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Just_chips
13-04-2009, 03:13 PM
Any body who fishes at Redlciffe would no doubt have noticed the increase in the number of Kayak fishers. There seems to be some sort of rumour running around the ramps that the kayakers know where all the snapper are out there.

To some degree this is true. The simple fact is that Kayakers catch fish out here because we are quiet. We don't come roaring in with a noisy 2 stroke and pull up and bang anchor chains against aluminium hulls before throwing the pick in the water with a massive splash. When I see this I pack up and paddle for a few hundred metres before even thiinking about fishing again.

Since people have decided that it is the person on the kayak that knows where the fish are and not just the stealth of the craft that is helping them to land a few, the kayakers have been getting shadowed by the leeches amongst the fishing community who are too lazy and or stupid to figure out an area and catch a feed on their own.

This morning was my turn. There were 3 of us fishing together at around 5am. It was dark but we were all well lit with white all round LED lights that were visible from a long distance, maybe too visible.

We were fishing about a kilometre south of the main reef point at scarborough well away from the usual crowd of followers that turn reef point into the parking lot circus that it can be on a calm non working day.

A tinny came out from Scarborough boat harbour around the point and there were no other visible lights from boats fishing in the area. They made a bee line directly toward us and did a full lap of us at about 20 metres away. OK so we were getting sussed out to see who these lights were and what we were fishing...that's OK you had your look time to move on. Nope this bloke then gets directly in front of us and starts moving in closer again over the top fo the mark we were fishing, our berley trail and our baits.

It was at this point that I not so politely suggested he move on as my kayak is a single seater and that seat is already taken. He makes a few smart comments before moving off to annoy somebody else. All done.

To the boat fisherman the jet ski is the scurge of the water. But to the kayak fisherman the boatie is fast becoming their biggest enemy, with kayak forums continually reporting incidents such as mine or sometimes more dangerous encounters.

Guys... it is a big bit of water, you don't need to follow us around if you want to catch fish at Redcliffe. There are 3 very important things that can turn your fishing in this area around.

1. Be quiet. use and electric if you have one. Carpet your anchor well in your tinnie and place it quietly in the water. Cut your motor and drift quietly to your spot.

2. Use good quality bait or make sure your plastics are well presented i.e. Thread them on the jig head straight.

3. Reduce the weight on your rigs. Most of the time you don't need a sinker in this area, if you do then start small and work your way up as required (small is 00 ball)

Give the kayak guys some space they aren't gurus, most of us are struggling to catch a feed also, there is going to be a blue out here soon if this crap continues.

End of rant.

Kev

finga
13-04-2009, 03:48 PM
Goodo and I can understand the concern.

We also see the boatie roaring past the paddler fisho way too close and nearly causing an upset all too often as well.
When we ever see a paddler it's 6kts from about 100-150m before the paddler until we've gone past just so there's near to no wash.
I just think of the fishing gear that might go down to Davey if the canoe/kayak etc gets belly up.
A bit of common courtesy to all the users of the waterways would be a pleasant change to say the least.

oldboot
13-04-2009, 04:22 PM
Even in a full sized boat, If I was onto a few snaps and some drongo ran 20m circles arround me I'd be pretty pissed.

Regardless the rule is, 30 meters, 6 knots no wash........lots of people don't grasp that one either...........that is two seperate requirements at 30 meters......6 knots.......and ....... no wash.

We are obliged with a duity of care written down chapter and verse, to ensure that our wake does not present a risk to other craft.

regardless of the distance or speed, if your wash may cause danger or damage you are liable for prosecution.


mutter mutter drongos

cheers

TimiBoy
13-04-2009, 04:50 PM
It's just common courtesy, isn't it? Try picking up your camera and start taking photos. Guys like this should be reported if they are creating safety issues. The Police may at least "chat" them. Much more effective than having a blue.

I get riled up when I hear about meatheads like this. They give us all a bad name.

Cheers,

Tim

Wahoo
13-04-2009, 05:22 PM
Kev, i like your post, but i can say a few of you yackers have a huge attatude (sp) problem


Daz

FNQCairns
13-04-2009, 05:37 PM
Kev, i like your post, but i can say a few of you yackers have a huge attatude (sp) problem


Daz

Your outboard must be a lot quieter than mine Daz I didn't think those gestures where attitude based I though that where saying I am very hot and tired from paddling all this way please tilt up and spray me with a waterfall of cool refreshing water;D;D8-) and the post gestures I put down to lots of individual thanks all strung together.:-[:D will turn OB off and listen better next time:-/

cheers fnq

FNQCairns
13-04-2009, 05:40 PM
Ken you are absolutely correct there is no excuse, same as bullying by any larger craft, we have all been on the receiving end or will be at some time, such is life everywhere.

cheers fnq

Just_chips
13-04-2009, 05:45 PM
Before we go any further guys, the lap around me wasn't at pace he did slow down and reduce his wash.

My point is that what he was doing was working his way around us in the middle of nowhere to try and see what we were fishing. And that was fine for a bit, he had his look and obviously could not find the isolated bommie that was there as it is very small. He then started coming in closer and this is where I drew the line. I'm sure any body fishing at a particular mark either in a tinnie, or offshore in a bigger craft (spot x or whatever) that has someone tracking up their berley trail and motoring around them and then over area where their baits are now more or less under the other parties boat would be fairly pissed.

I'm not all that concerned with boat wash myself, I am confident and capable in my yak and have yet to be too badly affected by wash, but I'm sure the day will come when I do get a good wash from a passing cruiser that is going to get me. Others in yaks may not be as comfortable with boat wash as I am and probably make their vioces heard.

The particular problem at Redcliffe seems to be the rumour working it's way around that the kayakers get all the fish out there. What this does is send the weekend fisho that doesn't catch alot seeking out the kayakers, purely because there is obviously fish where he is fishing, because he heard that the 'kayakers get heaps of snapper at Redcliffe'.

One of the reasons I bought a kayak was for the stealth factor and as I stated above when somebody shows up banging an anchor around in an aluminium hull then it is time for me to leave as my stealthy cover has just been blown, I'm not about to blow up about stuff like that but blatantly trying to pinch somebodies mark from under their nose is a little off, might as well check my crab pos for me too.

BaitThrower
13-04-2009, 06:10 PM
He was an idiot.
In fact, the majority of boaters it seems cannot grasp the 30m/6 knot/no wash rule. Just go down the gold coast on the broadwater and watch idiots gunning it past pontoons, ramps and jetties at full speed 10m from the ramp, and almost flipping there overpowered tinnies.

The water cops must make a fortune on fines down there... but they need more of them to catch these morons!

Angla
13-04-2009, 06:51 PM
I certainly hear you and it is good to see someone bring this problem to the forum for all to take note.

For one I think I am normally thoughtful of others and don't get too close when fishing, except when the pack is drifting for whiting or baitfish.

Ihope your waters stay calm and you catch plenty

Cheers
Chris

Jeremy
13-04-2009, 06:58 PM
Regardless the rule is, 30 meters, 6 knots no wash........lots of people don't grasp that one either...........that is two seperate requirements at 30 meters......6 knots.......and ....... no wash.


The 30m 6 knots rule is for anchored boats I think (MSQ). Otherwise, I believe the rule is to keep well clear when overtaking.

Other boats stealing GPS marks, anchoring in your line of drift, anchoring too close to where you are fishing etc etc etc happend all the time, whether you are in a boat or any other watercraft. Been a few times when I have given other boats a spray of obscenities to help them remember some courtesy.

Don't think you are special or will get any extra consideration just because you are in a kayak.

Jeremy

TimiBoy
13-04-2009, 07:48 PM
The 30m 6 knots rule is for anchored boats I think (MSQ). Otherwise, I believe the rule is to keep well clear when overtaking.

Other boats stealing GPS marks, anchoring in your line of drift, anchoring too close to where you are fishing etc etc etc happend all the time, whether you are in a boat or any other watercraft. Been a few times when I have given other boats a spray of obscenities to help them remember some courtesy.

Don't think you are special or will get any extra consideration just because you are in a kayak.

Jeremy

I'll never forget the knob in the 50ish foot Rivvie passing me at a good 15 knots within 10 metres while I was anchored. Damn near lost a man o/b. Yep, it's not just yaks that suffer at the hands of wankers...

Tim

oldboot
14-04-2009, 11:04 AM
Yes in deed the letter of the law as per the 6 knot rule does not apply to boats underway. IE not at anchor,aground or made fast to the shore.

However there is a general specificaly stated and implied responisbility placed upon all masters to operate their craft in a way that does not cause damage or danger to any other craft or structure.

check out section 221 of the qld regulations

especilay check out section 128.

A person must not operate a ship at a speed at which the ship's wash is reasonably capable of causing-

(a) a marine incident or
(b) damage to the shoreline

Maximum penalty 200 penalty units...........a penalty unit is currently $75 i believe.

Remember it isn't all in the boating and safety guide.

cheers

robersl
14-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Hi Just chips i know where you mean i fish there myself in the boat and have had a kyaks come out and fish around me but i always give them room and go slow when leaving the area but you do get some knobs scream in and anchor up near you as well even in a boat

shane

GBC
14-04-2009, 11:54 AM
There is of course the possibility that old mate had the mark too and was just doing a quick lap to make sure he couldn't get on it?

I fish wrecks etc offshore, and there are plenty of blowflys - but there are plenty of other blokes who also have the mark and want to have a shot too. I can understand that - I don't necessarily like it but I can understand it.

lippa
14-04-2009, 12:06 PM
good idea on the white light.

do you reckon the kayak community could adopt the use of a 6 foot orange triangle flag off the stern?

would make it a shit load easier to you blokes, most of us want to stay away, but when under way, it does get difficult to spot ya's!

cheers

lippa

finga
14-04-2009, 12:41 PM
do you reckon the kayak community could adopt the use of a 6 foot orange triangle flag off the stern?

would make it a shit load easier to you blokes, most of us want to stay away, but when under way, it does get difficult to spot ya's!

cheers

lippa
You mean an orange sail for the little buggers ::)

Just_chips
14-04-2009, 02:23 PM
I don't know about the flag. I know that some people use them and I can't see that it makes a big difference to their visibilty. Boat traffic in busy areas is a risk that must be considered when yakking. This is the reason I avoid places like the broadwater as some of the millionaires down there have more money than brains.

Whenever I use my yak in area where I know boats will be travelling at speed I always wear my PFD. In the pockets of my PFD I keep a mirror for signalling, if required I could possibly use this to get a boats attention if it were heading my way and I also have a sports referrees whistle for gaining the attention of oncoming traffic if required. I haven't had to use them yet so I'm assuming I am fairly visible.

Jeremy:

Thanks for your reply mate, not seeking any special treatment just highlighting the fact that kayakers seem to have been singled out in certain areas as FAD's. I was just wanting people to know this is not necessarily the case. Most kayakers and kayak fishing forums are now referring to the boaties in the same manner that the boaties refers to the jetskier, I sit on the fence here as I participate in both at times, and from what I can see there are knobs within both groups who I simply would not give the time of day to. This particular situation with me the other morning contained one of the said knobs and I was simply venting some of my frustrations of this event via my keyboard. Probably a crime we've all been guilty of at some point.

Kev

Jeremy
14-04-2009, 02:47 PM
fair enough. I don't fish that area. Anyway, feel for you as I hate it when other boaties do it to me.

Jeremy

Blackened
14-04-2009, 03:42 PM
G'day

Have you yakers considered these for added visibility?

http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=53845&search123=led+silicone&intAbsolutePage=5

Dave

Just_chips
14-04-2009, 04:32 PM
G'day

Have you yakers considered these for added visibility?

http://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=53845&search123=led+silicone&intAbsolutePage=5

Dave


It was looking alright until I read the bit that stated "Not Waterproof" this makes it as ood as useless for kayak fishing if you ask me as everything I own and use on the yak gets wet at somepoint.

Kev

lippa
14-04-2009, 06:20 PM
I don't know about the flag. I know that some people use them and I can't see that it makes a big difference to their visibilty. Boat traffic in busy areas is a risk that must be considered when yakking. This is the reason I avoid places like the broadwater as some of the millionaires down there have more money than brains.

Whenever I use my yak in area where I know boats will be travelling at speed I always wear my PFD. In the pockets of my PFD I keep a mirror for signalling, if required I could possibly use this to get a boats attention if it were heading my way and I also have a sports referrees whistle for gaining the attention of oncoming traffic if required. I haven't had to use them yet so I'm assuming I am fairly visible.





put a signal mirror in my eyes when i'm doing 30+ knots, 2 things are gunna happen, 1 i'm blinded and turn into you, 2 if i didnt run over ya, ya's get a spray like ya never had before, and possibly a tap on the chin.

etec owners are never gunna hear your whistle over the racket their motors making!!!;D

i reakon go and get the flags, you can buy them cheaply at bicycle stores. 30 bucks could save your life

they make a heap of difference sitting from my helm, you guys need to be visable from at least a 100 meters, 30 just aint good enough.

by the way, i'm thinking seriously of joining your crew for them stealth missions, and im gunna get me a flag!

cheers

lippa

tunaticer
14-04-2009, 07:33 PM
I too regularly fish from my kayak at Redcliffe and nearly every trip have some clown in a powerboat come roaring past at leass than 20m in a hurry to hit thier fishing spot. For me it is not the wash, the visibility of me or the noise they create, it is the pure ignorance and arrogance of these idots that shit me to tears.

I choose to fish from a kayak for the quietness and the solitude it brings as well. As soon as a boat with some waveslap on the hull nears about 25-30m from me (even if it is on the drift) the fish definitely go off the bite. Sounders also create a similar pattern on about a 6m radius (yes some boats do drift within about 5 metres of me on a regular basis) and the fish noticeably go off the bite until the sounder has moved on.

I doubt a flag will make much difference at all as far as visibility of a kayak, its rider and fishing gear goes, we do stand out quite well in most conditions. I believe it is the inattention of the boatie that is of greater concern, some of them do not have a clue where theyare going or what is in the way. One in particular about mid january missed my kayak by about 30 metres at full noise doing about 30 knots and managed to sideswipe the green bouy at Klingner Road reef!! Obviously not a clue where he was travelling.

The other ones that annoy me are the comp fishers and the ABT guys in thier skeeters and testosterone boats with no freeboard, no end of throttle and no brains to drive them. In mid January there was a comp happening and the idiots came through and actually weaved through the 8 or so kayaks out there that morning fishing the shallow reefs off Queens.

At night a good small bright light like a tektite diving light as an all rounder is definitely something that should be used continually regardless of where you are fishing as idiots often do not occur only in daylight hours.

I do not know what the solution is about how the kayakers can be safe or respected by the few boaties that have less prains than my parrot that cant talk regardless of its training, maybe they just dont have what it takes to fluke some intelligence??

Some mornings though everything goes to plan and you have no dramas at all with any boaties and the fish cooperate, giving the kayak fishing a really good reason to exist. Days like these you do not feel like you have to be armed with a weapon of sorts and thats a good feeling.

TimiBoy
15-04-2009, 06:02 AM
The same people we're all complaining about here are the ones who cut you off (I drive trucks), blow red lights, play music at 3 am on Sunday night, get drunk on planes and abuse the staff, take undersize fish, steal from you, buzz fishos on jet skis, vandalise your possessions, you know the ones I mean.

The world's full of them, and kayakers don't have a monopoly on being shat/annoyed/put at risk by them.

This is not just an issue on the water. It is everywhere. The world is full of a$$holes, always has been. Trouble is now they have permission thanks to the bleeding hearted idiots who talk about their "rights". Next time you hear Terry O'Gorman going off, think and say the opposite to what he says, and thank him for the advice.

rant /off.

Tim

Razgo-
15-04-2009, 07:24 AM
I think you hit the nail on the head. I remember a professor did some sort of statistics on this sort of thing about 20 years ago or so and came to the conclusion there is one in every 25 people who go through life with the sole purpose to annoy other people for no apparent reason. I think it is more likely one in 5 these days?

insideout
15-04-2009, 01:48 PM
I am a boatie/ yacker/ diver/jetskier, generally all things watersports, and i have neally ran over yackers here in the bay, for alot of them blend into the water colour, with nothing but blue on, blue , gray yacks, blue sunshirts , ect. Please for my sake and yours, wear something bright, and dont carry out a conversation with all ya mates sitting in the shipping channels..be seen to be seen...

PinHead
15-04-2009, 03:04 PM
Forget the whistle kev..I know when I had the sports cruiser..2 V6's purring along there was no chance of hearing any whistle. The current 2 stroke is not much better.

I avoid places (dams) with boats when using the yak..so far only gone to Wivenhoe but will give the salt a go sometime soon.

TheRealAndy
15-04-2009, 07:54 PM
I always slow down for the yak'rs in nundah creek. To be honest they would probably be better off if I passed them on the plane cause there is less wash, but i slow right down to a point where i think my wash is minimal.

I dont think anyone is alone when being hassled by idiots when snapper fishing (or any fishing for that matter). I quite often pick a spot away from everyone only to get some ######## motor up and drop anchor 6 feet away. Dont think you are the only one that suffers from this.

Blueroo
17-04-2009, 06:46 PM
I know where you are coming from Kev. Im a yakker (OC 4.5 Prowler) and a boatie (Bluefin Bowrider).
When in the boat Ive been hassled by all sorts. The thing is when you are in the boat its not really a safety issue except for idiots doing really stupid dangerous things.
I'm always on the lookout for anything in the path of the boat and stay well clear of yakkers because I know how much noise tinnies make. When in the yak all you can hear is the banging of the tinny's hull against the water as they pass. Defintiely not stealth machines.
What Ive noticed recently is the yakkers using the flags. When viewed from the boat these flags on the yaks really do stand out.
Usually the yak is below the horizon but the flag is just above the horizon when viewed from the boat making it really stand out.
I'll most certainly be getting one for my kayak.
Cheers
Stue

mudrunner
17-04-2009, 06:59 PM
Before we go any further guys, the lap around me wasn't at pace he did slow down and reduce his wash.

My point is that what he was doing was working his way around us in the middle of nowhere to try and see what we were fishing. And that was fine for a bit, he had his look and obviously could not find the isolated bommie that was there as it is very small. He then started coming in closer and this is where I drew the line..

sshheeeezze...i heard yak fishermen caught more fish also. 3 yaks later, i still cant catch nothin!!! you mean you still have to actually know somethin about fishing to catch fish??::)


.

Gator
17-04-2009, 10:14 PM
It happens everyday in boats aswell. Curiosity killed the cat. People just can't help themselves. This isn't a boat/kayak problem so don't start creating a rift between the two. Remember also that boaties pay rego and have as much right to be there as you do! I suggest you get used to it or stay at home.

Gator
17-04-2009, 10:22 PM
especilay check out section 128.

A person must not operate a ship at a speed at which the ship's wash is reasonably capable of causing-

(a) a marine incident or
(b) damage to the shoreline

Maximum penalty 200 penalty units...........a penalty unit is currently $75 i believe.

How do wake board boats exist if this is the law!

TimiBoy
18-04-2009, 06:03 AM
It happens everyday in boats aswell. Curiosity killed the cat. People just can't help themselves. This isn't a boat/kayak problem so don't start creating a rift between the two. Remember also that boaties pay rego and have as much right to be there as you do! I suggest you get used to it or stay at home.

Geez Gator, that's a tad inflammatory don't you think? The "kayaks paying rego" bit is akin to bicycles paying it. Totally unworkable, and just about a no brainer if you really think about it.

Whether people can help themselves or not, to say that "get used to it" is a valid response to people acting like a$$holes on the water is... well... dumb. OK? People SHOULD have an idea of the Law - they got a license, didn't they? They are not allowed that close, they should not get that close, they are rude at best, and a deadly hazard at worst.

I have a 7 metre fibreglass boat. I got buzzed at maybe 10 metres while at anchor (50 metres required) and 15 knots by a 50 foot Riv. Nearly turned me over. Should I just get used to it? No, I should have let him have it with a ten ball. He couldn't hear me yelling at him over his engines.

The wash Law pertains to when you are in certain zones, or near boats, it is not an "everywhere out there" Law. It makes that clear, I'm sure.

Cheers,

Tim

GBC
18-04-2009, 01:42 PM
Timi,

old mate in the yak got buzzed by someone who wasn't breaking any laws. He slowed right down so I don't think your two situations are even close.

I am tending to agree with gator on this one - I've fished from a canoe (15ft rosco) since when only greenies had them and they definitely weren't trendy, still do. Every craft has its place, and I think if you're going to paddle a kilometre offshore from redcliffe to a piece of well known reef and assume that you're the only vessel who has the mark for a particular rock, and that you're the only one who'se going to be there all morning - you're a bit precious.
Try putting it on the roof and driving somewhere that boats can't launch, with a few snags to keep the outboards out and find out where yaks/canoes really come into their own.

I think the bit about the law was to highlight just how many maritime laws are systematically not heeded in day to day boating . Correct me if I'm wong Gator.

oldboot
18-04-2009, 04:13 PM
Now for starters section 128 applies and where anytime.

There is a problem that marine law at the moment does not cater for or deal with a whole range of recreational craft.

It has only recently caught up with personal water craft.

It has very specific and long stsnding provisions for sail craft.

But there seems to be no specific arrangements for manualy powered craft that travel and significant distance.....the only expectations is that there might be a few rowing boats and they wont go far.

There have been no specific laws to control sail boards or kite surfing, in my view these two items are at least as dangerous as a PWC and often less controlable.

There seems to be no acknowledgment of wakeboards, they just get lumped in with skiers.

I think there needs to be some serious revision of marine law to cover what sort of craft are arround these days.

cheers

sharkymark2
23-04-2009, 07:26 AM
Hey Just_Chips I'm in a 15 foot half cab and just hate it when other boaties come up my berley trail. My weekends are Tues and weds :) thank God for that. After experiencing fishing on weekends its enough to turn you into a ********* pirate. Wanting to spray a few shots around and board the other boat and take them ransom :).

SandStorm
02-06-2009, 05:26 AM
My weekends are Tues and weds :) thank God for that. After experiencing fishing on weekends its enough to turn you into a ********* pirate. Wanting to spray a few shots around and board the other boat and take them ransom :).

Snap my weekends are anything other than weekends....

spelchek
04-06-2009, 12:07 PM
As has been said several times - it's not just boat drivers who show no consideration. It's also not just amateurs - old mate and I were very nearly pushed onto the Maloolabah rock wall one night by one of the pilot boats who was not even close to the 6knott limit. Scared the bejeebus out of us, I can tell you.

uglyfish
04-06-2009, 04:19 PM
Yes in deed the letter of the law as per the 6 knot rule does not apply to boats underway. IE not at anchor,aground or made fast to the shore.

However there is a general specificaly stated and implied responisbility placed upon all masters to operate their craft in a way that does not cause damage or danger to any other craft or structure.

check out section 221 of the qld regulations

especilay check out section 128.

A person must not operate a ship at a speed at which the ship's wash is reasonably capable of causing-

(a) a marine incident or
(b) damage to the shorel

Maximum penalty 200 penalty units...........a penalty unit is currently $75 i believe.

Remember it isn't all in the boating and safety guide.

cheers
A penlaty unit is now $100

trymyluck
04-06-2009, 07:05 PM
Ok wheres my soapbox

Bikes on roads, no rego, no insurance. Now some will say that they have a right to be there. Ok but they should have a obligation to maintain a speed relevant to the speed limit and conditions so as not to create a hazard, (same as all road users should drive at a speed that does not create a hazard due to road conditions or weather conditions) if they can not then get off the road!!8-)They should still be treated with courtesy as all road users.

Canoes and yacs on the waterways, they are designed for certain conditions and areas, so they should not expect special treatment other then courtesy when they venture into an area where they were not designed for. By being on the water in areas where it is reasonable that boats will be operating at speed they create a risk to themselves and everyone else.( I'm not talking about being anchored or moored ) Being small and hard to see, how many try to reduce that risk by wearing easy to see clothing or flashing led lights. Recently at Mooloolaba i was amaised to see just on dusk people on kayacs and outrigger canoes coming into the harbour without any consideration that they are a hazard to themselves and everyother person on the water. Did they have a right to be there, probably but they also have an obligation to do so safely. At the end of the day everyone should be considerate of other people and consider how their actions impact others. It works both ways.
Mark

Ok hard hat and kevlar coat now on.;D;D

BAT
04-06-2009, 07:46 PM
I remember an instance when flicking some sand bank drop off's on the goldy for flatty's when I turned a corner to find two blokes with their hobbie kayaks pulled up on shore with one lunging back on a lenny wong.
In their kayaks They had sounder's fishing rod's in holder's quite the package looked good, but you may need to be of your tree to own one.

Cheer's BAT.