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Whale Bone
29-07-2009, 08:21 PM
Hi all,
Just been wondering lately about the effect the moon has on fishing for impoundment barra. Has any one had more success on a specific moon phase. Would it be worth planning a trip to Awoonga or Mondy from the sunny coast based on the moon?
Cheers
Dougy

NAGG
29-07-2009, 08:39 PM
Its contentious ...... but from a personal perspective - i've had good results around a full moon period with a bite on moonrise

Chris

setthehook
29-07-2009, 08:44 PM
I have had awsome action the entire phase....but i do like the dark... I certainly dont revolve my trips around it unless im keen for night fishing and a bit of light too see what im doing.I follow the weather more than the moon.

Steve B
29-07-2009, 08:45 PM
Dougy,

YES..I have found it depends on when you want to fish.

New moon. Lead up days and 3 days after new moon, day fishing has been more productive for me in the day time.

Full moon, leadup always good, and a couple of days after seems better again, particualrly after dark, and if the moon rises around about dusk...ye ha. surface is good after the full moon..not sure why.

Peak bite period the lunar tables talk about have worked for me over the years too. Many out there think its a load of c$%p but, I have proved to myself they work on countless occassions, no matter what time of day....thats the only proof I need.

Just from my notes over last 3 years...and general remembering from 4 years before that with regards to impounments anyway.

Steve

BR65
29-07-2009, 08:55 PM
Dont base ya trip on it mate, it will limit the number of trips you do, but personally, I reckon theres a distinct activity increase tied to moon phase, both new and full.
It aint the be all and end all, but then again, neither is water temp, wind direction, lure brand/color, boat activity, angler skill level etc etc etc, its just another thing to ponder.

vet
29-07-2009, 08:57 PM
I agree entirely with steve b. I always find that barra bite better when the moon is up, so night fishing around the full moon. afternoon and into the night on the lead up to the full moon. mornings around the new moon as the moon rises in the morning, and a week after the full moon you need to fish from midnight onwards. ie when the moon is in the sky the barra bite better. If the weather is bad though it doesn't make much difference what the moon is doing.
cheers, scott

SeekingBarradise
30-07-2009, 12:03 PM
Great thread Question Dougy.

Confusion!!! Yes plenty of that going around if you have read the last 2 articles regarding barra fishing and moon phases in magazines over the last 12 months.

One mag would have you fishing all 24 hours in the day so of course you will eventually catch fish. JM has had a laugh with me around the campfire at times on the subject, the conversation sorta went like this.

Example

Fish the hour before moon up then fish another few hours till moon is quarter up.

Then fish a couple of hours either side of moon overhead.
Then fish a couple of hours either side of moon down.

Then fish a couple of hours either side of sun up.
Then fish a couple of hours either side of sun down.

Then fish a couple of hours either side of the tide coming in.
Then fish a couple of hours either side of the tide turning to run out.
Then fish the bottom of the tide.

Well that just about takes up a day doesn't it?

Hence the confusion. Not a lot of real straight shooting data over hundreds of fish logged in bar graph format is there?

Then conjecture rules the roost and proven info doesn't. This info spreads into the mainstream like water from the floodplains to Lake Ayre. All of a sudden you find yourself leaning on a boat or tackle shop counter having this conversation with someone in a caravan park or tackle shop.
This completes the current full cycle.

Result: The whole industry hears this yarn, and repeats it time and time again as the major fish catching factor, along with lure colour, this years summer fashion colour is green...

I reckon as the moon is very visible it actually forces us to remember a point in time e.g. a capture when the moon was overhead etc as it's a visible icon that we can't miss. It kinda makes us pay attention. ( To one observation). E.G do you remember where you were when you first head or saw that John Wayne died, Elvis, Dianna or where you were at a point in time for New Years 2000 or the 9/11 news and so on.

Same goes when you cast for ages then get a adrenalin rush with a barra capture after you were paying attention to where the moon was. The point is that we were paying attention & noted it's position.

But we might have missed better clues we didn't pick up as easily. However they may have more relevance to catching barra. E.g. Water: What it's doing, sounder,wind, bait, last 3-7 day weather cycle and so on. Many plan a trip around a moon, but how many around no moon, average weather, poor weather to collect data. The fish could be biting then as well or we could trigger them to bite, just like in cold weather etc.

No doubt moons will play a part in catching fish. Morso in some fisheries than others e.g. estuaries. With impoundments i'd suggest travelling anglers just go fishing when you can mate & keep an eye out for a good weather window. :)

Good luck mate give em heaps.
Cheers Lyndon.

SeekingBarradise
30-07-2009, 12:32 PM
Comparison

Recent History: Let's look at another well printed part of impoundment barra fishing. Water temps. They are right up there with the moons i reckon with regards to impoundment barra talk. Why? Well like JM & i said somewhere " They are easy to see like the cricket score in the corner of the tv/sounder". Visually easy to see.


Not So Long Ago
Fish caught in 14.9 degrees by Johnny Mitchell blew the old theory of
"Hang your rods up when the water gets below 27 degrees". It wasn't that long ago i read that one. Does anyone remember this one? Anyone spotted the guy who has changed in this area as a result of Central Qld Barra captures. Does anyone else take note of this stuff?:D

Now you have northern based business advertising that they are catching fish in winter as well now. Yet i had a guide tell me that fishing for barra in winter up north is like going fishing for apples when it's orange season. This happened only a few days ago. He had no less than 200+ wild rivers, dams and billablongs within a couple of hours drive to choose from when targeting barra. Interesting stuff hey? If we listened to this we wouldn't go fishing for barra for 10 months of the year down here.



More Recent History
Awoonga caravan park reported no fish caught for months in winter only a few years back (*Exceptions). Then all of a sudden there were fish caught in winter at 24 degrees, then 20 then 19,18,17 wow how low could one go. Then in the worst winter in history (records set) barra were caught in 14.9 when fish were kicking the bucket in cold water.

Yet some were still able to be caught by people not listening to the mainsteam. If steve B listened to this he would have never caught Homer and Homers cousin, fish of a lifetime. Scotty would have never caught Barry the 35kg Barra and so on.
Note: Some Tinaroo blokes fished the cold of winter for Impoundment Barra a decade or so ago. Jack Leighton and co etc.
E.g. People thinking & experimenting for themselves.

The Result: There are now a couple of totally different types of writers in the Barra Scene. I reckon some fell off the back of the knowledge truck and will never catchup. The up to date mob are leaving dust in their trail. The net has accelerated this. Those not on the net at times are getting left behind even quicker. Some in The magazine world are facing interesting times ahead.

The same goes for moons. First people said we should only go fishing on full moon, then fish were caught on all phases of the moon like blackouts that were so dark they were described as " 1 O'clock, No moon, Black Cat in a Wheelie Bin". Now that's dark. Then fish were caught in the First Quarter, new, 3/4 and so on. You only had to look at the boat ramps of Mondy & Awoonga in the past to see the traffic peak on the full moon where the fish were highly pressured by the full mooners migrating like tradies to picture mags & coffee breakers, manscapers to bodyshops and blokes that peaked in high school to internet sites. :)

Or some blokes that peaked in primary school and were never good at any sport so they migrated to the dark side of egomaniac barra bench press comps against everyone on a 1-up-man-ship-career path, with self promoted puffer fish style tyre pumping posts & articles by kiss ass penners (not writers) seeking freebies. Some are known as Minature Lure Signers.

Sadly this sprays the confusion back on the average Joe & Jill (Readers) in the caravan park just wanting to catch a barra, but they end up chasing Wally the Wild Woodduck around the lake while casting at Terry The Teenage Ninja Turtle when they are actually hunting Barry The Barra. A few other factors might be important to observe for success, Location, held up water, water currents, layout of land, wind direction & variation, temp variance, weather cycle variation, weed/structure proximity, depth of water and so on e.g. Nothing much hey, just the Why?, When? and Where? of the matter.



I reckon an open book is a good way to go for impoundment barra regarding moons as the printed impoundment barra research is probably flat out hitting 1% of capacity yet. A lot of research is just not printed yet. Especially when you consider warm and cold water theories of recent times & how at times they have been turned on their head. For example many in SEQ thought they had bass mastered and that this would transfer to smashing barra but this has no happened either.

Net Help: A few blokes like Steve, Trev & Scott notice the moon helps at times so pm them, their feedback is valuable. I see they have already helped out on this thread. Some Mag Aritcles at the moment just confuse us all. Research or study levels released in the future will shed more light, but don't expect them to be free as it could be a lifetimes work for someone. This stuff has and is being documented, and will continue to be collected well in to the future.


As a travelling angler just go when you can mate, don't post-pone your trip just to wait for a moon phase. If you are a local then a quick trip for a 2 hour moon cycle session is available as an option every single day of the week all year round, but how many locals living near barra dams spend more time on the net than on their dam???. Good weather windows would be a good focus point for a travelling anglers trip. There might just be a good one here now and a good one coming:)

Hope this adds a bit of food for thought with a thinking type of reply.
Good luck mate have a great trip.
Cheers Lyndon.:)

SeekingBarradise
30-07-2009, 01:25 PM
Moons & Impoundments

A plus for moons is that some insects time their hatching or migration with particular moons which can attract baitfish to the surface to feed. I've seen this happen on the water while barra fishing but there were so many baitfish that our lures were 1 dinner amongst a million baitfish.

Another plus is that it gives us light to see better at night, especially in heavy timber or when casting at weed etc. Accuracy makes for a more pleasant outing.

Another research plus has been the increase in guiding business which has resulted in guides fishing 365 days a year for barra on impoundments. There is always one out there with clients fishing in all different moon phases & getting results. Then that info filtered down to the rest of the industry and gave us hope.

Tournaments have to get a congratulations here as well for testing anglers in all different time zones and moon phases, and 99% of the time someone always catches a bag of fish on what we thought was an impossible. Guides do the same.

Chris: Barra always biting like that on the full moon in impoundments would have 200 plus trailers at our barra dams each full moon, but it hasn't been happening. So all my eggs in the moonshine basket might be a tad shaky, no matter if it was a guide triggering the fish.


Reality Today: Guides don't plan their trips just on the moons, or they would have everyone there on the same day fishing out of the HMAS Yabbie From The Flight Deck. They go fishing daily to catch fish, they don't wait. To base a trip on only 1 factor, that being moon phase which is the original question, is a bit risky. In fact in my diary i have recorded this as one of the biggest differences between some northern anglers and many of the Qld Impoundment Anglers. I've met a lot of people that wait for tides & moons up north, yet down here in the Impoundment scene we just get up and go fishing no matter what the date or time as we have to catch fish right now. 2 different evolutions going down different paths with a few in between sitting on the fence. It will be interesting where all this ends up with regards to barra information to help the reader.

Anyone really interested in going barra fishing should read this from top to bottom, as it might just show a bigger picture and put the moon in perspective.
http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,3730.0.html

Cheers Lyndon.:D

NAGG
30-07-2009, 02:18 PM
That is one significant benefit of a full moon period - Insect activity & concentrations of baitfish that are attracted to the feeding frenzy ........ Its like a dinner bell being rung for the barra -
As for a lure being 1 dinner out of a million ....... well thats where the skill of the angler comes in ;) - A walked surface lure or blooped popper ...... chk chk BOOM;D

Chris

Steve B
30-07-2009, 04:43 PM
Thanks Lyndon...great read as usual. lots of stuff to think about.

I have found there are subtle changes in the air, wind direction, water movements and a 'feel' I get, just prior as a 'hot bite' period occours...its weird, but I can feel it, more often than not...there are distinct water activity that occours, be it bait or movement....but it happens and its too weird to explain. It is the same for bass hot bites too. I never (not over past years anyway) deleiberatly check the moon phase prior to heading fishing..I fish when I can. BUT I always compare active periods, even a bite, or active bait that wasnt active before, to the moon and TIDE charts. I have noticed definate correlations between certain phases and fish....particularly associated with tide changes!

As everyone said, its 1 peice in the mega puzzle, but I think its a big one. to me it is anyway.

Steve

A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE
30-07-2009, 05:37 PM
Nagg, but what about a cloudy night that shelters the moon light, or a cold crappy southerly that chills and bites at the water,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you won't have no hot chk chk boom then will you?!?...........................no matter your surface skills.
JM

....but it happens and its too weird to explain.
Steve,, I'm laughing with you for saying that- (in a nice way.) :)
Jump in my shoes for a day and now try to explain the things I see every year; try to explain all that to the average Aussie angler. If you have trouble explaining your own 'feelings', what hope have I got, really? :-/
JM


I like this thread, the info from Lyndon is bloody beneficial, a golden egg. This is maybe the time where many anglers 'click' to the in depth world of lake barramundi. If members didn't read Lyndon's 3 posts, above, I suggest you do.

Moons and Tides- is anyone here really that definite about their apparent patterns on tide changes, moon phases and the like to lay their weekly wage on it and still think they'll win their money back? Any takers?
I've said this a million times- the weather is way more of a governing force than any of the above. True, each variable plays their roll in creating a scenario, but the number of scenarios that will present opportunities for us to get barra to bite lures is as long as your arm. It cannot be desrcibed here, it won't be digested by all on here and it will certainly be wasted time and effort on here due to the complexity and hours/days/months needed to get a basic design layout.
All I can say is ' go fishing', pick a date, and go! It's been proven as a 365 day fishery.
JM

NAGG
30-07-2009, 05:58 PM
Johnny - No arguement here - When the weather goes against you - You wont get that insect activity & the knock on effect ...... so no chk chk boom :( .


Lyndon: We do get to see a lot of boats fishing around the full moon period - Certainly once we get to October & on through to May ......... A lot of Nomads & others trolling the main basin . Those with a little more go in them will see themselves up the back of some quiet part of the dam somewhere ....... doing their thing & catching fish !

Without a doubt ..... the weather ( +lead up weather) will play a much bigger part than a moon phase alone.
Sure dont hang your hat on the moon phase thing

However ...... being on the water on nice warm evening ( calm & clear conditions) with a rising moon ........ MAAAGNIFICENT!!!

Chris

Whale Bone
30-07-2009, 07:26 PM
Thank you to everyone for alot on info. We are just new to barra fishing and anything we find out is helping. I guess the best way for us to form our own opinions is to reord the copious amounts of data gathered from a day on a barra impoundment. We will be up at awoonga again soon, with a stop in at monduran on the way home. Cat wait!!!!
Thanks again,
Dougy

Steve B
30-07-2009, 09:00 PM
Nagg, but what about a cloudy night that shelters the moon light, or a cold crappy southerly that chills and bites at the water,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you won't have no hot chk chk boom then will you?!?...........................no matter your surface skills.
JM

....but it happens and its too weird to explain.
Steve,, I'm laughing with you for saying that- (in a nice way.) :)
Jump in my shoes for a day and now try to explain the things I see every year; try to explain all that to the average Aussie angler. If you have trouble explaining your own 'feelings', what hope have I got, really? :-/
JM


I like this thread, the info from Lyndon is bloody beneficial, a golden egg. This is maybe the time where many anglers 'click' to the in depth world of lake barramundi. If members didn't read Lyndon's 3 posts, above, I suggest you do.

Moons and Tides- is anyone here really that definite about their apparent patterns on tide changes, moon phases and the like to lay their weekly wage on it and still think they'll win their money back? Any takers?
I've said this a million times- the weather is way more of a governing force than any of the above. True, each variable plays their roll in creating a scenario, but the number of scenarios that will present opportunities for us to get barra to bite lures is as long as your arm. It cannot be desrcibed here, it won't be digested by all on here and it will certainly be wasted time and effort on here due to the complexity and hours/days/months needed to get a basic design layout.
All I can say is ' go fishing', pick a date, and go! It's been proven as a 365 day fishery.
JM

I thought you would like that technical description.;);D
I have only been noting data on weather patterns on each given fishing day being wind direction, speed, water temps, moon phase, fish caught/hooked with times, lures used and area of the dam vs wind....its a millionth of your data but it has given me some basic theories to work on at times......but my wage doesnt depend on it...thankfully.

cheers Steve

SeekingBarradise
31-07-2009, 08:11 AM
However ...... being on the water on nice warm evening ( calm & clear conditions) with a rising moon ........ MAAAGNIFICENT!!!

Chris[/quote]


Chris i will actually agree with you on something for the first time in ages:D
A slow hot wind from the North with the sun fanning a orange brush over the horizon, then over your shoulder the moon rises and extends a dull light over the landscape that is so still you can hear a mozzie 500m away. The environment has a deep earthy smell which triggers memories from way back.

Wow what a time to be on the water.

I remember many special sessions on barra lakes, even when i didn't catch fish, i still really enjoyed the moment. Pre-Barra-Boom we had great sessions, but stopped fishing a lot of full or new moons when the crowds hit the Barra dams (No serenity there).

Notes From A Full Moon Trip.

One thing i noted on un-pressured lakes was that we got a so called moon/dusk bite on Full & New moon. But we also got these bites at other times. Thiss bite did coincide with a lake rising 12ft in to grassy areas where the fish were hunting on dusk.

The bite got later each night by about 30-45mins and at times the bite only came on for 30 mins then we got nothing for hours. The moon wasn't the only factor. Water rose and the fish were hunting in the new shallows, it was very hot with angry heat from the North, Fishery was un-pressured, the bite was bigger on dusk, we had stable weather for days, we also caught fish in the mid morning and dug fish out sitting hard against a deep edge under lillies etc in the mid arvo so fish were still caught in all time periods including 10pm at night off the bank.
We fished most hours of the day and rested out of the heat in the mid morning to mid arvo period.

Could be something, could be nothing but lately i haven't noticed too many sessions like this on highly pressured dams with smart fish.

Cheers Lyndon:)

NAGG
31-07-2009, 09:45 AM
However ...... being on the water on nice warm evening ( calm & clear conditions) with a rising moon ........ MAAAGNIFICENT!!!

Chris


Chris i will actually agree with you on something for the first time in ages:D
A slow hot wind from the North with the sun fanning a orange brush over the horizon, then over your shoulder the moon rises and extends a dull light over the landscape that is so still you can hear a mozzie 500m away. The environment has a deep earthy smell which triggers memories from way back.

Wow what a time to be on the water.

I remember many special sessions on barra lakes, even when i didn't catch fish, i still really enjoyed the moment. Pre-Barra-Boom we had great sessions, but stopped fishing a lot of full or new moons when the crowds hit the Barra dams (No serenity there).

Notes From A Full Moon Trip.

One thing i noted on un-pressured lakes was that we got a so called moon/dusk bite on Full & New moon. But we also got these bites at other times. Thiss bite did coincide with a lake rising 12ft in to grassy areas where the fish were hunting on dusk.

The bite got later each night by about 30-45mins and at times the bite only came on for 30 mins then we got nothing for hours. The moon wasn't the only factor. Water rose and the fish were hunting in the new shallows, it was very hot with angry heat from the North, Fishery was un-pressured, the bite was bigger on dusk, we had stable weather for days, we also caught fish in the mid morning and dug fish out sitting hard against a deep edge under lillies etc in the mid arvo so fish were still caught in all time periods including 10pm at night off the bank.
We fished most hours of the day and rested out of the heat in the mid morning to mid arvo period.

Could be something, could be nothing but lately i haven't noticed too many sessions like this on highly pressured dams with smart fish.

Cheers Lyndon:)[/quote]

holy shite ...... we cant have agreeance - it goes against the grain ;)

Lyndon .... seriously though - Over the last year I've made 3 trips to impoundments that were organised around the full moon periods - Everyone proved successful in my eyes with several fish landed during a session
Sept 08 ( mondy muster trip 3 evenings with multiple captures , hook ups ) , Teemburra (ABT Prefish with 5 landed on the moonrise 10th Nov ) , March 09 Mondy ... Best trip to date with multiple captures around moonrise !


We did have stable weather on each occasion- but there was a definite bite period / increase in activity once the moon appeared.

So while I can quickly do a run these days if there is a good weather window - Organising a trip around the full moon has been fruitful 8-)

Chris

A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE
31-07-2009, 10:01 AM
I have noticed definate correlations between certain phases and fish....particularly associated with tide changes!

Steve

Steve,
As this seems the right thread to fine tune talk about lake fish, I'd just like to question your thoughts on Tidal Changes. I'm not pickin your ideas to bits for the fun of it- don't get me wrong, I'm just trying to get a grip on the idea. :) (which I struggle with) It is your words at the bottom of this post that I particularly like. :)
Firstly, like Lyndon said in an earlier post, if we took notice of all the apparent mentioned hot or active times to fish for barra- moonrise, moon set, moon up, moon down, sun rise, sunset, tide changes, lar de dah dee dah, etc we would find ourselves on the lake atleast 18 hrs out of 24. I'd bet I could catch a barra in the other 6 hrs in that day! So really, 'industry' hasn't fine tuned anything for the average angler, so lets take a closer look at the tide change.
You must refer to some card, chart or book to read what time the tide change is I imagine? Now, when does, or is the tide supposed to change on the lake? In any ocean, river, harbour or creek, tidal changes can be hours apart. For example, I can fish the first two hours of an in coming tide on a tidal headland whilst my friend less than 20 miles away is still fishing the last hours of the out going tide. If he went further up stream, the tide is half in where I am, and still going out where he is! So if we bracketed the times of tidal changes between the 18-20 miles, we end up with a 3 hour window, and in the 3 hrs window, there has probably been 50-100 tidal changes in the various rivers and streams in between, and in about 3 more hours, the cycle starts again, in reverse. So are you referring to a minute time window of 25 mins on a lake, based on a chart that gives tide times for point x, y or z, or are you clarifying tide change with some other instrument I'm not aware of, because I find the tide change theory hard to swallow when we talk of fine tuned windows, not gaps hours wide.
What are your thoughts, and can you really support it with something strong?

I like these words of yours better than your idea on the tide-
I have found there are subtle changes in the air, wind direction, water movements and a 'feel' I get, just prior as a 'hot bite' period occurs...its weird, but I can feel it, more often than not...there are distinct water activity that occours, be it bait or movement....but it happens and its too weird to explain.
Steve, I think you just explained it very well!! I'd give you 10 out of 10 for that paragraph in bold print.
Regards,
Johnny Mitchell

Steve B
31-07-2009, 10:40 AM
Johnny, Thanks for that, and I know what you mean that tides change everywhere at various times. I will clarify. I have found on the turn of a tide in the localised area, at Monduran I go on Bundaberg port. I find the wind changes...just a bit, generally a slight shift in direction and increases slightly. It is definatly noticeable in a dead still day, and the wind picks up for a slight period of about 1/2 to 1 hour, and usually so do the fish activity.. more often than not thats when that 'feeling' come into play...It has corresponded with tide change in the area on lots of occassions, and so called 'peak' times with moons....it may be a coincidence...I really dont know, I definaltly dont plan trips around it!! Similar to what you and Lyndon both said, if its blowing 30kt freezing SW wind, no tidal or moon influence is going to be noticable, or effective...mabey it does??? I just aint there to find out!!!....It generally only happend in stable 'nice' weather patterns, because thats when I fish 90% of the time. And again like you said, there are stacks of different moon, tide, major peaks, minor peaks, sunset sunrises etc within a 24 hr period...the odds are high something will line up!!!

I really dont know enough about the whole moon and tides thing to explain why and how it may work. I am only writting what I notice vs what the chart says at a particular time.

Cheers Steve

Obi _ Wan
31-07-2009, 04:10 PM
I've been sitting on the fence, watching where this thread would go and i have got to say it's a good one as it has your thought processes working overtime.

Moon Phases? The moon is the real reason we have tides through gravitational pull and the size of the tide depends on where the moon is ie; wether it is in the sky overhead or on the other side of the earth, also the distance the moon is from the earth. I seem to remember reading some where that the gravitational pull also works on the landmasses creating a bulge effect, this is less noticeable than the rise and fall of the bodies of water, therefore, i do believe that the gravitational pull of the moon does create some movement in bodies of water like our barra impoundments although the rise and fall in these areas would only be very small and probably not noticeable,maybe this is one of the reasons we get currents in the impoundments.
The gravitational pull is an amazing happening, it was noticed many many years ago that mental patients in hospitals went crazy around the full moon and from that, the word LUNATIC'S was born.
In my travells around barra dams it has been mentioned to me by of couple of older fishermen, on different occasions the the bite period coincided with the tide.
Now i guess this would also determine the position of the moon?
Do i believe it has a marked difference on a pronounced fish bite period, to be honest i'm not sure, in years gone by i used to fish for snapper on a shallow grounds just off the Entrance (NSW) and i found that when i burleyed with bread i could get the fish to bite while the moon was visible in the sky, as soon as the moon set the bite stopped, then on the first rays of light the bite would start again to the extent i would have snapper 30 to 40 feet behind my boat with their dorsals out of the water. Last Wednesday (this week) i was fishing with plastics in 15 to 20 feet of water in Moreton Bay, things were very quiet then the bite happened, 5 fish 40cm 50cm and 60cm snapper, why? i looked over my shoulder and noticed that the moon had just risen (11.06am)
But in saying that i have also experienced good bites during periods that have no conection to tide or moon, so what's the answer? i don't know. There are the bite prediction charts that i believe come from the Maori's, one i have been looking at shows the bite times coincide around the half in half out tide times, the bite i got on Wednesday was around both moon rise and half in tide.

I can say that i have experienced some very good times in the impoundments on the full moon with the barra travelling through in waves, that is you could have a bite for 10 or 15 minutes then quiet, then half an hour later they would be back. I put this down to being tied off to a tree in the laneways that the barra use when searching for tucker. As i have also experienced the same thing when there is no moon, i tend to believe the answer is location, location, you have got to be where the fish are when travelling to feed.

A few posts back Steve mentioned a feel you get sometimes, i just sat here and thought you too. It's hard to explain, but i guess it's someting like the feeling you get when you walk into a place, it either feels right or you are not comfortable there. A month or so ago i was at Mondy with Nagg and on one afternoon we fished this little secluded bay, plenty of bait flicking no wind, warm it felt reasonably good, even had the right smell, result Nagg managed two fish, a 102 and a 121cm. The next day i was in the same bay with Trev, but unfortunately it just felt different, wind on the surface, not as warm and not as much activity from the baitfish, result Trev had one hook up but lost it.

So my thoughts on the matter are, Take your time to absorb all that is around you, birds, animals, wind, current, warmth, places for fish to hold up as i believe that although you have to have a lure in the water to catch fish, you don't necessarilly have to flog the water to foam, to be sucessful, as if it's not right, the fish will not be there irrespective of the position of the moon or the height of the tides.

Cheers,
John.

Dick Pasfield
31-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Moons and Tides- is anyone here really that definite about their apparent patterns on tide changes, moon phases and the like to lay their weekly wage on it and still think they'll win their money back? Any takers?(Took the bait Johnny but only because Moriarty said we could use the extra $50 to recondition the sewer ;D)





Re moon phases



I was talking to a few people on this the other day, having some data to present. No it wasn't collected in QLD dams but barras are barra are barras so if you don't think it’s applicable because of that feel free to ignore it.

Anyway there was an ‘ask’ to represent it as single day info relating to moon cycles rather than quarterly (7 days) information.

I re-crunched the numbers on the way home and came up with the graph below.

The info is based on the following collected over 30 months -

191 fish caught over 202 trips (that's over 6 a month and focused on the weekends so all moon phases get picked up eventually)

All outlier catch figures exceeding 10 per session were removed so not to skew the data in favour of that particular day.

The info includes day, night and dusk/dawn trips. To split it down to those individual levels I'd like to have at least double the data but may look at doing that later to see what trends pop out and if they compare with my gut feelings.

There are two graph lines -

Series two, or the pink line is trips done over the 30 month period.

Series one, or the blue line is the average number of fish caught per trip, or catch effort.

The graph has on its vertical axis numbers of fish caught or days fished, on its horizontal axis the numbers are days of the lunar month (there's 29 listed to deal with the slight inconsistencies between moon phases and how you align the data in a table. The difference is minor) Day one is full moon and somewhere around day 14 is new moon.



From the trip data you can see that every day has at least two trips associated with it, the highest is 10 trips, the average is just under seven. The biggest cluster of trips is centred on the ‘no moon’ period of day 10 to 17 with a quieter period from day 5 to 9.



The catch data mostly sits under two fish/trip with an average of .9 (remember the big single trip catches are out of the equation). The exception to this is that period of full moon and just after where the average is two fish or more for three days.



The catch rates on the big moons are good throughout the wet when clouds can be an issue and are clearly impacted on by seasonal variations as with all the catch rates on other moons. Whilst they appear to be a contributor to good catch rates they sit within a cluster of other triggers so should not be seen as the only indicator for being able to predict a good trip.



Having said that I’m pre-booked for the full moon in October, with the water warming and the bugs scuttling and the moon shining it should be a good one.


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/Fish/untitled.jpg

PS Just wondering if anyone is able to comment on the catch crash on days five and six after the full moon. To be honest that came as a surprise to me when I did the graph???

Steve B
31-07-2009, 07:21 PM
DD
I've been sitting on the fence, watching where this thread would go and i have got to say it's a good one as it has your thought processes working overtime.

Moon Phases? The moon is the real reason we have tides through gravitational pull and the size of the tide depends on where the moon is ie; wether it is in the sky overhead or on the other side of the earth, also the distance the moon is from the earth. I seem to remember reading some where that the gravitational pull also works on the landmasses creating a bulge effect, this is less noticeable than the rise and fall of the bodies of water, therefore, i do believe that the gravitational pull of the moon does create some movement in bodies of water like our barra impoundments although the rise and fall in these areas would only be very small and probably not noticeable,maybe this is one of the reasons we get currents in the impoundments.
The gravitational pull is an amazing happening, it was noticed many many years ago that mental patients in hospitals went crazy around the full moon and from that, the word LUNATIC'S was born.
In my travells around barra dams it has been mentioned to me by of couple of older fishermen, on different occasions the the bite period coincided with the tide.
Now i guess this would also determine the position of the moon?
Do i believe it has a marked difference on a pronounced fish bite period, to be honest i'm not sure, in years gone by i used to fish for snapper on a shallow grounds just off the Entrance (NSW) and i found that when i burleyed with bread i could get the fish to bite while the moon was visible in the sky, as soon as the moon set the bite stopped, then on the first rays of light the bite would start again to the extent i would have snapper 30 to 40 feet behind my boat with their dorsals out of the water. Last Wednesday (this week) i was fishing with plastics in 15 to 20 feet of water in Moreton Bay, things were very quiet then the bite happened, 5 fish 40cm 50cm and 60cm snapper, why? i looked over my shoulder and noticed that the moon had just risen (11.06am)
But in saying that i have also experienced good bites during periods that have no conection to tide or moon, so what's the answer? i don't know. There are the bite prediction charts that i believe come from the Maori's, one i have been looking at shows the bite times coincide around the half in half out tide times, the bite i got on Wednesday was around both moon rise and half in tide.

I can say that i have experienced some very good times in the impoundments on the full moon with the barra travelling through in waves, that is you could have a bite for 10 or 15 minutes then quiet, then half an hour later they would be back. I put this down to being tied off to a tree in the laneways that the barra use when searching for tucker. As i have also experienced the same thing when there is no moon, i tend to believe the answer is location, location, you have got to be where the fish are when travelling to feed.

A few posts back Steve mentioned a feel you get sometimes, i just sat here and thought you too. It's hard to explain, but i guess it's someting like the feeling you get when you walk into a place, it either feels right or you are not comfortable there. A month or so ago i was at Mondy with Nagg and on one afternoon we fished this little secluded bay, plenty of bait flicking no wind, warm it felt reasonably good, even had the right smell, result Nagg managed two fish, a 102 and a 121cm. The next day i was in the same bay with Trev, but unfortunately it just felt different, wind on the surface, not as warm and not as much activity from the baitfish, result Trev had one hook up but lost it.

So my thoughts on the matter are, Take your time to absorb all that is around you, birds, animals, wind, current, warmth, places for fish to hold up as i believe that although you have to have a lure in the water to catch fish, you don't necessarilly have to flog the water to foam, to be sucessful, as if it's not right, the fish will not be there irrespective of the position of the moon or the height of the tides.

Cheers,
John.

John, awesome additions mate. I totally agree with human behaviour around the full moon...I used to hate doing night shift in Toowoomba, especially if a full moon lined up with a summers weekend...it was scary!!! Ambulance and police stats will verify the increase in 'idiot' activity on full moons...as you said lunatics!!! Mabey the barra are like us, when all the right conditions line up..watch out!!

I am glad you get that feeling too. I bet most on here do! As you said, you can feel differences one day to the next in the same area! I deffinatley believe we humans have a sixth sense....have we either not learnt how to tap into it....OR has it been breed out of us over the thousands and thousands of years from our ancetory as neandatals living a fight or flight existance close to nature. I think that was brought up here somewhere before, or I read it somewhere.

What are the thoughts on barometric pressure??? New can of worms..!!!

cheers
Steve

Dick, I am a sucker for a good graph!! Thanks mate. I am digesting it now.!!

NAGG
31-07-2009, 07:37 PM
John, awesome additions mate. I totally agree with human behaviour around the full moon...I used to hate doing night shift in Toowoomba, especially if a full moon lined up with a summers weekend...it was scary!!! Ambulance and police stats will verify the increase in 'idiot' activity on full moons...as you said lunatics!!! Mabey the barra are like us, when all the right conditions line up..watch out!!

I am glad you get that feeling too. I bet most on here do! As you said, you can feel differences one day to the next in the same area! I deffinatley believe we humans have a sixth sense....have we either not learnt how to tap into it....OR has it been breed out of us over the thousands and thousands of years from our ancetory as neandatals living a fight or flight existance close to nature. I think that was brought up here somewhere before, or I read it somewhere.

What are the thoughts on barometric pressure??? New can of worms..!!!

cheers
Steve

Ahhhh the new can of worms ::)

Yes Steve ...... sometimes you get that feeling for sure ! - both the last 2 trips

However ........ I've also had or been involved with sessions where it all felt wrong ..... like the day back in March where I left the camera behind & couldn't be bothered going back - Then we land 4 (drop 2) barra in a couple of hours including MWs new PB @ 121::) - Go figure!

Chris

vet
01-08-2009, 10:23 AM
Thanks for the graph Dick, good evidence that barra bite better around the full moon and evidence to suggest that you can catch barra at a steady rate at all other stages of the moon. This has been my point for a long time, sure you can catch barra every day of the year but all other things being equal the fish bite better around the full moon. I would just like to ask why you left out the big days as this would better display the peak periods.
I also have fished all stages of the moon for every month of the year for a number of years now. My catch rates follow a similar pattern as yours but more heavily accentuate the period 5 days before and 5 days after the full moon as I don't leave the good days out. My pattern is similar to yours in showing that I get double the catch rate around the moon as other times during the month.
So this suggests that the potential for a really good trip with large numbers of barra being caught is more likely around the full moon, providing the other factors are right. Other evidence I have to support this is: I have on 37 occasions caught more than 30 barra in a dam in a session. The factors that lead to these catches are, good stable weather leading up to it, a significant rise in water level, night time and within 5 days either side of the full moon. The thing that stands out from this is, despite fishing hundreds of trips on all stages of moon in very good weather, I have never caught more than 30 fish in a session more than 5 days either side of the full moon. From this I conclude that the moon definitely leads to a peak in barra activity.
All of this supports both sides of the discussion, the Johnny and lyndons view that you can catch fish all the time is shown to be true but the other side of the argument is also shown to be true in that you get a peak of activity around the full moon. Perfect weather and conditions alone will produce good fishing but great fishing requires perfect weather and the full moon.
Isn't it nice that both sides of the discussion are proven right,
cheers scott.

ps: recent evidence of the effect of the moon. similar weather conditions all this week, fished the same 2 hours of the day, same spot, same rod and same lure.
tuesday : 90, 98cm
wednesday: 92, 95, 102cm
thursday: 90,97,98, 105, 110cm
friday: 85, 88, 93,96, 101,107, 112, 75cm
So even with the increased fishing pressure of me going there every day the fishing is getting better as we approach the full moon.
So this is again evidence for both sides of the discussion, you can catch some fish every day but it gets better in the lead up to the moon.

Dick Pasfield
01-08-2009, 10:50 AM
I would just like to ask why you left out the big days as this would better display the peak periods.

G'day Vet,

Lies, Damn lies and statistics;D

Its a standard practice to take out outlier figures as they may skew the figures abnormally. If a pattern is consistent enough it will show without the 'one of' situations that may be the result of something else. A mathematician would be able to give a standard deviation from the mean (or is it average doh!!) that you can apply.

A good example would be day 22 and day 23. In Feb of this year I killed the pig, not because of the moon but a rapid water level rise. If I'd included the data of day 22 even with the averaging over the number of times I fished that 'day' it would have shown a big spike, you can see the bump on day 23 (where it hits 2) that was left in as the catch figures came in just under my cut off.

But you're right including the big catches would have also shot the figures around the full moon up as well.

btw note my sudden crash on 5 to day 7 before it picks up, admittedly catch effort drops as well. Do you experience something like that as well on the back end of the moon?

vet
01-08-2009, 02:08 PM
Hello Dick,
Yes I do find a drop in catch rates 5 days after the full moon as well. I suspect it may be to do with the fact that they have fed up really well in the preceeding 10 or so days before. This is only a guess with no hard facts to back it up.
I understand that statisticians usually drop the highest and lowest values off when preparing statistics. 6 of my 37 trips also were because of increased water level but they also happened within 5 days of the moon. Thanks for your input, scott.

A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE
01-08-2009, 05:04 PM
Vet, (Scott) and Dick,
Your statistics laid out point to a trend of bright moon success, but how much of this success occurs during the daylight hours,,,,,,, the other half of the day?
I know (Scott), you rarely fish extensivley during the daylight and hover in the stillness of the eve. So if a visitor arrived to fish Awoonga on the moon,,,full, etc, would you expect them to have equal chance by day as they would by night, or by day would you be recommending a totally different moon phase to amp their possible chances during the day?
Dick,
One thing I'd like to see laid over your catch results would be weather conditions and catch techniques. As we all know, there are a few different ways to trigger a fish/barra to bite a lure, hunger not being the key derivative at all times. (Reaction, instinct, reflex etc)
I once thought gun tides and superior moon phases existed in the salt fisheries, but once a few more doors got opened, I realised we as anglers needed to alter our approach a great deal to continue staying in contact with fisheries where altering conditions closed one door and opened another. In apparent peak times, factors aligned and helped us with our candid and simple styles that we adopted. (the fish came to us). I no longer see tides in rivers or sea, or moon phases that make me pack my stuff and go, but I now see a series of 'circumstances', or 'creations' made by nature that require a differing approach to get results. As Scott (Vet) says, several key variables need to align for the bright moon to add to to his super success. Subtract one key variable, and it's back to average results.
I'll add this link for anyone else who may be keen to read it. The whole page of paragraphs is connected to this matter.
http://www.fishawoonga.com.au/variables.htm
Johnny

vet
01-08-2009, 07:53 PM
Hello Johnnie, once again you are absolutely correct. I have never caught 30 plus barra during daylight, my best is 28 done twice. If I was going to fish during the daylight hours I definitely wouldn't recommend coming around the full moon period as they feed so well late at night that I would expect them to be full and laying around digesting all day. my best daytime fishing has been in the mornings around the new moon. I've spent a lot of daylight hours fishing awoonga during daylight hours over the last 2 years with Trev practicing for abt events. this has been to the detriment of my night time fishing. i'm returning to the dark side though this year, as I'm not a good fisherman but a good predicter of when it will be easy at night. So I've tried the other half of the day for 2 years and I don't like it, maybe you should try the dark side Johnny, what happens in the dark is truly amazing.
Johnny is also right in the fact that you need a lot of key variables in place before you can catch fish, the full moon is just the icing on the cake when everything else is right.
tonights results show this.
saturday : 1 bite for a jump off, ie a doughnut.
this is dramatically different to last night.
The moon was brighter and nearer to full but the wind was 10knots faster from the south east, the water temp dropped from 19.9 to 18.6, I had a jumper on at the start of the session rather than the end of it, no bugs buzzing around my face, no surface bait activity, lots of waves instead of glassy calm, all of these changes resulted in no fish. so the moon couldn't trump the weather, backing up Johnny statements. My hook up came during a brief lull in the wind, the water glassed over but had remnant swell, bugs came out and I considered taking my coat off. so a brief 10 minute window in the weather produced a bite. then the wind came back with avengence.
It's always good having a chat with you Johnny,
cheers scott.

Tropicaltrout
01-08-2009, 08:42 PM
Yep to add a small scenario I was fishing along a friend who was on a charter and we had put a fish in the boat all water factors looked right as far as my know how goes with that side of things He pulls up and works a simular area to in which we were working, the moon was fairly hight the bait was popping and bubbleing around, a fairly hot bite was on through numerous casts, they nailed some nice fish, we moved to search but connected a few fish in doing so eventually we went back to the spot and the moon was about to sink it was amazing to a fishos eyes we noticed the bait slow drematicly and the fish realy went quiet.... the next day we met my mate in the same spot neither of us touched a fish maybe throught the excitement of the day before the fish moved or salked watching the lures rattle by when you think a Bass school may shut down due to released fish do barra too slow and get picky, how long will it last before they challenge the lure agian.... mayeb the next moon period...

Anyhow all that stuff I go when I can go moon or not up or down I will plug away and never loose intrest because thats when you miss the one fish your hoping for!

Nath

NAGG
01-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Its a good topic indeed & some of the observations & recordings are amazing - well done all for sharing 8-)

Nath ..... In the end , I'm with you (& others) - go when you can go ! ....... Its much better to be fishing for barra than banging on a keyboard talking about it :)

If i have to plan ....... I plan it around a full moon - but i'll gladly fish for barra at any time :P

Chris

Dick Pasfield
01-08-2009, 11:59 PM
Your statistics laid out point to a trend of bright moon success, but how much of this success occurs during the daylight hours,,,,,,, the other half of the day? G’day Johnny I haven’t converted that data from lunar quarters (7 day periods) into single day periods yet so the answer can only be given that way for the moment, still pretty clear however.

1st Quarter to Full Moon –
21 night sessions – 2 fish per trip average
20 day sessions – .3 fish per trip


Full Moon to Last Quarter
23 night sessions – 3 fish per trip average
19 day sessions – .5 fish per trip


One thing I'd like to see laid over your catch results would be weather conditions and catch techniques. Made the decision I’d only record a certain amount of data to make interpretation manageable. I’m adding steadily as the capacity to place it within the jigsaw increases.

I
realised we as anglers needed to alter our approach a great deal to continue staying in contact with fisheries where altering conditions closed one door and opened another. Agreed on that and as I find those other doors the data should reflect that. Data is not a prediction of what will happen, rather what has transpired;).


Saturday: 1 bite for a jump off, i.e. a doughnut. Hi Scott, so much for the plan’s of mice and men. All I got tonight is pictured below:-[.


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/equipment/1-2.jpg

Tropicaltrout
02-08-2009, 02:30 PM
Just to touch on Johnnies bit on the salt fish reacting in the moon phase, We would get better tail cuts in the dark side of the moon then we would in the first and last quaters? why Maybe they come of the chew and what they have eaten is absobed and meat quality goes up, but in saying that they are harder to catch??????????

A_DIFF_PERSPECTIVE
02-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Soooo, when we talk about a visitor coming to a lake to try to catch a barra we find a definite split in results when we come to day versus night during a 'bright' moon phase. So, what does one do? For those skilled men that predict when , where, how and what; they come up trumphs when everything aligns, but they, like Scott - (vet) are relying on a strong set of skills to come together with uncontrollable key variables aligned to get those fantastic results that everyone dreams of. Those skilled men know the lake fringes and weed banks almost inside out, and can tell just by a simple cast and retrieve where they are positioned in relation to weed banks or shore lines. Most vistors cannot do that. These men have a swag of luring techniques up their sleeves, one of which (on the night) often catches more than anything else, rather than any lure bringing equal numbers every trip. A novice, or visitor who isn't tuned 100%, or even 50% to the contours of the waterway will struggle in the depths of the dark unless following the mid water troll pattern that may or may not work in their favour at the time. ( A gamble) So, on a bright moon that shines at night, do anglers sleep by day and play golf and fish by dark? A skilled angler could do that and succeed well. A visitor could be wasting hours. If the wind blew cool by night, but daylight offered better conditions, a visitor may find better chances by day; so in saying all of that, I still cannot reccomend a visitor plan a trip to a barra lake under the influence of a full moon (or there abouts) if they do not carry the appropriate base skills required to even have them in the game.
When Scotty says he catches 30 in a night, it is not because anyone can do that, it is because skill A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, and N has been utilised to have it all come together. If an angler lacks even just one of those skill sets, it can be just as tame as one key variable like weather, temp, water clarity etc missing from the equation that is required to obtain substantial results. In my job, teaching anglers to fish in the dark hours would be like asking a blind man to count red cars in the parking lot. In my eyes, everday anglers need to work on simple skills, the basic essentials that bring results. (Daylight offers those people more to absorb, by eye.) When they are mastered, or when fish come every trip, or close to it, it may just be time those anglers could advance to night angling in hope of scoring double figure sessions.
Night time angling in lakes was our cuppa tea 9-10 years ago, for a short period, but daylight seemed to offer more learnings. I have experienced what can happen in the dark/night in a lake when it all comes together, but instead, I work/fish lakes by day and fish the salt for barra by night in hope for that special giant that comes along once or twice per year. One or two 30 kg salty barra, to me, is worth the million casts it takes each year.
Two books could be written for day and night barra fishing- contrasting worlds to say no more.
As Scotty says, the last session for him proved a bit tame due to the weather not playing it's part in the equation. Just maybe later in the night may have been better , if, conditions improved, but if is an iffy word.
*Just my view- I still say that anglers visit a lake when they can. If things like weather are in their favour, that can set a great baseline to start off on, but nothing is more important than " How To" when any angler hits the water.
Great conditions and poor techniques will very often catch you nothing, on the other hand, well tuned techniques in average conditions will give you a better chance at success. Averaging ones' self out to be able to catch barra everyday, or every visit, in almost any condition is a major goal in baseline learning.
Lots to think about.
I, like Scott, Dick, and many others, enjoy these types of topics. Ausfish has done a full circle over the last few years from chest pump score cards, whizz bang lures; to now, with full on statistical information presented so the fine detail that makes these fisheries tick is shown to those who are genuinely interested. You won't find better barramundi information on salt or fresh water fisheries than on here, and sweetwater.com.au.
I'm sure many others think the same. I also think it is quite special that the topic can be discussed fairly and passionately for Aussie anglers.
Cheers
Johnny Mitchell

NAGG
02-08-2009, 08:38 PM
Well written Johnny :thumbsup:

I will say though ..... while night fishing is no place for a beginner & certainly not a place to start .
Having said that ...... there is no reason why after a bit of exposure & familiarisation that a newcomer cannot fish a sunset period through to early evening! particularly at a place like Awoonga
More often than not , I see anglers pulling their boats out of the water at the time when they should be fishing !
For me one thing serves true ...... that there is a barra o clock - & certainly from Spring time through to late Autumn ......... If I am at at barra dam - you'll see me fishing that sunset period ........ Barra O clock
If this is followed by a moon rise ........:2vrolijk_08:

Chris

vet
02-08-2009, 10:38 PM
Well written again Johnny, night fishing is a totally different ball game. It is hard enough for people to pick up on the little changes that signal a bite period in the day let alone in the dark. Night time is definitely not the time to be learning. That is what daytime is for. Instead of playing golf in the day, people should be driving around the dam studying their sounders intently, learning all the contours, holes and gutters, logs, weed balls etc. Go when it's glassy calm and then go into the weed beds and look at what is there to confirm what your sounder tells you, study the lay of a log, an alley way in a weed bed that shows the presence of a gulley which barra may travel along, even the type of weed that is growing and the type of bait fish that is present. Put on goggles and have a closer look if necessary. Mark points of interest on your gps, go back and do a normal cast with a lure you expect to use at that point and mark this point so you can position your boat and know you'll be landing the lure in the right place. Once you know what's there in detail, than you can go fishing at night. The big problem is that it will change in a short time so you have to start all over again.
I agree with you Johnny, for a newcomer to a lake daytime offers them the best chance to learn something and with that hopefully catch a barra and daytime angling definitely doesn't require a full moon. The trouble is people come with high expectations of catching lots of barra and they go away disappointed. We need to reset the bar and get people catching 1-2 barra a day consistently before they try the dark side.
An example of learning in the day: I caught a couple of fish at a spot I haven't fished for a long time, so the next day I went out in the morning and mooched around under electric power where the fish had been hooked the night before. I noticed an absence of boney bream in the area and an abundance of a smaller constantly moving baitfish in the area( rainbows), I also noted the way the logs were laying in the water and where the weed balls were and the depth was 2 foot or less. From this I went to the tackle shop and bought lighter jig heads and plastics that were more boyant but were 8-9 cm long and thin profile and dark like rainbows. Then I went back at night and caught more fish than previously.
So learning in the day is the way to go, therefore newcomers and travellers would be best to spend a fair bit of time on the water in the day, and therefore you don't need full moon.
Walk before you run,
scott.

SeekingBarradise
05-08-2009, 10:33 AM
Moon Phases & Anglers

So far this thread has backed up the Spin Gear for Barra Thread from a month ago and will be one to copy and paste to help old timers or new comers asking questions regarding Impoundment barra and moon phases. Well done to all who have contributed.

I agree I reckon 3 years ago this thread would have ended up in a full on argument. People thought we would miss the people that don’t contribute anymore, but just like Sonny Bill when he left Cantebury it only took the next season for the team to still go well in the absence.

At the moment I see the answer to the Question: “Should I post-pone or plan a trip for a better moon phase or a particular moon on a Barra Lake?”

I still see this answer as “No, just go when you can but look for a good weather window.

With JM’s thoughts on skill level I’ve added. “Try to study up and improve your knowledge/skill regarding Barra as much as possible to take advantage of the playing field you are dished up by the weather gods on your trip”.


Skill level

It was perfect timing to mention skill level of the angler JM. Lets face it the vast majority won’t have spent a lot of time or study effort on barra. If it’s not your favourite fish then the amount of hours fishing, observing, talking and thinking about the species will be low which doesn’t help.


Many people’s favourite fishing species will usually be close to where they live. With 99% of people fishing these dams being visiting anglers, it’s not rocket science to say that their barra base would be low to start with, just like if we fished for a new species in unfamiliar locations, we would be behind the 8’ball to start with. Nothing wrong with this we all have species and locations we know nothing about. But we can help people out which is the Aussie way, like this gem of a thread etc.

So in simple form, what most people are trying to do is to find the easiest fishing available.
That’s why many use spin gear, especially at entry level. That’s why people ask what lures are best for barra and what moons etc. We are really searching for better fishing times. When’s the last time you heard or saw a thread with someone wanting to be pointed towards the worst lures, gear and moons to go fishing in?

Cheers Lyndon

SeekingBarradise
05-08-2009, 10:34 AM
The Million Dollar Question

Impoundment Barra would never be the first form of fishing recommended to a mate when the topic of easy fishing rose around the campfire. So the real question is
“When is the easier fishing on a barra dam within a monthly cycle so I can plan a trip mate? Is it linked to a moon phase?”

On hard fished dams where fish have been pressured the glory days are over. Little windows are there for good fisho’s as Mitchell and Scotty have listed in their replies. However the first timer or travelling angler will have trouble cashing in on these events, if they are even noted in the first place. The first thing I’d do is send them to the easiest barra dam in the state and go from there. In the months of September to November if possible. But this is really like patching up old tyres, there is a risk of it blowing up and deflating at the worst possible time. When you really just needed a better tyre to start with, but you put it off as long as possible for one reason or another. Starting with a better tyre will get rid of the worry and let you know you are on the right track.


Solution: Tapping into knowledge

I would straight up say to anyone going to a Barra Impoundment that getting a guide on your first day would be the best thing you could ever do on a trip. Secondly I’d go out with a local that fishes like a guide.

Everything else you do will be a million % behind what you could learn by yourself in a short 2-3 day window fishing a lake you are not familiar with and a species you are not familiar with. If you are prepared to spend your cash on your own trip and you are ok with getting expensive donuts then that is ok, but you could look at things another way.

How much will I spend on lures this year? Then add up how much I’ll spend on rods and reels this year? Then add expenditure on all other fishing gear over a year, including mags? Now if some of this money went towards a guide do you think we could find a bit of extra dough?

Food For Thought Anyway. Keep this great thread rolling guys, awesome stuff.
Cheers Lyndon.

NAGG
05-08-2009, 01:12 PM
Gee I can't let this be a regular thing - but here goes ;D

I have to agree 100% with Lyndon on the guide thing ...... It would be money well spent & worth while if you plan to do a few days & have your own boat at a location

fishing with a knowledgeable local ..... also is good - I certainly owe a lot to Trev on our first trip to Awoonga

These guided times give you the opportunity to pick up on what is working then & there! - plus techniques ( & a bucket load of other stuff)

& finally

Agree with Lyndon about earlier in the season rather than later (favourable weather pattens are gold) last Sept / Oct were crackers at both Mondy & Awoonga........8-)

Cheers

chris

vet
05-08-2009, 09:21 PM
Good advice Lyndon and Chris, hiring a guide would be much easier than my method of fishing a new dam. When I arrive at a new dam I take plenty of food and look around all day and then stay out all night and fish for as long as it takes to find when the bite windows occur. Once I have found this out then I go back at similar times the following days of the trip. It would definitely be easier to hire a guide and be given up to date advice about where and when to go. The only down side of this is that it is hard to find a guide that works at night.
cheers, scott

Big_Ren
05-08-2009, 09:38 PM
Good advice Lyndon and Chris, hiring a guide would be much easier than my method of fishing a new dam. When I arrive at a new dam I take plenty of food and look around all day and then stay out all night and fish for as long as it takes to find when the bite windows occur. Once I have found this out then I go back at similar times the following days of the trip. It would definitely be easier to hire a guide and be given up to date advice about where and when to go. The only down side of this is that it is hard to find a guide that works at night.
cheers, scott

A guide is nothing short of money well spent indeed Scott, but I would think you're getting even better bang for your buck with a daylight guiding session.

You can see what he is showing you, you can see the lay of the land so to speak, you can see and hear (or listen) why he has chosen a particular target zone based on all the available variables at play.

With a night guiding session, you are missing out on those essential learnings. The info imparted is priceless.

On the subject of moons, I certainly do fish around the moon phases, but not for the reasons you may be thinking. I try to avoid fishing the full moon because it is like the Pied Piper for all the freezer brigade mice and every other Tom Dick and Harry.

We go when we can, as often as we can, but more often than not I try to avoid the big globe in the sky like the plague for that reason alone.

Cheers
Paul

Awoonga
06-08-2009, 08:08 AM
So lets see... And take last night as a example..Wind blowing . At least 10 to 15 Knots Water temp 19.5 .The air temp was cold {jumper time and coat time} Now the location was somewhere that l have not been for at least two years ..Why ? because someone was in my spot .Or should that read there was a boat where l had been fishing latley ! I was looking for a wind blown bay . This bay had the waves rolling in from the main basin {quite rough }At the entrance to the bay on the sounder there where the ladies... At least twenty .They seemed to be in this holding pattern . Like not ready to feed or go into the bay. Now this was before the sun had set and the moon had risen l moved into the bay anchor deployed and waited...Nothing untill the moon rose and the sun had set then slowly it started to happen first the nips and bumps then two bites then the hookups it all lasted about forty minutes then nothing.. Was it the moons influence ? or a new location ? The night before l fished with Scotty in the location that was occupied last night water temp was 20c the wind had stopped and only one fish was hooked. To me the conditions on that night where better than last night . Tonight l shall go back to that bay and see what happens !

Pete62
06-08-2009, 11:15 AM
A quick thank - you to those kind enough to share their knowledge and experiences on this topic, I am finding it riveting and informative reading.

Pete - A traveling Angler -

vet
06-08-2009, 03:07 PM
Hi Big Ren, I see your point but don't understand why you can't see or hear what the guide is saying because it is night. I find that I can hear, see and feel what's going on better at night because it is often calmer, every ripple roll and splash is easier to see and hear because of the stillness. As I said before, for newcomers it is easier to learn in the day and this is why guides work in daylignt.
cheers scott.

fishel
06-08-2009, 07:02 PM
SeekingBarradise, Interesting what you say about barra being caught in temps considered low enough to kill barra, because a neighbour of a friend who lives at Dalby put 20 barra in his dam a few years ago, and not a very big dam at that, as they only have half an acre of land, and he put his boat in the dam and checked his sounder and found 18 of them still alive. Some have been caught and were a good size.

Now, if you don't know Dalby, it is COLD. Lots of frosts with a layer of ice on top of any water containers, etc left outside in the winter. I was very surprised as I thought they didn't live south of Gympie because of the cold.

Cheers Eleanor

Big_Ren
06-08-2009, 08:18 PM
Hi Big Ren, I see your point but don't understand why you can't see or hear what the guide is saying because it is night. I find that I can hear, see and feel what's going on better at night because it is often calmer, every ripple roll and splash is easier to see and hear because of the stillness. As I said before, for newcomers it is easier to learn in the day and this is why guides work in daylignt.
cheers scott.

I actually love fishing at night Scott, particularly Awoonga. But if people have particular learning styles that are more attuned to seeing (as distinctly opposed to sensing or feeling) what they are hearing, and with that comes acceptance and belief, then day time is the go for a higher percentage of beginners and experienced anglers alike. Monkey see, monkey do.

Me......it doesn't worry me if it's the a.m. or the p.m......beats the heck out of work don't ya think.

Cheers
Paul

Big_Ren
06-08-2009, 08:43 PM
SeekingBarradise, Interesting what you say about barra being caught in temps considered low enough to kill barra, because a neighbour of a friend who lives at Dalby put 20 barra in his dam a few years ago, and not a very big dam at that, as they only have half an acre of land, and he put his boat in the dam and checked his sounder and found 18 of them still alive. Some have been caught and were a good size.

Now, if you don't know Dalby, it is COLD. Lots of frosts with a layer of ice on top of any water containers, etc left outside in the winter. I was very surprised as I thought they didn't live south of Gympie because of the cold.

Cheers Eleanor

That's quite interesting Eleanor, because as Lyndon said, JM caught fish in water cooled to 14.9oC. (surface temp I imagine).

It is not that far above the generally accepted mortality threshold of water temperatures dropping below 13oC.

Having said that, it is also reported that mortality due to disease outbreaks and other stress-related factors incrementally becomes a more frequent event in water slightly warmer than that.

Cheers
Paul

NAGG
06-08-2009, 08:59 PM
My understanding is that the fish kills occur when the barra venture into the shallows to warm themselves during the day & then you have a cold snap that chills the shallow water to close to air temperature. The barra who stayed in the shallows ( usually bigger fish) basically get hypothermia.
I think the fish kills of last August occured during around a week long cold snap .

Chris

vet
06-08-2009, 09:52 PM
Yes Paul, the study of barra is definitely better than work. cheers scott

Big_Ren
06-08-2009, 09:53 PM
My understanding is that the fish kills occur when the barra venture into the shallows to warm themselves during the day & then you have a cold snap that chills the shallow water to close to air temperature. The barra who stayed in the shallows ( usually bigger fish) basically get hypothermia.
I think the fish kills of last August occured during around a week long cold snap .

Chris

That's my understanding too Chris. Bit like that Elvis number...."....caught in a trap, can't walk out" Without having the capacity to interview those captive fish, it seems to me they found themselves in a nice position, thought it might stay that way, it didn't because of the rapidly fluctuating thermal variations of shallower bodies of water...and bingo...hypothermia/lethargy triggers a fatal turn of events.

Remember that fungal type growth on the backs of many of those bigger fish last year...almost like they were sunburnt.

There is still the potential this year but the "snap" effect of a sudden plummet in temperature does not seem to have occurred thankfully.

Having said that, if temperatures deeper within the core of a lake reached those same life-threatening temperature thresholds, then we would undoubtedly have a much bigger fish kill on our hands.

Rambling a little bit, sorry.

Cheers
Paul

Big_Ren
06-08-2009, 09:57 PM
Yes Paul, the study of barra is definitely better than work. cheers scott

Too right Scott. You are a lucky bugger in your line of work. Barra are just an extension of that for you.

Cheers
Paul

vet
06-08-2009, 10:07 PM
Hello Paul, last year the overall water temperature was colder by now by about 2 degrees ie it would warm up to 18 degrees after getting down to 16 overnight. so far the dam is still around 20 degrees in the afternoon so the barra are still sitting out a bit deeper and don't feel the need to come into the shallows to warm up yet. Last year every bay you drove into had hundreds of barra storming out of the shallows where they were warming up. This year this isn't happening yet, you can drive up the back of the bays and nothing comes rushing out. If you sound around in 15 odd feet you can see piles of barra piling up in the creeks than just on dark they move into the shallows to feed for 40 minutes than they drop back. It is looking good so far this year but 2 weeks of sw could still change this, so hopefully not. The full moon doesn't seem to have any effect on this.
cheers scott.

Big_Ren
06-08-2009, 10:44 PM
Hello Paul, last year the overall water temperature was colder by now by about 2 degrees ie it would warm up to 18 degrees after getting down to 16 overnight. so far the dam is still around 20 degrees in the afternoon so the barra are still sitting out a bit deeper and don't feel the need to come into the shallows to warm up yet. Last year every bay you drove into had hundreds of barra storming out of the shallows where they were warming up. This year this isn't happening yet, you can drive up the back of the bays and nothing comes rushing out. If you sound around in 15 odd feet you can see piles of barra piling up in the creeks than just on dark they move into the shallows to feed for 40 minutes than they drop back. It is looking good so far this year but 2 weeks of sw could still change this, so hopefully not. The full moon doesn't seem to have any effect on this.
cheers scott.

Lol Scott. I forgot this was a thread about the moon.

That is good news so far though. Although last year made many of us feel bad, it was just a drop in the ocean to the amount that survived...some impoundments faring worse than others...granted.

Cheers mate and might catch up again soon. We seem to see the good doctor a fair bit these days. You should venture 90 minutes south down the goat track some time.

Cheers
Paul

NAGG
07-08-2009, 06:13 AM
Keeping off topic ::) If we can get through the next 2-3 weeks without a prolonged cold SW blast ....... The fish kills should be avoided. (we actually have very good weather forecasts for the next week or so)
Seeing that its been a fairly mild winter & some more favorable weather due (North winds)....... I reckon we might be in for some cracker barra fishing during Sept :P
So all I want to know now is - When is the full moon ;)

chris

Big_Ren
07-08-2009, 11:03 AM
So all I want to know now is - When is the full moon ;)

chris

Stevo is an ardent student of The Moon Chris....he will be able to tell you;D

Cheers
Paul

SeekingBarradise
07-08-2009, 12:22 PM
SeekingBarradise, Interesting what you say about barra being caught in temps considered low enough to kill barra, because a neighbour of a friend who lives at Dalby put 20 barra in his dam a few years ago, and not a very big dam at that, as they only have half an acre of land, and he put his boat in the dam and checked his sounder and found 18 of them still alive. Some have been caught and were a good size.

Now, if you don't know Dalby, it is COLD. Lots of frosts with a layer of ice on top of any water containers, etc left outside in the winter. I was very surprised as I thought they didn't live south of Gympie because of the cold.

Cheers Eleanor


Hi Eleanor thanks for the reply.

Yep i know where Dalby is for sure, i used to kick around that region and lived in areas close by, played some sport, camped, fished and hunted N,E,W & South of there. We used to duck through that way heading west to hunt Roos, Pigs and Goats. I remember some long shots with the trusty old Tikka .222. The areas North & East of the area we had Red Deer country basicaly from Bunya mountains to Crows Nest to Esk. Good people and nice country everyone should check out one day.

Dalby: They breed them big out that way, i saw a whole 16 year old team bigger than Paul Sironen playing league where they were running over kids like Semi' Trailers crushing kangaroo's at night. Some ate whole chickens for lunch.

Barra: We used to skip through the back way to Dalby then up to Wuruma Dam which was stinking hot in summer and freezing in winter so i know what you mean by cold.:) The session i described where the bite got later each night was at Wuruma Dam.

We had a ball on barra there before the cold smashed about 2000 barra just when the fishery was booming. Sadly it's never got back anywhere near where it was before the kill & when they let so much water out which didn't help matters.

The 14.9 is fact it's recorded on DVD in the Fish Awoonga DVD.

It's great to hear the barra in the dam are still alive, they did well and if fish could buy lotto tickets i'd tell them all to buy plenty.:D

Thanks for posting & Jogging treasured memories.
Cheers Lyndon.:D

Steve B
08-08-2009, 11:45 AM
Ren, The moon is here mate!!;) ;D

Speaking of moons (in the sky), Spudly and I went out Thurs for a bit of a fish. We were working a bay up in D, and a couple of blokes were camped right up the back. They had seperate boats, they were working towards us, and had a double hookup! it was great to watch....shame we didnt get into the action at that time too. Unfortunatly 1 fish was lost. very happy campers!! got a few good tips of these boys...they were trolling plastics over submerged trees in a creekbed in the bay..interesting technique that worked.

For us, nothing until sunset..Spud got a 105 just on dark, then the moon rose about 6pm...I said 'look the moon is poking its head over the horizon' then 'bang' I was on, dropped it...got 1 about 3 casts later 90 odd cm, had a double hookup five casts later again, both got stitch up, plus a few more belts etc on plastics after that. I think we had 8 solid hookups/fish in 40 min post moonrise....and the weather was a bit ordinary too, cold SE wind. Last night would have been even better I reckon, but we we not allowed to go!:-[ couple of interesting notations...the birds appear to be returning...didnt see any fish shallow at all, spooked 1 fish in a weed bed as we ploughed through it to get into a bay. Didnt see any bait activity..mabey 1 or 2 flicking surface just after dark...simultanouesly with fish biting...no surface boofing.

cheers Steve

vet
08-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Hi Paul, yes it would be good to catch up again. I don't think I'll be doing the 90 minute drive too often though, I actually like to catch fish when I go out and it doesn't happen for me too often in monduran. It has 1 advantage over awoonga, Isis is only 30 minutes away.

Hello Steve B, I bet you were suprised to get a bite period at sunset with the moon rising. Who'd have guessed that would occur. Judging by only 4 boats out on awoonga at that time, not too many people. There was me, trev, lochyand someone from nsw, after talking with trev who spoke to everyone on the dam that night it seemed that everyone caught fish at that time.
Hope you keep catching them, scott

tednted
10-08-2009, 03:28 PM
Great Thread fella's
This has been a fantastic read for me , heading up to awoonga early Oct. & doin a guide session the first day we get there with Johnny:)
Coincidently we arrive just before the full moon in Oct & this will be the 2nd time I've trekked up from Vic.
With only the 1 barra for 7 days last year ,I thought the guide idea would be the way to go . I was lucky enough to catch 1 on the troll last year ,but I still didn't know too much about barra fishin by the time I left to come home !!!! Hopefully with what I've been reading & help I've been getting of sweetwater & doin a guide with John !! I may learn a bit about this caper ::) ::)
Keep up the good read guys
Cheers AL

Steve B
10-08-2009, 07:48 PM
Great Thread fella's
This has been a fantastic read for me , heading up to awoonga early Oct. & doin a guide session the first day we get there with Johnny:)
Coincidently we arrive just before the full moon in Oct & this will be the 2nd time I've trekked up from Vic.
With only the 1 barra for 7 days last year ,I thought the guide idea would be the way to go . I was lucky enough to catch 1 on the troll last year ,but I still didn't know too much about barra fishin by the time I left to come home !!!! Hopefully with what I've been reading & help I've been getting of sweetwater & doin a guide with John !! I may learn a bit about this caper ::) ::)
Keep up the good read guys
Cheers AL

Not maybe Al, you will learn something from Johhny thats for sure!! Best move you will ever make, short of moving to QLD from Vic;);D is getting a guide. I reckon you will get heaps in the period your coming, and you will go home knowing heaps more too. Good luck with it, and cant wait for the reports.
Cheers Steve

Steve B
06-02-2010, 09:34 AM
Bumping this up for Louie!!

Just read it all again. Its a good read!

Cheers Steve