2010 emission laws. Honda & E-tec vs The rest

[Jabba_]

OK, as it stands right now Honda and E-tec are the only 2 outboard manufactures that will meet the new 2010 emission laws across there whole range off motors for there CO levels....
I can understand why the E-tec has very low emissions being direct injected, and only inject fuel when both ports are closed. Meaning no unburnt fuel escapes into the atmosphere.

But how does the Honda achieve it's low CO levels. It is not a DI, so it mixes the fuel with air in front off the valve before it enters the cylinder... What ever Honda have done to get those very low CO levels, they have done it well...

My main question is, why haven't the other 4st manufactures started lowering there CO emissions from there motors..

CO is a odorless killer.....

[FNQCairns]

Basic lean burn technology, always the same dog just with a different name to snaz it up as something new...er.

High combustion temperatures and precise real time sensor fuel/air metering makes this magic come alive.

cheers fnq

[Spaniard_King]

OK, as it stands right now Honda and E-tec are the only 2 outboard manufactures that will meet the new 2010 emission laws across there whole range off motors for there CO levels....
I can understand why the E-tec has very low emissions being direct injected, and only inject fuel when both ports are closed. Meaning no unburnt fuel escapes into the atmosphere.

But how does the Honda achieve it's low CO levels. It is not a DI, so it mixes the fuel with air in front off the valve before it enters the cylinder... What ever Honda have done to get those very low CO levels, they have done it well... They simply put an O2 sensor in the exhaust to give the EMM some feedback on what happened durring combustion

My main question is, why haven't the other 4st manufactures started lowering there CO emissions from there motors..

CO is a odorless killer.....

Certainly will be interesting if the CARB introdues more stringent regulations. I will be interested to see how long the 2 stroke can compete;)

[Jabba_]

Certainly will be interesting if the CARB introduces more stringent regulations. I will be interested to see how long the 2 stroke can compete;)
From what I understand the E-tec 2st is already passed the next level off EPA emission regulations. so to is Honda..... Personally I think any 2st running the Orbital injection system will suffer big time..... Merc is already feeling the pain as there Racing department was shut down buy EPA regulations on the engines emissions...

There is more room to develop the E-tec for it to be a better motor. BRP are very clever at what they do, and I am sure they have thought far into the future in regards to EPA emission Reg's..... As you said Honda uses O2 sensors.. I am sure you will see them on the 2st sooner or later...
I also think Cat converters will make there way onto all new marine engines with in the next 5-10 years, or maybe sooner...

[Noelm]

I think what it comes down to is, almost any manufacturer can exceed the levels needed, but as in all things, it comes at a price, whether that price be dollars or performance, the trick is to meet the requirements at a level that makes you competitive.

[Mindi]

Certainly will be interesting if the CARB introdues more stringent regulations. I will be interested to see how long the 2 stroke can compete;)

well no..it will be interesting to see how long the scavenged carby 2 stroke will last...the DI ones are already well ahead of 4 strokes on emission reduction only Honda in the hunt. It's not the 2 or 4 cycles that are the problem..it is how and when the fuel is delivered.

[Wahoo]

all i know is, that in 2010, i'll still be scooting around in my 4st, being a 2008 or a 2009 mod

[Mindi]

Have found a spreadsheet summarising the USA certifiaction data and pulled out a sample of 75s and 90s in an attempt to show that you cant sensibly make statements generalising about 2 strokes or 4 strokes...but have to talk about fuel delivery technology when discussing emissions etc. I think the master sheet of this was compiled by Gary Fooks from American EPA test data. Just picked 75/90 as a sample, all data is available from 2 - 300HP.

This shows that the Honda is outstanding at Carbon Monoxide and the other 4 strokes not nearly as good. ...and that the DIs are slightly better than the 4s at Hydrocarbons and Nitrogen Oxides. The carbied 2 strokes are clearly on borrowed time wouldnt you think..?

But clearly the lowest emission engines are DI 2 strokes at the moment. As a Mercury owner I'll leave it to Jabba to point out which one is the lowest emission outboard on the market when all considered including lubricating oil (not counted in 4 strokes certification).

[bushbeachboy]

I'm really not too worried at all. In 2010 I'll still be running around with my old-tech carby 2 stroke. Should last me about another 20 years, and by then what we are calling new technology today, will be out of date etc.

[Mindi]

I'm really not too worried at all. In 2010 I'll still be running around with my old-tech carby 2 stroke. Should last me about another 20 years, and by then what we are calling new technology today, will be out of date etc.

and it's very hard to imagine any legislative move against exisiting motors...but new ones will be a different matter. My point is not to run a green argument but to make the point that the term "2 stroke" has become a bit meaningless in this discussion.

[Shanoss]

Doesnt this happen every couple of years? I still see old carby and EFI 2 smokes being made and sold and they dont meet any of the emissions "guidelines". It certainly wont be happening in the next couple of years with the current economic situation.

[Mindi]

Doesnt this happen every couple of years? I still see old carby and EFI 2 smokes being made and sold and they dont meet any of the emissions "guidelines". It certainly wont be happening in the next couple of years with the current economic situation.
Well that is not quite true...it has already happened (past tense) in California which is a bigger economy than Aust and probably the biggest outboard market in the world....so it is just sensible to expect that it will go that way here in time. Hey I'm no greenie..but these trends happen and moving gradually towards cleaner engines is probably a good idea..?...but you are right that recessions slow these changes down so we wont turn into California too quickly

[Spaniard_King]

Doesnt this happen every couple of years? I still see old carby and EFI 2 smokes being made and sold and they dont meet any of the emissions "guidelines". It certainly wont be happening in the next couple of years with the current economic situation.

Whils the outboard manufacturers still have a reasonable market in countries where EPA regulations don' exist they will continue to manufacture cheap engines which are way off from being enviromentally friendly.:-/

[Zooter]

Im no greenie either, but makes sense for us all to do what we can to preserve the future of fishing and boating for all generations to come :)

Why all motors arnt EFI has got be beat,

For the extra $$ you gunna save in the long run with fuel costs and emissions

my2cents:)