MAN OVER BOARD - Doing it often??

[QF3 MROCP]

I was surveying a group of recreational skippers the other day and when asking the question how often did they practise a "Man Over Board" drill, none of their hands went. I took a deep breath and continued on the conversation.. so I am posing this question to the wider group of you....


Man Overboard



When a person falls overboard, the worst thing to do is jump in after them. The potential drownings immediately double. If an occupant of your vessel falls overboard:

Put the motor in neutral and raise the alarm
Swing the propeller quickly away from them
Throw a lifebuoy ring, horseshoe or PFD to them
Keep them in sight at all timesHelp the victim into the vessel, preferably over the stern, as a small vessel might capsize or take water if you try taking them in over the side.

On yachts with overhanging sterns, they should be pulled in at the lowest point of freeboard.

Victims may be hurt, cold or exhausted. If they cannot help themselves, it is difficult to get them back into the vessel.

Practice your ‘man overboard’ drill whenever possible and in all conditions.

Williamson Turn
This turn can be used if a person falls overboard. The turn brings the vessel back on it's original path, allowing the vessel to lower speed and recover the person in the water. (See the diagram below).





http://www.boatingsafety.com/live/nzcg/action5.jpg



Cold Water Immersion
Cold water affects your ability to survive if capsized. Southern Australian winter waters can be below 10° Celsius. The effects of cold water immersion and hypothermia impact on your ability to think and act clearly. Wear a lifejacket and suitable warm clothing. Never wear cotton. Ensure that the outer layer of clothing is watertight. If you do fall out, if safe to do so, hold onto your vessel for support until your breathing settles down.

Hypothermia
The term ‘hypothermia’ means lowering deep-body or core temperature. ‘Immersion hypothermia’ is an acute type of hypothermia produced when a person is immersed in cold water. For further information on hypothermia check out the first aid (http://www.marinesafety.vic.gov.au/Web1/msvhome.nsf/AllDocs/FC30B48640AE011CCA2572DC00022B67?OpenDocument)sect ion.

WARNING: the consumption of alcohol, attempting to swim or movement in the water will cause the body to expend heat very rapidly, which will hasten the onset of hypothermia.

[dfox]

Something that should be added to this is the fact that if someone goes overboard offshore at night while at anchor. (or anywhere with current at night).
My procedure is to cut the anchor rope, keep in contact (verbal) , get a light on them, then either drift until they can swim back to the boat or once the light is on them then start the motor ... foxy

[Angla]

Humorously.....Have you seen the size of some of those biteys in the water. Every time I am out at The Banks and suggest a quick MOB test, the mates freak out. NIYFLT is the reply.
I do get a little practice with crab pots but and the occasional lost hat.

Cheers
Chris

PS I like Dfox's thoughts

[cormorant]

Swing the propeller quickly away from them ????

That means you are steering the hull or front of the motor at them.

I was trained to
1) hold course. or neutral
2) Throw buoy, lifejacket flotsam anything that floats to mark area. Mark GPS. Buy a $10 droge for your life buoy so wind doesn't drive it off. We aso have a throw bag at the stern and you can throw it pretty accurately if in close range.
3) Allocate spotter - they do not take eyes off MOB. Allocate back up spotter. Everyone else sit down, shut up and do nothing until told. Spotters to constantly call vector and physically point to MOB - 6 oclock 9 oclock 1 oclock so both are definately spotting the same person/ object overboard
4) Clear boat, ladder over side
5) Approach slowly
6) confirm they are OK before lifting from water - spine injuries are better supported in water before lifting or waiting for pros to do it.
7) recover them on helm side or wher you have best vision - have run down a few practise buoys - clunk clunk ouch.


Best training - throw out a $50 bill with a key float. Haven't lost one yet but a few would be in big trouble if in cold water.!!! I hate litter so that is the training if I see anything go over the sides or something in the water like plastic bags. Haven't bought a hat in years .

Really important the back up driver wife , son etc are confident in close manovouring and know what to do as generally it is often the capt overboard having a pee or checking something.

I don't do drills with visitors but make it clear when doing the life jacket check and boat orientation when they hop on that they know to yell so we know they are MOB , stay calm and for others onboard to listen to instructions from the captain and follow them. After the person is recovered or emergency we can discuss but in an emergency the capt words must be followed.

When anchored up overnight in yachts we always had a ladder down and on occasions a trailing buoy on a rope that you could swim for if in a strong tide. Always had a deck ight on all night. We had a buoy on the bow that could be quickly attached to anchor line if we dragged and had no time to recover and cut it. That way you don't lose your main tackle.

[Mr__Bean]

Just to add to the night at anchor scenario, my son Alan and I used to regularly fish overnight in Westernport Bay Vic. Westernport tides flow very quickly and you have absolutely no chance of swimming against it.

Our rehearsed plan was to place the waterproof torch and knife at the helm, if anyone went into the drink at night then first thing to do was to turn on the torch and throw it toward the swimmer (they can swim to it and you can motor to it).

Then cut the rope etc as described by others.

We now carry a small watreproof floating strobe light for this purpose, bit of an overkill but it was given to us with a safety grab bag.

- Darren

http://www.whitworths.com.au/products/74666_lg.jpg

[Reel Nauti]

I was taught to bring the boat back down current of the MOB and then position towards him moving the boat up current. Helps maintain control over steerage and vessel speed. Once MOB has been grabbed, where possible cut the engine and bring MOB over the stern.
A buoy or a lifejacket on a rope of 20 - 30 mtrs out the back at night can be good insurance.

Dave

[PinHead]

to be honest I have not even thought about that scenario

[TheRealAndy]

Try doing it in a sail boat! All I can say is that I have had much practice with MOB's.

[Horse]

Foxys scenario is very real and I had not thought of cutting the anchor rode and drifting. We had an incident many moons ago down the Pin when we had two boats rafted and a good bit of rain. We were huddled up front in a small cabin and one of the guys went to the other boat for beverages;) . He took the opportunity to relieve himself and ended up in the drink:o . Not wanting to make a complete fool of himself he thought he could get back onboard. he put his head down and stroked hard only to find himself a lot further downstream:P . He then started calling for help and one guy heard a faint call and went to investigate. By the time we got the boat loose and running we had no idea where he was and over the motor could hear nothing. Luckily another boat heard him and hit him with a spotty so we could pick him up. It was very close as he could not swim in the winter layers of clothing he was wearing

[Fish Lips]

Hadn't even thought about it.:-[

I will now.

Great thread.

Ta.

[Tangles]

QF3 has it nailed, basic MOB crash stop and return

1: Emphasise dedicated spotter who does nothing but point and spot position of MOB and yell it out to skipper. If another person they have safety device ready to throw, if not person looking at MOB doesnt move and take eyes off MOB until close quarters at side of boat,

Will say that what is not covered here is how to get someone back onboard over the transom or side etc if deadweight, can say from experience 2- 3 knots drifting past a MOB is a lot and you will miss them very easily and they will quickly slip by, (combined boat and MOB speed,, try a practice and see how quickly something floats by)

.and weight will be a problem, a lot of assumptions that someone overboard are not a dead weight? A plastic gaff canbe useful to hook clothing to hold

Of course doesnt help if dont know someone is MOB, all you can do is crash stop and get back to your original position as best you can and this is where procedure kicks in

cant emphasize how important for someone to stay focused on the MOB and point and yell,,,even if its to your track as that as we all know is easy to lose.. ie MOB canbe back to your track if that makes sense

Also throwing things to MOB assumes far to much

apologies for the preach

[cormorant]

"Also throwing things to MOB assumes far to much"

The throwing things is to mark a reference point as a dark haired person in dark clothing is hard to see. If the person is concious and can swim or wave their arms etc even better. The items you throw will help show you the drift and give a reference point if you lose site of the person

We have hauled blokes , a freaked out shelia ( jeeze that was hard scratched us to buggery out of fear and then she went into shock) and I have been hauled onto boat once in full wet weather gear and at over 100kg plus water 3 fit blokes nearly blew a valve doing it. There just isn't grab handles on people. Our lifebuoy is one of the soft foam ones that can be slipped under the arms and used as a lifting sling but you still have to lift the weight and get a strap on the buckles.

As anyone who dives knows just how much easier it is with a well constructed strong ladder. With a unconcious person you just have to drag em in teh best you can so you can start care once they are safe, just protect the head but everything else is a grap point.

In cold water you only get one really good go at it as the adreneline of both the person in the water and people run out and it just gets harder so try and get it right 1st time. Tell the person how you are going to do it so they don't struggle against you.

As Andy says in sailing it is a common drill that anyone who has done training does and we repeat it at the start of the sailing season with any new crew so everyone knows their job. On the bigger boat we have special slings , plastic recovery scamble net and at night or offshore everyone wears a harness.
It isn't easy slowing down a massive boat ( you don't have time to drop sails) that weighs a lot and keeping steerage next to a person in the water and you lose sight of them due to the hull shape and have 2-3 feet to get them on board. Very easy to run over a person in the water when you are picking them up.

[Aunty Jack]

I do it just about every time l go out
l'm always having to chase my hat before it sinks.

[finding_time]

Try doing it in a sail boat! All I can say is that I have had much practice with MOB's.


Yep backin the sailing days it was practiced every training day! But there are bigger problems doing it in a sailing boat. ;) If it happened in the cat all i would do is kill the motor let the way come off go into reverse, once near the person go back into neutral remove the marlin door and up they climb. pretty straight forward and as Swampman said i get plenty of practice every time a hat blows off!

Foxy raised some good point regards being at anchor when the boat isn't live , and i can see this time being more dangerous for a man overboard situation, specially when you stick your a$$ over the side to snap a cr@p! Cutting the anchor line is a great first move!;)

Ian

[GBC]

You must take note of the original course steered for a Williamson (Q) turn to work, also constant revs must be maintained throughout the turn.

Most important for MOB recovery esp in decent sized vessels is to approach from UPWIND.

[samson]

I was also taught raise alarm, post spotter and throw floatsam and to take note of compass course do willamson turn to opposite side of compass this gets you on a dirrect track especially when person is unsighted in dark and if for any reason person is unconscous to recover by yourself is to cut engine sit him on the leg of the outboard grab by the collar and raise person out with the trim on the engine which i thought wasn't a bad idea when somebody is limp and wet.

[cormorant]

You must take note of the original course steered for a Williamson (Q) turn to work, also constant revs must be maintained throughout the turn.

Most important for MOB recovery esp in decent sized vessels is to approach from UPWIND.


Have been trained both upwind and downwind or different sea state. Depends on whether your boat is going to be a danger to the person or if you are using it to shield the person in the lee of the boat. If they are concious , able bodies etc. Very little control coming down on a person with following wind or current as you have no steerage or brakes. Upwing and going up current you can hold your position with various sail ( in irons) or power settings on the motor to control drift.

Probably saying the same thing just using different terminology?

Always surprises me how rusty I am at it and make a point of picking up mooring , pots and making a effort to get it right as if it was a person. Surprising how much momentum you have witha 3 tonne boat and a few knots for someone to hold on to a mooring against the wind.

[Pretzil]

Is the 'never considered it' option also meaning 'not going to do it in the future either'??? Because thats what I chose. Do you mean that you think people with 18ft tinnies etc should be doing these practices? Ive always thought that it is more for sailing boats and larger boats with restricted manoeuvrability.

[jeffrey_h]

Pretzil, what would you think if it were you that was the MOB and your crew didn't know what to do?

We have done it often enough when you lose a hat or other object overboard. or see rubbish in water. Also in the long past was trained as crew in 44' racing yacht.

Sudden stops are dangerous for any crew that's not ready for it. I was put thru the cabin door backwards, I was looking over the stern at the prop, the son was at the helm, we came to big boat wash so he wacked it in neutral with-out thinking.

"Cut the anchor rope", what if, like me, you have all chain, one day soon I will put a strong short rope at the bitter end so this can be done, one day.

Jeffrey

[Mr__Bean]

Also throwing things to MOB assumes far to much


Mike throwing the lit torch is our plan as when there are only 2 of you onboard and one has gone into the drink you can't keep your eyes on them continuously if you are going to go up front to cut the rope and then get back into the cabin to motor back to them.

Whilst they may not be able to swim to the torch for whatever reason the torch will end up very close to them if thrown early and it will assume the same drift as the overboard person will.

- Darren

[BaitThrower]

Also, to help track back to the location they went overboard, some GPS units have a "Man Overboard" or MOB button, which when pressed will instantly lock the position and provide a course direction or arrow feature leading the boat straight back to the point they went overboard. Can be handy to get you back to the original point of loss.

[Tangles]

Darren,

Good point when short handed, markers are good practice, was just following on making the point about assumptions, not having a dig

cheers
mike

[cormorant]

Is the 'never considered it' option also meaning 'not going to do it in the future either'??? Because thats what I chose. Do you mean that you think people with 18ft tinnies etc should be doing these practices? Ive always thought that it is more for sailing boats and larger boats with restricted manoeuvrability.



Small boats have huge issues of how to get someone in without capsizing or getting swamped especially an older boat with heavy 4 stroke and heaps of fuel or bait tank. When ther is only 2 of you you really want the 2nd bloke to understand how to operate the boat, find lifejacket, torch use radio or get mobile out of waterproof case. etc. Then be able to come get you.

Hell I have done lots of roll and capsize drills in a kayak as well,. Kayakers in groups allocate a medical kit carrier, throw line carrier etc.

[Pretzil]

Okay, maybe I was wrong, I just meant that I am not going to force any of the people in the boat into the ocean just to make sure I can pick them up again.

[jeffrey_h]

You don't throw people in, try a life jacket or bouy. Don't tell them just do it and see the reaction. It's all part of the boat license test, you did do a test didn't you?

It could be the difference between life and death if it does happen, and you are prepared or not.


Jeffrey

[QF3 MROCP]

Next time you’re out on the water, take a capped empty plastic milk bottle and get one of your crew to toss it over while doing 15knots and have them call “Man Over Board, Man Over Board” (preferably include which side ie, Port or Starboard).

If he/she keeps their eyes on it and maintains an extended arm pointing at the bottle and don’t loose sight of it, while you as skipper take the appropriate action to go and retrieve it.

Then come back to the thread and let us know how you go.. Oh.. one other thing, I want you to assume that is a four year old child your looking for.

All good training no matter what size or type of marine craft/vessel

[cormorant]

Okay, maybe I was wrong, I just meant that I am not going to force any of the people in the boat into the ocean just to make sure I can pick them up again.


You must be to young to have a mother inlaw. If I could only get the exwife onboard!!!!!

Sailtraining and rescue training they now use a weighted dummy and it is only 40kg but hell it is a task and a half. In the old days we did put a person in the channel with a lifejacket and the mayhem that often happened made everyone aware of just how important it is. In winter it was just a old life jacket padding out a solid cinder block


Larger yachts are now doing very fancy proximity alert MOB alarm all linked into the autopilot and GPS. Even with one attached to the dogs collar if teh dog goes more than a boat length or 2 from teh boat it will tell you what direction to steer and slow teh boat down.. Great for ocean cruisers

[Reel Nauti]

I'm having a problem getting my head around this Williamson Turn. To do that, means that you are coming from upwind (wind behind you) and bearing with the current, (if you were at anchor when MOB occured). How do you maintain accurate steerage and control speed? I thought that is why I was taught the complete opposite - to come around downcurrent of MOB so that I could maintain steerage and control over speed as I moved toward him? In fact 30 years ago I was put through some extensive testing to ensure it was right, in an 18 ft powerboat. I was also taught to grab MOB from starboard and as soon as he was grabbed throw boat hard to starboard immediately and cut the engine. This was to ensure he would remain boatside and dragging to the stern to bring him in.
I'm sorry but this Williamson has me confused and doubtful.

Dave

[cormorant]

Have a read of wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_overboard_rescue_turn

These turns in power boats take no account of tide or wind direction and assume there is utmost urgency to get to the spot or on the reciprical course to spot the man overboard.

The turn doesn't actually take into account the physical rescue it is just a way of returning approximately to a spot on the water and uses the turning radius ( helm right over) of your boat as a consistant port or starboard gauge and compass to confirm track once complete.

The finer parts of recovery are a whole diferent kettle of fish and depends on so many factors.

The obvious choice is to be facing both wind and current as you have more steerage and then to begin the recovery process however in very cold water or with injuries your patient may not live long enough so you may wish to recover however is fastest. That is what a captain must weigh up - possibly run him down by trying from upwind with little steerage or extra time to make a easier recovery faccing current and wind.


Having been in the water after a fitting failure threw me over and had a yacht powering back downwind towards me after a turn it was a relief to see it go past checking I was OK throw a buoy and then retrieve me as they turned and stalled into the wind. That was a figure 8 move which yacht guys use. Poor mongrels lifting me out after 10-15minutes in cold water I was well rooted and was little help with wet weather gear holding at least 50kg of water. A few lessons learnt that day

My thoughts are as fast as you can get there and considering experience of crew and conditions get em out of the water or atleast connected to the boat. Couldn't imagine the pain of losing sight of someonewhile making a extra turn. If they get a few extra bruises so be it but want them onboard and safe.

[GBC]

Quick hint from my h.u.e.t training days.

When recovering someone from the water who is wearing a lifejacket - try to sink them first. Give them a quick shove downwards then use the momentum gained by their bouyancy to assist you.
It actually works quite well.

[finding_time]

Quick hint from my h.u.e.t training days.

When recovering someone from the water who is wearing a lifejacket - try to sink them first. Give them a quick shove downwards then use the momentum gained by their bouyancy to assist you.
It actually works quite well.

GBC

Lets assume for a minute that it was your lovely wife that fell overboard, you spin the searash around come up along side, she reaches out lovingly realising that she has been saved from drowning or being eaten and the first thing you do is shove her back under water!!!!!:o Your so dead!!!!;)

Ian

Ps. imagine that your brother in-law was the one to fall over, your could pushs him all the way to the bottom and your still not going to be able to get him into the boat!!:o

[GBC]

It also temporarily stops an individual panicking - from the shock of it all.

Finding time - I'm not sure she'd accept my excuse either.........

As for the big fellah - when he was leaning against the side of the boat dying from choking on the chicken bone I was tossing up whether or not to do first aid or just give him a shove while he was still upright. There was no bloody way the Cruisecraft was going to plane home with his dirty great carcass right down the stern!:P
Just kidding searash........you know I love you mate:-*. Certainly made me reflect on how fast things can turn.

[Foxy4]

No what can i say but Top Marks for QF3 MROCP for this one. I do it on my own boat as well as the QF3 vessels and also on the SES Flood Boat as well. Plus it make it easy as when you want to pick up crab pots on your own.

[Bros]

I was diving off North West island some years ago and we were doing it out of a 14ft dinghy leaving one person in the dinghy to watch us and pick us up. I'd never dived out of a dinghy before just from larger boats with ladders or from shore.

When we had finished both got all our gear into the boat and I helped my buddy into the dinghy. When it came my turn there was no way I could get over the side or stern. The other bloke in the dinghy was more experienced than me in dinghy diving so he got the other person on the other side of the boat and got me to grab the gunwhale up near the front and lie flat and to this day I don't know how he did it but he grabbed one of my legs and as easy as anything just rolled me into the dinghy.

As others have said the most important thing is to not take your eyes of the MOB for one second.

[black runner]

I incorporate it when doing the biscuit/water sports thing every year. Probably should do it more often. Good question MRO

Cheers

[QF3 MROCP]

View Poll Results: Do you conduct regular Man Over Board drills with your passenger and family?

Never considered it http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 62.50%
I will in the future http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 13.75%
Regularly, within 6 - 12 month gaps http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif 12.50%
Very rarely http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5-r.gif 11.25%


Great to see 14% of you are taking on the MOB drill. Now for the Very Rarely, please consider becoming a Regular and as for the Never Considered It...

If you have safety first, your day will always be a better day!!

Appreciate your time to do the poll.. keep it going

[BREEZE470]

This thread was a great read - thanks to everyone who contributed & to the thread starter.

Of 5 men & 1 women doing my licence test (hubby included) I was the one who did the best MOB retrieval on a nice smooth river ........ hubby retrieved a hat in rough weather the other week and I've gotta tell you I would not have wanted to have been at the helm - even more reason for me to practice this !!! Well Done for the reminder of how very important a MOB drill is ......

[Chine]

Also, to help track back to the location they went overboard, some GPS units have a "Man Overboard" or MOB button, which when pressed will instantly lock the position and provide a course direction or arrow feature leading the boat straight back to the point they went overboard. Can be handy to get you back to the original point of loss.

This is an extremely important point........particularly at night. This will establish a datum position for searching in the event of no visual on the MOB.......or person over board. It is amazing how quickly you lose a visual datum at night.

Mr Bean's suggestion on the strobe light is also fundamental.........

Great thread.

[Nico.d.R]

i have not done it yet , my son always wants to but im a bit hesitant on letting him jump into the water i catch sharks in . I will be doing a practice run on the holidays .

I was told when i got my license if some body goes over board have 2 dolphin tourches in the boat and throw them out asap , the 2 tourches give you a line to search on and should drift in the same direction as the MOB , i supose its better if you can get 1 tourch to the mob , but if you are moving at high speeds this will give you a good search area .

cheers nico

[stevej]

View Poll Results: Do you conduct regular Man Over Board drills with your passenger and family?

Never considered it http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar2-r.gif 62.50%
I will in the future http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar3-r.gif 13.75%
Regularly, within 6 - 12 month gaps http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar4-r.gif 12.50%
Very rarely http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5-l.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/images/polls/bar5-r.gif 11.25%


Great to see 14% of you are taking on the MOB drill. Now for the Very Rarely, please consider becoming a Regular and as for the Never Considered It...

If you have safety first, your day will always be a better day!!

Appreciate your time to do the poll.. keep it going

even in calm controlled conditions its a dangerous risky maneuver not saying to not do it, but deriding people for not doing it is a bit much.

ive seen fit people unable to re-enter a boat that has no boarding ladder seen cav plates snapped and untold damage to boats and shins/body parts just from people jumping off to cool off or have a pee

[datamile]

Don't do it except for the hat rescues. Should get a bouy and get all the adults practised as you never know who's going overboard.

Have throw the kids in the pool with lifejackets on to give them the kids, and they've fallen off the towables enough times. But surprise falling over in rough seas is whole new game.

[TiNTiN]

Hey guys my dad was a trainer for air sea resuce when i was young and used to tell me how he would take the new recrutes out for there practical on MOB and this is what he would do: whilst going through the bar he would stop to call in to the seaway tower the ask one of the recrutes to take the helm and make there way through the bar. at this point he would walk to the back of the boat and jump overboard without them knowing he was going to do this so that they had to put what they had learnt into practice. LOL. once they all had it down pat they would return to the pontoon for a briefing. very funny but true

cheers TiNTiN

[Bear001]

Lots of good advice here., thanks to all.

I fish solo 90% of the time on the dam. I did get to thinking (after a close call) that if I fell over whilst the leccy was motoring on, I would never be able to swim after the boat. I troll pretty quick and have the autopilot on, so I decided to put my little remote on one of those lanyards around your neck.

I know they come with a wrist thing but I found it too hot/uncomfortable on a muggy 40deg day.

I have not thought of the MOB drill. The torch at the back will now become fixture for night fishing -again, thanks for great ideas, the fulla's having a leak over the back with a couple of beers under their belt are my main worry.::)

Cindy

[QF3 MROCP]

While you have some time over New Year break, consider having a test run for MOB.

QF3 MROCP
www.vhfradiocourse.com (http://www.vhfradiocourse.com)