PDA

View Full Version : Parsun Outboards Update



fish2eat
23-02-2009, 10:22 AM
Poor old (1982) Mrs Johnson died on the weekend on my crabbing tinnie, leaving me with a 1.5km row back to the ramp.:'(

I know we did a thread on Parsun outboards in mid 2008, but nearly a year has passed and I'm wanting to hear feedback from anyone who has bought a 2stroke Parsun (or knows somebody who has) as to how they are going after being available in Aus for a couple of years now. I'm looking at a 15hp but info on any of the 2strokes should start to give us a picture if problems of reliability and service etc are appearing.

Anyone got experience to share??

Thanks

Stu

Coontakinta
23-02-2009, 11:27 AM
buy a tohie;)

Geez, stu sorry to hear that fella. Any row back to shore is unfortuneate.

I'm sure many would be watching this thread with great interest. My advice, if $ are an issue, look at tohatsu's. However, if my recent experience is anything to go buy, their reputation must be getting around because the portables are creeping ever closer to the competition.:'(

finga
23-02-2009, 11:57 AM
Poor old (1982) Mrs Johnson died on the weekend on my crabbing tinnie, leaving me with a 1.5km row back to the ramp.:'(

Stu
It's a bugger when the crabber turns into the exercise machine :P
What happened to Mrs Johnson??
Any idea like no spark or water coming out the spark plugs??

fish2eat
23-02-2009, 01:24 PM
It's a bugger when the crabber turns into the exercise machine :P
What happened to Mrs Johnson??
Any idea like no spark or water coming out the spark plugs??

She started making the kind of sound that says "this is going to cost you more than I'm worth" lol I noticed a change in tone that it got a kind of rattle. It was only at about 2/3rds throttle but I'd say (before stripping it down) that a con rod or bearing has given way on one cyl and its very stiff to turn over with the pull start....very stiff.

Naturally I'm having holidays in 2 weeks, these things always happen at the most inconvenient time.....although I do have a Quinnie Coast Runner, but sometimes its just easier to launch and old 12footer when going out alone.

Therefore as its not my primary craft, I am looking at the $$$ aspect of a replacement.

The one good thing we can thank Parsun for is dragging the prices down of the more established brands

stevej
23-02-2009, 04:11 PM
ive only had alook at them at the boat show and they look cheap put a yammy next to them and little things stand out like casting imperfections bolt quality etc

id go a tohatsu if money is the issue proven built like bullets run alittle rough but no worse then the 1982 model your replacing

id have no qualms buying a tohatsu let someone else be the guinea pig

bushbeachboy
23-02-2009, 04:27 PM
Good reviews on Parsun on the seamedia website.

fish2eat
24-02-2009, 07:54 AM
Nobody bought one?? can't be a good sign

Dirtysanchez
24-02-2009, 12:43 PM
I can't believe that no one has bought one, I heard some boat yards were offering them on ready to go packages, so they must be out there.

stevej
24-02-2009, 03:15 PM
my guess is they are sold to people who are new to boating, the price point apeals to them, and again new to boating and probably have never been to a site like this

the packages are within 500-1k of a brand name package i wouldnt risk the cash tbh

mr_boats
07-09-2009, 08:38 AM
I'm the Australian(East Coast) distributor for the Parsun outboard range. There have been over 1000 sold within Australia. Not including the WA distributors (West Rib's) sales. We still have not had any power head blow ups or gearbox blow ups. We fully tested these motors out for 2 years prior to offering them for sale in Australia. The quality of these motors is exactly the same as any other brand on the market today and in some cases better.
If there is anyone parsun customers out there that has any issues with their motor please contact Island Marine on 02 9532-0002 so we can assist you immediately as customer service and back-up is our 1 priority.
Thanks
Garry

tigermullet
07-09-2009, 09:18 AM
A friend tried to buy a new Parsun 15hp a couple of weeks ago. They're like hen's teeth apparently - all sold out by dealers around here (Brisbane and Gold Coast).

He ended up buying a second hand 15hp Tohatsu and is happy with that but would have bought a Parsun if he didn't have to wait for delivery.

I'd buy one and probably will in the near future.

dnej
07-09-2009, 10:25 AM
http://www.seamedia.com.au/streamingVideo/parsun-15hp-2stroke_lg.php

A video on the subject at hand
David

Coontakinta
07-09-2009, 01:35 PM
As the man in the video implies. Time will tell!

Everything shiny & new glissens like gold!

Blaster Bretty
07-09-2009, 06:30 PM
Fish mate, I would just go for it man! Mr boats up above is the salesman and all so you should have no qualms there! one thing you will find on here is a lot of guys telling you dont buy parson because they themselve's own a different brand, we all think our brand of motor is better , more reliable and more fuel efficient than the other brands so I say you be the judge mate! hell you could buy any one of the top brands and still end up with a lemon, they are motors after all!

Bretty

marty+jojo
07-09-2009, 06:47 PM
Like Mr Boats said, there are plenty out there. I work for a transport company and i have seen plenty come through our depot.
Marty.

gazza2006au
07-09-2009, 06:59 PM
parsun i think is seaking aswell they have 15hp motors for $1500 here in nsw! i done a youtube for seaking and some very old models come up so they cant be all that bad really

BaitThrower
07-09-2009, 07:33 PM
Interesting topic. Can't say I have seen one out on the water yet, but I suppose they are indeed out there. Good luck to them I say if they are actually as good as they claim. Apparently I think they are a copy of some old Yamaha outboards? At least I read that somewhere, with parts being interchangeable?

mr_boats
08-09-2009, 01:15 PM
Seaking motors did come out of the same factory 2 years ago. What they are selling is old stock.
Parsun outboards Australia holds the sole rights for Australia in conjunction with a company in WA called West Ribs. (They have the WA rights.) We work together very closely to promote the parsun brand. Seaking brand is now no longer allowed to bring engines into the country from the Parsun factory due to contracts between Parsun china and Parsun Australia. Parsun Australia also holds the trademark for parsun. NOTE: Sea king are only offering 1 year warranty(If any) and also note Parsun Australia won't warranty any seaking branded engine because these motors have not gone through the Parsun Australia's professional dealer network.
All official Parsun dealerships have to comply to a very strict set of conditions so they are capable of servicing every customers needs.

FNQCairns
08-09-2009, 01:58 PM
Fish mate, I would just go for it man! Mr boats up above is the salesman and all so you should have no qualms there! one thing you will find on here is a lot of guys telling you dont buy parson because they themselve's own a different brand, we all think our brand of motor is better , more reliable and more fuel efficient than the other brands so I say you be the judge mate! hell you could buy any one of the top brands and still end up with a lemon, they are motors after all!

Bretty

Mine is! but if I owned yours I would have a rethink..LOL

cheers fnq

Blaster Bretty
08-09-2009, 07:47 PM
Mine is! but if I owned yours I would have a rethink..LOL

cheers fnq
Ha Ha yeah thats pretty clever FNQ.... I got a giggle out of that!
an intersting point now you brought it up FNQ, On nuggets web site I had a look at a poll on the best brand of out board's, of all the replies there was no mention of good old mrs johnson :'( so guess what mate .... bretty owns a johnno,:( so on the down side (for me anyway) your reply was not so silly after all!


Bretty

Suntzu
08-09-2009, 10:31 PM
That got too dear. parsun is dearer than a new tohatsu in the 30 hp 2 st electric start. i emailed them and they never replied so I got a DT30l at a good rate!

Michael_R
09-09-2009, 12:28 AM
What is all the fuss about? I will definately be buying a Parsun in a couple of months time for my 15 footer. Just because they are much more competitively priced doesn't mean that they must be crap. In fact, the other big brand names have been overcharging us for too long now so it's about time that a competitor like Parsuns have joined the party. I have many friends that own boats with different outboards from Mercury's, Yammy's, Suzuki etc and most have had a problem or two eventually. Even if you get unlucky with your decision to buy a Parsun and you find yourself having to pay more money in maintanance than other outboards, you have still started up to a few grand ahead to begin with!

I for one will give one a go very shortly and with the stringent testing they do on every outboard, I really doubt that I will get let down.

Thats my two cents worth on the topic anyway...:P 8-) :P

gazza2006au
09-09-2009, 12:43 AM
is parsun = china made, other brands = japanese made?

Michael_R
09-09-2009, 09:04 AM
is parsun = china made, other brands = japanese made?

Yes Gazza. Something like that. I know for sure that Parsun is Chinese and all the others are not.

FNQCairns
09-09-2009, 11:07 AM
Ha Ha yeah thats pretty clever FNQ.... I got a giggle out of that!
an intersting point now you brought it up FNQ, On nuggets web site I had a look at a poll on the best brand of out board's, of all the replies there was no mention of good old mrs johnson :'( so guess what mate .... bretty owns a johnno,:( so on the down side (for me anyway) your reply was not so silly after all!


Bretty

Don't feel bad about owning a Johno, cutting through all the emotional outboard chest beating bias, if a person bought a new 16 foot fishing boat 40 years ago and wanted to go fishing in it tomorrow, odds are compared to any other engine brand - if they bought it with a Johrude they could still use that very same engine....no other manufacturer came close and they only stopped selling these equivalent engines a few years ago.

cheers fnq

stevej
09-09-2009, 07:30 PM
you get what you pay for plain and simple i saw the quality of them at a local boat show and they don't look up to the standard of other brands, i popped the cowls on what was there and they look cheap (well someone else can buy a few and prove me wrong here i wouldn't be wasting my cash on one) i know that within 45 mins drive of my home there are 7 places to buy parts for my Yamaha outboard, and almost every town i go holidaying in has a yammy dealer within a hour or twos drive and those same yards will have someone who has worked on that model an dcan repair the issue the tohatsus are good engines and comeptivley priced, i be looking at these first, not cloned made in china copies china can make quality and china can make shit, we import product and the quality of the end product depends on the profit margins you want to make

Michael_R
09-09-2009, 11:03 PM
Fair enough Steve. Based on what you have said, I will also consider buying a Tohatsu for my runabout instead. What price difference do you think there would be between a 40hp Parsun vs a 40hp Tohatsu?

gazza2006au
10-09-2009, 01:16 AM
i have owned chinese and japanese motor bikes the chinese quality leaves abit to be desired even tho they look flash and all modern there still made from chinese quality meterial

mr_boats
17-09-2009, 10:07 AM
Thanks for everyone's comments.
Hey Steve could you tell us more of what you thought looked cheap underneath the cowling??? As I can still remember my first look at the the very first 15hp I got sent from parsun 4 years (This motor was the one of the very first motors off the production line) ago to test in Australia and my first reaction is the same as all my customers, new dealers I sign up and even the same response as you can see from Peter Webster and Ruth Cummingham from F & B test video. That response was I personally thought that I was going to see some 2nd rate chinese product (Like those motor bikes everyone keeps bringing up) but upon inspection I was well surprised about the quality of these motors. Fair to say I was very impressed. Let me know what items you think were cheap looking. What I'll do is take a picture of that part and let the readers see for themselves. I think this is a fair thing to do.
As for manufacturing in china you'd be suprised how many of the major brands already manufacture thier motors in china or at least manufacture the parts in china. For example Mercury. I thought this was common knowledge but it doesn't seem to be. Mercury produces most of thier 40hp and below motors in China. Actually in the same suburb just down the road from parsun. See this link:

http://www.latinoaug.org/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/ITC_HP/ITC_BUSINESS_FOCUS/ITC_FEATURED_PROJECTS/ITC_SUCCESS_STORIES/MERCURY%20MARINE_CHINA.PDF

or off the mercury website

http://wwwarchive.mercurymarine.com/china

The major brands have had a strangle hold on the market since day 1. They have been overcharging especially in Australia. I can tell you from my experience in the Marine industry the dealers aren't makeing a killing from selling outboards. Thier main profit is in the accessories they fit to the boats and then the margins on the hulls not the motors. The larger outboard companies put huge amounts of pressure on the dealership to sell certain QTY's each year otherwise thier dealership or rebates are under threat. Parsun motors on most models are a whole lot cheaper without skimping on quality and the best thing of all is the dealers actually make a dollar out of the deal so they can stay around. Remeber if your dealer isn't there who is going to look after your boat?
When it also comes to spares for servicing you won't have to dish out alot of money there either.
A perfect example is:
Kill switch and lanyard which over the period of years gets alot of use and needs replacing just from wear and tear.
Major Brand cost R/R$127.50
Parsun prce $25.00
Now when you personally look at that part, what would you think it should cost to replace? Thats normally the price parsun is charging.
Anther part:
Carby for a 15hp
Major brand $380.50
Parsun $80
Brand new parsun 15hp Power packs $99- retail. How many of you guys out ther have dished out hundreds dollars for that part???
Parsun Australia is just in the middle now of setting up a Parsun spare parts website that both trade and public can buy directly off. (The trade are already starting to purchase Parsun parts off us already) So If you not able to come into a Parsun shop for the parts, the money you'll save on the parts you'll be able to afford the $10 postage costs and save the time of jumping in the car and heading down to the shop. We'll deliever it to your door.
Please note everybody our main goal here is to make boating fair and affordable for people. I love getting out on the water you can't beat it. If I'm able to offer other people quality products at a fair price to get them out onto the water so they can have a good time, well thats great.

Coontakinta
17-09-2009, 11:18 AM
MR_boats, so what, if any, point will there be in dealers selling parts to the public if I can buy it from the same place, over the net, for the same price? Or have I read your post above wrong?

Further its all well n good to say we are cheaper for this or that part, but who is to say that it will always be the case? Its not uncommon for any new brand to sell at a reduced margin to win over those who may otherwise be sceptical of the new kid on the block.

Further, no comparison using those parts manufactured in China for Mercury & others. As you say, "built in another factory down the road." Just because that factory is also in China does not mean that they share the same quality control or source the same quality materials.

In time, I have little doubt that manufacturing in China will equal that of Japan, but in my mind at least there is still a long way to go and I will stick to a tried n proven before I outlay any money on an untested. Time may prove me & others very wrong & some may save a bucket load on an outstanding peice of engineering beauty, but I'll let others be the guinea pig.

The other thing, in my mind that works against the brand, is the lack of suitable dealers. Here in SA, I believe we have one dealer who is a relative small player in market place. If something goes wrong it can be a long trip to get things fixed. Unfortuneatly, this is something not unique to Parsun as I feel that its a failing of Tohatsu as well.

I guess as a buyer, it all comes down to the cost and a parsun might be the difference between getting into boating & staying a landlover, but the REAL cost may come when it comes time to upgrade to a larger or different boat.

mr_boats
17-09-2009, 04:11 PM
Hi Coontakinta

No you haven't read it wrong. The point is the consumer is able to buy parts through a delearship or online. Its gives the customer 2 options to choose from. There are some customers in rural areas that don't have a mechanic within hours of thier place this gives them the option to get the parts delievered. I've come across this situation in other parts of my business. I sell alot of marine electronics online throughout australia and I keep seeing to same towns and suburbs popping up in our delievery dockets. Mainly mining towns, there must be nothing out there. Buying online is essential to these people. Your Also asking "Why would customers be bothered buying off a dealer if they can do it online?". Once again it's purely up to the customer to purchase where he wants to buy from. If your not sure your getting the correct part or you need some advice then heading to a dealership would be the better option.
When you say there is no comparision between companies manufacturing in china I totally agree with you. Most people compare the parsun outboards to those cheap junkie motor bikes coming out of china. Parsun's quality is much better then those bikes Quality is what makes a good product Parsun is constantley asking me to send them reports on any issues I may have come across and any imporovments they could make on the brand. They are very dedicated to Quality. As thier own catch phrase is "Quality is power" Keep in mind Parsun is not a new company they have been desiging and manufactoring for over 30 years and there parent company is the worlds 3rd largest generator company. They started producing outboards due to thier clients in the UK asking them to give outboards ago.
As for time will tell all we have to do is wait and forums like this will provide the best feedback and thats why I spend the time on here as just anther way I can monitor the brand. The engines have now been in Australia for just under 2 years. I've still got the first 15hp which I've had here for 4 years. I've giving this thing the hardest time http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/islandinflatables/RIBflying.jpg
And it's still going strong. I've driven this motor to break it. I've done every thing I can apart from running it into some rocks and its still going strong.
So time is now getting on, as I said it's been 2 years I think the 5 year mark will be able to answer all those questions.
In reference the dealerships throughout australia. We are accumulating more and more dealerships. Inbetween Jan and June we didn't attempt to do any dealership drives as the marine industry was hit very hard. Most marine shops were just trying to stay afloat let alone taking on a new brand to promote. The last couple of months we have had alot of interest and talking with several marine stores about taking on the parsun and Island brands. You'll see on our website's front page when we open a new dealership.
When it comes to pricing yes of course it's going to go up. A new brand can't come in at the same price as a known brand. They won't survive. In 2 years there has already been 1 price rise but also know its the Australian dollar value that controls the end price for us.
If anyone has any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Thanks
Garry

Coontakinta
17-09-2009, 04:39 PM
Gotta hand it to ya Gary.

I think u'll have ya work cut out for you, but if your product is any good & the after sales service matches that of your willingness to participate in an open discussion about the product, then perhaps, just maybe, we will see the emergence of another contender.

Whether Parsun reaches the dizzying heights of the major players or the relative obsurity of the Tohatsu brand (yes, I love em too, but believe me, many have never heard of em either) remains to be seen.

I wish you the best of luck with it.

mr_boats
17-09-2009, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the wishes Coontakinta.
No doubt there is a long way to go but I think I've pasted one of the hardest stages already. I just have to keep moving forward and make sure the product is good and the customers (and the dealers) are happy.
Cheers
Garry

BM
17-09-2009, 09:56 PM
If the Parson engines come anywhere remotely close to the major brands in price then the brand will die a natural death.

People trust Mercury, Yamaha, Evinrude etc etc

What warranty support do you provide for your Parson engines? What warranty turnaround times? What stock of spare parts do you have IMMEDIATELY available, and READY FOR SHIPPING??

My experience with importers of these Chinese branded outboards is that backup service is POOR, spare parts is even poorer, and warranty claims are put off as "we need to get more spare parts over here".... before we can provide you with parts...

For anyone considering buying any one of the numerous branded Chinese outboards in the marketplace currently, have a very good chat with the distributor because many of these "groups" are fly by nighters, looking to fleece as many people as they can and spare parts will not be available .

As always, BUYER BEWARE. A cheap outboard will not be cheap at all when the piece of shite importer carries no spare parts. I believe the Parson (and similar) branded outboards carry nil stock (or close to nil) of spare parts in Australia.

BUYER BEWARE......

rowanda
17-09-2009, 11:03 PM
"A cheap outboard will not be cheap at all when the piece of shite importer carries no spare parts. I believe the Parson (and similar) branded outboards carry nil stock (or close to nil) of spare parts in Australia."

I believe.......statements like this are not going to help anyone. I myself have never had a Parson, but would look at one if I was in the market for a new motor.
Before posting things like this it would've been nice to ask MR_BOATS as he would be and I am sure he will be able to answer any questions.
From what I can see he isn't trying to hide anything and is openly giving and receiving feedback, can't say that about many manufacturers.
You will always get a dud every now and then in any brand....yes...even the famous Yamaha, I have had 2 and had trouble with both, but it wouldn't bother me to buy another tomorrow.
Bring on the competition, it may be yourself that buys a Parsun or similar outboard, or if they take off, then maybe the other manufacturers will get serious and look at their pricing.

lee8sec
18-09-2009, 07:20 AM
I love the way nearly every one bitches about the cost of outboards( rightly so, absolute joke for what you get) but then call the new cheaper alternitives junk, often without knowing bugger all about them. If they increase the price does that make them better? Leigh

toecutter
18-09-2009, 07:58 AM
If the motor is basically a copy of another manufacturers motor this would ring alarm bells to me. It suggests to me that the maker has little R & D investment and I would begin to wonder if this extends to other areas like selection of alloys and plastics for all the various components etc.

I agree with another poster here in that I saw one of these outboards on a Chinese BMT package at the Airlie Beach boat show in June and thought that for the overall price saving compared to a "regular" BMT package that the value wasn't that great when overall quality of finish was compared.

I guess the other side of the coin is that most recreational use outboards don't actually die as a result of total runtime wearing them out, so you could look at it like that cheapo chinese power tool you have in the shed that you went cheap on just because you know you won't be using it that much.

Having said that, I'm not sure I would be comfortable beating back to the ramp when the weather's gone to shite knowing that my safety is depending on something that was built around price first and quality second.

Of course I could be wrong. How many commercial guys are using these?

Coontakinta
18-09-2009, 09:56 AM
If the motor is basically a copy of another manufacturers motor this would ring alarm bells to me. It suggests to me that the maker has little R & D investment and I would begin to wonder if this extends to other areas like selection of alloys and plastics for all the various components etc.



Of course I could be wrong. How many commercial guys are using these?

Toe cutter some valid points I’m sure and can I just say from the outset that I’m not really supporting either side of the fence here as, at present I wouldn’t by one, but then I’m not going to shoot down the brand as I have no experience with it at all.

The comments about R&D are interesting and in some way valid, but could one not then argue that we should not trust mercury because they source some portables from Tohatsu. Should we not trust Toyota or Ford because they sourced models from Holden, Nissan, & Mazda? Again not trying to beat anyone up here, just trying to keep things balanced, and maybe learn a thing or to about these things.

As for the pro’s, perhaps its only a mater of time before they start to be seen on their boats, the $ speaks loudly to many and it is this that may actually be why there aren’t many already on the pro boats. Resale would be ridiculous I imagine and this, in my mind would have to influence any purchase made by them in regard to their trade. Maybe something for you to consider Gary? Subsidies / sponsorships? I’ll run one of your outboards on my bream tinnie for 5 years if you want to give one to me! Haha ha.

BM, also raised a valid point. I was always of the belief that, by law, manufacturers or dealers, what ever must keep a suitable quantity of spares in the country for products imported into that country. Now I sure as hell aint gonna dispute you if that’s not correct because I’m sure u have far more experience than I, but if things are as you say why haven’t these people been taken to task over it by the industry?

toecutter
18-09-2009, 10:05 AM
"Sourcing" components is somewhat different to "Copying" components

FNQCairns
18-09-2009, 10:09 AM
For me the biggest marketing point would be the list of establish brand part numbers that fully interchange with the chinese outboard, I simply couldn't buy one until I knew and trusted this.
if this became established in any trusted way then I would consider that it is easy to engineer a copy of a basic and already existing 2 stroke outboard, even the major players did it...just ask Yamaha.

cheers fnq

lee8sec
18-09-2009, 10:33 AM
Are they COPY'S or did they BUY the TOOLING, there is a BIG differance?

How many are joint ventures between the name brands & new companys based in china to lower there costs?

Do any of you realy know or are you just guessing? ::)

Its just the same as when japan came into the car game, then korea. Leigh

Braddles
18-09-2009, 10:38 AM
I find it interesting how so many people knock and criticise a product that they have NEVER used.

Would you be this rude to their face, or you just hide behind the internet?

This is someone's income, their livelyhood - and they are off their arse trying to do something, and trying to create some fairness and competition in the market. You may be happy to be ripped off by the established brands, but I am not.

A comparitive example; Look at Virgin. A low cost airline. No frills. E-tickets. No inflight catering standard. They started with retired aircraft from other carriers. BNE - SYD for $99 when I was paying $300+ on a regular basis. NOW LOOK. I dont have to spell it out - the changes that this brought into our domestic airline companies.

Mr Boats has remained professional (I would have told you to F888 off it you dont like it and keep being ripped off, long ago). He has even offered to post pictures of specific engine parts that people have posted as being 'inferior quality' to other brands.. On a public forum, where a lot of people have a LOT of experience, and a LOT of buying power en-mass... for public critique but people would rather keep rubbishing the products he is distributing, rather than try to reconcile the allegations over quality disparity....

You dont have to buy someone's product, and by all means you dont have to like it - but have some respect for this person if you dont have any for yourself...

*steps of soap box*

cormorant
18-09-2009, 11:19 AM
"
A comparitive example; Look at Virgin. A low cost airline. No frills. E-tickets. No inflight catering standard. They started with retired aircraft from other carriers. BNE - SYD for $99 when I was paying $300+ on a regular basis. NOW LOOK. I dont have to spell it out - the changes that this brought into our domestic airline companies. "


The difference here is that there are standards in aircraft and a set rule book . Outboards and you are talking the wild west so probably not a fair comparison but I do get your point.

If I was introducing a product and knew how people felt about "chineese crap" etc etc I would offer cheaper price and a longer "no quibbles" warranty to reassure the owners that we know our products will last. The issue with small outboards is that I would think that 90% of major failures are going to be user caused ( public in cheap end isn't that bright or experienced) and then you have a bad rep for not standing by the warranty. Only way around this would be to actually add something to the smaller outboards like overheat and oil quality warnings so there would be less failures in warranty but again that adds to cost and requires R and D

Sponsorship - well aren't we all a bit sick of every "media personality" saying how good a product is and then next week when sponsorship cahnges the new product is the best.

toecutter
18-09-2009, 11:31 AM
Don't get your knickers in a twist Braddles. Mr Boats is a salesman and if he's been to sales school he would have been taught that no objections = no sale. As a salesman he has a platform here to address objections raised and to promote the benefits of his products over the competition. If he does a good enough job some of these so called "nay sayers" may actually consider his product next time they are in the market.

PinHead
18-09-2009, 12:19 PM
can anyone else remember the original Toyota Crowns? Absolute heaps of junk...blew oil everywhere and a constant smoke screen out the back. At that time they had very few dealers, bugger all spare parts and junk cars...or how about the original Honda Z? another piece of junk.
They obviously listened and refined their products as they went along and now look at the machines they produce.
Some of the larger players are just that..large and uncompromising.
If someone gives them a go then you never know what might happen.

Just because a product is made in China does not mean it is of poor quality..some good products out of there and Sth E Asian countries.

toecutter
18-09-2009, 01:10 PM
Oh yeah, them and them smokey Mazdas too. And that doesn't include the rotary engined jobbies

toecutter
18-09-2009, 01:14 PM
....and who could forget the rustbucket Datsun 200B's....

ps how many damned posts do I have to make before I loss my newbie status???

Noelm
18-09-2009, 01:20 PM
I'll take a pair of 115's to trial for a couple of years!

ozscott
18-09-2009, 02:14 PM
This is all very interesting. Even 10 years ago I would not have bought a Japanese sedan over a good European Car...now its the opposite frankly and I just bought a new Accord Euro because it was better than a BMW 3 in many areas (and costs a little, not a lot, less).

10 years ago Hyundai was still pretty crap and now they are producing some very nice cars, in particular the i30 which is a real contender. The reliability of the korean stuff is approaching the jap stuff, and the jap stuff is top of the heap for reliability.

So...where to know. China, and Vietnam and Taiwong have some amazing factories coming on line. IF, and its a big IF, the Parsun factory is tooled up with the same quality control and the same high grade and well poured materials for its castings and components then I dont see why it wont be as good or near as damn it to Yamaha - BUT I would not be the duck being the test bed for them. If they stick around and prove themselves, alongwith the dealers, then I would obviously look at them down the track, but in the meantime for me, and given where these things break down (in the bloody drink) I am not risking it. There will be a market - generally people who dont know, dont care or simply cannot afford the extra to the Jap/US motors - they will test them and we will all benefit because it will show us one way or the other. I hope for their sake though that they are sweet because 4000 for an engine versus 6000 for an engine is not a cheap engine if it fails after only a few years...and then they are he poor buggers who can least afford to get a new one.

Cheers

Scott nthQld
18-09-2009, 02:52 PM
Just another example for those who bag the 'cheap chinese made crap', I'm betting there is a lot of people on here that own at least one high def plasma of LCD, or even LED backlit tellies. No matter what brand, including LG, Samsung, Sony, every big name we trust and buy because we see 'quality, when we think of them is made in either, China, Mexico, India, Indonesia, many countries with developing economies, that also provide very cheap labour. Samsung and LG, 2 of the biggest players in this game are Korean Owned, and both outsource manufacturing to get very cheap labour, but it still didn't stop you from spending god knows what on your flash new telly, home cinema system, fridge, freezer, washer whatever you have, Same goes for Sony (but is Japanese owned).

I'm not trying to persuade people to buy parsun, or not to buy parsun, but if you insist on bagging anything that is made in China becasue its cheap and nasty, take a look around your house, you'll probably find that 90% of your home appliances are chinese made, and you had no issues with buying those,AND the only regulation on these items is that the power cord must be double insulated, some peice of mind there.

mr_boats
18-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Ok I'm going to do my best to reply to most of the major points I've seen asked on here.
A few people have referred to me as a salesman. This is kind of a catch 22. Here's a bit about myself and my experience. I've never been a full time salesman in the marine industry. I’m a fully qualified marine mechanic (Or if I wanted to be fancy "Marine Technician") I did my time at Andrew Short marine. I even worked there while I was at school. Not a great guy to work for but he taught me heaps which I thank him for.
So I look at myself as a marine mechanic first I know outboards back the front. It's this which gives me the advantage when looking at new outboards and helping Parsun when it comes to designing and fixing problems. As for selling I'll never sell a motor to somebody if it’s not needed. Try coming into my shop and see how I sell. I ask what you going to use it for. Suggest the right engine if we have it. Show the features and walk away. I hate being pressured into buying things myself and I don't do it to other people.
As for warranty and spare parts. BM calls me (Among other things) a importer. Legally I'm classed as a manufacture. Although I don't manufacture the outboards what this means is if something goes wrong with the motor your not going to be able to go after Parsun, Its just not going to happen. I'm the company you have to see and with this title I has several responsibilities I'm bound to by law. First is holding a percentage of spare parts. Which I do. Although BM believes this is not true which he can't back up in any way or form.
If I do come across a part I don't have in stock which has happened all I need to do is email the factory and get it sent out airfreight which takes no more than 2 days. I get parts from china faster than I get some parts within Australia.
Also I have to warrant the motors.
Now WARRANTY remember I've worked in several dealerships in Sydney and I've witnessed alot of warranty claims. Being a mechanic straight away you can tell if its a genuine warranty claim or not. I've seen dealers go to outboard companies and they get rejected or the outboard company tries to ignore it as if it'll go away. Let me tell you "THE LONGER A WARRANTY PROBLEM GOES ON FOR THE MESSIER IT GETS" The way I look at it and handle the Parsun warranty claims is: If its a genuine claim FIX IT ASAP. No warranty claim has gone for longer than a week with us. And I ask anyone out there if they have had a problem and it hasn't been fixed please contact me ASAP I'll make sure it does. I know at our shop we have even fixed issues that weren't warranty claims without charging. The main one that just keeps coming up is dirty fuel We can't monitor the fuel you use but hey if it has a problem we remove the carby to find dirty fuel the jobs half done. While its off clean it, refit it test it and out the door. This may cost me a total of $35 in labour with my staff. I'm not going to bother charging the customer I just have to explain that it was fuel and make sure you clean your tank and line spotless or you'll be in here again and then I'll have to charge you. Keep the customer happy its the number 1 rule. Unless they are having a go.
Ok now there was a mention of this famous urban myth. "ARE THESE OLD MOLDS FROM YAMAHA" I don't know who come up with this one but it just keeps popping up. To make it clear "No they are not". Parsun builds everything. These are not old yammy molds because the parts would not be interchangeable with the latest yamaha parts as the parsuns are. Also why would yamaha sell the old molds? Do you think they are in need of the extra dollars? Maybe the Chinese are waiting outside the yamaha factory and going through the otto bins to find the old molds... He He... It doesn't make sense. Parsun has 30+years or experience in R & D in all types of motors being fuel, diesel and electric.
Somebody mentioned sponsorships or promo's. Sarine marine gave away a boat and parsun outboard in a fishing comp up there way. Also West Ribs gave away a inflatable and parsun outboard in last years WA boatshow as a door prize. As for sponsoring coontakinta will you get me on TV if I sponsor you??? If so I'll do it. He He... Seriously when it comes to this I'll definitely be doing sponsorships when the Big Boy motors come out. These motors are going to demand attention and I'll be putting them out there.
Anyway i'm out of here for today.
Have a good weekend everyone, even you BM.
Garry

ozscott
18-09-2009, 05:07 PM
Garry - well done matey on posting. I think your participaton on the forum deserves credit. You are making a good case for your product, given the lack of long term runs - well done.

Cheers

ozscott
18-09-2009, 05:08 PM
when are the big motors coming out - do you have any feel for whether they will be high tech/low tech 2 stroke, 4 stroke, and price?

mr_boats
18-09-2009, 06:58 PM
Hey Ozscott
2-strokes are a dying horse. It's only going to be 2-5 years before you won't be able to purchase a new one in australia. Parsun is not going to DESIGN anymore new 2-strokes. The larger ones are going to be 4-Strokes and they are a while away. I mean a long time away. 1 thing they don't do is rush designing and getting new models out. They make sure they are right before even giving them to me to test out. Final test of a motor is 500hrs(20days) of running at full throttle. Thats alot of hours. Then if they bring out a long shaft in the same HP that motor has to pass the 500hrs test. Then if they make that HP into a electric start, they test again. Everything takes time. If the Large HP's were out within a 1 year from now I'd be surprised.
By the way my mechanic just bought a seafearer Vagabond 2 weeks ago. Sturdy boat.

gazza2006au
03-10-2009, 02:19 AM
Hey Ozscott
2-strokes are a dying horse. It's only going to be 2-5 years before you won't be able to purchase a new one in australia. Parsun is not going to DESIGN anymore new 2-strokes. The larger ones are going to be 4-Strokes and they are a while away. I mean a long time away. 1 thing they don't do is rush designing and getting new models out. They make sure they are right before even giving them to me to test out. Final test of a motor is 500hrs(20days) of running at full throttle. Thats alot of hours. Then if they bring out a long shaft in the same HP that motor has to pass the 500hrs test. Then if they make that HP into a electric start, they test again. Everything takes time. If the Large HP's were out within a 1 year from now I'd be surprised.
By the way my mechanic just bought a seafearer Vagabond 2 weeks ago. Sturdy boat. 500 hours devided by 20 days is 25 hours per day im glad someone is getting 25 hours out of each day!

anyways i found this a 15hp parsun running in freezing cold water wow look at that you can even see the ice!!!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H04g65JZwuc

Chimo
03-10-2009, 06:54 AM
Another one for the Vag appreciation club?

Do parsons have an overheat issue so you have to run them in ice?::) :P

Cheers
Chimo

billfisher
03-10-2009, 07:14 AM
Speaking of 80's model Johnsons I was reading a book about special forces. The SAS was conducting an operation in the Falklands war using small boats powered by 'notoriously unreliable' Johnson 40hp outboards. Two of them broke down with one boat being towed and the other drifting out to sea and being picked up by the Royal Navy a considerable time later!

stevej
03-10-2009, 02:33 PM
falkans war was 1982

what outboard was reliable back then?, the johnos were prob the best of the bunch look at hwow many are still running where you see basically nothing from the other brands still alive at this age

cormorant
03-10-2009, 08:14 PM
Out of the brands avaliable the johno built a special couple of versions that ran on high spec fuels and also had some other features , some were extra quiet, , full handle around them so they coulsd be bacpacked or thrown in a truck, full prop guards , had reverse full thrust kits, some were designed to be dropped in the water with fully sealed cowls etc etc. They wern't that complicated but were used in crap conditions on boats with low transoms a lot and electronics being potted have come a long way. I actually owned 3 ex navy 40hp and they had extra "features" but also had the upgrades done with later potted electrics and so on and although only used lightly by us were still good runners for several years. Nice to know a bloke in navy stores back then to have them labled as non runners!!!!!


Strange of all the brands and a unlimited budget and known to buy the best they teamed up with OMC to develop them under US Govt grants. Used by RAN , german , dutch you name it.

Oils back then had a lot to do with motor problems on any 2 stroke, dirty plug and flooded and you go nowhere, add a bit of water up the airbox and exhaust and not nuch going on.

Parson must be better than ETECS as , Verados etc as no one has come on here and commented they have seen loads broken down and a mate of a mate broke his etc etc .

Most outboards die of neglect - full stop. A old style carby 2 stroke these days with better tollerences, bearings, design , propped right, oils and cooling alarms should last as long as parts are avaliable or corrosion takes them out. To think of the hours I have seen on 6-15hp 2 strokes over 10 years old in fresh water and seen them pulled down with minimal wear - not just a fluke - right petrol - right oil

Chamelion
03-09-2012, 01:00 AM
Hi Coontakinta

No you haven't read it wrong. The point is the consumer is able to buy parts through a delearship or online. Its gives the customer 2 options to choose from. There are some customers in rural areas that don't have a mechanic within hours of thier place this gives them the option to get the parts delievered. I've come across this situation in other parts of my business. I sell alot of marine electronics online throughout australia and I keep seeing to same towns and suburbs popping up in our delievery dockets. Mainly mining towns, there must be nothing out there. Buying online is essential to these people. Your Also asking "Why would customers be bothered buying off a dealer if they can do it online?". Once again it's purely up to the customer to purchase where he wants to buy from. If your not sure your getting the correct part or you need some advice then heading to a dealership would be the better option.
When you say there is no comparision between companies manufacturing in china I totally agree with you. Most people compare the parsun outboards to those cheap junkie motor bikes coming out of china. Parsun's quality is much better then those bikes Quality is what makes a good product Parsun is constantley asking me to send them reports on any issues I may have come across and any imporovments they could make on the brand. They are very dedicated to Quality. As thier own catch phrase is "Quality is power" Keep in mind Parsun is not a new company they have been desiging and manufactoring for over 30 years and there parent company is the worlds 3rd largest generator company. They started producing outboards due to thier clients in the UK asking them to give outboards ago.
As for time will tell all we have to do is wait and forums like this will provide the best feedback and thats why I spend the time on here as just anther way I can monitor the brand. The engines have now been in Australia for just under 2 years. I've still got the first 15hp which I've had here for 4 years. I've giving this thing the hardest time http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t317/islandinflatables/RIBflying.jpg
And it's still going strong. I've driven this motor to break it. I've done every thing I can apart from running it into some rocks and its still going strong.
So time is now getting on, as I said it's been 2 years I think the 5 year mark will be able to answer all those questions.
In reference the dealerships throughout australia. We are accumulating more and more dealerships. Inbetween Jan and June we didn't attempt to do any dealership drives as the marine industry was hit very hard. Most marine shops were just trying to stay afloat let alone taking on a new brand to promote. The last couple of months we have had alot of interest and talking with several marine stores about taking on the parsun and Island brands. You'll see on our website's front page when we open a new dealership.
When it comes to pricing yes of course it's going to go up. A new brand can't come in at the same price as a known brand. They won't survive. In 2 years there has already been 1 price rise but also know its the Australian dollar value that controls the end price for us.
If anyone has any questions I'd be more than happy to answer them.
Thanks
Garry

It's the 5 year mark (yeah, I've been patiently waiting).. How is the old 15hp going?

Anyone bitten the bullet and gone Parsun? Would love to hear some feedback.

tricksgonefishing
23-09-2012, 08:40 PM
This thread was a good read! I would like to here how the Parsun is going too. Ive seen quite a few getting around in the pacific (yacht tenders) and if mr boats is still around will the transome clamps on the 15hp interchange with the yam 15?