Hydrastar electric brake controller fitting

[Tangles]

ANyone know a good auto electrician to fit one and also whats a the best brand?
I live at Viccie Pt,, what $ should i expect?

cheers
Mike

[Chimo]

Tekonsha

Look at the web site, it lists compatible models.

Got mine fitted at Burleigh

Need to have correct gauge wire and a separate power feed to the the hydrastar.

Also dont forget the resetable 30amp protection at the battery in the vehicle.

Cheers
Chimo

[Mr__Bean]

G'Day Mike,

Need to also check compatability with your vehicle for late model cars.

Some have specific requirements now due to the complex electronic controls on their braking systems.

- Darren

[oldboot]

In car electronics should not present a problem all most of the comtrolers need is power earth and a brake light input.
The enertia thing does the rest.

I have a tenkoncha and it is beaut, energex have been spec'ing tenkoncha for years.

There are a few about that have specific ( switchable ) curves for electric over hydraulic systems.

There are a few pretty decent controllers arround. hayman rece are prety reputable......I've seen a mates tandem PA trailer and waggon with smoke comming of 8 wheels and stopping straight and level and in a big hurry under controll of a hayman reece

There are a few... UUUGGLY ones too.

Give finga a call or grand marlin.

cheers

[Mr__Bean]

In car electronics should not present a problem all most of the comtrolers need is power earth and a brake light input.
The enertia thing does the rest.




I thought so too, until a guy at work tried to get one installed in his new Calais. Holden price was very high so he shopped around all the major caravan places and they confirmed he needed the one Holden specified.

Similar thing with another that just picked up his new Pajero, they put it on for him at delivery but it had to be a specific model for the Pajero braking system. It was a Techonsha but they specified which one.

It seems that it isn't as simple as just supplying power from the brake light anymore on some of the vehicles with computer controlled braking systems.

- Darren

[FNQCairns]

Could that be related in any way to a loom? if not sheesh! even simple breaking systems are getting complicated.

cheers fnq

[Roughasguts]

I also have the tekonsha Prodigy, I bought that one cause it's about the only one that works in reverse! well or so I'm lead to beleive.

Anyway it does work in reverse which would be handy if being dragged in to the water by your load down a ramp.

I installed mine my self you need some 6mm wire to carry the voltage with out drop to the brakes and also a 20 Amp auto resettable circuit breaker.

Hardest part is finding a nice spot to mount the controller.

Some vehicles EG: Ford territory can not be hooked up to the brake light switch as doing that upsets the Fords cruise control, so brake wire tap it is for most vehicles.

[Tangles]

i have a 2003 patrol
mike

[SUPERDAFF]

ANyone know a good auto electrician to fit one and also whats a the best brand?
I live at Viccie Pt,, what $ should i expect?

cheers
Mike
Mike cost depends on your vehicle and then are many serious traps for the unwary. As well, some Hydrastar models are incompatible with some controllers; some other models work across the range.

Check out the Hydrastar web site for a full list - very easy to use and work out. They're located over at Lawnton. Web site is hydrastar.com.au (I use a Tekonsha Prodigy with a Hydrastar HBA12 705700 - note, this controller does not work with earlier series HBA12's - the key figure is whether it is a 700 or later series (the last three digits in the code).

This combo towing an Outsider 625 with 175hp long range tanks, fresh water supply etc etc etc and topping out at perhaps 2700kg is magic (as is the CruiseCraft).

As an example, some issues which you (and others) need to consider:

If you are using a trailer with LED trailer lights and own a European 4WD such as a Touareg, you will need to also purchase a load simulator to create a higher electrical draw to prevent the car's computer systems from causing the trailer lights to strobe. (This happens because the computer is constantly checking for blown bulbs - because LEDs draw so little power, it reads them as an open circuit and it is the computer pulsing that causes you lights to constantly flash on an off).

In the case of a Touareg, the system has to be wired around the entire vehicle (computer module is midway down right hand side of the car; brake pick-ups are at rear right; battery is at mid-left under the seat. Therefore it costs a bucket to install - try around $600 - $800 or so. The used to pre-wire, but don't any more. On the other hand, if you have a Landcruiser that is pre-wired, it can take less than an hour.

In BUS-installed vehicles (think of it in terms of being "pre-wired" at the factory, car dealerships and auto electricians both can handle. In ones not pre-wired, start thinking specialist auto electrician rather than dealership. Arrow Caravans and Towbars, 45 Robinson Road East, Virginia, Brisbane phone (07) 3630 8181 are absolutely brilliant on problem cases and difficult brands such as the Europeans where the resistance generated by the length of wire, can be enough to throw the system in problem mode.
Leo at United Brake and Clutch at Coorparoo (07) 3397 0977 is a gem on Landcruisers and many other makes.
This LED issue is going to increase - one of the smartest guys in the game has just been headhunted by Hayman Reece to work for them as their trouble-shooter - so they're worth a call in problem cases. Trust this helps you and others.
DAFF

[phewy]

Go Tekonsha Prodigy. Forget the rest if you want smooth, hassle free operation. Self adjusting, do it once when installing and check every now and again hooked up or not...no more trial and error getting adj right once hooked up and driving away. Slides into pocket with clip on wiring harness for easy removal when not needed, has instant boost button for whenever you feel you temporary need more braking power (three different stages of boost), as mentioned, will work when reversing, digital read out of voltage to trailer and connection indication and also codes for faults.
Well worth the extra $75 over the standard Tekonsha Voyager or Hayes Energiser, the other 2 popular models.

We retail the Prodigy for $205 compared to the other standard inertia activated ones at $130. Steer clear of non inertia activated ones...ie - hayman reese., accutrac etc. These controllers are time activated units only.

One thing when installing. ALWAYS get the earth straight from the battery, never from the body under the dash as they are very earth sensitive. 4mm wiring is ample for single or tandem electric brakes. Over 20yrs of installing controllers to vehicles have always used 4mm fig8 wiring from controller to battery, and from controller to rear plug. Use two wires to back, one for the feed to trailer from controller output (blue wire to pin 5) and the other for stop light power back to the controller (connect with red wire in pin 6 in plug) and back to red on the controller. As mentioned some cars you must never connect to the stop light switch under the dash, so we always connect it at the plug. Easier anyway...when your getting my age, crawling under todays cars dashboards is getting more and more painful...lol.
And yes, a 20 or 30 amp self resetting circuit breaker is a must. NO fuses.

Takes about an hour to fit. Bit longer on some more difficult cars. Always if possible run wiring inside of car under trims. If not possible, run through chassis rail covered with split tubing.
Give installing yourself ago...easy job.
Or get it done elsewhere for about $350 for prodigy supplied and fitted.

[phewy]

i have a 2003 patrol
mike

Missed this post.
An '03 Patrol is a very easy car to wire up for eb's. No hassles or electrical gremlins at all.
All wiring run inside car. Easy trim removal, easy access thru firewall. Would take about 45 - 50min go to whoa.
If you were a bit closer...lol... I could fit for you after hours for about $80 inc fittings req (wiring, breaker, connections etc). S/fit prodigy for about $260.

[Tangles]

Paul,
thanks for the info, seems its a minefield out there for this sort of stuff

mike

[oldboot]

I think pulling power from the brake lights is rough regardless of the age of the car. It is only the nasty 3 wire units that do that.

I can see that there may be problems with some of the rediculousy complicated modern cars.......I am not surpriesed but I am disapointed that all these prime tow cars dont have some for of output for the brake controller.
I think I'll stay with simple cars;D

reading what is involved with some of these exzotic cars, fitting a second brake light switch is looking like a viable option.

In the greater sceme of things $205 for the prodigy sounds like a bargin to me.
I've had a voyager now for about 10 years and they were about $120 back then.

Have hayman reece changed there system? I thaught they had a rolling ball inertia sensor. or do they sell different models these days.

I am amazed how tight some people get.......and wont pay for a decent controller or cut corners and use light wire or whatever......

cheers

[phewy]

They (decent, well known controllers at least) don't "pull power" from the brake lights as such, just using as a switch. Like a relay. Still drawers all power straight from the battery. What are these "3 wire" jobs you mention oldboot?

The hayman reese controller that has been around for years like this one....

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/consumer/products/brakecontrollers/index.htm

...is a non pendulum controller. Adjustable time delay. Unfortunately very popular. Highly un recommended for towing larger trailers/caravans.


edit. A bit of a google has revealed Hayman reese now have a inertia activated controller on the market. Guardian. Good to see.
Anybody with the older non inertia unit....ditch it for something better.

note - I just read on hayman reese's site that they recommend using 3mm (or larger) wire for installing.

[finga]

One thing when installing. ALWAYS get the earth straight from the battery, never from the body under the dash as they are very earth sensitive. 4mm wiring is ample for single or tandem electric brakes. Over 20yrs of installing controllers to vehicles have always used 4mm fig8 wiring from controller to battery, and from controller to rear plug. Use two wires to back, one for the feed to trailer from controller output (blue wire to pin 5) and the other for stop light power back to the controller (connect with red wire in pin 6 in plug) and back to red on the controller. As mentioned some cars you must never connect to the stop light switch under the dash, so we always connect it at the plug. Easier anyway...when your getting my age, crawling under todays cars dashboards is getting more and more painful...lol.
And yes, a 20 or 30 amp self resetting circuit breaker is a must. NO fuses.

Good idea about the running a wire back from the back for the stop signal.
Sometimes it's a pain in the guts and arms (because that's what gets stuck) to find the right signal wire or the right wire on the brakes switch/es.
Might save disturbing something you shouldn't too :-[

It might cost $5 in wire to pickup the brake signal down the back but save an hour or so labour especially seeing you'll be taking the bundle to the socket anyways
I always take an auxiliary power wire down to the back at the same time as well- seeing that everything is open and the power more then likely needed is needed for break-a-ways, fridges or boat winches.
03 Patrols are good to work on. :)

[oldboot]

They (decent, well known controllers at least) don't "pull power" from the brake lights as such, just using as a switch. Like a relay. Still drawers all power straight from the battery. What are these "3 wire" jobs you mention oldboot?

The hayman reese controller that has been around for years like this one....

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/consumer/products/brakecontrollers/index.htm

...is a non pendulum controller. Adjustable time delay. Unfortunately very popular. Highly un recommended for towing larger trailers/caravans.


edit. A bit of a google has revealed Hayman reese now have a inertia activated controller on the market. Guardian. Good to see.
Anybody with the older non inertia unit....ditch it for something better.

note - I just read on hayman reese's site that they recommend using 3mm (or larger) wire for installing.

OK I've just dug one of the nasty ones up from the back of my cupboard where I threw it 10 years ago.........It was screwed to the drawbar of a trailer I baught......It does in fact have 4 wires....( and about 8 electronic components) (I'm going to have to ammend a post in another thread). but it is quite common for them to be wired with the supply and brake wire commoned and mounted on the trailer, drawing both power and signal from the brake lights...very common on hire trailers.

It is also not unknown for people to mount these in the boot or on the tow bar of the car and just use the brake light circuit because they cant be bothered runnning a supply cable and mounting it on the dash.

In the Dim dark past I have seen "Jug eliment controllers" which consisted of a tapped resistance in series with the brake lights. Metal box and a multi position switch ( 4 or 5 positions) But they were a two wire controller.

I believe there was a hayman rece controller that had a ball bearing running up a ramp type enertia sensor quite some time ago....had a brown case and was quite large.....I always scratched my head and thaught about the reliability issues but The one I saw in action seemed to work well.

The tenkonca units I understand ( havn't pulleed one appart) have a circular pendulum with some sort of tapered slot and optic arrangment.

Any sort of decent electronic device should draw less than 2/3 of 5/8 of stuff all from the brake light circuit, all it is looking for is an on/off, if t was me designing all you would see looking into the unit would be the front end of an optocoupler and the appropriate resistor probaly 20mA.

Tenkonca also specify quite heavy wire ( voyager 12 guage which is about 3.3mm2 or close enought to 5mm automotive) for both thye supply and the brake line.
Unfortunatly there is an attifude that electric brakes don't draw much and heavy wire is not needed, I have had one trailer parts salesman bleat in my ear at length to that effect. I note it is common for quite light wire to be used to wire brake circuits on trailers....My old trailer that I am currently refitting was wired in .75mm2 figure8.
I expect the issue will be voltage drop rather than current rating

fair is fair though, many of these controllers will drive quite a number of axles so the installation has to account for that.

Having dug up the voyager manual, i found in it several notes for specific vehicles with "weird wiring" there is a stuffed in note about XF vintage fords with the digital dash and cruse controll..... you cant connect toe the brake switch in those you have to go to te boot and pick up brake light wiring connector there so the issue isnt new.

cheers

[phewy]

Good idea about the running a wire back from the back for the stop signal.
Sometimes it's a pain in the guts and arms (because that's what gets stuck) to find the right signal wire or the right wire on the brakes switch/es.
Might save disturbing something you shouldn't too :-[

It might cost $5 in wire to pickup the brake signal down the back but save an hour or so labour especially seeing you'll be taking the bundle to the socket anyways
I always take an auxiliary power wire down to the back at the same time as well- seeing that everything is open and the power more then likely needed is needed for break-a-ways, fridges or boat winches.
03 Patrols are good to work on. :)
Good suggestion about the aux wire finga.
We always ask the customer what his plans are. If he intends using the van fridge on 12v, then we will run an extra 6mm wire from the battery to the plug at the same time.

On a side note, talking of aux wires, we don't fit relays on aux circuits these days much, (to stop draining the vehicles battery when stopped) as it means to use the van interior lights on 12v at night, like at a rest stop at night, it means leaving the ignition/acc on.
These days theres a unit called a fridge switch, which is a motion detecting unit fitted behind the fridge which shuts off the supply to fridge only if van/vehicle is stationary for more than a minute or so, then switch back on again when moving again. So at lights, heavy traffic etc, the unit will say on. 15 min to fit.

[Roughasguts]

Hmmmm I like this fridge switch thingy. Might go and find one I haven't hooked my fridge in the van up to the Paj, yet cause I'm bound to forget it's on one day.

And push starting a Paj with a van is a bit hard to do as I don't always take the gennie! could be in for a bad day.

Cheers.

Fridge switch $59.95 + 7 bucks postage from RV electronics.

[phewy]

It is also not unknown for people to mount these in the boot or on the tow bar of the car and just use the brake light circuit because they cant be bothered runnning a supply cable and mounting it on the dash.

Actually it was very common for caravan hire companys to do it this way with electric brakes. Mount the unit inside under the seat of van, facing the right way of course for pendulum to work, and get the power supply to the controller from the vans tail light supply. Just meant boosting the fuse capacity on the tow vehicle and making sure the customer travelled with at least his park lights on. Agricultural...yes...but it worked. When I first started in the caravan repair/building trade I worked for a company that hired on the side and did just this. No problems ever. But as cars became more technology or electronically advanced, we started doing temp installs in the vehicles with wiring run through the car but not under trims etc. On long term hires, it was done the proper traditional way and removed on return.


The tenkonca units I understand ( havn't pulleed one appart) have a circular pendulum with some sort of tapered slot and optic arrangment.Never pulled a Tekonsha Voyager apart, but pulled a few of the older models...the 2030 mk12...apart and yes, they did have some sort of circular pendulum system on a rack.



Having dug up the voyager manual, i found in it several notes for specific vehicles with "weird wiring" there is a stuffed in note about XF vintage fords with the digital dash and cruse controll..... you cant connect toe the brake switch in those you have to go to te boot and pick up brake light wiring connector there so the issue isnt new.

cheers Indeed, that would be the green wire with a red trace located in the loom on rhs of boot.

[Tangles]

Older tread i know but I just wanted to know what people feel are the best generic brake controller in 2013, ie one to fit to the car that tows well, also which ones to avoid if they are to specific. In other words if your towing your boat and potentially mates boats which controller would you fit?

Mike

[wrxhoon]

Tekonsha P3, you won't find better.

[tenzing]

Tekonsha P3, you won't find better.
Same for me

[feral cat]

Definatley redarc controller.No big box to mount at your knees.All you see is a dial knob and led light.It works in reverse and has a push button feature as well for taking off on hills etc...Had mine for quite some time now and can't fault it.