ACMA double check Boat Owners Radios

[QF3 MROCP]

ACMA media release 43/2009 – 2 April



2 April 2009 ACMA calling on boat owners to double check they are equipped to operate VHF marine radios

The Australian Communications and Media Authority is calling on boat owners and users to double check that they hold a certificate of proficiency to operate their VHF marine radio.
VHF marine radios provide a valuable means of keeping in contact with other vessels and coast stations, particularly at times when the weather changes or when assistance is needed.
The number of vessels on Australian waterways is increasing. The proportion of boats that are fitted with marine radios is also increasing as more competitively priced equipment has led to an increase in the use of radios on boats and other craft.
‘The stark warning is simply this - many boat owners who do not hold an operator’s certificate may not realise they are breaking the law when they operate their VHF marine radios,’ said Chris Chapman, ACMA Chairman.
‘Very high frequency (VHF) International Maritime Mobile (IMM) channels are internationally harmonised and are used for gaining assistance during emergency situations and for general working purposes.’
Channel 16 is designated, internationally, as the emergency and calling channel for ships and small craft. A vessel’s crew may use channel 16 to call other vessels and coast stations but once communication has been established, the operators must change to a working channel to continue the conversation. This ensures channel 16 remains available for emergency situations and other calls.
‘Operators who hold an appropriate operator’s certificate of proficiency know about calling protocols and how the channels are used. Unfortunately, there are operators who are not qualified and not familiar with correct operating procedures and, as a result, are disrupting communications. That simple behaviour further threatens safety of life,’ said Mr Chapman.
Operation of radio transceivers, on the VHF IMM channels, is governed by conditions set by ACMA. These conditions specify that operators must be qualified and hold an appropriate certificate. This certificate must be either the Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency (MROVCP) or the more comprehensive Marine Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency (MROCP).
Information about how to obtain an operator’s certificate and other requirements is available on ACMA’s website under Marine Radio - Choices and Changes (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_2749) and Maritime Ship Station - 27 MHz and VHF (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1303).
Media contact: Donald Robertson, ACMA Media Manager on (02) 9334 7980.
Backgrounder

ACMA has received complaints about the standard of procedures used by operators of VHF marine radios and particularly that this is impacting on access to channel 16 for emergency situations. In addition, some operators who get into difficulties are not using the internationally accepted procedures that were developed to ensure that calls for assistance convey essential information for a rapid response.
The Radiocommunications (Maritime Ship Station - 27 MHz and VHF) Class Licence 2001 contains the licence conditions, operating requirements and technical parameters associated with the operation of marine 27 MHz and VHF radiocommunications and navigation equipment on board small vessels. If the radio equipment and operators do not comply with the conditions in the Class Licence, the station is not licensed.
The Maritime Ship Station class licence was issued in 2001. Boat owners do not have to apply for or renew an individual licence to cover their radio apparatus but they do have to be qualified to operate it.
Operator Qualifications

Operators of marine VHF radiocommunications equipment must be qualified in accordance with the requirements of the Maritime Ship Station Class Licence (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_301) (section 7). Two grades of qualification are relevant. Either the Marine Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency (MROCP) or the simpler Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency (MROVCP) is to be held.
Breaches of Licence Conditions

Maritime Ship Station operators must comply with all conditions in the class licence. Section 132(3) of the Radiocommunications Act 1992 (the Act (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/all/search/5655F30B0454B074CA2571AF0080D2D5)) provides that: 'operation of a radiocommunications device is not authorised by a class licence if it is not in accordance with the conditions of the licence.' If any condition of a licence is breached (for example, the person is not a qualified operator as mentioned in the class licence) the operation of the station is no longer authorised under the class licence. In this instance, the operator is not using it in accordance with a licence and is liable for prosecution under S46 of the Act.
to double check they are equipped to operate VHF marine radios

The Australian Communications and Media Authority is calling on boat owners and users to double check that they hold a certificate of proficiency to operate their VHF marine radio.
VHF marine radios provide a valuable means of keeping in contact with other vessels and coast stations, particularly at times when the weather changes or when assistance is needed.
The number of vessels on Australian waterways is increasing. The proportion of boats that are fitted with marine radios is also increasing as more competitively priced equipment has led to an increase in the use of radios on boats and other craft.
‘The stark warning is simply this - many boat owners who do not hold an operator’s certificate may not realise they are breaking the law when they operate their VHF marine radios,’ said Chris Chapman, ACMA Chairman.
‘Very high frequency (VHF) International Maritime Mobile (IMM) channels are internationally harmonised and are used for gaining assistance during emergency situations and for general working purposes.’
Channel 16 is designated, internationally, as the emergency and calling channel for ships and small craft. A vessel’s crew may use channel 16 to call other vessels and coast stations but once communication has been established, the operators must change to a working channel to continue the conversation. This ensures channel 16 remains available for emergency situations and other calls.
‘Operators who hold an appropriate operator’s certificate of proficiency know about calling protocols and how the channels are used. Unfortunately, there are operators who are not qualified and not familiar with correct operating procedures and, as a result, are disrupting communications. That simple behaviour further threatens safety of life,’ said Mr Chapman.
Operation of radio transceivers, on the VHF IMM channels, is governed by conditions set by ACMA. These conditions specify that operators must be qualified and hold an appropriate certificate. This certificate must be either the Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency (MROVCP) or the more comprehensive Marine Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency (MROCP).
Information about how to obtain an operator’s certificate and other requirements is available on ACMA’s website under Marine Radio - Choices and Changes (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_2749) and Maritime Ship Station - 27 MHz and VHF (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_1303).
Media contact: Donald Robertson, ACMA Media Manager on (02) 9334 7980.

Backgrounder

ACMA has received complaints about the standard of procedures used by operators of VHF marine radios and particularly that this is impacting on access to channel 16 for emergency situations. In addition, some operators who get into difficulties are not using the internationally accepted procedures that were developed to ensure that calls for assistance convey essential information for a rapid response.
The Radiocommunications (Maritime Ship Station - 27 MHz and VHF) Class Licence 2001 contains the licence conditions, operating requirements and technical parameters associated with the operation of marine 27 MHz and VHF radiocommunications and navigation equipment on board small vessels. If the radio equipment and operators do not comply with the conditions in the Class Licence, the station is not licensed.
The Maritime Ship Station class licence was issued in 2001. Boat owners do not have to apply for or renew an individual licence to cover their radio apparatus but they do have to be qualified to operate it.

Operator Qualifications

Operators of marine VHF radiocommunications equipment must be qualified in accordance with the requirements of the Maritime Ship Station Class Licence (http://www.acma.gov.au/WEB/STANDARD/pc=PC_301) (section 7). Two grades of qualification are relevant. Either the Marine Radio Operators Certificate of Proficiency (MROCP) or the simpler Marine Radio Operators VHF Certificate of Proficiency (MROVCP) is to be held.
Breaches of Licence Conditions

Maritime Ship Station operators must comply with all conditions in the class licence. Section 132(3) of the Radiocommunications Act 1992 (the Act (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/ComLaw/Legislation/ActCompilation1.nsf/all/search/5655F30B0454B074CA2571AF0080D2D5)) provides that: 'operation of a radiocommunications device is not authorised by a class licence if it is not in accordance with the conditions of the licence.' If any condition of a licence is breached (for example, the person is not a qualified operator as mentioned in the class licence) the operation of the station is no longer authorised under the class licence. In this instance, the operator is not using it in accordance with a licence and is liable for prosecution under S46 of the Act.


Radio Course at Redcliffe Coast Guard on June 19th, phone 3203 5522

[finga]

I'd like them to have a blitz on radio licenses.
Most times I will not have the radio on if there's kids in the boat because of the potty talk.
No consideration at all for other users is exhibited by more then one operator.

[TheRealAndy]

I'd like them to have a blitz on radio licenses.
Most times I will not have the radio on if there's kids in the boat because of the potty talk.
No consideration at all for other users is exhibited by more then one operator.

Thats what I was going to say. If they were actually interested in enforcing it they would. As it is, its almost impossible to get the ACMA to react to complaints from commercial customers let alone getting them to enforce free airspace. The ACMA is a joke in my opinion.

[TimiBoy]

I doubt the facilities could handle the demand if every user had to train. It would also discourage unlicensed users from using the VHF, and that would be tragic, particularly given the phase out of 27Meg.

The unfortunate reality is that when VHF was predominantly a tool for commercial and distance work, it was feasible to license and enforce. Now it's in broad usage, I don't think it's viable.

The answer? Don't know, but enforcement isn't it, IMO.

Cheers,

Tim

[SatNav]

1. This ACMA move is based on the increased recreational use and problems being experienced due to inexperienced and unlicenced operators.

2. Unlicenced operators should be discouraged from using the respective frequencies until they have the necessary qualifications.

3. Unlicenced users should be encouraged to complete the training for the benefit of all users. If not then they should be discouraged from using the respective channels. Hopefully unlicenced users will acknowledge the importance of taking the first step towards meeting the requirements.

[Grand_Marlin]

Out of all the VHF's I have fitted for people, I could count on one hand the owners who hold an operators certificate.

As a boatie that wanders a long way offshore, I appreciate the formality of the VHF operating rules.
I know how important that radio can be if it is needed in an emergency.

I would also never deny a fellow boatie the option of fitting a VHF just because they don't currently have a license.
A lot of people venture well offshore and I would rather see them with a VHF than without, as one day it may save their life.

Problem is, knowing how to use it.
The problems that are being reported / complained about are simply being caused by people not knowing how to use the VHF properly.

I let all my clients know that it is law to have a license and to go and do a course at one of the many VMR's that hold these courses.
I also let them know that it is amazing how much they will learn on the course.
The license issue is a one off cost and it trains you how to use the radio properly.

In line with QF3,s information, I urge everyone who has a VHF to do the right thing and get your license.

ACMA are toothless tigers and wouldn't even know where to start to fix this problem... they have the same ability as your Grandmother telling you she is going to kick your @rse :o

As responsible boaties, do the right thing, get your VHF license so you know how to use it.
Also, put some pressure on your mate to do the course... one day this could save your life.

The only way (short term) that VHF will stay good, is if we as boaties do something about it.

Yes, you can get away without a license, No, you aren't likely to get caught and fined, but just for once wake up and see what it is doing to the VHF network.

Most people have gone to VHF to get away from the unrestricted crap that was happening on 27MHz.
VHF is starting to go the same way... all because people lack the knowledge on how to use the VHF properly.

Cheers

Pete

[finga]

Well said Pete,
Again, it's the few that stuff it for the majority.

[SgBFish]

ACMA are toothless tigers and wouldn't even know where to start to fix this problem... they have the same ability as your Grandmother telling you she is going to kick your @rse :o

As responsible boaties, do the right thing, get your VHF license so you know how to use it.
VHF is starting to go the same way... all because people lack the knowledge on how to use the VHF properly.

Cheers

Pete

Pete I think you are spot on. There is no point having a law and not inforcing it. To go further its not that people need to know how to use it its about the importance of the system as a life saving device in an emergency.

I should be able to leave the set on when I am out and not have to listen to complete idiots all day on 16.

They just think channel 16 is for chat. 21 is a complete wally band these days because of its range. I turned mine off last Saturday how rediculous is that.

Scott

[Coontakinta]

As responsible boaties, do the right thing, get your VHF license so you know how to use it.
Also, put some pressure on your mate to do the course... one day this could save your life.

The only way (short term) that VHF will stay good, is if we as boaties do something about it.

Yes, you can get away without a license, No, you aren't likely to get caught and fined, but just for once wake up and see what it is doing to the VHF network.

Most people have gone to VHF to get away from the unrestricted crap that was happening on 27MHz.
VHF is starting to go the same way... all because people lack the knowledge on how to use the VHF properly.

Cheers

Pete

I agree with these sentiments unreservedly. One of the reasons my 27meg is hardly used is due to the BS that is put over . I'm sure the problem here in SA is far less than that of the East, less boaties, but its enough to have me watching one channel on it and thats the channel used by my fellow boat club memebers. The crap that is sent over the airwaves on 27meg is extraordinary and obviously worse on public holidays. I would hate to see VHF go the same way.

Timiboy (bloody crows supporters:P ;) ) I understand your sentiment about discouraging some from using the system, but I look upon education of the radios correct use as a safety issue. No point having it if you dont know how to use it in an emergency. When my lad is old enough to be able to understand and use the radio PROPERLY it will be one of the first things I encourage him to learn about boating.

[sleepygreg]

Totally agree with all the above sentiments. Do your course and learn how to use the radio as it was meant to be used. As for enforcement.....I wish some one would come up with a way of tracing the knuckleheads who continually use foul language over the radio......I am no angel when it come to dropping the odd blue comment....but NOT over the radio...thats one of the reasons my brother in law refuses to have the radio on in his boat when they have their 11yo daughter on board. I am sure many are in the same position. The course is really informative, the test is relatively simple, the knowledge gained invaluable, so I encourage everyone to do it.

Its not going to stop these fools that abuse the airwaves though. Most motorists who act like fools on the road have car licences!!

Greg

[TheRealAndy]

Totally agree with all the above sentiments. Do your course and learn how to use the radio as it was meant to be used. As for enforcement.....I wish some one would come up with a way of tracing the knuckleheads who continually use foul language over the radio......I am no angel when it come to dropping the odd blue comment....but NOT over the radio...thats one of the reasons my brother in law refuses to have the radio on in his boat when they have their 11yo daughter on board. I am sure many are in the same position. The course is really informative, the test is relatively simple, the knowledge gained invaluable, so I encourage everyone to do it.

Its not going to stop these fools that abuse the airwaves though. Most motorists who act like fools on the road have car licences!!

Greg

Its not hard to track a down a radio user. The equiment can be had relativley cheaply and does not take long to learn how to use. Same method is used for tracking the homing beacon in an EPIRB. Its just a shame that ACMA does not use this gear.

I do not agree that people should not use the radio unless licenced, however I think that other than logging in or emergency use then you should stay away until you are licenced. Before I got my licence, I still logged in. You could have fined me and I would have still done it, its stupid not to.

I usually leave my radio on ch 16 too, but on those days when it gets to noisy I will switch it off. A few times some of the volunteer organisations as well as brisbane harbour have been responsible for this. So as greg says, its not always the people without a licence causing the trouble.

[QF3 MROCP]

weather report for Sunday 21st:

Moreton Bay Waters:

Saturday until midnight: SE/E winds 10/15 knots, increasing to 15/20 knots during the evening. Seas rising to 1.0 metres. Scattered showers.

Sunday: SE/NE winds 15/20 knots. Seas to 1.0 metres. Scattered showers.

Better to send the day onshore getting better marine radio educated!!

[jeffrey_h]

Well I did the right thing today and sat for my VHF lic at Victoria Point.

Good day and I sure I'll get 100%. I did study the handbook off the web beforehand just to make sure.

Thanks to VMR 441.

Jeffrey

[cormorant]

I think a lot of people get turned off as it is like back to school.

Perhaps a simplified version without all the technical stuff ( who cares just want to pick it up and it works) that covers the very basics would help. You don't know how to install the bloody thing or know why an aerial is 7 foot six. etc etc

Just the stations and protocols.

I was recently at a club doing volunteer work and a course was being run. They sat through 8 house of stuff that is not directly related to simple operation rules and ettiquite. They then had to come back the following week for a update and exam. That's 1 and a half days and not cheap plus the family time you miss. That means wives and others often on boats won't get proper instruction a lot of the time as they get it 3rd hand.

I undrstand the safety but just feel like they are making it harder than necessary so few people bother even though they would like to.

Oh yeah be nice if it was a ticked box on boat lic so one less thing to carry on boat and don't ever have to think about it again.

Perhaps a lower level course to call in and to know what to do in an emergency.

Pretty useless when like other have mentioned I have it turned so low due to the dribble on it which means that we will possibly miss a pan pan or maday. Half those dribblers are probably qualified

[Midnight]

Gday,

When are the authorities going to wake up and make it part of getting an RMDL or higher certificate? Simple::)

And yes, the cr@p on ch21 around Brissy at the moment is getting beyond a joke. Go to 72 if ya want to have yarn about who is catchin what or who is getting rained on!

I hold a Flight Radiotelephone Operators Licence allowing me to use VHF and HF from an aeroplane but it doesn't cover me for the VHF in the boat. Go figure....

Cheers,
Myles

[TheRealAndy]

I think a lot of people get turned off as it is like back to school.

Perhaps a simplified version without all the technical stuff ( who cares just want to pick it up and it works) that covers the very basics would help. You don't know how to install the bloody thing or know why an aerial is 7 foot six. etc etc

Just the stations and protocols.

I was recently at a club doing volunteer work and a course was being run. They sat through 8 house of stuff that is not directly related to simple operation rules and ettiquite. They then had to come back the following week for a update and exam. That's 1 and a half days and not cheap plus the family time you miss. That means wives and others often on boats won't get proper instruction a lot of the time as they get it 3rd hand.

I undrstand the safety but just feel like they are making it harder than necessary so few people bother even though they would like to.

Oh yeah be nice if it was a ticked box on boat lic so one less thing to carry on boat and don't ever have to think about it again.

Perhaps a lower level course to call in and to know what to do in an emergency.

Pretty useless when like other have mentioned I have it turned so low due to the dribble on it which means that we will possibly miss a pan pan or maday. Half those dribblers are probably qualified

I thought the same before I did mine. IF in any doubt, go to Pete's Course at Redcliffe, he makes it about as simple as possible. I did the full radio licence (needed for my commercial coxswains ticket) and it was a breeze. Took me a while to get around to it but I finally decided to pull my finger and just go do it.

The reason you need to get a certificate to use VHF is because the radio is also used for commercial shipping. The last thing commercial operators want or need is idiots chatting on the port channels when trying to organise pilots and navigation advice etc.

[Dee Jay]

I agree with everyone about the fools on the radio but still refuse to turn mine off just in case someone needs help. I very rarely use my VHF because of the traffic on the radio
I have worked for military style organisations for the best part of 20 years and have run radio operator courses for them. I am have not done a marine operators course and don’t intent to. This prevents me from registering my details with any marine rescue organisation, which seems wrong to me. It seems to me that an RPL type system would help. I already donate enough money to rescue organisation without them forcing money out of me.
Having said all of that, there is no grantee that radio training will instil common sense into the user. Maybe they could try the handy invention of the mobile phone as most of the bay and surrounds gets coverage (or for my phone anyway).
If you have no experience GET A LICENCE AND USE SOME COMMON SENSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lee8sec]

Should be required to hold it before you can get a boat licence, no radio ticket,no licence. Just because the boat you use/own doesnt have a VHF doesnt mean you shouldnt know how to use it. Leigh

[stevej]

Should be required to hold it before you can get a boat licence, no radio ticket,no licence. Just because the boat you use/own doesnt have a VHF doesnt mean you shouldnt know how to use it. Leigh

that would handicap a massive amount of boaters who would never have a radio
over 200 guys in the club i was in have no need for a boat raido

[jeffrey_h]

Cormorant (and others),


Depends what you thought of school. I agree that some of the stuff was useless, like if you activate your EPIRB the signal goes to a LUTS station, who cares, as long as it gets to the right people, but that is one of the test question set out for all uses.


I agree that a course set out to train and inform uses on how to use this equipment properly would be great, I would go. But not to have any control over who uses the radio and how to use it would be far worse than it is now.


Even Redcliffe will let you sit for the exam on the day if you want, saving a return trip. I'm sure 1 day out of your life would be worth the exp. gained from the course. Think of all the hours that the VMR people spend out of their time to sit there and listern out for us, it's more that 1 day a year. Boating is a very costly hobby, but most of the money for this course goes to the VMR.


Feel free to tell the kids and 'dribblers' to get off and move to another station, they will know how if they do the course!


Lee8sec, that's a good idea even a 27 mhz radio needs instructions for most people on what 'ettiquite' to use and the correct stations to use.


I hope that I never need to use ch.16 but now have a better understanding of how to if needed.

Stevej, what club is that, model boats, sorry.

Jeffrey

[honda900]

It would be easier to limit access to the radios themselves, ie in order to buy vhf you need to supply your licence Number, in the case of an installer, then you would need to supply the installer with your details so he can buy the radio on your behalf.

As for the course was well worth it, it is fairly straight forward and not difficult you shouldnt be put off by the test it is pretty easy, I for one had 5 questions on battery maintenance out of 20 questions.

The really useful thing you get from the course is how to setup your radio, duel watch, triple watch, which channels do what and what to do when certain calls come over the radio.

Cant say enough about VMR vicky point and a chance for a couple of Aushfishers to get together as well.

Regards
Honda

[finga]

I think a lot of people get turned off as it is like back to school.

Perhaps a simplified version without all the technical stuff ( who cares just want to pick it up and it works) that covers the very basics would help. You don't know how to install the bloody thing or know why an aerial is 7 foot six. etc etc

Just the stations and protocols.


Why not make the boat license easy as well?
All you need to know is forward is that way and backwards is the otherway and if you go glub glub start swimming.
A lot of information in the course that you'll probably never use again.
Why not make the car license easier for that matter?
How hard and expensive is it to get a forklift ticket now? Anybody can drive one of them suckers.
Some people are just too lazy, too slack, too tight, too 'I don't give a flying fig, I'll do what I want' to worry about such a formality as a license.
They'll spend a day on the grog at the cricket or footy but will not spend a day to do the right thing and learning about marine radios.
A tragedy will occur because people had their radios off and a mayday or pan will be missed and it was missed because of because of all the crap on the air waves.
All these systems, networks and rules are in place for a reason.
Learn the reason.
IMO the ability to be able to use the MMSI number is worth the day and $100odd.
How many people buy a VHF and buy a particular one because it has DSC (the bloke at the shop said it's a great feature didn't he) and go to program the radio and well bugger me, why isn't that working?
If you did the course you'd know why and you'd be able to use the feature.

Gees I hate slack ar$e attitudes to basic safety and lack of basic consideration for others.
(cormorant...I'm not referring to as a slacker matey by any means ...just a broad generalisation based on your idea of making the license easier to get...)

[cormorant]

Hi Guys

As for how to use DSC and other features of your radio or what they mean - read your bloody manual just like any electrical equipment or lawnmower !!!!!!!!.

Seriously if people don't realise that a radio is a required safety item for a reason they will never work it out.

Yeah why not have a course on battery maintainance with your car lic as it will stop those pesky breakdowns and include alternators as well as they are 80% of callouts for RACQ.

Why don't we make all boat lic holders do a small motor maintainance course as well and then half of the dumb asses who leave the ramp wouldn't and that way they wouldn't use a radio. I guarantee 80% on this site wouldn't pass and that would free up a lot of water to fish.

I think the course should only cover the very basic use and channels , emergecy calls etc etc and not confuse the issue with battery maintainance and Luts and and and .....

Lets not try and put barriers up to safe boating by making it such a substantial course and cost.

Keep it simple and for those who want to take it further have the full existing course and safety at sea.

Maybe any radio sold must have a laminated safety sheet , or sticker to be attached next to the radio on use and rules.



Corm

PS I might add that I am a supporter in quite a few ways to VMR and have great respect for them and think they are gems.

[TheRealAndy]

There is a simple answer to all of this. IF you dont want to get your licence, sell the VHF and get a 27Mhz radio.

[finga]

Hi Guys

As for how to use DSC and other features of your radio or what they mean - read your bloody manual just like any electrical equipment lawnmower !!!!!!!!.


No matter how many manuals you read there's no way in hell you can get the DSC feature working on a VHF marine radio if you have not passed the radio course and have that magic little number that is issued to you.
I'll even lay the bet that I'll eat my y-fronts if any person can get the DSC working (without the MMSI number) by just reading the owners manual.
It's a bit like trying to use my swipey card to get money out of the ATM. Without my secret number you've got buckley's...even if you read the manual for ATM.
But you'd know that if you've done the course. ::)

Good point Andy...there are options...if you don't want to get the license for what-ever reason use the 27meg or buy a sat phone.

[stevej]

Cormorant (and others),



Stevej, what club is that, model boats, sorry.

Jeffrey

nice respectful answer there, i guess you assume every boat travels offshore and requires a radio as mandatory kit

freshwater bass and bream fishing clubs, lareg percentage of guys only fish fresh very very few see more then a few miles off shore, as the boats are just not suited to even rough days in the bay

they make up a large percentage of total boat owners should not be slugged for something they i will never use

ski boats freshwater river users bay users have no use for vhf as its not even covered in most situations

[jeffrey_h]

'nice respectful answer there' thanks steve I try. Even in the bay, river or a dam you could still need a radio if something goes wrong.

Yes I agree that not all boats need or want a radio. I ran aground a few weeks ago the other side of Rivers Heads, where there is no mobile coverage. I had no radio with me and if we had of holed the tinnie, on low tide, there would have been trouble. Image this at night with-out a radio. I will fit my old 27 mhz radio before next time, don't care how small a boat it is.

And by the way I don't agree with forcing every boat to have a radio or a license.


Jeffrey

[PADDLES]

i agree with enforcing it in a system similar to the way epirbs and other safety gear are regulated. if you boat in certain areas you must have a vhf and you must have a licence, this should be enforced with spot checks by water police.

[lee8sec]

I would say it would enhance a lot of boaters not handicap them. Knowledge on radio use could one day save there life. Leigh


that would handicap a massive amount of boaters who would never have a radio
over 200 guys in the club i was in have no need for a boat raido

[stevej]

I would say it would enhance a lot of boaters not handicap them. Knowledge on radio use could one day save there life. Leigh


atm the only chance a radio would ever save me would be a 27mhz which i could switch to am and hope a truck driver was in range

no volunteer groups manning radios last i heard at glenbawn dam or any freshwater dam, but hey we just drift to one side and walk back to ramp.

dont apply offshore principles to every boat user

think about it every tinny out there would have to fit a radio how is that feasibly possible

when on dams midweek on my own or up river, i have in addition to everything mandatorly required to carry
a comprehensive st johns first aid kit
flare kit always good for starting a fire
am not against radios i have a handgeld set of 27mhz
but i doubt if i was ever in shit in inland australia that a radio would save me

[SatNav]

"atm the only chance a radio would ever save me would be a 27mhz which i could switch to am and hope a truck driver was in range"

1. Would be an antique truck driver still using 27mhz

2. Inland lakes, rivers etc would be best served by UHF and the quite extensive UHF repeater network

[stevej]

"atm the only chance a radio would ever save me would be a 27mhz which i could switch to am and hope a truck driver was in range"

1. Would be an antique truck driver still using 27mhz

2. Inland lakes, rivers etc would be best served by UHF and the quite extensive UHF repeater network

27meg is am ?
vhf is vhf

marine units come in uhf or they like the 4wd cb units?

what do all the caravan folk carry round?

[SatNav]

1. There appears to be some confusion and non appreciation of what may be the best radio frequency/system to use in certain circumstances regardless of the "marine" tag.

2. 27mhz can be AM or SSB. 27meg used by truckies are quite different frequencies as that used by marine, however both are generall AM these days with very little or no SSB

3. Once away from marine VHF (as there is many other different VHF frequencies) then users should use whatever frequency/system that will give them the best chance of contacting somebody in an emergency

4. 27 meg for most applications these days especially on land should be considered almost dead as most users be it property owners, truckies, 4W Drivers, caravaners etc all generally now use 40 channel UHF.

5. UHF is quite different to VHF and each has a particular part to play in useable communications

[Scaredy Cat]

Surely the correct use of the radios is as important as driving the boat, the radio proficiency course should be part of the process of obtaining a boat lic.
You don’t obtain a boat lic without knowledge of flares and other safety gear.

Do we really care what radio you use, following the procedures covered in a proficiency course are good practice especially on a 27m radio during a busy long weekend, it may just save you and your crews lives, inshore or offshore.

Make the course mandatory and educate the masses on what is expected, existing patrols could then check the quals when boarding our boats for other checks. A much better idea than going back to the old lic regime

[Taroona]

27meg is am ?
vhf is vhf

marine units come in uhf or they like the 4wd cb units?

what do all the caravan folk carry round?

The "caravan folk" use 40ch UHF

Once when I was in the bush up around Kenilworth I made contact with a nother 4WD operator in Toowoomba using a UHF repeater. So take note of Satnav's advice and us a UHF if fishing inland

[Bowser]

At the moment I am only using a 27 mhz unit but will install a VHF on the new boat, so I haven't heard what is going on, on th eVHF network. However I understand the sort of crap that is going on. I would love to see automatic DSC/buddy feature, on all radios so that the ACMA could monitor who is using it and ID the idiots that rabbit on, on the stand by channels, swearing and blocking out neccessary useage. There are enough channels available to carry on chit chat with your mates without letting the rest of us know. One of the things I like about the 27mhz these days is that it isn't filled with rabble, most users are or seem to be experienced and use correct or semi correct etiquette and the rubbish that used to be there is now on the VHF, makes for a more peaceful day without having to make the decision to turn it off or let my young nephew listen to the language that goes on.

The point I am trying to make is that like so much government legislation, it is toothless. Sure the odd boatie will get hung drawn and quartered and then get on th eforum complaining about the jack booted radio nazi's, but it will only be the odd one. To make matters worse, the offence is in using the radio, not having one. This means that you can install one, have it on all the time and only use it in emergency. You break the law when you use it. So proving guilt is difficult, you actually need to catch someone using it and be able to prove it. Amend the law to possession and you will see either an increase in licencing or a reversal to 27mhz. Licencing won't stop the crap, it will only make them aware of the implications and the correct proceedure. To paraphrase the old saying, you can lead a horse's arse to water but you can't make him intelligent and considerate.

[cormorant]

Surely the correct use of the radios is as important as driving the boat, the radio proficiency course should be part of the process of obtaining a boat lic.
You don’t obtain a boat lic without knowledge of flares and other safety gear.

Do we really care what radio you use, following the procedures covered in a proficiency course are good practice especially on a 27m radio during a busy long weekend, it may just save you and your crews lives, inshore or offshore.

Make the course mandatory and educate the masses on what is expected, existing patrols could then check the quals when boarding our boats for other checks. A much better idea than going back to the old lic regime



Hell I must of missed the how to use flares course in my boat lic????

Must have missed the how to use fire extinguisher etc.

Radio is just another safety item. It shouldn't need a all day course!!!!

When was the last time you were correctly instructed in use of extinguishers and flares??? When did you last practise that. Geeze a boat lic will soon become a full survival course. Maybe Les Hiddens could write it for us all.

No I don't agree with all the twats who can't understand teh correct use of the radio but I don't believe in overregulationa nd long drawn out courses that cover far too much ground. Simply the course and cost and if people want to do a bells and whistles on thay can.

[finga]

I bet a lot of people wished the reverse parallel parking bit was taken out of a driving test.
And I wished the section on how to do CPR was taken out of my compulsory first aid course..I'll never need that in my trade.
Takes up a day too but who am I to argue.

[TheRealAndy]

Just a side note. Found out last night that there are discussions going on at the moment (in canberra?) re chaning the way VHF licenes are issued. Currently the Maratime College in Tassie have the contract until 2012 I think, so nothing will happen until at least then.

[finga]

Just a side note. Found out last night that there are discussions going on at the moment (in canberra?) re chaning the way VHF licenes are issued. Currently the Maratime College in Tassie have the contract until 2012 I think, so nothing will happen until at least then.
Change into a TAFE course??
Or independent assessors like boat licenses now??

[TheRealAndy]

Change into a TAFE course??
Or independent assessors like boat licenses now??

Not quite sure, just something that was mentioned at the VMR meeting on Tuesday, I'll see if I can find out more.

[QF3 MROCP]

This prevents me from registering my details with any marine rescue organisation, which seems wrong to me. It seems to me that an RPL type system would help. I already donate enough money to rescue organisation without them forcing money out of me.



Dee Jay

Whats with the prevention by a VMR to register.. I would be amased that someone has told you that!!!

The absence of the Operators Certificate is of NO business of any VMR.. they are not and have not - any authority to question a radio user and should provide to same service to a non holder as that of a certificate holder.

send me a PM.. I'd be more than happy to take this issue up with the VMR directly.

Peter

[TheRealAndy]

Dee Jay

Whats with the prevention by a VMR to register.. I would be amased that someone has told you that!!!

The absence of the Operators Certificate is of NO business of any VMR.. they are not and have not - any authority to question a radio user and should provide to same service to a non holder as that of a certificate holder.

send me a PM.. I'd be more than happy to take this issue up with the VMR directly.

Peter

Licence or no licence, I would still log in.

[Scaredy Cat]

Hell I must of missed the how to use flares course in my boat lic????

Must have missed the how to use fire extinguisher etc.

Radio is just another safety item. It shouldn't need a all day course!!!!

When was the last time you were correctly instructed in use of extinguishers and flares??? When did you last practise that. Geeze a boat lic will soon become a full survival course. Maybe Les Hiddens could write it for us all.

No I don't agree with all the twats who can't understand theThe issue correct use of the radio but I don't believe in overregulationa nd long drawn out courses that cover far too much ground. Simply the course and cost and if people want to do a bells and whistles on thay can.

Who said anything about an all day course, I have no doubt you could cover the issues needed in a reduced time if combined with a current course. IMO most people attending a boat lic course are attending to gain the knowedge to perform boating activities confidently and safely.
I aggree, like our boat lic, if you have the required knowedge and can prove your proficiency then you should be able to book your test and not need to site through a formal course.
The boating course I attended many years ago in Brisbane did contain info on flares and fire fighting equipment, along with all the other info contained in the QLD Recreational Boating Safety Handbook it was basic and made you aware of the various types, the rules, expiry and when, where and how to use these items. The course did not cover radios as they are refered back to ACA requirements


The issues are- a certificate is currently required to operate a vhf radio, people are already paying to do a course, the current system allows people to operate without the required knowedge
I think we all agree the current system is not the answer,

[QF3 MROCP]

Who said anything about an all day course, I have no doubt you could cover the issues needed in a reduced time if combined with a current course. IMO most people attending a boat lic course are attending to gain the knowedge to perform boating activities confidently and safely.
I aggree, like our boat lic, if you have the required knowedge and can prove your proficiency then you should be able to book your test and not need to site through a formal course.
The boating course I attended many years ago in Brisbane did contain info on flares and fire fighting equipment, along with all the other info contained in the QLD Recreational Boating Safety Handbook it was basic and made you aware of the various types, the rules, expiry and when, where and how to use these items. The course did not cover radios as they are refered back to ACA requirements


The issues are- a certificate is currently required to operate a vhf radio, people are already paying to do a course, the current system allows people to operate without the required knowedge
I think we all agree the current system is not the answer,

The system does allow you to just sit for the exam, without the lecture and improved education.. all you have to do is book yourself with a registered invigilator, pay the exam fee and it's done!

[Mr__Bean]

The biggest thing I remember from the course wasn't what to say, or what channel to say it on.

It was knowing when to bloody well shut up so that any poor bugger a long way from home or in real trouble with a fading signal could get his distress message through.

It's not what you think you know that makes it ok, it is learning what you don't know.

- Darren

[sporty1]

Hi Guys

Just finished my course online through abc boating College. the easy and informative lessons were very informative to work through, then I booked in to do my exam. I CONSIDER IT THE BEST $100 ($49 FOR THE COURSE $48 FOR THE TEST) I HAVE SPENT.
What price do we place on our safety? If travelling even in sheltered waters I will be logging on with VMR or Coast Guard in future. I owe it to the people I have on board and their folks at home.
As highlighted evey few weeks even the most experienced and well prepaired boaties can get into difficulty and I put a very high price on my safety and the safety of family or mates I take fishing with me!

[Megatop]

Gday,

When are the authorities going to wake up and make it part of getting an RMDL or higher certificate? Simple::)

And yes, the cr@p on ch21 around Brissy at the moment is getting beyond a joke. Go to 72 if ya want to have yarn about who is catchin what or who is getting rained on!

I hold a Flight Radiotelephone Operators Licence allowing me to use VHF and HF from an aeroplane but it doesn't cover me for the VHF in the boat. Go figure....

Cheers,
Myles

Who said your Flight Radiotelephone Operators Licence does not cover you. It is a licence to operate VHF, HF etc. I see no difference in a VHF set in a boat or in an aircraft except dialling in the frequencies.

Adrian

[QF3 MROCP]

Who said your Flight Radiotelephone Operators Licence does not cover you. It is a licence to operate VHF, HF etc. I see no difference in a VHF set in a boat or in an aircraft except dialling in the frequencies.

Adrian

ACMA & the Office of Maritime College (OMC - big brother)... why.. only they know and don't want to spread the word.. I figure it's because the terminology and the course syllabus..

It sounds crazy Megatop, but I've hade army radio officiers, 747 pilots and myself - a little C172 have to do the exam..

Peter

[seatime]

ACMA & the Office of Maritime College (OMC - big brother)... why.. only they know and don't want to spread the word.. I figure it's because the terminology and the course syllabus..

It sounds crazy Megatop, but I've hade army radio officiers, 747 pilots and myself - a little C172 have to do the exam..

Peter

Ask the OMC (Office of Maritime Communications) directly:

http://www.amc.edu.au/omc

[QF3 MROCP]

I know of a 30 year + skipper who is having to finally get his MROCP because he was questioned recently during a vessel survey to present his radio operators certificate.... Took him by surprise alright!

Could this be an alternative tactic to start first on the "commercial" operators?
Reason being it would assumed that as commercial vessel, they will have an operational VHF radio on board and therefore the skipper or master is responsible for it's use, hence the expectation he must have an MROCP certificate.. interesting times ahead

[oldboot]

If you are an experienced radio op, without a marine ticket and you have half a brain.... you should be able to work thru the manual and sit the exam... no problems.

The main difference between the marine ticket and other tickets is the frequencies (yes)... but mostly the protocols and the specific terms and forms of speach used in emergency conditions......these protocols and methods of work are central to the marine system and they are very different to other radio systems.
Most of the questions in the exam are on matters of working and procedure.

Afterall that is what this thread has become about... people not knowing how to behave and what frequencies to use on the marine bands.

I would not expect to walk into any other " controlled radio system" and wave my mrocp and expect to be allowed to operate.

Now I could have worked thru the book and passed the exam.... but the one day course that cost me less that the cost of a slab and a couple of pies ( this includes the book) , was a lot of fun & I got to meet some good people I only knew by their online tags.
AND I learned a bit about the bay and a few good fishing spots too.:thumbup:


As for what is being taught in boat licences...... i attended a boat licence course not all that long ago and quite a few of the things mentioned in this thread are in the course and the exam.
Basic boat mechanical boat function was discussed.
use of flares was discussed
various emergency procedures were discussed
basic radio procedure and the advacteges of having one AND the necessity of having a licence for VHF or above were all discussed

Consider the responsibilities and the additional complications presented by water and weather... the boat licence is a pissy little exam incomparison to a land bassed licence......and exam and a training course that I can only see getting more complex and extensive......particularly if we have a few more fatal accidents this summer............we have already seen a considerable increase in boating patrols in the last couple of years as a result of a couple of fatal accidents..

And it wont be the first licence that the QLD government has changed from a licence for life to one that has to be renewed periodicaly with an ongoing learning requirement.......( any electricians out there)

Both the radio course and the boat licence course were 1 day courses.......neither of the instructors fiddled about or slowed the pace much all day... and I did not hear anything that could be reasonably left out.

As for enforcement... the ACMA are not the enforcement machine they were in the early eighties at the height of the CB boom, when they had dozens of radio inspectors with dector vans.
They have even greater problems when the matter is on the water... they have no boats. Traditionaly marine radio inspection has been mostly the province of the government marine surveyor. On commercial boats they certainly will ask the master of the boat for his papers including his MROCP or equavalent... and they can ask any officer aboard for theirs too if it is a compulsory part of their seagoing qualifications.

There have been noises recently about making some legeslative arrangements to allow state based marine patrols to inspect and prosecute "radio isues" on recreational boats, which at the moment stands as a fedral issue.

State bassed inspectors can at the moment ask a commercial master for their MROCP, because it forms part of their compulsory seagoing qualifications..... what they can do past that is an interesting question.... I suspect they would have to draw a long bow and prosecute any radio offences as a seamanship issue... or call in the ACMA to prosecute the matter and supply evidence.

In the next few years I completly expect there to be something done in the above areas.
There is currently a tide of national standardisation slowly creeping across the country, for good or bad it has to come to tjis issue sooner or later.

hopefully it is all for the best.

cheers

[black runner]

Agree entirely OB. Many also don't think past the radio as being just their own safety device for when they are in trouble.

If you have a VHF on board while at sea, you are obliged to have it on and be monitoring CH16, and to render assistance if it is safe and you are in the best position to do so.

This is when you need to know procedures/protocols/ language/relay techniques.

I reckon there are plenty out there who turn the radio on only when they need it mainly because they don't know how or don't feel confident using it.

Cheers