New 60 HP 4 stroke Honda for Kevlacat 5.2

[Maccas]

Read in Club Marine magazine that the new 60 Hp 4 stroke Honda is only 110kg . That's even lighter than the Yammie 60Hp 4 stroke. With the new BLAST technology would these be a better match for the KC 5.2 than the Yammies. Anyone had any experience with the Blast motors versus the earlier 4 strokes and does the Blast technology make much of a difference.

Cheers,

Maccas

[bennyboy]

110kg is the same weight as the Yammy

[Maccas]

In F&B magazine they have a price list of most outboard motors and the 4 stoke Yammie is shown as 115kg withe the high thrust model same as what some guys on here are running as 120kg.

Maccas

[Dean1]

Ye mate my yammies are about 120kg.

You may be onto something. What is the cost of a Honda 60? Have you priced one? Garry (Spaniard King) emailed me a vid on the new honda, they look good.

PM me your email and ill flick it to you. I wish somebody would bring in a 70 4 stroke weighing in at 120kg!! Cheers.

[Noelm]

that seems to be th problem, the weights are OK to about 60HP, then they seem to go up very quickly to the next HP range.

[Greg P]

The new Zuke 60s are supposed to be lightest in class now but I havent seen any specs as yet.

The Hondas would be a very nice donk though.

[finding_time]

I haven't seen the honda's yet, but do they come in a high thrust model? As the 60 hp yami and the 60 hp high thrust are a differant beasts and run very differant props. It seems to be the high thrust model that works well on the cats! Comments?

[Spaniard_King]

I beleive 116kg for the 25 inch power thrust model

PM me your email adress and I will send you the media kit (specs) on the new Honda 60

[finding_time]

I beleive 116kg for the 25 inch power thrust model

PM me your email adress and I will send you the media kit (specs) on the new Honda 60


So they do have a high thrust , great! Dont think the weight savings is an issue 3kg per side but it's aways good to have another player in the range! Garry is it like the yami and runs a larger gearbox?

Ian

Ps I have been using a pair of Steel blue Honda hybrids for a few years now:P

[Dicko]

What's this "blast" technology ?

[cormorant]

Welll the manufacturers blurb says





BLAST™

http://www.hondampe.com.au/images/marine/technology/blast.jpgHonda’s revolutionary Boosted Low Speed Torque (BLAST™) air/fuel ratio and ignition-timing technology was first employed in Honda’s BF75/90, released in September 2006.
BLAST™ utilises MBT – Minimum advance for Best Torque – trace control, which is based on basic engine ignition timing theory. By linking the ignition timing control of the engine to the air/fuel ratio, it sets the optimum timing via computer control.
BLAST™ traces the air/fuel ratio that results in the maximum torque for each engine revolution, while simultaneously tracing the maximum knock limit ignition timing that can be obtained using a rich air/fuel ratio in the full throttle zone, and advances the ignition timing to the limit (27°), in order to produce greater torque.
This boost in horsepower and torque at low rpm contributes to strong hole shot performance to get the hull up on plane quickly! BLAST™ ensures strong acceleration to get boats on the plane quicker!

[Dicko]

Thanks.

From that, it looks like it does what most other factory or aftermarkets ECU's do.

It's a bit sad really. Honda usually build good products anyway, they don't need to resort to tacky marketing twists on already used techniques to show they can set up an ECU to manage an engine efficiently.

[FNQCairns]

all
Thanks.

From that, it looks like it does what most other factory or aftermarkets ECU's do.

It's a bit sad really. Honda usually build good products anyway, they don't need to resort to tacky marketing twists on already used techniques to show they can set up an ECU to manage an engine efficiently.

Yeah it's just marketing bulldust, remember the 'O2 advantage' Toyota used in their cars back in 1985:) same dog different leg, not detracting in any way from the engine ability or usefulness as an outboard it's probably very good, just have trouble stomaching the come in spinner labelling of nothing new or special as something that makes a difference because they called it a name.

Gotta expect it from Honda today in every market the hold, just look at the pollution marketing bandwagon they have heavily jumped on to get extra sales from those easily hoodwinked.

cheers fnq

[Scaredy Cat]

Suggest you talk to Steve from Solas, I believe he has been working on props for the new 6o honda's. I beleive it was quite a challange and major redesign of existing props, I dont know the full details but he did state that they have more grunt than others on the market

[black runner]

Looks sweet (and I own a yammie 60), virtually the same cc (just under 1000cc) and weight (110-120 kgs) as the Yamaha. Honda 3 cylinder 12valve compared to Yamaha 4 cylinder 8 valve.

It would be useful to know torque/rpm fiqures for both motors. The absence of this info is something that really p's me off about the outboard industry. It is a critical piece of info that you can only guestimate from checking detailed specs like bore/stroke/No cylinder and hp data. Your average punter with no mechanical knowledge can easily buy the wrong powerplant (based solely on hp) if they don't get decent advice from a reputable/experienced dealer or Ausfish.

Cheers

[sharkymark2]

Anybody got an awesome price on a 60 hp yet? I have got a 2007 yammie 60/4 stroke and paid $7500 for it.

[Dean1]

Anybody got an awesome price on a 60 hp yet? I have got a 2007 yammie 60/4 stroke and paid $7500 for it. Thats a good price mate is that not the high thrust model? Unsure of Honda 60 pricing, my 60's cost about $8500 each for high thrust model. Cheers.

[sharkymark2]

Hi Dean. No it was normal 60hp. I worked out that the 60hp had a heavier gearcase which reduced top speed in normal boats. One of my customers put me on to a guy at bayside marine. They were very helpful but unfortunately now gone. The Aussie dollar has dipped and climbed back alot since I bought mine.

[John Buoy]

Gotta luv the silverware on a cat.
These babies are so economical i laugh as i drive past the servos.
These are only 50's and new Blast 60's would be awesome.
Currently loaded i average 2.7klm's per litre at 4500 rpm
With 190lts of fuel WOT 5900rpm pushing 30knots.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3402/boatataltonaramp003.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/i/boatataltonaramp003.jpg/)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8135/boatataltonaramp002.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/i/boatataltonaramp002.jpg/)

regards Frank

[ozbee]

3.7 klm / litre but at what speed i reckon a tanker would go close to overtaking you.

[ozbee]

i brought the new 50 hp honda when it came out fuel injected with blast.a fart would create more thrust than it would ever produce . other than that i love it though a poor load carrier . personally going back from four cyclinders to three can only mean less fuel burnt when the piston is closet to tdc so as a work force i would say yammy still by a edge. both are still straight block engines i presume correct me if i am wrong.

[John Buoy]

3.7 klm / litre but at what speed i reckon a tanker would go close to overtaking you.

2.7ltrs per klm at 4400rpm cruising 22knots ;)

A bit faster than a tanker ::)

[finding_time]

22 knots is fine,;) if you can sit on that in most conditions it's all you need offshore ! I reckon there might be only 3 or 4 days a year that i wish i had more speed and i reckon there is about 10 trips a year when my crew are glad i dont;) :o

I pretty much live on 23-24 knots( 4700-4800rpm) what ever's going on with the sea and i do slow down abit on dark nights as there are just to many whales around atm!

Ian

Ps those oil tankers can get along, most seem to move at between 15 and 19 knots Berge Ichiban (http://www.ships-info.info/mer-Berge-Ichiban.htm) http://www.ships-info.info/design/Berge_Ichiban.jpg (http://www.ships-info.info/mer-Berge-Ichiban.htm) Tanking about large sailing vehicles we should definitely notice Berge Ichiban. The oil tanker has overall length of 322.95 meters and beam of 60.00 meters. The depth of the board if 29.55 meters and the draft of the VLCC is 18.65 meters, while the ship is fully loaded. The deadweight of Berge Ichiban is 298,552 metric tons and the gross tonnage is 159,397 gross tons. The very large crude carrier has main engine MAN B&W 7S80MC (Mark VI) with total power of 25,490 kW at 79 rpm. The service speed of the ship is 16.00 knots, while the maximum one is 17.1 knots. Ships from the class of Berge Ichiban usually have lower speed and they are clumsier, but this crude oil carrier was designed with high speed with low fuel consumption. The cargo ship was built on February 2000 in the ship-yard Hitachi Zosen (now known as Universal Shipbuilding Corporation. The cargo ship was built for Bergesen D. Y. ASA, which is one of the largest ship-owners of the world. The ship is double hull cargo vessel created according to latest requirements of MARPOL73/78 and IMO. The ship is created with increased protection for marine pollutions, in case of grounding...
date: 9th May, 2009

[finding_time]

I do like the 25409 kw at 79 rpm!!!;)

[Spaniard_King]

Thanks.

From that, it looks like it does what most other factory or aftermarkets ECU's do.

It's a bit sad really. Honda usually build good products anyway, they don't need to resort to tacky marketing twists on already used techniques to show they can set up an ECU to manage an engine efficiently.

Dicko,

Can you PM me where I can buy these aftermarket ECU's I have a sh!t load of suzi,merc and yamy 4 stroke owner wishing to buy one::)

Honda is basically pushing the envelope on Air fuel ratio and ignition timing in conjunction with air intake designs to maximize torque and acceleration when called for. There are strict setup guidelines to enable this to happen (ozbee this could be an issue for yours) Due to CARB and EPA regulations blast can only come into effect when WOT is asked for (hence if cable adjustment is not setup to acheive wot blast will not operate) as thye air fuel ratio is pushed towards 11:1 it pushes the enviromental conditions.. at all other times when not at WOT the engine runs on lean burn technology.

Hope that helps those than need it;)

[Dicko]

Dicko,

Can you PM me where I can buy these aftermarket ECU's I have a sh!t load of suzi,merc and yamy 4 stroke owner wishing to buy one::)



It's not a secret. There are dozens of aftermarket ECU's around.

Why are they wishing to buy new ECU's ?

The old saying of racing improves the breed rings true. The aftermarket companies & factories develop this sort of gear for racing then years later the flow on effects come down to the consumer.

Outboards aren't the place to be trying out "new" ideas. (well, some do), but the japanese are pretty conservative. If anything, the technonolgy in most japanese 4 stroke outboards, (Like EFI & Honda's V-tech) was developed 10 and 20 yrs ago in car & bike racing. What works they keep, what doesn't they throw out.

4 stroke outboards are just derivatives of car & bike engines they've designed & learnt from over the years, just tipped on their end and a leg bolted to them. They haven't reinvented the wheel... or propellor....so to speak. ;D

For the most part, no one wants to piss around with their outboard for fear of upsetting the reliability, and fair enough. Though if one really wanted to, with a bit of thought with regard to compatibility of sensors etc, any adjustable aftermarket ECU could be made to work on just about any EFI outboard. (Remembering they're just a normal 4 stroke motor like any car or bike).

Some companies even offer an ecu designed to plug in as a direct replacement for the factory ecu, using all the original factory sensors .....which thankfully takes most of the brain work out of it. These are mainly for common vehicle applications, wrx's. GTR's, Evo's etc. The GMH & Ford stuff seems easier to use an aftermarket program & rewrite the existing ecu.

I can't see outboards being on the simple 'plug in' list for a while. You'd have to adapt one yourself. But you never know. If there's a market for them, they'll preconfigure them to suit. They may also be an option in yrs to come when the factory stuff is out of warranty and too difficult/costly to repair or replace, or even when people want to modify their 4 strokes to get an edge in boat or ski racing.

If you have people now wanting to replace their factory ECU's, it would be worth tinkering with one of these. All come with the relevant software.

Motec, is one of the major players in the racing world, like most it's infinitely adjustable.
http://www.motec.com.au/home

I see they've now got a plug & play kit for the yamaha PWC's, with seadoo & kawasaki to follow besides the regular vehicles

Haltech offer one that besides all the other parameters, you can adjust hondas V-tech valve timing as well

http://http://www.haltech.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=105&Itemid=20

This one from Vipec is a dedicated marine unit

http://www.vi-pec.com/page_files/marineECU.html

It also has knock control to adjust timing & AFR's, similar to what Honda is promoting.

[black runner]

Gotta luv the silverware on a cat.
These babies are so economical i laugh as i drive past the servos.
regards Frank

Of course this is all about relative economy. Whatever newtech outboard motor fuel consumption figures are quoted it doesn't alter the fact that this form of transport (small planing boats) has appalling fuel efficiency (and emission production) for load carried over distance traveled.

Even the best of figures would leave those outside boating circles scratching their heads thinking how anyone could get excited about 2 or 3km/litre - 50 or 33l/100km. Although to us the advances made in outboard technology has potentially more than halved fuel consumption and bills, I don't think that outboards on planing boats should ever be called 'economical' even if they do have BLAST with an 11:1 air fuel ratio!

Cheers

[insideout]

Of course this is all about relative economy. Whatever newtech outboard motor fuel consumption figures are quoted it doesn't alter the fact that this form of transport (small planing boats) has appalling fuel efficiency (and emission production) for load carried over distance traveled.

Even the best of figures would leave those outside boating circles scratching their heads thinking how anyone could get excited about 2 or 3km/litre - 50 or 33l/100km. Although to us the advances made in outboard technology has potentially more than halved fuel consumption and bills, I don't think that outboards on planing boats should ever be called 'economical' even if they do have BLAST with an 11:1 air fuel ratio!

Cheers

yes i see your point , but who has time to waste with having a job through the week ,and trying to get where ur going at 6 knots via a small diesel shaft driven tub that sucks 2ltrs per 10 kms travelled??? not me im afraid...and id be guessing, most of the working population...

I too look forward to the day that outboard technology can compare to cars at 8ltrs per 100kms.......hmmmmm.... that sounds sweet

[insideout]

I do like the 25409 kw at 79 rpm!!!;)

Dont even think about it , it will not fit...lol;D ;D