Little help please on welders

[FNQCairns]

I am seriously considering the purchase of a welder, it will be a MIG and single phase and $2000 or less. The unit will be use exclusively for aluminium up to 8mm with multiple passes to get it etc doubt it will see very much of that size in reality but want it to do a normal range if ever needed

Below are links to my choices so far anything a stand out or stand down:P or anything else worth considering before the no going back stage:-X

https://boc.com.au/b2c_au/catalog/setCurrentItem/(xcm=CRM_PBC_006&layout=6_1_60_49_5_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&next=seeItem&carea=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA&citem=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA3F8EF8A6DDF2 307FE10000009D642FE6)/.do

https://boc.com.au/b2c_au/catalog/setCurrentItem/(xcm=CRM_PBC_006&layout=6_1_60_49_5_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&next=seeItem&carea=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA&citem=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA4487A355A30B E06EE1000000A16402CA)/.do

https://boc.com.au/b2c_au/catalog/setCurrentItem/(xcm=CRM_PBC_006&layout=6_1_60_49_5_2&uiarea=2&ctype=areaDetails&next=seeItem&carea=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA&citem=478A91F236EC02E1E1008000A16402CA44A99B17942E E01AE1000000A16402CA)/.do

http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Products/MIG_Welder_-_Weldmatic_175-21334

I am swaying toward the little kemppi or the wia all on a 15amp plug but as i have not ever welded alum I just dunno which of all above is the best package (heard the kemppi can have a problematic gun??)

Which one would you choose, any advice welcome

cheers fnq

[FNQCairns]

Mostly I would like to make stuff for the boat, bait board, rod holders, auxiliary mount, pod redesign, t top, bow rails, raised deck etc so I guess it might need to be used in the boat at times.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

I have a mate who sells welders, and he reckons the Kempi is a great machine, (he just sold one to another mate of mine from work) I can give you his number if you want to call him and ask questions, he is in NSW, so I guess actually buying one off him would be a tad tricky, but he will give you all the good info without any bullsh!t. If you are going to weld almost entirely Aluminium, then a spool gun is a good investment, that's just from what I have used.

[finga]

I have one of the little WIA's.
Only trouble since 1993 is the wire feed speed control stuffed up.
Nice and portable too but watch the size of the wire rolls that can go in them.
They are only small but I made a remote wire spool holder up.
They should have a Bernard gun too so bits are easy to get and fairly fool proof.

Personally, I would not buy a little Kempi as a mig.

[DAZMC1]

If you can afford it the first pic of a 250 amp machine is far more superior to the other machines. The BOC machine is actually a rebadged Kemmppi and if you want to weld ally up to 8mm your going to need to use 1mm wire and a fair few amps. If you use smaller wire it can be a real pain in the arse with trying to push the wire thruogh. You will also have to get a nylon liner and ally rollers. Use argon gas and once you,ve got it set up correctly its a piece of piss. The other 3 machines you showed you would not be happy with especially on ally. Any questions give me a pm.By the way I do this shit for a living.

darren.

[sheridan]

Hi FNQCairns
Used WIA migs for 10 years rarely had trouble only liners but if you blew it out when you put a new spool of wire on wasn't to bad but we welded 8hrs a day 5 days a week sometimes 2000 welds a day .We had 7 WIA's and one new BOC didn't think much of the BOC but it was cheaper than the WIA's.

Geoff

[Blaster Bretty]

Not trying to highjack you thread FNQ but I thought for aluminium welding you would use a tig welder, unless the mig can be used with the gas running as well! but because aluminium has a very low melting point I would of thought a lower amperage would be needed!
Please dont forget I have been living under a rock down here in brissie so a heads up about aluminium welding would help me out as well as give FNQ a fews tips too!
All my welding has been done with big arc welder's and I also would like to explore the art of aluminium welding!

Bretty

[FNQCairns]

Thanks all for the replies, I am well researched out now but with thanks to DAZMC1's comments over the BOC I looked closer.

I think at the moment it's the way to go, great duty cycle, welds well by all accounts but gee it's heavy, 79kg for the 'c' which has the internal small wire spools and an extra 19 or so kg for the 'r' which has the unit on top that takes the big spools and has the push and pull wire feeder (i think).

Another question please,

I am going to have trouble getting the go ahead from SWMBO for the extra money needed to this purchase one......is it seriously worth the extra $550 to buy the one with the big feeder unit??

cheers fnq

[oldboot]

for the benifit of bretty.
Aluminium may indeed have a lower melting point but it conducts both heat and electricisty sooooo much better than steel. As electric welding is a resistance process you need lots more current to weld ally.
And yess TIG is great and very commonly used for aluminium, but MIG is easier and faster.

cheers

[DAZMC1]

I thought that the c would have been able to take 15kg spools (steel) but also check that the Magmate is not a rebadged Migomag because they are a good brand aswell. Its ok to only use 5kg spools but makesure theyre not just minispools only.

[FNQCairns]

Ok cheers will also check on the Migomag, BTW what is a traveller?

cheers fnq

[DAZMC1]

Hi FNQCairns
Used WIA migs for 10 years rarely had trouble only liners but if you blew it out when you put a new spool of wire on wasn't to bad but we welded 8hrs a day 5 days a week sometimes 2000 welds a day .We had 7 WIA's and one new BOC didn't think much of the BOC but it was cheaper than the WIA's.

Geoff
I agree as to WIA being a good brand,I used to have half a dozen 350 fabricators and hardly any trouble, but when i switched over to Kemppi with inverter tech it was a lot better not to mention using about a third the power.I believe that WIA has gone a little bit downhill lately. But I still love the old 350 fabs.

[DAZMC1]

A traveller is the wire feeder that sits on top. you take it off and you can travel around the w/shop.

[finga]

Ok cheers will also check on the Migomag, BTW what is a traveller?

cheers fnq
A traveller is the gismo on top of some welders...its the small remote bit that you can move and leave the big heavy bit in one place.

[FNQCairns]

NICE! thanks that sounds like the go! so does that unit on top contain the wire also or is it a motor that pulls the wire....you can see my level and learning curve right here:)

Great for hoping in the boat!

cheers fnq

[DAZMC1]

Yes that box contains the wire and has push rollers in it.

[dunks84]

For the kind of work you are planning on doing you really need to spend the extra money and shell out (maybe $3000) for a decent welder capable of 200+ amps. Kemppi make good quality welders but I wouldn't buy the minarc/mig 180. Not a big fan of BOC welders, made in China, need I say any more. In my opinion the pick of the bunch is probably the WIA(miller) good quality machine, reliable and easy to get parts for but would advise going from the 175 to the next size up. Also highly recommend CEA welders if you have an agent nearby, European built and a pleasure to weld with. When you start welding buy a heap of offcuts to practice with, ally welding requires much more hand (travel) speed.

[Explorer570]

I purchased a BOC250R way back in 2000 for $2200 (no GST in those days). Seems like yesterday.:D
As a non commercial user this machine has performed faultlessly. Probably gone through 20 or more 15kg 0.9mm wire rolls since new.
I have built countless trailers, numerous repairs, structural work (<10mm), some aluminium work with no issues. I usually use Argoshied Light for mild steel and Argon for aluminium. You will need to source the semi-circle rollers for aluminium and the teflon liner.
I would certainly recommend this machine and have also heard good things about WIA and CIG.
Cheers Sam

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Scott
,
Mate - $2000 + Argon + Ally Wire !!

The above money will buy you a lot of hours labour from your local Ally engineering workshop. They also have presses, benders, rollers, guillos etc. All of which are rather handy doing any fabrication work. ;)

The Welder is only one piece of the puzzle:)

Seriously, if you haven't welded Ally before - it will take you a bit to get used to it. Your amps and wire speed settings are crucial as is hand speed. Birdsnests in your wire feeder are frustrating - until you get it sussed out.

However if you have money to burn and can get around the above points - Go for it and have fun.

One other piece of advice - If you don't have an auto darkening helmet - wear sunglasses when tacking - this greatly minimises the risk of welding flash - which can be brutal with Ally (very reflective).

Mark

[Wahoo]

Scott, i brought my WIA thru a guy in Innisfail, Big machine for home use thou, i tried .9mm wire and did not like what i was doing, Ian from Innisfail told me to get 1mm and i find works much better, welding the things is not the hard part, getting the settings right takes a bit to ajust, as Mark said above post, i can have a chat to a few guys that might help one out a bit, speak to you tomorrow

Daz

[Wahoo]

ohh, also you can get all sorts of grade in the ally wire, i found some work well and some dont


Daz

[Ally Jack]

fnq,

go for the first unit with the traveller, it's a bigger unit yes but will be far better in the long run, esp. if you are doing a bit of work in the boat.

Also speak to Owen on here, he works for a welding supply company and knows his stuff.

Ally welding isn't that hard and your doing it for yourself, so have some fun with it and you'll learn enough along the way with trial and error

Ally Jack

[FNQCairns]

Thanks again for the replies, I am near settled on the BOC250r thanks to the replies but still doing more research and have since found a few others that sort of compare to the boc250c (cheaper but not much really), a Jasic 250 inverter, token tools 240 , Unimig 240.

Sunnycoastmark, you could well be right in the end so I need to buy well, save some money/break even on a few simple jobs learn all I can from that experience then either go harder or if it all turnes to pot I am sure a nice bloke will happily cart my hardly used good quality mig away in the back of his ute for a fair price in 6 months time...thinking I cannot loose if I count the experience gained, i have been considering this purchase for years.

cheers fnq

[welder]

Remember, you can alway turn the AMPS down but you can't turn them UP on a little machine.

For 8 MM Plate you will need a power source that will nail 300 to 400 AMPS . There are no cheap way to weld Alloy [ M.I.G. or T.I.G ]

One does not learn to weld Alloy in a day or two , the skill level it takes is learned over years .

As one poster said above , the hard earned cash you would spend on ALL the toys you need to do the job would go a Looooong way at a Good Fabricators shop.

If you have the Money and the time , Hammer down and Get-R-Done.

You might also look at a welding school of some type to see and learn what you will need [ Equipment/skills ]

[MJBARTZY]

250boc is the go and is a re-badged kempi ,without going into too much detail welding ally with tig is extremly slow this is why it is mainly used on smaller jobs.
anything less of 250 amps on a 240 volt machine would be difficult to get the right penatration as ally ,believe it or not does require more amps to weld than mild sheet steel .if you want to send me a pm i can give you whatever info i can help you with ,i'm a boilermaker / welder and have built my own boat as well as several others and have the 250boc/kempy at home as well as 8 x wia's,12 lincoln's and a couple of esab's.
Don't blow ya doe on something you will struggle with!

[MJBARTZY]

daz is spot on by the way

[aussie_true_blue]

Don't touch the Jasic they are really chinese crap and the arc characteristics are really unstable

[fishing111]

Little off topic but just a quick question, are Fisher, Riptide, Barcrusher boats etc, TIG welded and Telwater/Pressed boats MIG welded? Only reason I ask is that the Plate boats mentioned have nice smooth shiny weld's and the pressed seem to have a slight brown burntish tinge and not as uniform in their appearance.Also which of the 2 formats gives a stronger weld (MIG?TIG)?

[oldboot]

I doubt that anyone would tig weld a whole boat............I recon it probably comes down to skill and talent.... and possibly better machines.

cheers

[finga]

I doubt that anyone would tig weld a whole boat............I recon it probably comes down to skill and talent.... and possibly better machines.

cheers
And the use of better, thicker materials is a big factor too

[boatie_72]

Both pressed and plate boats are Mig welded. Tig is used around rails, to repair blow holes, and other finishing areas. As someone else said the quality of the weld comes down to the thickness of the sheets and the welder doing the job.

Also I would recommend using 1.2 aluminium wire. With a 1.2 AL tip. Boc wire is fine in 5356 grade.

[Matt_F]

I have another question to throw into the mix (I'm keen and inexperienced also).

Do you have to match the grade of wire with the grade of alloy you are welding? Also, are the softer grades of wire harder to weld with than the harder (higher tensile) grades?

[foxx510]

Don't get a Unimig. They are really poorly built machines. I own one, so I know. My mate owns one too, it's blown up about 4 times now.

[FNQCairns]

Update on where I am at, might one day help someone from not quite going through what i am or al least shorten it...ATM either the lincoln 250 or again the BOC 250, the bloke who sells the Lincoln has advised me that the competitions boc/kemmpi due to better wire control will be a better unit for aluminium welding overall, the lincoln is 3 or so % cheaper.

I spent hours last night researching the Jasic right back to who manufactures it in China...the warrenty is only 1 year, it is almost half the price but doesn't have the wire control (which seems to be almost a constant on the cheaper units from any manufacturer) to make it a great choice for aluminium. Still it seems to be a well made unit and if I was welding steel mostly it would probably be my choice.

The WIA 256 is the best of all within my criteria but it is 4k+.

All of the above is from me...someone who has never welded Alum so make of it what you will.

Still chasing up the weldmaster and unimig equivalents to above.

cheers fnq

[Owen]

FNQ,
If you want to give me a ring on 0414458592 during business hours I'm happy to give you an honest appraisal of the machines you are considering.
I spent a good many years with my head in a bucket welding ally and now sell welders for a living.
There would be little point buying one from me due to the freight costs, but I can tell you what a fair price is and what you should be looking for.

I would recommend you seriously consider what you plan to do with this equipment.
Despite what has been said, welding in general and welding aluminium in particular is NOT easy.
If it was, there would be no need for an apprenticeship.
If you are going to build a boat or trailer, you will be betting your life and those of any passenger or future owners on your ability.
There is a BIG difference between melting some metal and knowing what you are doing.

It is very difficult to judge the potential of a machine for use on aluminium from the specs alone. Arc characteristics play a huge part and you won't know that until you run it. In fact, YOU probably won't know it at all, because you don't have the experience to know the difference. That is not a criticism or meant in a smart arsed way. The fact is that I could baffle you with so much bullshit as to make any machine sound good.

I won't discuss brand specifics in a public forum, but I would recommend you consider the following attributes.

1: Duty cycle - The higher the better. This is more important than peak amps. On a 250-260 amp machine you should be looking for about 60% duty cycle @ 240 amps. There are 240+ amp machines out there with duty cycles LOWER than other 190 amp machines.
2: Primary current draw. Especially important in rural areas with poor power. IF you can't feed the juice in then you can't get the rated output at the gun. Some machines draw as much as 50 amps. Read the fine print!
3: Ability to burn 1.0-1.2mm wire in SPRAY TRANSFER mode. You will be told that you can run 0.9mm wire no problems, but it is basically bullshit. It's too thin and too soft for reliable feeding. Spray transfer is when the wire starts melting BEFOR it hits the weld pool due to inductance. Many cheaper machines will only deliver dip transfer. Useable, but not ideal for aluminium.
4: Feed roller setup. In general the larger the diameter of the drive rollers, the better. You will be told you need a 4 roller drive setup, but that is not necessarilly true. In fact SOME 4 roller drive systems do not allow you to ruduce tension enough to allow the wire to slip if you have a burnback at the tip. I'd rather have two 40mm drive rollers than four 30mm (or less) units. The drive rollers should ALL be driven and should have U groove or trapezoid rollers available. V groove rollers will shave wire and cause feed problems.
5: The gun should be of INDUSTRIAL quality and should have a teflon or carbon liner fitted and a brass/copper neck liner. I usually replace the guide tubes with carbon as well. The use of the brass neck liner is critical if you go for an all teflon/carbon setup. Typically you use oversized tips for alumnium. i.e. on 1.2mm wire, the tip will have a 1.4mm hole. Without the brass neck liner, the only place for the current to transfer from the gun cable to th ewire (and ultimately the job) is through the tip. If the tip is oversized, this only happens as the wire touches each side. The result is unstable arc and burnbacks. If you use a brass neck liner, the current is also transfered through the liner as the wire goes around the gooseneck.
5: Make sure that spare parts are readily available from a wide range of outlets. Stick to MIG guns that use parts like Tweco, Binzel, Kemppi, Bernard etc. Another excellent brand is OTC, but many places won't have parts, so if you burn out your last tip on saturday morning, you're ratshit.
6: What are the qualifications of the bloke trying to sell you the machine?
IS he/she a welder? What have they welded? ... I constantly see fully qualified boilermakers that have no clue on ally because they've never seen it ourside TAFE. Ask them why they are trying to sell one machine over another. Ask for specifics! Ask them to DEMONSTRATE the difference.
7: If your the kind of guy that wants to screw every last cent from a salesman, skip #6. Go buy a machine from a hardware store and get the service, advice & backup you want to pay for ;-)

[Owen]

I have another question to throw into the mix (I'm keen and inexperienced also).

Do you have to match the grade of wire with the grade of alloy you are welding? Also, are the softer grades of wire harder to weld with than the harder (higher tensile) grades?


Every grade of metal has a recommended filler wire to use.

In REALLY simple terms, you will typically use 5356 or 5183 grade filler on a boat. (5% & 10% magnesium respectively)
The boat will have been made from anything from 5083 plate to 6063 in the extrusions.
5356 is the most common general purpose grade, with 5183 being used mainly in the marine industry.

The two other common fillers 4043 & 4047 contain 5% and 7-10% silicon respectively. These are typically not used for MIG welding on boats, but MAY be used for TIG welding on 6061 or the more common 6063 grade extrusions. They are also more suitable for castings and for items that will be anodised as they colour match better.

The 40** series wires are significantly softer and harder to feed reliably in a MIG.

[FNQCairns]

Thanks Owen, some of what you wrote is over my head for the moment but should become clear a bit later so will make a good reference, cheers, I cannot see myself doing any structural aluminium welding, later who knows will deal with it then.

I think I have made my mind up and will go with the BOC, still have a couple of prices to come in though.

Within my criteria only it's real hard to find any machine that has a 60% duty cycle at 240 amps due i guess to them not being 3 phase..I dunno, I did see a cheap Chinese inverter with a 60% duty cycle...did i miss a brand?? all that I found are 30 or 35%.

If you are still on line can you list a brand that is at 60%? I had planed to order tomorrow morning.

BTW what happens if a person uses the 10% magnesium wire on a boat made out of 5% magnesium sheet or the converse??

cheers and thanks for the detail.

fnq

PS yes I dreamt about being that bloke :) but up here we are almost blessed to be allowed to buy product of the floor......bit of a different set of rules than when i lived in the big smoke.

[Owen]

Duty Cycles:

Duty cycles are quoted as a percentage of time you can run the thing at a certain amperage (usually over a 10 minute cycle).
The higher the amps quoted the lower the duty cycle, so th esame machine has many duty cycles, it depends on the amperage the manufacturer is quoting. As one goes up, bring the other down.

Lincoln 255 is 30% @ 255 amps, 60% @ 180amps, 100% @ 140 amps
WIA Weldmatic 256 duty cycle is 25% @ 250 amps. I'd guess somewhere around 60% @ 180 amps.
BOC 250 (made by kemppi) is 30% @ 250amps
Migomag 260 is 60% @ 230 amps, I'd guess around 30-40% @ 260 amps

If you are only going to use casually (as opposed to full production work) then you won't overstress any of these.

Some of the others you mentioned would be under powered in my opinion.

If you are only going to do light work and the occasional ally work up to say 4-5mm then you may consider the Lincoln 180C with the optional spool gun.
I wouldn't build a boat with one, but a nice machine for the average punter.

[Owen]

BTW what happens if a person uses the 10% magnesium wire on a boat made out of 5% magnesium sheet or the converse??


Within the range of commonly available marine alloys, bugger all.
Filler metals rarely match the chemical composition of the parent metal. They are blended to provide optimum strength of weld and useability.

[FNQCairns]

Thanks again Owen, I got a price today today on the 260 Migomag, their website didn't list a duty cycle that I could found, it's pretty impressive but the closest supplier is hundreds of km away and the price was $3300+freight :(

The WIA was quoted to me as being over 4k.

Seems that for every step up just add around $500.

Will look at that Lincoln before I commit further.

cheers fnq

[Owen]

As I said,
Arc charecteristics are paramount.
ASK FOR A DEMO!
If they can't show you a quality weld then don't buy it.
My policy is to weld test every machine that goes out anyway, so it should be no problem to the seller if you are not tyre kicking or trying to screw an unrealistic price.

[FNQCairns]

Ok sounds good so how do I achieve that? I do not know a good weld from a great weld, I can pick pigeon poop a mile away because it stares me in the face on my professionally built boat.

I don't know anyone up here now that can weld well a couple of blokes in Brisbane but that's no help.

Because I am not in a rush to actually weld something at home i was planing on just buying the unit then storing it while the sticker and savings account shock dissipated somewhat then head in for all the other bits I need to start to weld aluminium...not a good idea?? should I reasonably expect this seller who by the way has none in stock ATM to test it for me fully setup? I suspect i have bucklys of getting him to order it without me putting all of my money on the table first...this is typical up here.

cheers fnq

[Owen]

No, if it's a non-stock line then you can't expect him to get one in on spec.
You'll have to work on the figures alone.
You CAN expect it to be weld tested before you take delivery.



At the end of the day, if you stick to one of the big name brands, you usually won't buy a BAD machine, but you may not buy the BEST machine for your requirements.

[FNQCairns]

No, if it's a non-stock line then you can't expect him to get one in on spec.
You'll have to work on the figures alone.
You CAN expect it to be weld tested before you take delivery.



At the end of the day, if you stick to one of the big name brands, you usually won't buy a BAD machine, but you may not buy the BEST machine for your requirements.

Ok thanks again Owen, its from BOC themselves, will get the unit ready to go and push for a test of the unit first.

Does sound the most sensible course,

Have given up on knowing I am getting the best unit for my money due to a serious lack of hands on qualification, it's all good so far everyone here and around the net who has owned the unit has given good reports and the seller is local.

Thanks again for the detail, plan now is to be welding aircraft wings back on by the end of the weekend:-X:-[;D

cheers fnq

[Matt_F]

Thanks for the info Owen.

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Scott,
So - $2000 has turned into $4000 and you haven't even touched the consumables yet;D

There used to be a DIY workshop in Portsmith or Bungalow where a guy would hire out his fully equipped workshop to who ever. I don't know if it is still there. If it is - could be an option to try out a couple of Migs with Ally and see how you go.

I think it was near the showgrounds somewhere.

Mark

[FNQCairns]

Hey Mark I think that place is closed public liability possibly, i dunno but it's a shame.

Yeah the price now remains unfortunate, it's now or never, just do it, only live once, cannot take it with you, it's for the boat, you never know unless you try..........:)

cheers fnq

[battleon]

Hi Guys,
What a great thread, lots of info.

I am also interested in upgrading my Mig and have a couple of questions for those more educated in this area than me. Sorry FNQ dont want to hijack your thread but the questions may be of interest to you also.

I have a Cig 195 but have only ever done mild steel welding with it just as a hobby welder more than anything ie some trailer work, general fabrication etc.

What would be a good machine to upgrade to that can do both steel and Alloy. Apart from wire I imagine you would have to change gas or is there one these days that will do both? Would the rollers also need changing when going from steel to alloy?

I have a budget around 4k and would prefer single phase with a traveller. Could I get something decent for this price? I wont be boat building just general aluminium and steel.

Thanks

[FNQCairns]

Hi Guys,
What a great thread, lots of info.

I am also interested in upgrading my Mig and have a couple of questions for those more educated in this area than me. Sorry FNQ dont want to hijack your thread but the questions may be of interest to you also.

I have a Cig 195 but have only ever done mild steel welding with it just as a hobby welder more than anything ie some trailer work, general fabrication etc.

What would be a good machine to upgrade to that can do both steel and Alloy. Apart from wire I imagine you would have to change gas or is there one these days that will do both? Would the rollers also need changing when going from steel to alloy?

I have a budget around 4k and would prefer single phase with a traveller. Could I get something decent for this price? I wont be boat building just general aluminium and steel.

Thanks

Hi mate, if you have read the above you know where my advice is coming from.

After all the research lately my favourite is the Migomag 260 single phase at $3300 I think, it will do all you could ever need or is fully possible on single phase.

The next up on price and greatness (apparently) is the WIA 256 at 4k+ i understand but I seriouly do not know where the extra in price comes from, i would still buy the Migomag.

I have now settled on the BOC as it is approx $500 cheaper than the Migomag and the closest Migo dealer is many hundreds of km away + i am having all sorts of trouble getting the BOC past the inhouse accountant as it is 1k more than I origianlly said:(

You will use argon gas for both...gee it is expensive stuff!

Anything else basic let me know, I have found that a few hours on youtube makes a great tutorial.

Another is the Lincoln 250 but I think? it only comes with a 4m hosr to gun and to downgrade to the 3m (better length for alum) is at full cost to the purchaser so in the end the final quote got pretty silly.

cheers fnq

[battleon]

Thanks FNQ

I shall have a look at the models you suggest.

So what do they slug you for Argon these days? My Migshield is around $100 for a DL size to fill plus rental of course.

Cheers

[sheridan]

I wouldn't suggest using argon to weld mild steel you would have to crank your heat up because argon doesn't weld as hot as corgon and there is a chance your weld will break while i have used it i don't recommend it . I use argon for stainless & aluminium & corgon for mild steel.

Geoff

[Wahoo]

Scott, did you price the WIA 215 at all??

Daz

[FNQCairns]

Daz no i didn't come across them in any ones lineup, they may not be sold anymore?

cheers fnq

[FNQCairns]

Thanks FNQ

I shall have a look at the models you suggest.

So what do they slug you for Argon these days? My Migshield is around $100 for a DL size to fill plus rental of course.

Cheers


A little over $100 (fill only)for the small knee high bottle (D?) From what Sheridan says it looks like we will sooner or later need 2 separate gas bottles and all that entails:(, good reason for me to stay with stick for steel work.

cheers fnq

[sheridan]

Hi FNQ another option is use argon for ally & stainless and use Flux core wire that is gasless wire for mild steel Wire cost about the same' only thing is you have to change the polarity of your welder which is simple just follow instructions on your welder also flux core wire is better to weld galvonised steel .Its is also better to weld some hardener steel especially if it contains a lot of phosphorus also good to weld zinconeal .

Geoff

[Owen]

The gas you use depends on the process you are using and the materials you are welding.
The average punter could probably get away with two mixes, but for optimum results you may need three.
Flux cored wires may be gas shielded or gasless, but the home user is unlikely to use gas shielded flux cored wire as they are meant for heavier sections and high deposition.

For MIG process.

Mild Steel (solid wire - ER70S6) - 5-16% Co2, 2-3% Oxygen, Balance Argon
Mild Steel (Flux cored wire E71T1) - 18-25% Co2 - Balance Argon
Aluminium - 100% Argon
Common stainless (316, 304 etc) - 2-3% Oxygen, Balance Argon or 2-3% Co2, Balance argon


TIG Process
For most common metals 100% Argon is used.

Using the wrong mixture can cause many weld defects such as excess spatter, cracking, "ropey" or cold welds etc.

Gasless wires are an option on mild steel, but you pay a heavy premium for them. If you use more than a few rolls a year, you will exceed the cost of the gas & rental.
In general you will achieve better results easier using a gas shielded wire.

Don't automatically assume that a smaller bottle of gas is cheaper.
Check the cost of all sizes and work out a cubic metre rate. You may be surprised.

[FNQCairns]

Thanks all for the replies, this morning I brought a new BOC 250r home, price was $2750 inc GST (unit only).

It's straight from the crate ATM, needs a plug fitted and all of the correct stuff to convert it over to aluminium only. Will start in that direction next weekend.

Thanks again all for the advice.

cheers fnq

[suzygs1000]

Hi, FNQ,

I have a Cigweld Transmig 250 amp with remote that I purchased three years ago for $2500.

It is fitted with teflon liner and u-groove ally roller for feed.

I have built one 6 metre boat with it, but must admit that I have never used it on ally thicker than 8mm.

It is in great condition, and still has heaps of 1.2mm ally wire with it.

I am considering selling it as I also have an old 240amp mig for general use.

Let me know if you're interested, probably let it go for $1500.

Dave.

[suzygs1000]

Sorry, Scott,

Didn't read your last post before I posted that.

Maybe someone else is interested? I live in Ingham.

Dave.

[FNQCairns]

"Missed it by that much" to quote Maxwell Smart, no worries someone might see this and snap it up Dave, I certainly would have thought seriously about it.... no way am I telling my wife:)

cheers fnq