View Full Version : BARRA ... Run & Gun Vs Concentrated effort
OK IBDers & Wannabes;)
I'm just interested to hear your thoughts on your approach to barra fishing.
When fishing is known to be tough ...... Do you
Fish constantly on the move & cast to any likely looking location ( or spot to spot)!
or
Look for an ideal location ..... Tie off & thoroughly flog that area to foam ( at least a couple of hours).
or
TROLL !
Why ??? & How successful have you been with either approach........ Plus your tips.
:scholar: This may be a helpful topic for the Newby , travelers or when we do those short weekend trips
Cheers
Chris
jimbamb
12-01-2009, 07:16 AM
The other option is to attack the bundy bottle..
Works for me!!!!!
Big_Ren
12-01-2009, 10:44 AM
I think a combination of both would strike the right balance Chris.
Bit like playing Keno....do you keep the same numbers or do you chop and change until you strike gold?
The biggest impediment to success lies in our own mindset. It's a difficult thing to do to tell your brain you are not going to fish your favourite spots in your GPS library, because you caught fish there last month or last year.
What were the conditions like when you tasted sweet success at Spot X? If the conditions are different, the water quality, clarity and all of those other intangibles, why would you not look for better conditions elsewhere, or find those locations where those successful conditions are replicated.
I do think you need to spend some time in a chosen location to do it justice (at least 20-30 minutes). A variety of lure presentations, retrieve styles and speeds, and depths can all be processed and eliminated (or otherwise) during this time, before a move might be the better option.
Cheers
Paul
chewy01
12-01-2009, 10:52 AM
Chris,
little has been mentioned about the use of sounders. when the fishing gets tough,i rely in the most part on it. I try and find a few things that attract fish i.e.Bait,warm water in winter.Wind etc but if i cant see fish on the sounder i wont waste too much time.I guess this comes from chasing the salty barra,Whereby i normally dont throw a lure out to troll till i mark a barra on the sounder(if im planning to troll not cast)Similar in the dam. i find and mark fish,several on a bank if i can then fish it and fish it then fish it some more.I think i may as well be fishing where i know there are fish,and just try and work out how to get them to hit. Just the way i fish.
chewy.
Pete62
12-01-2009, 10:56 AM
Interesting Chris, what about the planning of trips, as a Newbie I was of the thought that any trips were planned around available time off, family commitments and for me at the moment my wifes buggered knee and the pending operation, or do we look at favorable weather patterns, moon phases and crowd factors, try and pick it then make a dash:-/.
Back to you, Pete.
anthony72
12-01-2009, 11:11 AM
Chris,
Lately I have been running around Awoonga like a mad man and trolling for mediocre results. Then I have just watched Johnny's new DVD then concerntrated on one point yesterday where there was two current lines hitting a point, landed 2 both at 80 cm first time boated two in a afternoon for a while. I am now a convert to working the one area with good current flow.
The only running I am doing is away from work to the dam
Chris,
little has been mentioned about the use of sounders. when the fishing gets tough,i rely in the most part on it. I try and find a few things that attract fish i.e.Bait,warm water in winter.Wind etc but if i cant see fish on the sounder i wont waste too much time.I guess this comes from chasing the salty barra,Whereby i normally dont throw a lure out to troll till i mark a barra on the sounder(if im planning to troll not cast)Similar in the dam. i find and mark fish,several on a bank if i can then fish it and fish it then fish it some more.I think i may as well be fishing where i know there are fish,and just try and work out how to get them to hit. Just the way i fish.
chewy.
Thanks Chew ....... I'll get some pointers off you once I start targetting wild fish up the Mary R etc
no doubt a sounder is an important tool ....... probably after our own eyes. Unfortunately we often cant sound an area that we need to fish ....... structure / weed beds bankside lantana ........ so we just have to combine all the other things to make a decision whether we spend time there or move on.
Chris
I think a combination of both would strike the right balance Chris.
Bit like playing Keno....do you keep the same numbers or do you chop and change until you strike gold?
The biggest impediment to success lies in our own mindset. It's a difficult thing to do to tell your brain you are not going to fish your favourite spots in your GPS library, because you caught fish there last month or last year.
What were the conditions like when you tasted sweet success at Spot X? If the conditions are different, the water quality, clarity and all of those other intangibles, why would you not look for better conditions elsewhere, or find those locations where those successful conditions are replicated.
I do think you need to spend some time in a chosen location to do it justice (at least 20-30 minutes). A variety of lure presentations, retrieve styles and speeds, and depths can all be processed and eliminated (or otherwise) during this time, before a move might be the better option.
Cheers
Paul
Hey Paul ........ We haven't even mentioned rises & falls in water levels or the growth of acquatic weed ......... Places that were prime productive areas last month - may be unfishable today
This stood out in Nov when we fished /pre fished the ABT ( places that were so productive in Sept ....... could not be fished or were not worth fishing 6 weeks later) ...... This was the first time I got to see a rapid change in lakeside dynamics....... rather than a change over 6 or 8 months
Chris
chewy01
12-01-2009, 12:01 PM
Ah but chris we can find the fish mid afternoon waiting on the creek bed edges for the sun to drop and move in to terrorise the bait ;)
LIke outside some of your favourite points :):)
Awoonga
12-01-2009, 04:19 PM
Chris,
Lately I have been running around Awoonga like a mad man and trolling for mediocre results. Then I have just watched Johnny's new DVD then concerntrated on one point yesterday where there was two current lines hitting a point, landed 2 both at 80 cm first time boated two in a afternoon for a while. I am now a convert to working the one area with good current flow.
The only running I am doing is away from work to the dam Well there you go..... top marks my son.....
rhycebullimore
12-01-2009, 04:36 PM
perfect example...last week water far too high to lure fish at the hinchinbrook area (3.5m) two passes at a trolling spot of mine for 5 mins and scored a a good hit and a wild caught meter plus 24lb barra...what else was i going to do knowing the water was too high to do anything else...waste fuel ? use you electric against massive run whilst flattening a battery or turn to the only option avaliable that i know constantly produces on those large tides. good fishos will know the correct answer.
Dick Pasfield
12-01-2009, 06:06 PM
OK IBDers & Wannabes;)
Oddly enough I'm neither ;) but if I was I might still do it the way I do it in the river
If I know where the fish are aggregated (not spawning as I'm talking about freshwater) I usually sit on them until they start to feed. As most of my fishing is done at night that'd mean an initial session of about an hour, then a kip for a couple of hours and another go for 30 minutes or so. One more in the wee small hour and another as first light appears to sunrise when it's time to go home. The reason for the kip is twofold, one is for the sake of sleep, the other is to get the lure out of the water for a while. Marvelous how often first or second cast after a lay off gets the fish.
If I'm not sure where fish are lurking I'll hit a spot for between 20 minutes and 30 minutes and if no response move. If I got a half hearted hit I'll try to get back to that spot an hour or two later to see if the fish are more interested. Sometimes I don't find fsh until the fith or sixth move.
Oddly enough I'm neither ;) but if I was I might still do it the way I do it in the river
If I know where the fish are aggregated (not spawning as I'm talking about freshwater) I usually sit on them until they start to feed. As most of my fishing is done at night that'd mean an initial session of about an hour, then a kip for a couple of hours and another go for 30 minutes or so. One more in the wee small hour and another as first light appears to sunrise when it's time to go home. The reason for the kip is twofold, one is for the sake of sleep, the other is to get the lure out of the water for a while. Marvelous how often first or second cast after a lay off gets the fish.
If I'm not sure where fish are lurking I'll hit a spot for between 20 minutes and 30 minutes and if no response move. If I got a half hearted hit I'll try to get back to that spot an hour or two later to see if the fish are more interested. Sometimes I don't find fsh until the fith or sixth move.
Dick ..... we all consider you an honorary IBDer ;D & your comments are always appreciated.
I'm sure most will agree about the lure out of the water .......... just how often does a change in lure / plastic entice a strike first or second cast ......... you may have cast to that area for an hour! I'm sure they watch the lures go past & think ... "yep - seen that before!"
Good stuff
Chris
The biggest impediment to success lies in our own mindset. It's a difficult thing to do to tell your brain you are not going to fish your favourite spots in your GPS library, because you caught fish there last month or last year.
Paul
true words Paul, in a tuff bite period, our worst enemy is not the water temp, wind, weather or anything else, its our mindset. A positive attitude will eventually bring positive results, least thats what I keep telling myself, wonder when its going to kick in?
Tropicaltrout
12-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Yeah as has been said, and we all know the many varibles and if we diddn't those who have seen the latest dvd will now now it..
The conferdence Factor...... I have seen conferdence drop along with catch rates even when at sea, the skipper just drops off and wammo the line is light, but he stays positive it tightens up... Why is this? maybe we too react with the moon and varibles?????
Yeah as has been said, and we all know the many varibles and if we diddn't those who have seen the latest dvd will now now it..
The conferdence Factor...... I have seen conferdence drop along with catch rates even when at sea, the skipper just drops off and wammo the line is light, but he stays positive it tightens up... Why is this? maybe we too react with the moon and varibles?????
Confidence ...... A positive mental attitude is so important .
Let me throw this at you - How often is the gun & run approach born from a lack of confidence ? I know not always ! .......But - It does require a PMA to sit at a location & lay a barrage of casts over a long period of time :)
Chris
Tropicaltrout
13-01-2009, 06:50 AM
Yeah but how is it that the odd run and gun goes up flicks mutiple casts and just so happens to nail a fish..... why?... he flukes it... hit the right spot and by nothing more than chance... he gets that one spot that has the right set up for success then... the conferdence is born.... In saying this, I am talking in general about the hundreds of fishos heading to the dams and the number of fish caught, which is pretty low if your asking most at the camps... most say "they had nothing today" when there is the select few which worked a area they either haddn't before or just was exploring and nailed a couple then all of a sudden they get this conferdence and usally more fish for the trip....
As for the fellas running up the dam for the hundredth time we have conferdence in the spots we have used before we select the areas we choose because of some of the more finer points and we as a whole have less donut sessions then the weekend warrior....
I have a question? You know how when we round a corner or fish a stretch of sticks and you get this huge gut feeling and cast into them and you get wacked why is that? you could go back to that spot a day later and not have it why?
Yeah but how is it that the odd run and gun goes up flicks mutiple casts and just so happens to nail a fish..... why?... he flukes it... hit the right spot and by nothing more than chance... he gets that one spot that has the right set up for success then... the conferdence is born.... In saying this, I am talking in general about the hundreds of fishos heading to the dams and the number of fish caught, which is pretty low if your asking most at the camps... most say "they had nothing today" when there is the select few which worked a area they either haddn't before or just was exploring and nailed a couple then all of a sudden they get this conferdence and usally more fish for the trip....
As for the fellas running up the dam for the hundredth time we have conferdence in the spots we have used before we select the areas we choose because of some of the more finer points and we as a whole have less donut sessions then the weekend warrior....
I have a question? You know how when we round a corner or fish a stretch of sticks and you get this huge gut feeling and cast into them and you get wacked why is that? you could go back to that spot a day later and not have it why?
Nath ...... Dont get me wrong I'm not saying that the gun & run approach is bad or wrong ........ no way get F'd F off! ;D ( sorry that song is going through my head);)
I guess the gut feeling on a spot ...... is born from experience & your data base thats locked in your mind (or what you see) ....... you know , Yeh it was like this last year & that spot fired .......... This is why a run around is a good thing & you fish conditions on the day .8-)
For me ...... I now have an appreciation for the Concentrated effort .... & the best results have come from that approach ......... It may have originated using the G&R but once a location appealed - then the concentrated effort bore results ( sometimes after a few minutes other times a couple of hours) - Transient Barra to me make a good target.
Me ..... i'm trying to understand it a little more - because my bream or bass fishing follows a G&R approach - always.
Chris
PSb
Here is something to observe in next weeks AFC (Awoonga round) I can just about bet my other one ....... That one or two crews will fish the old creek bed near Dingo Is for a good part of the event !
Big_Ren
13-01-2009, 09:13 AM
Here is something to observe in next weeks AFC (Awoonga round) I can just about bet my other one ....... That one or two crews will fish the old creek bed near Dingo Is for a good part of the event !
Probably right Chris.....I certainly know one team fished inside NZ Gully.......why do I know this?....because our houseboat was moored there and we were having a few cool treats watching them.
Awoonga
13-01-2009, 01:12 PM
Afc....:-x :-x :-x :-x :-x
Awoonga
13-01-2009, 01:19 PM
I have a question? You know how when we round a corner or fish a stretch of sticks and you get this huge gut feeling and cast into them and you get wacked why is that? You could go back to that spot a day later and not have it why?... The Monduran DVD has the answer....
Ok, dont take the piss, but that might have something to do with why, when I round a corner, some spots smell fishy!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pick yourself up off the floor and start pointing at the clown, but i reckon at times I smell a fishy spot, and have proven it to hold fish. Im not saying Im smelling barra, maybe the concentration of nutrients, and water turn over associated with a good fish holding area.
Next time your on the water, suck a few in as you travel along, some areas definately smell differant to others.
Ok, Ive put it out there, let the piss take begin.....
Ok, dont take the piss, but that might have something to do with why, when I round a corner, some spots smell fishy!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pick yourself up off the floor and start pointing at the clown, but i reckon at times I smell a fishy spot, and have proven it to hold fish. Im not saying Im smelling barra, maybe the concentration of nutrients, and water turn over associated with a good fish holding area.
Next time your on the water, suck a few in as you travel along, some areas definately smell differant to others.
Ok, Ive put it out there, let the piss take begin.....
goes with the Serenity ........ The smell of 2 stroke;D
Mate when I was there in Sept ....... I could still smell barra (dead ones);)
Hey ... with your record Brian - How many can argue :thumbup:
Chris
chewy01
13-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Brian sometimes you can also smell thick concentrations of bonys.Same as in the salt you can smell schools of mullet and herring.Bigs schools,tightly packed emit a very distinctive smell.It is really noticeable after a school has been attacked/harrassed by one of those marauding flocks of shags/pelicans,once the putrid shag smell has dissipated.Great hangover cure driving along behind a flock of shags iv found:):)
Steve B
13-01-2009, 09:05 PM
Ok, dont take the piss, but that might have something to do with why, when I round a corner, some spots smell fishy!
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pick yourself up off the floor and start pointing at the clown, but i reckon at times I smell a fishy spot, and have proven it to hold fish. Im not saying Im smelling barra, maybe the concentration of nutrients, and water turn over associated with a good fish holding area.
Next time your on the water, suck a few in as you travel along, some areas definately smell differant to others.
Ok, Ive put it out there, let the piss take begin.....
No Piss at all Brian....You do smell fish....bait and fish like chewy said.
Did you know they regurgitate as a fleeting response if they are spooked!!! I was told this by a very reliable source....then he proved it....you could smell it.
Steve
No Piss at all Brian....You do smell fish....bait and fish like chewy said.
Did you know they regurgitate as a fleeting response if they are spooked!!! I was told this by a very reliable source....then he proved it....you could smell it.
Steve
I get that way sometime ::) ...... you can usually follow the trail ;)
Chris
Ps ..... Gee I need to spend more time with you lot 8-)
chewy01
13-01-2009, 09:19 PM
Brian....the bony barra n bony whisperer....:):):)
chewy01
13-01-2009, 09:20 PM
no chance of any of the boys in cabins 2 or 4 smelling anything other than pauls shorts last trip..... ;););)
Big_Ren
14-01-2009, 05:24 AM
Play nice now Chew;D
Whitto
14-01-2009, 06:07 AM
Is that what that smell is.....I always thought it was Simon or Nath as we steamed up Barra alley.....FARTING;D
Tropicaltrout
14-01-2009, 06:42 AM
I have a question? You know how when we round a corner or fish a stretch of sticks and you get this huge gut feeling and cast into them and you get wacked why is that? You could go back to that spot a day later and not have it why?... The Monduran DVD has the answer....
Yeah all true but I am talking about the gut feeling the fishy smell before you hit a spot.... even a novice can get that I just wonder why, even when I fished 500 miles off shore we would go to the Marion or the jelly bean (sea mounts or reef) we would get ready to shoot the line and most of us just new we would do well...
Without whats happerning with the water atc why do we get that feeling?
Peter4
14-01-2009, 08:04 AM
Goes back to our basic instinct I reckon, Nath.....
I agree with both Brian's 'fishy smell' concept and the 'gut feel' concept.
Often when we are sounding out some new territory to fish Kyle will say "Hey Dad, I want to try this area for a while" even though there is nothing on the sounder and no bait or bird activity. About 4 times out of 5 something happens, not necessarily a barra, but something.....
Similarly we will pull up to one of our favourite spots and he will look around and say "Doesn't feel right today, Dad". I will persist and, of course, we strike out!
He is truly the chosen one........;)
SeekingBarradise
14-01-2009, 12:07 PM
Hi Brian i bet you are counting the days down till the Mondy trip?
The fishy smell has been mentioned by jm a few times. Barra spews etc.
Or when a boney has been smashed etc. Nice work taking note of this as many miss such a basic smell. Everytime i detect this oily smell i think " Ahh a barra has been feeding". I use it as a positive, hoping there will be others active as well.
Hi Nathan have you got the camp oven ready for the Mondy Trip?
The intuition/gut feel thought pattern has also been covered on here a few times by jm. There is a current thread on sweetwater about this topic called Visions After Dark by Dick Pasfield who writes great thinking threads.
Here is the link for anyone else interested in more than lures...
http://www.sweetwaterfishing.com.au/Forum/index.php/topic,2697.0.html
Hi Chris i just missed your Trolling thread before it was closed and i've lost 2 replies on this thread as well, damn computer logging me off. I'll try and post it again.
Cheers Lyndon.
yep, countin em down mate, work is painfull to the extreme at the moment, next year Im re-arranging my holidays a bit better!
Re the smell, its good to know Im not having some kind of flashback experience or anything.
It works the opposite as well, like the boys have allready said, and particularly in the rust water, some times you can look at it and just know your wasting your time, at least with a barra, theres a chance you might annoy a fish into a response.
DEANO68
14-01-2009, 07:55 PM
yep, countin em down mate, work is painfull to the extreme at the moment, next year Im re-arranging my holidays a bit better!
Re the smell, its good to know Im not having some kind of flashback experience or anything.
It works the opposite as well, like the boys have allready said, and particularly in the rust water, some times you can look at it and just know your wasting your time, at least with a barra, theres a chance you might annoy a fish into a response.
my countdown near done brian, all packed in the esky x 2 ..re : the smell, hope they smell better than me at the mo, will keep my eyes and nose peeled and hopefully put some juice on the tupperwere, if not havin fun trien..:D
deano..8-)
safe trip to you as well deano, hope ya smack em. Weather looks not to bad. Heres hoping the tupperware gets that noice fishy smell on it this week end mate!
DEANO68
14-01-2009, 08:19 PM
safe trip to you as well deano, hope ya smack em. Weather looks not to bad. Heres hoping the tupperware gets that noice fishy smell on it this week end mate!
cheers brian, weather yea does look ok, been s/e for a while now, might even find me a current. or two...::) ..
deano..8-)
Leave the fruit cake in the esky mate, eating wastes valuable casting time, fluid replenishment is vital, everything else is secondary.
Brian....the bony barra n bony whisperer....:):):)
hah, I wish mate. Wouldnt mind having the technique old mate the filly whisperer has on the beer add though....
DEANO68
14-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Leave the fruit cake in the esky mate, eating wastes valuable casting time, fluid replenishment is vital, everything else is secondary.
luv it..:D ..gotta steer so go a tad easy, make up for it at camp..just thought bout that, no wonder i enjoyed deckie life so much.:P
luv it..:D ..gotta steer so go a tad easy, make up for it at camp..just thought bout that, no wonder i enjoyed deckie life so much.:P
Ahhh the professional deckie turns skipper hey ? ....... Yeh you need to be responsible ( but nothing wrong with a 6 pack to celebrate a good fish:P )
Chris
So anyway ...... looking through the results over the last 12 months , I can see why I've gone down the path of Concentrating my efforts - The best part of 90% of the boats captures were achieved either on anchor / tied off or using the leccy to hold in an area ........... Surprising though when considering that more than half the time was spent running & Gunning.
Most sessions included multiple fish....... or at least multiple strikes :)
:book2: Why was the stay & play approach so successful ? ....... Is it because once you've found what you are looking for (bait , compressed water movement , topography ..... or just held up fish) ........ Sooner or later a fish has to come by - Transient fish - ---- IMO These Transient fish are the ones that are likely to be the actively feeding ones...... or looking to feed.
So on the back of a malfunctioning leccy back in March in pretty horrible conditions ...... out of necessity we had to anchor! coupled with some sound advice of Dr Awoonga (Trev) - All was not lost , sort of like loosing one of your senses & developing another. .. - For me it was a revelation - & is now the go to tactic ........
:stop: The leccy is one of our most important assets on our boats ........ but in some ways does it hinder us from improving our results - The ease of gliding from one location to the next under possibly a misguided belief that we are using stealth is too compelling ......... But at what cost ?
I certainly feel that ..... letting an area settle & concentrating your casting over a period of time - does bring positive results , specially if you have faith in your chosen area...... It may take an hour or so - but a little patience may just be worth it
Now ..... I'm not saying that the run & gun approach is wrong .... Far from it! - but just maybe we use it too much ..... :-/
Just my opinion
Chris
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