Climbing down chains - Safety Issue

[walugi]

Hi Guys,

I saw this really, really nice rock ledge around Middle Head a few months ago. It led to a nice drop into deepish water, but it wasn't being overcome by waves.

Problem is that you need to climb down some chains (1-1.5m) down onto this ledge. How can i see if its safe to climb down? Is there something I should be looking for? I felt quite sturdy, and heavy - despite looking quite rusted.

Anyone know the chain I am talking about? It's on the north side of Middle Head in the Mosman area. Aside from that, it used to be in a navy base so it would've been put there by them right?

Thanks :)

[Blackened]

G'day

Not sure myself,. but under 6'? Just jump!

Dave

[walugi]

Yeah but the ledge under it is pretty narrow so you'd have to jump down but also backwards if you know what i mean. I might actually have a photo, stay tuned :)

[NAGG]

Sydney rock ledges often have rope points & even ladders at them ...... but I;ve never seen chains:-/ . Middle head is ex military & so it probably goes back to the 1930/40s
If the anchor point looks good ...... take your own rope ( this spot sounds pretty straight forward) .

Good luck & take care

Chris

[walugi]

Yeah I was thinking about taking my own rope just to make sure. Anyone have any ideas how best to tie myself on just in case the horrible happens?

[NAGG]

Yeah I was thinking about taking my own rope just to make sure. Anyone have any ideas how best to tie myself on just in case the horrible happens?


Just tie a couple of loops in the rope to put your foot in ......... its simple & it works - We used to just have double knots in our ropes

Chris

[walugi]

Does that mean if i fall I just hang from my foot? Or as in step through it and put it around my torso?

[NAGG]

Does that mean if i fall I just hang from my foot? Or as in step through it and put it around my torso?

If you are considering falling ..... forget about it ::) Your foot goes in the loop :)

Chris

[walugi]

Excuse my huge ignorance, but how does that help? :P

[sleepygreg]

Walugi, I suggest you get yourself to a camping/adventure store that sells abseiling equipment, and get them to show you some basic knots and rope technique. One of the reasons my mates and I used to be able to go rock fishing in the Sydney area was that we learnt abseiling at school, in the D of E awards program. The area you describe is not familiar to me as I was mostly south side, but from your description should be a relatively easy descent and ascent. Just remember, getting down is the easy part. As another alternative you could join a fishing club that has members who are active in the rockfishing scene and get them to show you. Always be wary of ropes/ladders/chains that are already in place. And look to see if there are any 'angel rings' in place...if there are it means its a regular spot but also a dangerous one.

Greg

[walugi]

Thanks for the advice :-)

Yes, i've been meaning to join a fishing club but i have two apprehensions.

1. The level of commitment involved. I've got uni and jobs going and don't really get much of a chance to go out fishing.
2. My level of knowledge is pretty low, so i wouldn't really bring much to the club.

Although i would love to learn how to fish properly, especially with lures off rocks!

[sleepygreg]

Mate,,,,joining a fishing club is not about what you can bring to the club. Its about learning your chosen sport. Everyone has personal/work commitments, its about balance. The sport you have chosen (rock fishing) is regarded as one of the most dangerous sports in the world. It can also be one of the most rewarding....but like any extreme sport....the particpants do lots of training/education and have the appropriate safety gear/support group. You have stated that you have low knowledge.....I cant think of a better reason to join a club than to gain that knowledge...even if it only to ensure you make it back home each trip and not become another statistic.

Greg

[NAGG]

Excuse my huge ignorance, but how does that help? :P

It doesn,t

If there is no foot hold .... dont go down there - The rope is only for balance / support ( the loop you can grab with your hand - Dont put your foot in the loop due to your inexperience ......too dangerous)
Also dont go on your own
Always lower your gear & rods first....... no backpacks either!

& Take care

Chris

[Jeremy]

Does that mean if i fall I just hang from my foot? Or as in step through it and put it around my torso?

I would suggest that you would want to have a fair bit of experience fishing more easily accessed rock ledges, before trying something requiring rope or chains to access. In addition, you would want to be fairly fit and strong and have your wits about you to go climbing onto difficult rock ledges.

Sorry, but you just do not sound like you have enough experience to me to do this.

Jeremy

[walugi]

I think I made it sound a lot more dangerous then it really is. There are ample footholds, the chain just makes it sure you get down there okay :-) Like I said, it's only a 1.5m drop, except the ledge below isnt that big

I'll revisit the area to refresh my memory and let you guys know.

[cormorant]

Never trust anyone elses chain or rope. The ropes with fresh water often rot internally regardless of them being 100mm,, they are seconds off a tug so have done 1 life already, people vandalise them also and the anchor points are often very suspect.

Sad to say it but having fished a lot of ledges you always take your own gear and you have to keep an eye on it. The problem is that you can't see yoor anchor points when climbing back up and many people have reported having theirs tampered with, ropes stolen etc. Yep someone will get stranded or killed one day but there is scum out there.

The only solution we used was to always use 2-3 anchor points of which at least one was on the vertical face that could not be tampered with from above by anyone - ie 4 foot from the top. This meant that we had only a small fall should the worst have happened and usually ensured ther was foot holes for that last 4 feet.

Go to your local climbing center ( there is one in every seond suburb, from city to ashfield to syd uni itself) , spend a couple of hours with a mate and they will show you a harness, ascendcer and you can get some experience indoors in safety and become a little aware. Gear and quality ropes are not cheap and you can never have enough experience so through your UNI join up the club and since it is a outdoor activity you will probably meet a fisherman or to.

Those ledges often have no phone reception and should never be done alone or you will become a statistic if you are washed in. Learn about rock fishing safety and ther is a DVD avaliable at waterways office or via Recfish I think that has the basics.

We always lower our gear on a second rope and pull it up the same and that rope acts as a safety line from different anchor points. You can't be too safe as over the years I have seen head injuries on blokes only falling 6 feet and it is verty sad.

Often there is a longer track or a secondary access so it is well worth buying some older books on rockfishing in the region you are looking at and they will also explain in what seas a spot is usually OK to fish and when to never leave hop so to speak even if the fish are on.

A lot of people get caught as they can't see the conditions n the platform they are climbing to so when they get there after a climb in are reticent to just go home if they aren't good. My hint is have a cup of coffee and watch and if it is no good climb out without unpacking a reel.

Go with someone experienced and talk to the blokes there as some will have fished it for years.

Keep safe and don't go to serious spots until you have all the gera and experience and someone with more than you. Think about propper boots, gaffs , rescue gear etc and how you will land your monster fish safely. Think about where you will swim to if washed off?


All the chains and ropes are unofficial beware of them

[coucho]

call me a moron but mate if the ledge is only 1.5m high why don't you just fish off the top?

[3rd degree]

Get a solid rope ladder.

Fix it to were the chain is fixed and decend.

Climbing up a rope ladder is pretty easy too!

Cheers

James

[Blackened]

call me a moron but mate if the ledge is only 1.5m high why don't you just fish off the top?


G'day

There may be a big rock shelf quite a fair way out?

Dave

[PNG1M]

I like 3rd Degrees rope ladder idea.
You cld prob'ly get one cheap from a disposals. I think they come rolled up so easy to carry.

Guess it depends on how much you want to fish that particular spot!
Where there's a will there's a way...

There's such a thing as caution but there must be a line somewhere for being 'over cautious'


I pic wld help so we cld visualise the situation.

[walugi]

G'day

There may be a big rock shelf quite a fair way out?

Dave

exactly :-)

i swear i took a pic, i am still trying to find it

[sleepygreg]

Just remember Walugi....you are entering the 'extreme sports' side of fishing. Every one of the people that have posted positive suggestions are experienced at this form of fishing. Note that safety and practice are paramount in their advice. Take Cormorants suggestions very seriously. I want to be reading your reports about rock fishing in years to come......not reading about 'another rockfishing fatality'. I am 50 and would not even think of doing this now as I have neither the fitness nor the strength required to do it safely, but I envy your youth and enthusiasm and wish for you to have a safe and rewarding experience doing something I loved many years ago.

Greg

[walugi]

Thanks for everyone's advice :-)

I must have made it sound very dangerous when in fact it is really quite a tame spot. It's not a notorious spot, and I have spent a good 10 minutes watching it before. The surface is quite clean, with no algae etc so I take that to mean water doesnt get thrown onto it all the time.

Saturday is going to be light winds and small waves so it should be okay. However, it's the full moon so the waves might lick us a few times. I'm going with my dad, so his aged wisdom can guide us :-)

Thanks again everyone!

[cormorant]

If you didn't know Rock fishing accounts for more deaths than any other sport in Australia.

20 minutes to half an hour is a good watch time so take a sandwich and a coffee and tim tam as 10 minutes doesn't cover a full set and check tides and winds. We used to drive past other prospective position on our way to spots and keep a diary of what they looked like in different winds, tides and swells so we knew places that were OK in a particular weather in teh future. We often saw people fishing in spots we wouldn't go near on that day and heard stories of the rescues and injuries far too often.

Also on a ledge where others are fishing there is usually a reason why there is a spot on the edge of where othere are fishing-- it is usually too dangerous and with such limited space people get sucked in to fishing the more dangerous spots.


The 6 foot chain might not be the danger point as I found when doing it a fair bit we had more slips on the thin rocky paths too and from teh actual climbs as we wern't concentrating.

We have helped blokes out with broken arms, dislocations and bad cuts and we could only do it as we bothered to take the right gear. Next stop is the rescue guys and we have done that as well.


Just be extra cautious until you learn and I wouldn't go near a spot that needs ropes till you lear how to use them properly as having the security of them there and people who don't know what to do is more dangerous than not having them at all and being twice as cautious

Most here would have some horror stories of being young and stupid , I was probably more gun ho and stupid than most, and I can say I have had a few occasions that were one step away from big disasters and danger I had either ignored or was not prepared for. 99% of there were my own fault for being stupid and underprepared or being too smart to listen when a old bugger told me to be a bit more careful.


You must be totally self sufficient and not think of relying on outside assistance bar a disaster and then you have to consider how to contact them.

I wouldn't be doing it now without a inflatable life jacket so if I was in the water I would feel comfortable swimming out and to a safe exit point knowing that I also had the option to pull the tag and stay out till help could be sought. Many injuries happen with people getting smashed trying to climb back up the rocks.

[walugi]

Haha, when I post pictures of this place you guys are going to be thinking

'what the hell, i hate this guy, thats a playground compared to where i have been'

The seas aren't that rough here as its not a headland poking into the ocean. I've checked the conditions on Saturday and they're mild. Don't worry guys i will be very cautious!!

[samsnap]

I don't think anyone will be making fun of you - they have given valuable advise that hopefully you will remember far into the future - you are only beginning to rock fish & will choose more spots that you will use the knowledge above for - it becomes a bit of an addiction. I suggest you re-read this thread & remember everything that has been offered forward in safety advise. This has been a very interesting & helpful thread thank you to all who have contributed - I have learnt lots.
Take care Sammy

[walugi]

It is indeed addictive to find the next big spot. I stayed at my last spot for 5 years, and if I find this one to be safe and reasonable then I won't be changing any time soon.

I certainly wouldn't visit those places you see in the magazines, where the ledge is 3cm above the waterline and covered with moss. No fish is worth the amount of crap you would have in your pants after fishing there for a session! Some of the pictures you see of rock fisherman really make you think why some people think they're invincible. I daresay I would rather get hit by a car then a big wave.

[Dug]

Fishing is the most dangerous sport in Australia.

Rock and boat fishing are the 2 most dangerous styles of fishing.

If you are not sure DON"T! Find someone with experience to go with of fish somewhere else.

No fish is worth risking your life for.

[Ozie_3]

mate the solution is so simple.....

get a mate to go down first.... not a mate you can spare but....
if you dont have a mate like that you need to meet more people.....

roflmao

at 40 or less i woulda just done it... now at 59 nfw.....:)

[hooknose]

be a devil, give it a go, check it out, its only 1-1.5 metres as you say !!!!