Positive bouyancy question.

[rando]

Can anyone tell me how much foam I would need to give an older model Clark abalone CC positive bouyancy.
I have noted that the forward thwart is foam filled.

Clark's current model 4.1 CC is listed at 200kg, I suspect the earlier models were a little less as they appear to have lower freeboard.

Yamaha 40 is about 90 kg
3 blokes with esky, gear,fuel is about 450kg.

So I figure 700-750 kg would be the all up weight.

Can I fit enough bouyancy material under the floor to float 750kgs????

[boatie_72]

Depends if you want to achieve level or basic, for basic you won’t need to take into the account the people.

And if u are chasing level well that means you won’t be able to put all the foam under the floor, you will need to side panel or something similar.

Normally 1 cm3 of foam will support 1 ton. Depending on the foam.

[black runner]

Hi Rando

Take a look at this link at the Marine and Safety Tasmania web site which deals with retro fitting foam for positive bouyancy

http://www.mast.tas.gov.au/domino/mast/mastweb.nsf/v-lu-all/General+Safety~A+Guide+to+Buoyancy+in+Trailer+Boat s/$FILE/BUOYANCY%20IN%20TRAILER%20BOATS.pdf?OpenElement

Cheers

[Chimo]

Why dont you just fit those blow up tubes along both sides of the boat.

Probably the easiest and cheapest and I doubt that you could fit enough foam in the available spots high up enough to be really useful in the boat anyway.

Just my thoughts but maybe gives you another way to solve the problem.

Cheers
Chimo

[rando]

Chimo
Do you mean the sponsons they use for inflatable boats or something else?

rando

[rando]

I researched a manufacturer of those pool noodles today and found they also manufacture Kick-boards, and other swim accessories of the same material.

So I am investigating whether fixing say 40mm thick strips of that all the way around the inside freeboard would be a solution.

That should be about 0.2 cubic metre of foam above the waterline.
with the foam in the thwart and some under the floor I must be getting close to positive bouyancy.

[stinky-stabi]

im with chimo on that one have seen them b4 and they look the go m8....other wise lots of plastic milk bottles

[Chimo]

Rado

I'm thinking of ones that clip to the outside and they are probably 30cm / 40 cm or so in diam.

Do a bit of searching and you'll find them.

I think F & B did a story on them a while ago if I remember correctly, but hell as a GOM, who knows where I saw them?

Cheers
Chimo

[TJ Bear]

I thinbk this is the product your talking about Chimo. If I had a tinny and was using it outside I would be fitting a set in a heartbeat. I am even considering fitting a set to a 445F that does a lot of bar crossings and fishes very wide for a little boat.

[nigelr]

As far as foam is concerned, microlen, made at Gosford, is the best product.
http://www.tfifoam.com.au/product.htm
There are some fantastic posts by one of our members from Tassie, Snelly 1971, on the use of this product, from memory he enclosed microlen on his large ali boat to increase PF.
Do a search for 'microlen', will turn up the various threads concerning its' usage.
I cut a large sheet (2.4m x 1.2m) into wide strips and forced them into the gunnels of my 4.2 tinnie `after a bar 'mishap', well worth the investment IMHO, tho' I hope to never test it! I had about 12.5% of the sheet left over, from memory the sheet was about $270.
Cheers.

[Chimo]

Hi Guys


had a quick look at F & B and I think this covers it :P


Cheers
Chimo
http://www.seamedia.com.au/sea_library/surveys.php (http://www.seamedia.com.au/sea_library/surveys.php)


Introducing our first report on an


invention that whilst not

completely original, is nevertheless

one of the most effective new safety
aids for small tinnies we’ve
encountered in decades. It’s simple,
durable, cost effective and it works.
This could do for small boats what
the wine cask did for the wine
industry – and its inventor!





We first heard about Air-O-Float


Stabilizers from readers in different

parts of Australia who were so pleased
with this new product, we were
encouraged to check it out for
ourselves.
As you can see on these pages, we
subsequently tracked down the system,
and had it installed on our brand new
Stessl dory, the fishing boat we are
using with the new diesel mothership
project. To say that the Stessl is the
lynch pin of the project is an
understatement, as we have gone to
inordinate lengths to develop what is
the fifth dory in a series we’ve
developed over the last 4 or 5 years
through the pages of F&B.
This is a very special boat, with a
degree of sophistication unlikely to be
found in many other small production
craft in Australia. It started life as a
standard Stessl 3.4 m Edge Tracker
Vagabond, before being fitted out to
our special needs by the team at ADM
Marine at Hope Harbour.
This boat is destined to fish places
ranging from the Kimberleys in the
west, to Lady Musgrave Island in the
east, and from the Gulf in the north to
the Clyde River at Nelligen in the
south, so it’s been created with a very
diverse range of tasks in mind – all of
which are common to thousands of
boatowners and readers across
Australia who love small craft and
target fish species ranging from trout to
barramundi.
Like so many of our readers, we too
are very safety conscious in small
craft, and in the northern waters, aware
of the growing menace from
crocodiles, let alone the perennial
dangers of small craft capsizes and
sinkings – all of which can ruin a
perfectly good day’s fishing!
The problem with all small craft is
just that –






they are all small craft! As


such, we tend to forget sometimes

what they are, and take them into






16

AIR-O-FLOAT STABILIZERS!

Fisherman & Boatowner
F&B’s
Small Craft
Section
Copyright SEA Media Pty Ltd (F&B#62 - 2/2001) from www.seamedia.com.au (http://www.seamedia.com.au)
also looking to build a
lifeboat, should the worst ever
happen offshore.
Initial Stessl Trials






As you


can see in the photographs,

the initial trials with the Stessl






without




the stabilisers, was


moderately successful – but

only just.

Even with the deeper ‘hire
boat’ safety seats, the Stessl
was an ungainly, unstable
survival platform to say the
least.
Whilst it would clearly
support the crew of three (see
pic) sitting on it, the trim was
sensitive and it was felt that in
choppy or rough water, it
would be extremely difficult
to keep all three bodies on the
bottom of the boat whilst it
was in an upside down
position.
Two people were much
better, and with Glenn Sanders
and his son Evan, was
tolerably acceptable – but
remember, this is a boat
without the outboard, and ancillary
gear such as you would have if the
battery was locked into the boat by the
tie downs that you need when the boat
is working normally.
Left in the upright position, as if the
boat had been swamped by a bigger
wave, the situation was very similar,
although two people again stood a fair
chance of staying afloat in the boat.
Armed with a bit of cunning and a
bucket, we discovered that one person
inside the boat could bail it right out
ready to go again, providing the
second person trod water and pushed
the crocs and sharks off with his feet!
The moral of the story here is very
simple. As the, um, heavier person who
would have to jump in the water while
Ruth bailed, we’ve decided (no,






belay


that,




I’ve decided!) that we’re


definitely going to proceed to pour our

collar of foam under the gunwales of

the Stessl, very bloody quickly!





The AIR-O-FLOAT


Stabilizers






There is a


simple, essential genius to

these things. They are so

simple to use that A-O-F’s
Doug & Judy Hemingway are
destined to make their fortune
out of this product.
It consists of an aluminium
bolt rope track (see pic) set at
a predetermined length about
200 mm apart on both sides of
the boat. The top and bottom
tracks can be fitted by nuts
and bolts, rivets, Sikaflex –
whatever you wish. Ours are a
mixture of Sikaflex and
stainless steel bolts and nyloc
nuts.
To install or mount the
stabilisers, one merely slides
the “Dee” shaped inflatable
sections along the bolt rope
tracks. This takes about 60
seconds on your own, but if
you’ve got an offsider who
can help feed the bolt rope
into the tracks whilst you pull
the ‘sausage’ along the
tracks, then the time is
reduced to about 30 seconds a side.
Pumping up each side takes about 60
seconds a side, and the inherent
friction of the hyperlon tubes holds
them in place. There is nothing to tieoff,
lock down or fix. One merely
slides the tubes into place, pump them
up – and go boating.
To take the Air-O-Float Stabilizers
off each side takes all of 10 seconds –
it is almost instantaneous. Undo the air
valve, the air rushes out, and the Air-





Fisherman




& Boatowner
17


HOW MUCH DO THEY COST ?

Air-O-Float Stabilizers:

Length Weight Rec.Retail
6’ 0” 5.5 kg $435
8’0” 7.5 kg $473
10’0” 9.5 kg $509
*Note - The Stabilsers are available to special
order in virtually any length or colour.
The standard colour for the Stabilizers is (this) blue. They are
available in this colour ex stock; one offs take extra time.
Copyright SEA Media Pty Ltd (F&B#62 - 2/2001) from www.seamedia.com.au (http://www.seamedia.com.au)

[cormorant]

I have been on a boat with the air sponsons attached to the boat and although I could see some advantages there was some disadvantages as well

At the dock the boat was very unstable to get in and out of as you were 30cm further out from the dock and could only step on edge and kept wanting to step on the sponson. Maybe they were mounted too high but they need a fair bit of angle and weight on them before they take any weight. The ones I saw didn't seem real heavy duty material or the way they wee fastened.

The can deflate and puncture.

I'll go back to the start and basically say if your boat wasn't designed to go offshore and you are taking it there then you have an issue to start with.

What is the point of a hull that if flipped is quite high out of the water and quite instable as I would rather something sort of 50% in and 50% out for stability to hang on to as I know it wouldbe unlikely to flip back over on me. It is not like you can flip it back over and you are in a survival mode if it happens.

I would think solid foam configured like the tenders buffers that support yacht / sailing clubs and sail training organisations doesn'tsick out as far and is well scured solid foam covered in a very durable UV proof nylon type webbing It at least won't deflate and if properly designed will offer some support if swamped earlier than the air ones. Foam under the gunnels is good and in voids but only the propper stuff.

Anyone goat access to the ones the "overwater " helicopters have attached to their skids. Best of both worlds ( might be a spare set from that seaworld carpark crash) - compact and yet can inflate if needed??? $$$ might be an issue

I notice a couple of commercial boats in teh UK have them mounted on the roof of the cabin to give them self righting force in case of a capsize and a few center consoles are storing jackets and life box ring on cabin top for a similar reasin ( and teh fact they have no storage)

[oldboot]

The simpleset way to visualise flotation is the 1 litre per 1Kg.
Because that is how much water you need to displace that much water.

so
10cm cube = 1L
1cm x 10cm x 100cm = litre
or more practically
5cm x 30cm x 100cm = 15L - 15Kg.....now that is a seat cussion. if you make up your seat cussion using suitable flotation foam... ther are two of those in an average tinny. Be more cumfy do the 10cm luxury cussion and you almost have a standard person floated between 2 cussions......remember the standard only thinks you weigh 75Kg :oops: . well may be you skinny girlfriend then.:gorgeous: ......:oops: Oh that is your wife... bang goes that theory;) .

All right then... two luxury cussions will float the girl off the boating add... the skinny one;D

If u take up with a tape and a calculator and a gredy eye for flotation you can find quite a but of extra floatation places......notice also that the current and later boats have wider and deeper seat thwarts..

A small ppp piece here and a small ppp piece there.

poking a few extra bits here and there in the savage, I added an extra 120Kg odd of floatation....add that to the existing...and there is still up under the bow yet to be filled.

cheers

[stinky-stabi]

my 16ft boat has 1515 litres of reserve bouyancy (9.5 44gallon drums)and no foam
good luck rando ......shoulda bought a stabi m8...lololololololololololol..pmsl

[Bowser]

Clarks Rubber sell closed cell foam in sheets, 2x1.2 from memory, available in a couple of different thicknesses. This is the best floatation as it is oil and petrol resistane, doesn't absorb water and off course floats. The other thing that you can use and it can be free is old 5 litre oil bottles. Seal these and put them under the floor.

[nigelr]

Bought the microlen sheet I used from Clarke Rubber. Top quality stuff.
Went for 'under gunnel' flotation rather than 'under floor'.
Cheers.

[oldboot]

my 16ft boat has 1515 litres of reserve bouyancy (9.5 44gallon drums)and no foam
good luck rando ......shoulda bought a stabi m8...lololololololololololol..pmsl

Yeh but I, don't know what would be worse.... drowning or being seen in something soo uggy:grin: .

& from what I hear they need that floatation for when they trip over:uhoh: ...;D


cheers

[stinky-stabi]

Yeh but I, don't know what would be worse.... drowning or being seen in something soo uggy:grin: .

& from what I hear they need that floatation for when they trip over:uhoh: ...;D


cheers

so your hearing aint to crash hot i guess:wreck:... and wot boat doesnt when it goes over ya:smash: .....wats uggy:clown: is that like warm ,,,doh ...pmsl...lolololol

[cormorant]

To teh stabi owners remember the boat in the Torres straight. Thats what can happen with air as a floatation. It has to be foam filled for me to be happy. Yep extra weight but not much.

I know people actually pressure test the air buoyancy cells when new but what about in 10 years time with small pin prick holes and none drains anywhere for a bilge pump to work.

I like my boats to have access to all compartments so you can fix em and check em.

[rando]

Stinki -Stabi.

18moths ago I bought an on site caravan at Iluka. The Clarke 15 ft CC with 35 merc was in the annex and cost me nothin.

You should have bought a van,,,,, lolololololo pmsl,,,, all the way to the bank;D;)

[black runner]

To teh stabi owners remember the boat in the Torres straight. Thats what can happen with air as a floatation.

Did anyone see the story on 4corners about the 'Malu Sara' Torres Straight incident? Absolute cock-up from the letting of the tender to build and fit out of what turned out to be poorly constructed craft not fit for intended operations, right through to the woeful rescue response.

It was a sad day for the families and friends of those lost and a shameful performance by the fed government, Immigration dept, and search and rescue coordination.

Cheers

[cormorant]

Very sad, had me so angry at the idiots we employ in government to be so negligent. The lack of action was astounding.

There was another thread about it and everyone had the same disgust.

Just one more reason not to like air floatation in the formulae for buoyancy

[rando]

I am liking my EVA sheets idea, more and more, if the numbers add up.

40-45 mm of kick-board material from gunnel to floor sikaflexed in place.
Just as an estimate the gunnel to floor measurement, I would put at 700mm
lined all the way around should be about 10 metres at 45mm thick, thats 0.315 m3 of eva foam. The pod on the back should hold 0.21 m3. A few slabs of it under the floor and the foam in the thwart & we should be there.
It will probably offer good noise insulation too.

Can anyone see a flaw in my thinking. With the foam attached above the normal waterline it should float upright if swamped????
I realize this wont win a prize at the Concourse D,elegence, but thats not the point of the exercise.

[nigelr]

Excellent score with the boat Rando!
You are right, the foam does cut the noise level somewhat, every bit helps!
Adds a little comfort to the gunnels also!
I went the microlen because of its' UV and chemical (saltwater, fuel) resistance, as well as its' relative high density.
Cheers.

[rando]

Nigel

The way i plan to use it, the foam would be subject to contact from people and gear etc.
So the EVA looks to me to be more durable.
I still havent heard from the manufacturer on availability or price. So this might all be "pie in the sky" yet.

[oldboot]

EVA isn't a bad choice... unless you are getting fussy then you should go for the "proper Stuff"......another choice is PE foam.. it is considerably cheaper than EVA but not quite as good looking. and very little choice of colour.

If you are costing foam.... let your fingers do the walking......jacksons foam & vinyl at raceview, I have always found very competitive and helpfull......aparantly there is a crowd over a gebung that are very competitive too.

cheers

[cormorant]

I am liking my EVA sheets idea, more and more, if the numbers add up.

40-45 mm of kick-board material from gunnel to floor sikaflexed in place.
Just as an estimate the gunnel to floor measurement, I would put at 700mm
lined all the way around should be about 10 metres at 45mm thick, thats 0.315 m3 of eva foam. The pod on the back should hold 0.21 m3. A few slabs of it under the floor and the foam in the thwart & we should be there.
It will probably offer good noise insulation too.

Can anyone see a flaw in my thinking. With the foam attached above the normal waterline it should float upright if swamped????
I realize this wont win a prize at the Concourse D,elegence, but thats not the point of the exercise.


If you hapen o fluke the exact balance and amount of foam in a millpond you might if you sit very still. The idea has come from american lakes and is better than nothing but not as good as all the marketing will lead you to believe. It has been used by the big manufacturers to raise the bar to make it harder for smaller manufacturers . You'll be covered in fuel or oil and sit will be floating around you and probably tangle you up. You'll watch the foam gradually peel off as the bond to the ally fails

10 years down the track you'll possibly have the acids from the wrong type of sikaflex corroding the ally. The salt water trapped between the foam and the ally might cause issues. The 20% weight of water the foam may absorb over time won't help.

Not being a arsehole just pointing out some things people should think about as it isn't only cost as the reason manufacturers don't do it.

[rando]

Cormorant
Not trying to pick nits. here but the idea came from trying to figure out how to stay afloat if swamped. The realization that flotation under the floor will cause it to float upside down leads to using a different method and product.

Are you sure that it will absorb 20%of its weight ??? That certainly is an issue!

As to sikaflex being the wrong fixative, no problem, Ill use something else, and put some spacers behind it to prevent trapping water there.

thanks for bring up those potential problems.

[cormorant]

Yeah I know

they test the quality foams and they still absorb a little when brand new. With age they may get worse. Water absorbtion has been an issue with all commercial foams for the last 30 years be they pour in or slab. No ventilation, corrosive, fuel environments with UV and heat all have added to the problems. The up to 20% is a number out of my bum but the old polystyrene was worse than that.

Having been in a swamped boat in a bay ( transom torn in a ally after a log strike) I tell you the floor air and floatation did make the boat unstable but kept it on the surface and conditions were flat so it stayed right way up. There was no way we were staying in it as the motion and being scared of it turning turtle and us being injured was far to great. In so many ways we wished that boat just sunk by the transom and we could have held onto the bow ( air ) as it would have been stable until we got our breath and a nearby boat heard us. Becuase the water inside the boat is not connected to the water outside the boat it acts oddly. The gunnel floatation would barely ave been supporting this boat as it still had a little freeboard . Perhaps a few big holes with an axe in the sides may have helped the stability as the water would not have being trying to get in or out all the time.

In terms of being safe in the ocean with a swell in that situation I might keep a small tether to the boat but would feel safer in the water with a jacket on so as not to get bashed about and the tether would just be to stay with a bigger easier to find object for radar and teh fuel slick and cut the tether if it was going to the bottom.

Have been on a boat that picked up 2 guys of a upturned cat , now that was a stable capsize , they could had a tea party on it but were still struggling to hang on to a smooth hull with only a small rope through the winch eye to hang on to. Wasn't level , ie nose up but stable as. They had slowed to see why the boat wan't trimable and performing and it was that one hull was half full ( no foam) with a crack and it slowly rolled. They in hindsight should have kept running on the plane but you don't know that at the time.

Foam to keep something on the surace I think is ok- the level floatation lark hasn't got me convinced but keeping something afloat is a good idea

Good life jackets , life rings, individual GPS epirbs personal ( F#$# the boat I want them to find me) or boat epirb attached to my jacket and big bilge pumps all add up to me. Foam in airtight compartments is a goer as I wan something like a boat to hang on to but I don't want a bloody cork on the surface or a unstable rolly polly log.

For the money on foam and time you are getting near the value of a valaise 3 man life raft that is designed to safe your life

[oldboot]

If you hapen o fluke the exact balance and amount of foam in a millpond you might if you sit very still. The idea has come from american lakes and is better than nothing but not as good as all the marketing will lead you to believe. It has been used by the big manufacturers to raise the bar to make it harder for smaller manufacturers . You'll be covered in fuel or oil and sit will be floating around you and probably tangle you up. You'll watch the foam gradually peel off as the bond to the ally fails

10 years down the track you'll possibly have the acids from the wrong type of sikaflex corroding the ally. The salt water trapped between the foam and the ally might cause issues. The 20% weight of water the foam may absorb over time won't help.

Not being a arsehole just pointing out some things people should think about as it isn't only cost as the reason manufacturers don't do it.

This is a typical bunch of clap trap and half truths I have heard sprouted by a variety of people who try to justify not even attempting to improve the flotation in boats....... just like the bunch of crap that we heard sprouted allong with the introduction of seat belts...and a whole pile of other safety issues.

1 any flotation is better than a boat that will sink like a stone, 2 any flotation that make some effort in distributing the floatation properly in the hope of the boat floating right way up is better than not.

Any boat that floats sort of upright and can then be bailed out has to be a real good thing.... particularly if you are the sucker in the water at the time.

There have been all sorts of people arguing against all sorts of compulsory safety measures since they were concieved.



As far as fluking the balance......perhaps a some thaught and perhaps a very small amount of maths is better than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Big manufacturers raising the bar to squeese out small manufacturers... sounds like a pile of sour grapes and inability to cope with changing times on behalf of small manufacturers to me......of perhapssomeone who relies on building a cheap boat.

Being covered in fuel and oil.......so what has that got to do with flotation......so how much fuel will come out of a proper marine fuel tank that is properly secured in a swamping, and where is all this oil going to come from........so would you rather be "up to your kneck in fueL and oil" with a boat sort of right way up or bobbing around in the middle of the great blue.

Acids from the wrong type of sicaflex........Sica would like to have a chat with you.

the fear of corrosion, incorrect foams and adhesives is a workmanship and specification problem...... nothing to do with the benifit of anyform of flotation.

prepare the aluminium properly and use an appropriate adhesive and you'll have to carve the stuff of with a blade.....if you need to do this have plenty of blades

as for absorbing 20% water over the life of the foam........so what foam are we specifying........ and are you talking about a boat that permanently has water in its bilge.....this is a great half truth.
Besides if the foam has 20% moisture... it still retains arround 80% flotation.

In all fairness there are problems with certain foams that have been used in the past... in particular the mix and pour areated foams that have been used and most respectable boat builders strongly recomend against.

if the boat is generaly stored high and dry and the foam is not enclosed and alowed to transpire....it will almost completly dry out between uses...... even if it is a mix and pour foam.

This is why microkleen is strongly recomended...it does not exhibit these problems.

OH..... speak to the dedicated black fellas up north who care for the place by picking up stuff that washes ashore........thongs ( eva foam)float so long they
grow barnicles and just keep floating.

All these arguments against flotation are old, poorly considered and in the most part overcome by correct selection of materials and a little bit of thaught.

cheers

[cormorant]

Oldboot

The problem with retrofitting is that people don't use the righ glues, tools , maths materials or designs. They use stuff for things it was never designed for.

If you own a small tinny with no electrics go to the water and pull the plug and have a play.

If you look at the design changes the manufacturers have had to do it is substantial.

Changing original design can void your insurance

Can only suggest people get professional advice and have a good read on how water reacts inside a open topped container in water. If you can't understand the terms, maths and calculations get someone who can. Look past a millpond and go sit in the bath now with a tupperware container. Stick a bit of foam on it here an dthere and see how it reacts empty . full and with a bit of swell. Ya kids will love the extra parent time they are getting.

I'm off for a walk on the beach to grab a few extra thongs and broken boards to put under my tinny floor that isn't screwed down as I'll feel safer. If I have any extras I'll make up a thong and milk bottle life jacket.

I must ask if you think out=r floatation standards are good? USA has had better ones for yeras I think? Why aren't ours at least equal to them?

[Fish Lips]

....If I have any extras I'll make up a thong and milk bottle life jacket......

;D
That was funny.

Good thread fellas, keep it coming, learning so much

cheers

[rando]

OK
I picked EVA on the basis that i saw it was available in relatively thick sheets, that its is commonplace, and therefore should be easily and cheaply available. Its flexible so i can easily persuade it to fit nice and neat, and its durable, so it wont get too gouged and compressed from use. Also it is available in a rainbow of colours so i could make it look good if i got enthused. I have only safety colours in mind atm

If there is something better and cheaper etc I'm all ears.
Because as she stands at the moment if "Mullet" took on water I would be floating all alone in the briny cause she would sink like a stone.

Correct me if I'm wrong but someone mentioned a 3 person valise raft ,, that would cost in the thousands I would think.
Whereas I hopeI can get a survival platform for a fraction of that.

Ps
Cormorant, the floor is screwed down nice and solid, but that wont help me if she is full of water, any flotation I do fit will be fixed, not loose,

By the way, yes i have put a largish bilge pump in, 900lt/m from memory. I am also considering a double action hand operated bilge pump from off one of my previous sail boats, but then,in a small boat a couple of 20lt buckets would be just as fast

How much do you charge for the milk bottle vests::)

[cormorant]

Shsss I'm trying to corner the market in milk bottle tops. I want to have the rules changed so only purple ones are allowed and every 6 months change the colour so i have a permanent retirement income. Off to the patents office and to bribe a politician or 2. They are cheaper in bulk?

With foam in boats I am just trying to say a lot of thought has to go into it if you really expect level foatation and for it to last. 'm not against it. Hope no one ever ends up in he situation whee they need it.

[oldboot]

fair is fair... there have been some valid points raised in this thread from a variety of angles.

It is important to spend that little extra time and thaught before you start slathering goo and sticking foam or whatever to your boat.

Oh there is a very big difference in adding some flotation to a small open boat and modifying the design of some fancy rich mans boat.

Consider that thye majority of small tinnies are both uninsured and possibly underfloated.... a bit of carefully considerd flotation won't go astray.

consider also, the flotation installed in the thwart seats in the majority of small aluminium boats is ( still) either styrofoam or another mix and pour foam that would be considered inappropriate in "serious boat building".
This is not a problem because this flotation is neither immersed in operation or in permanent contact with water....AND.. it is open to drainage and transpiration so it can dry between uses.


Because someone may not apply the principles correctly, is no reason not to employ a safety measure.... on the contrary we should be encouraging serious thought about the matter and not saying it is all too hard.

This is sufficient concern that one of the southern states (vic or tas, cant remember) is activly encouraging people to improve the floatation of their boats and publishes a brocure on the matter.

cheers

[black runner]

f

This is sufficient concern that one of the southern states (vic or tas, cant remember) is activly encouraging people to improve the floatation of their boats and publishes a brocure on the matter.

cheers

It's by Marine and Safety Tasmania OB see below

http://www.mast.tas.gov.au/domino/mast/mastweb.nsf/v-lu-all/General+Safety~A+Guide+to+Buoyancy+in+Trailer+Boat s/$FILE/BUOYANCY%20IN%20TRAILER%20BOATS.pdf?OpenElement

Cheers

[oldboot]

Yep thats the one.

Anybody reading this thread should follow that link and read it.

cheers

[alcam2001]

Not wanting to derail the floatation thread...... but a number of threads mention the issue of occupants 'swimming in fuel' in the event of a swamping or capsize. Is there some background to this ? Does the fuel connection somehow rupture, or do the breathers pour big amounts of fuel out ? (instead of just a dribble). Just wondering - never been in a swamp/capsize, but the fire hazzard aspect is worrying.

[cormorant]

Depends on the set up, inboard, outboard, tote tanks but not a lot of fuel or oil but it only takes a little bit to make agreat big slick and still get in your eyes and all over you. The motion in water is possibly spitting a little out the breather with every swell.

[Fish Lips]

Hopefully the fuel slick keeps the SHARKS away!

;D

[cormorant]

I always assumed that any scent would attract attention.

[Fish Lips]

I always assumed that any scent would attract attention.


Sounds like a challenge for the boys on "Mythbusters"

Will dousing yourself in petrol keep sharks away, or does it drive them into a wild feeding/sexual frenzy, where they either eat you or hump you.
;D

[rando]

Sounds like a challenge for the boys on "Mythbusters"

Will dousing yourself in petrol keep sharks away, or does it drive them into a wild feeding/sexual frenzy, where they either eat you or hump you.
;D
End result is the same isnt it:-X

[moater]

Pictures from a yank site regarding fools that use empty milk bottles etc.::)

[Fish Lips]

End result is the same isnt it:-X


Dinner and a movie first would be nice.

I don't just put out for the first horny shark that comes along.
;D

[rando]

One has to observe the niceties of life doesn't one.? One cant be giving it up at the first whiff of fish::)

[fishyjoe]

Has anyone used old life jackets stuffed into the areas in question?

Joe

[oldboot]

don't do it unless you have removed all resembelence of it being a life jacket........otherwise you could be zipped for having "expired safety" equipment aboard.

and to make a significant difference you would need quite a few life jackets.... unless it was a kayak.

cheers

[fishyjoe]

Thanks,

They would be in areas that would not see and the life jackets are new ones (basic $15) and surplus to my needs.

Thanks

Joe

[rando]

I looked at EVA sheets today at Clark Rubber they have a range of densities,in thicknesses up to 25mm, The really dense stuff was rated at 250. Execise mats rate at 30-40, door mats at 90 ( $30/mt though)
Bias had tinny seat cushions, that rated about 50 but they were not stable if exposed to fuel/oil,,,,,,
The search goes on...

[oldboot]

if you are looking for something fuel and oil resistant, you wont have may chioces... and you wont find those choices in a retail foam supplier.

cheers

[seabug]

As you are betting your life on it,why not use the best.

Polyethylene Foam

Easy to shape with a sharp carving knife.
Sticks like the proverbial if you use Marine Sikaflex(I had to remove a piece and it tore the foam ,it sticks so well)

The agents are

http://www.fgi.com.au/?q=one-stop-shop-trade-centres

Regards
seabug

[Reel Nauti]

I know this is going to sound laughable, but many times over the years I've wondered how slightly modified old large gas cylinders would go welded/attached to the exterior of the gunnels. They could be foam filled and sealed for life. And they're gal.

Just a thought...............might be a stupid one though.

Dave

[seabug]

Cerytainly would keep you afloat


I offer to drive the "Wide Load "escort vehicle :o

If you get me a good feed of Reds;D ;D


Cheers
seabug

[Reel Nauti]

hehehe!! Yeah it's sort of hard to describe what I had in mind. They actually be a bit below the height of the gunnels, with wide coamings encompassing them, if you know what I mean. If not foam filled, an air valve could be fitted and just check the pressure every time you fuel up.

Could even do it with a few 9kg bottles and make one a livewell :)

Dreams, dreams..........ahhh the medication begins to bite.

Dave

[cormorant]

Dave you would want to be fast as a BBQ maker is using a lot. BBQ for the boat or heater for the overnighters ( no I won't have flames on boats)

http://www.ozpig.com.au/

[GBC]

Believe it or not ping pong balls are commonly used to keep a holed ship afloat by salvage companies.

[oldboot]

all the gas cylinders I have lumped and humped would be a bit heavy for strapping to a boat unless it was a coal barge.

Gass cylinders in water float barely even when empty.


Ahh the old ping pong balls......definitely used by Daffy Duck and his three lads..... and proven as plausable by mythbusters ... but I have my doubts about an actulal commercial application.

the problem is they will leak out thu holes in the hull.

cheers

[cormorant]

Don't forget bean bag beans - maybe we should all use those pool bean bags

[Fish Lips]

Or better still, just keep one of those floating pool arm chairs in your boat.
As the boats sinking, just plonk your ass into the chair and float calmly away with a beer in one hand and your EPIRB in the other.
8-)