 'average' navigation hazard, and a big one at that!

Notices to Mariners come out every 2 weeks with new dangers to navigation, changes to lights ect., so your 'GPS' is out of date as soon as the next correction comes out.

If you know where an unlit channel marker is (I assume you do as other wise you wouldn't know it was unlit) either mark it on your GPS or slow down, simple.

[SatNav]

1. The call for blanket lighting cover is nonsensical.

2. Need to look at the real issues in no priority order 1) Over reliance on navigation systems 2) Third party chart updates 3) Inexperience

[FNQCairns]

So do we now put a light on every un-lit danger to navigation on the Queensland coast? That's a lot of lights!

I heard someone on TV say say near the same thing and it's not practical to do.

This bloke was a cowboy and an accident (sic) waiting to happen he steamed blind and FAST at night into an area known for hazards. Completely avoidable incident with no excuse for travelling so fast except possibly "i had my fingers crossed".

Seroulsy this bloke was lost in any real time and should have been at 6kn max with a spotter up the front or anchored up to wait for daylight, if the boat was smaller he might have been a worthy contender for the darwin awards. What port did he come out of?

cheers fnq

[Mr__Bean]

I heard someone on TV say say near the same thing and it's not practical to do.

This bloke was a cowboy and an accident (sic) waiting to happen he steamed blind and FAST at night into an area known for hazards. Completely avoidable incident with no excuse for travelling so fast except possibly "i had my fingers crossed".

Seroulsy this bloke was lost in any real time and should have been at 6kn max with a spotter up the front or anchored up to wait for daylight, if the boat was smaller he might have been a worthy contender for the darwin awards. What port did he come out of?

cheers fnq


I think that is a bit harsh.

He has paid a heavy price for his error.

But it is an error not just made by him, there have been serious accidents and deaths previously recorded on this rockwall, god only knows how many "near misses".

I don't think a series of solar powered lights shining down (like jetty lights do) to light up the rocks would be a huge cost or effort. Given the size of the land reclamation project and the development work and cost it would be barely noticeable in the budget.

- Darren

[FNQCairns]

Nah he got off lightly, from reports he even had an infant aboard or very young anyway, i have travelled all those areas lots at night both as passenger and skipper and before the advent GPS onboard, there are things a person just didn't do and if they did they where 'one of those types'.
It's fine to plane the boat in open water at night it's the risk you take, once approaching then it's time to take stock of your position and KNOW where you are.

I am lucky I suppose as I got trained from very early what not to do and when i suppose.

I am still looking for a competent excuse but seriously there is none he was a cowboy and every 3rd boat out there at night is piloted by one.

cheers fnq

[kokomo]

I agree that this guy is a moron...

Imagine if he hit one of the fishing boats.. i dont think he would have ANY support from ANYone here... so take a good hard look at your self if you think he has even half a brain trying to navigate those waters at full noise in a 38footer... and if he was using an antopilot then wow.. zero respect

That said however I checked out the charts this morning and there isa problem with the beacons on the entry to the channel.. check out the latest charts and you will see the channel is lit with cardinal markers (which in my opinion are the most uselsess tools ever in navigation) there are three that approximately run East West... Two of them to leave to port and one to starb.. which can easially be confused by passing in between the two that is to be left to port..

[SatNav]

"however I checked out the charts this morning"

1. If talking charts and would expect to be talking "official" charts? Are these charts the latest and do you have ALL NTM's

[Steve B]

I agree with FNQ

There is no excuse for the poor navigation or skippering skill displayed in this incident.

No one was killed, or seriously injured....he got off VERY lightly
Steve

[Pretzil]

Hey Jason,
Were you interviewed by the courier mail at all or are they taking quotes from ausfish?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25870762-3102,00.html



The smash was witnessed by several other boaties, including one angler known only as Jason who described a "sickening sound" when the cruiser smashed into the rock wall about 100m from the mouth of the river.

[darkside]

I can fully understand how these accidents have happened. Anyone who has travelled in this area in a vessel with a high vantage point eg flybridge or cruiser will realize that you are looking straight over the wall and seeing the port lights on the other side of it. Itis very deceiving and when combined with the electronic charts not being updated regularly it is an accident waiting to happen. Small trailer boats will not be in danger as the rock wall will show against the background lights as they get close and unless you have spent time in bigger boats you will not understand the change in perspective. Larger vessels are the ones in danger. The rock wall should be better lit in my opinion


Be that as it may , it certainly does't excuse this part of the story "This is when I turned around and saw this massive boat going at full noise towards the boat that was anchored ahead. He was absolutely, at what I felt was full throttle. He missed the boat that was anchored in front, BUT, ploughed straight into the rockwall. "

I don't care how big his boat is, or what his visability is like , he could have killed the guys anchored and fishing, what sort of "spud" drives like that, he is a "cowboy" and a danger to others on the water, with any luck he will find another less dangerous hobby before he kills someone. !!!!

[Jurkyjj]

I think that is a bit harsh.

He has paid a heavy price for his error.

But it is an error not just made by him, there have been serious accidents and deaths previously recorded on this rockwall, god only knows how many "near misses".

I don't think a series of solar powered lights shining down (like jetty lights do) to light up the rocks would be a huge cost or effort. Given the size of the land reclamation project and the development work and cost it would be barely noticeable in the budget.

- Darren

Darren,

I agree withyou in a way.
He has paid a heavy price for his error, BUT, having been there and seeing the incident, I feel that he was seriouslt travelling TOO FAST.

That area is well known to be a problem spot.

I have the luxury of knowing the area really well, but, I still travel at a safe and acceptable speed, even though I only own a 11 foot tinny.

I have no idea where this guy thought he was going, as if you see the angle that he has hit the wall, he wasn't heading an old course up the river, he hit it flush on.

Yes he has paid a heavy price, but, with children on board, nmaybe a little more care was needed.

Jason.

[Jurkyjj]

Hey Jason,
Were you interviewed by the courier mail at all or are they taking quotes from ausfish?

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,25870762-3102,00.html

No mate, they must have taken the report I wrote on Ausfish for that info.

I actually saw this yesterday afternoon, but, checked the Courier Mail today and half of that story is not in the paper.

Jason.

[Jeremy]

It actually is an 'average' navigation hazard, and a big one at that!


You are the authority on what constitutes an 'average' navigation hazard are you? IMHO, (1) being in a well used area (2) being a large solid structure (3) with known lighting issues, then it is an ABOVE AVERAGE navigation hazard.



Notices to Mariners come out every 2 weeks with new dangers to navigation, changes to lights ect., so your 'GPS' is out of date as soon as the next correction comes out.




If you know where an unlit channel marker is (I assume you do as other wise you wouldn't know it was unlit) either mark it on your GPS or slow down, simple.

Both points are nit picky and pretty useless here. Point is, alot of people - rightly or wrongly - rely on their chartplotters maps. The maps are updated every couple of years if you are lucky, and lets face it, very few people subscribe to the NTMs.

Unlit beacons are a danger to people who are unfamiliar with an area. There are lots of these people out there who fish occasionally, and lots more who do not have a GPS. I have had close calls in the past with nav markers after dark at Donnybrook and Jumpinpin. Bloody scary on a black night, and definitely a hazard to navigation.

Jeremy

[AnthonyL]

I took a few pics yesterday on my phone.. will see if I can transfer them on the the computer.

[PADDLES]

it's hard to pass judgement without knowing the full story ie. was there some sort of failure on the boat.

if there was no failure and this was just pure negligence, then this is just the latest in a long line of stupid, preventable accidents and the authorities should throw the book at this guy. when in charge of a 3t piece of fibreglass in the dark, the operator should be well on his game and maybe not be on the plane in that area, he should at least be using a properly tuned in radar as an aid and not a frikkin gps. remember guys, it was a rock wall this time, imagine if it was you and your kids having a nice "quiet" evening fish down in the river that got mowed by this boat.

as an aside story on the lighting. i've recently been involved with some private development down in the port of brisbane. i can tell you this, if you wish to put something into their (port of brisbane) water, it has to be adequately lit and the structure as well as the lighting design has to be approved by them. it does make you ask why this procedure has not been followed for something that THEY have put into the water.

[hooknose]

The bloke is an irresponsible kook( plenty of them down here in GC waters with big expensive toys and little or no common sense or respect for others on the water), lucky no one was killed, shouldnt have a boat licence IMHO !

[Ando74]

You are the authority on what constitutes an 'average' navigation hazard are you? IMHO, (1) being in a well used area (2) being a large solid structure (3) with known lighting issues, then it is an ABOVE AVERAGE navigation hazard.





Both points are nit picky and pretty useless here. Point is, alot of people - rightly or wrongly - rely on their chartplotters maps. The maps are updated every couple of years if you are lucky, and lets face it, very few people subscribe to the NTMs.

Unlit beacons are a danger to people who are unfamiliar with an area. There are lots of these people out there who fish occasionally, and lots more who do not have a GPS. I have had close calls in the past with nav markers after dark at Donnybrook and Jumpinpin. Bloody scary on a black night, and definitely a hazard to navigation.

Jeremy


Try this site.

www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Notices_to_mariners/Ntm_brisbane/

Free to all, Brisbane Pilotage area, only need to flick down the titles and read what you think is applicable to your area.

If they are useless to all on here I'd be very surprised.

And yes, in my occupation I do have an above average understanding of dangers to navigation.

[Scott nthQld]

wihout trawling through every post....this was on the news up here and they said there was no lighting or signage (not that signage would matter seeing as though it would've been dark) and this 'accident' occured on the recently added 1.8km stretch.

Is this true, that there is no lighting on the wall? And if so, being a man made structure inside Moreton Bay, I could go as far as saying that the QLD Govt, MSQ and Police are directly responsible for not marking the wall with lights. The copper they had on the news said it was 'impractical' to do so....man, what a complete tool, I would have knocked his block off on national telly if I was the bloke who crashed.

[Twisted_Pair]

SATNAV,

Don't know if there has been another incident on the rockwall, but, this was at the front of the rockwall about 100m around from the mouth.
There is a BIG sign on the wall about 30 metres away from where the boat ended up on the rocks.

Sorry I can't help further.

Jason.

6hrs 14mins later!


Jeremy,

that is correct. back in 2007 a boat hit the rockwall and i think from memory two people were killed.
My honest opinion was certainly the GPS, cause it does not show up the reclaimed land on the charts.

Jason.

WTF :-X what a memory!:-[

[dogsbody]

It's any wonder he didn't run down some of those clowns on the water who think they don't need any lighting on there boats as well. Maybe this guy was distracted for a second while he was wiping off the caviar off his chinos.

Just glad no one died.

Dave

[rando]

Ive traveled that area at night fairly frequently in vessels of various sizes from 5m-20m . I know my night vision is below average and i suspect his would be also as we are of a similiar age.
Yes he made an error ,,, too fast .
But i can tell you that I find it very difficult to see that wall with all the port lights and nav beacons behind it, and I know where it is.
I can easily understand that he simply could not see it.

Add to that a measure of confusion over where the marks are ( anyone here ever got a mark wrong at night?) and the whole scenario becomes understandable.

Your are all banging on about bad seamanship, maybe he just couldn't see and thought he had the leads lined up.

rando

[oldboot]

Now all piss and vinegar aside..........

This is probably one of the busiest boating areas in the state, and one has to consider the inocent others in the equasion.

we don't just install navigation and road safety aids to prevent injury to the idiots, we do it for the sake of the inocents involved, for the sake of the pasengers and the poor suckers at anchor minding their own business.

It is my view that there is a strong and reasonable case for marking this particular hazard.

We can not rely on the knoweledge , skill and presence of mind to protect (oh don't they love that word) who arent at fault.

As for notices to mariners.........seriously... how many of us read them regularly.. and we ( hopefully) are the responsible & informed.
I dare say the vast majority of boaties have never read them..... not even once.

It does draw attention to how much you need to be on the ball when navigating at night.......you need to be carrying your up to date charts and positively identifying those beacons.......and that is harder that it sometimes seems.

The government is all keen to tell us about fishing under the warves and keeping clear with brownies radio adds.........how about watch out for the rock wall and other stuff out at the mouth.

cheers

[hungry6]

I'm suprised that wall hasnt killed more people. Awhile back we navigate this section of the bay and approached this wall in a largish vessel, I have local knowledge of this wall and warned the vessel owner of it where about, without local knowledge, I think a near miss and a change of undies would be in order. From the helm at around 15knts with cold air and salt deposits on our screen, the jagged edge of those rocks blends in perfectly with the shape of the surrounding choppy crest. That wall needs to be lit up like a BLOODY xmas tree, it's a heavily used wateway. A bunch of solar powered lights is alot cheaper than a death inquiries and medical bill for anyone else involved.
I've personally seen a police boat high and dry in another area, and that is with local knowedge and training in the area.

[Jeremy]

And yes, in my occupation I do have an above average understanding of dangers to navigation.

Well if the rock wall poses an average danger to navigation as you have stated :o ::) , why don't you tell us what makes an above average danger to navigation?

Are you from the local Brisbane area and do you actually use this area in a boat yourself, first hand, or are you some desk jockey making assessments from an office?

I ask this because there seems to be ALOT of locals who agree that the wall is poorly lit, in a heavily used area.

Jeremy

[Ando74]

Well if the rock wall poses an average danger to navigation as you have stated :o ::) , why don't you tell us what makes an above average danger to navigation?

Are you from the local Brisbane area and do you actually use this area in a boat yourself, first hand, or are you some desk jockey making assessments from an office?

I ask this because there seems to be ALOT of locals who agree that the wall is poorly lit, in a heavily used area.

Jeremy

Master Mariner (Master Class 1), Brisbane local, have brought 200m oil tankers into the Port of Brisbane up to Hamilton, and currently working as a ship's Master.
Required to complete a 2 yearly course in fast rescue boat operations so am well versed in both navigation and operating both large and small vessels at normal operating speed and 30 knots plus.
Oh yeah, I also fish the bay.
PM me and we can talk about it over a beer, too hard to explain things properly in a forum like this.

[robersl]

Correct me if i am wrong but is there not a cardinal mark out from that rock wall now i am sure i seen one there the other day and i am sure you have to stay to the outside of that mark but a boat that big why was he not coming back in the marked channel if he went out in the morning surely he had to know a rock wall was there even i know you can see the out line of the wall coming ovrfrom redcliffe but not sure about head on, i know there gps data was out but you still have to steer the boat in case someone is in front of you' it's sad i know but no sympathy as they could of run down another boat anchored any where in his path if there was no one at the helm

shane

[ifishcq1]

before anything else I'm glad there was no death or longterm injuries
I can't believe all the crap with people blaming lack of lights or nav aids
you need to drive to the conditions before all else and regardless of what Nav system is in place
how long has the wall been there? well it wasn't built yesterday
someone has to be watching at all times for moving ,anchored or permanent hazzards
nobody with even a hint of intelligence takes their eyes off the road while driving so what is the difference
this falls into the same catagory as the blokes that hit Flinders reef and it has never moved in front of a boat yet
unless something fails in the steering or another mechanical fault it is plain and simple operator error
It is unfortunate and a very hard lesson learned but it could have been so much worse
cheers

[Jeremy]

Master Mariner (Master Class 1), Brisbane local, have brought 200m oil tankers into the Port of Brisbane up to Hamilton, and currently working as a ship's Master.
Required to complete a 2 yearly course in fast rescue boat operations so am well versed in both navigation and operating both large and small vessels at normal operating speed and 30 knots plus.
Oh yeah, I also fish the bay.
PM me and we can talk about it over a beer, too hard to explain things properly in a forum like this.

Fair enuf, but you didn't answer the question about what makes an 'above average' danger to navigation, or why the rock wall is 'average'

Jeremy

[FNQCairns]

Curiously since my first reading of that Courier mail report the wording has now been edited, to better suit credibility when caught out....... they no longer refer to an interview with a person known only as Jason:).

It's a bit of a crackup :)

cheers fnq

[SatNav]

1. When everybody is done with trying to justify excuses and more excuses for lights that can't be justified could the direction be forward and towards the main cause

2. Enough of the excuses and talk of christmas tree lights, not warranted.

[swabio]

aaah the CM.... what a wonderful piece of jourgooglenalism!

[Ando74]

Fair enuf, but you didn't answer the question about what makes an 'above average' danger to navigation, or why the rock wall is 'average'

Jeremy

To me (and it's only my opinion, doesn't mean it's right or wrong) that wall has been growing for the past 6 years, so it is now part of the coast. I wouldn't consider the shore of Moreton an above average danger, we all know it's there and navigate up and down it accordingly.

Above average to me is something that you cannot see (ie submerged), is in a major traffic area, is in an area where deviating from a course is difficult due to other hazards in close proximity, positions are sometimes 'approximate', and reduction in speed is required to safely transit the area. (There are many more as well.) And yes, you could probably say that about the rock wall area, but to me I don't think it is.

Again, my opinion, and my background may make me see things differently.

[Blusta]

Agree about the CM swabio. Should be on glossy paper.;D

[Mr__Bean]

1. When everybody is done with trying to justify excuses and more excuses for lights that can't be justified could the direction be forward and towards the main cause

2. Enough of the excuses and talk of christmas tree lights, not warranted.

What are you the Coroner are you?

Or do you have an agenda for satellite navigation and a narrow view of this?

- Darren

[SatNav]

1. So are you ready to talk in real terms or continue with what has been in the main (apart from a selected few) typical, lacking unconstructive and off target comments

[SatNav]

1. For the uninitiated (as evidenced in some comments to date) the previous coronial inquiry found 1) Over reliance on electronic navigation systems 2) Out of date charts

2. Over reliance on navigation systems comes completely back to the user and is attributed to inexperience and not understanding the basics of navigation

3. Out of date charts is quite a different matter and is a direct result of generally third party providers putting profits before safety in what is a limited market.

4. Perhaps no charts at all would be safer than hopelessly out dated charts which give a false sense of safety

5 Perhaps third party chart providers should be forced into a time critical update program but oh the howls that would come from the third party providers

6. User complacency and the need to hold many a user's hand is becoming apparently more obvious.

[tunaticer]

My personal opinion is that this fellow in charge of the boat that hit the wall should face charges on endangering the safety of the public and his passengers, as well as failure to keep watch (regardless if the lighting cop out most people are spruiking). I think the police could possibly form a few more charges during their investigations as well.

Af for the available charting being out of date, I think we all should be demanding yearly updates of common shipping areas and ports to become a reality. I have been putting off buying a new chart for one of my GPS units because the one that is currently for sale is woefully out of touch in SEQ.

Reliance on GPS systems is a real problem that many people fall victim to. I do use them for reference but i do not use them for navigation, I let the real world steer my route and the digital memory to back up my general location. As a tool the GPS is good for one thing for me, to record the places I find to be able to reasonably easily revisit them in the future.

My GPS is not a navigation tool for me, never has been and never will be.

[FNQCairns]

Sounds like it was a party boat and all that entails from dock to dock, if I see anything amiss on my charts compared to the real world I take the time to waypoint it, even if that means a boring 20 waypoints to outline what 'is' in the real world.

Why wouldn't he have on the way out done the same, I would not consider his time any more important than mine, it's not as if they built the wall in his absence.

cheers fnq

[Chimo]

What does your GPS front page advise when you first turn it on?

Chimo

[finding_time]

1. So are you ready to talk in real terms or continue with what has been in the main (apart from a selected few) typical, lacking unconstructive and off target comments

You may go by a differant handle these days Satnav but you still come across exactaly the same way you used to!!;D ;D

Gps plotters should only be used as a guide period! To take what you see on the screen as gosple is just plain silly imho, and as far as laying snail trails and using them to come back across coastal bars at night, well thats plain just asking for trouble one day!

Ian

[Mr__Bean]

1. So are you ready to talk in real terms or continue with what has been in the main (apart from a selected few) typical, lacking unconstructive and off target comments


Now the penny drops, why the change in member name?

I used to lookout for your posts just to read the insults.

Welcome back Kerry.

- Darren

:-*

[PinHead]

Now the penny drops, why the change in member name?

I used to lookout for your posts just to read the insults.

Welcome back Kerry.

- Darren

:-*

LOL Darren..you hadn't twigged ???

[Noelm]

just to get back on track a bit, I do not quite understand why anyone would be Navigating by GPS/Electronics/Charts when you are what amounts to very close proximity to shore, and if indeed the boat was on auto pilot, then it is even worse, by all means have the GPS up and running,but to blindly steer by it when you are near shore is about as silly as you can get (well I reckon)

[Noelm]

OH and I was not aware it was our esteemed colleague Kerry either!

[SatNav]

1. That's an interesting ploy to side track the issue? There must be something more behind that one?

2. On the subject of charts it appears many people might have lost the ability or don't see the necessity to work with paper charts these days?

3. This particular rock wall is well and truly covered on conventional charts and has been so for quite some years, dozens of vessels apparently manage quite well to avoid hitting this part of the east coast on any given day yet two vessels hit it and the flood of excuses let alone the suggestions are amazing.

4. It would be interesting to know of all those who have responded here (positively or negatively) actually have a current up to date chart of this area. A couple I know of would have but the rest if not then why not?

[Noelm]

what you said in point 3 is very important, lots of boats I would assume, have navigated this stretch of water without misshap, surely it was not just dumb luck on their part, they must have either paid attention to what was around them, kept a good lookout, and/or knew what they are doing.

[Jeremy]

Lots of lots of assumptions and guesswork on here laying the foundation for finger pointing and accusations.




1. When everybody is done with trying to justify excuses and more excuses for lights that can't be justified could the direction be forward and towards the main cause

2. Enough of the excuses and talk of christmas tree lights, not warranted.

Despite your agenda:P , the lighting of the wall IS A REAL ISSUE, as many others have commented. Clearly, not the only or main issue, but it remains a FACT that it is poorly lit considering the background lights, and could reasonably be construed to be a contributing factor.

Belittling of others does not make you bigger Kerry:o

Jeremy

[Cheech]

I agree with Jeremy and others that this is not a usual navigation hazard. It makes a big difference having that one cardinal, but a few lights along it would help a lot. It really does look like you can traverse through it as it is almost impossible to see.

I can understand him not seeing the wall. Not seeing the other boats is a completely different issue assuming they had anchor lights on.

[Mr__Bean]

Has anyone heard anything factual that he was actually navigating to his GPS / plotter or is all this based on assumption?

I take note of an earlier post advising that the rock wall is very hard to see on high tide if navigating from a flybridge, given that there is water behind the wall not land.

An important point to consider for those that may not be familiar with the Port of Brisbane land reclamation project.

This is an incomplete project not a shoreline.

Have a look at the image below and imagine yourself looking over the wall on a calm water night (no white wash) when the tide is up high on the wall.

[SatNav]

1. Which ever way anyone looks at this anybody who hits this wall is failing in their navigation obligations and awareness of their surrounds. This is totally regardless of lighting or other excusable reasoning.

2. In this type of situation incomplete or not it is the skippers/navigators responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all times and this requirement would even be at a much higher level of alertness especially in this type of situation.

3. This only continues to highlight the subject of charts in that it appears many people might have lost the ability or don't see the necessity to work with paper charts these days. Yes people are failing their obligations.

[PADDLES]

you've got that right mate, people are definitely failing in their obligations as a skipper. what about the stuff that's not marked on a gps or chart ..................... ie. other boats!!!!!

[sheridan]

Sounds like the lady in America driving in a motor home set it on cruise controll and went in the back to make a cup of tea then wondered why it crashed . TRUE STORY.

Geoff

[Crunchy]

I was at the sydney boat show yesterday and had a look at the latest Navionics Gold card. Thought I would check out what it shows on the maroochy river bar as a matter of interest. It showed Pincushion Island on the south side of the entrance, for those of you that don't know the area, pincushion island has been on the north side of the entrance for how many years now (5 or more?) Anyway, I would definately not be naviagting by electoronic chart alone....if you did that with this chart you would end up high and dry on the beach assuming trying to navigate in the dark to exit the river entrance. Needless to say I didn't bother to anti up $$$ to "Upgrade'.

[supertinny]

Sounds like the lady in America driving in a motor home set it on cruise controll and went in the back to make a cup of tea then wondered why it crashed . TRUE STORY.

Geoff


Really??

http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp

[Jurkyjj]

Has anyone heard anything factual that he was actually navigating to his GPS / plotter or is all this based on assumption?

I take note of an earlier post advising that the rock wall is very hard to see on high tide if navigating from a flybridge, given that there is water behind the wall not land.

An important point to consider for those that may not be familiar with the Port of Brisbane land reclamation project.

This is an incomplete project not a shoreline.

Have a look at the image below and imagine yourself looking over the wall on a calm water night (no white wash) when the tide is up high on the wall.

Darren,

I have sat back a little over the last couple of pages and watched all this debate unfold.:o
Considering that I was the one that posted the report up I guess it is "my obligation" to say that it is completely assumption based that the was running on auto pilot.
I could have only assumed that he was due to the fact that there was no last minute movements or swerving before he hit the wall.
It is not gospel or fact that he was on auto pilot or following a GPS.

I hope that this clears up any confusion that there might have been.

Jason.

[PinHead]

1. Which ever way anyone looks at this anybody who hits this wall is failing in their navigation obligations and awareness of their surrounds. This is totally regardless of lighting or other excusable reasoning.

2. In this type of situation incomplete or not it is the skippers/navigators responsibility to be aware of their surroundings at all times and this requirement would even be at a much higher level of alertness especially in this type of situation.

3. This only continues to highlight the subject of charts in that it appears many people might have lost the ability or don't see the necessity to work with paper charts these days. Yes people are failing their obligations.

you have never hit a sandbank? I know I have on quite a few occassions but i am a lousy skipper and am not perfect regrettably.

Paper charts? what for? then you have to work stuff out...not enough time for that

[Mozza]

I've found it hard enough trying to pick out the markers into the harbour in Townsville at night and nearly smashed into the reclaim wall because of the lighting behind. And that's 'driving to conditions'.

Brisbane and surrounds must be diabolical at night...

IMO this guys was nuts going that fast approaching the port area.

Mozza

[GBC]

For a paper chart to work, one has to unroll it and look at it.
In a planing vessel that basically means making a stop then taking fixes.::)
I own a planing vessel and I own paper charts - the only time the two have ever been combined is whilst looking for a spot to fish. (Used brownies to get around the Broadwater/pin - does that count?)

The wall is a manmade obstruction to navigation and under the IALA system it should be bouyed and marked as such - I believe the minimum required has been completed, but it still isn't enough. A couple more reds down the length of it would help a lot.

Having said that, the bloke nearly mowed down a couple of other boats and hit the wall at cruise speed - barring mech failure they should throw the book at him.

Glad no-one was badly damaged.

[hungry6]

Ok, just a side comment. How much does it cost to keep someone on life support for a week and how much does it cost to run a few lights for a week.. and how do you explain to a family who has lost love ones, we cannot control the variables of anchored boat, but this wall aint going anywhere in a hurry, why not light it up?
You can either live life to the letter of the law or live life with common sense and do everything you can to enable safety of the general public and love ones.
It doesnt matter where this debate goes, but I will be screaming to the people at hand to get lights on that bloody wall. I have to appologised to all those who objects to having lights on that wall.

[Chine]

The breakwalls in two NSW major ports are lit by solar powered lights complementing both lead lights and channel buoyage. This is a recent innovation and is recognised as an enhancement to situational awareness.

I would have thought that a balance of temporary solar lighting for this port infrastructure new building balanced with additional buoyage would go someway to preventing this type of accident although you can never cater for outright negligence. Once the reclamation is completed the definition will arise from working floodlights and temporary arrangements could be removed.

With regards to paper charts how are you to determine your position?

Radar ranges and bearings?
Soundings?
Transpose GPS co-ordinates?Are paper charts appropriate? In a limited fashion.

The pivotal statements in this thread are;

Any navigation aid is only an aid and needs to be complemented by any other aid available including visual and aural.
The timeframe between changes to navigable waterways and updated electronic charting is inordinately slow leading to some dangerous assumptions.
It is every Master's responsibility to conduct his vessel commensurate with the prevailing conditions. This requires a safe speed.Really sad to hear that the kids were hurt.......

[Fish Lips]

..........PM me and we can talk about it over a beer, too hard to explain things properly in a forum like this........

I like your style Ando!8-)
You didn't let yourself be drawn into a slanging match.

If your ever down my way, i'll take you up on that beer.

Cheers
Simmo

[finga]

You can either live life to the letter of the law or live life with common sense and do everything you can to enable safety of the general public and love ones.
It doesnt matter where this debate goes, but I will be screaming to the people at hand to get lights on that bloody wall. I have to appologised to all those who objects to having lights on that wall.
Lights that you can see against the background would be nice.
Just too many friggin' different coloured lights about the background to make sense out of navigational beacons sometimes.
Big bright blinking ones like strobe flashers on the tops of forklifts and graders and the like would do I reckon.

I don't really know why they have flashing lights on huge items of machinery.
If you can't see a huge D10 or grader or even a bobcat coming at ya I don't think a flashing light is gunna make a difference

[SatNav]

"Are paper charts appropriate? In a limited fashion."

1. In the context of paper charts, on paper yes these are only as good as the print date. What is probably more important in conjunction is the NTM's from this source and applicable to all mariners from professionals through to the occasional boatie especially considering lots of things can change for the occasional boatie.

2. Notices To Mariners! Perhaps for those that don't check, receive or subscribe to NTM's then they might have to decide if they are "mariners" or not? It's a free service people, recommend you subscribe to enotices.

3. Third party chart providors however appear to be a real problem with timely updates and especially with any interim notification changes. This section of the charting/mapping industry really needs to lift their game, big time.

4. But without good watch keeping and taking all details into account then no amount of info will help some.

[Chine]

"Are paper charts appropriate? In a limited fashion."

1. In the context of paper charts, on paper yes these are only as good as the print date. What is probably more important in conjunction is the NTM's from this source and applicable to all mariners from professionals through to the occasional boatie especially considering lots of things can change for the occasional boatie.

2. Notices To Mariners! Perhaps for those that don't check, receive or subscribe to NTM's then they might have to decide if they are "mariners" or not? It's a free service people, recommend you subscribe to enotices.
Agree. This is the link and you can define your porfolio. http://www.hydro.gov.au/enotices/enotices.htm#types
It would not be difficult to input enotice details onto your GPS chartplotter electronic chart and/or paper chart. If you correct your paper chart with an enotice then remember to put the notice number at the bottom of the chart for future reference.


3. Third party chart providors however appear to be a real problem with timely updates and especially with any interim notification changes. This section of the charting/mapping industry really needs to lift their game, big time.

4. But without good watch keeping and taking all details into account then no amount of info will help some.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the accident investigation including any recommendations.


Try this site.

www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Notices_to_mariners/Ntm_brisbane/ (http://www.msq.qld.gov.au/Home/Notices_to_mariners/Ntm_brisbane/)

Free to all, Brisbane Pilotage area, only need to flick down the titles and read what you think is applicable to your area.

If they are useless to all on here I'd be very surprised.

And yes, in my occupation I do have an above average understanding of dangers to navigation.

Similar advice from Ando74.

[mattooty]

Having only navigated less developed river systems such as the Clarence, I cannot talk from experience on-water in the city, so don't take my thoughts as fact.
First up, there has been 7 pages of arguments on lighting up the wall, when (not that I've read) it was never stated this occurred at night. I read it as occurring in the late afternoon, prior to night setting in. This would lead me to conclude that the accident occurred during the day light hours of the day. A little more onus is placed on the skipper now, as he had the option of visually keeping an eye on the expected course of the cruiser. Any argument of having to rely on sat-maps are void.
It has been said that there is already minimal lighting on this wall. At what locations? Just the start and end or along the length of it? What size are these lights and is there any accompanying signage warning skippers/navigators of the obstruction?
I sympathise with the skipper, purely because of what happened, regardless of the surrounding circumstances, the bloke cocked up and put his families life at risk. This is a feeling I'm sure no father wants to be placed in. I would hate to be (naively) doing what I believed was right and taking my family on a pleasure cruise only to very near kill them. Do you think that this will be the last accident on this stretch of water? Give it a month and all this talk will be forgotten.
If you're contemplating upgrading your nav-charts, then do it now while the ramifications are still very easily seen.


I was at the sydney boat show yesterday and had a look at the latest Navionics Gold card. Thought I would check out what it shows on the maroochy river bar as a matter of interest. It showed Pincushion Island on the south side of the entrance, for those of you that don't know the area, pincushion island has been on the north side of the entrance for how many years now (5 or more?) Anyway, I would definately not be naviagting by electoronic chart alone....if you did that with this chart you would end up high and dry on the beach assuming trying to navigate in the dark to exit the river entrance. Needless to say I didn't bother to anti up $$$ to "Upgrade'.

Out of curiosity, did you mention this to the salesman? And if so what was his response?

[dogsbody]

Mattooty post #7 said it was at 6.30pm. I think there's a light at the end of it, don't think signage would help,it would have to be bloody huge to make any difference.

Best off taking a gps mark well away from the end of it for a reference to guide you home.

Dave

[mattooty]

Dogsbody, I've gotta read a little more carefully. hahaha
Is there any more info regarding whether it's auto-pilot fault, mechanical fault or skippers fault (by default, his fault regardless)?

[slyman]

Yeah incident occured around 6.20pm - 6.30pm, sunset up here at the moment is 5.20pm, so it would have been quite dark.

[SgBFish]

If there isn’t a problem with the lighting why does the POB feel the need to park at least one piece of heavy machinery on the wall at night with its yellow light flashing?

Haven't they admitted some liability in doing so.

This bloke has paid a heavy price for his own failure as a skipper and that of someone else.

No doubt part of my insurance premium will ease his pain.

[Jurkyjj]

Yeah incident occured around 6.20pm - 6.30pm, sunset up here at the moment is 5.20pm, so it would have been quite dark.

Yes mate is was dark!!!
Pretty much just on 6:20pm. I called it for 6:30pm originally, but, with all the excitement (I use that word carefully as people were hurt) I got it a little wrong.:-/

It was actually around 6:20pm and yep......it was dark enough!!

Jason.

[mustang5]

Funny reading back on this. I went out to mud on Saturday night and for the life of me could not see that rock wall!!! two illuminated beacons at the tip was all I could make out!

Coming from bramble bay anf fishing the southern shalllows of bramble on the way.. Then decided to head directly across to the south of mud...

One thing though, without the latest beacon to beacon basically sitting on the steering wheel, I would have had an even worse time locating where I was going..

Without the use of gps(I too follow the argument already said stating GPS dont outline anchored or stationary object), it took using the 3 antennas on St Helena Island to gather bearings and position us on course towards south of mud.. We got a little too close for comfort to the wall, but never once went over about 10-15knts, and always had 2-3 people watching like hawks ahead of us to see whats in our path.