Kevlacat 5.2 vs Bar Crusher 560/620/640 for offshore fishing.

[Maccas]

Have been reading a bit about Bar Crusher boats and I wondered how the ride in rough seas and the stability at rest compared to the KC 5.2 as I have never been in a Bar Crusher.The idea of the water in the hull at rest sounds good for stability but does it work as well as a cat. I get seasick:( and was a real problem when I had a mono but since I have had cat I rarely get sick;D What are the differences in ride in rough conditions. Has anybody been in both or even a Surtees as they work on a similar design idea.

Cheers,

Maccas

[finding_time]

Maccas

I hope this is a flame mate!!!!

In anything under 10knots a Bar Crusher ( what ever model) will be faster in anything over that they wont get close, and the stronger the wind the bigger the gap! And yes have spent time in both!

ian

[lippa]

i got the mclay another kiwi boat of similar design (no flooding keel though)
the lil kc does sit a bit better at rest, and as ian says the windier the quicker.
coming from monnos into a cat was a very uneasy feeling, and almost made me crook first time out.
the varible deadrise hulls do perform well, as well as a kc???? there will be 45 pages of to and fro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


both great boats, simple

cheers

lippa

[Dean1]

Lippa I cant wait till the day you try to keep up with me on the way home from the banks in 20-25kt winds!!!

You will do fine on the way out coz it will only be 10kts!! ;D

[lippa]

by the time you bail the water out, pull start ya motors, have a shower and a feed man, i'll be on the trailer heading home!!!!!!!

[kokomo]

5.2 vs the 6.4 is quite a large difference.

i vote for the 6.4 in anything up to 20

[MyWay]

Bar crusher any time and any weather

but bit hard to compare KC 5.2 and mono hull plate boat too

cat to cat
plate to plate
glass to glass
concrete to concrete
wood to wood
plastic to plastic

myway

[Maccas]

Why is it so hard. They are both boats designed more for fishing offshore than anything else. It doesn't matter whether they are fibreglass or ally, it matters which does the job best. That is, get to the fishing spot and back without bashing the crap out of you and being stable enough while you are fishing that you don't spend half the time hanging over the side or worse being bashed from side to side while trying to stand up.

So which one is best?

[GBC]

Nothing of comparable size is going to be more stable at rest than your cat. I'd be tearing off the hard top, get some breeze in my face, and if I still got crook I'd give the game away.

[fly_1]

Mate, I sold my 6.0m fisher to go back to a cat. The fisher has the flooded hull, and is by far one of the best plate boats around. Certainly streets ahead of the barcrusher!! ( and yes, have fished out of one before).The reason I bought the fisher to start with, was my wife and I had grand plans to take it up the beach etc, and as we have cats in the family ( both brothers at the time had cats) thought we had every type covered. ( ie up the beach, use the fisher, out wide, take the cats etc....)
I sold it after 2yrs and only 350hrs as my back couldnt take it anymore. The answer was back to the cats. Best thing I ever did, back pain gone!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes the mono plate boats will be quicker, but only on the flat days(all 5 of them a yr!!??), but the big difference is , like most cats we can cruise at 21-22kts both ways almost everytime I go out.
It certainly has its negatives as well, 2 engines , bigger trailers etc which as we all know means more costs, but the big difference for me was ride. I would get the idea of changing to a bar crusher out of your head real quick.( and if you dont, the first time you take it, or anyother platey out in 20kts of breeze and try to cruise home at 20kts +, you will wish you had of......):D

[business class]

Stability the cat will eat the BC up every day of the week, and even though i am not a cat fan and it hurts deeply saying this:-[ , i would have to say the 5.2KC would most likely outpreform the Bar crusher through out all circumstances. the Bar crusher is not a computer cut platey so it wont have the weight or strength or ride capabilities as the likes of AMM, Sea Storm and fisher get. Bar Crusher are just a normall pull up hull with nothing fancy, Unless they have changed recently! Still taking nothing away from the Bar crusher as they build a fantastic boat but when you compare the two boats you are compareing, but IMO the KC wins even up against the 6.4 BC.

Cheers
Matty

[business class]

but the big difference is , like most cats we can cruise at 21-23kts both ways almost everytime I go out.

I understand with the whole small platey up against the BC is no comparison but......there is no way a 5.2 will do 21-23 knots in a 20knts plus wind if there is some swell and sh#t weather around...... remember he is talking about a 5.2 here, and if it was doing that sort of pace she will be hitting very hard or she will do what they do best..... DBF;D (dip,broach and flip):P ;) .

[fly_1]

If it makes you happy, make it 20kts. The point I am making, is that a plate mono will no way give you the ride a cat will. ( nor the stability at rest, or cockpit space!!)

[julian1]

why are you comparing it to a Barcrusher, is there a reason for Ali ?? what about a Fibreglass deepvee ?? Barcrushers are good, but not in the same league as the cats but hey the BC is lighter more economical cheaper to buy etc

[bennyboy]

I have 2 friends one with a 640C Bar Crusher with a F200 Yammie, the other with a 2100 Offshore Kevlacat with twin 90 Etec's. They are talking about selling one boat to get a BIG boat and keeping one of the two for smaller distances. The Kevlacat is getting the chop because the Bar Crusher outperforms it in the rough and is cheaper to maintain.

Business class I would check your facts re hull design and cutting methods

[business class]

I have 2 friends one with a 640C Bar Crusher with a F200 Yammie, the other with a 2100 Offshore Kevlacat with twin 90 Etec's. They are talking about selling one boat to get a BIG boat and keeping one of the two for smaller distances. The Kevlacat is getting the chop because the Bar Crusher outperforms it in the rough and is cheaper to maintain.

Business class I would check your facts re hull design and cutting methods

Ok for starters i am not a cat lover thats for sure so lets get this one straight first......... But if a 2100 KC doesn't outpreform a 640BC in rough conditions:o then thats really poor for the KC owners as Bar Crushers i believe are not the best ride IMO.and there design for a flooding keel does not help as much as what they go on about in stability either, especially if you are comparing it to a multi hull..... I have been in a 6.4BC but not a 2100 Kevla. Only the 5.2 and 2400 Offshore. and IMO the 5.2 KC road better then the 6.4 BC so don't even ask me to compare the 2400 with it (which i believe the 2400 offshore is actually a 6.6m boat too).

Yes the BC is cheaper to maintain which i believe is why the KC is going, but not becasue of ride surely, but if so then the 2100 must be a pig to ride in compared to the others which is a possibility!!!!!! HAve you been in the 2400 or the 5.2 and if so do you think the 6.4 rides better then these?? What big boat are they looking at going to?

[MyWay]

Have been reading a bit about Bar Crusher boats and I wondered how the ride in rough seas and the stability at rest compared to the KC 5.2 as I have never been in a Bar Crusher.The idea of the water in the hull at rest sounds good for stability but does it work as well as a cat. I get seasick:( and was a real problem when I had a mono but since I have had cat I rarely get sick;D What are the differences in ride in rough conditions. Has anybody been in both or even a Surtees as they work on a similar design idea.

Cheers,

Maccas

Behind good horse it is always big dust ;D

KC are good boats and would like if i could go to spot in KC but fish and sleep out of any another boat like BC, riptide, fisher mustang etc,etc but i do prefer to own bar crusher , rip tide , fisher, stabicraft,
mustang ,etc


myway

[mirage]

but the big difference is , like most cats we can cruise at 21-23kts both ways almost everytime I go out.

I understand with the whole small platey up against the BC is no comparison but......there is no way a 5.2 will do 21-23 knots in a 20knts plus wind if there is some swell and sh#t weather around...... remember he is talking about a 5.2 here, and if it was doing that sort of pace she will be hitting very hard or she will do what they do best..... DBF;D (dip,broach and flip):P ;) .


Trust me Business C, I've been out in Fly_1's KC many times coming home from fishing comps in 25kt plus winds and he still drives it hard at around 22kts. Yes, my bourbon and coke can keeps filling up with salt water. Yes, he is concentrating 110% to drive the boat. Yes, I keep telling him the donks are water cooled not air cooled but I sure wouldn't want to be doing it in his old Fisher or a BC.

[Maccas]

Hey GBC,

I only said that I would like to know what others thought of Bar Crusher boats as I have no experience in them. I love my KC;D and would not sell it until I wanted to downsize as well as having something cheaper to run. But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I reckon the advantages of the KC5.2 far outweigh the disadvantages for me at this stage especially the stability which as I said has cut my seasickness down to only the odd time and it is usually a big swell (3m+) that causes the problem. I know I go out in my cat when I wouldn't bother if I had a mono and wondered if anything has changed since I bought my first cat 21 years ago.

So apart from barcrusher is there anything mono, glass or ally that comes close to a KC 5.2 for ride and stability. Say up to 6.5m mono?

Cheerrs,

Maccas

[business class]

Behind good horse it is always big dust ;D

KC are good boats and would like if i could go to spot in KC but fish and sleep out of any another boat like BC, riptide, fisher mustang etc,etc but i do prefer to own bar crusher , rip tide , fisher, stabicraft,
mustang ,etc


myway

Stabi Craft i can understand but MUSTANG... come on!!:o !!!!! i want what you are on:P .

[business class]

Hey GBC,

I only said that I would like to know what others thought of Bar Crusher boats as I have no experience in them. I love my KC;D and would not sell it until I wanted to downsize as well as having something cheaper to run. But that's not going to happen anytime soon.

I reckon the advantages of the KC5.2 far outweigh the disadvantages for me at this stage especially the stability which as I said has cut my seasickness down to only the odd time and it is usually a big swell (3m+) that causes the problem. I know I go out in my cat when I wouldn't bother if I had a mono and wondered if anything has changed since I bought my first cat 21 years ago.

So apart from barcrusher is there anything mono, glass or ally that comes close to a KC 5.2 for ride and stability. Say up to 6.5m mono?

Cheerrs,

Maccas


Eden craft 6m offshore for ride is my pick for you in mono, and will do everything you need it to and more. with a 225 on the back she will go like the clappers also. But with stability the only thing better then or equal to a cat is a Hydrofield but that is a Glass multihull also....

[business class]

Trust me Business C, I've been out in Fly_1's KC many times coming home from fishing comps in 25kt plus winds and he still drives it hard at around 22kts. Yes, my bourbon and coke can keeps filling up with salt water. Yes, he is concentrating 110% to drive the boat. Yes, I keep telling him the donks are water cooled not air cooled but I sure wouldn't want to be doing it in his old Fisher or a BC.

i agree 100 Percent with the KC rideing better then the fisher or BC...... and i believe you also with doing that, but i just ment it aint a matter of push the throttle and off we go doing 25knts in rubbish weather, it just won't happen!!!

[fly_1]

Like any boat, both have pro's and con's, but with someone that has half an idea on how to get the best out of their cat at the wheel, the cat will kill the bcrusher everytime.

[CCDrifter]

Just for my 2 cents worth.
I just upgraded from my 6.25 cruisecraft to a 2400 KC. At the moment still fully coming to terms with Cat driving. But......... only had the boat 3 weeks and I think I am converted to Cats. The ride is unreel in the ocean and I am wondering what to do with all the extra deck space (thinking about a pool table as it is so stable).
And so with that I will leave the mono/cat debate to go on for another decade or two.

Nathan

[business class]

Just for my 2 cents worth.
I just upgraded from my 6.25 cruisecraft to a 2400 KC. At the moment still fully coming to terms with Cat driving. But......... only had the boat 3 weeks and I think I am converted to Cats. The ride is unreel in the ocean and I am wondering what to do with all the extra deck space (thinking about a pool table as it is so stable).
And so with that I will leave the mono/cat debate to go on for another decade or two.

Nathan

You sure it is called an upgrade there mate;) :P. Come on your making me :sick2: with these coments. Can't wait till we go away mate so we can see who's boat will stand out from the rest and bye the sound of it the cat will be right up there hey.:-X ... I am still be-wildered why they call them cats........... aren't they ment to land on there feet when in the air and not on the cabin;) :P ;D

Cheers
Matty

[CCDrifter]

I did not even mention that a certain mono hull had to turn around on KC's first run south as it was to ruff.
I heard that there is a problem with the new Honda for you.:o Have you got any paddles;D

[business class]

I did not even mention that a certain mono hull had to turn around on KC's first run south as it was to ruff.
I heard that there is a problem with the new Honda for you.:o Have you got any paddles;D

What problem is that?????

[business class]

and don't say cause its not a zuke..... been there done that....... moveing on to bigger and better things

[GBC]

Thanks for asking me maccas - but I feel in this thread the honour is dubious::)

6.5m is a pretty big mono and sure there are plenty out there that will do what you want.

I have tried a barcrusher before - but it was the first series and pretty woeful.

All depends on how much you have to spend?

Genuine 3m swell in anything that planes is going to send anyone predispositioned to the odd chuck, over ther edge.

Good luck.

[finding_time]

i agree 100 Percent with the KC rideing better then the fisher or BC...... and i believe you also with doing that, but i just ment it aint a matter of push the throttle and off we go doing 25knts in rubbish weather, it just won't happen!!!


Matty

Mate it does happen mate! NO BS.;) Regardless of weather i drive my kc at 4800 rpm, it's the boats sweet spot any slower and it sits to low in the water and rides like a dog! You have to get them up and moving!! I 've had a guy who owns 680 fisher ( the original burt orange one) come for a trip with me and state that he could not keep up with me in this crap sea, and he drives his boat hard!! I think it's part of the secrects of cats that you need to keep them going fast so they sit high and ride soft! When you think you should be backing off because it's hitting hard often giving it more throttle helps the ride alot!;) It does scare the crew though!!!;D ;D but after a few trips they get used to it!

[business class]

Matty

Mate it does happen mate! NO BS.;) Regardless of weather i drive my kc at 4800 rpm, it's the boats sweet spot any slower and it sits to low in the water and rides like a dog! You have to get them up and moving!! I 've had a guy who owns 680 fisher ( the original burt orange one) come for a trip with me and state that he could not keep up with me in this crap sea, and he drives his boat hard!! I think it's part of the secrects of cats that you need to keep them going fast so they sit high and ride soft! When you think you should be backing off because it's hitting hard often giving it more throttle helps the ride alot!;) It does scare the crew though!!!;D ;D but after a few trips they get used to it!]

Hey Mate i understand what your saying, but they still have to drive the boat to the conditions. Same with our own Boat (Hydrofield) if your not giving it some and driving it hard or if she is underpowered she rides like a pig....... I am not getting into the whole bagging of the cats at any point (well not in this arguement anyway;) ) but the skipper makes the ride of the boat good or bad.......

Cheers
Matty

[MyWay]

Ian is one of far the best cat driver i have bin with, but his is very hopeless with mono hulls :P
I can tall i have bin with few guys on 2400 3000 some of them are bad i almost jump in water to swim back .Some are pretty good but, I can say Ian is one far the best driver for cats and did not scare me one bit .

mono hulls driver are all pretty much same. Only few guys out there which have not clue how to drive boat .

and bar crusher
is the boat more you go out and drive differently every time soon you will get more and more conftable .
It is kind of boat you can not just jump in and go out there, and say it is shit dog .
I can ensure you after few times you will be surprise how that boat is good and what you can do ,
It stand up for all thay saying about .

cheers

myway

[Noelm]

I need a translator for that one myway!

[MyWay]

I need a translator for that one myway!
mate if is any spelling mistake please fix it for me :) and repost .
I personally believe it is not bad for someone like me. I trying my the best .
just 13 years ago i could not speak or read at all.

myway

[FNQCairns]

All? most of the long boats will ride better than the bar crusher as will lots of the older traditional moderate to deep V non variable deadrise hulls. Once VD becomes part of the hull design they get bumpy, apples to apples but do use less power, have more internal room and feel sportier.

cheers fnq

[finding_time]

mate if is any spelling mistake please fix it for me :) and repost .
I personally believe it is not bad for someone like me. I trying my the best .
just 13 years ago i could not speak or read at all.

myway

Myway
Your typing is easy to read mate!;) Specially if you read it with a accent!!!!;D ;D 8-) 8-)

Ian

[ozbee]

there's places that suit one more than the other there's angles that one will outperform the other i am running out of popcorn.

[Lovey80]

Maccas, do it mate you'll love the Barcrusher!!! When you decide to sell PM me the details of your boat as I want first test drive :D.

Cheers

Chris

[insideout]

have owned a 2400 kc and a 5.6 bc centre console, and never been in a 5.2 kc(still waiting for a invite....anybody??)
in the interests of fairness, im not going to compare the 2400 kc to the bc 5.6, but i will tell you MY OWN thoughts on the barcrusher.
1- easy to launch by yourself, and takes 20 min to clean with a gurni, fishguts and all.
2- 150 ltr fuel tank,big range with 115 yammi 4 stroker
3-drive on/off easytow trailer
4- did not like the tinted windscreen, in mornings/ afternoons its hard to see
anybody else
5- it rode reasonably well, even moreso with more people in it.
6- with no plaining strakes it did not bang(as much) like other plateys Ive owned(big names)dont ask
7-was stable at rest, even with 2x 120+kg men moving around alot.
8- wet as a shag, did i say wet? from 12knots winds onward (allsides)while moving
9- not a speed machine, 4000rpm = 36kph, 5000rpm=45kph etc smooth water 1 person(some may find this fast, personally i like to go where im getting to reasonably quick weather permiting)

All in all i found it to be very capable of handling most things i threw at it,and the fuel economy was good and it was a tough boat.Towing was a breeze and launch/retrieval easy for 1 person.Ride was ok for plate mono. Remember my thoughts only....

All that aside, im buying another cat.....

[Daamu]

Just a thought.
Why do they even bother investing millions into designing and producing mono's if the kc is the best boat in the world.
Something to think about.

[insideout]

Just a thought.
Why do they even bother investing millions into designing and producing mono's if the kc is the best boat in the world.
Something to think about.

thought about it, kc is not the best boat in the world

[Teabag73]

Just a thought.
Why do they even bother investing millions into designing and producing mono's if the kc is the best boat in the world.
Something to think about.

Because there is no such thing as the perfect boat or car or anything. Every boat has it's good points and bad ones with some having better functionality for certain purposes than others. To think that the KC is the best boat is crazy IMO. They are very, very good for what they where designed for but still have there flaws like any boat......There is a place for mono hulled boats thats for sure.......:)

[stinky-stabi]

I need a translator for that one myway!


me too .lololol... might be serbian;D.....pmsl

[jekylandhyde]

No-ones mentioned trolling.....would rather be in mono's generally while trolling; esp. if ther is a bit of chop and swell . Can't stand the hull slap in cats when trolling . I had a 7 mtre cat and have a mono now. No comparison for quiet smooth effortless trolling. Plus the cats leave lots of dirty water behind, and then there's a prop on each corner just waiting to take out that billfish or mackeral.
There is no such thing as the perfect boat......I haven't been in a barcrusher, they all have their good and bad points. But after 2 cats I'm back to a mono and much happier.
It all comes down to your particular use. If I was just bottom fishing then i would probably have kept my last cat.

[finding_time]

No-ones mentioned trolling.....would rather be in mono's generally while trolling; esp. if ther is a bit of chop and swell . Can't stand the hull slap in cats when trolling . I had a 7 mtre cat and have a mono now. No comparison for quiet smooth effortless trolling. Plus the cats leave lots of dirty water behind, and then there's a prop on each corner just waiting to take out that billfish or mackeral.
There is no such thing as the perfect boat......I haven't been in a barcrusher, they all have their good and bad points. But after 2 cats I'm back to a mono and much happier.
It all comes down to your particular use. If I was just bottom fishing then i would probably have kept my last cat.

Yep agree with the tunnel slap it can be annoying but this is solved with trolling angles if you really want to! But what about when the fish is HOOKED!!;) How good is it being able to back up on a fish and have complete controll of the boat.:D You can fly back at a retreating billy very quickly if you want if it goes to the port you spin and head port likewise if it heads the other way and visually it's great to have the fight right at the stern of your boat;)

As for the dirty water, well there are plenty of cats trolling up good fish and i have never felt that the wash out the back was a disadvantage but i guess that depends on how you run your spread! I reckon my results against other trailer boats have always been great and both Trent ( fly1) and his brother Heath have a great records also so wash cannot be an issue!

Ian

[fly_1]

Agreed. Yes trolling into chop is a pain in the backside, ( and it spills the drinks), but if you just angle off alittle, its no dramas. As far as the dirty water goes, thats just rubbish. Any mono with 2 engines will put out just as much wash, and after all, as we havent got the big loud diesel drum that vibrates through the water like the big boats have, i actually want a bit of wash, as my boat is actually the best teaser I have!!!! Throw in a few daisy chains or witchdoctor type teasers to catch and reflect the light around, and you have a great fish raising machine.
Having the engines in the corners makes moving the boat around very easy, and although I have been close a few times, I have never lost a fish due to the motors getting in the rode. If you have a decent driver on the wheel, and a crew who knows whats going on, you should be able to use them to your advantage.
Trent

[Smithy]

Trent's brother's boat, Tanjian a 5.2KC is actually the leading boat in the SCGFC this year. 2nd placed boat is a 5m South African imported thing with twin Suzuki 4 bangers and then in third place is a 40' White Cap with twin 500 Cummins'. Pretty good effort by the trailerboat guys as the game boat has fished as many if not more days with a full crew every time. For many years Fred Temminck's own personal 7.2m KC used to win the champion boat of the SCGFC and champion boat of Australia with his anglers winning the Sir Garrick Agnew Trophy for most billfish tagged by an Australian Angler in a fishing year. If it wasn't him, it was Damon Olsen's 7.2KC.

[Mac1952]

No matter what anyone says: Give me a Cat any day for stability, ride and SAFETY!!

[business class]

No matter what anyone says: Give me a Cat any day for stability, ride and SAFETY!!

:o What a big comment that is!

see the only bad thing with cats are the owners;) , because you guys are so one eyed its not funny::) . if you are not an expert in driving cats and are only new to it, it is so easy for them to roll over in the smallest of swell, (now don't say thats safe) and don't say no they wont either because you know they can and will! (hense all the cat roll overs;) :P ) because untill you learn how to drive them properly they can be a pig.

some of you guys are as bad as E-tec owners (sorry but its true) if its not one or the other there no good.
Well you tell me what boat there is apart from a cat that needs so much trim with everything you do, even turning for crying out loud, and also you need at least 3 to 6 months of driving lessons, maybe more before you know your own boat;) . now how good is that:P .

Now to be honest i don't hate cats at all, as much as it looks like i do, i don't. I am aware they are a great ride and a great boat don't get me wrong, but only ONCE YOU KNOW HOW TO DRIVE THEM, there not the only decent boat out there either and most cat owners need to see this. Eg. for the comment i quote# give me a cat any day for bla bla bla#, please explain what can the cat do that other multi hulls can't, except roll:P ;D . I own a Hydrofield tri hull and its an awesome ride, stability is second to none and a very safe boat to be in, but in saying that you won't see me beating my chest to say there the best boat bar none. Is there a reason for this as i am confused.


Cheers
Matty

[Noelm]

can you show me a mono that does not benefit from trim tabs???? no cat ever needed them, because you can use the trim properly, and no, you don't need to be an offshore racer to get benefits from a cat, you can just sit back and cruise if you like, no worries, not too sure I fully agree with what you are saying about "all the cat rollovers" can you supply me with some cold hard evidence of this "feature" and the next mono to flip/roll/swamp will not be the last either! now lets get things straight here, I have owned Monos and Cats for more years than most on here, and I still do own a Cat and a Mono (two actually) and I know which one I would prefer to keep if I was only alowed one Boat!!!

[finding_time]

Matty

Come on mate, get real! There are plenty of people who drive cats without any experience and how many roll overs are there? Very few is the answer! and if you take Dominators out of the equation there are very very very few! Mate as Noel said all boats need trim to perform well but plenty of cats and mono's are driven without it evey weekend without disaster!

yes cats have lean on turns and if i was a river or esturay fisherman i wouldn't own one , i would be in a plate mono for sure, like wise if i was a dam fisho i would own a Skeeter or similar. But i choose to fish mainly the oceans and want a trailerable boat and there isn't another boat out there that's 5.2m long runs lowish economical HP (120) that has all the features of my cat. These are twin motors with twin fuel and electric systems, self draining , sealed floor in many sections ( 9 in each hull), lock up cabin , well under 2 tonne on the trailer and rides very very well. Can you name a boat of similar size that can match that? Didn't think so!

Of coures boats have good and bad points and one boat cannot have everything and be suitable for every application but some have more benifits than others doing certain tasks! You have to weigh up you requirements and pic the right boat for the right purpose, and everyone requirements WILL be differant!

[business class]

[quote=finding_time;1018951]Matty

Come on mate, get real! There are plenty of people who drive cats without any experience and how many roll overs are there? Very few is the answer! and if you take Dominators out of the equation there are very very very few! Mate as Noel said all boats need trim to perform well but plenty of cats and mono's are driven without it evey weekend without disaster!

yes cats have lean on turns and if i was a river or esturay fisherman i wouldn't own one , i would be in a plate mono for sure, like wise if i was a dam fisho i would own a Skeeter or similar. But i choose to fish mainly the oceans and want a trailerable boat and there isn't another boat out there that's 5.2m long runs lowish economical HP (120) that has all the features of my cat. These are twin motors with twin fuel and electric systems, self draining , sealed floor in many sections ( 9 in each hull), lock up cabin , well under 2 tonne on the trailer and rides very very well. Can you name a boat of similar size that can match that? Didn't think so!


Ok! first off. I was off the whole 5.2 size boat, we have established they are good for there size for a comparason, though the Hydrofield is my answer to match the 5.2 for you.

2nd Yes trim tabs help with mono's in pulling the nose down when she gets ruff but are not a must where trim in cats are. You can't possibly say that you can jump in and drive a cat with out experence and the ride be awesome as when ever someone bags the ride off the cat everyone who owns one is quick to jump out and say its the driver. am i write or wrong?. KC salesman won't even sell you a cat with out showing you how to drive one first. (noelm) and for hard evidence there was a cat roll over off tweed last year in a near perfect day and people from this site witnessed it, how much harder evidence do you need. What my point was, is that i agree they are a good boat, BUT they are not the only boat to have for offshore is what i am saying!

[Dean1]

Hey Matty,

yeah mate you do constantly make remarks about cats 'tipping over'! I know of about 3 or 4 dominators, a few sharkcats when doing things that NO boat should be doing and thats about it?!

Ive never heard of a Kevlacat tipping over?? Im not saying Kevlacats are better than sharkcats I love them both, Id love a 2700 noosacat one day.

And hell I dont think they are that hard to drive like people say, my first cat I owned I was kicking arse in that beast straight up doing things I never would have thought about doing in some of my preowned monos!

I think it just takes a while to get the 'most' out of them and wring every little bit of awsomness of out of them, and im sure us catowners know that feeling when youv got 'the trim right' 'the speed right' and youv got a huge grin on your face like a chesear cat coz your carving up the sea like no tommorow!! ;D ;D

Yeah sure theres been a few times when ive thought 'gee that felt like I was up one one hull for too long and I just washed off my gunnel' but really it takes alot more than what you think to tip one of the biggirls over.

Cats for me all day ;) 8-)

[Dean1]

Every mono with an outboard motor trims the motor in or out too get it too perform properly! Right?? Or it would be a dog too!! We just have 2 motors too trim in or out!? Whats the difference? :-/ Hell some monos need foils on the legs to perform, im sure cats dont!

Coz we trim our motors too suit seas is not a problem here I dont get why there is talk of it. I have fun trimming in seas too experience different reactions dont all boatowners feel the same? :-/

[Dean1]

[quote=finding_time;1018951]Matty

Come on mate, get real! There are plenty of people who drive cats without any experience and how many roll overs are there? Very few is the answer! and if you take Dominators out of the equation there are very very very few! Mate as Noel said all boats need trim to perform well but plenty of cats and mono's are driven without it evey weekend without disaster!

yes cats have lean on turns and if i was a river or esturay fisherman i wouldn't own one , i would be in a plate mono for sure, like wise if i was a dam fisho i would own a Skeeter or similar. But i choose to fish mainly the oceans and want a trailerable boat and there isn't another boat out there that's 5.2m long runs lowish economical HP (120) that has all the features of my cat. These are twin motors with twin fuel and electric systems, self draining , sealed floor in many sections ( 9 in each hull), lock up cabin , well under 2 tonne on the trailer and rides very very well. Can you name a boat of similar size that can match that? Didn't think so!


Ok! first off. I was off the whole 5.2 size boat, we have established they are good for there size for a comparason, though the Hydrofield is my answer to match the 5.2 for you.

2nd Yes trim tabs help with mono's in pulling the nose down when she gets ruff but are not a must where trim in cats are. You can't possibly say that you can jump in and drive a cat with out experence and the ride be awesome as when ever someone bags the ride off the cat everyone who owns one is quick to jump out and say its the driver. am i write or wrong?. KC salesman won't even sell you a cat with out showing you how to drive one first. (noelm) and for hard evidence there was a cat roll over off tweed last year in a near perfect day and people from this site witnessed it, how much harder evidence do you need. What my point was, is that i agree they are a good boat, BUT they are not the only boat to have for offshore is what i am saying! And Boatboy has already reassured us that a 5.2 KC will do everything better than a 5.2 Hydro will do he's owned both. A 5.2 Hydro hasnt got the safety of twim motors/ fuel systems/ batterys etc does it? And how big is the deck on those hydro's? To much hydro I think ;D :o

[finding_time]

[quote=business class;1019012
. (noelm) and for hard evidence there was a cat roll over off tweed last year in a near perfect day and people from this site witnessed it, how much harder evidence do you need.![/quote]


Matty

Mate that cat that rolled over on a "calm day" got to close to fido's reef and was hit by a BREAKING SWELL!!! You know and i know that any boat that put itself in that area was stuffed regardless of MONO , CAT , TRI really mate i fail to see how this is relevent to the discussion would you drive your boat in that area when there is a big ground swell? ::)

[Noelm]

OK then, so that's one! hardly "all" I would be thinking, and it seems even that one was dubious.

[fly_1]

Have fished many times out of a 18ft hydrofield. Family had one many years ago.It was/is a good boat, but it to had its down falls(like all boats!!!!) Hydrofields flip over too!! Have seen it happen, and it was driven by a very experienced cat driver ( as well as many other boats), but they too will flip ( as will ANY boat if in the wrong place etc...)
So to keep going on about cats rolling etc, is just rubbish.
By the way, the old hydrofield did have twin motors, 2 tanks, batteries etc, had lots of room, but we went back to cats as they suited our needs better.

[boatboy50]

[quote=business class;1019012] And Boatboy has already reassured us that a 5.2 KC will do everything better than a 5.2 Hydro will do he's owned both. A 5.2 Hydro hasnt got the safety of twim motors/ fuel systems/ batterys etc does it? And how big is the deck on those hydro's? To much hydro I think ;D :o

Hey Dean,

I saw BC's post early this morning, but left it alone because there's no point in flogging a dead horse. I took it that he was trying to take the piss as we've had this argument before.

The one that rolled at Fidos was a 4.9m Markham Whaler. It was stacked up against breaking water. I'd love to know what 6m mono or Hydrofield would have handled that and stayed sunny side up? Truth be known it may have even rolled a 5.2 KC had it been there. It's common sense that prevailed in that situation.

I have also seen another 4.9 MW flip end over when overtaking a big Riv wash in the Broadwater. They lack flotation in the bows, and can broach badly.

The 7.0 Dominator obviously has a problem, so shouldn't be entered into this argument.

Now what was the initial post about again?

Regards

Darren

[Luke G]

Who cares?

[business class]

[quote=business class;1019012] And Boatboy has already reassured us that a 5.2 KC will do everything better than a 5.2 Hydro will do he's owned both. A 5.2 Hydro hasnt got the safety of twim motors/ fuel systems/ batterys etc does it? And how big is the deck on those hydro's? To much hydro I think ;D :o

Argh Dean i was wondering when you will comment.

The deck in the 5.6 Hydro which you are referring to is 2.6 meters long and a beam of 2.5m wide;) (is that a small deck hey;) ) plus you can run twin engines no problem with twin tanks also, and Dean Twin batteries i think was a typeing error as that comment was stupid as my 12 tinnie could have them.;) :P .
Now with this whole triming thing, i honestly haven't driving a 5.2KC so i can't comment but cats are a lot harder to learn how to drive then normall boat correct? EG. mono's, tri's. Yes i understand all boats need triming but none need it as much as a Kevla cat EG. salesman have to take owners out to see and show them what to do before they take delivery. True or false? ;D now they would not do this if there was no concern! Plus what other boat needs to have one engine trim in and one out when turning for more reasons then one:o . Also in a following sea, the trim in a cat is a must as the sponson can dig in and broach if not drivin right:-X :o , as i experenced this in a 2400 offshore:-[ (novice driver). For the record is was hardly a big breaking wave that hit that boat off fidos either.

If you look at my first post i actually said the 5.2 KC were the choice out of the 3 boats picked, how we got to this was Cat owners beating there chest saying there the best and safest boat bar none, when its a false call:o so i commented on such a stupid comment;D , and It always ends up a tri VS Cat debate some how;D . And Ian yes i do and still will drive my boat through that area with big ground swell as the fish love it, and so will a few of the local boys, just done with timing and care. But yes to your question.

[Noelm]

no, the agent/salesman does not need to take the new owner for a drive to "teach" them how to drive, you can just set and forget if you like, and I can never ever remember altering trim to do a turn, but I guess you could if you wanted to! there is no reason to do anything different in a cat than a mono if you don't want to, but to get the very best out of them, some experience will be of great benefit, but I can assure you, there is heaps of cat "cruisers" out there who simply lower the motor, start up and drive off!

[business class]

no, the agent/salesman does not need to take the new owner for a drive to "teach" them how to drive, you can just set and forget if you like, and I can never ever remember altering trim to do a turn, but I guess you could if you wanted to! there is no reason to do anything different in a cat than a mono if you don't want to, but to get the very best out of them, some experience will be of great benefit, but I can assure you, there is heaps of cat "cruisers" out there who simply lower the motor, start up and drive off!

your still beating around the bush and choosing words to suit your arguement;) at the end of the day Yes they do need to be shown how to drive the cat, a guy i know just took delivery of a 2400 offshore and as a new owner he said there is a nack in driving them and using the trim is crucial, but he loves the ride but still says you need to learn how to drive them and its not a matter of hitting the throttle and sitting back:o he said they NEED TO BE DRIVEN, so i guess buy your comments he must be a lie r then hey;) .

[legsy11]

your still beating around the bush and choosing words to suit your arguement;) at the end of the day Yes they do need to be shown how to drive the cat, a guy i know just took delivery of a 2400 offshore and as a new owner he said there is a nack in driving them and using the trim is crucial, but he loves the ride but still says you need to learn how to drive them and its not a matter of hitting the throttle and sitting back:o he said they NEED TO BE DRIVEN, so i guess buy your comments he must be a lie r then hey;) .

im not saying this guy is a liar but the first cat i drove was a 2300 noosacat and i just clicked her into gear and powered on.i knew nothing bout trim or anyting but i managed to cruise out to cal wide and back to spinnaker no probs at all.before that day the only other boat i had driven was a 4.5 quinnie.i have altered the way i drive since then for the purposes of fuel and ride [ect]but isnt that what you do with anyboat.

[siegfried]

Why waste money on a cat at all, if you can afford to buy and run one with 2 donks and all the $hit just go out and buy a decent boat like a ec233 ,6m haines etc

[stinky-stabi]

Matty

Come on mate, get real! There are plenty of people who drive cats without any experience and how many roll overs are there? Very few is the answer! and if you take Dominators out of the equation there are very very very few! Mate as Noel said all boats need trim to perform well but plenty of cats and mono's are driven without it evey weekend without disaster!

yes cats have lean on turns and if i was a river or esturay fisherman i wouldn't own one , i would be in a plate mono for sure, like wise if i was a dam fisho i would own a Skeeter or similar. But i choose to fish mainly the oceans and want a trailerable boat and there isn't another boat out there that's 5.2m long runs lowish economical HP (120) that has all the features of my cat. These are twin motors with twin fuel and electric systems, self draining , sealed floor in many sections ( 9 in each hull), lock up cabin , well under 2 tonne on the trailer and rides very very well. Can you name a boat of similar size that can match that? Didn't thin

Of coures boats have good and bad points and one boat cannot have everything and be suitable for every application but some have more benifits than others doing certain tasks! You have to weigh up you requirements and pic the right boat for the right purpose, and everyone requirements WILL be differant!


i can a 509 stabi.....::)

[finding_time]

And how is the lock up cab on a 509 stabi! I've never seen that model::)

[Smithy]

On all the rollover talk, did anyone hear if a 760 HH Patriot went over in the gutter at Waddy through the week?

[stinky-stabi]

And how is the lock up cab on a 509 stabi! I've never seen that model::)

give me time an i will make one .lolololololol.
well you only griped on the cabin so ?????
i mustnt be two far off the mark then.pmsl

[finding_time]

give me time an i will make one .lolololololol.
well you only griped on the cabin so ?????
i mustnt be two far off the mark then.pmsl
Well i was going to mention the lack of twin motors and fuel tanks and also the much poorer ride lack of deck space but i couldn't be bothered at the time;)

[stinky-stabi]

And how is the lock up cab on a 509 stabi! I've never seen that model::)

just had a look at m8s 5.2 an i wouldnt call that a cabin more like a broom closet:D

[Noelm]

to answer Smithy, I guess "no"

[GBC]

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=46512&d=1243078542

Nah, JG was just testing the scuppers out. A cat would have been in REAL trouble.::)

[Smithy]

Thanks for that. Found the post. Was in Going Fishing if anyone else was wondering.

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?p=1021259&posted=1#post1021259

[Dean1]

just had a look at m8s 5.2 an i wouldnt call that a cabin more like a broom closet:D One of my 135kg mates doesnt think so. He snores his head off in there in for hrs on end, even when its rough as guts offshore. If you look at the cab closely youll discover a gap down each side( an extra 1m+) which allows your legs too stretch right out. The cab is fine for 2 large adults ;)

[lippa]

shit dean you'd be a keen man to sleep with big red (daryl) up the front snorin and farting, defiantly room for one if he's in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dean1]

shit dean you'd be a keen man to sleep with big red (daryl) up the front snorin and farting, defiantly room for one if he's in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha ha yeah not wrong mate!! Big Pete Sharock I was reffering to. He lets em rip too tho!!

[supa29]

Every mono with an outboard motor trims the motor in or out too get it too perform properly! Right?? Or it would be a dog too!! We just have 2 motors too trim in or out!? Whats the difference? :-/ Hell some monos need foils on the legs to perform, im sure cats dont!

Coz we trim our motors too suit seas is not a problem here I dont get why there is talk of it. I have fun trimming in seas too experience different reactions dont all boatowners feel the same? :-/


Dean Dean Dean like most cat owners you fail to see the big picture here, it really doesnt matter what boat you got or how expensive it is or how it rides, its what comes over the side.

you can have your kc and i do agree the ride is great and the deck is great but i dont have trims on mine and i find my allycraft 6.5 centre consul with 2 black girls on the back pod is a stable as any cat under power. i admit punshing into 25knots i dont think most boats would be stable and you shouldnt be out there.

i think you cat owners have little man syndrome, got to have the best boat to make up for your lack of fishing ability and i know thats tue with you deano, maybe you should have left the 200 or so litres of water in the cat then you had an excuse why you couldnt catch s..t,

kel................... i will fish in a bath tub with oars and still get more than you.;D ;D ;D ;D