Lifejackets

[L-Plate]

Hello all

Question:
I have PSD1 life jackets that are self inflatable with the canister. These need to be inspected and certified annually at a cost of approximately $40 each. The jackets cost me $100 each. Can I have other PSD1 life jackets on board (say, stowed aboard somewhere), use the self inflatable jackets and still satisfy requirements for safety in Queensland?

Thanks
Jo

PS - we would most likely get self inflatable jackets checked every 2 years or so.

[the gecko]

yes you can.
1 legal lifejacket needed for each POB.
extras dont need to be in date.

[TimiBoy]

Is this certificatyion stuff for real? My understanding is that the cylinder needs to be weighed annually, and the jacket inspected for damage, which can be done by anyone?

This would be an interesting one to clear up...

Cheers,

Tim

[TimiBoy]

Quoted from Marine Safety Qld.

Q: I've heard that I must have my inflatable lifejacket (or PFD) serviced. Is this
correct and if so how often is servicing required?
A: Yes, your inflatable lifejacket (or PFD) must be serviced regularly. Follow the
manufacturer's recommended service program for frequency of servicing or have it
done anually. Be sure to keep receipts and certificates of servicing as documentary
evidence is necessary to show that servicing has taken place.
Keeping a safety equipment log for your boat is a way to record replacement and
servicing of all your safety equipment.
Q: Retailers of PFDs sell re-charge kits for my brand and model PFD. Can I do the
service myself?
A: Self servicing of inflatable PFDs is not recommended. However, should you consider
yourself competent to do your own service you may. Follow the manufacturer's
instructions and ensure the re-charge kit matches your jacket.
Documentary evidence of the servicing is required. Keep the receipts for re-charge
kits and record the service dates.
Q: My inflatable PFD is marked with a date of manufacture that is 6 months before
I bought it. When does my servicing schedule begin?
A: The servicing schedule starts from the date of purchase. Keep your receipt as
evidence. If you can not produce a receipt then the date of manufacture will be taken
as the starting date."

So do it yourself!

Cheers,

Tim

[maztez]

I have just gone through this same rigmorole . I used the cylinders to blow the PFD1 up and left them overnight to make sure they stay inflated . If all is ok you just fill the form out that is printed onto the inner of the PFD , replace the cylinder and repack the bladder .
I bought the new cylinders from Whitworths for just on $20.
Turns out that you can inflate them orally to test them and if there is no corrosion on the cylinder you can reuse same ..saving $$$ .
There was a post on here a while back with a seperate form that can be filled out as well .

[cormorant]

Hello all

Question:
I have PSD1 life jackets that are self inflatable with the canister. These need to be inspected and certified annually at a cost of approximately $40 each. The jackets cost me $100 each. Can I have other PSD1 life jackets on board (say, stowed aboard somewhere), use the self inflatable jackets and still satisfy requirements for safety in Queensland?

Thanks
Jo

PS - we would most likely get self inflatable jackets checked every 2 years or so.



The other jacket still needs to be handy so can't be stored away under a bunk.
Not for bar crossings - you have to put a valid one on be it inflatable or solid
Some smartarse authorities insist that every piece of safety gear on board must be in date. Just tell them that it is a dinner jacket not a safety device.

It is a bad practice to let stuff go ot of date and still have it on board ( I do it but..) as in a emergency you may pick up the wrong gear and it may fail. This can especially happen with guests on the boat or if you are unconscious , it is night, etc etc In that case you cold end up on manslaughter charges or be uninsured as an example let alone losing a mate or loved one.

It also must be said that if I was in a snking boat and had a choice or a cheap inflatable or a solid jacket I would choose a solid jacket every time. Next time you are at the pool grab your normal jacket and jump in - I guarantee you that unless it is a decent brand and offshore rated you'll go out and buy a decent one. The cheap ones might comply but for actually saving your life the extra $60 a jacket to cover the usual crew number will be worth it. Think about your family and it is a easy decision.

[Moonlighter]

Here's the safety equipment log that I prepared some time ago when this issue first came up.

I believe that it will satisfy their requirements for documentation (I based it very closely on one used by marine dealers) but I MAKE NO WARRANTY OR GUARANTEE ABOUT THAT, so if you use it you do so at your own risk!!!!

Whenever I replace any parts such as the gas cylinder I keep the receipt for them, along with the completed safety equipment log form, all in a plastic folder in the boat. More evidence of compliance!!

By the way, these inflatable PFD's need to be inspected at the frequency determined by their manufacturer. The frequency varies between manufacturers : can be every year, or every 2 or 3 years - in fact my particular jackets say in the instructions every 2 years so I only run the official test every 2 years, but I do run my eye over them more frequently to check for any obvious signs of problems/wear etc.

48927

Cheers

ML

[cormorant]

Good list moonlighter


You might want to add - checked weight of cylinder as it is the only way to prove it still has gas inside
Confirm cylinder is correct size , grams
Also - no fading , reflector patch intact and no oil, fuel residue.
Trigger working correctly
Shear tab intact and indicating green

Must be noted that such an inspection is only suitable for jackets that allow self inspection. If the manufacturer doesn't state this even if they sell kits it may not satisfy the authorities or insurance . Suitably qualifies is a wide net and I would ask for a definition.

[sporty1]

Hi Guys

What brand or style of self inflating lifejacket do you recommend. I have heard there are some that look more like a jacket and are comfortable to wear. Any ideas.

[Moonlighter]

Hi Cormorant

Yes, interesting comment about the cylinder needing to be weighed, seen that before and still not sure why that would be necessary.

My question is: can these cylinders leak gas out in a non-obvious way? The way the jackets work is when you pull the pin, the cylinder is pierced and inflates the jacket. It's obvious when they've been pierced or not. Also any damage or corrosion that's bad enough to let the gas out would also seem to be pretty obvious and will lead you to replace the cyl anyway.

So if you've inspected the cyl, no corrosion/damage, and has not been activated therefore not pierced at the top, how else can the gas escape? They are completely sealed units? So what's to be gained by weighing them??

Any info welcomed...

[Trekka273]

Hi Guys

What brand or style of self inflating lifejacket do you recommend. I have heard there are some that look more like a jacket and are comfortable to wear. Any ideas.

I just purchase a Stormy Seas auto-inlfation jacket...extremely comfortable to wear, nice and warm in winter and the slevves zip off for use in summer.

This is the one that I got

http://www.stormyaustralia.com/popup_image.php?pID=33&osCsid=704a5a9ff3ca7cc09ce3d695af7e3b00

They aren't cheap, but they are very, very good.

[cormorant]

They can leak out the seal , never have been filled , be porus . It's just part of the procedure and if they don't weigh up you know you ahve a problem.

[thylacene]

Just bought a pair of Stormy Seas Jackets, almost worth their money just as a waterproof jacket, light comfortable and warm. Zip out sleeves for summer that can store in a pocket in the back. Bloody great idea I reckon. Tamar Marine are flogging them for $305 cost $16 to post two of them to Canberra. The inflator is on the left upper chest area and I didn't notice it at all while wearing it. Also did not feel like taking it off at any stage (it is winter after all). You also regain some storage space by not having to have bulky vests stored. What price storage?

I like to put at least one whole breath in the manual inflater (thats usually all I need in my BC when diving) just to ensure that I float if I hit the water.

Cheers

Thy

[black runner]

Just had a look at my Stormy Seas which is a manual inflate. In addition to the overnight inflate test, physical bladder and cylinder inspection, the service checklist says to also replace bobbin for the auto inflate models every 12 months (recreational) and 6 months (commercial).

As a matter of interest does anyone know what the weight difference is between a charged and discharged 25 gram cylinder?

Cheers

[thylacene]

Just had a look at my Stormy Seas which is a manual inflate. In addition to the overnight inflate test, physical bladder and cylinder inspection, the service checklist says to also replace bobbin for the auto inflate models every 12 months (recreational) and 6 months (commercial).

As a matter of interest does anyone know what the weight difference is between a charged and discharged 25 gram cylinder?

Cheers


Yep, it is 25 grams difference. Air/gas that is not under pressure does not (for the sake of this discussion) weigh anything.

[finga]

There's a couple of points here that do not make sense to me.
(1) the first 12 months of service is not from manufacture date but from date of purchase. This means that a jacket could be 3 years old but still OK and legal if your've just brought it for another 12 months so the jacket is 4 years old before the first service. Because of the price of these jackets this could quite well be a possibility. Why the difference if the canisters can leak etc etc?
(2) replace bobbin for the auto inflate models every 12 months (recreational) and 6 months (commercial). Why the difference in time period??
Don't get me wrong...I reckon they're brilliant things to have but there's just a few things that don't make sense to me...maybe I'm just a bit thick?
Cheers Scott :)

[ozscott]

I have a Lazilas one that is a manual deployment canister. I bought it just before they had to be certified with PFD 1 WRITTEN on them or they were non-compliant. Mine is handy for having on when fishing but if I was in really bad conditions or a bar crossing on goes the Hutch Wilco from NZ - very comfortable for an traditional jacket - super soft. I dont trust the inflatable ones from the puncture perspective...but better than nothing.

I think its crazy that what were clearly PFD 1 jackets are non compliant just because the manufacturer didnt stamp them as such...having said that I always have heaps of standard PFD 1 vests on board so I can wear what I like. Its funny how big the inflatables go - you end up looking a lot like a toad.


Cheers

[sharkymark2]

Just checked my auto inflatable that I purchased at the Brisbane boat show 2008. It had a manufacturers date of 11/07. Hmmm so now off to Whitworths to buy a new cartridge. Might check Bias Boating at Underwood as they are the ones I bought it from.

[black runner]

Yep, it is 25 grams difference. Air/gas that is not under pressure does not (for the sake of this discussion) weigh anything.

Yep probably one of the more dopey questions I've asked lately. I asked the question after looking at my cylinder last night and couldn't see the gross weight. Checked again this morning in better light and there it was - min gross weight 101.79gms.::)

As far as 6 mths for the commercial bobbin replacement, I guess its because they [the bobbins in a commercial environment] have more exposure to a damp and could deteriorate and inflate prematurely?

Cheers

[White Pointer]

The other jacket still needs to be handy so can't be stored away under a bunk.
Not for bar crossings - you have to put a valid one on be it inflatable or solid
Some smartarse authorities insist that every piece of safety gear on board must be in date. Just tell them that it is a dinner jacket not a safety device.

It is a bad practice to let stuff go ot of date and still have it on board ( I do it but..) as in a emergency you may pick up the wrong gear and it may fail. This can especially happen with guests on the boat or if you are unconscious , it is night, etc etc In that case you cold end up on manslaughter charges or be uninsured as an example let alone losing a mate or loved one.

It also must be said that if I was in a snking boat and had a choice or a cheap inflatable or a solid jacket I would choose a solid jacket every time. Next time you are at the pool grab your normal jacket and jump in - I guarantee you that unless it is a decent brand and offshore rated you'll go out and buy a decent one. The cheap ones might comply but for actually saving your life the extra $60 a jacket to cover the usual crew number will be worth it. Think about your family and it is a easy decision.

G'day,

You don't put a life jacket on for fashion and you don't keep one to satisfy a regulation. You have it to save your life. So having one that may or may not work is a desperate situation is foolhardy. Make sure that you and each passenger has a fitted life jacket before you leave port and that it is placed where they can get to it quickly.

Thanks for starting this post. I have inflatable jackets on my boat and I can't recall having checked them. So I will tomorrow.

Regards,

White Pointer

[Mindi]

Yeah this is a really good thread...

[L-Plate]

Thanks for all the feedback. We were picked up at the Brisbane River mouth on Sunday and had a discussion with some very nice gentlemen in uniform about the status of our jackets. Prior to this, I had no idea of the requirement. I agree that safety needs to be taken seriously. But I am having trouble with paying a service fee every year of $40 for a $100 jacket. I plan to do the following:

Create a repairs and maintenance log/register and keep on board with receipts.
Visually inspect and manually inflate self inflating PSD1 on a regular basis and investigate ability to service canister ourselves or service no greater than every 2 years.
Review and Purchase other PSD1's not requiring annual servicing and use according to conditions.

Safety is important and opinions will differ - thanks for all of your input.

Jo

[the gecko]

I had the same issue, and I self serviced for $22. Make sure you do fire the cannister, not just blow it up manually and re use the cannister.

You need to know the firing pin will actually open the gas.........

leave the pfd inflated for 24 hrs to make sure theres no leaks in the pfd itself.

label the inside of the jacket with the test date. Copy the receipt for the $22 and keep it in you boat/wallet/tacklebox.

cheers
Andrew

[honda900]

There was a post a while ago now of a bloke in a tinny (Brisbane) who got booked for carrying non compliant jackets on his boat while he had compliant life jackets as well.

There was also another post of a guy who got booked for carrying old flares on his boat even though he had new ones. (emergency spares).

Changing the cylinders every 12 months seems to me to be a ploy by the manufacturers to generate annual revenue. I could understand if the Jackets had reached 5 years old and required annual maintenance.

Finga, your right on both points, doesnt make sense, the water police check the stamps on the Jackets so I dont understand how a reciept will help you.

I do agree safety first, I even make me and the deckies wear a jacket crossing bars that dont require it.. I would hate to be in an accident situation and not have given everyone onboard the best possible chance I could.


Regards
Honda.

[cormorant]

I had the same issue, and I self serviced for $22. Make sure you do fire the cannister, not just blow it up manually and re use the cannister.

You need to know the firing pin will actually open the gas.........

leave the pfd inflated for 24 hrs to make sure theres no leaks in the pfd itself.

label the inside of the jacket with the test date. Copy the receipt for the $22 and keep it in you boat/wallet/tacklebox.

cheers
Andrew



I don't agree with this above statement but do what the manufacturer requires. The firing spikes on many look very poor quality and I want mine sharp and fresh for when I need it not for a test firing. The way the whole firing mechanism is attached and the stress it is under when you yank it is pretty harsh on a jacket so as few a times if ever is a better option in my opinion.

Yess I do check it moves and it sharp and pivoting properly but I don't actually fire the cylinder with it.

Check for your manufacturers advice but IU see no reason to feather their pockets.

Maybe I should do that with my amunition as well - tesst it to see if it works - bugger I have to refill it them - hmmm

[the gecko]

Comorant,
Yes thats a good point about keeping the pin sharp, I hadnt thought of that mate. firing the pin would be optional, but reusing the old cannister is illegal. The law requires that a self servicer replaces the gas cannister and keeps the receipt on him as proof.

Honda,
its not a date stamp, its a hand written date on a special label inside the jacket. Anyone could write a new date on it, thats why the receipt is requried. It all sounds like red tape overkill, but you cant blame em for being careful with lifejacket legislation.

cheers
Andrew

[cormorant]

Comorant,
Yes thats a good point about keeping the pin sharp, I hadnt thought of that mate. firing the pin would be optional, but reusing the old cannister is illegal. The law requires that a self servicer replaces the gas cannister and keeps the receipt on him as proof.

Honda,
its not a date stamp, its a hand written date on a special label inside the jacket. Anyone could write a new date on it, thats why the receipt is requried. It all sounds like red tape overkill, but you cant blame em for being careful with lifejacket legislation.

cheers
Andrew



I have seen nothing about having to replace gas canister unless it has been used
Gas canisters expiry date ? Haven't seen it but there will be a best pracise of not over XX number of years

As for the pin it will probably be heat hardened at teh factory so it is not something you can sharpen. If it doesn't look, feel or operate correctly it should be replaced. It is not a individually self maintainable item.

I may be wrong on this Geko - can you supply any reference or documents as if the cylinger weighs correctly and is visually good


The tagging system and receipt carrying is a joke and to have it written that they must be carried on teh boat is beyond belief. A receipt won't save your life.