I can't believe it's such a WET boat

[Bazzawookooka]

G'day fellow boaties,

I have a question regarding what makes a WET boat or a DRY boat.

Mine's a 5m Trailcraft bow-rider and I just can't get over the amount of water that makes its way over the bow and straight down my back.

For example, coming home from Combie last saturday evening it blew up from the NW and made for a very uncomfortable trip back to bribie. We basically pounded our way slowly across the bay and took water from every second wave.

In comparison, I was recently out with a mate outside Keppel Island in his Seafarer V-Sea. Admittedly the conditions weren't quite as bad, but not a drop hit us the whole day.

I think I'm trimming the boat properly, and I'm definitely slowing down in bad conditions, but I just can't help wondering if I'm still doing something wrong.

Could my rig really be such a wet ride???

Very interested in your thoughts, opinions and advice.

Cheers,

Steve A

[BaitThrower]

If it throws enough water up and the wind is blowing your way, its gonna be wet no matter what. I'm guessing hull shape has a big effect... and then there are those spray chines some boats have which supposedly help reduce the Wet problem.

[Apollo]

Steve

Biggest factors for getting wet or no are:

Wave shape
Speed
Hull shape
Wind direction
Wave direction

Mine gets wet if pushing along at 45 degrees to the waves. a bit of wind and a short chop.

[Chimo]

Hi Steve

If you look at the shape of your boat compared to the other boat you mentioned you have identified the problem. Then you magnify the issue by the other factors that Apollo and BT have listed.

If you dont want to be wet then its not what you were doing while you were in the boat (but I just can't help wondering if I'm still doing something wrong.) its what you did earlier ie when you chose that boat.

Sorry Steve but the issue will be with you for the time you have the boat. The only things you can do in the meantime IMHO are trim the bow up by moving weight to the stern and fitting a bow rail with a spray dodger on it. Only thing is that when you sell the boat if its got a dodger on it then your announcing to all (in the know) that look at it, that its a WET boat

On the other hand you could always quit it and now is not a bad time ie like real estate, sell low buy low.

Cheers
Chimo

[Mindi]

wow this could be a good thread.... I reckon spray rails (on the chine) have a very minor effect....I think bow flare does help as it throws water out a bit ...but if you are going really fast the water will get you, if it is windy and you throw the water up in the air then no amount of flare or spray rail will stop you getting wet....you just have to travel slower in a tinny.

[revs57]

G'day Steve,

I had a 4.5mt centre console bermuda (read quintrex) man it was as wet as in the conditions you are talking about. Put spray dodgers/deflectors on it - didn't make a scrap of difference.

Some hulls by their design are just wet, the same hull in a cuddy would still perform the same, you would have the protection of the cabin superstructure to keep you dry. One thing worth considering maay be taking your new pride and joy to a marine trimmer and having them construct some clears to build your bimini into a semi enclosure that will break any water off you that shipps itself in in a bad sea or direction of travel.

Nearly any hull has its wet spot. In the right conditions I can get my passengers wet if I choose to and the Riptide is an exceptionally dry boat. but if I hit a wave, the right direction hard enough i can get water up and over the cabin to dump in the lap of someone sitting on the transom seat - its good trick to keep my deckies on the ball if they are getting the nodds

It doesn't mean your boat is no good - it just means getting used to its manners, both good and bad, and factoring that into how you drive it, and how you set it up.

[gofishin]

...It doesn't mean your boat is no good - it just means getting used to its manners, both good and bad, and factoring that into how you drive it, and how you set it up. I think this pretty much sums it up.

However, assuming that there was/are no problems with incorrect motor trim, one point that hasn't been raised is the possibility of the hull having a 'hog' in it, forcing the nose down thus making it a wetter boat than it should be (hogs are not that uncommon, especially with a mass produced tinny). Sometimes it helps to see/study how a boat rides from outside it. Got a mate who can take some pics?
cheers

[frogfuzz]

Like REVS says: its often down to hull shape + conditions. I too had a 4.5m Bermuda - very wet boat (used to describe it as a "young man's boat").

Now I hardly ever get wet, and when I do, its stuff all - I'm now in a Stabicraft.

Bazza: Go the spray dodger with the bow rail + trim as Chimo says, what else can you do? It might catch a bit of spray flicking up and over the 'curved' bit of the bow. It might not fit the 'look' of the boat though (if that matters to you)

[nigelr]

Steve my 4.2 stessco catcher is obviously a lesser craft than yours in all ways.
However, with my boat being of 'open' design, I was concerned with the serious risk of taking a wave over the bow while crossing the bar, as well as the 'wet' ride when quartering.
So I had a wavebreaker fitted. The little girl is far more comfortable to drive now!
It cost me about 2.5 - 3 g's from memory for a pro to do one up out of 3mm plate ali and fit it. Included a nice handrail around the edge as well. Not painted, however, as the boat itself is unpainted.
So what I'm saying is for a few grand or so you could probably get some sort of effective modification done, 'cept you would probably want to paint yours in keeping with the aesthetics of the Traily. If you like the boat, might be a worthwhile option to consider.
Cheers.

[death_ship]

get some clears for the sides and raincoats and kidney belts for the poor buggers up front

[marty+jojo]

I thought this thread was going to be about TABS boats.

[Poodroo]

In poor conditions there is hardly any such thing as a "dry" boat. I have been in my uncle's Cruiscraft 685 outsider and copped spray. Generally if the boat kicks up spray which they all do and there is enough wind coming from the either side it will blow that spray straight back into the boat. The bigger the boat the rougher the conditions we tend to take them out in within reason. Just invest in a spray jacket and you will be fine or get some clears made. ;)

Poodroo

[finding_time]

In poor conditions there is hardly any such thing as a "dry" boat. I have been in my uncle's Cruiscraft 685 outsider and copped spray.
Poodroo


Bad bad example Poodroo!!!;) ;) ;D Gees it probably banged aswell!:o :o :-X

[ozbee]

get some 75 mm ally welded on those pathetic spray chimes that boats come with these days . but a open boat is what it is.

[Poodroo]

Bad bad example Poodroo!!!;) ;) ;D Gees it probably banged aswell!:o :o :-X

A little damp, a little bumpy. Didn't exactly give a sh!#, I caught my first decent yellow tail kingfish that day and some nice snapper and pearl perch.

Poodroo

[black runner]

Get yourself some side clears to go with the front ones. Often spray will be drawn in behind the front clears (the venturi effect) as you move forward.

On a smooth day at speed you can often feel little pinpricks on your skin as fine spray is sucked into the low pressure area created by bimini and clears.

Cheers

[stinky-stabi]

Like REVS says: its often down to hull shape + conditions. I too had a 4.5m Bermuda - very wet boat (used to describe it as a "young man's boat").

Now I hardly ever get wet, and when I do, its stuff all - I'm now in a Stabicraft.

Bazza: Go the spray dodger with the bow rail + trim as Chimo says, what else can you do? It might catch a bit of spray flicking up and over the 'curved' bit of the bow. It might not fit the 'look' of the boat though (if that matters to you)

what do you have a cabin model????

[fishn-ads]

All boats get wet I think it got something to do with where there used;)
Tinnys are just buckets (no deck or free board) Saying that Supa tankers get alot of water over them in big seas, it all conditions - proportional to size of vessel.
I think it great to come home soaking wet on a hot summer arvo, not so great on a cold winter morning.

Adam

[Wayne_Red]

Hi Steve
Trailcrafts tend to throw up a fair bit of spay, they have a very full bow which tends to throw the water out front then up and over rather than throw it out the side like your mates vc. The old clarks were had a full bow and very wet.
A mate of mine had a trailcraft 475 and later a 5m in the runabout versions. His 475 was a very wet boat and he put put up with it for some time, he had it back to the dealer a couple of times to make sure the motor was set up right and he was assured it was. (cav plate about 1" above keel)
The first time I went in it I noticed when cruising along the spray was coming out too far forward and we were getting wet in the slightest chop. It would not answer the trim to lift the bow, when it was trimmed up the bow would not lift and the prop started to suck air, inicating to me the motor was too high. We were away for a weeks fishing at the time and this was the first day. After getting back we had a look at the motor and lowered it by 2 holes (just below keel by about 1/2" if I remember), next day it was a different boat, dry in all but very choppy water and would answer the trim like you would expect.
Before the motor was lowered, when cruising the spray was coming out at about the front of the windscreen to level with the driver position (if that makes sence) throwing the water out front and up into your face. After lowering the spray was coming out about 2-3ft behind the driving position, (1/2 way down the boat)throwing it out the side and behind you, hence the dryer ride.
I didn't go in his 5m but he did say it was quite wet (but he did fish every second night in absolute crappy conditions of 20kts +)
My suggestion is you check out where your spray is coming out when normal cruising, looking at you picture I think it should come out about where your winsceen finishes/bimimi pivot point is. When cruising, trim right in through to fully out, you want your boat having a real noticable difference through the trim range. I see you have a foil of some sort on the motor, they are good at lifting the stern but it can also bury the nose (or not letting it lift is a better way of putting it)
Passengers in the bow will also hold the nose down and cause the spray to come out too far forward. I would play around with motor heights, foil on/off weight distribution etc. The further you can get that spray back the better.
A well trimmed dry boat IMO is one that when travelling at speed the spay is coming out about the last 1/3 of the of the boat length, no spray in the front 2/3rds.
Your boat being a bow rider sets you the driver further back of course and will cop more spray than a runabout and in poor conditions when you have a sea on the bow or 45 deg when you have to travel slow you will cop some water, a trailcraft hull will never be in the same league as the old haines hulls as an example but they weren't designed to be either, but good trimming and motor setup I think can help your boat in mild choppy conditions.
I hope this helps
Regards Wayne

[Bazzawookooka]

Guys,

Thanks for all the insights.

I know it's probably not necessary, but I'd like to post some replies to individuals in appreciation, and to cover off some things you've raised for future readers of the thread - so, here goes...

BaitThrower, Apollo, Mindi and Poodroo
For the moment I think you're on the money. It's just a matter of me learning what the rig's capable of and when, and driving to that. I think in future trips I might not just take the direct route regardless, but zig zag a touch to eliminate the 45 degree situations.

Chimo and Frog fuzz
Funny how the obvious can escape you at times - hadn't even considered that it might be time to change. Maybe I just get too attached to my stuff to see the light. The spray curtains or dodger aren't really an option with the current rails and whilst looks aren't really a prob for me, they would probably impinge on its ability as a family / fun boat, which is a comprimise I'm happy with at present, but who knows eh...

revs57, death_ship and black runner
I do have a set of clears that fill in to the rear-most canopy mount, but the bimini is a little short on height and makes it difficult to fish or drive under. So, most of the time I don't even have it on board. I know this falls into "what did you expect, then" territory, but the thread wasn't really about how to keep the spray off, just was it reasonable to be coming in in the first place. Having said all that, it's a surprisingly good ride up front most of the time - great for the kids, but really only used for anchor duty when doing any (serious) fishing.

go fishin
She doesn't appear to have any hogs. The TC is a plate boat so I wouldn't have expected it to anyway. Funny thing though, the TC is of plate construction, but looks like a pressed one due to the pressed sides. For all the research I've done into what makes a plate boat, this seems to be an anomaly. I'd certainly be happy if anyone out there could explain it to me.

nigelr and ozbee
A wavebreaker sounds like a good option, but the rig stretched my budget a little too far in the first place, I just can't see that kind of expense. Not knowing for sure, I've assumed a wavebreaker is similar to the option that ozbee suggests (75mm plate on the chines) but I'm aware of what happens when I assume...

marty+jojo
Please don't think I'm taking the pi$$ but what's a TABS boat???

fishin-ads
Couldn't agree more, Summer is fine, often wet from a swim at the Tangalooma wrecks anyway, but Winter's a whole different ballgame.

Wayne_Red
Thanks for the comprehensive reply. I fear I'm a bit like your mate in that I seem to be drawn to the water on less than perfect days. You know what they say, **it happens. I checked her out yesterday and under normal cruising conditions the spray comes from the right place, near the bimini pivot mount. Out off Caloundra I got wet again, and once again it was the small chop combined with side-on breeze. My guess is that it was over 12kts because there were small white caps evident. Regarding the motor position etc. I have checked it before when selecting a new prop. The crew from SOLAS on the sunshine coast had me check the plate height at cruise (planing). The cav plate made it hard to tell because of all the 'foaming' but I still think the motor might be a single hole too high. Anyway, I installed a 15" 3-blade New Saturn to help maintain forward movement when going into weather and to help the nose stay out of the water when there's someone up front. I suppose I shoud try moving the motor up one notch but I've always been nervous about the weight of the motor and breaking the seal against the transom.

Thanks again one and all, hope to meet some of you out on the water - you know what my rig looks like now so say hi if we cross paths.

Cheers,

Steve A

[Izzey!]

you can get a good raincoat for about $20 would be the cheapest option.

[Chimo]

Hi Steve

Thanks for your comments. If i understand correctly there may be some confusion regarding the spray protection device I was visualising as you referred to it in the following

nigelr and ozbee
A wavebreaker sounds like a good option, but the rig stretched my budget a little too far in the first place, I just can't see that kind of expense. Not knowing for sure, I've assumed a wavebreaker is similar to the option that ozbee suggests (75mm plate on the chines) but I'm aware of what happens when I assume...

and so I will now attempt to be clearer.

Here is an example of something either in plastic or canvas or sunbrella etc that may also be fitted to you bow rail. ie as lifted from a boat test

If there is a gap left at the bow, access should not be affected for your family activities and working the anchor, but spray into the boat should be reduced.


http://www.oceancraft.com.au/6m%20001s.jpg The spray dodger and high sides keep occupants of the 6000 Ocean Series Extreme Fisher quite dry the craft planes with ease, while the air filled cylinders provide both stability and buoyancy at all times

Cheers
Chimo

[gofishin]

go fishin
She doesn't appear to have any hogs. The TC is a plate boat so I wouldn't have expected it to anyway. Funny thing though, the TC is of plate construction, but looks like a pressed one due to the pressed sides. For all the research I've done into what makes a plate boat, this seems to be an anomaly. I'd certainly be happy if anyone out there could explain it to me...

Steve, The TC is actually a hybrid, and not a true plate boat - and even they can get hogs (although a lot less likely). Run a straight edge over the bottom sheets just to be sure. Hogs can arise during the build process or from a poorly set up trailer, or, the wrong type of trailer.

Spray dodgers would sure help, and though you wouldn't normally consider lowering your engine below the optimum height (for efficiency), a low engine is a cheap way of negating flat or hogged trim position, or creating extra nose lift required to serve a purpose (as Wayne has suggested from his experiences).

The difference between true 'pressed' and 'plate' construction techniques is not in the look of the sides etc, but how they are built. Pressed boats and hybrids are built hull-shell first, using extrusions for seam joints, then the internal structure is added last. They are 'normally' a lot more lighter duty than plate boats. True plate boats are built like a traditional timber boat - a rigid frame structure comprising a matrix of welded stringers, barers, x-members, b/heads etc is built on a jig first, and the hull sheeting is added last.

Just because a boat has flat sides doesn't mean it is a plate boat either. There are many 'hybrids' out there - combining both construction techniques in some way or another. Trailcraft are one of them. There are also many pressed boats with flat sides (with maybe one chine & gunnel pressing to stop rippling) that are sold as plate boats, but they aren't.
cheers

[stinky-stabi]

Hi Steve

Thanks for your comments. If i understand correctly there may be some confusion regarding the spray protection device I was visualising as you referred to it in the following

nigelr and ozbee
A wavebreaker sounds like a good option, but the rig stretched my budget a little too far in the first place, I just can't see that kind of expense. Not knowing for sure, I've assumed a wavebreaker is similar to the option that ozbee suggests (75mm plate on the chines) but I'm aware of what happens when I assume...

and so I will now attempt to be clearer.

Here is an example of something either in plastic or canvas or sunbrella etc that may also be fitted to you bow rail. ie as lifted from a boat test

If there is a gap left at the bow, access should not be affected for your family activities and working the anchor, but spray into the boat should be reduced.


http://www.oceancraft.com.au/6m%20001s.jpg The spray dodger and high sides keep occupants of the 6000 Ocean Series Extreme Fisher quite dry the craft planes with ease, while the air filled cylinders provide both stability and buoyancy at all times

Cheers
Chimo

got to say the ocean craft makes my stabi look pretty....sorry mike........

[JB]

Steve, The TC is actually a hybrid, and not a true plate boat - and even they can get hogs (although a lot less likely). Run a straight edge over the bottom sheets just to be sure. Hogs can arise during the build process or from a poorly set up trailer, or, the wrong type of trailer.

Spray dodgers would sure help, and though you wouldn't normally consider lowering your engine below the optimum height (for efficiency), a low engine is a cheap way of negating flat or hogged trim position, or creating extra nose lift required to serve a purpose (as Wayne has suggested from his experiences).

The difference between true 'pressed' and 'plate' construction techniques is not in the look of the sides etc, but how they are built. Pressed boats and hybrids are built hull-shell first, using extrusions for seam joints, then the internal structure is added last. They are 'normally' a lot more lighter duty than plate boats. True plate boats are built like a traditional timber boat - a rigid frame structure comprising a matrix of welded stringers, barers, x-members, b/heads etc is built on a jig first, and the hull sheeting is added last.

Just because a boat has flat sides doesn't mean it is a plate boat either. There are many 'hybrids' out there - combining both construction techniques in some way or another. Trailcraft are one of them. There are also many pressed boats with flat sides (with maybe one chine & gunnel pressing to stop rippling) that are sold as plate boats, but they aren't.
cheers


I'm no boat building expert i'll start by saying that. However i'm confused when you talk about TC not being a true plate boat? You mention true plate boats start with frame structure and matrix of stringers then add hull sheeting, you then say that pressed boats do it the other way around, hull sheeting first. Now i must be stupid but doesnt that result in the same product?

[suzygs1000]

re the plate or not:

Plate boats use 5083 ally, which is much stronger than the ally used in pressed boats, and is not able to be pressed, due to it's stiffness.

There are many plate boats built these days without using jigs and building the frames first.

They simply sit the bottom plates on the floor, chock them to approx angle then weld them together along the keel from the stern, adding the frames and intercostals and keelson as they go.

Others are built in much the same way as above, except that they are constructed in jigs the right way up, to maintain trueness.

The big difference between plateys and pressed is the strength of the aluminium used in each, and not in the way that they are built.

Dave.

[Bazzawookooka]

Chimo
Thanks for the clarification and the pic.

Dave (suzygs1000)
Is that a Trailcraft I see in your avatar???
If so, I'd be very interested in your experiences with it regarding the original subject of this thread.

As an aside, I have a '80 model GSX1100 in bits - maybe a retirement project!

Cheers,

Steve

[suzygs1000]

Hi, Steve,

No, that is a PlateAlloy 5.8metre kit boat which I assembled myself. It is the driest and best riding plate I have ever been in, notwithstanding that it has no planing strakes. (This probably contributes to the soft ride.)

I have gone away from the jap bikes now, and have all british bikes.

If you go into Springwood Suzuki, you will see the original GSX1100 that Neil Chivas won the 1981 Castrol Six Hour on. It is in the same condition as when it was raced.

They were a magnigicent bike!!

Dave.