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supa29
19-05-2009, 06:24 PM
I have been in a battle with my boat for 3 years to track down a fuel problem that up to a week ago was driving me crazy.I have a 6.5m allycraft centre consule driven by 2 merc 4 stroke 50's, and the problem was while driving offshore i would loose all power back to walking speed at full throttles, when i backed off it would stall and only start under full idle.

The first thing was to get carbies cleaned 3 times by 3 different dealers which helped for a short time but then same old same old.
Next i cleaned both my tanks out 5 times both tanks {150 litres each} now this was not fun through the sensor holes buit only got teaspoon of shit out of each tank every time.
I contacted Mercury all over the place asking for advise but noone could give me any reason for the problem.

Now after 3 years of this problem i was going to sell them but i couldnt let some other fisherman buy them and i hate getting beaten.

just happened into Caloundra Marine and was talking to owner about other things and mentioned my problem when he turned and gave me a sheet on E10 unleaded. now i dont use E10 but do use normal unleaded to which he told me servos are putting E10 into normal unleaded.
This is the important bit:
E10 FUEL ONLY LASTS 14 DAYS IN YOUR FUEL TANK BEFORE IT SEPERATES INTO 3 DIFFERENT PARTS.
1} UNLEADED FUEL ON THE TOP
2}WATER IN THE MIDDLE
3}PURE 100% ETHENOL ONTHE BOTTOM.

And because ethenol in thinner the fuel it attracts water which sticks to it and travels into your motors passing through all filters and clogging your jets. so as he told me i was pumping [pure ethenol into my motors and then water mix and this was the cause of my problems. so i done some googling and found some really scary info. just google e10 in boats problems.

so now i use premium unleaded only and to this day no problems fingers crossed so dont fall into the trap of putting normal or e10 unleaded in your boat tanks cause you will pay the price. i wil try and scan the sheet he give me so i can attach it to ths tread but anyone can pm me and i can fax it to you.

good fishing guys 8-)

BaitThrower
19-05-2009, 06:54 PM
i dont believe E10 is put into all unleaded fuel... at least not without saying it has it... Or unless you get fuel from BP ;)

Where were you getting your regular unleaded?

I happen to use Shell V-Power in my Yammy 2-stroke and no problems... but have used regular unleaded (not E10) before and no hassles either (from Shell).

mowerman
19-05-2009, 07:09 PM
Have a look at this thread mate.


http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=149506


Rod

Why-ting
19-05-2009, 07:47 PM
Im having a bit of drama with my 115 E-tec at the moment. Some similar symtoms to yours. Its going for a service this week so ill have a chat with the mechanic. Cheers for the heads up.

Whytey

Damned67
19-05-2009, 10:18 PM
I've only had my (first) boat since the Easter weekend, but had previously read of ethanol problems. Indeed, my owners manual also warns against ethanol blends.
'Some' servos only sell E10 blends. I avoid those, and if I'm at an unfamiliar servo, I go in and ask which ones are E10 blends. I always (I sound like I'm experienced!) use premium fuel, but like I said, some servos even have E10 in their premium.

darylive
19-05-2009, 10:29 PM
Don't use that s#it. My Honda manual specifically states the warranty is void if you use Ethanol.

stinky-stabi
20-05-2009, 07:41 AM
Im having a bit of drama with my 115 E-tec at the moment. Some similar symtoms to yours. Its going for a service this week so ill have a chat with the mechanic. Cheers for the heads up.

Whytey

i had the same problem....buying from BP is a no no i have found


change supply and problem gone after trip to dealer

WalFish
20-05-2009, 08:06 AM
Yep, won't touch anything that even comes within a wiff of containing ethanol. Way too many documented problems arising from the use and storage of ethanol based blends. Has been known to turn some rubber and plastic fuel components to jelly, which then breaks down and hey presto, a self destructing fuel system. >:(

I rang the head of Ford servicing about my old BA falcon and questioned the use of e10 - they said that while they don't have any "documented" issues resulting from its use, I quote "but we certainly don't recommend its use". :worried2:

Make up your own mind, but I only run premium in my motorcycle, premium in the new Territory, and the new boat will only have NON ethanol based fuels to drink through the Honda.

Environmentally friendly, but not engine friendly

WalFish

Jeremy
20-05-2009, 08:18 AM
premium ULP (PULP) is NOT recommended for outboards. Do a search of this forum for more info. I have always used ULP and never had a problem. Maye it was just your local that was being sly?
Jeremy

Mindi
20-05-2009, 08:46 AM
So this rermains a significant unresolved problem given many people believe that E is sometimes being added to standard ULP without declaring it, and Premium PULP is NOT recommended for outboards as Jeremy correctly points out. This has all the look of a problem where a political decision to always add E to ULP making E10 is likely leaving boaters in the lurch somewhat..?

Blaster Bretty
20-05-2009, 09:08 AM
premium ULP (PULP) is NOT recommended for outboards. Do a search of this forum for more info. I have always used ULP and never had a problem. Maye it was just your local that was being sly?
Jeremy

Yeah im with jeremy on this one too! Now I own a 2 banger and Ive always been on the understanding that premium gas doe's not blend with oils as well and also burns hotter and can create problem's such as blowing holes in pistons etc! is this true...Who knows because for the first 2 months of owning my boat I ran ,the then called, optimax ( now V-power) and never had an issue, I only stopped upon advice gained from this site, Now I only use regular unleaded (without ethanol of course) and have only had one drama in the past year where it turns out the fuel I had may have been a bit "icky" but tipped it out and put new plugs + filter and fresh fuel and im off again!
I myself am at a loss as to what fuel is best but I do know that 4 stroke's go better with high octane fuel. Also it is worth pointing out that I have a small tank that after refilling gets shaken up and all to mix in the oil etc, by doing this It keeps the fuel well mixed as I use the boat every weekend!
Just my thought's

bretty

harry_h01
20-05-2009, 09:32 AM
I've got a '94 40hp Johnson, with a 40lt tank. I've been using the optimax and pre-mixing on advice from the service centre in Gladstone. He advised that most of the oil will be mixed due to the action of the trailer on the road before I get to the ramp.

Seeing as I don't do a lot of trips and the fuel can be left standing for a couple of weeks before the next run, I prefer the higher octane. Never had any problems with pinging, or the likes, and the last service the service agent was happy with the state of the carbs etc.

So to each their own.

As to the E10, I have notice some servos have an E10 pump, but are not labeling all their pumps. I got caught out with the car when I started filling from what I thought was the normal pump only to see a little disclaimer on the end of the sticker on the glass, written in spmall print was caution this pump has been treated with ethanol.

Harry

aussiebasser
20-05-2009, 11:59 AM
This is from Mercury Marine in the US regarding Ethanol in Gasoline.



Mercury Marine remains very active in developing a thorough understanding of important issues and environments in which our products must operate. Mercury’s engineers work constantly to expand our understanding of fuel technologies and their interactions with all Mercury products to ensure they perform properly and reliably. Mercury personnel work in concert with industry groups, such as the National Marine Manufacturers Association (NMMA), to offer input into the overall processes by which many decisions are made regarding fuel regulations and energy policies so future problems are minimized and future developments are beneficial to those who utilize our products.
Included below is a list of questions and answers that address typical concerns of consumers.
Please feel free to contact any Mercury Marine field representative with questions, or contact us at public.relations@mercmarine.com. Mercury will do its best to help find answers, whether you’re seeking general information or wishing to discuss legal proposals, or if you’re seeking information regarding ethanol-tolerant materials.
1. What are ethanol and ethanol-blended fuels?
Ethanol for fuel is highly refined beverage (grain) alcohol, approximately 200 proof, that can be produced from natural products such as corn, sugar cane and wheat. New technology will allow ethanol to be made from “cellulosic” feedstocks including corn stalks, grain straw, paper, pulp, wood chips, municipal waste, switchgrass and other sources. Ethanol used for fuel has been “denatured,” or rendered unsafe to drink by the addition of a hydrocarbon (usually gasoline). The ethanol-blended fuel E-10 refers to fuel that contains 10 percent ethanol and 90 percent gasoline. Similarly, E-85 refers to fuel that contains 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. E-85 is intended only for engines specially designed to accept high-ethanol content fuel blends, such as the Flexible Fuel Vehicles (FFV) made by some car companies.
2. How is ethanol made?
In the U.S., ethanol is typically produced by removing the starch or sugar portion of corn and fermenting it. The fermented starch is then distilled into alcohol. Excess water is removed, resulting in very pure – 200 proof – ethyl alcohol (ethanol).
In some parts of the world, ethanol is made from a variety of raw materials. For example, sugar cane is used to produce ethanol in Brazil, while sugar beets and wheat straw are commonly used in Europe.
3. What are the characteristics of ethanol?
Ethanol is an oxygenated hydrocarbon compound that has a high octane rating and therefore is useful in increasing the octane level of unleaded gasoline. The EPA, the agency responsible for setting some of the requirements for all gasoline used in the U.S., has allowed the use of ethanol in gasoline at levels up to 10 percent as an octane enhancer and to provide beneficial clean-burning combustion characteristics that help improve some emissions.
Ethanol is hygroscopic (it has an attraction for water) and will more readily mix with water than with gasoline. It has different solvency behaviors than does gasoline, which allows it to loosen rust and debris that might lay undisturbed in fuel systems. And it can more readily remove plasticizers and resins from certain plastic materials that might not be affected by gasoline alone. Loose debris will plug filters and can interfere with engine operation. Additionally, ethanol is corrosive to some metals, especially in combination with water. Although gasoline does not conduct electricity well, ethanol has an appreciable capability to conduct electricity and therefore can promote galvanic corrosion.
4. What is MTBE and why is it being replaced?
MTBE is the chemical shorthand description for methyl tertiary-butyl ether. MTBE is another oxygenated hydrocarbon compound that has a high octane rating. It was initially a preferred compound widely used for octane enhancement as a replacement for leaded compounds in gasoline. When the EPA developed regulations requiring oxygenated gasoline to help reduce smog in several areas of the country, MTBE was the most commonly used compound to supply the additional oxygen, while ethanol was chosen for this purpose in the Midwest region of the country. Recently, most states have banned the use of MTBE because of its tendency to work its way into ground water systems, usually from leaks and spills, as an undesirable contaminant. Ethanol is being used as a replacement.
5. Does ethanol affect horsepower or fuel-efficiency?
Ethanol has a heating value of 76,000 BTU per gallon, which is approximately 30 percent less than gasoline’s heating value (which is approximately 109,000 to 119,000 BTU/gal). The result is E-10 gasoline which should yield slightly lower mileage – a decrease of approximately 3 percent. Fuels containing higher levels of ethanol will have a corresponding reduction in mileage. For example, E85 fuels produce mileage approximately 30 percent less than gasoline.
The octane rating of pure ethanol (200 proof) is about 100 and is therefore useful in elevating the octane value of gasoline. In E-10 blends the presence of ethanol provides about 2.5 to 3 percent of the overall octane rating. The effect on engine horsepower is determined by the octane result of the blended fuel. Care should be taken to select fuels having the octane rating recommended for the engine as indicated in the owner’s manual for proper operation.
Compatibility with Mercury Engines
6. Are Mercury engines compatible with ethanol fuels?
The fuel-system components of Mercury engines will withstand up to 10 percent alcohol content in gasoline – the maximum level currently allowed by the EPA in the U.S. There are some efforts to establish E-20 (20 percent ethanol mixed with 80 gasoline) for use in some areas, but that will require agreement from EPA to grant a waiver. Part of the EPA waiver process will require verification from studies that demonstrate that higher levels of ethanol do not create problems with fuel-system materials or operation of hardware. E-20 has not been extensively studied by Mercury and is not acceptable for use in Mercury products. E-85 fuels must not be used in any Mercury engines and could seriously damage current Mercury products. It is not legal in the U.S. to market any ethanol fuel as gasoline if it contains more than 10 percent ethanol.
7. Will the use of fuels containing ethanol void my engine warranty?
Fuels containing up to 10 percent ethanol are considered acceptable for use in Mercury engines. Fuels containing higher levels of ethanol are not considered acceptable for use, and the use of fuels containing ethanol higher than 10 percent can void the warranty.

8. What about the fuel-system components on the boat?
It is important to follow boat manufacturers’ recommendations when selecting appropriate fuels. Use of an inappropriate fuel can result in damage to the engine and boat components that may require repair or replacement. Fuels with ethanol can attack some fuel-system components, such as tanks and lines, if they are not made from acceptable ethanol-compatible materials. This can lead to operational problems or safety issues such as clogged filters, leaks or engine damage.
9. Can ethanol-blended fuels affect the performance of two-stroke engines?
Two-stroke outboards should experience little or no decrease in performance due to gasoline fuels containing up to 10-percent ethanol when operated according to Mercury’s standard recommendations. When gasoline with ethanol is used for the first time after a fuel changeover from MTBE, the tank must be completely dry prior to introduction of gasoline with ethanol. Otherwise, phase separation could occur that could cause filter plugging or damage to the engine. If an engine is a 1990 or older model frequent inspections of all fuel-system components are advised to identify any signs of leakage, softening, hardening, swelling or corrosion. If any sign of leakage or deterioration is observed, replacement of the affected components is required before further operation.
10. How does ethanol affect my fiberglass fuel tank?
Fiberglass tanks manufactured prior to 1991 may not be compatible with gasoline containing ethanol. It has been reported that, in the presence of ethanol, some resins may be drawn out of fiberglass and carried into the engine where severe damage could occur. If an older fiberglass tank is used, check with the manufacturer to determine if gasoline with ethanol can be safely used.
11. Are older fuel lines prone to failure? What about gaskets?
During the 1980s, many rubber components for use in fuel systems were developed to withstand exposure to fuels containing ethanol. If rubber components in a fuel system are suspected to be of this vintage or older it may be advisable to replace them with newer ethanol-safe components before using fuels containing ethanol. Check with the manufacturer for advice or frequently inspect these fuel-system components for signs of swelling or deterioration and replace if problems are noted.

Recommended Practices
12. Ethanol is replacing MTBE in my region? What should I do?
Before gasoline with ethanol is introduced to your fuel tank, ask your boat manufacturer if any special precautions should be considered with the use of fuel containing ethanol. Check for the presence of water in the fuel tank. If any is found, remove all water and dry the tank completely. As a precaution, it is advisable to carry a few extra filters in case filter plugging becomes a problem during boating.
13. Should I add an additional fine-micron filter to the system to prevent debris from entering the engine?
The addition of another filter to the system will create another possible flow restriction that can starve the engine of fuel. Mercury already provides the appropriate level of filtration to protect the engine from debris.
14. How can a marina prepare for the change from MTBE to ethanol as the fuel oxygenate?
Check with the manufacturer to make certain the tank and lines won’t experience problems with ethanol. Inspect the tank for water and, if present, pump out all water and thoroughly clean the tank. Install ethanol-compatible filters. The tank should be less than 20 percent full before adding the first load of fuel with ethanol.
15. What is phase separation, and how do I deal with it?
If significant amounts of water are present in a fuel tank with gasoline that contains ethanol, the water will be drawn into the fuel until the saturation point is reached for the three-component mixture of water + gasoline + ethanol. Beyond this level of water, phase separation could cause most of the ethanol and water to separate from the bulk fuel and drop to the bottom of the tank, leaving gasoline with a significantly reduced level of ethanol in the upper phase (see Figure 1 below). If the lower phase of water and ethanol is large enough to reach the fuel inlet, it could be pumped directly to the engine and cause significant problems. Even if the ethanol water phase at the bottom of the tank is not drawn into the fuel inlet, the reduced ethanol level of the fuel reduces the octane rating by as much as 3 octane numbers, which could result in engine problems.
The level at which phase separation can occur is determined by a number of variables, including the amount of ethanol, the composition of the fuel, the temperature of the environment and the presence of contaminants. It is very important (A) that the system is inspected for significant quantities of water in the tank before using gasoline with ethanol and (B) to limit exposure of the fuel tank to excess water. If phase separation has occurred, it is necessary to completely remove all free water from the system and replace the fuel before continuing operation. Otherwise, engine problems could occur.

Figure 1: Sample of fuel from fuel tank in which phase separation
has occurred. The upper phase is gasoline with a reduced level
of ethanol. The lower level is a mixture of ethanol and water.
16. Is an additive available that can prevent phase separation?
There is no practical additive that can prevent phase separation from occurring. The only practical solution is to keep water from accumulating in the tank in the first place.
17. Are there any additives that can allow the phase-separated mixture to remix when added to the fuel tank?
No, the only way to avoid further problems is to remove the water, dispose of the depleted fuel, clean the tank and start with a fresh, dry load of fuel.

18. Is there a simple solution to water condensation in the tank as a result of ethanol?
It is best to maintain a full tank of fuel when the engine is not in use. This will reduce the void space above the fuel and will reduce the flow of air in and out of the tank with changes in temperature. This will reduce condensation on the internal walls of the tank and will limit exposure of the ethanol in the fuel to humidity and condensation.
19. What should be done when storing boats with ethanol-blended fuels for extended periods? When preparing to store a boat for extended periods of two months or more, it is best to completely remove all fuel from the tank. If it is difficult or not possible to remove the fuel, maintaining a full tank of fuel with a fuel stabilizer added to provide fuel stability and corrosion protection is recommended. A partially full tank is not recommended because the void space above the fuel allows air movement that can bring in water through condensation as the temperature cycles up and down. This condensation potentially becomes a problem. Mercury Marine Fuel System Treatment & Stabilizer can help maintain fuel systems in storage. It contains oxidation inhibitors to reduce oxidation and gum formation, metal chelating agents to protect metal components from corrosion, water absorbing agents to reduce the presence of free water, and dispersants to help suspend and disperse debris. It is best used by adding to the tank at the recommended dosage, running the engine for 10 minutes to allow the system to be cleaned, shutting off the fuel valve to interrupt the fuel supply and allow the engine to run until it stops, topping off the tank until it’s full, and capping any openings to reduce the amount of exchange with the air that might bring in condensation.
- end -

curiser
20-05-2009, 12:09 PM
Most ULP have ethanol in them, if there is less than 10% like 9.5% there is no requirment to lable it and can be sold as standard ULP Even some PULP have ethanol in then but less than 10% There is no tax on ethanol so fuel com and servos make more per lt. Buyer beware

Goldfinch
20-05-2009, 12:44 PM
We need a national database of servos that sell non-ethanol based fuel. We can call them "Boat Friendly" servos.

Donny Boy
20-05-2009, 02:13 PM
We need a national database of servos that sell non-ethanol based fuel. We can call them "Boat Friendly" servos.

Now there's an idea......................:D

And where would be a good place to start talking too ???????

Fuelwatch perhaps ?? :-/

Mindi
20-05-2009, 03:06 PM
thats a top article Aussiebasser...thanks for posting that.

Dean1
20-05-2009, 03:11 PM
Motors running rough?? Mmmm are you sure you dont have a hole somewhere and you have straight coke running into your engine cylinders??

Nah seriously good to see you put this up Ned, I fueled my boat up at that servo a few times remember, hopefully youv solved the problem. Ive started putting premium in mine now after what you said but always thought it wasnt a good thing for them. Anyway dont let Mike catch you on here ;D . Cheers.

rowanda
20-05-2009, 10:33 PM
some of the comments I have just read are totally uneducated.
I agree DO NOT USE E10 IN BOATS (or even worse Aviation)
Ethanol does have properties that if water is there it will absorb it, add as little as 0.5% water and it will phase seperate.
The comment made that you can add 9.5% ethanol and not legally have to label it is incorrect. Any ethanol added must be stated on the pump.
If someone is selling an ethanol blended fuel and not labelling it, they should be reported, it gives a bad name to the people doing the correct thing. Its not that fuel companies want to sell E10, the Govt is making them sell renewable fuels!!
Ethanol does now attract tax. Back in the old days when dodgy bros down the rd was selling blends up to 50-60% ethanol and making alot off it, it didn't attract the same taxes as fuel, but that has been changed (more Govt revenue)
I have spoken to many marine mechanics about premium fuels. It is an under octane rating that will make your engine "ping" not the other way around. I have had boats for the last 20yrs and have for the last 10 atleast always used premium (non ethanol blends) fuel without any issues. Worth a couple of cents more and if it sits around for a while and drops some octane, then wont do the same sort of damage normal ULP would've if left for the same time.
I think it is 2011 the Govt is phasing out all normal ULP, so your choice will be E10 or premium, I know which I will be using.

BM
21-05-2009, 08:33 AM
Now there's an idea......................:D

And where would be a good place to start talking too ???????

Fuelwatch perhaps ?? :-/

This is a great idea and the appropriate entity to take this up would be the BIA's in each state.

cheers

Gary Fooks
21-05-2009, 01:28 PM
Most ULP have ethanol in them, if there is less than 10% like 9.5% there is no requirment to lable it and can be sold as standard ULP Even some PULP have ethanol in then but less than 10% There is no tax on ethanol so fuel com and servos make more per lt. Buyer beware


Not true at all. There is a compulsory labelling of any ethanol in fuel and 10% is the maximum.

I wrote and researched stories on this late year (PM me with your email address for a copy of the best one)

I am addressiing the National Marine Safety conference on this tomorrow.

E10 is not a greenie push but a farmer push - to sell crops. NSW announced a 10% mandate by 2011. According to The Australian (5 Jan) the biggest winner will be Manildra. They also point out that Manildra was the biggest single donor to the Labor party in the last NSW election.

NSW will have an exemption for fuel from Marinas and PULP. So no matetr where you go it will cost about 10cpl more.

Qld will have a 5% mandate - meaning half the sales will have to be E10. Th eonly way I can see to mak ethat happen is to widen the price gap - currently 3cpl. With E10 having 10% less energy , 3cpl discount is a small rip off.

More in the 5 page story si you want to read about the issues.

Gary

In the USA the boating industry is fighing against E15 saying E10 is a disaster. In Australia industry is doing zip.

Gary Fooks
21-05-2009, 01:39 PM
PS BP, the Qld Govt and Maritime NSW have all issued warnings about not using ethanol in boats.

If anyone has proof that ethanol i sbeing illegally added ( and I mean proof) let me know and I will get it straight to the right people.

Gary

Pete62
21-05-2009, 02:29 PM
Yep, won't touch anything that even comes within a wiff of containing ethanol. Way too many documented problems arising from the use and storage of ethanol based blends. Has been known to turn some rubber and plastic fuel components to jelly, which then breaks down and hey presto, a self destructing fuel system. >:(

I rang the head of Ford servicing about my old BA falcon and questioned the use of e10 - they said that while they don't have any "documented" issues resulting from its use, I quote "but we certainly don't recommend its use". :worried2:

Make up your own mind, but I only run premium in my motorcycle, premium in the new Territory, and the new boat will only have NON ethanol based fuels to drink through the Honda.

Environmentally friendly, but not engine friendly

WalFish

On a recent trip, unfamiliar, servo, I noticed after a few days on the water some of the silicone around the transom bolts had turned to jelly. Could I be a victim of unknowingly adding an Ethanol blend?

Pete.

Mindi
21-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Not true at all. There is a compulsory labelling of any ethanol in fuel and 10% is the maximum.

I wrote and researched stories on this late year (PM me with your email address for a copy of the best one)

I am addressiing the National Marine Safety conference on this tomorrow.

E10 is not a greenie push but a farmer push - to sell crops. NSW announced a 10% mandate by 2011. According to The Australian (5 Jan) the biggest winner will be Manildra. They also point out that Manildra was the biggest single donor to the Labor party in the last NSW election.

NSW will have an exemption for fuel from Marinas and PULP. So no matetr where you go it will cost about 10cpl more.

Qld will have a 5% mandate - meaning half the sales will have to be E10. Th eonly way I can see to mak ethat happen is to widen the price gap - currently 3cpl. With E10 having 10% less energy , 3cpl discount is a small rip off.

More in the 5 page story si you want to read about the issues.

Gary

In the USA the boating industry is fighing against E15 saying E10 is a disaster. In Australia industry is doing zip.

Absolutely right Gary but to be fair Manildra is also a huge contributor to the National Party... more than Labor I believe...so that is certainly where the push is from.
Post a note on how your presentation goes..?

Scott nthQld
21-05-2009, 10:08 PM
Yes a list of servos where good proper fuel is available would be handy, but also, what about test cards? you know like the ph tester tabs you use for testing your pool water, same principle, but instead of reacting to ph levels, is reacts with ethanol content. A sure fire way to make sure you are getting the correct fuel.

I don't know if this would even be possible on a large scale, but if they were available it would certainly smarten any dodgy servos up and they might start giving people what they pay for. I don't know how it would work without pumping any fuel out at all, but I'd rather squirt a bit into a jar or something, test it and then fill the boat up so at least for a couple of extra cents I'll be 100% certain on what I am feeding the outboard, or car for that matter.

the gecko
22-05-2009, 08:24 AM
Im having enigne probs, and I think fuel testing is a great idea. I think there might be some dodgy bros still adding e10 to ulp.....

How do we test it? By putting some fuel in a bottle , and waiting 14-21 days to see if it seperates?

Is there a better method?

cheers
Andrew

fishing111
22-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Found this test for $25.




Alcohol (Ethanol) Fuel Test Kit http://www.theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/AFTK_w6_Quik_Check.jpg (http://www.fueltestkit.com/) http://www.theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/spacer.gif
For immediate order and shipment of Ethanol Fuel Test Kits contact:
Fuel-Testers Company: Order an Ethanol Alcohol Fuel Test Kit. (http://www.fueltestkit.com/order.html)

fueltestkit@yahoo.com
http://www.fueltestkit.com/ (http://www.fueltestkit.com/)

Fuel-Testers accepts orders accepted by phone, fax, email and online.
-------------------------------------------

Now Available to the public!

ETHANOL ALCOHOL FUEL TEST KIT

Tests fuel for alcohol - ethanol) content %.

Re-usable. Simple. Easy. Accurate. Fast!

Simple, easy, inexpensive.
DIRECTIONS: Mix small amount water and fuel from pump or tank into the test tube included (test tube has markings at level of gas and water to be added); Shake to mix the contents.
Wait a few minutes until settled.
An increase in the amount of water on the gauge indicates the exact percentage of alcohol present in the fuel.

Caution: Fuel that tests greater than 10 % alcohol (legal limit for E10 gasoline) is dangerous and should not be used in conventional engines.

Steboe
22-05-2009, 04:05 PM
Im having enigne probs, and I think fuel testing is a great idea. I think there might be some dodgy bros still adding e10 to ulp.....

How do we test it? By putting some fuel in a bottle , and waiting 14-21 days to see if it seperates?

Is there a better method?

cheers
Andrew
Just add water,E10 will absorb a maximum of about 5ml of water per liter, any more and separation will occur.
So you need an accurate measuring tube, if you add say 10mL/lit of water to your test sample and you can see more water after the separation, then you have ethanol in the fuel.
Try this by adding some metho to petrol.
Ken

supa29
22-05-2009, 07:33 PM
sounds like im not the only one that is hving trouble with fuel, i have had a 1.25litre bottle of unleaded sitting on my work bench, it has a definate clear section on the bottom. on the bottom of the coke bottle a white sludge has settled in the ribs around the bottom and has filled each of these ribs.
it has been sitting there for 3 weeks with the lid of and it has really surprised me how much water it has absorbed and how it has definately got a clear section of about 2inches off the bottom. i am hoping to get a sample of the fuel tested by B.P next week so i will keep everyone informed how it goes but i wil never put ulp or e10 anywhere near my boat again, have talked to mechanic and he informs me that premium will not hurt new 4 strokes, cant be any worse than the shit that i was using.

supa...

danny412
22-05-2009, 07:59 PM
Will using premium hurt a merc 50 hp oil injected??

NAGG
22-05-2009, 08:00 PM
Most ULP have ethanol in them, if there is less than 10% like 9.5% there is no requirment to lable it and can be sold as standard ULP Even some PULP have ethanol in then but less than 10% There is no tax on ethanol so fuel com and servos make more per lt. Buyer beware


I'm confident that if you buy your fuel from BP , Caltex or Shell ...... you will not get ethonol in your ULP .
The independants ....... who knows !
Me ..... I try my hardest to only buy ULP from Shell first & BP second.
finally .... when I bought my Yammi 4 stroke I was told by the Service manager that Regular ULP was preferred & PULP would offer no advantage.

Chris

BaitThrower
22-05-2009, 08:43 PM
Ermm *some* of the BP servos down my way have ethanol in both their ULP and PULP blends.
Be careful of BP!

Mindi
23-05-2009, 03:24 PM
Found this test for $25.




Alcohol (Ethanol) Fuel Test Kit http://www.theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/AFTK_w6_Quik_Check.jpg (http://www.fueltestkit.com/) http://www.theoutboardwizard.bizhosting.com/cgi-bin/image/templates/spacer.gif
For immediate order and shipment of Ethanol Fuel Test Kits contact:
Fuel-Testers Company: Order an Ethanol Alcohol Fuel Test Kit. (http://www.fueltestkit.com/order.html)

fueltestkit@yahoo.com
http://www.fueltestkit.com/ (http://www.fueltestkit.com/)

Fuel-Testers accepts orders accepted by phone, fax, email and online.
-------------------------------------------

Now Available to the public!

ETHANOL ALCOHOL FUEL TEST KIT

Tests fuel for alcohol - ethanol) content %.

Re-usable. Simple. Easy. Accurate. Fast!

Simple, easy, inexpensive.
DIRECTIONS: Mix small amount water and fuel from pump or tank into the test tube included (test tube has markings at level of gas and water to be added); Shake to mix the contents.
Wait a few minutes until settled.
An increase in the amount of water on the gauge indicates the exact percentage of alcohol present in the fuel.

Caution: Fuel that tests greater than 10 % alcohol (legal limit for E10 gasoline) is dangerous and should not be used in conventional engines.


Paul that looks really good and as cheap as chips...about $6 usd for 180 tests..? mind you importing something like that might just be a problem..but I reckon this is the way to go. Even though it is illegal to sell undeclared E blend I wouldnt trust anyone other than perhaps Woolworths who have too much to lose and own their own outlets. Well found.

rowanda
23-05-2009, 06:41 PM
BaitThrower, I can tell you, you are incorrect. BP doesn't have ethanol in their PULP. They do have E10 ULP and it should be labelled at the pumps.
As NAGG said, if you buy from a major brand you are about a safe as you can get.
There will always be dodgy operators. As said before, there soon will be no plain ULP, it will be all E10 (2011) thanks to the govt.
Yes there maybe no performance benefit of PULP, but if left the octane rating will stay higher if left sit and most PULP (except some of the smaller brands) should be ethanol free.

Angla
23-05-2009, 10:13 PM
Personally I have been using the 95 octane BP product with no ill effects to date. I have been warned by an operator once to not use the ULP product in the marine environment.
I have a 135 Optimax and it states that it recommends 90 ron minimum in the handbook so I figure the premium 97 or 98 ron is not an advantage. I usually add 60 to 100 litres to fill the 160 litre tank every time before going out, not after having been out. Some times the remaining fuel has sat for up to 2 months. No ill effects so far.

Cheers
Chris

NAGG
24-05-2009, 08:42 AM
Ermm most of the BP servos down my way have ethanol in both their ULP and PULP blends.
Be careful of BP!

Are you sure ?

BP sell E10 as a stand alone product.
PULP (98 RON) with ethonol ...... I wouldn't think so :-/ The claims of damage to engines of performance cars would not be worth the risk.

Chris

DaMaGe
24-05-2009, 09:59 AM
I have a Johnson/Suzuki 115 4stroke that uses either Caltex or BP normal Unleaded (not E10) with no ill effects. I would certainly feel a little uncomfortable using fuel from Independant fuel station for boats. I had hope that an underlying trust would occur with brand name fuel stations not to throw ethanol in their blends.

Sometimes boat sits in storage with 50% fuel tank for up to 2 months before it is re-topped up and heads offshore once again.

P.S Motor is rated for 87 Pump Posted AKI (90 RON) and check out this quote from manual...



Using unleaded gasoline that contains methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) is acceptable ONLY if the MTBE content does not exceed 15% by volume.
Using alcohol-extended fuels is acceptable ONLY if the alcohol content does not exceed;
10% ethanol by volume; or
5% methanol with 5% consolvents by volume
-------------------------------
Your outboard has been designed to operate using the above fuels; however, be aware of the following;
The boats fuel system may have different requirements regarding the use of alcohol fuels. Refer to boat owners manual.
Alcohol attracts and holds moisture that can cause corrosion of metallic parts in the fuel system.
Alcohol blended fuel can cause engine performance problems.
----------------------------------

Mindi
24-05-2009, 03:54 PM
I'm confident that if you buy your fuel from BP , Caltex or Shell ...... you will not get ethonol in your ULP .
The independants ....... who knows !
Me ..... I try my hardest to only buy ULP from Shell first & BP second.
finally .... when I bought my Yammi 4 stroke I was told by the Service manager that Regular ULP was preferred & PULP would offer no advantage.

Chris


Maybe...I think that while it is counter intuitive "old" PULP is likely to actually be lower octane than "old" ULP... different evaporative behaviour..? and so ULP is preferred in outboards to PULP but not a big deal. The line is usually "PULP offers no advantage" as you say. Happy to be corrected by Gary F on this but I recall reading something from BP which made me think sticking to ULP was a better plan than using PULP...but that was not taking E into consideration.

Dave_H
25-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Ermm most of the BP servos down my way have ethanol in both their ULP and PULP blends.
Be careful of BP!

No they do not. I'd like to see your documented evidence for that (rather than just implying that you "think" or "reckon" someone is dodgy or mixing their fuel on purpose) to substantiate your claim.

For starters Queensland, NSW and Victoria all have random SSA and regulatory inspections to check and inspect many aspects of service station operations (such as weights and measures etc etc). Fuel quality and underground tank security are another part of it. How do I know this? I worked in the industry for many many years.

Uneducated nonsense like what you have written does nothing to further your cause. There is the odd occasion that condensation or running water entry into the underground tank may have caused some issues in the past, but those instances are rare.


Have a good day.

Dave_H.

welder
25-05-2009, 03:51 PM
Don't use that s#it. My Honda manual specifically states the warranty is void if you use Ethanol.

My Manual, page 96 , Oqygenated Fuels....

ETHANOL: ethyl or Grain alcohol; 10% by volume.
MTBE: Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether; 15% by volume.
METHANOL: methyl or wood alcohol; 5% by volume

I have a 2006 BF 225 A6 XA and these motors are made to run about anywhere in the world .

My motor # is BAGJ-1400332

Cheers

ashh
25-05-2009, 04:39 PM
No they do not. I'd like to see your documented evidence for that (rather than just implying that you "think" or "reckon" someone is dodgy or mixing their fuel on purpose) to substantiate your claim.

For starters Queensland, NSW and Victoria all have random SSA and regulatory inspections to check and inspect many aspects of service station operations (such as weights and measures etc etc). Fuel quality and underground tank security are another part of it. How do I know this? I worked in the industry for many many years.

Uneducated nonsense like what you have written does nothing to further your cause. There is the odd occasion that condensation or running water entry into the underground tank may have caused some issues in the past, but those instances are rare.


Have a good day.

Dave_H.

dave, he is correct to a degree, but he should have put 'some' at the beginning, because at some BPs you dont have a choice, its either E10, PULP, diesel or gas. Its mainly the smaller bps that haven't been upgraded with newer or extra bowsers yet :D

rowanda
25-05-2009, 08:30 PM
I think the point Dave was trying to get across was that BP DO NOT have ethanol in their PULP. Most either have E10 or ULP at a site, not both. Nothing to do with "upgrading bowsers" or extra bowsers as most tank configurations won't allow the site to sell an extra grade without a massive cost and when they won't have normal ULP by 2011 (govt regs only E10 after 2011 not normal ULP) then why upgrade tanks etc??

BaitThrower
25-05-2009, 09:25 PM
There are at least two BPs near me that have on their sign/price boards:

Unleaded + Ethanol
Premium Unleaded + Ethanol

Right on the sign boards! This is the one at Underwood Rd at Underwood and I think the one at Eight Mile Plains is also (not 100% sure) but I know the Underwood one states both their ULP and PULP has ethanol?????

rowanda
25-05-2009, 09:36 PM
i can assure you that any pulp from a BP does not have ethanol, i would say if that is correct, someone has stuffed the sign. Have a look on their website, it says not to use ethanol based fuels in boats and to use Pulp or Ultimate
Can you do me a favour and take a pic of that price board??

BaitThrower
25-05-2009, 09:47 PM
i can assure you that any pulp from a BP does not have ethanol, i would say if that is correct, someone has stuffed the sign. Have a look on their website, it says not to use ethanol based fuels in boats and to use Pulp or Ultimate
Can you do me a favour and take a pic of that price board??

Yep will do next time I go past and have the camera in the car.
It definitely says it because I have commented to the wife several times about it, and each time I go past it has the same sign.

BaitThrower
25-05-2009, 09:55 PM
Also, found this:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1491/printArticle.html

Look under "BP Offering"

Lookslike some servos in Brisbane (about half a dozen) have been trialling the Premium Unleaded with Ethanol... since 2002 according to that page. Perhaps the Underwood servo is one of those... Maybe the trial is still going?

supa29
25-05-2009, 09:55 PM
I'm confident that if you buy your fuel from BP , Caltex or Shell ...... you will not get ethonol in your ULP .
The independants ....... who knows !
Me ..... I try my hardest to only buy ULP from Shell first & BP second.
finally .... when I bought my Yammi 4 stroke I was told by the Service manager that Regular ULP was preferred & PULP would offer no advantage.

Chris


nagg i only ever used ulp in my boat from my local bp as it was on the corner so never used anything else. i got to know some of the boys ho who worked there and was told that they regularly mix e10 with ulp and pulp depending on the availability of fuel. the only fuel at this servo which never got mixed was ultimate.

have had my dirty fuel tested and was found to have 45%ethenol 20 %water and the rest was fuel, this was a random sample from my dirty tank, this was enough for me, i will never use ulp again. have also talked to owner of caloundra marine who races offshore boats and he told me pulp will not hurt 4 strokes as long as you got good water flow through the engine. pulp can run the motor hotter but not enough to do any damage but dont take my word i suggest everyone ask their own mechanic but pulp will not seperate like e10 or ulp mixed.

helpe me so i m a pulp user from now on.

supa.

rowanda
25-05-2009, 10:11 PM
all straight from the BP website

BP Unleaded 91 (http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9019279&contentId=7038502) with up to 10% renewable ethanol is our first renewable fuel blend. It has been available in Queensland since 2001. And is also available in service stations throughout New South Wales, and ACT, as we work to give more Australians, the choice of better fuels.

site locator (BP anyway) where you can find whatever fuel you are after
http://www.bp.com/iframe.do?categoryId=9020392&contentId=7037710

info on BP Premium


Unleaded 95 is seasonally blended to help cars start easily, and because of the higher energy content, gives the potential for a reduction in fuel consumption all year round.






Why use Unleaded 95?



Many imported cars, and particularly those with turbochargers, respond well to unleaded 95 petrol. These high performance cars are often designed for high octane fuel and use sensors to retard ignition when using regular petrol. This enables satisfactory operation, but at a penalty in power or economy. Unleaded 95 enables operation at maximum efficiency. It also contains a detergent additive, which keeps fuel injectors, carburetors, inlet valves and ports clean to help maintain optimum performance of your engine


also a side note on how long you can keep fuel
How long can I store my fuel?

As general guideline, fuel stored in sealed containers and under shelter will be suitable to use for about 12 months. If the container has been opened or stored outdoors, especially in the sun, storage time should be limited to 6 months. When storing fuel, also consider the suitability of the fuel for future use, for example storing summer diesel for winter use should be avoided.

tunaticer
25-05-2009, 10:20 PM
I was under the impression and belief that the service stations placed orders for thier blends and straight fuels directly from thier major suppliers. I would find it alarming to know how a service station could accurately meter x% of ethanol into its tanks and be within the guidelines set out by the authorities.

A good friend of many years managed two very larger service stations for a major brand name and often complained about being ripped off by his own brand suppliers because they deliver "hot" fuel at so many thousand litres into his underground tanks. He would dip immediately after the tanker delivered in the evening and again in the morning pre-trade hours and find the fuel had cooled and he effectively has lost several hundred litres of volume. His complaints always fell on deaf ears however. Eventually he tired of the cut throat game and being ripped off and left the industry for a better life.

Back to the point........who actually adds the ethanol to the fuel?? The outlet or the supplier at the refinery?

rowanda
25-05-2009, 10:48 PM
it is added at the distributor (depot) but no, they are not able to order a mix of X% ethanol, they can only buy either E10,ULP etc etc, the service stations play no part in mixing the fuel, the depot or refinery (if it comes straight from there) does that

supa29
26-05-2009, 07:53 AM
this is definately a problem all over the place, i know the servo operators dont have any say in what they get they just order the type but my biggest concern is if the fuel with ethonal is sitting in the under ground tanks what sort of seperation is happening in these tanks and at what point does the boat or car owne get a gut full of straight ethenol or water mix.

i have a document that im trying to scan on to this tread that state 14 day seperation of ethenol so i think this is going to be a major problem with boat owners, and by the look of this thread it is a bigger problem than i even thought so i hope this discussion has helped some people identify problems in thier boats.

supa......

bigbrian47
26-05-2009, 08:10 AM
since 1998 until recently i was using BP unleaded in my 90hp 2stroke
i always thought this contained 5% ethanol
have had no fuel related issues
now i run car/bike/boat on either premium or ultimate

lee8sec
26-05-2009, 09:25 AM
For 3 months in May 2002 not until 2009. Leigh



Also, found this:
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_1491/printArticle.html

Look under "BP Offering"

Lookslike some servos in Brisbane (about half a dozen) have been trialling the Premium Unleaded with Ethanol... since 2002 according to that page. Perhaps the Underwood servo is one of those... Maybe the trial is still going?

BaitThrower
26-05-2009, 05:53 PM
Hmm well what do ya know... Went past the BP underwood one today to take the magic pic, and they have changed their sign... Instead of it saying Premium unleaded + 10% Ethanol like it has for the last 12 months or more..... it has been changed now to say "Discount Unleaded + 10% Ethanol", which is definitely new. So who knows whats going on there.

Making me look like a liar now! Oh well :(

rowanda
26-05-2009, 06:55 PM
all good mate

Reef_fisher
26-05-2009, 08:08 PM
This has been an interesting read, I used to use PULP in my 50 hp oil burner mainly because of the previously mentioned loss of octane level/etc, but stopped after hearing and reading about possible overheat/damage. Went to ULP, funny how our local BP (Innisfail) also has a bad rap for poor fuel. Interesting that at that time BP were offering ULP,PULP and ultimate. Three levels to everyone elses two. Not sure who offers what now, I was using shell, now use Woollies(brand new servo)
I have had problems using the ULP, mainly idle/trolling, motor will just die without warning, pain to restart. Runs fine in any other use, anything above idle and skiing/towing toys. Some might say(and they have) that two strokes hate to idle and troll, but, Never had this problem with PULP. Have warning system on motor and never overheated with either fuel. I am also wondering with oil burners (carbie not etech)whether the oil would effect the overall operating temp between the two fuels.
Have been considering a change back to PULP just to see if these problems dissappear. Mind you this topic might all be a waste if ethanol free fuel is being phased out. Might all be using PULP(hopefully ethanol free) because the other stuff just raises too many questions/risks/fears.

lee8sec
18-07-2009, 07:50 PM
Further on this, was in a BP servo today(sydney) and noticed a sticker on the bowser saying "dont use + ethenol fuel in boats use 95 or 98 octane" Leigh

BM
18-07-2009, 10:10 PM
The simplest answer here is "Don't use ethanol blended fuel in a boat"......

End of story.....

BM
18-07-2009, 10:18 PM
Whoops... Double post.. Sorry

Pretzil
18-07-2009, 10:41 PM
Yeah, we never use e10 in our outboard, we just feel that being a 2 stroke mercury it is probably just looking for a reason to not work. However, I have not believed that there is much risk of the servo (we use shell) putting ethanol in the normal unleaded, does it really happen that often? Ive never had a problem

cormorant
20-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Was emailed this today



As a journalist I am often confronted with a story that, to put it bluntly, is difficult, extremely difficult, to write.

In the case of marine engines versus Ethanol-blended fuels, it becomes even more difficult than usual, primarily because it’s impossible to locate the absolute truth.

Ethanol-blended fuel (marketed here as E10), depending on who one speaks with, will not lead to any problems or it’s the most diabolical situation the marine industry will ever face!

So what is Ethanol?

Essentially, Ethanol is a volatile, flammable, colourless liquid, often referred to simply as ‘alcohol’ or ‘spirits.’

It is said to be one of the world’s oldest ‘recreational drugs’ and in many cases can simply be termed ‘booze.’

It does have other uses; Ethanol has varied uses as a solvent, as a fuel for heat and light and as a fuel for internal combustion engines.
http://www.sail-world.com/photos/std_E15%20-%20Corn%20ethanol%20producers%20are%20lobbying.jpg E15 - Corn ethanol producers are lobbying - .. .


We are informed that current Australian unleaded fuel contains up to 10 percent Ethanol, but consider this; Martin Dwyer, a skilled outboard technician of many years standing and the man in charge of warranty and training for the Yamaha Motor Co, recalls a test the company undertook some time back.

'We were told of a fuel outlet in North Queensland allegedly selling highly Ethanol-based fuel, so we obtained a quantity of it, sent it to a laboratory for testing and the answer came back – no Ethanol found,' Dwyer explained.

'I really don’t know what to make of the situation, in fact I’m not even sure that Australia produces enough Ethanol to do what the Federal Government says it will do as far as fuels are concerned,' he added.

Many people I have spoken to in the marine industry claim the industry at large 'hates' Ethanol, but some refuse to be quoted on the grounds that they are then seen to be uncaring towards the environment.

Ken Evans, Mercury Marine’s director of outboard sales and service, was not so reclusive; ‘Ethanol has the potential for disaster,' he declared.

According to Evans, fuel tanks and fuel lines are simply not ‘Ethanol resistant’.

'It’s a solvent,' he said, 'and it eats rubber and absorbs water.

'In the United States it is looming as a problem of immense proportions,' he added.

Let’s take a closer look at this ‘mysterious’ product.

In Australia, Ethanol is produced from grain and sugar cane, primarily utilising a by-product, molasses.

According to some government figures, using Ethanol reduces reliance on fossil fuels, with each 10-litres of an Ethanol-blended fuel used, fossil fuel usage is reduced by about one-litre.

Now if you’re thinking in terms of marine engines you may well be curious as to why the automotive industry does not seem to hold similar concerns?

According to one report I obtained, a typical EFI (Electronic Fuel Injected) automotive engine cannot tolerate any more than 10 percent (the figure listed as being in local unleaded fuels) Ethanol to 90 percent gasoline.

This report stated that higher Ethanol content used in a typical EFI automotive engine would require either larger-volume fuel injectors or an increase in fuel rail pressure to deliver the greater liquid volume to equal the energy content of pure gasoline.

There are a number of reasons why marine engine operators are more hesitant when it comes to using Ethanol-blended fuels than their automotive colleagues.

For starters, automotive fuel tanks are usually of much smaller content than typical boat tankage and are refilled far more often, whereas a typical boat, used only, say, at weekends may only be refilled monthly or even longer.

This can be a problem with boats usually having vented fuel system that allow moisture-laden air to circulate into the fuel tank and added to the fact that boats are usually stored in a wet environment this greatly increases the risk of water contaminating the fuel.

Generally, automotive fuel systems, including fuel filler, fuel tank, distribution lines and engine components are closed or non-vented.

Another area where the truth simply cannot be unearthed is storage of E10 fuel; some so-called ‘experts’ claim it will last 90 days, others say 12 months.

The bottom line, I guess, is the variables associated with the fuel; how old was it when purchased, what temperatures and type of container is it stored in, have any fuel stabilisers been employed?

Too many variables to perhaps give a sound answer.

From my limited research (limited in the sense that this is a very far-reaching subject), I have discovered one point that most agree on; do not use E10 fuel in boat fuel tanks marine engines older than the 1991 model year.

Apparently, E10 or Ethanol-blends caused severe damage to fibreglass fuel tanks prior to 1991, but I’m informed that since then fibreglass fuel tank manufacturers have altered the resins employed to make tanks for Ethanol resistant.

So I am told!

On its website, Yamaha Motor Co comes straight to the point; 'If at all possible, do not use E10 fuel!'

That perhaps says it all.

Yamaha lists a number of issues to follow in the event of E10 fuel being used..

The company suggests;

• Fuel tanks should be emptied and cleaned thoroughly before switching to Ethanol-blended fuels.

• If the tank can be completely drained, its internal surfaces should be mechanically cleaned to remove rust or aluminium oxides.

• In an older (pre-1991) boat, consider replacing the fuel tank.

• If the boat was built prior to 1991 and has fibreglass fuel tankage, check with the vessel’s manufacturer to determine if the tanks are Ethanol resistant.

• Install a 10-micron water separating/fuel filter between fuel tank and engine.

• Carry additional filters and change more frequently.

There does not seem to be any specific problem when it comes to modern marine engines operating efficiently with E10 fuel; the problems stem from various components such as fuel tanks and fuel lines.

A marine engine will suffer when ‘bit and pieces’ of fibreglass fuel tanks or rubberised fuel lines get drawn into it after being eaten away by Ethanol-based fuels.

Now, if you’re trailer-boat owner and you fill up at roadside ‘servos’, I figured you’d be safe using the higher octane fuel, such as BP Ultimate for example.

However, Ken Evans pointed something out to me which I was unaware of; he said fuel companies have an ‘interactive deal’ between themselves.

'The way it works,' Ken says, 'is that if say, Caltex has a major distribution depot in a specific area it delivers all the fuel to various service stations in that area, so you may be getting Caltex fuel at a BP or a Shell.

'Likewise, if BP has a major centre in a certain region it delivers fuel to the Caltex and Shell outlets in that region,' he added.

Well, after hearing that, I don’t know what to recommend to anyone.

I own a Harley-Davidson motorcycle and the manufacturer has recommended we Harley owners avoid Ethanol-blends.

Consequently I’ve been using BP Ultimate exclusively, but after what Ken Evans tells me I give up. I don’t know. I have no idea.

And that’s how this story must end, for I have no idea who can tell us the absolute, 100 percent truth.

by Bob Wonders 10:04 PM Tue 18 Aug 2009 GMT

http://www.sail-world.com/Ads/dalbora_berthing_4681.gif (http://www.sail-world.com/go_ad_banner.cfm?bid=92&srcid=10&rid=13)

TOPAZ
20-08-2009, 11:55 AM
Hi All,

Some "fuel" for thought:

The current (2009) V8 Supercars are using E85 fuel.

That is EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT Ethanol, and 15% gasoline.


They seem to go O.K.

(I know that Ethanol blends are not recpmmended for use in boats or aircraft because of the way fuel is stored in boats in particular as mentioned in several earlier posts)


Richard

cormorant
20-08-2009, 04:49 PM
Hi All,

Some "fuel" for thought:

The current (2009) V8 Supercars are using E85 fuel.

That is EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT Ethanol, and 15% gasoline.


They seem to go O.K.
(I know that Ethanol blends are not recpmmended for use in boats or aircraft because of the way fuel is stored in boats in particular as mentioned in several earlier posts)


Richard

BRasil is 100$ I thought or was that Cuba?



If I was sponsored I could eat brussel sprouts every day. Might have to be chocolate coated and a special breed but for the sake of sponsorship and advertising I'd do it. Now how much are you offering and that will buy you extra minutes orf good reviews and nothing bad said about the fuel - If you breed and supply no methanebrussels my dog would appreciate it as I can't keep blaming him.


They redesigned the motors partially to achieve that with developments.

So far removed from the real world as you say when they store it in controlled temperatures and have special batches manufactured.

DigFishing
21-08-2009, 05:04 AM
Now that is a good idea.

DigFishing
21-08-2009, 05:05 AM
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Re: E10 Fuel And The Untold Truth
We need a national database of servos that sell non-ethanol based fuel. We can call them "Boat Friendly" servos.


"Now that is a good idea !"