How do I lift a 23' Shark Cat 5 to 6 feet into the air

[Fatenhappy]

Probably and normally with free access it wouldn't be such a challenge, but with limited yard space, the challenge is on to lift 2 1/2 ton 5 to 6 feet into the air and keep her there for a couple of weeks.

F&H has been out of the water since Feb/Mar for her reno with me being pretty slack for the majority of the winter. I finally got off my lazy back side about October and have been progressing nicely only to find, as I eventually knew I would, that getting her up high enough to do the necessary hull work would be a real challenge.

There's no to very little access for any heavy machinery etc being brought into the back yard, so Australians being an ingenious bunch, I thought I'd call on the brotherhood for any realistic economic solutions.

The only thing I have come up with is 4 independent stacks of cross hatch timbers, (like what they do and use for removal houses) building up each stack to support each corner of the twin hulls as she is jacked.

To achieve this, start off with a large cross beam supporting under the forward section of the twin hulls, jack and support that, then alternate to the aft hull sections alternately jacking with a trolley jack as you go forward and aft.

Obviously the trolley jack also needs to go airborne as well as the stacks increase in height.

To consider buying something that can do the job is a bit ludicrous (i've priced car 4 poster systems and they are in the mid 3 grand range) Its only a one off for a few weeks, and I don't know of any style of independent lifting gear that can do it any other way.

From an OH&S perspective there are no kids, the yard is fully fenced 6' colourbond and so this is a totally controlled environment.

As an aside when she was brought into the yard we had to use a semi for transport, then lift her over the back fence with a 20 ton mobile crane all via the rear council park .

The photo shows her when she was first moved into the yard. As can be seen there is about a metre to spare on the sides and that's about it for supporting her.

Any constructive input would be appreciated .... :-X :-/

Thanks
Greg

[Dan5]

Mate you could proberbly build an A frame either side and put some chainblocks on it with some web sling's.........It'll be a lot cheaper than a 4 poster and could be disasembled and used agin when needed.

Dan.

[Chimo]

Hi Greg

If it was me I'd give some house movers a bell and get them to lift it and to put it down when your ready for the next stage.

You can only be an expert in most things; you can't be brilliant at everything and this is one of those especially as the house movers have got trewalla jacks that would eat F&H without any risk to anyone!

Or better still if you can swing it, can you get one of the Marina forklifts to your location to lift F&H onto stands you can erect on site and move into place once its up?

Cheers
Chimo

[Fatenhappy]

Thanks guys ...

Dan the A frame sounds a possibility ....

Chimo ... bit far from a marina as there is nothing around here. I think Scraborough would be the closest .... I would consider getting the 20 tonner back to lift her again, but 2 trips at $400 - 500 a hit is getting up there. As you suggest might try some house movers to see if they are interested !!!

Be interesting to see what the brotherhood can come with in the mean time .... ;D

[Blackened]

G'day

Do any of the hire companies have anything that could work? coates and the like?

Dave

[DAVE_S]

Greg
get your self some pallets and 2 heavy beams and do it your self
a house raiser is going to charge at least $1500 he will also charge for the hire of his gear while it sits there .
if i was still in the game i could help you out all i can offer you now is jacks and my experience , beams and stys all sold .:(

[finga]

An engine crane might do the job
Bung it on the back and do the big heeve ho then bung the engine crane on the front and the same again.
I think mine is rated to 1500kg's...but I could be really wrong too.
How's that sound??

[Ally Jack]

FnH,

I' with Dan, the a frame system would be the easiest.
You could hire the chain blocks, lifting slings and spreader bars from a hire company, and build the A frame yourself.
It would be easy to put up and bring down, and the A frame could be used again when your ready to put her back in the water.

Ally Jack

[foggy]

How did the boat get there in the first place. There must be some sort of access. A decent franna is probably only as wide as the boat, so if the boat got there, the franna should get up behing her and will lift that in a pinch. Only need to be able to drive stright up behind it or even lift it from the other side of the fence. Once lifted the timber beams, blocks and a few tyres will keep her up there.

Foggy

[oldboot]

I would be steering away from any overhead improvised lifting......it is simply too hard and complicated to do it safely...not to mention the height of the structure you would have to build.

You would be far better off with the jack and sty method just like house lifting.

you are only lifting 100 to 150mm in a bite and the beams and sties remain under the load at all times.

A couple of 2.5 tonne jacks is reasonably cheap to hire or buy..... the bigest expense will be the timbers......

I would be thinking a bit more modest and think about 3 or 4 feet rather than 5 to 6 feet

another option for support would be suitably rated scafolding tressels.... you can still lift 15 to 200mm in a bite.


OH OH OH::)

just had a thaught....... in stead of raising the boat....... why not lowere the ground;D

cheers

[Fatenhappy]

Do any of the hire companies have anything that could work? Coates and the like?
Dave .... have had a bit of a look and at this stage, nothing has come to fruition .... but still looking though ...

Dave_S ....
Get your self some pallets and 2 heavy beams and do it your self .... this is still about the current thought pattern ..... and a special thanks for the offer of the jacks ... i'll place the offer on hold for the time being if I may depending on what I come with if I may ...

Finga .....
An engine crane might do the job
Bung it on the back and do the big heeve ho then bung the engine crane on the front and the same again. ..... very similar again to my current train of thought only i'd be substituting with a 2500 kilo trolley jack, that i've already got !!

Foggy ....

How'd I get it there ???

As originally described, the boat came over the back fence using a 20 ton crane at a fair amount of expense and logistics ...

Old boot ....
I would be thinking a bit more modest and think about 3 or 4 feet rather than 5 to 6 feet

Lifting the extra couple of feet is definitely the only option. Otherwise the expense and trouble is not utilised and the whole reason for lifting to achieve the other outcomes will only be compromised....

Thanks for the suggestions fellas, they are all good so far and food for thought. Appreciate the efforts but nothing that's really jumping out at me so far as "the magic cure" .... :-/

[MyWay]

dont lift it
dig down

[cormorant]

That height will make it very unstable and dangerous on a grass platform or you will need large columns of wood or whatever making all work nearly impossible and tedious.

Think about tilting and doing one hull at a time? Low risk and easy to support.

If lifting I would only go up 2 feet and that will make it comfortable enough to work on (buy some knee pads) and safe. About the height of 6 or 8 concrete filled 20l drums on some good flat wooden bases of half railway sleepers.

Trolley jack is the wrong sort on soft ground so make sure it is on a stable base of sleepers or just use a straight lift.

Any higher than that and there is too much risk in the lift and the instability as you move supports to get to the bits at the top of the drums.

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day Greg,

I assume the works underneath are stripping antifoul and repainting?

By the look of the photo you have enough room to work under there laying down.

If you leave it where it is, you could do a bit under one sponson, then go elsewhere to give yourself a break.

Not the easiest place to work, but even lifted up it will be a bitch of a job.

Painting at that height is not a problem.

Cheers

Pete

[Lovey80]

Mate I have done what you are about to do countless times. The only difference is I was raising and lowering the ends of a Bridge many times that weight about the same distance up and down. The A Frame method is just as safe and a lot faster how ever the right equipment is needed and a pailing out of the fence would be required to anchore some SWR at a distance. I have done the jack method many times too how ever it is far slower and tedious. (there are certain situations where each method is used). If i was home i could help you out with either but as I'm not i suggest the jack method with a little bit of advice:

1. Do not use a trolley jack, yes it is easy but any decent weight can see them move. Use a hydraulic cylinder jack with a flat bottom bigger the better but a min of 2t (2 in fact side by side about 1m appart. when they blow it is usually slow but the other can be reversed slowly to lower it back down as the other one is giving out with out danger to anyone. If a single one blows they can go violently).

2. You'll need some hands. 2 guys on the jacks at one end and 2 others ready to slide chocks/baulks under her as she raises at that end enough to slide them in. once you have gone 3/4 the length of the jack shaft chose either 1 more baulk up or lower it back down onto the last and change ends. Make sure you get the chocks/baulks a good way under her so the outside ends dont try and lift in the air. Also try and make the baulks at similar height or similar at each side so when you lower it down to change ends she is level.

3. Your going to need a lot of timber/planks/baulks. Perfect would be ally scaffold in m lengths or there abouts. Depending on thickness you will need 6 x 6ft. 1 for the jacks to sit on as its going up. 4 for the boat to sit on. And an extra 6ft set for when you want to do the spots that are blocked by the 4 that you are under the boat. I wouldn't recommend lifting the boat up and stripping down one of your pillars and moving it a foot or 2 with just the jacks holding it. Use that 6th set to stack up where you want to move them to, jack up again move one plank from the original position and regain the height in the new one and lower back down. Do that on all four corners and your done for that last little bit.

4. I'd use a large steel beam for the cross girder under the hull instead of a timber one for the jacks to go up on.

5. Be patient, once she is at the height tie it down as good as possible at each end at the corners ( like the end of a small 4 pole tarp). She wont move port to starboard but f'ard and aft is a fair bit less stable. Use as strong a possible ground points and a double truckies with thick rope. Port (front and rear) then Starboard front and rear. Have somone stand off to the side to direct traffic at this point as too much one way can get nasty but once its even it will be solid as a rock..

Cheers Chris

P.S. The tricky part at the begining will be getting the beam under her and getting the jacking started ( i'll leave that to you to figure out).

[PinHead]

The other problem is..if you use too much in the way of support under the hull you will not be able to access those areas to work on them.
I would do the work where it is..a grass base really is not suitable to lift and keep stable without a lot of timber traversing the area.

[FNQCairns]

Gotta agree with cormorant on the height, 5 or 6 foot is a total and potentially disastrous luxury that is often not afforded to the worker at even some of the biggest boat yards. a couple of feet is enough and thousands have done it before you so it does work, the idea of digging down has merit also, if it can be made to work as it might not.

cheers fnq

[Fatenhappy]

Thanks Myway, Cormorant, Pete, Chris and FNQ ....

Not having mentioned previously, I am fairly annal about saftey having worked in and around aircraft for a good percentage of my life.

When we jack those we most often use a screw version of what is similar to bottle jacks that have one or two locking rings. There's normally one bloke per jack and one person overseaing (all at the same time as she is raised) You simply start jacking and as you go utilise the locking ring against the mating lower surface to lock the jack off at what ever the desired height is as its being raised to make sure all is well. They also double as a work stand, but these aren't suitable for this job.

F&H is currently sitting about a foot or so as we speak as can be seen from the pickies and even there although happy with the way she is I can see how there could be serious OH&S issues if she is not raised securely. Any further jacking as previously, will only be carried out using a large flat secure base from which to work on at each of the support stands and of course under any jacking point.

The main reason for the extended lift is to give access for bead blasting gear as I have all but given up on the brown goo method of removal of the antifoul. Having said that all is not lost yet and will again be adjudged when she is up higher.

And yeah Pete ... point definitely taken, she is going to tied ff on all four quarters once raised .....

Thanks again Greg

[trymyluck]

Hi Mate
Have a look at air bag lifting jacks, they slide into the smallest of gaps and will lift around 300mm at a time.
I'm pretty sure you can hire them quite cheap.
Mark

[cormorant]

Are you going to re- antifoul and bead blasting antifoul without breathing apparatus is very bad due to copper and algaecides. Algecides kill lungs as a airbourne just and copper and other chemicals in via lungs or skin

What chemicals have you tried? There are several avaliable including some commercial caustics that do a good job on some antifouls. I'll look in my files and try and get some brand names and there was a thread here
months ago.

Seriously thing of wet injection on the bead blasting and either way tarp the grass as you dont want the residue for kids or on the neighbours vegies. The hyderangers turn a nice blue though.

We have used air sanders with a water spray ( ie wet sand) and you can do a very good job fast and compresser and cheap tool is easy. Tarp slid under supports to make a pool and you can just recycle the small amount of water through a diaphram pump in a small well . Start rotary air sander to take the bulyk off and finish with air orbital for a fine finish.

So to be clear- it is not a repair as such but just a strip and re- antifoul or is it going to be painted or pollished?

Cheers.

PS Digging anything is dangerous due to the stability of support for the boat and a definate no no in my mind

Air bag jacks are great for thier purpose but they are not a controlled lift in so many cases unless like in a 4WD the other 3 wheels are acting as stabilising props. Tandem vertical screw or hydraulic is a better option as the boat has no lateral support to stop it sliding off to one side which could happen with a airbag.

[seabug]

[quote=cormorant;
Air bag jacks are great for thier purpose but they are not a controlled lift in so many cases unless like in a 4WD the other 3 wheels are acting as stabilising props. Tandem vertical screw or hydraulic is a better option as the boat has no lateral support to stop it sliding off to one side which could happen with a airbag.[/quote]

Even under a FWD airbags are dangerous
they move around and could easily trap some-ones arm etc

Regards
seabug

[Fatenhappy]

Thanks Cormorant for the suggestions ....

To answer the last first ... the antifoul thats on the old girl is harder than granite, even after 9 months out of the water ....

I studied old threads here and even ran one of my own on removing the antifoul with the hot favorites for my application being the brown goo and paper and secondly bead blasting ..

I have run a fair amount of application of the brown goo to the externals of the outer hulls and that's ok where you have plenty of access. As far as access to the twin hulls under the boat goes, I'm pretty sure there is no way it will be anything other than an absolute crap job unless the hull can be elevated to a reasonable height minium probably 4 to 5 feet.

Re the finish, I am looking to completely rejuvinating the hull as close as possible back to original pre her antifoul days ... (at least that's the plan - provided it can be achieved)

As an aside as far as OH&S goes re the garbage that's taken off, I have been using a truck load of very heavy grade shade cloth spread everywhere with tarps under. The shade cloth is allowed to dry then the crap thrown from that into the bin. The pressure cleaned off spray goes into the chemical waste at work. I wear goggles and a sperm suit!

Having said all this, any new pointers that anyone can give on the antifoul as you are doing, I'm definitely up for as well and will be appreciated

Cheers
Greg

[foggy]

How did the boat get there in the first place. There must be some sort of access. A decent franna is probably only as wide as the boat, so if the boat got there, the franna should get up behing her and will lift that in a pinch. Only need to be able to drive stright up behind it or even lift it from the other side of the fence. Once lifted the timber beams, blocks and a few tyres will keep her up there.

Foggy


Just re read the original and I missed the bit about the crane and park access the first time completely. (xmas hang over maybe, or i am just getting old).

The airbag idea could work with a bit of thought. A post up either side of the boat, front and back, and brace out as far as you can to the sides and also braced together both above and below the boat. Maybe 50mm x 4mm steel posts with downey fence fittings to tie it all together. Then the airbag (or trolley jack)could be utilised without the risk of the boat moving. Lift the front two or three hundred chock up with timber, move to the back and do the same.

I can get hold of all the steel pipe and fittings to bolt it all together for nadda if your interested.

Foggy

[Fatenhappy]

Hey guys (and again Foggy .... ) really do appreciate all the offered assistance .... much appreciated .... especially in its various forms ....

From a couple of the suggestions so far, I really don't care if it is a long and laborious process. Even if only lifting 100mils at a time as long as it is safe and steady as she goes to achieve a good result .... ;D

Thinking that perhaps Oldboots suggestion of halving that to 3 or 4 feet might have to be the compromise irrespective ...... we'll see !:(

[griz066]

Not wanting to sound like a smarta$$ but why didnt you set it up at the right height with the crain from the start........sorry

[spears]

How to lift it ..that’s easy..whoops maybe not..

[Blackened]

G'day

How about a tin or two of spinach?

It was about time for a funny suggestion :P

Dave

[Grand_Marlin]

or lay under it with the PlayBoy mags ;D

[Blackened]

or lay under it with the PlayBoy mags ;D

G'day
classic pete!!.... is that resin getting to you? ;D

Dave

[Mr__Bean]

or lay under it with the PlayBoy mags ;D


You wish!!!!

[Grand_Marlin]

G'day
is that resin getting to you? ;D

Dave


:freak: not sure ...

Floor is in though ;)

[Fatenhappy]

Hey poppey ... I mean Dave ... sounds like the go !!!

[capt]

[quote=cormorant;946163]That height will make it very unstable and danger.

Think about tilting and doing one hull at a time? Low risk and easy to support.

Brillant Cormorant, I did the same to a mono hull some years ago.

Cheers Jimmy

[Roughasguts]

Have you looked in to soda blasting instead of bead blasting.
Soda blasting is a pretty good way to go with out damaging the glass underneath.

We managed to get our 21 foot clinker boat 3 tonnes worth up on a molner car hoist. But that's no use to you in the back yard, plus your probably a lot wider than our old tub.

[Fatenhappy]

No roughasguts the cat comes in at about 2550 on the beam so the same width there abouts as max size trailable hulls ...

Experimented yesterday by cutting down some old palletts that we had from work into smaller versions of the same. They're now about 550/600 mm square, but still left them as the same thickness. Hasn't come up too badly for the effort with the old girl sitting at about 1100 mils under the centre tunnel section. And very happy to see she's sitting as steady as a rock

Might finish up going another foot (maybe) but that would be about it. The only real tricky bit is positioning the trolley jack in the correct position in the first place, under the mid point of the sponon. Otherwise I have to relocate then rebuild the stack again before lifting each time.

Re the soda blasting, yes I did have a look at it early in the year, but I'll see how I go with the rest of the brown goop over the next few weeks, unless you have any better ideas .... always open to a good suggestions or experienced points of view .... :P

Cheers
Greg

[lippa]

:freak: not sure ...

Floor is in though ;)


;D floor was going in, in 2 weeks, 8 months ago!!!!!;D ;D


happy new year

[finding_time]

G'day

How about a tin or two of spinach?

It was about time for a funny suggestion :P

Dave

And here i was going to sugest driving it into a head sea at 25knts that would get it 6 feet in the air!!;) ! Then i saw the pic?:-X :o :o ;D

ia

[Fatenhappy]

Happy new year one and all and thanks for your help along the way !!! ::) :) ;D :P

[Lovey80]

Any photo's mate like progress pics to show how you did it?

Cheers

Chris

[Fatenhappy]

G'day Chris ...

Quite simply each of the normal sized pallets is just under 1200 mm square. Each can be reworked into three mini pallets. That come down to about 550ish mm square with each still remaining at the original height of 6" or about 150 mm.

Alternately jack each sponson using a moveable stack that was placed in the centre of the load. I went no more than one of the reworked mini pallets or about 150 mm at any time. I used my 2500 kilo floor jack with a large block of wood directly under the keel in the centre. Then placed a pair of the newly reworked mini pallets under each side building as I went.

F&H2 is currently sitting on 5 or 6 mini pallets to each corner at the present time. I paid particular attention to sitting each pallet exactly the same way to the previous so that there was constant load transfer through the contact of each piece of timber to the bottom pallet and the ground ..... in other words, sat each pallet idendically to the one below each.

She is sitting as steady as a rock and I would be amazed if I could not at least double the height, but would want to tie (lash) down each corner using "truckies knots" for stability from unexpected winds and the like.

Please excuse the dull light in the foties, but it was late when I read your request for the same and so the limited light !!!

As an aside .... the little lovelly still reckons she's the ugliest garden gnome ever ..... but I said I reckon the little lovelly still looks good too, she got my point, she just smiled and walked away ....

Cheers again .... ;D ;D ;D
Greg

[cormorant]

Happy new year.

Looks good when off teh ground just watch those pallets especially when they are cut down very closely as have seen them slip sideways or collapse on sites where weight is put on them. Inspect them every time you go out or to be safe screw a 4*2 down 2 sides of each stack to keep em in line.

I wouldn't go higher

[SgBFish]

Why not just roll upside down.
Easier to work on then.

[Fatenhappy]

4 x 2 or similar sounds like a good idea .... thanks Cormorant