Crocs, sharing the water

[boys play]

Does anyone have any theories or factual knowledge as to how far upstream in fresh water a salty will travel/habitate. It would be interesting to know if there is a relative safety margin...I speak from fear as I am heading up to croc country soon, and don't relish the prospect of sharing a small tinny with an agro salty.
cheers
Ian

[Whitto]

Ian.....If you are entering known Croc country.....forget about a safety margin you are entering their domain.....Absolute safety at all times otherwise you will not be returning to enjoy another fishing trip...They will be aware of your presence before you do.....Do not consider any other alternative what so ever........Enjoy you forth coming trip mate

[wheezer]

they are not called saltwater crocodiles, but estuarine crocodiles...they inhabit both fresh and salt, and in fact need to spend some time in the fresh, they cannot tolerate salt water 100% of the time. recently a young girl was taken in the NT, swiming in a small freshwater waterhole far from where you'd think there'd be one...especially in times of flood they will travel far inland. the river systems of lakefield NP, a popular destination in the lower cape, is packed full of big swamp dogs. so yea, best to practise absolute safety at all times. they are the masters of stealth...you are in their domain, they are the apex predator

[STUIE63]

I have seen them approximately 200km upstream from saltwater
Stuie

[Luc]

Literature often states that they will go as far upstream as possible until stopped by an 'impassable barrier' usually a high enough waterfall with no easy way round.

Luc

[boys play]

Interesting comments..thanks chaps. I wouldn't have thought they would travel so far from the estuaries. Needless to say caution will be paramount.
I have read some stuff on crocs which would suggest they head to sea more often than upstream...usually after an unsuccessful battle for territory. I will be happy not to test the theory.

[Flex]

Be very careful of freshwater lagoons,swamps. SPecially ones in low lying country crocs can get into during floods. Alot of people get their fresh water from these and think they're safe cause its fresh.. not the case

[Bros]

.I speak from fear as I am heading up to croc country soon, and don't relish the prospect of sharing a small tinny with an agro salty.

For a start they are not agro except in breeding season when they can get a bit more threatning. During winter they are a little less active as they have to absorb more energy from the sun so they are out of the water more during the day. As for a small tinnie 3.5m is the smallest absoutely no canoe's. When you are fishing don't just lay down across the motor for a rest keep active in the boat and don't fish at night as you are asking for trouble.
As for Estaurine crocs in fresh water they have been seen years ago in Lawn Hill gorge but if there are seen there now they would be quickly given a lead sandwich. The Burdekin above the Clare weir has large estaurine crocs as well as the Bowen river and they are permanent fresh water. So if there is not a 100 ft vertical cliff between the salt and fresh you can assume estaurine crocs could be there.

If you use care and common sense you will have no problems as there are thousands of tinnies used in know croc areas without any problems.

[FNQCairns]

Don't quote me although i understand it can depend on the extent of freshwater before where you swim, for instance we have some swimming holes well populated up here by humans and dogs, there is approx 15km of freshwater before salt, this river is wide and largely deep as freshwater sections of rivers go up here.

Guaranteed crocs have been there, although esp in the winter season the further inland they head the colder they are, they do not like the cold.

cheers fnq

[russ81]

Hows it going guys

Wheezer is pretty much on the money the salty needs to move into freshwater to desalinate it is a common misconception that they can only survive in saltwater. Estuarine crocs as they are called can live in fresh water however they are more common in brackish water

[warrior]

yes i have seen them way up into the fresh at shady camp i would definatly be on the lookout anywhere there is a chance of them being around as you said safety is paramount in these areas

[Dick Pasfield]

As indicated the naming of estuarine crocodiles as ‘salties’ is a misnomer that can lead top serious consequences as they generally prefer a freshwater habitat to that of the salt. As for how far up a river system they can be found, that depends on the habitat that river provides. Big rivers such as the Fitzroy and the Ord in WA and similar rivers in the NT would have them spread along their length gradually reducing in numbers the further inland you get.

The simple rule is to treat any broad section of river as suspicious. Leave your swimming etc for small creeks or sections of the river you have good vision, a sand bar for example and it pays to keep on guard looking for the distinctive bumps of a head. Crocs will usually stalk you before attacking, by that I mean they’ll plot your position from a number of reference points out wide to build mental picture of where you are then move into position and wait for you to enter the water again. Then you are meat.

Crocs are no longer shot so their fear of boats is gradually diminishing; it doesn’t help when tossers get into the practice of feeding fish frames to them. Some crocs now regard boats as a food source.

This croc (below) is called Brutus (one of the many with that name) it lives in the tidal section of the Ord. I’ve encountered it a couple of times, being bigger that my four metre tinnie I generally give ground unless I’m on the plane. On this occasion Brutus was feeding on a CPC bullock. It had several small three metre crocs sitting well off waiting to move in when it was finished. We moved in cautiously to get a shot. Brutus disappeared only to reappear upstream of the boat swimming aggressively towards us (you cant miss the intent of a croc looking mean, sitting high on the water and aiming at you).We backed off another 20 metres and he went back to feeding.



http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr4/dickpasfield/1-47.jpg

Salties are not endemic to Australia; they’ve expanded their distribution range south from Asia along with the barramundi as sea levels have changed. Up to 10,000 years ago there were more species aside from the two here now (the freshie or Johnston's crocodile is our only surviving home grown croc). One species Baru darrowi was a freshwater crocodile that grew to five metres and prevalent up to 15 million years ago. It had a particular habit of maintaining a water hole that acted as a magnet for wildlife; this gave a watering hole for animals in the dry season and gave the croc a ready source of food that had to come to it. These maintained holes have been studied, it appears that generations of crocs used and maintained them, using their bodies to keep them clean. The steadily mounting pile of bones collecting on the bottom was the give away.

Crocs can also be found in places you don’t expect them. One or two a year are seen in Lake Kununurra, they climb up around the dam. I once found a small freshie half way up a mountain at least 100 metres above the water. It was following a small water course that had a wet season flow trickling down it. Making that same climb unaided would have been pretty tough due to the loose rock etc, the croc was doing fine however.

[Jeremy87]

When i was up in Darwin last year we were fishing a stretch of skinny water 100+ k's inland that i could piss from bank to bank that had a 4 metre croc in it. Constant vigilence.

[boys play]

Great feedback!
Dick,
You mention the sustainability of a river system will influence the liklyhood of a crocs presence..I suppose this is common sense really, however there obviously is no guarantee.
Do you happen to have knowledge of the Leichardt and Gregory Rivers. My intent was to fish upstream in these rivers..hopefully reducing the risk a bit, however after reading the input into this, I am beginning to wonder.
Thanks to all for the responses.

cheers
Ian

[goddy100]

Where on these rivers are you going to fish? Depending on where you are it depends on the risk. Up close near the ocean, such as Liechardt falls, don't even get your toes wet. But up the Gregory past the pub, no problems, though one was reputed to be up on Riversleigh station. I have fished there extensively and never saw one, nor the property manager. however, when doing some work with the DPI, they assured me that if a barra could swim there, a croc could to, and you can find barra a long way inland.

Goddy

[STUIE63]

I have and would swim again , upriver from the gregory pub absolutely beautiful stretches of river there
Stuie

[boys play]

Goddy,
No idea. I see a couple of rivers on the map and thats about it. Have had some prior feedback on this site that also mentioned the pub on the Gregory and the river upstream. I didn't really have any intent on fishing the estuaries..keener to just get away from the crowd and find a bit of river for myself. Obviously not keen to share with the local croc population as well, hence my queries.

cheers
Ian

[GBC]

The water behind Gregory Downs runs crystal clear and friggin cold in the dry season - I wouldn't be too afraid around there at that time.

Seeing a salty trap at the npws station on the way into Adelle's Grove made me do a double take a few years ago though.....:P

[goddy100]

Access is also an issue. You can go from the pub south (upriver) and it will be just fine for crocs. North of the pub is aboriginal land and also AA properites, and they limit access. There is lots of turnoffs on the road heading south, just pop in and find a secluded spot to camp. Will need a 4wd with clearence for a lot of those spots, might even pick up some barra. Take your redclaw pots, always plenty over winter.
I have seen crocs in Gregory about 60kms north of the pub, have also seen drag marks where a cow was taken, scary stuff when canoeing.
For the Leichardt you need to either be near the mouth or back up near the dams, not a lot of access, or water, in between these. Another option is to call the property at Leichardt falls and ask if you can camp there on a water hole. if they agree they will show you some nice spots and you will be away from the crowd.

Goddy

[vinny78]

If I'm targeting Barra or Jacks I take the safe option and assume that crocks will be in the area.

[Mindi]

I think the point has been well made but read Glenville Pike's History of NT and hear about multiple croc attacks on horsemen swimming the Katherine near current town location which is about 350km from the sea down the Daly River system. Large estuarine crocs are still occasionally relocated from Katherine area by rangers for safety.