Waterproof battery compartment???

[thylacene]

OK, have been thinking about managing some of the risk associated with boating, and have come to the conclusion that positive flotation is a good thing, but is still going to leave you stranded if you do get swamped and the battery ends up submerged.

My minimal experience with electricity and salt water has been leaking dive torches, with only a few minutes required to absolutely drain the batteries. Salt water seems to conduct electricity well.

That said, does anyone know of a "waterproof" battery container, where the terminals can be kept dry in the event that the boat is swamped, ensuring that power is available for the bilge pump and starter if required?

I understand that dual batteries provide a level of redundancy, however, if the batteries are just bracketed under the transom, or in the standard plastic container used in many recreational boats, then they will still end up under water if swamped, and are likely to be non-functional in a very short time.

What do others do to address this?

Thanks for your thoughts

Cheers

Thy:ears:

[GBC]

Water tight means air tight, and doing that to a device which vents hydrogen and contains lots of sparks and smoke is generally seen as a dangerous thing.
Batteries continue to work underwater whilst swamped as a general rule anyway, and the amount of time you expect a trailerboat to remian in a position where you can use the radios etc while properly swamped is minimal at best.

[FNQCairns]

What GBC says, in theory a person could always ensure the sides and lid of a box was airtight and the bottom was open to some sensible degree, this could allow for basic air flow and for trapped air to preclude water in the event of a swamping. A bit like those earlier submersible tail lights.

cheers fnq

[Noelm]

I reckon if you are in a situation that your worried about your battery being flooded, then the battery is the last thing on your mind, WTF is more likely to be racing through your brain, mind you, most better thought out boats have the battery well off the floor in a battery compartment that would afford a short while of use before it filled up, or might even be above the water in the event of sh!t happening!

[Dicko]

Short of having your battery above gunwale height (impractical & still doubtful) or a separate handheld radio, you pretty well have to accept if you're swamped to that degree you're relying on your other saftey equip, like an EPIRB and/or flares.

Being swamped to the degree of losing your electrics brings another point of having a manual bilge pump in addition to an electric system.

[foxx510]

Completely cover all terminals and connections with a brush-on sealant or thick lanolin and it's as good as sealed.

[cormorant]

You can buy special batteries and special terminals if you have the coin.

Get a manual bilge pump and also a waterproof handheld and be smart and call in at first sign of trouble so it narrows search area and VMR are at least aware if communication stops to get serious about a search. They seriously don't mind if you keep them updated and tell them all is OK .

[ShaneJ]

A lot of automotive/racing shops sell sealed battery boxes for mounting batteries in the cab. most have provision of connecting a hose to vent the gases somewhere.


Water tight means air tight, and doing that to a device which vents hydrogen and contains lots of sparks and smoke is generally seen as a dangerous thing.I disagree. You could have as much flammable gas and spark as you like, but without a good amount of oxygen its not going to ignite no matter how hard you try.

[ozscott]

I had a feeling that the conductivity of salt water was only marginally better than fresh water and that both were poor conductors...ie they wouldnt die quickly provided the caps were on tight to keep the salt out.

[Reel Nauti]

I've had my tinnie flooded where the battery ended up under water and the bilge pump still pumping it's little heart out. Also, a mate of mine lost his 45 fter one night coming home to Gladstone from the reef. She sprang a plank he thinks, and went down like a lead balloon. He and the crew watched the lights going down into the depths until they couldn't stand the salt in their eyes anymore.

Dave

[Pretzil]

Dave, that is a scary image.

[thylacene]

Thanks all, all of the info is handy.

Have decided that I will take the easy option, and use waterproof coatings on exposed terminals etc for all below the gunnels. Hope to never end up swamped, and would like to be in a position to use the bilge pump. Have a bucket for bailing, but will look into a manual pump.

Fitted an EPIRB from day one, only intend to run around Bermi out to six mile reef etc, but as a beginner in this game I don't want to screw up. 10 cents worth of prevention is worth many of dollars worth of cure in my book. Also have a waterproof GPS that runs on batteries or 12V if available.

If the flotation works as the hype says I think it should be possible to keep the motor running in the event of being swamped if the terminals are isolated. I like the idea of being without propulsion even less than the idea of being swamped.

Cheers

Thy

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Let's get real for a minute.

Firstly, irrespective of whether the boat has level flotation or basic flotation, something has gone seriously wrong.

Scenario 1: Boat swamped. Everyone sitting neatly around the edges? Did you leave the bungs out?

Scenario 2: Strike an object in the water and rips your hull open?

Scenario 3: Weather turns rough and you misjudged the wave. Not enough power to get on it so the boat broaches and rolls.

Solutions:

Scenario 1 is a quick VMR recovery at a managed ramp or you had the sense to run it aground real quick and get the bungs in. After that you pump it out, assess damage and work out if you are just humbled or need to lodge an insurance claim.

Scenario 2 is a desperate situation. With basic flotation you can't be quite sure how many chambers are lost unless the boat is going down fast. With level flotation you may have more choices.

Get everyone into life jackets FIRST. If you have level flotation tie everyone to the boat with 15 to 20 meters of rope. If no flotation or just basic flotation DO NOT tie people to the boat unless you are very sure it won't sink.

Get the EPIRB and activate it as the SECOND step.

If you still have radio and battery power send a MAYDAY as the third step and if you have DSC, all the better.

Scenario 3 is also a desperate situation, except that as soon as the weather turned rough everybody put on their life jackets, didn't they. The master of the vessel realised the seriousness of the situation and alerted a VMR to their situation and position. He pulled the EPIRB out of its cradle and strapped it on. He activated it as he went over the side, with luck. Even though the batteries were dry, all the crap in the bottom of the batteries was dislodged and shorted the cells. But it didn't matter by then. All that mattered was how well the master prepared his passengers and whether he managed to activate the EPIRB.

Maintain you batteries and monitor their performance. But for saving life, work on your procedures for prevention of loss of life and have a practice routine.

For example, when passengers come aboard do you make them fit up a life jacket and make them put where they can get to it quickly? Do you know how to deploy your EPIRB quickly and do you know how to secure it to you? Do you know the flotation standard of your boat and what that means?

Regards,

White Pointer

[TJ Bear]

Good advice white pointer.

[Mr__Bean]

A lot of automotive/racing shops sell sealed battery boxes for mounting batteries in the cab. most have provision of connecting a hose to vent the gases somewhere.

I disagree. You could have as much flammable gas and spark as you like, but without a good amount of oxygen its not going to ignite no matter how hard you try.


Years ago when I was a kid and CB radios were all the go I had a CB radio in my bedroom.

I couldn't afford an electric power pack so I got an old car battery and placed it in a plastic bag inside my wooden wardrobe along with my dads battery charger.

It was fantastic, every now and then I would just turn on the battery charger for the night and all was good.

Up until one night when I turned the radio on and to my surprise there was a massive boom and I blew the wardbrobe door off. Mum and dad came running in and I explained what had happened, dad said it would have been from the hydrogen build up. He was understanding, mum was furious.

She was even worse when about a week later all my clothes fell off the hangars half rotted away from the acid mist that had occurred.

- Darren

[Jeremy]

White pointer, you missed scenarios 4-100. Lots of things can go wrong VERY quickly, and I think you are being very simplistic in your post.

Just for starters scenario 4: crossing bar, wave stands up and breaks over you. Next wave comes and swamps the boat, and a third wave comes and she rolls over. Yes, you logged on with the coastguard, and even informed them that you would call again after you were safely through the bar. 15 minutes passes and you haven't called so they try to raise you, no response so they ask for vessels in the area to report, etc etc. You may or may not have been wearing life jackets - but lets not go there as there have been several threads on ausfish in the last year or two regarding the relative merits or not of wearing life jackets.

My point is that it is just not as simple as you make out. Things can go wrong for many reasons (scenario 5 - fire breaks out in the galley) and they can go bad very quickly. It is all very easy to explain what should be done and in what order on the computer, but very rarely so on the water.

I have been over on a bar. Things went from rosy to gone in probably 10 seconds and there was no time to react.

Jeremy

[thylacene]

To put some context around my original question, the boat in question is a Quintrex 540 Bowrider. According to the marketing hype and the builders plate, it has positive flotation with a load of six people on board, and basic flotation with 7. Given that we are industrial size persons, it is unlikely that we will have more than four adults on board when fishing outside of a bay.

My concern is that the Bowrider while being very family friendly, exposes the front of the boat as a funnel, as it lacks the protection offered by a CC or runabout in the event of a wave breaking over the bow. There is a tonneau cover with pole support, but I have doubts as to whether this would survive a decent wave. We have full storm covers and clears, but as discussed elsewhere on this forum, a big wave can as easily happen on a fine day.

In respect of lifejackets, I scored a pair of the Stormy Seas inflatable jackets for myself and my girlie, and encourage passengers to wear them all the time, not just at bars. I also picked Bermi as port of choice based on recommendations that it is one of the safer entry points (and its supposed to have great fishing). Got to go out four times last week, and never once felt the need to remove the Jacket. The sleeves zip out so I am happy to wear it come summer, my girlie stated the same.

I am happy to admit to having minimal experience, and while I haven't managed to kill myself deep scuba diving and motorcycle stunt riding and racing, I am not quite as confident on water yet. The number of variables is far greater, and unfamiliar observations to be assessed, so until I get a better handle on reading seas and weather, I intend to continue to seek and follow the advice of the locals (who were spot on last weekend) as to whether to venture out.

The thread has generated some interesting conversation. It has raised some questions so I went researching.

Salt water is a better conductor than fresh water, and distilled water does not conduct electricity. It is the salt level that increases the conductivity. Submerged in saltwater, a cable connected to a battery effectively dissolves as the oxidisation is accelerated by the current passing between it and the other terminal working like reverse electroplating.

You only need a very small amount of oxygen combined with hydrogen to have an explosion when a spark occurs as the energy released is usually sufficient to displace covers etc, exposing the remaining hydrogen to oxygen and the rate of burn is so fast that it will appear to be a single "bang".

Thanks for everything guys and gals

[White Pointer]

White pointer, you missed scenarios 4-100. Lots of things can go wrong VERY quickly, and I think you are being very simplistic in your post.

Just for starters scenario 4: crossing bar, wave stands up and breaks over you. Next wave comes and swamps the boat, and a third wave comes and she rolls over. Yes, you logged on with the coastguard, and even informed them that you would call again after you were safely through the bar. 15 minutes passes and you haven't called so they try to raise you, no response so they ask for vessels in the area to report, etc etc. You may or may not have been wearing life jackets - but lets not go there as there have been several threads on ausfish in the last year or two regarding the relative merits or not of wearing life jackets.

My point is that it is just not as simple as you make out. Things can go wrong for many reasons (scenario 5 - fire breaks out in the galley) and they can go bad very quickly. It is all very easy to explain what should be done and in what order on the computer, but very rarely so on the water.

I have been over on a bar. Things went from rosy to gone in probably 10 seconds and there was no time to react.

Jeremy

Jeremy,

You are dead right. I just wanted to present some scenerios that showed how the battery condition was not the most important consideration when things turn ugly. Your scenario 4 of the bar crossing example is a very good example. I agree there are hundreds of stories and some of them will never be told.

Everyone else should feel free to write their own story.

Regards,

White Pointer