How are you people getting on with Fisher?

[finga]

I'm curious on how the people who had boats, motors and what-ever ordered from Fisher Boats when they went belly up are getting on?
I really hope a good outcome has been achieved for the people who have had money outlaid.
Please, no slanging matches. It's been done before.
Just gospel information please.

[Noelm]

kind of wondered that myself, it all seems to have just drifted away.

[nickstock]

Would there be an issue with getting a new boat built by Fisher?

I am toying with the idea of getting a plate boat built and have quotes from AMM, BlueWater and Fisher.

It would be nice to know any pointers before I lay down the hard earned.

Nick

[finga]

Would there be an issue with getting a new boat built by Fisher?

I am toying with the idea of getting a plate boat built and have quotes from AMM, BlueWater and Fisher.

It would be nice to know any pointers before I lay down the hard earned.

Nick
There's lots of threads done so i did a search for you and you can read and make up your own mind
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/search.php?searchid=978154

It seems this mob deserves to be in the running too
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=148640

[dazbax73]

I'm curious on how the people who had boats, motors and what-ever ordered from Fisher Boats when they went belly up are getting on?
I really hope a good outcome has been achieved for the people who have had money outlaid.
Please, no slanging matches. It's been done before.
Just gospel information please.

Finga
The light at the end of the tunnel has been switched back on. My boat is almost finished and all money paid has been honered. Communication has been good and the photos i have been sent also look pretty good. If i was to order another boat yes i would give them a go.
Lets try and keep this tread open this time.
Daz:)

[finding_time]

That is great news daz!

[dazbax73]

Would there be an issue with getting a new boat built by Fisher?

I am toying with the idea of getting a plate boat built and have quotes from AMM, BlueWater and Fisher.

It would be nice to know any pointers before I lay down the hard earned.

Nick

Nick

Give Jason a call he has been very helpfull. Ph: (07) 5495 4696.

Daz:)

[Alchemy]

Dazbax,

What model Fisher are you having built? Can you post some pics?

Thanks,
Dave.

[disorderly]

Are you looking for a bigger cabin Dave??...

[Alchemy]

Are you looking for a bigger cabin Dave??...

Hi Scott,

Have thought for a while now that the 7m Fisher would be a great upgrade. Not that I need it as Alchemy is a great boat. Just be nice to have a bit more space out the back.

[dazbax73]

Dazbax,

What model Fisher are you having built? Can you post some pics?

Thanks,
Dave.

Just a 520 dual. tried to post photos but not working will try again. Maybe will see you out on the water anyway.
Daz:)

[Alchemy]

Daz,

Just a 520 dual?.... they're a great boat. A mate of mine has one in Sydney with a 140 suzi. I've only been in it once, but was very impressed. In some ways I feel it is the ideal boat for up here. Big enough to get to the reef and small enough for the creeks, rivers, dams.

Regards,
Dave.

[Nic]

Daz I just tried to PM you the following but it says your mailbox is full: What sort of probs are you having posting pics? I know when attaching pics they can't be any longer than 600 pixels or have a filesize larger than 100kb. However, if you opt instead to paste the photos in the main body of your post (using the 'mountain' button) they can be bigger.

Sorry if you knew all this already, just curious to see how your new boat looks!

[smasheddreams]

To all concerned

I would like to thank all those involved in allowing me the opportunity to tell my story and hopefully help others in the process

As we were all told by the new Fisher Boats, Thread Fisher Boats (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=145976) post #65 (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showpost.php?p=985391&postcount=65) , all deals would be honoured. I then afterwards successfully contacted Mr Sanderson from Fisher Boats in regards to my DF140 Suzuki motor (which I had paid Fisher in full) and was told in short from his prospective I will not, I repeat, will not receive a motor or monies in lieu to that effect as there is, quote "no obligation to do it"

[disorderly]

smasheddreams...can I respectfully ask why initially you paid anything but a deposit on a motor that was yet to be ordered ..?...that smells bad right from the start...

Having said that, it must be a very bitter pill for you to swallow and it would seem that Mr Sandersons past and only posts were just typical BS...

It would be a brave man indeed that would put money down on a Fisher Boat...

[White Pointer]

G'day,

The liquidation of the former Fisher Boats Pty Limited continues and the prospects for creditors remains zilch.

That means I'm down the drain for $28,000 plus over $3,000 worth of instruments that disappeared without trace.

Nobody from the new business has ever had the courtesy to contact me.

The former business folded in early January with 11 boats in work-in-progress. It's now late May. Has anyone got their boat yet?

White Pointer

[FNQCairns]

To all concerned

I would like to thank all those involved in allowing me the opportunity to tell my story and hopefully help others in the process

As we were all told by the new Fisher Boats, Thread Fisher Boats (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=145976) post #65 (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showpost.php?p=985391&postcount=65) , all deals would be honoured. I then afterwards successfully contacted Mr Sanderson from Fisher Boats in regards to my DF140 Suzuki motor (which I had paid Fisher in full) and was told in short from his prospective I will not, I repeat, will not receive a motor or monies in lieu to that effect as there is, quote "no obligation to do it"



Well possibly if you reproduce that thread at home, ask the owner here to preserve it you might have a leg to stand on for proceedings, it would be nice to see this forum used to right a wrong, too often it's used as a moderated adjunct to protect people who really shouldn't be and wouldn't see the same protection without a third persons own personal belief structure interfering.

cheers fnq

[lee8sec]

This thread. http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=145976&page=23&highlight=fisher
Leigh

[Stuart]

I would be seeking legal advice mate. He made a public statement declaring he would honour all previous deals.

Stu

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Just some legal crap to settle you down and then spice things up.

When the creditors voted in favour of the voluntary administration and later the liquidation of the Companies they surrendered their rights to sue the Directors to the Administrators - now Liquidators.

The former Directors had the opportunity (jointly or separately) to offer a Deed of Arrangement for the creditors to consider at the second creditors meeting. None was offered.

For the new "Fisher Boats" to then engage with hull owners to complete their boats was extraordinary - because it was essentially a default Deed of Arrangement.

If the offer of honouring contracts was made after the second creditor's meeting then it is an offer by the new business, not related to the old business.

I have taken legal advice - and I'm very patient. I'll shut up for $34,000. What do you say SmashedDreams?

Any answer from Fisher Too?

White Pointer

[tin can marlin]

White pointer i like most other people have got no idea what hurt you are going thought at the moment the feeling of being totally sharfted would be unbearable have you contacted marine Queelsland to see if they might have advice on this matter as col was a member they might no of his wereabouts so you could have a chat to him about the new company not hounering what they have said. Col was always a big supporter of ausfish it is just a shame he has not come back on to share his side of the story so that you and other people could get some anwsers that might help you get what is rightfully yours a completed boat or your money back. I like other Ausfish members feel for you and i hope you win what looks like a losing battle. Regards Mark

[White Pointer]

White pointer i like most other people have got no idea what hurt you are going thought at the moment the feeling of being totally sharfted would be unbearable have you contacted marine Queelsland to see if they might have advice on this matter as col was a member they might no of his wereabouts so you could have a chat to him about the new company not hounering what they have said. Col was always a big supporter of ausfish it is just a shame he has not come back on to share his side of the story so that you and other people could get some anwsers that might help you get what is rightfully yours a completed boat or your money back. I like other Ausfish members feel for you and i hope you win what looks like a losing battle. Regards Mark

G'day,

Just some more facts (as I know them) on the record. Col Svennson ran the business for seven or eight years with steady growth, no debt and in early 2008 brought in equity to expand manufacturing capacity and cut lead times.

Up until early 2008 Col had never had a debt judgement entered against him.

In late 2008, early 2009 he was cut out of HIS Company. He has lost far more than any of us creditors. He was not in Brisbane when HIS business was asset stripped and arrived back in the New Year to find an empty factory.

I want justice for the people who have lost most and can ill afford it, employees first.

Speaking of employees, did they ever receive a payout on their redundancy from the former Fisher Boats and have they lodged a claim with KordaMentha? It's not too late to do so.

White Pointer

[smasheddreams]

G'day,

Just some legal crap to settle you down and then spice things up.

When the creditors voted in favour of the voluntary administration and later the liquidation of the Companies they surrendered their rights to sue the Directors to the Administrators - now Liquidators.

The former Directors had the opportunity (jointly or separately) to offer a Deed of Arrangement for the creditors to consider at the second creditors meeting. None was offered.

For the new "Fisher Boats" to then engage with hull owners to complete their boats was extraordinary - because it was essentially a default Deed of Arrangement.

If the offer of honouring contracts was made after the second creditor's meeting then it is an offer by the new business, not related to the old business.

I have taken legal advice - and I'm very patient. I'll shut up for $34,000. What do you say SmashedDreams?

Any answer from Fisher Too?

White Pointer

SURE, ME TOO FOR $15850!

[finding_time]

Smashed dreams and Whitepointer

Very sorry to here your problems are far from sorted out!!! I reread the earlier post by the self appointed spokesman for the new fisher boats owner and was interested to read this quote below!!! I guess old mate Payney has discovered stillnox and now has no problems sleeping at night!!!::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Ian

Payney's posts!

To date we have done our best to contact anybody with an "Invested intrest" and have said we will honor those who can bring forward proof of deposit's ect.
I'f you are one of the many that are still coming forward we are not about to turn our backs on you!
I'f this is the case then P.M. Me and lets do the motions.
Payney


Hey Black Runner
Yes that's pritty much it.
Legally we don't have to do anything , Morally we need to sleep at night!
Same goe's for any Waranty work!
Payney

[White Pointer]

G'day,

Like I said, I'm very patient. So is Smasheddreams, apparently. Anyone want to buy us out before we sue?

Regards ... and no more for the time being,

White Pointer

[cormorant]

Can someone explain how metal , ie boats at any stage of completion were transferred from the old Fisher to the new company? Just wondering how an asset of one business was transferred to another and what price was it done at and under who's authority?

One day they are an asset of one group and the next day they seem to have moved?

[White Pointer]

Can someone explain how metal , ie boats at any stage of completion were transferred from the old Fisher to the new company? Just wondering how an asset of one business was transferred to another and what price was it done at and under who's authority?

One day they are an asset of one group and the next day they seem to have moved?

G'day,

I'll make a short story out of this complex legal situation.

Basically, the contract with the old Fisher Boats said that as you paid progress payments on a boat with a HIN you owned the boat.

The legal opinion obtained by KordaMentha was that this was enforceable - the customers with a boat in work-in-progress with a HIN on it was the customer's property.

The customers owned it, had the right to leave it there, pull it out, whatever. But they also owned the insurable interest and insurance was hard to get in the circumstances.

It has been hell for these people and all of us.

Has anyone got their boat yet?

White Pointer

[Lovey80]

White Pointer and smasheddreams. I feel very sorry for the both of you. I was lucky my old outboard was handed back by the new director (more acurately he was lucky). Do I have this right white pointer? That 3k worth of your property was STOLEN? Why isn't this a criminal case then? You guys have a lot more patience than me. I would have verbally given him 48 hours to produce the money or it would have been taken out of his hide.

Cheers

Chris

P.S. If what is being said here is the truth then you bludgers still working for Fisher boats need to take a good hard look at yourselves!!

[Jabba_]

smasheddreams...can I respectfully ask why initially you paid anything but a deposit on a motor that was yet to be ordered ..?...that smells bad right from the start...

Having said that, it must be a very bitter pill for you to swallow and it would seem that Mr Sandersons past and only posts were just typical BS...

It would be a brave man indeed that would put money down on a Fisher Boat...

How true,,,

[nickstock]

I was about to go ahead on a 550 duel in the next week. I am yet to lay any money down and after reading threads like this, it will be hard to do so???

That’s the problem of the internet and opinions from everyone- You do not know who is right or wrong and the background behind it all.

One thing I do know is that I feel incredibly sorry for those who are getting shafted by Fisher Boats, either the old Fisher or new.

Like I said,
There are two sides to every story, but unfortunately the stories seem to be a tad to worrying for me to lay my hard earned down on a boat after hearing these tales.

It looks like my search for a new boat continues.

Cheers,

Nick

[JB]

Nickstock have u considered a Noble Super V?

[nickstock]

I have mate, but they are out of my price range to look at new and I have not seen any decent ones second hand under 35 000 (my budget)

[Jabba_]

Can someone explain how metal , ie boats at any stage of completion were transferred from the old Fisher to the new company? Just wondering how an asset of one business was transferred to another and what price was it done at and under who's authority?

One day they are an asset of one group and the next day they seem to have moved?

I would say the only way it could be done without consent from other interested parties, is by commiting a criminal act.. ie, Theft or fraud, or both...

[siegfried]

The silence from the Fisher mob is deafening as usual, if its true people are being dudded well jihad on them I reckon, nuthin $Hits honest hard working people more then liars and cheats, hears their chance to respond,lets see how long it takes, me I wouldnt buy a pop rivet of em.

[tin can marlin]

The silence from the Fisher mob is deafening as usual, if its true people are being dudded well jihad on them I reckon, nuthin $Hits honest hard working people more then liars and cheats, hears their chance to respond,lets see how long it takes, me I wouldnt buy a pop rivet of em.
Well said siegfried i would have to say when there is some good plate builders around at the moment such as bluewater and amm etc why anyone would go and put a fresh order in with this company begers beleaf. There are some very trusting people out there it would be like sundown starting up tomorrow and people dealing with them again. I just hope that Col's name comes out of this in tact because i think he is a genuine guy that did a lot for us ausfish members IMO. Regards Mark

[rat_catcher]

There are two sides to every story, but unfortunately the stories seem to be a tad to worrying for me to lay my hard earned down on a boat after hearing these tales.
I think you answered your own question. If it was me and I had ANY amount of concern, I would be looking at other builders.

[cormorant]

I was about to go ahead on a 550 duel in the next week. I am yet to lay any money down and after reading threads like this, it will be hard to do so???

That’s the problem of the internet and opinions from everyone- You do not know who is right or wrong and the background behind it all.

One thing I do know is that I feel incredibly sorry for those who are getting shafted by Fisher Boats, either the old Fisher or new.

Like I said,
There are two sides to every story, but unfortunately the stories seem to be a tad to worrying for me to lay my hard earned down on a boat after hearing these tales.

It looks like my search for a new boat continues.

Cheers,

Nick

Nick

Regardless of what builder you choose I would go have a chat with a soliciter right now and get him to advise you how to make sure any boat or money paid towards a boat is your property and recoverable at any stage.

Have a read of this thread as a starting point and also do a search on fisher or any other manufacturers you are considering

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=147333

I like trust accounts and independent inspections and over a 50k hull they would add up to a very small extra cost to set it up.

Have the boat builder sign a personal guarantee, do an asset check on him, if he really says he will build a boat etc etc.

Lots of different tools for the legal guys to use to make sure you are secured and not the bottom of teh shitpile when the wheels fall off.

Let us know what you find out and advice you get but most important get some build photos up so we can all perve when you start it. Will e the cheapest professional advice you will ever buy so don't sign up before you do it.

There is a lot of near new 2nd hand plateys that are well appointed so building would not be my first choice in the current market unless you have very specific things that can't be easily modified on a second hand boat. Lot less risk buying 2nd hand in terms of getting it now and in your posession - just some ideas

PS - o a search on the internet for kleenmaid and read every recent article to see ow easy it is to get shafted.

[insideout]

I have mate, but they are out of my price range to look at new and I have not seen any decent ones second hand under 35 000 (my budget)


Gday mate, i have been looking of late at boats all over the country, and noticed quite a few good ones (plateys) in western australia, such as jackmans and the like for about $35G . worth looking at i think. Boatlocater is one of the wa sites. it will cost u about $3-5g to get it over tho...But at least u can see what ur getting for your money in the second hand market.
Keep looking mate, one will come up..they always do.

[nickstock]

Thanks guys,
One thing that I keep hearing is how good a bloke Col is and blah blah. If he was such a top bloke how come people were left out to dry?

I will look into the WA boats as it is an option that I have not seriously thought about.The problem with the WA builders is that I cannot monitor the build ect, were as a boat in Brisbane I can get mates and my old man to look at on a weekly basis .

I think the idea of getting a solicitor to look over any legal documents is they way to go.

In the current market with boat builders going under left right and centre, I think that I would still be as critical to any of the builders.

The comment regarding second hand boats is a trickey one. The prices that Fisher have come back to me with are better then other builders I have seen so far, by a country mile. Almost to the point were I can compare a new Fisher with a 2 year old 2nd hand version of the other name builders.

It sure is a tricky decision to make.

Nick

[propdinger]

nicstock have you tried riptide aswell? worth a checkout atleast

[siegfried]

The fact that their prices have come down dramatically would also be a cause for concern 1. No work perhaps 2.No work=limited life expectany Sorry but the way this show appears to unfolded smells of unscupulous predatory business types, and anyone who would lay down cash in advance for a boat of all things in these uncertain times needs to give emselves an uppercut. I hate to see the little bloke getting r00ted,it is happening too much these days. Unfortunately after said little bloke gets r00ted no one seems to be able to do much about it.

[Mindi]

Nick

Regardless of what builder you choose I would go have a chat with a soliciter right now and get him to advise you how to make sure any boat or money paid towards a boat is your property and recoverable at any stage.

Have a read of this thread as a starting point and also do a search on fisher or any other manufacturers you are considering

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=147333

I like trust accounts and independent inspections and over a 50k hull they would add up to a very small extra cost to set it up.

Have the boat builder sign a personal guarantee, do an asset check on him, if he really says he will build a boat etc etc.

Lots of different tools for the legal guys to use to make sure you are secured and not the bottom of teh shitpile when the wheels fall off.

Let us know what you find out and advice you get but most important get some build photos up so we can all perve when you start it. Will e the cheapest professional advice you will ever buy so don't sign up before you do it.

There is a lot of near new 2nd hand plateys that are well appointed so building would not be my first choice in the current market unless you have very specific things that can't be easily modified on a second hand boat. Lot less risk buying 2nd hand in terms of getting it now and in your posession - just some ideas

PS - o a search on the internet for kleenmaid and read every recent article to see ow easy it is to get shafted.

Very good post IMHO...I have been banging on forever about deposits going into trust accts as they do with real estate agents. Any business that needs future deposits on unpurchased (from mfr) goods to fund their current salaries or rent etc is already terminally ill and isnt getting my business. Some progress payment process could be worked out to fund building of expensive boats...fair enough.
Would be keen to see what expert advice is available. Govts continue to demonstrate a complete lack of interest in consumer financial protection....how could they claim to have "watchdogs" when Kleenmaid can go 100M into debt with 2M in assets... If I had a watchdog that bloody useless I'd shoot it.

[Tim_N]

To the guys who have been "shafted", I would assume that if you have the documentation to prove that you paid monies into the old Fisher account, then you are fine.
From what I can gather from reading and re-reading the Fisher threads over the past couple of months, this is what the new Fisher group have said they will do.
What account did the White Pointer and Smasheddreams moneies go in to???? Money deposited into a bank account does not simply disappear. And where are the reciepts to prove any of this????
How come other guys have got their boats and motors and you blokes didn't????
There is way more to all of this than the average punter will ever know.
Tim

[Nancy_S]

[quote=nickstock;1022399]Thanks guys,
One thing that I keep hearing is how good a bloke Col is and blah blah. If he was such a top bloke how come people were left out to dry?



It’s Nancy (Col’s wife) here Col has his reasons and won’t get on here and say anything so I thought I might fill you in on a few things.

Nickstock it’s obvious you have been getting an earful from Sanderson and telling you what he wants you to hear. He is good at that sort of BS. Lot’s of practise at this and thinks he is never wrong.

We went away at xmas and Sanderson decided with his bunch of merry man (that he had also bullshitted to) to strip everything out of the two sheds without us knowing anything about it.
So I guess you could say that we were left out to dry as well. We also have been left with a major debt of the company as we were guarantors because they wouldn’t open an account with him.
Trouble with people like Fisher-too (Sanderson) is that they only see things in their own eyes as I and others have discovered. I think a few of his men that he took with him might be having second thoughts as well. I hear that Jason has since left the new business.
He accused and abused us after we came back and told everyone he ran into including parents at our kid’s school that we took off with money ranging between $100,000 and 1.5 mill??? He even rang Col’s brother just recently and tried to turn him against Col, how sad is that ??
The stories go on and some of them are quite remarkable from what people have told us. Don’t forget we did have the business for 7 years before he came along.
We offered everything on the table with accountants straight up but he wouldn’t accept this because what he ended up doing had been obviously planned for a while.
The administrators have everything they need and if we ripped the company off I am sure they will find out.
If there was any way we could have helped anyone we would have. It is a little hard to do much when someone gives no options to us only what he thinks should happen.
After the administrators were appointed he continued to work on boats and do whatever else he wanted using all the equipment belonging to the company which is very odd, when in administration, in most people’s eyes.
After the administrators sent the valuers in and gave us a list of valued assets we discovered that the list of items below had disappeared in the move and yet he just denies it like everything else.
He also bought everything that was offered by the administrators for a song and gave no one else any choice as he had it all in his possession and who would trust what you would get? This is still being investigated by the admins and insurance company and it will go on until there is an answer. It just takes ages. The whole civil law system is wrong and needs to be looked at as we and others are finding.
That enough from me, so here is the list, if anyone knows where any of this gear is please let me know.
Maybe Fisher-Too might be able to shed some light on what may have happened with it.
There are lots of other items and obviously ones we haven’t remembered.
Regards Nancy

1 of new 4.9 mtr Webster Twinfisher Bassmaster optioned boat fitted with hydraulic steering and electrics. This boat was purchased as a stock boat by Fisher Boats for sale at Boat Shows. Vin AUWTFRH428D808.
1 of new 4.0 mtr Horizon Pathfinder Boat owned by a friend left in yard to sell for him.
1 of new 30 hp 2 Stroke Suzuki outboard.
1 of new 6 hp 4 Stroke Suzuki outboard.
1 of new 2.5 hp 4 stroke Suzuki outboard.
Large amount of various boat and boat part templates
1 of 4.7 mtr Sealink yard trailer (Average condition)
Boat water testing safety pack including restricted use flag
Modems
Phone system (On lease with Ratemaster)
Bundy Clock for second shed
Boat stock chandlery
Trolley Jack
Battery Charger
Consumables (welding wire,sanding discs, ss bolts &nuts,rivets ect)
Battery Load Tester
1 of Trailer Trade Plate
1 of Scorpion 52 cfm compressor with air drier
Shade Tent and boat show gear.
1 of Trailer Extender draw bar and outboard cover ordered and paid for by Client
1 set of new Reelax outriggers ordered for client
There was 12 full sets of tools for the staff.
One box of Kokoda sun shirts in box in back office ready for embroidery
Large amount of Electrical wiring, connecters, heat shrink ect.
Hummingbird 676 Colour GPS Sounder
Stainless propellers
Yamaha and Suzuki tiller arms
Suzuki spares
Suzuki Marine Caboolture Bank Statements
Suzuki Marine Caboolture Suncorp Metway security token
Stainless steel security cables used to secure boats in the yard (owned by Suzuki Marine Caboolture)
Filing cabinet and locker belonging to Suzuki Marine Caboolture
Current cheque book for JJM P/L
Battery Chargers for digital cameras
Large amount of Stock aluminium and fabricated parts left in racks both sheds
Phone system (JJM P/L On lease with Ratemaster)
2006-2007 financial statements for JJM P/L
Back up CD'S and soft ware programmes from my office Client files from my office
Files for Jayjarmoo including all invoicing ect eg April. July,August & September
Computer programmes including MYOB Accounting plus V17 used for JJM P/L not Fisher Group
C'wealth efpos receipts for JJM P/L in folders.
Labeling machine (personal)
Eutectic Caddy stick/tig welder (personal asset)
Owner supplied electronics

[nickstock]

Like I said Nancey, there are two sides to every story and that is yours. Perhaps I worded it wrong as I ment no disrespect to Col as I have never met him.

For the mean time I will have to give Fisher the flick as the rumor mill has got the best (or worst:-/) of me.

Cheers,

Nick

[Mr__Bean]

I have sat back for all of the he said, she said., he did, he didn't, I will, he won't dialog that has gone on here.

But through all of it there is one bit I find hard to accept.

So regardless of the tales of money going here or there, here is a very very basic question:

Did you actually strip out the factories whilst Col was on holidays with his family without any word to him?

To me this is a fundamental issue of business integrity and trust, and would heavily influence my decision to put money down on a boat with the owners of the new company.

- Darren

[disorderly]

here is a very very basic question:

Did you actually strip out the factories whilst Col was on holidays with his family without any word to him?

To me this is a fundamental issue of business integrity and trust

- Darren

Its all Bullsh!t IMO..

No-one is able to strip out a business of everything without a hell of a lot of prior shadiness going on by the other side...well at least enough that they dont call in every department in the country ,camp themselves on the doorstep,take their property back and engage every legal avenue possible..

It seems that we ausfishers are all to believe Cols side because he has got his missus to run interference..::)

My honest opinion is that there are so many honest and innovative boatbuilders out there bargaining and looking for orders in a declining economy that why would anyone even consider this mob...?

Steer well clear of them I think..of course thats just my opinion..so sue me...;):)

Scott

[Nancy_S]

Darren you find it hard to accept we asked that question over and over again.....
if we were doing what he alleges would you not have a meeting about it and sort it!!!!. Not rock up to your house the day before we were to go on holiday's and then leave wishing you and your family a great holiday, knowing full well that you were going to strip the premises and leave them with nothing...... no income your reputation down the toilet your lifestyle taken away from you and a huge debt through no fault of your own all for what!!!!! So you can get on a site like this and call yourself Fisher Too, I know what that tells me about him.
Oh!!!!! I forgot to mention the little bit of money we have left, is being used on lawyers to try to get justice.......but when it's civil we have learnt it's not that easy...... but we haven't given up not by a long shot!!!!!!!

Nancy

[finding_time]

The prices that Fisher have come back to me with are better then other builders I have seen so far, by a country mile. Almost to the point were I can compare a new Fisher with a 2 year old 2nd hand version of the other name builders.


Nick

Your above quote is by far the most troubling Nick!!! What's the old buyer beware slogan, " If it sounds to good to be true it usually is" i would run a mile and not look back!

ian

[Tangles]

Ever thought about a glass boat?

[Fisher-Too]

I have sat back for all of the he said, she said., he did, he didn't, I will, he won't dialog that has gone on here.

But through all of it there is one bit I find hard to accept.

So regardless of the tales of money going here or there, here is a very very basic question:

Did you actually strip out the factories whilst Col was on holidays with his family without any word to him?

To me this is a fundamental issue of business integrity and trust, and would heavily influence my decision to put money down on a boat with the owners of the new company.

- Darren

No that isn't incorrect Mr_Bean, the fact is, early December 08 some very serious question where ask, meeting called and professional interaction required to adjudicate the financial status of the group, by mid to late December 08 it was quite clear, the company was clearly insolvent and destine to hit the wall by no latter then February/ early March 09, and I am quite happy to post the email correspondents – if possibleThe fact of the matter is the group needed an aggressive turn around strategy and I was not prepared to put in any further monies on my own.Through the xmas break I still couldn’t get my head around how the hell this could have happened and went through the figures a 100 times trying to deny the obvious, we where $1.15m in the red after 10 months of trade??.I was in constant contact with Col through this time, probably asking 1.15million question I guess.The fact is, I found more lies and could no longer trust my so called business partner/s.Unfortunately, the rest is history and the company has gone through a legal process

[finga]

So is the Fisher MkII boat the same as the Fisher MkI boat??

[Fisher-Too]

So is the Fisher MkII boat the same as the Fisher MkI boat??

No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well, implemented welding precedures and systems to assure a high standard of quallity workmanship.

[finga]

Who designed the new Fisher MkII?

[GBP1978]

So has fisher gone from being a true custom fishing machine to a production line boat. By the way we were due to order a fisher in feb this year but ended up ordering a bar crusher much safer option I think.

[Fisher-Too]

So has fisher gone from being a true custom fishing machine to a production line boat. By the way we were due to order a fisher in feb this year but ended up ordering a bar crusher much safer option I think.

No, they are very much so a custom built weapon, just all the options are autoCad drawn into your Fisher prior to construction to assure everything fits and goes together well. mate, there is nothing wrong with a barcrusher and i truely think at the time, you made the right decission, and truely hope you're happy with your choice, Kind regards Mick

[dogsbody]

"All deals would be honoured."

Mmmmmmm. Will they?


Dave

[Fisher-Too]

"All deals would be honoured."

Mmmmmmm. Will they?


Dave


It's been a hell of a journey but so far so good

[PinHead]

No, they are very much so a custom built weapon, just all the options are autoCad drawn into your Fisher prior to construction to assure everything fits and goes together well. mate, there is nothing wrong with a barcrusher and i truely think at the time, you made the right decission, and truely hope you're happy with your choice, Kind regards Mick

that would have to be on of the funniest things I have read for a long time.
My recommendation Fisher Too..say nothing.

[lippa]

mr fisher too. i'd change ya business name screen name and every other name.
because in the eyes of many fisher boats............... and that will be hard to change.

[lippa]

aigusto, thanks was for that cartoon

[Mr__Bean]

mr fisher too. i'd change ya business name screen name and every other name.
because in the eyes of many fisher boats.......... and that will be hard to change.

Jeepers I would have thought they had a very strong brand, especially in northern NSW and QLD.

Many complimentary posts here over the years.

- Darren

[Nancy_S]

Yeh!!! Sanderson the business wasn't in the best shape towards Xmas, Why was that could it have been anthing to do with you not honouring our orginal agreement and increasing the overheads, what a joke $1.15m you have a hard time dealing with fact and reality,
BTW Can you shed any light as to the whereabouts of the missing assets, but then as usual you never answer anything.
Also what happened to the meeting we were to have when we came back from holiday's, that's right you had already stripped the business then there was no need.
BTW We also have text messages that you sent Col while we were away and maybe we could put up the emails you sent us and the minutes of the meetings we had that totally contradict what your saying.

Nancy

[dogsbody]

It's been a hell of a journey but so far so good

Depends who you ask mate.

Dave

[lippa]

i meant under the current business model mr bean, not the vessel it self

[White Pointer]

To the guys who have been "shafted", I would assume that if you have the documentation to prove that you paid monies into the old Fisher account, then you are fine.
From what I can gather from reading and re-reading the Fisher threads over the past couple of months, this is what the new Fisher group have said they will do.
What account did the White Pointer and Smasheddreams moneies go in to???? Money deposited into a bank account does not simply disappear. And where are the reciepts to prove any of this????
How come other guys have got their boats and motors and you blokes didn't????
There is way more to all of this than the average punter will ever know.
Tim

G'day,

Just to clear this up, White Pointer and Smasheddreams produced proof of debt to KordaMentha at the outset of the Administration. It aligned with deposits into the Company's accounts.

At both creditors meetings our proof of debt has been listed as "proven".

Now, the new business managers made an offer a while ago. Smasheddreams followed it up and drew a blank. The behavour seems to be make a public promise and then privately take it away. So here's the challenge!

To the new business owners:

I want to take up your offer: My Lowrance GPS plotter, Furuno sounder and ICOM M-304 VHF radio were in their boxes when Piper Street was stripped. They had my name on them. I paid $3,858 for these. I would like them back please.

After that I would like the $29,047.80 that I paid for a 6-meter Maxi half-cab to be delivered by Easter back. I want the money back because I don't believe that you have delivered a boat this year and I don't have any confidence in your business anymore.

From January until now you have never had the decency to phone me, email me, write me a letter. Nothing.

So what's the answer?

White Pointer

[Greg P]

Mick - thats not really an answer. What is happening with the guy who bought the outboard? I did the same thing with Col when I bought my Fisher in 07 and had no problems - got a receipt/serial number and had no issues.

[finding_time]

No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well, implemented welding precedures and systems to assure a high standard of quallity workmanship.

So let me get this straight! It's a better built product than the old Fisher!! And much cheaper than the old Fisher and anything similar out there !!

But the old Fisher was going broke but thanks to your management you'll be in no danger of going broke even though your charging less for a boat!!

Good work!!;) Your some business man!!!:D

Ian

Ps All you old Fisher owners, i would be checking your boat welds as the above quote almost alludes to the fact that the'll be falling apart soon!!:o :o :o :o ;D

[White Pointer]

No that is incorrect Mr_Bean, the fact is, early December 08 some very serious question where ask, meeting called and professional interaction required to adjudicate the financial status of the group, by mid to late December 08 it was quite clear, the company was clearly insolvent and destine to hit the wall by no latter then February/ early March 09, and I am quite happy to post the email correspondents – if possibleThe fact of the matter is the group needed an aggressive turn around strategy and I was not prepared to put in any further monies on my own.Through the xmas break I still couldn’t get my head around how the hell this could have happened and went through the figures a 100 times trying to deny the obvious, we where $1.15m in the red after 10 months of trade??.I was in constant contact with Col through this time, probably asking 1.15million question I guess.The fact is, I found more lies and could no longer trust my so called business partner/s.Unfortunately, the rest is history and the company has gone through a legal process

G'day,

Thank you for this admission. A few questions:

If it was quite clear to you that in mid-December "the company was clearly insolvent" why did you accept my progress payment on 15 December 2008?

Didn't you realise that a Director that allowed a Company to trade in insolvency became responsible for the debt?

In reaching your decision about the insolvency, how did you value the future cash flows from progress payments in your solvency test? You may PM this to me rather than answer it in public forum. I'm just really intrigued how a business that reserved the right to pass on inflation and grew for 7 or 8 years turned to crap in just a few months.

When are you going to pay me back and shut me up?

Regards,

White Pointer

[Tangles]

aigusto, thanks was for that cartoon

!!!!!!!!!

mate, cant take credit for the toon, but it sums it up ;D . feel for the guys who have been dudded.....cant fix that but someone can??

[tin can marlin]

I would have to say that Fisher Mk 2 is of to a flying start maybe they could take over Kleenmaid and make that Kleenmaid Mk 2 they are doing such a good job of the Fisher re birth. Sometimes you have got to let things go and not let pride get the way of silly business decsions.

[withoutatrace]

No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well, implemented welding precedures and systems to assure a high standard of quallity workmanship.


What a load of crap!!!
As an owner of a Fisher MK1 and a past employee i know the amount of developement/evolution/safety and build quality that went into the hulls that Fisher produced whilst Col was running the business. Col has had a lifetime of building boats from large cruisers to trailerable plateys.

What boat building qualifications does Mr Sanderson have????
Perhaps he can give potential buyers an insight into his boat building experience.
Who designed the Fisher Mk2's? or are you using Col's designs?

I'd also like to know where White Pointers electronics went. I sold him his boat and i know the gear was there when the factory was shut down for the Xmas break. This gear along with a massive list of assets went missing after the two factories were stripped out whilst Col was away.

WOAT

[MattyDucati]

Col and Nancy, as a huge fan of your boats i hope to buy a second hand Real Fisher one day.
If you ever decide to make boats again i would be very interested in them.
And remember keep your headup!
Goodluck

[tin can marlin]

Col and Nancy, as a huge fan of your boats i hope to buy a second hand Real Fisher one day.
If you ever decide to make boats again i would be very interested in them.
And remember keep your headup!
Goodluck
Well said i think 99% of ausfish members would agree with you nice comments about good down to earth people. They were always freindly to me whenever i poped in to say hello etc.

[Nancy_S]

Its all Bullsh!t IMO..

No-one is able to strip out a business of everything without a hell of a lot of prior shadiness going on by the other side...well at least enough that they dont call in every department in the country ,camp themselves on the doorstep,take their property back and engage every legal avenue possible..

It seems that we ausfishers are all to believe Cols side because he has got his missus to run interference..::)

My honest opinion is that there are so many honest and innovative boatbuilders out there bargaining and looking for orders in a declining economy that why would anyone even consider this mob...?

Steer well clear of them I think..of course thats just my opinion..so sue me...;):)

Scott

No shadiness on our side so don't even go there .....you don't know enough about it to comment , he did strip the business read the posts ...... Mr cash for comments ::)
The missus is Nancy and I worked in the business with Col and when Col wants to get on here he will ....but for you he doesn't have to.

Nancy

[Lovey80]

I think Fisher Too has massively underestimated how many people read these pages and the damage he has done to the reputation of the new company. IMO he has allegedly striped out a comapny from under the bloke that started it because it was becomeing "insolvent" just to start up a comapny and run it into bankruptcy through some seriously questionable decisions. Im not saying fisher too is bunkrupt but at this rate how is the new company ever going to come close to the old one now?

Cheers

Chris

[finga]

No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well, implemented welding precedures and systems to assure a high standard of quallity workmanship.


Who designed the new Fisher MkII?
So who designed the Fisher MkII??

I always thought Col himself, personally, owned the design rights, or intellectual rights, to Fisher boats not the company.

I suppose this will be another pertinent question not answered :-/
The answer of the above question might shed a bit of light on how the Fisher MkII can be better and cheaper then the Fisher MkI and also give some credibility to the new mob especially if a well known and respected marine architect's name pops up.

[Mindi]

Well this might make for exciting reading on a slow day and there are certainly a lot of unanswered questions but the sight of the new and old owners accusing each other of dodgy behaviour would be better done in private IMHO. Yes I know I argue for free discussion but some of the earlier posts must be close to the acceptable line..?

[Heath]

White Pointer,
Wouldn't your electronics be covered by your household insurance? Since you paid for them you would own them. I reckon most household insurances would cover items lost at another location.
Also since your hull has gone missing, wouldn't that be covered under the business insurance that the original fisherboats had at the time. I find it hard to believe that the insurance would lapse just because the company become insolvent.
If assets have gone missing, ring the coppers. They have been stolen if they are no longer able to be accounted for by either the old or the new owners.

[White Pointer]

White Pointer,
Wouldn't your electronics be covered by your household insurance? Since you paid for them you would own them. I reckon most household insurances would cover items lost at another location.
Also since your hull has gone missing, wouldn't that be covered under the business insurance that the original fisherboats had at the time. I find it hard to believe that the insurance would lapse just because the company become insolvent.
If assets have gone missing, ring the coppers. They have been stolen if they are no longer able to be accounted for by either the old or the new owners.

G'day,

Thank you for this. I note that Fisher Too thanks you as well.

Unfortunately the instuments were never in my possession and were to become part of a boat, with its own insurance policy. More unfortunately my hull never got built. It was to be the first built in 2009. The aluminium was in stock but without a hull with my HIN on it I couldn't lay claim to it. More and more unfortunately I never got that boat and the opportunity to pay a nice insurance premium on it. So that rules me out of being able to make a claim.

Now, the instruments disappeared (along with a S/Steel BBQ that was to be incorporated in the design) at the time that the Piper Street factory was stripped out. I did speak to the Police about it and they asked me if the premises were mine and had a break and entry taken place. I'm not sure of the definition of "break and enter". I imagine that when Piper Street was stripped a key was used, so it was certainly an "enter" but missing a "break", so the Police don't want to know.

Former employees of Fisher have provided affidavits that my instruments were at Piper Street. That provides the basis for a claim. But a claim for what? With no break and enter incident, no Police report it all looks suspicious but it gets me nowhere. Nevertheless, the insurers of the former Company are "interested" but I'm not sure if they are liable, under the circumstances.

I must add that the Liquidators, KordaMentha (god bless 'em) managed to recover my Magma BBQ. It was not at the new Fisher. Somebody had taken it to their home for "safe-keeping", apparently.

So here I am at the end of May, five months down the track with nothing, except an empty promise made on AUSFISH that the new Fisher would see us creditors right. I say empty because Smasheddreams followed up on that promise and was basically told to get nicked.

No contact from the new Fisher, no explanation, no apology, no return of all my property, no money.

Enough for now!

White Pointer

[Lovey80]

I think all the unhappy creditors and Col need to get to gether and call a current affair. Bout time the whole country heard about this fiasco not just fisho's on here.

Cheers

Chris

[walruss]

To date I have not commented on any Fisher post. I have no affiliations with either side, have no axe to grind, am not buying a boat, and would buy glass anyway.

In my reading of all of this, what I have seen is a number of promises made by Fisher Too. The most prominent one I have seen is that all parties that purchased boats from the previous administration and were not delivered, will be honoured and delivered. Or words to that effect. Questions re design, etc, and the list goes on.

Despite numerous requests for answers, Fisher Too appears to avoid these questions repeatedly, although it is quite obvious he is reading the forum, by his selective "thank you's".

My question is addressed to Fisher Too. Are you going to answer these questions that are addressed to you either publicly or by PM. If PM'd I am sure the aggrieved parties will let everyone know when it is resolved. Obviously the two most aggrieved, White Pointer and Smasheddreams, will show the most interest in your answer.

So tell me, are you going to answer, or continue to dodge the questions??

Russ

[trueblue]

I think all the unhappy creditors and Col need to get to gether and call a current affair. Bout time the whole country heard about this fiasco not just fisho's on here.

Cheers

Chris

there is a good idea...

[Fisher-Too]

White pointer, as you are aware your electrics where returned to the supplier by the administrators, and you know that for a fact, because they held right of title until paid for, so obviously col/ nanc forgot to pay them to yah.I like most are a little confused how a reasionably intelligent man like your self would have parted with so much of your hard earned $k with absolutely nothing to show for it.shouldn't your questions (or at least some of them) be directed at col/ nancy, the old managing director and book keeper of the old fisher, because at the end of the day, they took your money, gave you receipts etc, obviously they must have made some form of representations to you, so where is your boat, motor, electrics mate

[Fisher-Too]

I don't recall promising you anything White pointer, in fact we have never spoken, nor have you ever attenpted to return a phone call. all other construction agreements have been re-negotiated into the new entity and honoured, so what happend to you mate .. jump on the wrong ship.

[siegfried]

Well its certainly getting interesting now , Id like to think everyones telling the whole truths of this not just half of it. Be nice to see a good outcome for all concerned. WP f#@*^d if Id lay down that much walung for electronics etc without taking direct possession (Col musta been a good bloke ay, does he have a long white beard and sit on a mountain, hed wanna for me to do that)

[walruss]

Fisher-Too, Can you pls explain this comment that you made on 17/03/09 (Post #160), particularly in relation to W/Pointers and S/dreams boats.

"The first priority on the agenda is to continuing construction of all boats (bar possibly 1) for all existing boat owners while doing our best to honour previous build agreements and progress payment received."

Is this true?

[siegfried]

BTW down here only numnuts's go on a current affair, amateur tabloid journo crap

[White Pointer]

White pointer, as you are aware your electrics where returned to the supplier by the administrators, and you know that for a fact, because they held right of title until paid for, so obviously col/ nanc forgot to pay them to yah.I like most are a little confused how a reasionably intelligent man like your self would have parted with so much of your hard earned $k with absolutely nothing to show for it.shouldn't your questions (or at least some of them) be directed at col/ nancy, the old managing director and book keeper of the old fisher, because at the end of the day, they took your money, gave you receipts etc, obviously they must have made some form of representations to you, so where is your boat, motor, electrics mate

G'day,

Thank you for this post. This is the first time I have had the opportunity to address you directly since this mess started. Please feel free to give me more contact details, like your email address, phone number, postal address. You have certainly had mine for a long time.

If you look up your records you will find that my cheque number 100157 for the instrumensts was dated 17 October 2008. You will also find from your records that the goods were received and paid for. The goods were marked with my name and kept in their boxes in your office area - in the same place where my BBQ was put. They were there, in their boxes, with my name on them.

I do not know that any goods were returned to creditors by the Administrators. This has never been mentioned in creditors meetings. I do know that my goods were not accounted for when the Administrators took stock - therefore they were not present. Neither was my BBQ which meterialised later. Neither were another creditors instruments - which "materialised" later.

In relation to the payment of my deposit in September and the progress payment in December, perhaps I should not have taken the 7-years of steady growth by the Fisher brand under the stewardship of Col Svennson for granted. I should have researched the name, its ABN and then I would have discovered a fairly new ACN with your name attached as a Director.

And if I had researched your name I would have discovered at least one major concern that would have stopped me paying my first progress payment.

So if you want bragging rights over this post - you win! You timed it perfectly to clean me out of $34k. Well done! Do you feel good?

Can I have my instuments and money back, please?

White Pointer

[Lovey80]

White pointer, as you are aware your electrics where returned to the supplier by the administrators, and you know that for a fact, because they held right of title until paid for, so obviously col/ nanc forgot to pay them to yah.I like most are a little confused how a reasionably intelligent man like your self would have parted with so much of your hard earned $k with absolutely nothing to show for it.shouldn't your questions (or at least some of them) be directed at col/ nancy, the old managing director and book keeper of the old fisher, because at the end of the day, they took your money, gave you receipts etc, obviously they must have made some form of representations to you, so where is your boat, motor, electrics mate

Hey Mick, all your doing right now is digging yourself a very big hole. I am not at all confused (and I think either are MOST) as to why White Pointer parted with so much cash to Nancy and Col with nothing to show for it but some reciepts! Why? Because over the past 7 years they had earnt that right with thier OUTSTANDING reputation in the Australian boating community and had done similar over the past 7 years and had nothing but super happy customers that got what they paid for time and time again. Do you see a trend here Mick? Wether you like how they ran things or not Col and Nancy got the job done time and time again. So much so that they were regarded by many as one of the best plate boat compaines in Aus.

I also was one of the 'Fools' that outlayed cash with Col in good faith just as smasheddreams and White Pointer did, earlier last year. I did it through Col not because he was the cheapest but because of his reputation for doing an outstanding job and being that I was overseas at the time I wanted someone I could trust. I hadnt even met him before I handed 11k over to him for the services. You know what I got? EXACTLY what I paid for mate. I will also bet my left nut that if Col had come back from holidays and found his business as he had left it, smasheddreams would have his engine and White pointer would have a brand new plate boat with a heap of kick arse electrics.........oh but thats right he got back and found his whole company ripped out from under him.

Don't you get it Mick there is a lot that doesnt add up in this whole debacle and it all leads back to you.

Segfried, who cares if its Tabloid crap. People need to know about this so they dont get stung the same way.

Cheers

Chris

[finga]

So who designed the Fisher MkII??

I always thought Col himself, personally, owned the design rights, or intellectual rights, to Fisher boats not the company.

I suppose this will be another pertinent question not answered :-/
The answer of the above question might shed a bit of light on how the Fisher MkII can be better and cheaper then the Fisher MkI and also give some credibility to the new mob especially if a well known and respected marine architect's name pops up.
Well?? :-/
More selective reading and answering

[finding_time]

Just reread the old Fisher thread and was wondering how Buddy Mania was getting on receiving his unfinished fisher, i hope all is well mate and you get or got your boat asap!!! I personally have some fears for you but i hope i'm wrong!


Ian

Ps. Someones done a good job getting all the ausfish threads way down ( and i mean way down) the list at Google!

[Thunderbird]

Col & Nancy
It seems that the new owners of your buisness must be part chinese!.
Copy something that already works. cut a few costs here and there, change a few autocad drawings that fisher boats were already doing 7 years ago, call it the MK2 make a better profit margin and pat ourselves on the back on how buisness is and what a great job we've done.
On the outside still looks like a boat. but at the end of the day a boat builder hasn't built the hull or had any input into.

What background does fisher MK2 have in boat building i wonder?
How would the interview go?

Dug a couple of holes!
Used to work for a boat builder once!
I once went fishing with a boat builder!

But But.. i know how to use autocad........

[foxx510]

I reckon every time Fisher-Too posts on here he sells one less boat.

[Lovey80]

I would like to make one last honest admission before I let this lie (of course unless i read anything seriously stupid again).

When I first read about Fisher boats going under, I was a pretty average Aussie bloke sitting in Baghdad on my seriously bad internet and couldn't believe what I was reading. My last and pretty much only dealing with Fisher boats (colS) was months behind me and a million things were running through my head as to how this could have all come about. Fisher boats were FLYING when I dealt with them and even through this economic mess I took a backward step and looked unbiasedly at Fisher boats and decided they were a good bet. There were a couple of minor problems, I think due to miscomunications due to Col attending a Suzi conference while the work being carried out (and me being in Baghdad) but everything was sorted out by Col 110% on his return a few days later.

I consider myself and intelligent bloke just like White Pointer, but it was THREE days before the penny dropped that my old outboard was still on consignment there.

Don't ask me why my own financial situation was put in the back ground as I contemplated how this could have all gone about because I'm still slapping myself for it. Luckily through PM's i got the right contact info and got my outboard back via my other half who dealt with Mick (who I will admit at the time did the right thing under the circumstances by me). The second hand info I was getting from my other half at the time from Mick left a real weird weight in my stomach. The good will i had recieved from Mick on returning my outboard at the same time he was making statements about honouring customers orders/debts/whatever or words to that effect had me feeling very uneasy why?

I had dealt with ColS, I had outlayed serious cash to him (for me anyway) and walked away another seriously happy Fisher customer, then I hear all this talk on the other side of things and I bought it all up!!!!!! I had never been conned in my life and was thanking my lucky stars that ColS didn't conn me and I had got away with a bit of luck. No Aussie likes to be conned and at the time I felt like a fool that was just lucky he had a dealing with a shark and didn't get biten. Such was the compelling story I got from my other half that was dealing with Mick at the time.

You know what made me sit back and take stock of it? It was Kingtins post a long way back about gut feeling. I didnt actually meet ColS until i picked up my boat from its 50hr service and had a quick chat about a couple of mods to my Webster. I drove out of the old fisher premesis with the gut feeling that I had just dealt with a genuine bloke and he was definitely going to get my repeat business. I didnt think about that until Kingtins post and started looking at things more black and white.

Sure I could have it all wrong, ColS and nancy(who I am yet to meet) could be a Bonnie and Clyde con artist couple that spent 7 years setting up this big sting on people and Mick Sanderson could have saved many from dispair in the nick of time and a couple of people are cannon fodder in the process (no offence lads).

DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A LIKELY STORY TO YOU ALL???????

Until I am PROVEN otherwise (which i think is highly UNLIKELY considering the new managments track record) I'm going to stick with my gut and put my faith behind Col. Mate if you start up again please PM me your new details as I want to be one of your first customers. I really hope I am right in all of this because im not sure where one gets their gut re-calibrated this late in life.

Nancy, could you please ask Col to email me to give me a recommendation on who I should go to to get the Suzies 100 hr service? By the way it is going great guns and the Hydro steering and fitout is still in fantastic shape!

cheers

chris

[cormorant]

Hi Chris

Makes you wonder why your old outboard ever left the old premises. It was nothing ever to do with Fisher II so why did he ever have posession of it?

Having assets in your posession that you don't own and have no right to be in posession is called something Th.........and ends in t in my eyes or was it just being held safe for you.

I think anyone who walked away from this mess with what they started with or work completed last year was very lucky mate. You dodged a bullet no matter who was holding the gun.

Doesn't matter where you drop it for service these days but with the way things read maybe we should all be getting a reciept when we drop it in in case the place goes belly up and at least we then have a receipt showing that our boats and motors were just there for service and not an asset of the company servicing it. Perhaps the servicing company should leave us with a deposit the same value as the boat in case they go boke !!!!!!

Prepay for anything ever again in my life before I have posession - not likely after seeing how folks got burnt

Hard to know who to trust with here one day and in administration the next businesses

[nickstock]

Cormorant- I am going to get a boat started within the next month or so.

In regards to the comment on never pre paying for anything again is very hard to take for someone in my situation.

Can you tell me one boat builder in Australia that will NOT require large progress payments on my new boat????????????????

I don't like the idea of outlaying big wads of cash anymore then you do , but is there anyother way? I am not having a go at you but I am genuinely concerned as this will be the first boat that I will have had built.

Someone mentioned trust funds ect, what is the likely hood of the builder agreeing to this?

Nick

[cormorant]

Nick

I think a soliciter is the answer as no website forum can give you any advice on your situation and an accountant for a quick opinion on the company you are dealing with.

Agree to trust funds etc- why wouldn't they- if they build a boat as contracted the trust fund is forced to pay and as the money is already in there they are guaranteed of payment. So a little bit get wasted in fees but seriously from the boatbuilders side they get guaranteed payment.

If you aren't comfortable with the deal or the company I wouldn't do it

From what is said here I would have every part of my hull stamped with my hin before making any progress payment and a receipt showing that you own the partially completed work outright and unencumbered at least then you can take it elsewhere to finish and administrators and recievers have no access to your boat. I would purchase all accessories such as motors by a payment direct to wholesale marine company ( even if organised by builder to get discount) and take posession of them with serial numbers etc even if it only meand courier truck comes past your huse then goes to boatbuilder.

Some basics would be in the contract you sign but I seriously don't know all the legalities I just know that in these times there is plenty of mongrels out there and plenty doing it tough who may be good blokes or builders but get closed for a variety of reasons.

If it was you on the other post like I said there is a bit of good vaue in 2nd hand rigs at the minute and a cash buyer could get a great deal and then do any mods required.

Best of luck and please let us know what advice you get and what we can all do to stop getting screwed either by the system and more specifically by fraud or unfortunate circumstances.

No deal is ever too good you can't walk away from and some are just worth staying away from.

[Lovey80]

Cormorant thanks for your wise words. I definitely wasnt the one that dodged a bullet though ;) I would hate to think of where I would be right now if I had just spent 21 hours in the air from Baghdad to find out that some snotty nosed suit(ballbag liquidator) was in legal possession of my property...... legal or not it would not have been there long.

Nickstock you have to ask yourself in light of the recent events in the boating industry, if a builder doesnt have the capital behind them right now to be able to leave your deposit and progess payments in a trust account until your 100% happy with the product they are ready to deliver, are they the sort of company you want to have building your boat? At the end of the day if the answer is yes they do have the capital to do it but wont agree for any other reason they are mad because the discracefull laws will allow a company to become insolvent and they get off scott free. You have the cash that they want and if they want your business then thats what they have to agree too.

[PinHead]

I'll tell you a story nickstock...a few years ago I was looking for a new boat..I spent months looking and test driving etc. I decided on the boat..the importer here had a build spot reserved...I got the boat built with the options i wanted on it. I did not sign a contract..all on a handshake..gut feeling was good. I received a fax from the factory so I could sign off on the items I wanted. I sent it back..boat arrived 12 weeks later as promised...and that boat was built in the USA...all I gave them was $5000 deposit and the remainder payable on collection of the boat.

It all went without a problem.

[lee8sec]

I posted in a thread earlier in the piece that i wouldnt buy a boat on the progressive payment type deal & still hold that veiw, if that meens no new boat so be it.
The people i feel sorry for, other than those who have been dudded in this saga, are the other boat builders who will loose customers who are now suspect of this type of deal, that would have previously signed on the line. Leigh

[Heath]

In regards to the comment on never pre paying for anything again is very hard to take for someone in my situation.

Can you tell me one boat builder in Australia that will NOT require large progress payments on my new boat????????????????

Nick

Cruisecraft!
Payed 10% deposit & the balance on pickup...
They even gave me a receipt for the electronics I gave them to fit.

[DR]

I suppose we should look at the other side of the coin for boatbuilders. They can get stiffed by a dodgey customer, they outlay a lot for materials & staff labour only to have the customer decide they don't want the boat or just disappear leaving them with a problem. Has to be a bit of give & take, it's ok to mention small deposits & large companies that make boats, what about the new fella, we all have to start somewhere & there are a few good small builders out there that need to be given a chance. Do your research...this whole incident has left a sour taste in lots of mouths, don't let it stop you from getting what you really want.

[Mindi]

Hi Chris


Doesn't matter where you drop it for service these days but with the way things read maybe we should all be getting a reciept when we drop it in in case the place goes belly up and at least we then have a receipt showing that our boats and motors were just there for service and not an asset of the company servicing it. Perhaps the servicing company should leave us with a deposit the same value as the boat in case they go boke !!!!!!

Prepay for anything ever again in my life before I have posession - not likely after seeing how folks got burnt

Hard to know who to trust with here one day and in administration the next businesses


Aint it the truth...!

[Mindi]

Cruisecraft!
Payed 10% deposit & the balance on pickup...
They even gave me a receipt for the electronics I gave them to fit.

well they have been a class act for about 30 years so this doesnt surprise me frankly..... but sadly cormorant is right and anyone can go broke now.

[bluefin59]

When i bought my bluefin i paid 10% down as deposit as well even though it wasn't custom i had a few extras added and it all went smooth as . Having said that i would have liked to have a fisher as well but there is no way in hell i would be BUYING or RECOMENDING them now or in the future i just cant see how i could give any money to someone who obviously has a shady business manner KARMA will deal with fisher too ,good luck col & nancy i hope the future comes up trumps for you ...matt>:( >:( >:(

[White Pointer]

G'day,

This will be my last post on this thread for the time being, until sombody alerts me that they know where my instruments are or an offer of $ is made.

I would like to thank Finga for starting this and Nickstock for attracting my attention and to all the others who have helped Nickstock make a decision about what he shouldn't do.

The past few posts on this thread have been very constructive - dealing with the issue of security over deposits and progress payments. The reality is that custom boat builders need these $ to fund working capital in their businesses. They usually don't own the property they work from and therefore find it extremely difficult to borrow for working capital and to fund growth.

But, as I know only too well this exposes the buyer to a huge risk and the risk may not be just the solvency of the business as a trading entity. It could be a dispute between partners, extreme financial volatility, business failure by key suppliers, lots of things.

I suggest that these issues may be better explored and discussed in a new thread so that it attracts the attention of a wider and perhaps better skilled audience to come up with some solutions.

Thank you all for your support.

White Pointer

[Systemic]

::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

[Mister]

Now there are quite a few lessons in all of this for other players. The principle has nothing to do with boats and the principle is you can't trust nobody these days and if you do then you only have yourself to blame. Has nothing to do with gut feeling either, simply the way the world is, you weigh up the risks and accept the responsibility for your own decisions.

[tin can marlin]

Now there are quite a few lessons in all of this for other players. The principle has nothing to do with boats and the principle is you can't trust nobody these days and if you do then you only have yourself to blame. Has nothing to do with gut feeling either, simply the way the world is, you weigh up the risks and accept the responsibility for your own decisions.
I think we have to be carful we don't tar all custom plate builders with the same brush. Lets face what happened is a major one of. I know others have gone bad but there is only a very small amount. I think trust is important from both sides. So lets not bash up on the plate industry as a group lets only bash the ones that are doing or have done the incorrect thing by it's customers.
Cheers Mark

[Mindi]

I think we have to be carful we don't tar all custom plate builders with the same brush. Lets face what happened is a major one of. I know others have gone bad but there is only a very small amount. I think trust is important from both sides. So lets not bash up on the plate industry as a group lets only bash the ones that are doing or have done the incorrect thing by it's customers.
Cheers Mark

Mark...read the post again...he ( Mister) specifically said he was not talking about the boat industry. more about naivity. I agree with him fully. You do your research, you make your decisions and you take your risks. Your results depend on how well you did your research and deciding. It doesnt eliminate bad results but its the best you can do. Unfortunately we naturally want to think well of people and are sometimes sucked in by the "buddy" strategy among others.
Anybody who prepays a large amount of money to a recently rescued/restructured business in an economy on life support would be taking a risk that doesnt attract me.
As for boats , plate or otherwise..If the economy and sharemarket recover while I am still upright I will be shopping for a boat in the good secondhand market handing over the bag of cash with one hand and getting the keys in the other....and probably getting a 30% discount off new for someone elses's 1-2 yrs of scratches and minor dents....but thats just the way forward I am comfortable with.

[fishing111]

Been watching this thread for ages now, and like others I guess I'll throw my 2 bob into the ring. Couple of thing's I don't get, well more, but anyway I was wondering what the thinking was/is in relation to White Pointer and Smasheddreams? These two buyers through no fault of there own ( if legit ) have been caught up in a whirlwind not of there own making, and if the new company/board or whoever decided to retain the name "Fisher Boats", doesn't do right by them than I wonder how such a company could ultimately survive with there logo in tatters?
I'm curious as to how the new owners plan to deal with this ongoing problem ( on the assumption everything is 100% true by WP & SD's ) given that most boat buyers cut there teeth on smaller rigs, and gradually over a number of years, get bigger, and or want a stronger boat to suit there needs. Of these buyers that have been around the block a few times, most do plenty of leg work on potential purchases, and most of those potential buyers go plate ( if so inclined ) and use the internet to start off there search. This is the plate builders bread and butter customer base, so I'm clueless as to why the new owners would take on the name Fisher, in any guise, or have anything to do with it, knowing that there are at least 2 customers who will yell there story from a cliff top until they are dealt with satisfactorily ( look at the number of views on this thread already ). Why the new owners didn't change the name completely from Fisher Boats to something else is beyond my thinking, then at least they could say not our problem to WP & SD's with a bit more authority ( doesn't make it right by any stretch ).

I mean if a company is not going to give items back that were purchased in good faith, what must the man on the street, potential customer, think his chances will be of first getting his boat built and receiving it, let alone god forbid warranty work needed to be performed on it?
You just can't, and won't be let off by the boating public by shutting down and re-opening and not honouring past customers. The new owners kept the name "Fisher Boats", so for me personally you have no option but to honour all customers.


I and others no doubt can pick up on the tone portrayed from "Fisher Too" that there is some real friction between himself and WP, but surely that has to be put aside, as that to me is just as important a reason to the longevity of the company as for the supposed reasons FT took it over in the first place. I mean what's the difference, if the new owners take it over and let some past customers yell from the roof top every chance they get, for Fisher Boats (2nd version) not doing right by them, or by supposedly letting the original owners (F1) run the business into the ground. Different problems but ultimately the same outcome?

[dazbax73]

Get ready everyone the following comment is 100% true.
I picked up my new Fisher on Thursday and is now sitting in the shed.
Before anyone asks YES I AM HAPPY WITH THE BOAT.
Daz

[rcfisher]

Well done Daz how about a couple of pics?

[backlash08]

well done Daz, good on you, what model is it?
cheers

[PinHead]

I suppose we should look at the other side of the coin for boatbuilders. They can get stiffed by a dodgey customer, they outlay a lot for materials & staff labour only to have the customer decide they don't want the boat or just disappear leaving them with a problem. Has to be a bit of give & take, it's ok to mention small deposits & large companies that make boats, what about the new fella, we all have to start somewhere & there are a few good small builders out there that need to be given a chance. Do your research...this whole incident has left a sour taste in lots of mouths, don't let it stop you from getting what you really want.

I cannot understand how a boatbuilder CANNOT build a boat without the progress payments set up. I will admit that I get payment for equipment before I install...however I install at the client's address..i have no legal claim once it is installed. A boat builder is different..the boat stays in his factory...it seems to me like they cannot pay to build the boat without the customer paying up front. Even Riviera used the progress payment scheme..how would it feel if you had 750k paid on your boat and you heard the news..panic would set in.

It does not make sense to me..if a builder gets 30 days credit from his suppliers..build the boat(s) within that 30 days..get paid by the customer..pay the bills..all is good.

[boatie_72]

I agree with pin head, i know that production boat builders like Quintrex, Sea jay, Horizon , BlueFin etc do not take deposits, they do not get payed till the boat is complete and they can have 30 or more boats in production at one time. Plate boat builders or dealers do not put their deposit money into trust accounts either. So it is a risk. i know Marine Queensland is trying to change that and the brokerage have to put their deposits into trust accounts now. So untill that changes its the buyers risk.

[disorderly]

Just out of interest what sort of timeframe is involved with the actual building and fitout of an average plate boat..?

[castlemaine]

White pointer, as you are aware your electrics where returned to the supplier by the administrators, and you know that for a fact, because they held right of title until paid for, so obviously col/ nanc forgot to pay them to yah.I like most are a little confused how a reasionably intelligent man like your self would have parted with so much of your hard earned $k with absolutely nothing to show for it.shouldn't your questions (or at least some of them) be directed at col/ nancy, the old managing director and book keeper of the old fisher, because at the end of the day, they took your money, gave you receipts etc, obviously they must have made some form of representations to you, so where is your boat, motor, electrics mate

I hate it when people say that>:(
When I was to holiday in Bribie, Col PM'd me on this site with his phone number and when I got there he gave me some GPS points and pointers to where to fish. Also told me if I was near his camping spot to come up and say hello. Never ever met the man in person.
No wonder so many people here stick by him.
Hope WP and SD get what's owed to them, one way or the other. Cheers8-)

[nickstock]

Just out of interest what sort of timeframe is involved with the actual building and fitout of an average plate boat..?


Hi Scott,

How are you mate?

The builder that I have decided to go with has given me an approx 6 - 7 week build time from start to finish. It is a 5.5 meter centre cab so obviously bigger boats would take more time. I was supprised by the quick build time.

You will have to come up for a fish with the family when you get a chance mate.

Cheers mate,

Nick

[pubgolf]

I loved the speling mistekes from the reasionably intelligent man.

Good luck WP and HD

Lets hope that the word spreads about the customer service offered by Fisher-Too

:thumbsdown:

Rod

[Nancy_S]

Get ready everyone the following comment is 100% true.
I picked up my new Fisher on Thursday and is now sitting in the shed.
Before anyone asks YES I AM HAPPY WITH THE BOAT.
Daz



Daz,
Yes you should be happy with your boat :) as Col is very good at designing boats.

And like you, my comments on all posts are also 100% true as I know that you should not make comments that aren't true as they could come back to bite you:o

Happy boating

Nancy

[disorderly]

Hi Scott,

How are you mate?

The builder that I have decided to go with has given me an approx 6 - 7 week build time from start to finish. It is a 5.5 meter centre cab so obviously bigger boats would take more time. I was supprised by the quick build time.

You will have to come up for a fish with the family when you get a chance mate.

Cheers mate,

Nick

Gday Nick...I've been too busy for fishing for most of the year unfortunately...I see you have moved north...some good fishing off Port Douglas I hear..good luck with the new boat...6-7 weeks does sound quick...who is building it and were you at all worried about putting money down upfront after reading threads like this..?

Post up some pics when you get it so we can have a drool..:)

Scott

[dazbax73]

Daz,
Yes you should be happy with your boat :) as Col is very good at designing boats.

And like you, my comments on all posts are also 100% true as I know that you should not make comments that aren't true as they could come back to bite you:o

Happy boating

Nancy

Nancy
So why start picking on me. Am I now one of the bad guys because I have recieved the boat I paid for.
I only wish Col rang me and explained his side.
Daz

[Jabba_]

The way I read Nancy's post, I don't believe she is picking on you, just making a statment that you should be happy with the boat because it was designed by Col.... Not by Mick Sanderson....

[Blackened]

The way I read Nancy's post, I don't believe she is picking on you, just making a statment that you should be happy with the boat because it was designed by Col.... Not by Mick Sanderson....
G'day

That's the way I read it

Dave

[finga]

Yep, I reckon Nancy was saying that you are very fortunate to get the last of the original Fishers designed by Col because we still do not know who designs the new ones.
Enjoy your boat matey :)

[backlash08]

yep, thats the way I read it as well

[Nancy_S]

Daz,

I'm sorry if you took offence it wasn't meant that way. I was only happy that you finally got your boat .
As I said happy boating:)

Nancy

[Fisher-Too]

Get ready everyone the following comment is 100% true.
I picked up my new Fisher on Thursday and is now sitting in the shed.
Before anyone asks YES I AM HAPPY WITH THE BOAT.
Daz

Thanxs Daz,Enjoy your boat mate, And thanks

[finga]

Again....Who designs the new Fisher's??
It'll only take a second to answer. Two or three words will suffice :)

[Mindi]

I agree with pin head, i know that production boat builders like Quintrex, Sea jay, Horizon , BlueFin etc do not take deposits, they do not get payed till the boat is complete and they can have 30 or more boats in production at one time. Plate boat builders or dealers do not put their deposit money into trust accounts either. So it is a risk. i know Marine Queensland is trying to change that and the brokerage have to put their deposits into trust accounts now. So untill that changes its the buyers risk.

That is very interesting... can you provide any more info or links on the point that Marine Qld is looking at trust accounts..? I would make a couple of points about this progress payment issue.

1. Progress payments.... it's not rocket science... a progress payment is just working capital you are not paying interest on, you can borrow money thru an overdraft at a bank for working capital for work in progress but your costs and therefore prices are higher. With progress payments the customer lends you the construction cost (interest free and with no protection), and takes all the risk on losing that money...its a sucker bet for the customer but will reduce building costs slightly.

2. Trust accts... its the way to go but not necessarily simple. I do not know the current situation with trust accts but when a business goes into receivership the assets are sold and people paid as the law prescribes....(not under some "buddy" system)..Their own fees first....then Tax dept , then staff, then secured creditors like banks, then unsecured creditors like customers who have paid for goods. These customers get nothing mostly. The receivers legal obligation is to get the most they can for the assets, and distribute what they get in the legal order....
The critical thing is what is included in the assets to be sold.... work in progress..?, boats without a HIN..? boats with a HIN..?.....and the point about trust accounts is that the company legislation would have to ensure that trust accounts were not included in the assets to be liquidated or the whole exercise would be a complete waste of time.

3. In general when a company folds and a new one restarts in its old place the whole point of the exercise is to draw a line under the old one. This means that the new company can buy things from the receivers like brand names, plans, materials....as can anyone else....? (the receiver decides). So the idea that a new "version" of a company with a similar name for marketing purposes is somehow still carrying debts or obligations of the old company is generally just wrong. The old customers who lost out of the first collapse have no claim on the new company....it owes them nothing in a normal business failure. I dont say these general principles are all applicable to the Fisher1/Fisher2 situation...only the people involved would know the detail....but people pursuing the reincarnation of a business for money they unfortunately lost in the failure of the previous business are barking up the wrong tree.....and the right tree has been cut down and burnt.

[tin can marlin]

I would like to think if fisher 2 are using col's plans etc he will recieve some ongoing royalties for his efforts over the years but i would think there is more chance of the greens zones being stoped than col's getting and kick backs for his efforts. I just hope Col starts up again when he gets on his feet I'am sure Ausfish meembers would role up in there hundreds to support him and Nancy.

[nickstock]

Good luck with the new boat...6-7 weeks does sound quick...who is building it and were you at all worried about putting money down upfront after reading threads like this..?

Post up some pics when you get it so we can have a drool..:)

Scott

Hi Scott,

I have decided to go with Viper bopats. There a boat bult from down near home on the Gold Coast. Phil has been one of the only builders (out of approx 21 quotes) that has actually listened to what I wanted and bent over backwards to try and get me into the best package for what dollars I had.

I am in no hurry to get it built as long as I have it up here on the water before the doldrums in mid November lol.

[Mindi]

good point TCM...but if the plans (known as intellectual property or I.P.) belonged to Col personally...then the receivers couldnt sell them to F2 because they would not be an asset of F1....so whether the owner of F1 is owed anything as "royalties" depends on whether he originally gave the I.P. to his business F1, sold it to F1, or kept it himself and licensed it to F1..?...or didnt even think about these questions and just drew plans and built boats...? (oooops..!)

If Col kept ownership of the I.P. then F2 couldnt use them without some agreement/contract/payment with him presumably.....as they would not belong to F2 and they could not have been bought from the receiver of F1

Not trying to be confusing...but just make the point that plans are real and vauable assets and who legally owns them is important and central to who is owed anything.

I think you are saying that there is a moral obligation here to the original designer .... I dont think I would be hoping too hard.

[PinHead]

Mindi...I thought the ATO has now been classed as an unsecured creditor and has to wait in line with the others.

[insideout]

Mindi...I thought the ATO has now been classed as an unsecured creditor and has to wait in line with the others.

Funny;D , could not imagine them in the middle of a picking order...

[DR]

I cannot understand how a boatbuilder CANNOT build a boat without the progress payments set up. I will admit that I get payment for equipment before I install...however I install at the client's address..i have no legal claim once it is installed. A boat builder is different..the boat stays in his factory...it seems to me like they cannot pay to build the boat without the customer paying up front. Even Riviera used the progress payment scheme..how would it feel if you had 750k paid on your boat and you heard the news..panic would set in.

It does not make sense to me..if a builder gets 30 days credit from his suppliers..build the boat(s) within that 30 days..get paid by the customer..pay the bills..all is good.


as I stated, why should the boat builder be the only one to take the risk, the customer needs to shoulder a bit. I have met many dodgey bast**ds over the years & unless you are a regular customer of mine or come recommended from a customer, you pay me a deposit equivalent to material costs or you go elsewhere., end of story..I don't want your business, once you prove yourself all is good..

[Jabba_]

Again....Who designs the new Fisher's??
It'll only take a second to answer. Two or three words will suffice :)

I have formed in interesting opinion from reading this thread and the other Fisher thread.... That being a dishonest person will not answer an honest question...

Are you a dishonest person Mr Sanderson, can you answer a simple question posted by Finga..
Who designs the new Fisher's??

Can you answer my question.
How is it that Col and Fisher Boats was running well for 7 year's, and within 6 months off you becoming a part owner and implementing your strategies to the business the company turns to shit....

[finding_time]

I have formed in interesting opinion from reading this thread and the other Fisher thread.... That being a dishonest person will not answer an honest question...

Are you a dishonest person Mr Sanderson, can you answer a simple question posted by Finga..
Who designs the new Fisher's??

Can you answer my question.
How is it that Col and Fisher Boats was running well for 7 year's, and within 6 months off you becoming a part owner and implementing your strategies to the business the company turns to shit....


That's another post that Fisher-too will just happen to miss i think Jabba!:o

[Mindi]

Mindi...I thought the ATO has now been classed as an unsecured creditor and has to wait in line with the others.

I dont know for certain and am not posing as an expert here... but the accountant in the family thinks they run second after the Administrator/Receiver's fees and certainly way up high before suppliers and customers.....but happy to stand corrected on that by someone prepared to look up the Companies Act which seems like a dodgy idea on a Sunday to me.

[Mindi]

as I stated, why should the boat builder be the only one to take the risk, the customer needs to shoulder a bit. I have met many dodgey bast**ds over the years & unless you are a regular customer of mine or come recommended from a customer, you pay me a deposit equivalent to material costs or you go elsewhere., end of story..I don't want your business, once you prove yourself all is good..


And DR what is your approach to "proving yourself" to a customer..? How does the customer know he wont pay $10K for materials and come back in ten days and find an empty shed..? ...should the customer fund your business and provide you with free working capital..? or should you go to the bank pay for the use of money like everyone else has to...and then add the finance cost to the build cost of the boat...(should be about $300-$400 on a 30K hull built over 6 weeks)
Sure if the boat is custom built then it seems valid to protect the builder against being stuck with a non standard item and then a progress payment system locks the buyer in and that's fair enough for sure......so if these boats are all one off custom jobs then you need protection.
This is part of the bigger problem that much of the boatbuilding in Aust is effectively a cottage industry...except for major players whose prices reflect the higher manufacturing cost of operating on a more professional basis.

[Lucky_Phill]

A word from a Moderator of Ausfish.

This thread has been let run its course and has been ' modified ' in some instances where people have been ' personal with insults or language not suitable for this site ".

We have been contacted by concerned Ausfish members regarding the language etc.

We are all well aware of people that read this forum and that includes kids.

This thread will continue to run as long as everyone keeps within the rules they agreed to when becoming members. It is a HOT topic and needs to be treated with respect from those that wish to post comments and opinions and as well as Ausfish. This is a public interest topic. Many members here have a vested interest.

Please keep to the topic and restrain from name calling and insults. That doesn't do anyone any good.


Cheers Phill


.
.
.

[DR]

And DR what is your approach to "proving yourself" to a customer..? How does the customer know he wont pay $10K for materials and come back in ten days and find an empty shed..? ...should the customer fund your business and provide you with free working capital..? or should you go to the bank pay for the use of money like everyone else has to...and then add the finance cost to the build cost of the boat...(should be about $300-$400 on a 30K hull built over 6 weeks)
Sure if the boat is custom built then it seems valid to protect the builder against being stuck with a non standard item and then a progress payment system locks the buyer in and that's fair enough for sure......so if these boats are all one off custom jobs then you need protection.
This is part of the bigger problem that much of the boatbuilding in Aust is effectively a cottage industry...except for major players whose prices reflect the higher manufacturing cost of operating on a more professional basis.

That's the risk they take...if they ask a few questions I will give references from longstanding, reputable customers, if that doesn't satisfy them, I don't care. life's too short to be stuffed around by people who won't do their research properly, I know i'm not out to rip you off, you just have to work that out for yourself, a little bit of trust has to be used..
I spent a lot of my early years dealing with dodgey car dealers & Real Estate salesmen, after a while you learn to get a gut feeling about people, you also begin to go with gut feeling more than anything else, and you learn the best way to collect any outstanding debts..

Obviously the only way for a lot on here is to walk into a showroom with a pocket full of cash & say, 'i'll have one of those' & if they won't hook it up to your vehicle immediately, leave & find someone with one in stock. You might not get the boat you want, but you also will not lose your money..

[walruss]

DR, you say "if they ask a few questions I will give references from longstanding, reputable customers, if that doesn't satisfy them, I don't care."

What about those that do the research, find the builder they wish to use, everything appears correct with the company, then suddenly overnight the company situation changes and they are bankrupt, and thru no fault of their own they are are no down large amounts of money. This is what appears to have happened to White Pointer and SmashedDreams.

What is your call on this?

[trueblue]

So, how does someone obtain all of the legally available relevant information about an ABN business or an ACN company and their directors etc, to make an informed decision about their legitimacy, solvency and bad debt / credit issue skeletons etc they might have in their closet, that might assist with choosing to do or not to do when it comes time to lay money on the table?

how do people prevent being burned within the limits of their influence?

cheers

Mick

[PinHead]

So, how does someone obtain all of the legally available relevant information about an ABN business or an ACN company and their directors etc, to make an informed decision about their legitimacy, solvency and bad debt / credit issue skeletons etc they might have in their closet, that might assist with choosing to do or not to do when it comes time to lay money on the table?

how do people prevent being burned within the limits of their influence?

cheers

Mick

do a search here : http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf

[Lovey80]

[QUOTE=walruss;1024375]DR, you say "if they ask a few questions I will give references from longstanding, reputable customers, if that doesn't satisfy them, I don't care."

What about those that do the research, find the builder they wish to use, everything appears correct with the company, then suddenly overnight the company situation changes and they are bankrupt, and thru no fault of their own they are are no down large amounts of money. This is what appears to have happened to White Pointer and SmashedDreams.

What is your call on this?[/QUOT

Ladies and gents,

Haven't we flogged a dead horse here? The same questions keep getting asked of already answered questions.

1. A builder of a custom boat needs to be able to have the capital behind him
To build your boat. If he doesn't and can't get finance then in this climate do you want that builder building your boat?

2. The question of trust. I really don't think in light of recent events that it would be seen as in reasonable for a buyer to insist on a trust account for deposits and progress payments. Both buyer and builder are protected. The builder can see that the buyer has the cash as it gets deposited and the buyer knows that his cash is safe until he has exactly what he ordered. The cost of legal fees on setting up is nothing compared to having your 100k boat 3/4 finished just to have some scum bag liquidator decide his cash is more important than yours.

Pretty simple to me

Cheers

Chris

[Wahoo]

there seems to be quite a few PPL that know alot about nothing, and should not even post on this matter.....in 2 yrs time when guys want to get a boat built, Fisher will still be there and still hold a good name, the new boat buyers will not even seen or read this rubbish that goes on, there is a hell of alot more thats going on than we will ever know, to the new Fisher ( Mick and team) good luck with it all, i know you guys will get busy

Daz

[TJ Bear]

At the moment boat builders may be slow but what about when it gets busy and builders are taking deposites for build spots that could be 6 to 12 months away, I can remember a couple of years ago when the Haines Hunter 680 Patriot was 12 months from time of order to delivery and if you didnt pay a deposite to ensure your build spot your order you just went to the bottom of the pile with new orders with deposites going straight in before you. I can remember having over 60 on order all with deposites. In saying that all deposites where quite small like 10k on a 80k plus boat with the balance payable on delivery to the dealer.

[Mindi]

[quote=walruss;1024375]DR, you say "if they ask a few questions I will give references from longstanding, reputable customers, if that doesn't satisfy them, I don't care."

What about those that do the research, find the builder they wish to use, everything appears correct with the company, then suddenly overnight the company situation changes and they are bankrupt, and thru no fault of their own they are are no down large amounts of money. This is what appears to have happened to White Pointer and SmashedDreams.

What is your call on this?[/QUOT

Ladies and gents,

Haven't we flogged a dead horse here? The same questions keep getting asked of already answered questions.

1. A builder of a custom boat needs to be able to have the capital behind him
To build your boat. If he doesn't and can't get finance then in this climate do you want that builder building your boat?

2. The question of trust. I really don't think in light of recent events that it would be seen as in reasonable for a buyer to insist on a trust account for deposits and progress payments. Both buyer and builder are protected. The builder can see that the buyer has the cash as it gets deposited and the buyer knows that his cash is safe until he has exactly what he ordered. The cost of legal fees on setting up is nothing compared to having your 100k boat 3/4 finished just to have some scum bag liquidator decide his cash is more important than yours.

Pretty simple to me

Cheers

Chris

Well Chris your description of professional administrators appointed to work under the law for winding up failed companies as "scumbags" tells us all we need to know about your opinions. Its about as intelligent as blaming the undertaker for a death in the family.

[Tim_N]

And,
I thought that the real owner of the designs of a boat, any boat, is the naval architect who drew them up. The naval architect draws the layout, theories, ideas etc up for a boat builder and they do so on behalf of.
So I don't think, technically that the designs are either Cols or Micks, but rather, these said designs were done on behalf of the original company and when the company changes hands, then the new owner of the boat building company is allowed to use the IP of the naval architect.
I may be wrong though.
Arguing who designs they are is, I think, going around in circles and getting know where. Who owns the designs now, is more probably, who own the rights to use the IP, and if Fisher designs was one of the things which changed hands via the Administrators, then technically, they are now Micks.
Does this make sense,I think I have just tied myself up in knots.
Tim

[GBC]

Big assumption TimN, big assumption. Plans have to be drawn by a naval architect to be owned by one.:-X

[Steeler]

Hey Mod's

Why is this still being flogged when others like myself were sidelined for a month for even making a reference to it ???????.

For Your Consideration

Steve

( pm sent Steve...... Phill )

[Redhunter]

What a load of crap!!!
As an owner of a Fisher MK1 and a past employee i know the amount of developement/evolution/safety and build quality that went into the hulls that Fisher produced whilst Col was running the business. Col has had a lifetime of building boats from large cruisers to trailerable plateys.

What boat building qualifications does Mr Sanderson have????
Perhaps he can give potential buyers an insight into his boat building experience.
Who designed the Fisher Mk2's? or are you using Col's designs?

I'd also like to know where White Pointers electronics went. I sold him his boat and i know the gear was there when the factory was shut down for the Xmas break. This gear along with a massive list of assets went missing after the two factories were stripped out whilst Col was away.

WOAT





Well, well, well Richard, I see you can put a post up here, but you couldn't give me the time of day or the courtesy of a phone call when the crap hit the fan. You had no problems selling me a boat and taking my money but you and svensson couldn't even call me back and let me know what was going on at the time, what a kick in the guts that was!

[finga]

And,
I thought that the real owner of the designs of a boat, any boat, is the naval architect who drew them up. The naval architect draws the layout, theories, ideas etc up for a boat builder and they do so on behalf of.
So I don't think, technically that the designs are either Cols or Micks, but rather, these said designs were done on behalf of the original company and when the company changes hands, then the new owner of the boat building company is allowed to use the IP of the naval architect.
I may be wrong though.
Arguing who designs they are is, I think, going around in circles and getting know where. Who owns the designs now, is more probably, who own the rights to use the IP, and if Fisher designs was one of the things which changed hands via the Administrators, then technically, they are now Micks.
Does this make sense,I think I have just tied myself up in knots.
Tim
Well I'll be gob smacked.
Fisher Too can give thanks to this thread BUT cannot answer the questions that will stop this going around in circles
Let all the guessing stop Fisher Too.
Who designs the Fisher MkII's??.
Did the Fisher boat designs pass hands in the buying of the assets or are they the personal property of Col??

Please answer the question as it should be the first question a prospective client should be asking seeing you are, in essence, a new boat builder.
All it will take is YES they are Col's designs and are now ours to use or NO they are not Cols designs. Fisher MkII boats are of a totally new design and bear no resemblance to the Fisher MkI boats built by Col.
If the answer is no who is designing the Fisher MkII??

Simple questions which can be simply answered by one line reply that would save a lot of guessing on the part of a lot of people.

Answering the simple question will only take 30 seconds more then giving thanks. Honest it will.

[Lovey80]

Mindi, administrators do nothing but feather their own nests. I put them on the same moral footing as divorce lawyers. It seems that on the surface some very dodgy goings on happened in this case. IMHO if administrators are called in for what ever reason then all parties should be told to step back. Does anyone know how one party in this was able to continue the business using all the assets of the old business? I don't know the details of everything but it seems extremely unfair/unjust that if administrators are called in and one parter is still runing the business. Tell me how is that fair?

[Lovey80]

By the way just because our screwed systems say it's lawfull doesn't make it right!

[finga]

Mindi, administrators do nothing but feather their own nests. I put them on the same moral footing as divorce lawyers. It seems that on the surface some very dodgy goings on happened in this case. IMHO if administrators are called in for what ever reason then all parties should be told to step back. Does anyone know how one party in this was able to continue the business using all the assets of the old business? I don't know the details of everything but it seems extremely unfair/unjust that if administrators are called in and one parter is still runing the business. Tell me how is that fair?
Yep, I'd like to know how and when the business and it's assets was advertised for tender or sale to realise the best outcome for the creditors.
I would have put my hand up for some of the stuff.
It all seems like a bloke sold it to me out the back of the pub type stuff.

PS I put Real Estate agents near the top of the scum bag list list too. They're above divorce lawyers even because mine was pretty good I thought for the crap she had to put up with.

[Fisher-Too]

And,
I thought that the real owner of the designs of a boat, any boat, is the naval architect who drew them up. The naval architect draws the layout, theories, ideas etc up for a boat builder and they do so on behalf of.
So I don't think, technically that the designs are either Cols or Micks, but rather, these said designs were done on behalf of the original company and when the company changes hands, then the new owner of the boat building company is allowed to use the IP of the naval architect.
I may be wrong though.
Arguing who designs they are is, I think, going around in circles and getting know where. Who owns the designs now, is more probably, who own the rights to use the IP, and if Fisher designs was one of the things which changed hands via the Administrators, then technically, they are now Micks.
Does this make sense,I think I have just tied myself up in knots.
Tim

Thanks Tim, you are correct, in the bottom right hand corner of all the drawings state, copyright of the design remain the property of the marine designer, and fisher boats are the only entity licensed to build them, even modifying the AutoCad cut files needs to be approved by the marine designer. it may have tied you up in knots but I couldn't have summed it up any better, cheers

[finga]

Thanks Tim, you are correct, in the bottom right hand corner of all the drawings state, copyright of the design remain the property of the marine designer, and fisher boats are the only entity licensed to build them, even modifying the AutoCad cut files needs to be approved by the marine designer. it may have tied you up in knots but I couldn't have summed it up any better, cheers
So who is the marine designer of Fisher MkII's??
His or her's name is on the bottom right of all the drawings so it must be easy to find.

Two words and is the designer is all that's needed.
I'll even give an example...Fred Smith is the designer.

Oh, just thought...it might be a company. If so just use the company name of the marine designers or marine architects.

It can only lead to a better understanding to the viewing audience here that Fisher MkII are all above aboard and trying to get away from the Fisher MkI ongoing saga.
End some of the speculation here and name the designer.

He or she or they may be world renown and people will automatically love the new Fishers just because of who designed them.

God give me some strength. This is just plain bugging the begeesus out of me now :-/

[Tangles]

Mindi, administrators do nothing but feather their own nests. I put them on the same moral footing as divorce lawyers. It seems that on the surface some very dodgy goings on happened in this case. IMHO if administrators are called in for what ever reason then all parties should be told to step back. Does anyone know how one party in this was able to continue the business using all the assets of the old business? I don't know the details of everything but it seems extremely unfair/unjust that if administrators are called in and one parter is still runing the business. Tell me how is that fair?

Lovely80, not an administrators issue, they are there to deal with the breakup just like the divorce lawyers; they exist as we dont live in a perfect world, directors and husbands ad wives sometimes just dont get on, cant work it out and have a bad business model/practice etc .... its more like glorified social work.... morally they exist because people need their services, no different from any other service... ie there is no compulsion to employ a divorce lawyer is there?

[Lovey80]

Aigusto, I get your point. But in this case one partner goes on holiday thinking the marriage is going fine. Comes home to find hubby has packed the house and garage up, moved house and remarried before the judge has made a decision. The hubby that went away didn't even have a chance to resolve things amicably by the sounds of it.

[Horto22]

Prefer it wasnt the case and none of this mess at Fisher boats had occurred, but we were very lucky to recive the last boat built by Col & his team.

We (3 brothers) ordered the boat on Cols promise that they would deliver it before Christmas 2008 and true to his word, it was delivered to us on 23-12-08. Last boat out of the factory prior to Christmas Shutdown.

I feel very sorry for whats happened and wont speculate or take side as so many have other to say I wish Col & Nancy all the best & thanks again for delivering our boat as promised.

I would also love to see Fisher Boats survive and grow, so many others lucky enough to purchase one, can enjoy the quality, ride and pride of ownership that these boats deliver in spades.

For a company to be robust and sucsesful it requires the efforts & skill of many staff and should not fall to pieces if any 1 or 2 key personal leave for what ever reason. There are also many other people that will suffer if Fisher 2 fails and I dont know why anyone other than their competitors would want that.

Let the courts decide decide whats what. If Cols can regain control or pick up the pieces even he will be better of if Fisher 2 remains viable. Untill then unless anyone has first hand experiences or dealings with Mick your opinions on the Man are of no public value. All I know is that he appears to be honouring deals done with Fisher 1, that he or Fisher 2 would have no legal obligation to do so.

I have attached a few pics of our 800 Maxi, it would be a crying shame if no more of these great boats were built.

Cheers
Horto

[Lovey80]

Now that is a sexy looking boat there Horto, any pics of the inside cabin? I dont think they could possible get much better than that mate!

Cheers

Chris

[iceknight]

Anything with the name fisher just screams dodgy ............ sucks for people who handed cash out and never reciveved anything........

[finga]

, nasty
Prefer it wasnt the case and none of this mess at Fisher boats had occurred, but we were very lucky to recive the last boat built by Col & his team.

We (3 brothers) ordered the boat on Cols promise that they would deliver it before Christmas 2008 and true to his word, it was delivered to us on 23-12-08. Last boat out of the factory prior to Christmas Shutdown.

I feel very sorry for whats happened and wont speculate or take side as so many have other to say I wish Col & Nancy all the best & thanks again for delivering our boat as promised.

I would also love to see Fisher Boats survive and grow, so many others lucky enough to purchase one, can enjoy the quality, ride and pride of ownership that these boats deliver in spades.

For a company to be robust and sucsesful it requires the efforts & skill of many staff and should not fall to pieces if any 1 or 2 key personal leave for what ever reason. There are also many other people that will suffer if Fisher 2 fails and I dont know why anyone other than their competitors would want that.

Let the courts decide decide whats what. If Cols can regain control or pick up the pieces even he will be better of if Fisher 2 remains viable. Untill then unless anyone has first hand experiences or dealings with Mick your opinions on the Man are of no public value. All I know is that he appears to be honouring deals done with Fisher 1, that he or Fisher 2 would have no legal obligation to do so.

Cheers
Horto


Now that is a sexy looking boat there Horto, any pics of the inside cabin? I dont think they could possible get much better than that mate!
Cheers

Chris
Yes, that boat is a thing of beauty alright.
I hope it wil bring you and your brothers many years of enjoyment.

But the $124,000 (literally in some cases) question is who designs the new Fisher MkII???
Your new boat may well have been the last real Fisher ever built because they are now different.
Unless the designer or architect is known who knows if the new Fisher MkII's come even close to the originals in their abilities.

Fisher MkII may be Fisher by name BUT are they Fisher by nature seeing the designs have been changed??

If it's that hard to get a straight simple answer to one simple question such as who designed the boat then how hard would it be to get any other answers such as build time, what do we get for our money and price etc etc?

[finga]

You know...through all this I am reminded of the story of the Haines Family and how they built a beautiful boat and then a shareholders and investors were brought in and then the family was forced out of the business and then started another boat building business.
How many realise that the Haines Family have nothing to do with the Haines Hunter boat now and that the Haines Hunter has NO affiliations with Haines Signature boats??

Here is a short version of the story with the dirty nasty bits left out.
http://www.haines-marine.com.au/news.aspx?newsID=36

Does the story sound familiar??
I have a funny feeling Col and Nancy are the Haine's family in the above story.

How are the Haines Hunters regarded as a new boat option as compared to the Haines Signature??

[trueblue]

[quote=Fisher-Too;1022674]No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well[quote]

this statement doesn't actually say the design has been changed. It simply states that the autocad 'cut files' have been modified so that the boats 'fit together better'

An autocad file for a computer based plate cutting system is not the boat design. It is simply one tool used to prepare materials for assembly.

Anyone who knows anything about metal fabrication manufacturing, design drawings, autocad, and the like will be aware that minor changes to the way a plate is cut to aid with assembly does not necessarily change the design - it just helps the fabricator who doesn't have to trim as much by hand during the assembly.

From the silence, one would assume that the boat designs are substantially if not wholly the same as Fisher mk I.

So, who owns the design?

And how did everything being wound up and sold from a 'failed' business not get advertised to the public to ensure the maximum return on the dollar to the creditors.

All seems very dodgy, especially for the new mob to trade under the original Fisher name.

[finding_time]

[quote=Fisher-Too;1022674]

And how did everything being wound up and sold from a 'failed' business not get advertised to the public to ensure the maximum return on the dollar to the creditors.

.



Yes Mick this is another one of those questions that have been asked SEVERAL times but Fisher mk11 seems to keep missing!!;)

Ian

[finga]

No - its actually a better built product - we have modified the autocad cut files so these boats have never gone together so well, implemented welding precedures and systems to assure a high standard of quallity workmanship.


Thanks Tim, you are correct, in the bottom right hand corner of all the drawings state, copyright of the design remain the property of the marine designer, and fisher boats are the only entity licensed to build them, even modifying the AutoCad cut files needs to be approved by the marine designer. it may have tied you up in knots but I couldn't have summed it up any better, cheers




this statement doesn't actually say the design has been changed. It simply states that the autocad 'cut files' have been modified so that the boats 'fit together better'

An autocad file for a computer based plate cutting system is not the boat design. It is simply one tool used to prepare materials for assembly.


Mick has stated that... "even modifying the AutoCad cut files needs to be approved by the marine designer"..
Who's name is it in the bottom bottom right corner??

Tickle me grandmother it ain't a hard question is it?? http://www.smileyhut.com/confused/g.gif

[Mindi]

[quote=trueblue;1024783]



Yes Mick this is another one of those questions that have been asked SEVERAL times but Fisher mk11 seems to keep missing!!;)

Ian

...but that isn't a question for F2...it is none of F2's business.....it is a question for the administrator. I think I have read that the administrator/receiver/liquidator (usually same person at differnent stages of burial process) is obligated to maximise the return to the creditors and this doesnt necessarily require any "public" sale...can be sold privately..or to someone wanting to start another unrelated business like F2.......The exact approach would be voted on at a creditors meeting and the liquidator is then obliged to obey that vote...? so I dont THINK there is any obligation to have an auction or public sale.

Happy to stand corrected by someone who knows the law. It is a good idea to remember that a lot of these questions are not actions that someone just "pulls out of mid air"...there is a lot of legislation which sets out very specific law to be followed.

[Steeler]

[quote=finding_time;1024784]

...but that isn't a question for F2...it is none of F2's business.....it is a question for the administrator. I think I have read that the administrator/receiver/liquidator (usually same person at differnent stages of burial process) is obligated to maximise the return to the creditors and this doesnt necessarily require any "public" sale...can be sold privately..or to someone wanting to start another unrelated business like F2.......The exact approach would be voted on at a creditors meeting and the liquidator is then obliged to obey that vote...? so I dont THINK there is any obligation to have an auction or public sale.

Happy to stand corrected by someone who knows the law. It is a good idea to remember that a lot of these questions are not actions that someone just "pulls out of mid air"...there is a lot of legislation which sets out very specific law to be followed.


Hi All

Throughout my career in the automotive spare parts industry ( at a w/sale & import level ) whenever a customer was placed in the hands of a administrator and eventually wound up in all cases to the best of my knowledge ( err memory ) all the property of that business went to auction including stock, vehicles,racking,office equipment in a nutshell EVERYTHING.A quick search of Grays and others and you will find quite often they hold auctions on behalf of admin's where business's have been wound up.To not have these sales in a public sense would be to quite possibly deny yourself the possible price resulting in less funds to distribute amongst creditors.

The auctions were all advertised heavily in the preceding 6-8 week period within the industry and through public notices so as to give everybody who may have an interest in purchasing any of these items a chance to bid and acquire any of them.

I can't re-call anywhere in this entire thread where this may have happened.

I am no genius just ask my wife but is it at all possible that if i have a hand in 2 companies is it at all possible i could sell items from one of my companies to the other at anytime ( in a very quick time within a short window of OPPORTUNITY ) thus leaving the first with nothing for the admin's to sell off.

This may possibly explain some things or do i have simply to much time on my hands ?.

I will not be offended by any of your answers.

Cheers

Steve

PS : And go the blues !!!!!!

[trueblue]

Where I worked at the end of the eighties / early ninetys there were businesses collapsing all around. one door up, four doors up, two doors down etc.

I picked up really good tools at auction when the those business assets were sold off publicly.

My boss picked up heaps of materials and products as well. (steel, ally, consumeables, machinery etc)

The business premisis was always put into lock down with nothing touched. Anything inside the premesis was stuck inside under security. This included employees personal tool kits and property that was inside when the gate was locked. The employees did not get their stuff back in all cases, and those who did only got it a few days before the auction during discussions with the administrators / liquidators and upon proof that it was their personal property. Proof of personal ownership is pretty hard in these cases.

There was always a good 6 weeks of public advertisement of the auction. there were signs on the gate stating the viewing and auction dates.

and people wonder why there is a dead rat smell lingering over all of this.......

[Nancy_S]

Hi All,
This is my reply to the design issue.
Fisher Mk2 did not buy the designs from the administrators.
The Dual series boats were drawn by hand by Col and then he had his designer that he has worked with for the last 20 yrs do the Auto Cad drawings. These were constantly modified and evolved along the way to improve the build quality and enable them to go together easier. The designer was always paid a one off fee and has never had rights to royalties or licenses.
The Maxi hulls started the same way, with Col and the designer starting with one boat. These boats were then worked up into different sizes by Col using templates. After many boats were built and developed we then had what we were after. We then paid a person a one off fee to do as built drawings on a 3d modeling program and once again he was paid once and has absolutely nothing to do with owning anything. All he did was contract his computer skills to us. This all happened many years ago using the years of experience Col has in understanding computer modeling and boat building to produce a quality boat for customers.
Hope this answers a few queries.

Nancy

[FNQCairns]

Hi All,
This is my reply to the design issue.
Fisher Mk2 did not buy the designs from the administrators.
The Dual series boats were drawn by hand by Col and then he had his designer that he has worked with for the last 20 yrs do the Auto Cad drawings. These were constantly modified and evolved along the way to improve the build quality and enable them to go together easier. The designer was always paid a one off fee and has never had rights to royalties or licenses.
The Maxi hulls started the same way, with Col and the designer starting with one boat. These boats were then worked up into different sizes by Col using templates. After many boats were built and developed we then had what we were after. We then paid a person a one off fee to do as built drawings on a 3d modeling program and once again he was paid once and has absolutely nothing to do with owning anything. All he did was contract his computer skills to us. This all happened many years ago using the years of experience Col has in understanding computer modeling and boat building to produce a quality boat for customers.
Hope this answers a few queries.

Nancy

And this is almost exact same way it's been done 90+% of the time for every boat sold forever given each periods technology level and material type, we simply wouldn't have had near the advances in design or quality we have now if boat design was the sole or near sole domain of naval architects etc, we would all be forced to drive ford and holden looking/performing boats otherwise:-[.

cheers fnq

[BM]

The truth has a funny way of surfacing in the end and I believe in Karma occasionally balancing the injustices.

Something I learnt a long time ago is "he who harbours a grudge hurts only himself".

You stay angry with someone and the only person being consumed by that hatred is yourself. The other party has moved on and continued living.

Whoever is the crook in the Fisher situation will be living looking over their shoulder for sometime methinks. Not a nice way to live (unless you have no conscience). If the law doesn't catch up with them, natural justice probably will..........

And to those still fighting for their money back etc keep on keeping on. I know how you feel. A certain crook on a nearby island owes me 11K.

cheers

[dodgyone]

Funny how both the warring parties gave thanks on that last one. Must both feel that they are in the right to some extent.

[Dark invader]

Karma Has Caught Up With You Col

[finga]

Ah so the truth emerges.
Thanks Nancy for letting the cat out of the bag.

Fisher MkII cannot build the same boat or near the same boat as Fisher MkI as Col owns the designs personally and were not a part of the buying of acquisitions when Mr Sanderson purchased Fisher MkI acquisitions.

So the boat shown above IS one of the last true Fisher boats.

So my question still stands...Mr Sanderson, please inform us who is designing your boats??
You've read where I have asked but no reply.
All I know is it is not Col designing them and it is not me designing them (I can use Cad too) so who is it?
It might be Mr Sanderson himself??

I just looked at the Fisher Boats website.
Is it the old one or the new one??
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/

Here's is a quote from it.
Our designer’s many years of boat building and fishing experience has led to the superior layout and construction of these unique alloy plate boats, without the inflated price tag!
So who is the designer who has had many years experience building and fishing experience??
Sounds like Col but cannot be Col as Col owns his designs.

Bloody hell the boys have been busy building. Look at some of the pictures
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/data/580.html
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/data/550DS.html
They must have been busy because they cannot be pictures of the old Fishers can they seeing Fisher MkII's cannot be the same as the Fisher MkI's or is it false advertising??

[Nancy_S]

Karma Has Caught Up With You Col



::) ::) ::) ::) If it smells like fish it usually is.

That's a useless post....... at least everyone knows who I am.

Nancy

[backlash08]

so who is dark invader?

[Wahoo]

so who is dark invader?

i dont think it really matters, he had his say, he is not a new member, and if he did say what he had to say, im sure a few members that have no idea will bag him, that is just the way this forum goes

Happy Boating

Daz

[backlash08]

i dont think it really matters, he had his say, he is not a new member, and if he did say what he had to say, im sure a few members that have no idea will bag him, that is just the way this forum goes

Happy Boating

Daz

Daz, by his avatar he is a new member?? as a bullet from the side

[Wahoo]

G'day Craig, his join date is 2007, long before this sarga, he must of said what he said for a reason


Daz

[backlash08]

fair enough Daz
cheers - Craig

[disorderly]

G'day Craig, his join date is 2007, long before this sarga, he must of said what he said for a reason


Daz

Daz...You and I and many others know that this is such a limited version of events and that its unlikely that the history and background of those involved will actually see the light of day here...

Ausfish itself wont tolerate any mention of bad words against its former advertiser and most of the guys that had fishers built over the last few years had a very good experience and are happy with the boat they received and are self confessed zealots ...(everyones a good bloke in the boom times..;))

Unfortunately its only when the mud hits the fan that you really find out people's true character..I only hope all those poor buggers that followed the ausfish driven hype and decided on Fisher boats actually get what they paid for..regardless of the sentimental sob stories thats being portrayed here..

( sentence deleted....... careful Scott..... LP. ) )

Scott

[northernblue]

C'mon guy's this is just a storm in a teacup......Mick & Col get along just fine, I mean Cols name is still on the top of most of the pages on the Fisher Boat site ::)

http://www.fisherboats.com.au/data/580.html
http://www.fisherboats.com.au/data/550DS.html

The truth I don't know, but Fisher II have not covered themselves in glory in the pages of Ausfish.

[Horto22]

Now that is a sexy looking boat there Horto, any pics of the inside cabin? I dont think they could possible get much better than that mate!

Cheers

Chris
Thanks Chris

Sorry but I dont have any pics inside the cabin. It a pretty standard be it large V berth with 2300 long bunks with central toilet section, with blue bunks & grey wall & roof linning.

Cheers Horto

[smasheddreams]

Hi all

A very smart man i heard say once " If you throw enough BS at the wall some of it will stick and in this case, as a analogy, its been liberally applied convincingly by a fiberglass chopper gun.

The truth will prevail over the propaganda

[White Pointer]

[quote=finding_time;1024784]

...but that isn't a question for F2...it is none of F2's business.....it is a question for the administrator. I think I have read that the administrator/receiver/liquidator (usually same person at differnent stages of burial process) is obligated to maximise the return to the creditors and this doesnt necessarily require any "public" sale...can be sold privately..or to someone wanting to start another unrelated business like F2.......The exact approach would be voted on at a creditors meeting and the liquidator is then obliged to obey that vote...? so I dont THINK there is any obligation to have an auction or public sale.

Happy to stand corrected by someone who knows the law. It is a good idea to remember that a lot of these questions are not actions that someone just "pulls out of mid air"...there is a lot of legislation which sets out very specific law to be followed.

G'day,

I just can't help myself!

A news bulletin for those who didn't catch the news at the time.

The remaining assets (i.e. remaining company assets and customers assets) that were at the business when the Administrators were appointed were counted and valued for the Administrators by an auctioneer.

Based on those valuations they were offered to the Directors on the basis that if an offer was received that was greater than the auctioneers valuation they would be sold to the highest offeror. And that's what happened.

Now I mentioned above, "the remaining company assets and customers assets". Not all the company assets were found by the Administrators and therefore they remain stolen. They might be in the same place as my instruments.

At the second creditor's meeting the Administrators answered a direct question about the intellectual property in the boat designs. They told us they had received two legal opinions that said the IP belonged to Col Svensson and his private company. This is also borne out by the existence of a third Company that bears the Fisher name, Fisher Designs Pty Limited. This Company is wholly owned by Col Svensson, directly or indirectly, and he is/was the only Director when it all turned to mud. That is one of the three major reasons stated by the Administrators for not trading the business: (1) No property to trade from (2) Insufficient assets (plant, materials, cash) to resume production (3) No control over the IP.

So what precisely is a Fisher 2 boat. It can't be any of those on the website, but it appears that is what are being offered for sale. Is this true or is it false and misleading?

White Pointer

[Mindi]

White Pointer...thanks... that's consistent with what I was saying... the administrator gets the best price he can for the assets whether by auction or negotiation.........most of the previous discusion was speculative because those details were not known.
Your scenario on the IP in the designs is not surprising... IMHO it would be unwise not to hold the IP outside F1. It does raise some interesting questions about what designs F2 is using to build boats, I guess they have worked thru the night and run up some new designs..?

[trueblue]

still no answers....


hhmmmmmmmmm.....

[cormorant]

Was the administrator ever in physical control of all the assets he listed or was it a case of just accepting an offer. I'm interested as it seems a lot can't possibly have been on the premises. I assume white pointer and others have got a full report from the admin of every asset that was sold and price attained. What was the price and what was included?

[Tim_N]

There are a lot of guys asking a lot of questions, but I think the only one who can answer them properly is the Administrators.
They know the in's and out's of the whole ordeal, and I would suggest they have done everything by the book. These guys are professionals, so give them a ring if you need to know details so badly.
IP is a very tricky one. You cannot patent a sheer line or a reverse chine or a planning strake etc, but you can Trademark a name and logo. The who, what and when of boat designs and IP rights, amongst other things is legal minefield.
There are plenty of boats that have the Fisher "look" and I can't remember anyone questioning these other builders integrity, or the legality of it all.
My 2 bobs worth for today. Ahhh, that feels better.
Tim

[finga]

If there is so much confusion over who owns the intellectual property rights or the the designs themselves to the original Fisher boats I personally would not be building from the said designs until the matter is resolved.

In this case if the designs are proven to be owned by Col and Nancy (they are the property of Fisher Designs, not Fisher boats) then what is going to happen to those boats built by Fisher MkII from these designs??
It is as obvious as the pimple on my nose the pictures of all the Fisher boats on Fisher MkII's website are all Fisher MkI boats (even Col is in the pictures :)) and the sudden quietness of Fisher Too in not answering who designed the Fisher MkII boat kinda infers the Fisher MkII's are in fact boats who designs are owned by Fisher Designs...A company Fisher MkII have afiliations or rights to use their designs.

If it's found Fisher MkII do not own the design rights to the boats they are now building then it may be decided that Fisher MkII will need to pay Col royalties or, if Col or someone else decides so, all the boats will need to retrieved and be destroyed.
How would that go to the people who paid money to Fisher MkII thinking they were getting a Fisher MkI??

I think Mr Sanderson needs to be able to answer the question a few people have asked.
Who's name is on the bottom right corner??? You know...the name of the designer.
If there is a name that is not Col or Fisher Designs then all this would have been a waste of time and needless aggravation.

[finga]

There are a lot of guys asking a lot of questions, but I think the only one who can answer them properly is the Administrators.
They know the in's and out's of the whole ordeal, and I would suggest they have done everything by the book. These guys are professionals, so give them a ring if you need to know details so badly.
IP is a very tricky one. You cannot patent a sheer line or a reverse chine or a planning strake etc, but you can Trademark a name and logo. The who, what and when of boat designs and IP rights, amongst other things is legal minefield.
There are plenty of boats that have the Fisher "look" and I can't remember anyone questioning these other builders integrity, or the legality of it all.
My 2 bobs worth for today. Ahhh, that feels better.
Tim
I'd say the people concerned should have a fair understanding on what's going on ie Col and Mick.
If the Administrators said the designs of the Fisher boats was owned by Fisher Designs (which is indicated by Nancy) why would they know what the go is with them?? they only dealt with Fisher Boats. Fisher Designs was not part of Fisher Boats was it??
You may not be able to patent a shear line or reverse chine but you can register a design which is the combination of all the basic components.
Look at Ford and Holden...a lot of little bits that are the same ie fuse and bulbs and bolts and screws, put together but can never be in the same combination or shape.
I did a quick google and found Stingray boats have a few patents on their hulls http://www.stingrayboats.com/about_us/stingray_firsts.html

[Systemic]

There is nothing I would like more than this tread to go away , with that said!
A Few very interesting statements their Finga
As I recall Col & Mick were business partners and Nancy’s response to allegations were “All under one roof”.
So is Fisher Designs one of the many hidden agendas that brought the company trust between the two to an end?
Maybe you can ask Col when your talking to him next as you seem to feel the need to muddy the waters to the best of your ability!
Then again Nancy-S who also quotes “at least everyone knows who I am” my like to say something as I’ve got a gut felling about who looking over her shoulder when she posts.

As far as the design goes all you need to do is change the height of the sides of the boat as little as 50mm and guess what different design!!!!
I’ve wanted a Fisher for years and pretty much know them inside out and 99% of them are custom build not production line like Quintrex or Macko ECT.

As far as the boats being destroyed its pretty common knowledge that Scotty from blue water used to work for Col years ago then went out on his own building boats that were very close to the fisher design.
In those day’s boats were cut by hand all that was needed was a cardboard template.
So if what you say as any merit does that mean every Bluewater boat is destined for the scrap heap?

Sorry to mention you name Scotty was just trying to make a point as you have clearly researched & developed them into what they are today “sex on a stick” every body needs to start somewhere.

I intend in the very near future to pay FB a visit and check out their new shed/set up which I hear is pretty awesome and if the same guy’s are out the back building them will seriously consider getting one because I don’t care who the owner is,its the guys in the factory that build em.

Lee.

[finga]

A Few very interesting statements their Finga
As I recall Col & Mick were business partners and Nancy’s response to allegations were “All under one roof”.
So is Fisher Designs one of the many hidden agendas that brought the company trust between the two to an end?
Maybe you can ask Col when your talking to him next as you seem to feel the need to muddy the waters to the best of your ability!
I would not know Col or Nancy if I tripped over him in the street.
I have never met him but I saw him once when they had a Fisher day at Bribey.
I'm just trying to find out who is designing the Fisher MkII boats. Nothing more and nothing less. If Mr Saunder's could answer the simple question then I'd shutup. Why the secrecy behind a bit of information that should be common knowledge.

As far as the design goes all you need to do is change the height of the sides of the boat as little as 50mm and guess what different design!!!!
I thought at least 30% content had to be changed but I'm probably wrong there and who knows if that extra 50mm on the gunnell will make the boat top heavy and it'll tip over in an oncoming swell?? That's just one example why the name of the person who designs them is so important.
I’ve wanted a Fisher for years and pretty much know them inside out and 99% of them are custom build not production line like Quintrex or Macko ECT.
So who is deciding if the alteration will be a help or hindrance or even possible?
Who is drawing these alterations as Mr Saunder's has mentioned ALL alterations need the approval of the designer.
Would you still want a Fisher if you knew it was me designing the Fisher MkII??
It could be my name on the bottom right hand corner...we don't know.


All I'm trying to find out is who is designing the Fisher MkII boats. That's all.
Why is it so hard to find out who's designing them??

[Tim_N]

Finga,
If you need to know that badly, ring Mick at work and ask him. His mobile number is 0429-043 900.
Tim

[Mindi]

Finga,
If you need to know that badly, ring Mick at work and ask him. His mobile number is 0429-043 900.
Tim

Tim I think Finga has a view on the answer and is just trying to turn over a rock which is proving a bit heavy.

[pop-eye]

There is nothing I would like more than this tread to go away , with that said!


Lee.

Why is there nothing you would like more than this tread to go away?

[Blackened]

G'day

"Would you still want a Fisher if you knew it was me designing the Fisher MkII??
It could be my name on the bottom right hand corner...we don't know." So you're the phantom Finga!

Seriously though, if it were you, I'd buy 2!

Dave

[firstlight]

Hi everyone, can I start by saying I have had a passenger side seat to this whole saga as my brother is getting his boat finished by the new fisher company, which is not far off being finished.

None of us that are getting boats finished through the new company can for the life of us understand what WP’s hidden agenda is or what his driving force is because all he has done is spent every waking hour driving us insane with all his legal jargon, constant circulation of legal sounding documents and scarring the living hell out of us. The only one who has been a calming voice and true to his word is Mick. Just remember I attended the creditors meetings in support of my brother while you raised countless issues contrary to the process, to a point we all thought you were some sort of a lawyer and going to help us, when actually you have done nothing constructive at all. The reason the adminers didn’t want to trade the company was because of the creditors, lack of material and no capital, plus they would have had to sustain a $186k loss finishing these boats, when you look back to the first meeting, the end was inevitable, we were just left hanging through an 11 week gruelling process, in one hand you instigate it was a fire sale out of the back of a ute, then you say they paid more then they would have achieved at auction??

You raised issues over the designs in one of the meetings and because of that, we have seen the drawing and it does say copyright remains the property of the designer, and through admin Mick has legally bought all the company assets and rights – there words not mine, so what is the axe you are so desperate to grind and isn’t it funny how you articulate things into legal jargon?

If what Mick sais is true and Col and Nancy tried trademark registering the company name and logo into their own names in July last year – isn’t that a funny thing to do in a partnership – kind of makes you wonder how long they had been planning the divorce, and just what is your involvement? Are you involved in all this Mr Minslow?

Just remember I am the one that has had to console my brother through this whole mess, and trust me, I have left his home on a couple of occasions very concerned for his health and wellbeing.

When you look back, the only thing that has come out of your and Nancy’s corner is conspiracy, scandal, emotional pleas and victim victim victim, nothing to hang your hat on, O and no boat.

I guess we will all find out who owns company IP when GM goes through admin and if the new owners have to start out with an old grey motor and FB ute, or will the IP be owned by the race car drivers, pit crews and mechanics so they can go and start their own GM company? I don’t thing so, only a company can own IP in this case and who ever owns the company owns the IP – and this is what Col and Nancy forfeited by letting the company go into admin, which is what gave creditors a better return

If you have a gripe with the adminers – take it up with ASIC.
If you have a gripe over the design – take it to a judge, not an uninformed jury.
If you recon something is missing – go to the coppers, because that’s what I would do.

All I can say to Mick and team is – pull it up on the back wheel and just get on with business.

Steve, when this is all said and done, we are going to simply pack up all the adminers paperwork, all of your emails and every shred of your so called confidential legal sound documentation you circulated, pack them into a briefcase, walk it to a train station and just simply put it on a train – even if it is only in our own minds, you just never know, the train might even stop at the new fisher boat company.

We have been pinned to this forum since February this year trying to make head or tails of all this crap, and to be honest, the only thing of any value was the post by sleepy_greg walking his grandson along the beach, because to me that is what life is all about.

Before you guys try and claim victory for my brother receiving his boat – don’t bother, I would like to see what you say when Big Reds gets his boat because he’s not afraid to speak his mind – he received the same treatment we did, in every aspect, even his boat.

Anyway, I’ve had my 2 bobs worth and my two budding nevus want me to do some research on fly fishing this week, now I’m registered and can ask some questions and hopefully get some good informative answers, all the very best to Mick and team, and thankyou.

[Mindi]

Hope it works out well for you Firstlight. I think most people taking part in the discussion dont have any malicious intent and are legitimately interested in what happened, to the extent that it is curiosity and learning....thats what I am here for anyway. All this stuff has to be read with a critical eye as you never know what "baggage" posters are bringing to the argument,or what interests they may have, or whether they are just interested bystanders like me and lots of others.
I couldnt help trying to change a view that administrators are "scumbags" etc which suggested a poor understanding of what roles people actually play in these company failures.
You can argue that this whole topic is the business of nobody but the palyers in the drama.... but that's not really the point of a public forum so I think this has been healthy provided you dont believe everything you read.

[finga]

Maybe you can ask Col when your talking to him next as you seem to feel the need to muddy the waters to the best of your ability!


How can I muddy the waters by asking who designs a boat???
I would have thought that would be clearing the water for all to see
I, and others, are asking why is it so hard to find out who designs a simple little boat.
I'm not beating about the bush, I'm not talking in riddles, I'm not selective in what I read so how can I be muddying the waters??


Finga,
If you need to know that badly, ring Mick at work and ask him. His mobile number is 0429-043 900.
Tim
Why waste a phone call when all some-one (not necessarily Mr Saunders) needs to do is write down a name??


Tim I think Finga has a view on the answer and is just trying to turn over a rock which is proving a bit heavy.
No, not quite right. I'm just peeved that a straight answer can not be given to a very simple question


G'day

"Would you still want a Fisher if you knew it was me designing the Fisher MkII??
It could be my name on the bottom right hand corner...we don't know." So you're the phantom Finga!

Seriously though, if it were you, I'd buy 2!

Dave
Gees you'd be sorry matey.
Who knows if they'd stay afloat for more then a day :P
Or maybe it's the start of Fisher's Floaties ;D

Any body who knows me know that I do not reckon the Fisher MkI boats were anything real special at all. I have always said there are better boat builder out there and if you look hard enough you'd find some quotes.
What's getting up my nose is the fact that we cannot get a straight answer to a simple question. And that's all.
Mind you though, I would have liked a 4X with an extended transom and transom door but they went out of production years ago.
Oh, just had a brainwave...seeing I only need to alter the freeboard a smidge I can build/copy one of those boats. Anyone got some plans or a boat I can borrow for awhile?? ::)

[Nancy_S]

For Systemic and Firstlight
Well this is interesting….. you say your brother was suffering from the impact of what happened with Fisher Boats. Well spare a thought for Col as he was devastated, the pain Sanderson caused was at times unbearable, when you trust someone and worked your guts out to make it like it was and then slander their name in an industry that you loved is not at all fair. Sanderson also accused us of not banking your brothers money which is BS also. Sanderson tells you we Trade Marked the designs in our name. Guess what it wasn’t intentional in fact I ran it past Sanderson early last year, as I had been talking to the Trade Mark guy’s when we were on Bribie Island and he was the one who pushed for it. It’s not my fault when he set up the company structures that he forgot to take us off as shareholders for Fisher Designs… is it? At the end of the day to Col it’s not a big issue… but fairs fair. If Col wanted to go out and build boats he would build a better boat.
What seems to be missing here is, for us boat building and the industry was what he knew (our boys wanted to carry on with the business) unlike Sanderson who was in drilling and knew nothing about boat building. I remember Col saying to him “that this partnership needs to work as this is all I have” unlike Sanderson, he has a drilling business. Your brother and many others before him brought our boats, because they spoke to Col, competition was out there but that only made Col look for new ways to improve on his boats. At the end of the day Sanderson’s actions instilled negativity and apprehension in the boating community and is unfair, considering we all worked hard in this industry and no one ever said it was easy.
To recap we didn’t strip the 2 sheds and the bank accounts (which I might add I could of since I had internet access and he didn’t) I on the other hand tried to freeze the accounts but he was too quick for me. We didn’t pay contractors entitlements that they weren’t entitled to, amongst other things .We didn’t after he signed the receivership papers, go to the shed the next morning at 3.00am with one of the staff and take more assets out of the business (and we have witnesses). We didn’t order aluminium in January on our account for Sanderson, (Jason did because he knew Sanderson was a credit risk and wouldn’t be able to get aluminium). So Systemic is saying it’s all under one roof…… maybe Sanderson can pay for half the aluminium bill, that would be fair.
We didn’t put in an age payable that was worth $104,000.00 for racks, boat trolleys and a few bits and pieces that were useless and never used. (that also inflated the creditors owing list)
We didn’t take the missing assets that I put up earlier which would have hopefully added to the money to pay back. We did go to the police and were told it’s civil so they couldn’t do anything We aren’t getting an income we are however having to pay the debt incurred by Sanderson and Jason for the aluminium they brought, While Sanderson has income from his other businesses he owns (what did your neighbor tell me after they took Fisher Boats….. that was number 9 company now).
And don’t forget there was also Suzuki Marine Caboolture that Max and Col had selling second hand boats and new so that also got stripped by Sanderson (so I don’t know what Max ever did to anyone).
So I should just let him get away with it and not fight, some of you don’t realize how easy it is to do what he’s done and it should not be allowed, it is not Australian.
One last thing I don’t need my husband Col to tell me what to write and if he had his way I wouldn’t be on here now. I was there Sanderson lived in my backyard and he knows that I was suspicious of him late last year, hence the reason he got rid of me…… not as he would have you believe.
When you think about it the best way for Sanderson to make the Fisher name look good is to dirtbag Col to everyone he talks to::)
Nancy
PS Systemic…...you sound an awful lot like Sanderson and you can’t spell either!!

Edit - Font size

[Stuart]

With the fishing telegraph what it is today along with word of mouth I think this Sanderson guy has dug his own grave. Everyone I know will be giving fisher boats a very wide berth and I can’t blame them. In fact Sanderson’s silence is quite deafening.

Stu

[Wahoo]

Everyone I know will be giving fisher boats a very wide berth and I can’t blame them.


yeh i didnt like them that much either, i was told that Fisher II are making a great boat now and has quite a few bookings ahead,

[smasheddreams]

The post here was a tad personal....... let's keep to the topic. phill

Ok phill rodger that

[Nancy_S]

You know Systemic the more I read your posts it has given me a really strong gut feeling that you are a bogus .::)
I thought it was Sanderson but it maybe someone close to him the way you know the boats so well and how good the guys are and everything else you seem to know.
How about you come clean and stop hiding behind your bogus name.>:(
Actually it sounds like you might even work there from what you are saying and your knowledge about Scotty ect.:o :o


Nancy Svensson


PS Be careful if the tread goes away…. you may fall ;D ;D

[Mr__Bean]

OK neutral corners please.

Time for a count...


1.



2.



3.



4.



5.



6.




7




8.





9.




OK, Box on............

[Lucky_Phill]

Thanks Darren.....


we are keeping a close eye on this. Some editing and warnings have been given.



Phill

.
.
.
.
.

[Dark invader]

::) ::) ::) ::) If it smells like fish it usually is.

That's a useless post....... at least everyone knows who I am.

Nancy
I AM SORRY NANCY BUT I WAS NOT TALKING TO YOU

[finga]

Well I need to make an apology.
To the Saunders family I'm sorry because I've been calling Mr Sanderson Mr Saunders.
I'm truly sorry about that.

Anyways seeing Mr Sanderson is so quite on saying who designs the Fisher MkII boats it can be safely assumed Fisher MkII is working off, and making boats from, the designs owned by Fisher Designs which were used for Fisher MkI boats.

If Mr Sanderson thought is was OK to use the designs he would have said we are using the same designs as the old Fisher or We are using the designs from Fisher designs or words to that effect.
If Mr Sanderson had another designer then a reasonable person would assume he would name the designer and be proud of it as his boats are getting built to these designs.
But looking at the pictures on the Fisher Boats website kinda infers they're using either outdated pictures or they have been really, really busy building boats that look like they have been built exactly like the Fisher MkI boats.
Either way Fisher MkII is advertising the exact same boat as Fisher MkI built.

Now what if he, Mr Sanderson, or Fisher MkII are not authorised to use the old designs from Fisher Designs??
What can be an outcome if it is deemed Mr Sanderson or Fisher MkII were not permitted to use the old designs from Fisher Designs??

Can the yet to be determined owners of the old designs (if it is not Fisher MkII or Mr Sanderson) demand royalties to be paid (at what amount??) or demand all the boats be destroyed if they do not want any of the boats to exist??

I don't know...but unless I had it in writing that Fisher Designs belonged to me I would not build a boat from them.

Why is it so hard to get an answer to a simple question??
A reasonable person would have to ask the same question as Professor Julius Sumner-Miller always asked...Why is this so?? And assume the worst.

[Stuart]

Finga, I think the guy has a lack of intestinal fortitude. I really don’t think he has done himself any favours at all; this site plus word of mouth will have to have a dramatic effect on his newly acquired business. Who knows, maybe Fisher 2 will be going cheap sooner than later. In the end people are kidding themselves if they think they will get the truth on this site or even face to face with the guy, I say let it lie and let Karma take its course, she has a good way of dealing with people like that.

Stu

[finga]

Yep, your dead right there I reckon Stuart.

[Mister]

Mr Sanderson, that would be Michael Sanderson otherwise known as Mick and goes by the handle of Fisher-Too. Would this be correct Mick?

Now Michael I have you on record as unable to tell me the different alloy grades that Fisher boats use in specific key elements of construction. That being hull, decking, and other typical important structural areas in construction.

This does raise one important question?

[Stuart]

This just drives home what I have always said. No matter the brand name, its the people behind the product that makes the business what it is. Mister, if he cant tell you what type of alloy is in the boat then that speaks volumes about his boat building skills. I think Mike has grossly underestimated the backlash from the public, perhaps he thought he would have a great company once Col and Nancy had gone.

Stu

[castlemaine]

Post edited / removed at members request. Phill

[tunaticer]

Mr Sanderson probably is avoiding this thread now knowing full well if he says anything it will further damage his rep and product, so I would not expect another peep from him.

If verifyable facts do come to light you can bet your balls somehow it will appear in one of the country's fishing / boating mags somewhere and bang it will be all over red rover. The media love the taste of verifyable bad press.

I am still to make heads or tails as to what exactly happened between November and March with Fisher Boats and the parties involved but I do get the assumption that it was foul play. The facts have been stymied by all the conjecture, assumptions, innuendo and foul moods to be concisely sure of events.

Are there legal proceedings in court yet to materialise over this matter?

As for the ownership of designs, that is a very curly one in this instance as all boats are customised with requests for this or that and very very seldom with a stock standard boat be pushed out the door. The base concept may be built of those plans but if the boat was not built as per the plan down to the last hole or nut it is a variation. 10% could well be made in the fitout on most boats without having to change the external plates of the hull. Copyright is very hard to adhere to in a customised supply business and even harder to defend.

I design and build all of the equipment for the plants I create, and design and create fabrication drawings for two other companies in the same field, and to be honest, I am yet to build two identical items for any two plants and I have been in the industy for 30 years come november this year.

I think the barking at the design ownership is useless in a customised boat building enterprise.

[Mindi]

Well I need to make an apology.
To the Saunders family I'm sorry because I've been calling Mr Sanderson Mr Saunders.
I'm truly sorry about that.

Anyways seeing Mr Sanderson is so quite on saying who designs the Fisher MkII boats it can be safely assumed Fisher MkII is working off, and making boats from, the designs owned by Fisher Designs which were used for Fisher MkI boats.

If Mr Sanderson thought is was OK to use the designs he would have said we are using the same designs as the old Fisher or We are using the designs from Fisher designs or words to that effect.
If Mr Sanderson had another designer then a reasonable person would assume he would name the designer and be proud of it as his boats are getting built to these designs.
But looking at the pictures on the Fisher Boats website kinda infers they're using either outdated pictures or they have been really, really busy building boats that look like they have been built exactly like the Fisher MkI boats.
Either way Fisher MkII is advertising the exact same boat as Fisher MkI built.

Now what if he, Mr Sanderson, or Fisher MkII are not authorised to use the old designs from Fisher Designs??
What can be an outcome if it is deemed Mr Sanderson or Fisher MkII were not permitted to use the old designs from Fisher Designs??

Can the yet to be determined owners of the old designs (if it is not Fisher MkII or Mr Sanderson) demand royalties to be paid (at what amount??) or demand all the boats be destroyed if they do not want any of the boats to exist??

I don't know...but unless I had it in writing that Fisher Designs belonged to me I would not build a boat from them.

Why is it so hard to get an answer to a simple question??
A reasonable person would have to ask the same question as Professor Julius Sumner-Miller always asked...Why is this so?? And assume the worst.


Finga...I've got a really serious bone to pick with you.......he said "why is IT so..?" and if you are old enough to know about Julius Sumner Miller you should be in a nursing home and probably so should I.....LOL...and you just said "infers" in place of "implies" to wind me up dint ya..! (are you mad yet..?)
He isnt going to answer the design questions...thats enough answer in itself I would have thought. Catch a fish on the weegend.

[PinHead]

Finga...I've got a really serious bone to pick with you.......he said "why is IT so..?" and if you are old enough to know about Julius Sumner Miller you should be in a nursing home and probably so should I.....LOL...and you just said "infers" in place of "implies" to wind me up dint ya..! (are you mad yet..?)
He isnt going to answer the design questions...thats enough answer in itself I would have thought. Catch a fish on the weegend.

I can remember him getting the egg into the milk bottle...but I bet he could not get it out..now I am showing my age.

[smasheddreams]

Hi all

I personally,with great honesty, wish the very best possible outcome for all hull owners for where ever they may get there boats completed as long as they get completed. In saying that i feel we can all do without the BS from the Fisher No2 camp by swanning around taking credit in finishing such boats for a problem they, and nobody but themselves created in the first place.


I have my doubts that Firstlight is who he says he is but for the benefit of the doubt and for the sake of a argument i make this reply.

You ungrateful um..confused person

You state
" conspiracy, scandal'. Where did you get your information to come to that conclusion, hang on let me guess

"concerned for his health and wellbeing" How do you think i feel after saving up for 3.5 years working at least 12hour days 6 day weeks just to be able to buy that motor.then be told at the very begining i have 0 in the dollar return.

"walk it to a train station and just simply put it on a train "
To finish off your fairytale, a white masked man,with nothing to lose and calling himself " V "may board a train with more than just paperwork and go express all stations.

................


yeh i didnt like them that much either, i was told that Fisher II are making a great boat now and has quite a few bookings ahead,

Didn't you mean to say , making great copyright infringed boats, as Sanderson cannot simply inform us all of the new Fisher design as it doesn't even exist.
.....................


Finga,
If you need to know that badly, ring
Tim

I am sure if Finga wanted a good reliable dose of BS to save his life he would be straight on the phone .
..............

It seems a couple of you hull owners are only caring about yourself, whilst at the same time believing the word of a silver tongue to actually see for yourself the true bottom line here. I shouldn't even have to say it except there is simply no justifications for what he has perpetrated. I think this may apply by saying "two wrongs don't make a right"

The above also somewhat applies to the few non hull owners/creditors as well who have jumped on board the propaganda wagon probably IMO due to previous differences with the original Fisher.

The thing i am fully aware of that has eventuated from this whole saga, is that it goes well beyond my loss.

Anyhow hope everyone catches a good feed on the weekend

Cheers
SD

[firstlight]

Hi Mindy, thankyou for your reply yesterday, a very good read and well said

I don't know how to or how so many people thanked us for our usefull post but, thankyou one and all in return.

The only reason we came on this forum was to tell our side because this has just been character assassination of the worst kind, and i'm sure we have come along way from burning people at the stake for guilt by association.

I only wish everyone in business the very best in these challenging times

[Nancy_S]

Nancy
Thankyou for clearing up the trademark issue because that was a sticky point for us, I understand, you just went out shopping one day and accidentally trademarked everything into your own names, an innocent mystake, sort of like slipping over in the shower - happens to me on weekends Ha ha ha

Go and get fed some more BS mate , you don't know me or Col so don't bother saying anything on here that Sanderson has told you..... I have heard it all before.>:(

BTW Don't start with character assassinations we didn't start this..... your mates Payne and Sanderson did, we were the ones assassinated.

Nancy

[finding_time]

Hi all

I personally,with great honesty, wish the very best possible outcome for all hull owners for where ever they may get there boats completed as long as they get completed. In saying that i feel we can all do without the BS from the Fisher No2 camp by swanning around taking credit in finishing such boats for a problem they, and nobody but themselves created in the first place.


I have my doubts that Firstlight is who he says he is but for the benefit of the doubt and for the sake of a argument i make this reply.

You ungrateful um..confused person

You state
" conspiracy, scandal'. Where did you get your information to come to that conclusion, hang on let me guess

"concerned for his health and wellbeing" How do you think i feel after saving up for 3.5 years working at least 12hour days 6 day weeks just to be able to buy that motor.then be told at the very begining i have 0 in the dollar return.

"walk it to a train station and just simply put it on a train "
To finish off your fairytale, a white masked man,with nothing to lose and calling himself " V "may board a train with more than just paperwork and go express all stations.

................



Didn't you mean to say , making great copyright infringed boats, as Sanderson cannot simply inform us all of the new Fisher design as it doesn't even exist.
.....................



I am sure if Finga wanted a good reliable dose of BS to save his life he would be straight on the phone .
..............

It seems a couple of you hull owners are only caring about yourself, whilst at the same time believing the word of a silver tongue to actually see for yourself the true bottom line here. I shouldn't even have to say it except there is simply no justifications for what he has perpetrated. I think this may apply by saying "two wrongs don't make a right"

The above also somewhat applies to the few non hull owners/creditors as well who have jumped on board the propaganda wagon probably IMO due to previous differences with the original Fisher.

The thing i am fully aware of that has eventuated from this whole saga, is that it goes well beyond my loss.

Anyhow hope everyone catches a good feed on the weekend

Cheers
SD


Smasheddreams

You make some really good points mate!This is how i see the saga!!

In all my time on Ausfish i never have heard from a unhappy Fisher boats customer, all the boats were finished and the new owners were on this site with the story of the build and pics of there new babies!!!;) Plenty of people i know had there boats modified by Fisher boats and brought outboards from them again with no unhappy people, he was obviously doing something right! This went on for what, 7 years then not long after he gets a new partner and within 6 months the new partner takes over saying Col was running the business into the ground and taking it in the wrong direction! ::) What the?? Then he moves the business when Col on holidays. ( What no phone call to sort out the issues first!!!) Then a whole lot of boats aren't finished so Mr Nice guy fisher-too says he'll finish them!! ( Well durrr, after all YOU cause the issue, it might have been better on your part to talk to you partner about your concerns with the business, rather than take the whole thing over in the night with Col away) You took the business, you finish the boats imho!! And now you cannot tell any future customers who might read this thread what sort of boat the'll be getting and who designed it?? Again What the??? I'm with Stuart , i just wouldn't be dealing with this mob!

Ian

Ps.
Just like Finga i've never been a huge fan of Fishers or any plate boat and i'm sure my little chips at them have given Col the odd stomach ulcer over the years ( do a search and you see this to be true!) But one thing was very clear to me , anyone who brought a Fisher before this nonsense was very happy and proud of there boat and that's a credit to Col and Nancy!!;)

[smasheddreams]

Nancy I think you are talking to ghost


Hi Mindy, thankyou for your reply yesterday, a very good read and well said

I don't know how to or how so many people thanked us for our usefull post but, thankyou one and all in return.

The only reason we came on this forum was to tell our side because this has just been character assassination of the worst kind, and i'm sure we have come along way from burning people at the stake for guilt by association.

I only wish everyone in business the very best in these challenging times

Please explain to everyone who we is? . Your brother i presume ,who is your brother then? you previously mentioned

I would like to see what you say when Big Reds gets his boat because he’s not afraid to speak his mind – . Well most of us know who Big Reds is , what about yourself/brother. As it stands this profile has the smell of No.2 all over it.
Please correct me if i am wrong

[Tim_N]

Mods,
Please consider closing this thread.
It has gone on long enough and is doing nothing constructive to the Fisher clientelle, or other plate boat manufacturers.
Calls to my office, of which I supply some of these manufacturers, confirms this.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Tim

[Buddy Mania]

In all my time on Ausfish i never have heard from a unhappy Fisher boats customer, all the boats were finished and the new owners were on this site with the story of the build and pics of there new babies!




But one thing was very clear to me , anyone who brought a Fisher before this nonsense was very happy and proud of there boat and that's a credit to Col and Nancy!!

For the record, I'm an unhappy Fisher boat owner.

Did Col build me a boat that was a credit to him and Nancy? NO.

Did Col build me a boat on time in accordance with the construction agreement? NO.

What I got was a half finished boat complete with some significant problems and poor workmanship. When I've got some pics organised, I'll post some bits and pieces with a t-square in frame. Believe me, the pics will speak for themselves.

Who was running the show when that work was produced? Col Svensson.

When I read posts here defending Col and his product, how do you reckon I feel?
When I read posts from the guy who was promised a boat by Col before Xmas and got his boat by Xmas, how do you reckon I feel about the boat that was promised to me by October?

As far as I'm concerned, the BS on these threads regarding who the good guy is and who the bad guy is constitutes nothing but a waste of bandwidth. I can tell you all one thing for sure ... I wasted a lot of time in this saga trying to work out who the bad guy was. The mistake I made was trying to find the bad guy by working out who the good guy was. I never found the good guy. When I stopped looking for the good guy, things became much clearer.

I intend to detail my experiences through this drama, but am not in a position to do so at this time.

Don't think I'm unfairly targetting Col in this, I'm not. The product he produced for me after taking my money has well and truely earned the detailed post I will produce in due course. And as for his former partner, he's earned a whack as well, and same will be delivered in the same post.

I acknowledge that Fisher I used to produce some awsome boats and that there's any number of happy boat owners cruising about in Fishers. I'm not saying that all you happy boat owners are driving pieces of crud. Why do you reckon I went with Fisher in the first place?

I am pleased for those other boat owners that are receiving a boat through Fisher II. Contrary to some of the crud being regurgitated here, Fisher II was not obliged to recognise any of the payments made to the former company which no longer exists. Fisher II was not obligated to stand by commitments made by the former company either. To not do so was probably committing business suicide, but people have got to realise that Fisher II has already gone above and beyond for some of the creditors. I'm not happy about the treatment I received, but I'm pleased for people like Big Reds, Dazbax, and others who look like receiving a decent product.

I wish I had never ever heard of Fisher Boats or Col Svensson. Having been dragged into this mess, I wish that my boat hadn't been started under Col's operation and instead was commenced under Fisher II like another boat that I'm aware of that is top notch from all accounts. Mine's not, and Fisher II proposed to paint it, fit it out and ship if off "as is", and that's what I'm most cranky with them about. Well that, and having less-than any customer service commitment, and for treating me and my business with a complete and utter lack of respect.

More to come.

For anyone who wants to debate this issue with me, you'll wanna get your facts straight 'cos I've got nothing to hide and no agenda other than to tell it how it is. If anything I've got to say paints anyone in a bad light, they've earned it.


Buddy

[smasheddreams]

Mods,
Please consider closing this thread.
It has gone on long enough and is doing nothing constructive to the Fisher clientelle, or other plate boat manufacturers.
Calls to my office, of which I supply some of these manufacturers, confirms this.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Tim

Starting to hit a nerve eh Tim . That is purely your opinion that this thread has gone on long enough and is doing nothing constructive as i beg to differ on many fronts. I'm sure if its affecting anybody it can be only affecting those people who have done the wrong thing. If other plate boat manufacturers have a issue with this thread i am sure they are quite capable and big enough of speaking up for themselves.

[Tim_N]

My point , Smasheddreams, whoever you may be, is that this type of thread can and does influence a lot of people.
Part of that influence is, portraying the plate boat industry, a small niche market, provided by plenty of dedicated hard working people, in a bad light.
For example, the issues of progressive payments, design, integrity, quality etc etc.
Mind you, the people I was speaking with today were extremely busy as a result of the fall out, but they were not too happy their businesses associated with this saga.
Other businesses should not have to get on a public forum to justify themselves.
I think you may find that the Ausfish Owner has been contacted regarding this very matter.
A solution I also heard today, and one which may make plenty of poeple feel better, is to get all parties involved in the Fisher mess, owners, staff, suppliers, administrators, debtors, creditors etc etc and lock them all up together for 48 hours with nothing more than boxing gloves, and let them sort it out. Has got some merit!
Do you really think public blood letting is the way to go? It may make you feel better, but.....
Tim

[PinHead]

My point , Smasheddreams, whoever you may be, is that this type of thread can and does influence a lot of people.
Part of that influence is, portraying the plate boat industry, a small niche market, provided by plenty of dedicated hard working people, in a bad light.
For example, the issues of progressive payments, design, integrity, quality etc etc.
Mind you, the people I was speaking with today were extremely busy as a result of the fall out, but they were not too happy their businesses associated with this saga.
Other businesses should not have to get on a public forum to justify themselves.
I think you may find that the Ausfish Owner has been contacted regarding this very matter.
A solution I also heard today, and one which may make plenty of poeple feel better, is to get all parties involved in the Fisher mess, owners, staff, suppliers, administrators, debtors, creditors etc etc and lock them all up together for 48 hours with nothing more than boxing gloves, and let them sort it out. Has got some merit!
Do you really think public blood letting is the way to go? It may make you feel better, but.....
Tim

Tim...bugger the manufacturers and their progress payment schemes..let them use their money until they have a finished product to sell..as I have stated previously..I purchased a boat on a mere $5000 deposit...and nothing more to pay untril the finished item arrived here.
Other businesses do not have to do anything to justify themselves if they believe their business is operating satisfactorily.

Oh..I get it..this is a fishing and boating forum etc...therefore people cannot state their opinions on products in these fields..I don't see Shimano or Daiwa or any other rod or reel manufacturer coming on here when someone says something about their products.

tell the other manufacturers that if they do not like what peoples opinions are on their industry then perhaps they should look at changing to meet the purchasers' expectations...because believe me..the purchasers' do have expectations they expect to be met.

Design..how many of the plate boats are designed or certified by a qualified naval architect or whoever has the qualifications to do that ?

Quality..many threads on here can attest to the good or bad quality

Integrity...that one should be left alone I guess

As for those involved in the Fisher saga..see ya lawyer or deal with it in whatever way suits the individual.

[Tim_N]

Okay,
So I'll take this as 1 vote for Greg to keep it going.
Anyone else?
Tim

[PinHead]

I really couldn't give a rats if it goes on or not...I have no financial interest with either party in the saga.

[dodgyone]

My point , Smasheddreams, whoever you may be, is that this type of thread can and does influence a lot of people.
Part of that influence is, portraying the plate boat industry, a small niche market, provided by plenty of dedicated hard working people, in a bad light.
For example, the issues of progressive payments, design, integrity, quality etc etc.
Tim


Sure does. From someone that is looking at a new boat in the next year or so I am definately looking elsewhere. Plenty of good news storys around.

[cormorant]

Mods,
Please consider closing this thread.
It has gone on long enough and is doing nothing constructive to the Fisher clientelle, or other plate boat manufacturers.
Calls to my office, of which I supply some of these manufacturers, confirms this.
I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling this way.
Tim



Tim

If your clients produce a good product and run a good business nothing can hurt em

Get them to look at ways to ensure they and their clients money and goods are secure and they get 10 points and more clients. Happy ones.

A thread pointing out risks in the way some plate builders run their business can do nothing but good as your clients can show how they are different.

Hope your clients work it out

[White Pointer]

My point , Smasheddreams, whoever you may be, is that this type of thread can and does influence a lot of people.
Part of that influence is, portraying the plate boat industry, a small niche market, provided by plenty of dedicated hard working people, in a bad light.
For example, the issues of progressive payments, design, integrity, quality etc etc.
Mind you, the people I was speaking with today were extremely busy as a result of the fall out, but they were not too happy their businesses associated with this saga.
Other businesses should not have to get on a public forum to justify themselves.
I think you may find that the Ausfish Owner has been contacted regarding this very matter.
A solution I also heard today, and one which may make plenty of poeple feel better, is to get all parties involved in the Fisher mess, owners, staff, suppliers, administrators, debtors, creditors etc etc and lock them all up together for 48 hours with nothing more than boxing gloves, and let them sort it out. Has got some merit!
Do you really think public blood letting is the way to go? It may make you feel better, but.....
Tim

G'day,

Smasheddreams is a creditor of Fisher Boats Pty Limited for a proven amount approaching $16,000. He is perfectly entitled, on any thread about Fisher Boats, to recount his experience.

I am a creditor of Fisher Boats Pty Limited. I got ripped for over $30,000. I believe that I am entitled to post on this thread and recount my experience as well.

Both of us put our hands up and were elected to the Creditors Committee in Administration and we stomped up again when the Companies were placed in Liquidation and were elected to the Committee of Inspection.

I have three main objectives in pursuing this:

1. I want the matter in Court. I believe that the manner in which the business ceased trading, the manner in which it continued to take customer's money in December 2008 breached the Corporations Act 2001 on four counts.

2. I want justice for creditors. Nothing pleases me more than to see hull owners get their boats finished. That's the only reason this thread exists. But the creditors are not just the customers. I am still concerned about the termination of the employees of the Companies and whether they received their entitlements. It's not too late to lodge a claim.

3. It made my own investigations into the background of the owners and Directors of Fisher Boats Pty Limited and its related Companies and discovered some features about the people involved and the construction of the Companies. If I had done this before I paid my money - I wouldn't have. If I had made a decision to buy a few months earlier I would have got one of the last true Fisher Boats. I want to stop anyone else making the mistake that I did.

Enough!

White Pointer

[Tim_N]

There is nothing wrong with the way these guys run their own show, that's the point. Why should they have to justify themselves because Fisher fell over?
Why should their designs be questioned, and whether or not they have been designed correctly by a naval architect, and who is the architect, or isn't that a copy etc etc
How are you people getting on with Fisher?
It is good that the consumer is now aware of how this industry runs with regards to the payment system etc but this industry will always operate this way.
The thread is about How are you people getting on with Fisher?
It has turned into a sideshow about the industry, and has got to a quite personal level regarding the 2 major players, their past histories, and whether or not some contributors are just a bogus, who is a AH, or a DH or is full of BS.
So, what has any of this go to do with How are you people getting on with Fisher?, well good, some not so.
That is the whole point of this thread. Not the rest of it.
Hence my suggestion to question it continuing.
Tim

[mod5]

From an administrative/moderative perspective there is no intention of closing this thread.

[Tim_N]

Fair enough mod5, your call and I can live with that, but how about you keep out the personal AH, BS type of stuff, or how someones past is shed in a poor light (example refer post 220), and the rumor and inuendo?
Tim

[cormorant]

I read post 220 as what happens in business over many years. Not necessarily about the boats , construction or quality but more likey a supplier or employee in past years. There would be very few businesmen or women who in 7 years of business had not messed around a supplier , upset and employee or caused a banker some grief as that is business with uncertainties.

Every businessman has their own idea as to what business and ethics are be it the supply of good batch of metal or the payment on time as agreed or delivery of final product . Any link in that chain will create a reputation of some sort. Quality supplier, quick payer, consistant quality, bad accounts , on time, overcharger or whatever

I have a reputation for not supplying goods to anyone who has ever been late in payment ever again even when they are with another company. Some people hate me for it but those that understand it and still get my goods and pay on time appreciate my pricing , service and hassle free way of doing business. The others call me a &unt. I have regained posession of goods not paid for and put people through the courts for less than the lawyers have cost me and withheld goods with minor balances owing. That's my principals and ethics pay for it and you own it.

Reputation is depending on who you ask

I'll take my reputation from the people who pay their bills on time and the others can say what they want and if anyone asks I'll tell them the truth about a bill not paid.

Guess it depends who the poster of 220 was talking to but if it isn't first hand and backed up t is just idle chat be it truth or a disgruntled supplier or customer who knows??

[northernblue]

I can remember him getting the egg into the milk bottle...but I bet he could not get it out..now I am showing my age.

Getting the egg out is easy, h2o & bicarb
If only this thread and the truth was as easy ;)

[Mindi]

There is nothing wrong with the way these guys run their own show, that's the point. Why should they have to justify themselves because Fisher fell over?
Why should their designs be questioned, and whether or not they have been designed correctly by a naval architect, and who is the architect, or isn't that a copy etc etc
How are you people getting on with Fisher?
It is good that the consumer is now aware of how this industry runs with regards to the payment system etc but this industry will always operate this way.
The thread is about How are you people getting on with Fisher?
It has turned into a sideshow about the industry, and has got to a quite personal level regarding the 2 major players, their past histories, and whether or not some contributors are just a bogus, who is a AH, or a DH or is full of BS.
So, what has any of this go to do with How are you people getting on with Fisher?, well good, some not so.
That is the whole point of this thread. Not the rest of it.
Hence my suggestion to question it continuing.
Tim

Tim

No matter how you spin it, only someone with something to hide stands to gain from closing this thread. With all due respect the idea that this sorry saga reflects badly on other reputable small boat builders is just nonsense and implies that the customers are stupid. This thread has made us even less stupid. I suggest that after this anyone who has read it will approach getting a boat built in a much more professional and cautious way asking lots of questions and following up references...and that is good for the industry not bad. The thread will die naturally soon. Top marks to the mods IMHO.

[DR]

My main interest in this thread is that hopefully we will find out the truth about the closing of the factory & moving of assets while the Svensons were away on holidays. To me that is the crux of the whole saga..then we will know for certain who is in the right & had no need for 15 pages of entertainment, 2 would have done the job..but I am not holding my breath, as I doubt we will ever know unless it gets to court..

[Buddy Mania]

My main interest in this thread is that hopefully we will find out the truth about the closing of the factory & moving of assets while the Svensons were away on holidays. To me that is the crux of the whole saga.

Well it would be the crux of the whole sage if you're already convinced that one party is totally "in the right" and the other is totally "in the wrong". It would be the the crux of the whole sage if you conveniently ignore the punters who were aggreived by the person you're seeking to exhonerate.

I've already posted a snapshot of my experiences dealing with Col Svensson's Fisher Boats, and I'm just a little bit surprised that seemingly nobody's interested in that at all. Instead, the charade that is presenting Col as the patron saint of boat builders continues on.

[smasheddreams]

Hi Buddy
You are welcome to call me today to discuss this matter if u like . Or can i call you?

[Tim_N]

If people think that they are going to solve the problems associated with Fisher on a Chat room, find out why the takeover took place, find out who designs what, find out where the Smasheddreams and WhitePointer money went etc etc, then they are kidding themselves.
As Pinhead pointed out, the police and/or the court rooms are the true solution to this. I have a feeling there is way more to this than any of us realise.
This is going around and around and getting nowhere.
There are plenty of opinions on the matter, and that is great, that is what this sort of chat room is for.
I have nothing to hide, I have no interest in Fisher V1 or Fisher V2, except I know the players and I own a Fisher and have done for 8 years and I also don't think customers are stupid, I'm one of them.
I feel enough has been said and it time to move on.
How are you people getting on with Fisher?
Well the answer is some good, but Smasheddreams, Buddy Mania and WhitePointer aren't getting on so well. Their problems will not be solved here. About all wewill get is more mud slinging and go round again.
I'm off to chase a few Snapper around, will let you know how I get on.
Tim

[DR]

Well it would be the crux of the whole sage if you're already convinced that one party is totally "in the right" and the other is totally "in the wrong". It would be the the crux of the whole sage if you conveniently ignore the punters who were aggreived by the person you're seeking to exhonerate.

how the heck can you read that into what I posted???

for instance.. the new mob may have very well done the right thing to save their investment from the svenssons by doing a midnight flit... (meaning, they did what was right)

on the other hand, they may have done it purely to gain ownership of the company in an underhanded way!!(meaning they did what was wrong)

to me that is a 50-50 each way thing, not already deciding who is right or wrong..

I could look at your posts & probably assume you are connected with the new fisher boats & are running interference for them, that would be making up my mind who is right or wrong. But I don't really care, I am just interested in the outcome as I have seen this kind of thing before & for my own personal reasons, it interests me..:-*

[Buddy Mania]

You mean like voyeurism?

I may have read something between the lines of your post that wasn't there, and if that is the case I apologise.

I guess I'm just getting pretty sick of people trying to paint one side or the other as the good guys and the other side as being the root of all evil ... especially when plenty of the commentators have not been involved in this saga at all and are therefore making their judgements out of thin air.

I'm also getting pretty sick of people framing the problem as the fate of the company and its partners, when the human face of the problem is actually in those that have been misled and manipulated by one side or the other, or both.

Edit: And for the record, I am not involved with either side and my only interest is my own. I am certainly not running interference for Fisher II ... I recently took steps to remove my half finised boat from that operation on the grounds that:

I was totally unsatisfied with their customer service, if you could call it that,
their lack of commitment to transparent and open communication with me,
the lack of progress on my boat (i.e. when other boats that commenced under the new operation in January overtook mine in terms of progress despite mine originally being scheduled for delivery in October), and
the fact that I couldn't trust anything they told me.And that was all before I fully realised the very very poor workmanship and the significant problems that had been created in what had been built (under Col Svensson's regime, I might add). I can't hold Fisher II accountable for the poor workmanship and the state of my boat in December 2008, but what I hold Fisher II accountable for is the fact that despite having the expertise on hand to identify and rectify the many problems associated with it, they did three eights of four fifths of Sweet FA in the five months my boat sat idly by in the new workshop. I'm also not best pleased hearing that my boat was "about to go to the paint shop anytime now", knowing that a whole bunch of significant issues were about to get glossed over and handed on to me. Furthermore, given that practically Sweet FA was ever done to my boat by Fisher II (inspite of many many conversations), there was nothing stopping it going to paint and being fitted out months ago.

Pretty big edit, but I want to be crystal clear about my position in all of this. You never know, that might even set a trend and other posters might declare their agendas too (ha).

Here's me being crystal clear:

1. Would I ever deal with Col Svensson, or any business involving Col Svensson, ever again? Based on my experience with him, I wouldn't let him make me a sandwich, let alone a boat.

2. Would I ever deal with Mick Sanderson, or any business involving Mick Sanderson, ever again? Based on my dealings with Fisher II, I could not in good faith return for future business, nor could I recommend Fisher II to anybody else.