battery question.

[ronnien]

after charging my boat battery ( which is a car battery), i noticed a big bulge in 1 end.
has it craped itself?? it is about 3 years old & being a car batt i think it has served me well?
i only run nav lights, gps, sounder & live bait tank so what battery would everyone suggest?? & the motor is pull start but hooked up to put charge back into the batt.

ron.

[QF3 MROCP]

after charging my boat battery ( which is a car battery), i noticed a big bulge in 1 end.
has it craped itself?? it is about 3 years old & being a car batt i think it has served me well?
i only run nav lights, gps, sounder & live bait tank so what battery would everyone suggest?? & the motor is pull start but hooked up to put charge back into the batt.

ron.

ronnien:

sounds like it has and not worth the risk. you know doubt have heard - a marine battery is not a car battery and a car not a marine.
Have a look at this web site as there is also a calculator explaining the capacity and AH allowance to take into account.

http://www.centurybatteries.com.au/asp/index.asp?pgid=11010&cid=5461&batterydivision=-1&application=66


QF3

[FNQCairns]

I routinely buy the cheapest i can find, lead acid light truck variety but the light truck bit doesn't really matter, never had a boat related problem from car battery's, once upon a time not that long ago a marine battery could be made right before eyes, ones sticker was pealed away and another with marine was stuck on!

cheers fnq

[BM]

Ronnie,

Given your engine is pull start then its no doubt smallish and as such will have a small alternator (say, 6Amps). This isn't really going to put a lot back into your battery. Its sounds though as if you are already bench charging it between trips?

Given the battery is not for anything critical I would suggest run it till it dies. Although if you do a lot of night fishing then that may not be such a great idea.

I have used auto batteries in my own boats over the years pretty regularly. You look to have had good service from the existing battery so why not continue down that path? A deep cycle would be the best option but the cost could be hard to justify.

Cheers

[PADDLES]

i'd be more worried about what's causing the bulge ronnie. does it have removeable caps and did you remove them to charge it. be very careful if it's somehow become pressurised, i've heard of them exploding before.

[ronnien]

bm,
yeah charge between trips.

paddles,
after reading a few posts i have been leaving the caps on, thats when it bulged.

just came home with a super charge sealed battery $120 (auto). the space that it sits in is only smallish so had to get a smallish battery.
the battery that i was using was tested & the falla said that it was still good with full charge & that the bulge could be as simple as the plastic expanding due to heat & the gases not escaping . but i bought a new one... just on the safe side of things.

thanks for the help guys.

ron.

[Willdoe]

A dealer told me there was no difference in the construction of marine & Truck batteries in the brand he sold. They are both designed to withstand shock and vibration.
I would be loth to use the bulged battery in a tinny incase it ruptured and the acid could attack the alloy. I have got mine in a battery box after a spill.

Willdoe

[Gilli]

Youve cooked your battery, and a truly good cooking by the sounds of it to. Make sure every time you charge your batteries in future that you take the caps off, this allows it to vent easier and keeps the sulphuric acid at room temperature.

regards,
Chris

[Blaster Bretty]

Yeah ronnein mate, dont be fooled into this car vs boat battery thing, I myself thought it had to be marine for boats etc but when I bought my 2nd battery for lights, sounder etc the bloke said to me "hey try these ones, theyy are actually a car battery but we will warranty them for 2 yrs for marine use" I thought yaeh and it was only $75 so the real issue here is for me I will use a designated marine battery for the motor and a car battery for the periphial stuff , lights etc, the main difference between the two is the marine battery has the inner plates locked down so as to help keep it together during the rigours of ocean travel,,,, but I only fish the rivers and estuary's so I could of even got away with the car battery for both use's

Bretty

[Gilli]

Much the same with my boat battery, they sold me a car battery for 99 bux with a marine warranty. non sealed and it is excellent.

[ronnien]

yep, got 2 yrs warranty on it & it's called super charger not super charge.
sorry about that.

ron.

[mercury'srising]

Hi Ronnien. The old "battery is a battery story again eh!
Before making any comment I have been in the battery business for over 30 years starting with MANUFACTURING.
Firstly; your bulging battery is a sign of overcharging and probably by the charging system not your charger.
Secondly: check the charging system with a VOLTMETER. You are looking for 12.8 to 14.2 VOLTS (engine running at idle) for a stable system. Note that the system should be checked with a fully charged battery with a variance to load. i.e. switch some things on & off while the volt meter is connected and any variance should be between the above scale. An overcharging system is dangerous as it produces extra high levels of highly explosive gas. FIX IT.
No. 3: If a battery dealer or salesman tells you that an automotive battery is the same as a marine battery (apart from the sticker) ask him if he has ever push started a car with a crook battery. Then invite him to come and push start your boat if the battery fails.
No. 4: Now seek a proffessional battery dealer and seek his advice for your needs. Continue on this quest until successful as will be your boating with the proper equipment.
No. 5: If you use a car or truck battery in a boat it will be useless to continue buying lotto tickets. That would only be a waste of money as you are already running out of luck.

Hope these tips help

MERCURY'S RISING WHILE OTHERS FALL

[Gilli]

Yeah mercury rising, you can say all that but first of all you gotta ask him exactly what he is doing with his boat, i highly doubt that he is taking it out in extreme weather in rough waters.

From what you have just said there it seems like your aiming for perfection, which aint a bad thing, but for what he is doing with it he would be perfectly right with a car battery of choice. Marine batteries are good if you rely on them getting you home but he has stated that his motor is pull start and the overcharging business was not because of a faulty rectifier on the motor, if you read correctly. It was actually a faulty 230-12/15v domestic charger which caused the damage.

[Roughasguts]

A battery can bulge just by the plates getting old and seperating with out being charged. See it all the time with the sealed batteries at work just sitting on a bench.

Jury is still out for me charging with the caps off! apart from the small vent in lead acid batteries, and the cap stays on when charging from the alteranator.

Most other batteries are now sealed and when they start to bulge It seems more to do with the age! than anything else, but of course the battery has had it once the plates start moving.

[BM]

Overcharging from the outboards alternator is incredibly unlikely. The output on small engines is in the order of a few amps so if he ran the engine for 2hrs @ 6A/hr then he's only replaced 12A (theoretically).

The biggest killer of batteries by far is lack of maintenance, particularly in the off season. If batteries are kept trickle charge maintained they will last a lot longer. Also the correct type of charger is very important. Charging calcium or spiral wound cells with conventional chargers will damage the battery.

There is no doubt that vibration shortens the life of a battery. In the Solomon Islands they typically only get 12 months from a battery (regardless of the type of battery) due to the opressive climate and the terribly rough road system.

Having boated for many years and also driven a lot on the roads in the Solomons I would tender that the roads over there are much harsher on a battery than the water is on a boat.

A piece of medium density foam or similar under the battery would further alleviate vibration. To prove/disprove the battery argument we really need a charter boat operator that can trial some auto batteries and then some marine batteries and then some 4wd batteries (can't see 4wd being any diff to marine) and see which lasts the longest in essentially the same conditions.

My other business (not marine related) deals in batteries.

Cheers

[Roughasguts]

Just a thought but if you have two batteries side by side for comparison the heaviest battery would have to be the better one.

But if you had a so called marine battery and a standard car battery side by side but they weighed the exact amount, then that would be suspect to me and possibly a rip off. (it's a bit hard to see inside for build quality)

The weight theory I base on oil filters the best one with the most paper packing is the heaviest one, and usually the dearest as well.

Cheers

[Roughasguts]

Hey Bm, Mate whats a good 3 stage charger? These things a getting confusing for my feeble mind.

I don't mean so called smart chargers, I think the smart thing about those is the marketing.

I have a dead flat battery but all the cells are good and will bubblle when on charge! so wondering maybe a 3 stage charger might pick it up and de sulpate or whatever they call it.

Cheers

[mercury'srising]

Wrong Gilli I don't call it perfection, rather observing one of the golden rules of boating.
Use the right equipment regardless of the waterway you are using.
If the cost of the equipment you require seems to expensive then you should seriously compare the cost to the safety factor.
I find that the safety factor always wins over cost. But that's me.
By the way, you guys pay way too much for batteries up there. We can buy 70 amp hour MARINE batteries down here, well known reputable brands, $160-180


MERCURY'S RISING WHILE OTHERS FALL

[BM]

Hey Bm, Mate whats a good 3 stage charger? These things a getting confusing for my feeble mind.

I don't mean so called smart chargers, I think the smart thing about those is the marketing.

I have a dead flat battery but all the cells are good and will bubblle when on charge! so wondering maybe a 3 stage charger might pick it up and de sulpate or whatever they call it.

Cheers

Hi Justin,

I haven't done much research into chargers. I have looked more at it from the requirements of the batteries. Next on the list will be a look into who makes the best chargers.

There seems to be plenty of talk of the c-tek chargers but I have no knowledge of them myself.

I put the question to an auto elec I deal with about battery weight v quality and his opinion (and its only one guy i guess) was that heavier was not necessarily better and he went on to site a particular brand that are quite heavily constructed but apparently had a higher than average failure rate.

Perhaps I'll cut a few dead ones open and we can have a little construction exploration..

Cheers

[ronnien]

is it safe to use a 3-stage charger on sealed batterys??
& no caps to take off???

ron.

[Roughasguts]

Thanks for that Nick, be interesting to see how differant they are inside.

I just noticed Super cheap have a 10 Amp 3 stage charger for a hundred Bucks, But ummm I wouldn't know if it's any good.

C tek do seem to have a lot convinced there the best charger out there at the moment but there big bucks and don't think I can justify that sort of money for my one and only battery charging requirements. I just like to have the best toys I guess I should get over that me thinks and save me money.

But if the super cheap one does a 98%-100% charge I would be very happy with that. The regular chargers be lucky to do a 70% charge, that's why they die an early death! I'm lead to beleive.

Cheers.

[ronnien]

had to go digging but found the packet of the charger,
battery fighter junior.

output:12vdc @ 750mA
input:240vac @50Hz 20w
the battery that bulged was being charged with a standard quick charger (wont be using that anymore, cheap ass crap)

ron.

[BM]

Thanks for that Nick, be interesting to see how differant they are inside.

I just noticed Super cheap have a 10 Amp 3 stage charger for a hundred Bucks, But ummm I wouldn't know if it's any good.

C tek do seem to have a lot convinced there the best charger out there at the moment but there big bucks and don't think I can justify that sort of money for my one and only battery charging requirements. I just like to have the best toys I guess I should get over that me thinks and save me money.

But if the super cheap one does a 98%-100% charge I would be very happy with that. The regular chargers be lucky to do a 70% charge, that's why they die an early death! I'm lead to beleive.

Cheers.

Buy yourself a proper battery tester and you can test the specific gravity of each cell. If I'm not mistaken you should then be able to use any old charger and monitor the SG yourself and when it reaches the peak SG, switch her off.

Of course if its a sealed battery this might be a tad difficult......:P :P

Possibly check out what Jaycar have to offer. I worked for them some years ago and they were particular about their products actually working properly. In particular any of the kit form units. Given they were usually presented by Silicon Chip or Electronics Australia they had to work before they were sold on the mass market.

They used to have some decent multi stage chargers in kit form if I remember correctly and some prebuilt models also.

cheers
cheers

[Blaster Bretty]

My charger is a super cheap auto, calibre is the brand name and its great, 6amps and has boost and float mode, float being the same as trickle where it is brought from around 80% charge at the end of boost and then trickled up to the 100% in float mode and then held there till used.
By the way my motor cranker is a century marine pro 400, it cost $146.00 , some one rekons we pay too much but they paid $160-$180, now they might not be buying the same battery as mine but my price is better....Up here! My other battery for lights and sounder and stuff is the auto battery that cost $75 on special, its a super charger 300 and still will crank the motor if need be and IT HAS 2YRS WARRANTY, I will not be miffed into the auto vs marine debate, I have my own idea's as im sure other blokes have there's, each to there own I say!

Bretty

[Roughasguts]

Thanks BM, I was going to get yet another SG meter but then I thought every one so far I have bought has broken somehow, before I got to use it.

How do you store those things, do you wash them off, ? the bulb always cracks on me and there stored carefully, well so I thought.

Cheers.

[mercury'srising]

Knew I should have been more specific.
70 amp hour Marine battery equivalent to Marine Pro 600 but are 640 cca 160 rm with dual wing nut and bolt terminal arrangement and fold down carry handle.

MERCURY'S RISING WHILE OTHERS FALL

[Gilli]

Yeah good on you mercury rising, go and buy your batteries down there cheaper if your trying to make us feel like we r been ripped off.

Oh mercury rising, can you repeat all that with the voice of doctor Phil???

cheers,
Chris

[mercury'srising]

No Gilli, that would be a waste of time if you don't understand it now. Phil uses far more technical jargon. I keep it simple and to the point.

MERCURY'S RISING WHILE OTHERS FALL

[Gilli]

no need to get crabby mercury rising, was only a joke.

[dreemon]

Gilli , seems the tempers rising, ya picked an appropriate name Murcury's rising, ;) but Jokes aside.

I use a car battery for my pull start engine that has a charging rectifier and works normal for me,

[Gilli]

Yeah thats much the same as me dreemon, i just use a car battery, but havent got a rectifier on my motor, but it seems to work fine, i mean it aint the titanic and it aint facing really rough seas but i do take it out on the shoals here in townsville and they get pretty fierce at times. I havent had a drama with it yet.

cheers,
Chris