Powerwinch 712 problems

[SWRFisher]

I'm running a Powerwinch 712 elec winch on a Dunbier trailer/4.8 glass centre console/60hp 4 stroke rig that I estimate around 650 kgs. The winch has seemed to always struggle particularly the last 2/3rds in. I have to continually tighten the round black clutch knob when in the winch up mode and sometimes have to hold it firmly on the last winching bit to the post. I really can't see how anyone could use the lanyard supplied and stand away from the winch without having to continually tighten the clutch .
Am I expecting too much from this Powerwinch as I don't sink the trailer and basically winch most of the way on?.
I've read other posts where guys us the 712 on 5m plus boats now worries.
Any ideas would be helpful . . .

[Chimo]

Hi SWRFisher

Looking at the parts description of the 712 it looks to be very similar to the 912 that I have had similar experiences with.

In the case of my 912 the thrust bearings several parts in from the clutch adjustment knob had become RS and needed to be replaced.

Also if you continue to use the winch while its in this condition eventually the clutch lining may become detached and the grip is severley reduced further.

You may need to pull the cover off and have a good look at the state of the parts in from the cltch adjustment knob.

If all is well and or you find you need to replace parts when this is done the corrrect way to engage the clutch as I was told by the repair / parts people is to switch the motor on and wind the tension on thru the clutch adjustment knob just past the point of slippage. If you adjust the tension before turning on the motor it is possible / probable to stuff the tiny little thrust bearings etc in the unit.

Given the size of the bits involved its a wonder they can do what they do; particularly when most of us dont use the correct proceedure until we bugger it up and then pull them apart to appreciate their inner sercrets!

Have a look at the insides of the 712 etc here and you can order the bits you need from this mob too.
http://www.samallen.com.au/winch.pdf

By the way I also drag my Vag on all the way; using a double wire and pulley; since having my electric over hydraulic breakaway brakes fixed on the 2 tonne plus trailer and given that I would rather have brakes esp on the occasions I tow thru Gold Coast traffic the trailer never gets dunked so the winch gets its work outs and thats it!;)

Cheers
Chimo

[Oscar]

SWRFisher

Check the basics first before stripping it - is the cable winding on over the top of the drum, if the + and - are wired up wrong it'll run in the wrong direction and the clutch will loosen off when winding. I have the same model and it pulls a 5 m with a 75 hp direct no problem.

Best of luck, lets know how you get on.

Oscar

[SWRFisher]

Thanks Chimo,
I have probably done the wrong thing as you have suggested re: tightened the clutch knob up then powered on to winch up hence possibly stuffing the thrust bearings. The clutch knob does get very hot and some 'smoke' has come from behind the spring under the cover. As this is my first elec winch on boat trailer and no instructions came with the winch/trailer from Dunbier I am going blind.
I was assured the winch size should handle my boat with ease as Powerwinch claim a 'vertical lift of 2400lb' on the 712 model.
Yeah, just can't bring myself to dunk the whole trailer even with override brakes so winching the boat on completely shouldn't be a problem I thought!

Thanks Oscar,
Yes the cable is winding on over the top and I have used the elec cable as supplied. My auto elec just shortened it and fitted the relay etc but I always have had to keep tightening the clutch knob up during the winch process.
Have you had to do this? Or just as Chimo suggests power on then tighten the clutch knob and not have to touch it again? Still don't know how anyone could use the lanyard that is attached to the power on switch?


Regards Graeme

[Oscar]

Graeme

There is something radically wrong with that winch, mechanical or electrical.

My procedure is: undo the clutch knob, run the cable out, tighten the knob, clip cable to boat, using the cord from the switch tied to the end of the trailer, pull the cord while centering the boat from the rear of the trailer. Up she comes.

I've never experienced smoke or heating near the clutch knob.

Taking the covers off the winch is a simple job:

Four philips head screws at the bottom, two bolts with dome nuts at the top, remove the 3/8" NF nut from the clutch shaft, and unscrew and remove the clutch knob, be carefull of the thrust washers behind the knob. Any problem should be obvious, usually everything needs greasing and oiling anyhow as part of maintenance (not the clutch plates). All this can be done while the winch is still on the trailer. If nothing is obvious, look for loose wire connections, and wire overheating, a loose wire could also cause smoke, they are heavy wires just held by a single screw, and do come loose.

Hope this of some help.

Oscar

[Chimo]

Hi Graeme

I used to do as you and Oscar do ie tighten then engage power. In fact it did it OK for years until the fatefull day the little thrust washers developed flat spots.

From then on you needed to tighten and then tighten some more and when saving brakes and hauling all the way things can get hot if there is any slippage.

I too had smoke and in fact it got so hot that I was able to screw the black knob so that it slid around on its metal centre. One more part to replace!

The guys in the workshop who do powerwinch repairs are the ones who told me to engage power and tighten up while the shafts are moving so you only apply enough tension plus a tad and avoid stuffing the thrust washers.

As Oscar says its a breeze to pull the cover off and after the lock nuts are off and the clutch knob wound off when you take the washers etc off (remember the order) you will see the size of the components that are hauling a couple of tonne of boat out of the water. Gives one a real appreciation of the old addage regarding "its not the size but how one uses it"!

I also let the boat pull the double cable out so the hook is at the end of the trailer ready to haul back in. I installed a hook under the winch on the winch post that I pass the paynter over after I first pull the bow onto the last roller. The boat can be held in place while walking back to engage the hook to the bow eye by letting the paynter slip through ones hands as you move to the bow. With the bow hook engaged you simply move back to the winch pulling the paynter all the while so the bow stays in position on the roller ready for you to start the winch.

All I do is either tie off the paynter or stand on it so I have two hands free to 1 switch on the powerwinch motor and 2 wind the clutch knob to engage the cable winch.

If you keep plenty of lanoc / fish oil etc on the cable it wont rust (mine hasnt and its about 10 yrs old ) and on the 912 the metal tension plate helps to keep the cable firm till you get som tension on it. Once things are winding up OK I hold the power switch with one hand (Left)and use the right gloved (anti -oil) hand to guide the cable so it feeds evenly onto the drum.

The winch post hook that allows control of the boat with the paynter is IMHO what makes the operation easy, safe amd hassel free. The powerwinch just stops one sweating like a pig especially in weather like this with 80% humidity.

Let us know what you find when you pull the cover off and have a look.


Cheers
Chimo

[SWRFisher]

Thanks Oscar,
Took the side plates off and clutch knob and looked inside. Did note a loose thru bolt on the actual motor assembly that I tightened okay. Couldn't detect any wear or 'burnout' on the bearing washers etc so guess something more internal wrong.

Chimo,
As the winch is only 6 months I think I'll see if I can get a warranty claim or at least get the suppliers to look at it and give me an oppinion. You mentioned 'the guys in the workshop who did your repairs' . . . would you happen to have their contact details or company name . . . I guess they are the distributor of Powerwinch so should be able to help me out with enquiries.

Thanks guys for your help

regards Graeme. . .

[Chimo]

Hi Graeme

As I said in post 2 "I was told by the repair / parts people" and they were at sam allen (link in post 2) . My winch was probably 8yrs old when I had my hassels and I did the repair myself with parts bought from s a . I didn't actually go there or physically see / touch them.

For warranty I guess you might be better to go thru the retailer you purchased the winch from, with all your paperwork one assumes.

Still might pay to ring s a and discuss the issue with them first up IMHO. PM if you want other info.

Cheers
Chimo
H A D for today!

[Oscar]

Graeme

As Chimo has said it's a warranty claim - I bought mine in 2002 and it's been faultess - I also had another on my previous boat. They are reliable pieces of equipment - get to the supplier and have it fixed or replaced, I can't imagined what would be wrong in six months use. It should be prefect, was it new.
Being retired mine has been used every couple of weeks or more since purchase.

Oscar

[Oscar]

Graeme

If you like, PM your email address and I'll send the Operator Manual and Parts List for the PowerWinch. The pdf files are too large to send on the forum.

Oscar

[Chimo]

Graeme and Oscar

the pics and parts list are on here . and you can blow them up to see details.
http://www.samallen.com.au/winch.pdf

Cheers
Chimo

[Heath]

My 712 did the exact same thing. Replaced the thrust bearing & all good.
Simple, easy job. Got the bearing from Mini Bearings for about 7 bucks & new spring washers as well.
I pull my 6m cruisecraft up with no probs

[Chimo]

Hi Heath

Where are Mini Bearings just in case I ever need another thrust bearing; not that I ever will but...........

Chimo