Ethanol problem...?

[Mindi]

This post on ETEC owners forum is interesting. It MAY be an ETEC problem but on careful reading it looks much more like a problem with substandard fuel line installed at the motor end which has deteriorated with exposure to Ethanol...and the gunk has gone into the motor end including the factory fitted internal fuel line (as it would) ... it seems to have happened beyond the bulb. Sounds like the line beyond the bulb was non ethanol tolerant.
ETEC paranoids will find some entertainment in this...but my question is how do we protect against undeclared Ethanol in fuel...? I guees we cant, and the only solution is to have from the filler to the injectors all ethanol tolerant and just not trust the fuel labelling.

http://forums.etecownersgroup.com/tool/post/barnaclebill/vpost?id=3248255

[Steboe]

Its easy to test for ethanol, but you might want to do this at home before you you fill up the boat, ethanol will separate from petrol if you add water.

[abbykait]

I dont have an etec, but I always use premium fuel like BP ultimate. I picked up a brochure a while ago from BP that said Ethanol was not suitable for use in any boat as ethanol absorbs water.

[Sniper]

Don't use ethanol in any 2 or 4 stroke lawn mower, wiper sniper, generator, or any stationary motor and definately not any outboard, 2 or 4 stroke.

In quite a few states in America, Ethanol fuel blends are all that is available, and they are having problems with outboards over there, as well as other motors.
The amount of vehicles that can effectively run on Ethanol blended fuels is very low. For an engine to run efficiently and effectively, modiications need to be done to both the combustion area and the ignition system. Not cost effective.

Also, the fuel economy with Ethanol blended fuels is far lower than conventional fuels, so the saving of 2 or 3 cents a litre soon goes out the exhaust very quickly.
But the main reason why I wouldn't use it in a boat, even if it was ok to, is that it absorbs moisture. Hmm, don't boats opperate in areas of moisture???

As for Premium fuel, its only recommended to use it if your motor is designed to use it. I used to use it in my last motor, a 4 stroke merc and had problems with burning out the spacing plate between the power head and the leg. This is because it was burning too hot, which the composite metals weren't designed to handle, well so I've been told. With my current 4 stroke merc, running standard unleaded, I have had no problems what so ever in the 400 hours that it has on it.

Also, Evinrude Etecs aren't designed to run on Premium as well. Not many motors are from what I have been told.

Now if I'm incorrect on any of the above, please don't howl me down. The above is only what I have been told by reliable sources which I trust. And the old saying is, "if in doubt, do without!!"

Cheers
Bill

[Mindi]

Don't use ethanol in any 2 or 4 stroke lawn mower, wiper sniper, generator, or any stationary motor and definately not any outboard, 2 or 4 stroke.

In quite a few states in America, Ethanol fuel blends are all that is available, and they are having problems with outboards over there, as well as other motors.
The amount of vehicles that can effectively run on Ethanol blended fuels is very low. For an engine to run efficiently and effectively, modiications need to be done to both the combustion area and the ignition system. Not cost effective.

Also, the fuel economy with Ethanol blended fuels is far lower than conventional fuels, so the saving of 2 or 3 cents a litre soon goes out the exhaust very quickly.
But the main reason why I wouldn't use it in a boat, even if it was ok to, is that it absorbs moisture. Hmm, don't boats opperate in areas of moisture???

As for Premium fuel, its only recommended to use it if your motor is designed to use it. I used to use it in my last motor, a 4 stroke merc and had problems with burning out the spacing plate between the power head and the leg. This is because it was burning too hot, which the composite metals weren't designed to handle, well so I've been told. With my current 4 stroke merc, running standard unleaded, I have had no problems what so ever in the 400 hours that it has on it.

Also, Evinrude Etecs aren't designed to run on Premium as well. Not many motors are from what I have been told.

Now if I'm incorrect on any of the above, please don't howl me down. The above is only what I have been told by reliable sources which I trust. And the old saying is, "if in doubt, do without!!"

Cheers
Bill

Well like you I am only relying on what I have read..but my understanding is a little different to yours.
I think that the motors have no issue with the 10% alcohol component in the combustion process of E10...the problem is that some synthetic fuel system components like hoses, O rings, etec will react chemically to E10 and shed mucuous rubbery gunk which promptly plays havoc with injectors or carbies or filters ....everything downstream of the dissolving component. This would explain the ETEC event if the non alcohol resistant piece of hose was from the bulb to the front of the engine.....?

As for water and absorption... I have been occasionally adding half a bottle of metho to my outboard tanks for 30 plus years to dissolve any condensed water and "absorb" it into the fuel so the motor doesn't see it in small quantities and it just gets blown out in the combustion process in a 2 stroke anyway. So the characteristic of gasohols in absorbing small amounts of water has always been a positive in the past deliberately exploited to keep water from accumulating in the tank. So I dont think the hydroscopic qualities of gasohol is the problem, it's that synthetic fuel system components made of certain materials break down in it's presence and stuff everything else.
This hasnt been an issue with the metho adding practice either because the ethyly alcohol in E10 is sufficiently different to the methyl alcohol in Metho... or because it is more like 1% than 10% concentration by volume....dunno...but my fuel lines have never dissolved..?

Very interested in your Premium vs Regular comments ...thanks.

More than happy to be educated with data to the contrary...?

[black runner]

Only use standard unleaded, not premium. There was a good article in F&B with expert comment from BP Australia.

Contrary to popular belief the the octane rating of fuel increases as it gets older when the lighter aromatics evaporate off leaving a denser/richer air/fuel mix. So you actually get more of a fizzer of a burn. The word high octane conjures up images of high energy fuel but is a measure of its anti-detonation capability and is used in hi compression/performance engines to reduce likelihood of detonation.

Higher octane fuels have a more controlled and longer burn compared to standard unleaded which has a shorter duration and more intense burn. The standard unleaded will suffer storage for a longer period.

The Yamaha tech I spoke to the other day confirmed that they had seen early plug failure in 4strokes due to use of premium (and probably old fuel). Yamaha recommend only regular ulp be used and definitely no ethanol blend.

Cheers

[Outsider1]

If you are interested to read more, this is a link to the F & B article Black Runner referred to;

http://www.seamedia.com.au/_tmp/seamedia-YtAPDz.pdf

[Outsider1]

Gary Fooks, who is a Ausfish member, has also written a few articles about Ethanol fuel issues. There is a link on Nuggets website to one;

http://www.nuggetfishing.com.au/information.php?info_id=35&osCsid=sm547gp38n2lr7clb8favs83m6

[Steboe]

E10 will absorb a maximum of about 5ml of water per liter, any more and separation will occur.

Ken

[mik01]

I used any old premium unleaded (mostly from BP) in my mower. after 5yrs, the plastic fuel tank had cracked, a symptom I am told of the ethanol content in fuel - and no, I don't get the 'ethanol' blend.

my understanding is that BP unleaded, and Coles?, has minimum ethanol content blended in their fuels as standard, and are not required to advertise until it reaches a certain percentage. no - I am not talking about the 'e10' blend - talking about regular unleaded.

now happy to be corrected, but this is what I have heard and I do not get my boat fuel at those establishments any more. any of the others apparently is ok - I stick with caltecks or seven-11.

ps - my mower is 4 stroke