self inflicted pain.

[mangomick]

Heading out the other day and thought id swing over from #1 battery to # 2 battery on the run.
After a while I look down to see voltmeter swinging at top end of voltmeter before crashing to zero volts.
I turned off the motor swung back to #1 battery and nothing. no start on either battery 1 or 2 .
Further check shows main 20 amp fuse blown. Change out the fuse and blows again as soon as key turned.
Obviously lesson learnt....dont change from battery 1 to 2 on run but what sort of damage could I have done. its an Evinrude 115hp Ocean pro.
Im figuring maybe a rectifier down to ground. What other sort of damage could I have caused.
I've swung over on the run before and no problems
Any help would be appreciated.

[Marlin_Mike]

cant help you, but i have always been told never switch over on the run, turn motor off first

Mike

[griz066]

Have a look here may be some help

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=145744

[garman1]

maybe turned the switch thrue the off position rather than going thrue the two batteries combined then to the 2nd battery maybe?

[mangomick]

No never went through the off position. Standard switch iether #1 battery, both or #2 battery and off .
I swung over to # 2 when I had about 20 minutes running left initially. I pulled up after getting to the edge of the fishing grounds and after a while went to move on and # 2 wouldnt start. Started on #1 battery and while on the move again swung back to #2 battery. Everything seemed fine then noticed voltmeter off scale and then crash to zero.
I turned motor off and switched over to # 1 battery and then no start on either
battery. When checking out further found batteries ok but main 20 amp fuse blown. replaced and 20 amp fuse keeps blowing.
At no stage did switch go to off position .

[levinge]

Ouch, sounds like a trip to the shop to sus out the problem

[Roughasguts]

Forget your 2 way switch for a start! by pass that, and hook up a battery straight to your motor. If it starts and charges without blowing a fuse then good.
You have a stuffed switch is all.

[fisho85]

roughasguts is on the right track the prosess of elimination is the way to go, but if it only happens when you crank the motor then it may be internal.

keep me posted

[mangomick]

Ouch, sounds like a trip to the shop to sus out the problem

Heading off to NZ on Sunday for a few weeks so I might worry about it after I get back. Theres a 2 week wait to get into the shop . I wouldnt have thought dicky switch would just blow motor fuse but it would just prevent a start but I guess I've got to start somewhere. Sounder GPS radio and pumps all work. I'm thinking if switch was faulty nothing would work .Booked in for when I get home anyway just in case. Hope I've got some /plenty of cash left.

[Roughasguts]

Open up your Battery switch and see if any thing has melted.

Your radios and sounders can work okay cause they draw a little current.

But as soon as you crank with Big Amps then the wires get hot! and blow a fuse first. Mainly cause the switch can no longer handle the Amps due to internal damage.

Well in theory it goes that way.

Cheers

[Dignity]

I guess you need to ascertain whether it is the switch or not as RAGS says. If not the switch it could be the battery was pretty well on its way out and basically shorted out. I have had it happen in a car but never in a boat luckily, you couldn't even jump start the car with a brand new battery and the other vehicle running its motor.

I am not sure why changing batteries while running is bad for the motor (unless 1 of the batteries is shorted out). I guess I just found the reason. I don't think that going to the off position first is a problem though as the motors will run quite happily with out the battery power once running so would be interested as to any reasons.

[jtpython]

Have a good holiday Mick and forgt about work and ya worries for a while mate
Be safe
JT

[mangomick]

Thanks JT. You watch the weather turn great from sunday on;)
Back to the problem
Went to check switch and found the pos line from 2 way switch to motor is protected by a 25 amp fuse which is not blown. Changed it to a 10 amp fuse rather than pick switch to pieces and 20 amp fuse in motor blows as soon as ignition switch is turned and 10 amp under size fuse stays intact. Guess that rules out faulty switch.
Thought I might disconnect leads from solenoid tomorrow and check ohms across solenoid. Think I might be grasping at straws though because solenoid looks fairly robust and cant imagine shorting to earth.some one told me that usually solenoids that are fairly robust will usually just go open circuit
Does anyone know what sort of OHMS I should be looking at.does a resistance of 0.6 ohms to pull more than 20 amps sound right .
Starting to look more and more like job for techo by the minute.
I guess I should go get a manual;D ;D

[Roughasguts]

I use to play with comercial washing machines, and from memory a good solenoid was 20,000 Ohm. A stuffed one a lot less.

[Catlover]

Heading out the other day and thought id swing over from #1 battery to # 2 battery on the run.
After a while I look down to see voltmeter swinging at top end of voltmeter before crashing to zero volts.
I turned off the motor swung back to #1 battery and nothing. no start on either battery 1 or 2 .
Further check shows main 20 amp fuse blown. Change out the fuse and blows again as soon as key turned.
Obviously lesson learnt....dont change from battery 1 to 2 on run but what sort of damage could I have done. its an Evinrude 115hp Ocean pro.
Im figuring maybe a rectifier down to ground. What other sort of damage could I have caused.
I've swung over on the run before and no problems
Any help would be appreciated.

I have seen the wires on the back of the guages come loose and touch together
causing it to blow the main engine fuse. Hope that helps.

[trymyluck]

Mate
Sounds like you have saved me a few dollars, I've done the same thing a number of times and never had a problem but I think I'll go the safe route from now on.
Mark

[banksmister]

Does anyone know what sort of OHMS I should be looking at.does a resistance of 0.6 ohms to pull more than 20 amps sound right .
Starting to look more and more like job for techo by the minute.
I guess I should go get a manual;D ;D[/quote]


mate just 12volts divided by 0.6ohms =20amps

[fisho85]

Being a sparky, its starting to sound pritty bad, a work mate explained the same thing about the high voltage reading you got was a voltage spike that possibly screwed your coil pack and maybe your computer. fingers crossed for you that its not mate

[mangomick]

Being a sparky, its starting to sound pritty bad, a work mate explained the same thing about the high voltage reading you got was a voltage spike that possibly screwed your coil pack and maybe your computer. fingers crossed for you that its not mate

Computers fine mate. Im still able to get onto ausfish ;D ;D ;D

Joking Mate. Its a 07/1997 Evinrude Ocean Pro., carby job Dont know if it would even have a computer but I imagine there will probably be a few solid state bits and pieces in there somewhere.
Anyway just about to check ohms across solenoid and have another quick look at the gauges.
Cheers

[black runner]

If you are blowing the fuse with the ignition switch on but not yet in the start position you can forget about the starter solenoid as it is only energised when key is turned to start. You also mentioned that the motor continued to run after the meter crashed to zero (when the fuse blew) at which time you turned it off. Sounds like the motor and ignition side components may be ok and you have a short/failed component somewhere else.

Trace and check the wiring from the non supply side (componenet side) of the fuse in the engine and locate components that are connected. Disconnect (and insulate/tape any exposed connector) what you can and see if the fuse still blows. (don't start the motor). Connect back one at a time until you find the fuse blower.

[mangomick]

Thanks Black runner
The positive wire that comes off the 2 way switch and is protected by a 25 amp fuse that I thought went to the motor actually feeds the component bus behind the dash.The bilge p/p, macerator p/p for the dunny and fresh water p/p for the shower/deck wash which are fed from this bus are all protected by seperate 10 amp fuses and are all ok.
When you are talking about components on the non supply side of the fuse I guess you are talking about things like the optical ignition system ,which looks like it may be filled with electronic wizardry.
I'll see if I can disconnect them and turn the key to the first position without blowing another fuse.
I'm up to fuse number 9 already. I guess I'm keeping someone in work;D
Cheers

[Brejen]

Mick check your earth leads as well mate. I had the 115 suzuki on the Haines never had a problem with either of the batterys, switch etc. had the same sorta outcome as your describing blew all the fuses in everything except the motor itself. Process of elimination lead me to the main earth lead from the motor to the battery had given it up once changed all was good. Just something to have a look at as well.

Brett

[mangomick]

Thanks Brejen
Only fuse I'm blowing though is the 20 amp fuse in the motor. all other fuses ok.
I reckon black runner is heading me in right direction because 20 amp fuse in motor blows as soon as Ignition switch is turned to first position.
On the evinrude theres an optical igniton box of tricks that has a clear soft plastic cover which has wires running through it which looks a bit sus.

[snasman]

A possibility here is you may have damaged the alternator you are never to run an alternator in an open position as the output has nowhere to go ,so it back feeds and blows the internal diodes,fingers crossed thats not the problem

[mangomick]

How does it go...Stupid is as stupid does

Had a bit of a play this morning. Unplugged several components and narrowed down to what ever is fed from 1 of 2 similar 6 pin plugs. some of the wires lead up to coil pack but when I unplugged these and also to box of tricks near coil pack and reconnected 6 pin connecter still blew so possibly coil pack not the problem
Havent got time to strip insulation tape and remove btm shroud from outboard cover to track it down further so it can wait till I get home from holidays and i'll worry about it then. booked in to repair shop day I get home so I'll pick up the thread after i've been there and advise whats stuffed and how I probably caused it:'(

[Roughasguts]

I think now your volt gauge is stuffed.
If it went to full deflection!!! it probably melted and shorted internally.
By-pass that there volt gauge and try again, hopfully it's a crook gauge.

[mangomick]

Thanks Mate. Theres a thought.
Got the back pack all packed and flying out to do a bit of trecking over in NZ for 3 weeks but I'll give that a go before I drop it into the repair shop when I return.
cheers for that

[mangomick]

ROUGHASGUTS YOUR A BLOODY LEGEND
You were spot on Mate. Couldnt sleep so I jumped up crawled under the tarp with a torch and disconnected voltmeter and success. Motor cranking like a beauty. Bet the neighbours hate me;D
14 fuses later and finally got it. Wires to gauge same colur as one on the 6 pin plug that I had disconnected. Thanks Black runner as well. If I'd had the time to trace back from that 6 pin plug or had a manual It would have led me straight there .Bloody obvious really I suppose. Voltmeter off scale then died.
Thanks a heap fellers. I can go off treking now knowing I'm only up for a new gauge and not $quillions.
Cheers
Mangomick

[Roughasguts]

Thanks Mick.
No legend though! but always happy to help some one out thats mad enough to carry main fuses, plays with Ohm meters, and gets out of bed in the early hours just to work on a theory. (specially some of my weird theories)

Anyway I bet you have a better break with out wondering about how to fix your boat and that's the main thing.

Cheers.

[mangomick]

Rough as guts
You were close but not quite spot on. After buying and fitting new Amp meter when I got home realised that working under the tarp with torch I'd missed the fact that the Tacho was still unplugged. fault was a short in the gauges but it was the card in the tacho and self check gauges that had shorted.
Pulled the tacho to pieces last night for a look and a diode had blown and the pin for the plug that goes to one of the self check LEDs had melted.
Lesson learnt. Dont switch over from one battery to another on the run.
$368 for new tacho and $70 for voltmeter. $100 for workshop to confirm tacho is the problem. Carton of crownies for good samaritan who towed me home
Thanks every one for your help. it was a good learning experience even if it was costly
Cheers