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Mindi
13-02-2009, 10:29 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25047657-2702,00.html

Does anyone know what sort of boats were involved..? at 6.5M you wouldnt normally expect this sort of outcome..? I figure they were made to roder rathen than a stock boat..? Its not a good story about the management of the event but a decent 6.5M boat wouldnt get into this position...?

Chimo
13-02-2009, 11:37 AM
Mindi

Was a Cairns boat built by ........... of Subsee ........ as per the attached link.

Apparently the builder was not told the boat was to be used in open seas etc ??? persoanlly dont see that as an excuse for a 6.5 m boat tho.

http://www.cairns.com.au/article/2009/02/13/28441_local-news.html

Cheers
Chimo

Mindi
13-02-2009, 11:44 AM
looks very open up front doesnt it... not a lot of obvious protection from shipping water, but who knows...maybe they are self draining..? . Interesting to see the proceedings unfold.

Chimo
13-02-2009, 12:16 PM
No action against boat builder but big smacks for the officers on site for a range of actions and lack of actions on their parts.

Cheers
Chimo

Chimo
13-02-2009, 04:30 PM
Rescuers failed five who died







Padraic Murphy | February 13, 2009

Article from: The Australian (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/)
THE sinking of the Immigration Department vessel the Malu Sara, with the loss of all five people on board, was a foreseeable and totally avoidable disaster that resulted from official indolence and incompetence, a Queensland coroner has ruled.
Immigration officers Wilfred Baira, 38, and Ted Cyril Harry, 54, and passengers Valerie Saub, 34, Flora Enosa, 34, and her daughter Ethena Enosa, 5, died on October 15, 2005, when their poorly equipped and shoddily built government boat, the Malu Sara, sank en route between Saibai and Badu islands in the Torres Strait.
"When no help came and the engines failed and water leaked into the supposedly watertight bilge faster than it could be pumped out, it is likely the boat capsized and soon sank," state Coroner Michael Barnes said yesterday. "The wretched dread of a mother seeking to cling
to her terrified child as they
were dumped into the dark and wild sea is too terrible to contemplate."
The ship's captain, Baira, began making distress calls more than 12 hours before when the vessel became lost in fog in the early evening.
In a scathing judgment delivered to a packed courthouse on Thursday Island, Mr Barnes said those aboard had been "mocked" by police and rescue officers, even as their shabbily built boat was taking water.
"The people lost when the Malu Sara sunk didn't die because some unforeseeable, freak accident swept them away before anything could be done to save them. Rather, they died because several people dismally failed to do their duty over many months," Mr Barnes found.
"When the incident was reported to police and the national search and rescue authority, the danger to the people on the Malu Sara was continually trivialised, and reports of their worsening predicament were disbelieved, ignored and even mocked."
Mr Barnes was especially critical of the Department of Immigration and Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs regional manager Garry Chaston, who was in charge of procuring the Malu Sara and left the rescue operation to a junior officer.
Mr Barnes said Mr Chaston "wilfully, recklessly or negligently" did not tell the builder the vessels would operate in open waters, failed to test the vessels for seaworthiness, failed to fit safety equipment, failed to train crew and wilfully provided regulators with false information about the vessels' use.
Mr Barnes said Mr Chaston also allowed the Malu Sara to go on its ill-fated voyage in heavy weather despite knowing the vessel had been taking on water. Mr Barnes said Mr Chaston was "incompetent and indolent" and recommended DIMIA take disciplinary action.
Mr Barnes said Sergeant Warren Flegg, who was in charge of the rescue effort when the vessel sank, should also face disciplinary action for failing to respond as the "incident escalated throughout Friday evening and Saturday morning" and for failing "to pass on to AusSAR information he well knew was crucial to its assessment of and response to the incident".
Mr Barnes also recommended a sweeping review of government procurement procedures, a review of the boatbuilder accreditation regime and safety checks, and the appropriate training of immigration officers.
Family members have urged Mr Barnes to encourage the Department of Public Prosecutions to lay charges.
Queensland police announced late yesterday that the matter relating to Sergeant Flegg would be forwarded to the Ethical Standards Command.
"There were so many mistakes made that should not have been made. My daughter died because nobody cared about the boats, nobody cared how they were used, nobody cared when they got lost," said John Saub, 52, the father of Valerie Saub, who now cares for his daughter's four children.

Far side
14-02-2009, 05:32 AM
Sometimes you have to wonder about the accuracy of these reports

Any works we have done for the government usually has a 40 page specification attached and all of the other crap they put in. The report reads like someone walked into the boat builder and said make me 5 of these. I am sure there is a paper trail on the boat build.
We are not getting all of the facts with this.
No one has mentioned maintenance or care for these vessles and we all know what a big factor that is on reliability
It sure is a sad event but the outcome dosent seem right.
Isn't the skipper responsible for the lives of the passengers ??

Lovey80
14-02-2009, 07:07 AM
Lets hope all at least get the sack if not have court proceedings started against them.

Cheers

Chris

ozbee
14-02-2009, 09:19 AM
states in heavy weather yet 12 hrs later lost in fog in nq yeah right its standing room only at boat ramps in that weather. know ballast leak i would say. theres more to this story than whats given. how many radio calls ??? < gps etc

disorderly
14-02-2009, 01:23 PM
theres more to this story than whats given. how many radio calls ??? < gps etc

Apparently the malu sara and her 5 sister ships were not comissioned with Radios,GPS,Sonar,Bilge pumps and had no flotation at all installed..oh and they leaked...::)

And apparently the rescue services dont take EPIRB activation very seriously in the Torres straights...to the point where they are referred to as "Empty Petrol I Require Boat"...:o

The whole story is a woeful tale of government mismanagement and lackadaisical attitudes from high ranking public service officials (one in particular)and police who are also supposed to act as rescue coordinators(but didnt)..:(



Scott

Mindi
14-02-2009, 02:23 PM
And it would appear also the builder for delivering the boats without flotation...what was it a "delete option"..? maybe the judgement of the skipper was inadequate, maybe not...but if EPIRBs are not taken seriously in the region then that's an administration failure.

disorderly
14-02-2009, 08:57 PM
And it would appear also the builder for delivering the boats without flotation...what was it a "delete option"..?

Mindi, I vaguely remember something about the builder stating that it would have cost an extra grand per boat for flotation..but this did not happen...$360 000 for 6 boats and another $6000 was apparently out of the question to ensure they were safe and would not sink....hmmm...if I still lived in NSW I would have speculated that there was some mischief(read...collusion..:-X) between the boatbuilder and the immigration official that was in charge of the deal..::)...guess we will never really know but it sure does stink...:(

Scott

hungry6
14-02-2009, 09:39 PM
It wouldn't supprise me if the floatation was deleted as a measure of budgeting. If you look around alot of feds fleet cars lacks things like abs, airbags and so on, where as these features would be a standard line up for civilian models.

Getout
16-02-2009, 07:41 AM
Who in their right mind would set off in an open tinny on a 100km trip in the first place???

Mindi
16-02-2009, 08:05 AM
Who in their right mind would set off in an open tinny on a 100km trip in the first place???

Only someone with a dangerously careless attitude to the sea and an apparent lack of the required level of training... of course the skipper has to be held responsible for starting out...but it hardly suggests much local leadership in setting up a culture of safety ..?
And who would buy an open tinny for inter island travel in the Torres Strait..?...someone who didnt have to do it themselves I guess...!

FNQCairns
16-02-2009, 08:57 AM
The boat was physically well capable of it of it's duty. In the end it will come down to a multi departmental whitewash, the DPP/police/police union are now hand in hand working very hard to twist and discount any law in every corrupt sense possible, manslaughter charges are easy, let society judge our emperors men:) .....on the evidence, it's not expensive....wishfull thinking i suspect, immunity under law will be the typical outcome.

Hundreds of Quintrex open boats do 100+km open water runs up here every week safely.

On that boat from memory anyway, a system failed, due to a poor $12 per hour fitout. The money was thrown at them for a who gives a crap just make it happen political outcome from the then federal member.

It took water as is not unusual for those conditions but couldn't get it back out, then it was too late, a non departmental coast guard wouldn't have left them to drown.

Please please please if ever i find myself in a court of law can i please please please be judged no deeper than on ethical grounds, what a hoot a life could be free of all responsibility to society.

cheers fnq

Jackinthebox
16-02-2009, 09:28 AM
The boat was physically well capable of it of it's duty. In the end it will come down to a multi departmental whitewash, the DPP/police/police union are now hand in hand working very hard to twist and discount any law in every corrupt sense possible, manslaughter charges are easy, let society judge our emperors men:) .....on the evidence, it's not expensive....wishfull thinking i suspect, immunity under law will be the typical outcome.

Hundreds of Quintrex open boats do 100+km open water runs up here every week safely.

On that boat from memory anyway, a system failed, due to a poor $12 per hour fitout. The money was thrown at them for a who gives a crap just make it happen political outcome from the then federal member.

It took water as is not unusual for those conditions but couldn't get it back out, then it was too late, a non departmental coast guard wouldn't have left them to drown.

Please please please if ever i find myself in a court of law can i please please please be judged no deeper than on ethical grounds, what a hoot a life could be free of all responsibility to society.

cheers fnq

Yeah ...... what he said!>:(

seatime
16-02-2009, 09:30 AM
The ATSB Investigation Report gives an accurate account of the chain of events that resulted in this tragedy. The investigation was conducted by professional mariners.
Incompetence and negligence was displayed by the various gov't depts and builder. The lack of properly trained personnel in key positions caused all the ducks to line up, so to speak.

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2005/MAIR/mair222.aspx

yowie3
23-02-2009, 01:15 PM
If you wish to read the entire story and not draw your own conclusion to heresay then follow this link http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/1680.htm The link is the coroners courts 103 page findings. This document goes into great detail about the event. Unfortunatley i think we are forgetting that 5 people lost there lives including a 5 year old girl. Let the corners findings about the matter assist to prevent this from occuring again, as they are designed to do.

This incident is an unfortunate event with alot of contributing factors, that hopefully will not be repeated in the future as a result of this inquest.

Cheers

Mindi
23-02-2009, 02:27 PM
The boat was physically well capable of it of it's duty. In the end it will come down to a multi departmental whitewash,

cheers fnq

I really dont think so...the ATSB and the Coroner describe the boats as

" • The IRVs were constructed with negative freeboard: that is, when fully laden water entered the cockpit area through the freeing port in the engine pod and then the scuppers. The vessel simply sat too low in the water.
Testing one of the sister ships resulted in the ATSB report stating: “When stopped ... or at low speed with the vessel fully loaded, the motor-well freeing port was below the waterline regardless of whether or not there was any water inside the void space. This means that water will actually back flood through the freeing port to the extent that the motor-well fills with ... water. Water then flows into the cockpit via the two scuppers”.68
Based on his observations of the prototype, and it appears, a favourable interpretation of the ATSB report, Mr Radke said in evidence he did not believe that the Malu Sara had negative freeboard. I reject Mr Radke’s assertions in that regard and prefer the ATSB findings.
• The ATSB carried out swamp and stability testing by flooding the cockpit of a vessel. That resulted in the vessel capsizing after 11 minutes of test time. It remained afloat at least temporarily, but then inverted.70 Given the attempts to locate the Malu Sara after it went missing, it seems likely that the Malu Sara sank no more than 3 to 4 hours after it was swamped. The failure of the tested IRV to remain stable demonstrated failure to comply with both USL Code requirements and AS1799. I am satisfied the entire fleet exhibited these characteristics.
• The ATSB stated that the intention of the USL Code and AS1799 stability requirements was to “safeguard the vessel’s occupants by ensuring that as a last resort the vessel will act as a ‘lifeboat’”. Thiswas a basic seaworthiness requirement. Mr Radke told the Court that he “ran out of time” to do swamp testing. However, in other evidence he indicated he had not planned to do a swamp test of the prototype.72 I find that he did not plan to do a swamp test and did not inform Mr Chaston that a swamp test had not been done, and Mr Chaston did not ask about it.
• The ATSB also carried out testing on the sister ships of the Malu Sara to ascertain if the weather deck was watertight. All except the prototype were found to leak.Water accumulated in the under-deck void space. It is likely there was a similar deficiency with the Malu Sara having regard to observations made while it was at Saibai Island. That deficiency would have led to the vessel capsizing and limited the time the Malu Sara would have floated after this occurred.
I reject Mr Radke’s suggestion in evidence that the compartment below deck was watertight.


There is more...but you get the idea. They were "unsafe at any speed"......I havent noticed anyone forgetting that 5 people died ..? but I am pretty short on optimism that the findings will stop it happening again.

It's a long read....but it is pretty well crystalised in the coroner's last sixwords...

"A totally avoidable disaster was complete"

FNQCairns
23-02-2009, 03:58 PM
I still do contend it was physically capable of it's duty (perhaps the word duty was incorrect) , it's just a beaut hull! I use the understanding that it is no less seaworthy than thousands of boats on the water every week, just like the quintrex example i used above.

Scuppers on small boats are never safe but marketed as a good thing and common now none the less, i have seen pics of those boats on the water, they do not sit that low (the outboard mounting height shows it) and would remain a safe 'recreational' boat to own and operate offshore as others do.

The fact they didn't come up to whatever higher collaborative standard expected for commercial/govt craft doesn't change that and the reason why? who within the departments will be held responsible in any way punitive for the result....I fully expect no one as usual, hence the reticent findings of the inquiry.

cheers fnq