For the Cat People - negatives please

[trueblue]

I am seriously considering if my next boat should be a cat.

My question is for people who have and love their cats.........

"There are many pros associated with having a cat, but what are the genuine downsides of cats?"

constructive comment would be appreciated.

[Noelm]

hhmm let me see, "tunnel slap" when trolling into a steep chop, that is when the chop hits the top of the tunnel and makes a "slap", some models will draw in fine mist spray when side on to a good wind, lean outwards when turning, BIG on the trailer and in the yard, heavy to tow, costs to service two motors, some can be very stern heavy, some need big power to get the best out of them, endless abuse from jealous Mono owners, if I think of any others I will post them!

[Stuart]

Access to fuel tanks in most cats is next to none existent. The life on outboards is also greatly reduced by salt mist which gets sucked direct into the engine. I saw the results of an experiment conducted years ago which saw some 1.5 litres of salt water per hour sucked in to each engine. I have also seen plenty of cat motors pulled down with visible signs of rust inside the engines. Costs of insurance, rego, running costs, up front outlay can be huge as can be the tow vehicle. Learning to drive a cat can be a long process, as is trimming the motors for best performance. Would I own a cat? Hell yes.

Stu

[Noelm]

not too sure access to the fuel tanks is any worse on a Cat than any other sealed floor Boat, also insurance and rego are no different to a mono, running costs are reliant on HP, so 2 X 150 on a Mono or Cat will be almost the same, possible drama with spray in engines, but all cats do not suffer this problem, but still there is some validity.

[sid_fishes]

dean, where are you ?

[finding_time]

The big ones for me that Noel has covered are..... size on the trailer, There big to tow and big to store. my 5.2 kc is taller on the trailer than a mates 685 outsider and i'm running 9 inch rimes on my trailer!!!!! The servicing issue about 2 motors doesn't worry me that much as it's offset by the safety i feel offshore with independant twin motors! Stuart mentioned the time it take to drive them properly and this is certainly true if you can forget what you would do in a mono and just learn from scratch you'll pick it up faster! There very very differant and anyone you'll take out that hasn't been in a cat before will feel alittle uncomfortable with it's habits,This can be alot of fun!!!!:evil3: :evil3: :evil3: Tunnel slap can in some seas be annoying but anyone who says troolling in a cat is terrible doesn't understand trolling as the benifits in handleing a fish once hooked with twins that are far apart is AWESOME!!!! You can back-up quickly and in complete controll of you direction . you can spin on a dime it's just great fun!

Summing up it's probable the size on the trailer that's my big issue!



Ian

[trueblue]

which brands of cats DON'T have issues sucking sea water spray into the engines

[trueblue]

There very very differant and anyone you'll take out that hasn't been in a cat before will feel alittle uncomfortable with it's habits,This can be alot of fun!!!!

How would family members find the ride if they are not all that used to boating? Are they going to not want to come out again? Or is it simply people used to monos who feel the ride is so much different to what they are used to?

[bdaearth]

Cost!!!!! and thats it !!! as for learning to drive them I have only been behind the wheel of kevlacats :) :) :) and have been in the 5.2 (deans boat) which is just awsome for its size(I think it will be the boat I will get) The 2400 which is just a dream of a trailer boat and last of all the 3000 which I was out in yesterday we got out to hutchies (the only boat at the time) to say you know what lets head in a bit!!! for the seas where in it was amazing how safe and stable it felt. So to wrap it all up I feel cats are the go as lots have said the size can be a bit of a pain but you also end up with a big fishing deck!!!! BUT in saying all that it comes down to the almighty $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[finding_time]

Family members will love it, they wont really notice the lean issues on turns if they haven't done much boating and a cat's stability at rest is a real selling point as even if everyone goes to the same side of the boat at the one time in will hardly move! The guys used solely to the habits of mono's get really unnerved offshore when it dives and leans into a hole and this does take a bit of getting used to and a mono is abit like a motor bike going around a hill the rider is always upright but get on a quad bike and drive around the same hill and you'll lean outwards! You can limits this fealing alot with trim and over time you get much much better at this!

ian

[Noelm]

don't think anyone would be unhappy with the ride, Whether they are first timers or "old salts" but to get the very best out of a Cat takes a bit of practice, there is no real reason not to just set the throttles and enjoy the ride, but most want to get the Boat up and running as best possible to really get the feel of it all.

[Noelm]

OH, and remember the question was BAD points, so we don't need to point out any positives (I think)

[finding_time]

OH, and remember the question was BAD points, so we don't need to point out any positives (I think)

Just answering a question old boy!;)

Ian

Ps

True blue

The bigger the cat the less trim sensitive imho I find i'm always on the trim to get the best out of the 5.2 but far far less in a 2400 and i would imagine less again in a 3000.

[bdaearth]

Just answering a question old boy!;)

Ian

Ps

True blue

The bigger the cat the less trim sensitive imho I find i'm always on the trim to get the best out of the 5.2 but far far less in a 2400 and i would imagine less again in a 3000.


I find it to be true too, hardly touched the trim yesterday!! oh and here is another bad point once they get to big(The 3000) no throwing her behind the 4x4 to go up to 1770 or anything like that!!

[Noelm]

Just answering a question old boy!;)

Ian

Ps

True blue

The bigger the cat the less trim sensitive imho I find i'm always on the trim to get the best out of the 5.2 but far far less in a 2400 and i would imagine less again in a 3000.
yep, fair enough I am OK with that!

[disorderly]

C'mon Ian, at least warn him about the biggest downside...that is the delusions of grandeur that invariably occur when one becomes a cat owner..:-*

[finding_time]

Delusions???????????:o :o :o What are you talking about Scott!:-/ :-/ :-/ I think you may have taken one to many knocks in that pressed tinnie of yours!!;)


Ian

[trueblue]

So which brands of Cats DO NOT have issues sucking sea water spray into the engines?

Is this a genuine issue, causing premature engine problems just because it is a cat?

[finding_time]

Mate it would be worth while PMing Grand Marlin he seems to really know his cats! As far as my little kc goes there is no salt residue at all inside the cowling at service time so for what it worth it seem to suck little saltwater mist! Lots of old shark cats seemed to have there air intakes moved into the cockpit maybe they had a problem?

ian

[trueblue]

Question..........

Curious how a Cat would handle in some seas that I got caught in recently in my 5.3 Dale mono (lots of boat for a 5.3 classification)... I reckon I got close as I ever want to get to rolling a boat over, and came home with a distinct feeling that I need a bigger boat.

I was heading home from tangalooma and had a scary moment between the south west spit and the scarborough blinker.

The morning was a 15 knot SE that had blown all night, but was not forcast to get any worse during the day. We banged a bit heading straight into it on the way over (typical 2 - 3 foot sharp moreton bay chop), and I reckoned that in the following sea coming back to Scarborough that it would be an easy ride home.

About 11am the South Easter picked up to a steady 25 knots (I checked the wind data later) but I didn't really notice it over at Tangalooma with the kids. About 1:30 pm we headed home and we had a slow but safe run out past the M8. Then it got interesting. Tide was in the middle of the flow in for a big high tide.

Waves were 4 to 6 feet which was a big surprise, but were really steep and peaky, with the odd one breaking. They seemed to be coming in pairs, only about 4 metres apart. The waves seemed to have a lot more south in them, and we were copping them on the back quarter.

we couldn't go very quick obviously and then somehow we got a bit sideways on one of the waves (parallel to the wave where the seas became a bit confused) and we rolled over a fair way as the wave tried to break. This wave was a bit bigger (6 to 7 foot). The gunwhale on the lower side had water lapping at the edge (not coming in, but close) and this boat has much higher gunwhales than most.

We came home the rest of the way safely, having to tack a fair bit so as to not have to cop the waves on the side any more.

So the question is, how would a cat have performed in this situation in comparison to a bigger monohull? I have heard lots of people say get up it and go harder in a cat, but I really couldn't see that as an option on that day. (but I don't know so hence the question...)

Biggest thing, would a cat have becom dangerous and been at risk of tipping over?

[Stuart]

Trueblue

Just so you know I’m not talking out my proverbial rear end on this issue when I made that statement about cat outboards sucking heaps of saltwater mist. I worked on many pro fishing boats which so happened to be cats for many years, all makes and models but one thing in common was the shear amount of saltwater mist sucked in to the engines. What cats don’t suck mist? Well certainly all of the cats I worked on sucked plenty. I use to stand in front of the large esky travelling to and from the grounds and every time with out fail you would be drenched from the mist even in dead flat seas. I also saw a video of two cat outboards under full revs sucking saltwater straight into the vents.

I worked on the old style shark cats, Nossa cats, Kevlacats, Dominators, Markem whalers, Coastal cats and every one of them sucked mist in. I just can’t see how a boat with a fat ass like a cat couldn’t suck water into the engines. If you have ever followed a truck on the highway then you will understand the low pressure right behind these big unites. The same happens to cats and to a much lesser degree; mono hulls. I don’t know of any cat that wouldn’t or couldn’t suck saltwater into the engines. The only way around this is to fit trunks to the engine cowls and then run them under the gunnels on the transom, this doesn’t totally eliminate the problem but it does drastically reduce the problem.
Stu

[patrol50]

so how does a webster twinfisher 5.3 cc rate with the single 90 - 100 hp OB in the cat hirachy - want a solid all round unit which is ok for off shore in good to average conditions - tossing up between it and a similar sized barcrusher
thanks rob

[snelly1971]

Trueblue

Just so you know I’m not talking out my proverbial rear end on this issue when I made that statement about cat outboards sucking heaps of saltwater mist. I worked on many pro fishing boats which so happened to be cats for many years, all makes and models but one thing in common was the shear amount of saltwater mist sucked in to the engines. What cats don’t suck mist? Well certainly all of the cats I worked on sucked plenty. I use to stand in front of the large esky travelling to and from the grounds and every time with out fail you would be drenched from the mist even in dead flat seas. I also saw a video of two cat outboards under full revs sucking saltwater straight into the vents.

I worked on the old style shark cats, Nossa cats, Kevlacats, Dominators, Markem whalers, Coastal cats and every one of them sucked mist in. I just can’t see how a boat with a fat ass like a cat couldn’t suck water into the engines. If you have ever followed a truck on the highway then you will understand the low pressure right behind these big unites. The same happens to cats and to a much lesser degree; mono hulls. I don’t know of any cat that wouldn’t or couldn’t suck saltwater into the engines. The only way around this is to fit trunks to the engine cowls and then run them under the gunnels on the transom, this doesn’t totally eliminate the problem but it does drastically reduce the problem.
Stu


My mate has a ex commercial cat fitted with this set up..I will get a picture and put it up...


Cat Negatives....Dont get me started....LOL


Mick

[Grand_Marlin]

Just trying to think of some negatives....

Nope, Can't ;D

My point of view, the negatives are:

1) Heavy towing weight for length. An 18ft Sharkcat is about 800kg heavier than an 18ft Mono.

2) Misting around motors - and it is solved by running a snorkel inlet from inside the cockpit... or even as far forward as the cabin.
All cats do it.

3) Running into a sharp head sea at speed - they will bang if you cant get the right angle.

Would the cat have been a better boat in your situation?

Absolutely.

Even if it were so rough that you couldn't get up and going in the cat, you still have the backup of the cat stability, twin motors and self draining decks.

Cheers

Pete

[Noelm]

misting is a bit of a funny thing, SOME models are far worse than others, perhaps to do with the shape of the screen/cab? and it only happens to any degree when side on to a good wind, but, I would reckon that on a rec Boat, the Motors will last just as long as any other Mono, has anyone ever tried to "measure" the amount of mist sucked into a Motor on a Mono? nope!!! could be just as bad, my Motors are about the worst possible design when it comes to the air intake, it is mounted on the front top of the cowling, so any water/spray is aimed directly into the vent (and it does get hit, believe me) but with way over 2,000 hours on the Motors with no rebuilds, seems to me to indicate it means bugger all, some had major drama putting the Boat back on the trailer, (especially way back before XL shafts became common) now here is a small tip, when driving back on the trailer, DO NOT tilt the Motors way up, when you give it a "squirt" to power up, all it does is drive the rear and Motors straight under the water or onto the concrete ramp, when driving on, only slightly tilt a bit more than normal running angle, ad ensure the trailer is well in the water! I have seen a couple of Motor failures from a running Motor going just under water, and I can assure you, full on salt water direct into the intakes while the Motor is under power is far worse than any amount of mist! but it is a real "feature" but as mentioned, for the average user it will not pose any problems at all.

[Noelm]

OH, I might add, don't think it has anything to do with the "fat ass" of a Cat, almost any boat in the 5.5M upwards will have a full 2.4/5M beam, I think it has more to do with the tunnel somehow as the mist seems to come from the centre behind the Boat and comes in and you feel it on your back, but that's only a guess with no scientific basis at all.

[finding_time]

so how does a webster twinfisher 5.3 cc rate with the single 90 - 100 hp OB in the cat hirachy - want a solid all round unit which is ok for off shore in good to average conditions - tossing up between it and a similar sized barcrusher
thanks rob

Rob

Have never been in a webster or any singled motor cat but as i stated in an earlier post i live on the trim buttons in my 5.2 kc and it makes a huge differance to it's performance so only having one motor and not being able to trim the boat to me would totally detract from the whole experience, i just cant see it working very well. The boat may still be great but with 2 motors i'm sure it would be much much better!

Ian

[XR650]

Not sure if this one mentioned

* - Lack of useable cabin space ie if you are overnighting

[Noelm]

why would that be the case? if you get a "proper" cabin model it should be fine.

[Blackened]

Not sure if this one mentioned

* - Lack of useable cabin space ie if you are overnighting

G'day

I think you actually get more in a cat, cabin style for cabin style.

This is because they carry their max. beam all the way forward, where a mono will start to taper in a good few feet from the bow

Dave

[Finnatical]

True Blue,

I know exactly the conditions you are referring to as I got caught in similar not that long ago in my KC2400. Any boat beam on to a breaking wave is going to want to go over, cat or mono. Given those conditions I found that the only real way to get through it comfortably was to slow down to around 20kts and just punch through it. Like what you did I would tack all the way back to get the best angle for the ride. At those speeds the boat sits quite solidly (read low) in the water and although there is not as much air in the tunnel, it doesn't pound. Most cats, mine included, generally prefer to get up and go faster and sit on top of the chop, however in the conditions you described that is simply not possible in my opinion if you want a safe and comfortable ride.

So far as the negatives of a cat the others have pretty much knocked it on the head. My biggest irritation is the tunnel slap when trolling into some (not all) seas) and the back of a cat is a very wet place to be when under way. I certainly would not be letting anyone sit at the back of the boat without a mask and snorkel. In my opinion running costs are very much on par with any other boat of similar size and hp. The only extra running cost is having a second motor to service which isn't that bad given the benefits having two motors provides.

Hope that helps,
Jason

[Noelm]

as far as being in big seas in concerned, one of the best plans (assuming you have enough fuel) is to not necessarily go directly to your "home" some Boats may be twice as "happy" and safer to just alter course a bit to change the angle on the chop/sea/swell, it does not need to be much sometimes to improve safety 5 fold, you just need to be aware of what you and your Boat will and can do.

[gofishin]

Question...would a cat have becom dangerous and been at risk of tipping over?
Possibly, and maybe some types of cats more than others, but if so it would be more the cause of the skipper (or lack of), than because it is a cat. If conditions dictate, you need to drive to these, and sometimes that may mean one wave at a time in smaller vessels – regardless of the type. In other words, when the shite really hits the fan, just because you’re heading from A to B (and it is normally navigable in a straight line), it might be safer (or less scary for the crew!) if the boat is not always pointing towards B, and sometimes you just physically can’t blast your way along, even in bigger cats. All things being equal, in a bad situation I’d rather be in a cat, but each to their own.

Now back on topic... Another disadvantage, to some, in say sub 6m cats compared to equivalent monos is the lack of u/floor storage and a comfortably cabin (fwd cabin, not the saloon/enclosed h/top area etc) – because pretty much everything is above the sealed floor and foam filled hulls etc. To many however, this is the very essence of why they buy a cat and gladly accept the trade-off (but we can’t talking about the advantages...;) ).

As far as misting or ‘cockpit suck’ goes, well “sh!t happens” sometimes, but yes another disadvantage. Aerodynamically (above the water) cats are not very efficient, in fact as someone stated, above the water they are a basically a big box being driven at speed, and over a medium that generates a lot of wash/spray/mist anyway, let alone what is being blasted out of the tunnel at a higher pressure. It is pure physics that behind this big fast moving box (above the water) is a low pressure area (just like behind a bus), hence the lighter suspended water particles/mist are/is easily drawn into the cockpit and/or up behind the boat (low pressure area).

Quite a few years ago I remember reading an article about someone trialling pressure equalisation tubes between high & low pressure areas in a cat or cats. Sorry can’t remember too much, or who it was, but think it utilised plastic rod holders (with the bum chopped off) connected with ~50mm (?) hose between the bow area to somewhere in the cockpit. It was pretty basic, but they claimed to practically eliminate sucking in mist (note - mist, not windborne spray). Haven’t heard much else about it though! However, if someone would know about this it would be PW (Seamedia).
my 2 c
cheers

[tinman42]

I drove rescue cats for many years. Things to watch for, they steer as though on straight railway tracks and do not like turning at high speed. When they do turn the "lean out" away from a turn is a very spooky feeling especially if you are hammering it.
Certainly more positives than negatives

[death_ship]

another negative, i havent got windscreen wipers on my sunnies

[bob f 57]

im lucky have 2 a 3.8 whaler for the rivers and creeks and a 5mt for out side,
and i love them
cheers bob

[Dean1]

One more negative about a Cat is that when the weather is shithouse and us Catowners still decide to head out wide, your mates following you in their monohulls have to put their tails between their legs and head back in, its very dissapointing really ;D

[julian1]

One more negative about a Cat is that when the weather is shithouse and us Catowners still decide to head out wide, your mates following you in their monohulls have to put their tails between their legs and head back in, its very dissapointing really ;D

but first they try and stick in your prop wash after you pass them for a smooth ride but even then they fall behind out of sight ::) ::)

[Dean1]

but first they try and stick in your prop wash after you pass them for a smooth ride but even then they fall behind out of sight ::) ::) ;D ;D ;D ;)

[GBC]

Hey Trueblue,

Thought I might jump in before the mutual pussy admiration society takes it to the next level of petting:-X .

For an unbiased opinion ask someone who has both - like a pro.

Stan Young at Wooli has both - a big friggin cat and a big friggin mono.

Have a guess at what he takes when it gets proper messy, or when he's called out to do a rescue.

Cats are great at some things, but they aren't the bee's knees for everything, and as my learned friend sea rash puts it - there comes a time when the ocean reaches a certain sea state, that the very traits cat owners find endearing start to become a liability. eg carrying maximum bouyancy at the beams.

One of my worst days at sea was on that stupid cougar out of 1770 during a bit of a low. It wasn't that bad a day - it was just made all the more worse by a pigrooting cat that was always on two different waves trying to do two different things.

I'd be happy enough to own one - but they aren't as great as some here think they might be.

C.J.

[trueblue]

I like the stability of cats for fishing

I like the ride of big cats (eg the 40 + foot rescue boats) in calm and rough water

I like the manouverability of 2 engines spaced wide apart

I don't like the available interior cabin height in cats due to the high floor.

but I need to ride in smaller sized cat (5 to 7 metres) in sh!thouse weather conditions and marginal conditions in the bay (going up hill and down hill etc) to be able to make my own mind up on what I like. An offer has been made to demonstrate the cat ride to me by an Ausfish member, which is greatly appreciated.

and the greatest challenge of all is that the mrs. has to like it.........

cheers

Mick

[finding_time]

Stan Young at Wooli has both - a big friggin cat and a big friggin mono.

Have a guess at what he takes when it gets proper messy, or when he's called out to do a rescue.

C.J.


Ummmm GBC


Let me see a Stan has a 7m Alloy cat( sailfish) and a 11m Stebber inboard and when it gets rough he prefers to ride in the 6 tonne Stebber rather than the 2 tonne sailfish. Gee i wonder why???:o :o :o :o :o :o Now if he owned a 7m mono and the sailfish his choice may be more difficult dont you think!;)

Ian

Ps are you in for the trip?:D

[GBC]

Which bay?

The only reason I ask is that 5 - 7 m cats hate it on the nose, and if you're running South down Hervey or Moreton bays to come home they'll drive you nuts. Across in fine, but if you're punching into a prevailing every time you go out there's better options.

Last time home from the African gutters in H.B. we were running with a 2400 KC.

From outside to Rooneys was fine, but running south the last 40 odd kilometers the patriot maintained a constant 50 kmh while the KC had to chase calmer water down the island - they got flogged the whole way home because there was a touch of west in the breeze. If anyone can suggest where the skipper should 'bear away' to I'd like to hear it.

The boys were all beer and skittles for the run in from outside - definitely doing it easier than the haines, but that all changed real quick with a simple change of heading in the same sea state.

C.J.

[GBC]

Come on Finding Time - the way you boys talk up the cat abilities handling like a bigger mono all the time - I thought the bookies'd still give the poor old mono a 2 point start?;)

[Teabag73]

My brother in-law has a 24ft Offshore Kevlacat and is a fantastic boat when travelling though IMO when at anchor it's an absolute dog......Yes, I have been in it many times and love the ride etc when moving but when at anchor it is terrible IMO........

[Dean1]

My brother in-law has a 24ft Offshore Kevlacat and is a fantastic boat when travelling though IMO when at anchor it's an absolute dog......Yes, I have been in it many times and love the ride etc when moving but when at anchor it is terrible IMO........ Hey teabag im curious as to why you say the 2400 Kc is an absolute dog at anchor??? Dont you like the fact that you can all walk too one side and it doesnt move?? :-/

[Teabag73]

Hey teabag im curious as to why you say the 2400 Kc is an absolute dog at anchor??? Dont you like the fact that you can all walk too one side and it doesnt move?? :-/

Not referring to stability. I'm referring to how it seems to want to sit side on to the sea for some reason. This is minimised with a sea anchor out back but I personally found it uncomfortable at anchor......If you think different then that's ok, we are all entitled to our opinion......

PS: He was asking for negatives and that is one IMO. I guess if you own a cat and you don't agree with the opinions here then you shouldn't read the posts? :)

[Dean1]

Yeah mate if thats your opinion thats fine. Ive only fished out of a 2400 twice and never experienced it, but i know if my cat ever does this, turning the motors into the swell helps heaps. Tell your mate to try it if he doesnt already do so. Cheers.

[snelly1971]

Hey Trueblue,

Thought I might jump in before the mutual pussy admiration society takes it to the next level of petting:-X .

For an unbiased opinion ask someone who has both - like a pro.

Stan Young at Wooli has both - a big friggin cat and a big friggin mono.

Have a guess at what he takes when it gets proper messy, or when he's called out to do a rescue.

Cats are great at some things, but they aren't the bee's knees for everything, and as my learned friend sea rash puts it - there comes a time when the ocean reaches a certain sea state, that the very traits cat owners find endearing start to become a liability. eg carrying maximum bouyancy at the beams.

One of my worst days at sea was on that stupid cougar out of 1770 during a bit of a low. It wasn't that bad a day - it was just made all the more worse by a pigrooting cat that was always on two different waves trying to do two different things.

I'd be happy enough to own one - but they aren't as great as some here think they might be.

C.J.


Your wasting your time C.J. :-/ Dont dare upset the Cat brigade:'(:'(....or say a bad things about them:-X:-X...They are the only boat to own:-*:-* Or so we keep Hearing:P:P Post....After Post ..after Post....and it just keeps on...Maybe they should start a Thread :o:o A Cat fitted with a couple of E Bombs.....;D;DThat would give us something new to talk about;);)


Mick

[Teabag73]

Yeah mate if thats your opinion thats fine. Ive only fished out of a 2400 twice and never experienced it, but i know if my cat ever does this, turning the motors into the swell helps heaps. Tell your mate to try it if he doesnt already do so. Cheers.

I see many get touchy about there boat choice. Do I like the KC, yes and would be one of if not the best rough weather boats I have ever been in but I feel that it seems to want to sit side on to the sea. Is the KC better than my boat, no doubt about it. I find it funny when a guy ask's for negatives and people give there opinion (however accurate) the owners of these said boats have to get defensive.........

For the record my boat is a 5.5 Formosa Centre Cab and isn't a patch on a KC but I can live with that as it works for me.......Enjoy your KC they are a great boat but every boat has issues. Some more than others.......Tight Lines.....;D

[FNQCairns]

Getting passed by a long boat in rough weather on half the fuel burn.

If somebody already mentioned it please ignore:).

cheers fnq