Major epoxy dissaster, Help!

[Adam_G]

Hi All,

I,ve managed to stuff up the epoxy on my latest rod and I'm not very happy.:'(

I used the same epoxy as before, same measuring cups, same application method and its gone to sh$t. What have I done wrong? As I was applying it I thought it was the best job I had done so far, I managed to get all the bubbles out and it seemed to flow really nicely.

I finished epoxying about 9 o'clock one night last week and let it dry over night. When I went to check it in the morning it looked terrible. Could this be where I went wrong? Is it too cold at the moment to go off overnight?

Can this be fixed by a light sand an re epoxy or must I look at it in discust for years to come?

On the bright side the rest of the build went well and it's still going to catch me some big Snapper:D , specs are:
CTS bay master spin 4-6kg (although it feels more like a 10-12kg rod. I am a little confused by the ratings blanks are sold as compared to an of the shelf rod rating.)
Fuji concept Sic guides
Fuji VSS reel seat and camo grips.

Please help

Adam

[Rodman]

Mate I find that if you do it at night is your rod whilst drying is exposed to the outside elements eg under the house or under the verandah, was the night hot or was it damp
I feel that it may have been to late at night to epoxy?

[Adam_G]

Rodman, It was a cold night and rod was drying in the shed. Any sugestions for a fix?

Adam

[nigelr]

Try putting it out in the sun during the day for a week or so.
Cheers and good luck.

[Willo]

Yeh Adam
I think it would be worth a try, with a light fine sand(i used wet and dry sand paper) and recoat it
Just try one and see how itn goes .Dont forget to tape up the other side of binding so you dont damage the blank during sanding .
And flame your Binding after you finished the epoxy
In the early days I had a problem with a binding and it worked for me ,but my problem wasnt quite as servier as yours
Also a few other Ausfishers might have some more info on how to fix it

Willo

[tunaticer]

I think you will find the bubbles are subsurface as well making any subsequent layers you add now simply locking it in deeper. During winter I place a space heater in the shed overnight whilst the rod is in the rotisserie drying. Worst enemy of epoxy is cold damp environments.
I know of two guys that have drying tubes of 6" poly pipe that holds the rod in the centre of and the whole lot turns slowly whilst curing. A hair drier faces into one end to keep the temp up and the humidity down.
If this was a knock around rod for myself I wouldnt bother fixing it up, for anyone else I would remove that epoxy and redo it properly.

[Tewantin]

Hate to say it but it looks like the problem is throughout the epoxy - especially the last photo. 2 alternatives here... live with it which means you'll never be happy... or cop it on the chin, strip it, and do the lot again (long time happiness).

[Adam_G]

Thanks Guys,

The imperfections are right through the epoxy so I will have to live with it for the time being.

What worries me is that it might happen again, this rod is for me but a couple of mates also want one and I would be devastated if I did that on someone elses rod.

When I had allplied the epoxy I used some heat and removed all the bubbles and it looked like glass which is why I was so shocked in the morning to see the result.

If it is just a weather thing all finishing will have to be done in the day or in the house.

Adam

[The BeaR]

Hi Adam...

My eyes aren't as good as they used to be but the milky look in the photo is normally caused by moisture. In one of the photos you can see what looks like a crater in the epoxy, that looks very much like separation. This is caused by a contaminant and there can be many forms of this. One tip just in case, don't mix your epoxy in any plastic container. And another tip, don't use too much constant heat when removing air as this will boil the epoxy and you won't necessarily see it straight away. It appears when dry as lots of tiny white bubbles throughout the epoxy.
And the only way you will be able to fix your current problem is to cut it off and try again. Practice makes perfect ;-) Just kidding.
Hope this helps a bit.

Eric&Deb...

[finga]

One tip just in case, don't mix your epoxy in any plastic container.
And the only way you will be able to fix your current problem is to cut it off and try again. Practice makes perfect ;-) Just kidding.
Hope this helps a bit.

Eric&Deb...
Why the no plastic container policy Eric??
I never reuse containers but I use either disposable pill cups or disposable plastic wine sampling cups.

If only I had to do each binding once??
I usually do the rod 3 times before I get it right.
Not so bad with guide bindings but when you've spent a day or so on a weave and then something happens...it gets quite frustrating sometimes http://www.smileyhut.com/angry/cursing.gif

[Adam_G]

You're all pointing in the same direction and I don't like it:'( , looks like it has to come off and start again. Any tips for getting it all off without damaging the blank.

Scott, don't tell me things like that I hate doing things more than once.

But not till I catch some fish this weekend, come on good weather:D . I have to get the tally up with my own rod, can't let my BeaR S10 get any further ahead (sorry Eric);D , the bloody thing has caught too many fish already.

Adam

[dogsbody]

Adam just slice the thread and epoxy off on top of the guide foot. Once you get a hold of some thread you can unwind it and the epoxy will fly off. Can use the back of a knife to knock epoxy off the blank.

Dave

[The BeaR]

Adam...It's all good mate, at least you got your priorities right...fishing first, rod building second.
Finga...The reason for not using plastic is that when you mix part A and part B, it starts a chemical reaction which can leach some of the nasties out of the plastic. You may get away with it 9 times out of 10, but it's that 10th time when it all goes wrong that you are trying to eliminate. So why not just get rid of all the problems to start with and plastic mixing cups are just one of them.

Eric&Deb...

[finga]

It looks like I need to turn up a mixing dish then out of a bit chuck of aluminium I've been saving for a decent project :)
But at the rate I'm making rods the 1 in 10 will take about 17 years to occur :(

[Mark Fisher]

Mate, I look at it this way. You have paid a heap for the blank and the fittings - why not do it right and be happy with it? If you fish with it as it is you'll continue looking at the bindings and thinking "I'll have to re-do them". Cut them off and re bind them. Personally, I'd also do a locking wrap around the guide leg to prevent the guides being pulled out lengthwise.

My method of epoxying is to get a piece of aluminium foil and fold it several times so it is a few layers thick. Place it over a small bowl or dish and slightly press the foil down so it is a concave shape. Mix up your epoxy batch (I use 3mm of hardner and resin measured through 5mm syringes). The room should be warm and if you have to use a heater get the room warm 30 minutes or so before you epoxy. Apply your epoxy as normal then lightly flame it. I then use a hollow brass tube like a drinking straw to lightly blow your breath over the wraps. This removes any tiny little bubbles. Check the whole rod over a few times and then leave it alone. Re-coat 12-24 hours later.

I think your problem was the cold. It looks like the micro bubbles in the epoxy haven't released. When I'm applying epoxy I make sure the room is warm to hot!


Regards
Mark

[oldboot]

Most epoxies and finish chemicals (paints and laquers) are effected by temperature and humidity. If you can get hold of all the proper specs these effects should be detailed or at least discussed.

One of the wood craft epoxies I played with at one time " Glasscoat" I think came with very specific instructions concerning its temperature and humidity tolerance....conditions that were quite specific........
Too hot and the stuff is too runny to get any build, too cold and it wont flow and getting bubbles out is almost imposible.
I dont know what happens when it is too dry, but if it is too damp you run the risk of the material blooming ( going cloudy) particularly if it goes from warm to cool.

I have a hygrometer and a thermomiter in my shed which I consult before doing anything like this.
I know a bloke that did a lot of poster and clock work with glasscoat & he built a climate controlled room to do it all in.

As for the plastic containers....I would be suspect of PVC and the softer plastics ( soft, cloudy or coloured plastics) as they may not be solvent resistant and may also leach plasticisers.

but HDPE (soft drink bottle material) or PETE ( similar) should be fine. HDPE is resistant to most solvents in the short term, It will go brittle in the long term ( like overnight with thinners).

Photogloss, supply two different size HDPE cups specificaly for mixing epoxy in.
The bigger they supply is the size of a drinking cup, the smaller the size of a large medicine cup, both with metric and imperial graduations... cheap as chips by the tube.

Of late I have been using standard HDPE drinking cups for both mixing epoxy and measuring finish chemicals......
Look on the bottom for the recycling symbol & it should have HDPE or PETE beside it.
HDPE and PETE cups and bottles are generaly crystal clear when fresh.

cheers

[Adam_G]

It's looking more and more like the atmosphere was the main culprit for my failure.

Thanks for all the help, I'll post pics of 'finishing mkII' when it gets done.

Adam

[Rodman]

Mate I find that if you do it at night is your rod whilst drying is exposed to the outside elements eg under the house or under the verandah, was the night hot or was it damp
I feel that it may have been to late at night to epoxy?

Mate I feel that it is the cold weather that is causing the problem especially as you were applying the epoxy at 9pm at night it is best to do it during a fine day.
You will have to remove the old epoxy and start again SORRY


Ken

[d-man]

The longer you leave it to cut the bindings the harder the epoxy will be. If you can get it within a couple of days to a week the epoxy will be much easier to cut