Does el-cheapo do the job..?

[PNG1M]

Hi all,

I've been noticing some comments recently in a few threads about 'cheap' gear in comparison with more 'expensive' gear.

Someone wrote recently that the rod itself doesn't really matter (a cheapy will do) as long as the terminals are good quality & the lure is presented properly.

If hooking the fish is the main thing - what about landing it?

There was a recent thread enquiry about what was a good cheap rod to buy. One response was something like 'why not get the best you can afford, instead of going cheap?' I reckon that was good advice even though some fishos do not agree.

Personally, I've gone cheap before and have generally ended up having to buy again. I've seen a members signature recently saying that the poor man always pays twice!?

Why buy twice? Twice can even end up being 'thrice!" Then after you get tired of replacing gear that lets you down, you end up buying better quality. Why not get the decent stuff in the first place (or at least start saving for it).

It's happened to me before with buying cheap sunnies! Now I buy decent ones.
(if you buy it cheap, you'll buy it again)

I've enjoyed my fishing much more since I stopped buying 'el-cheapo' gear.
Better tackle gives you a feeling of confidence and a sense of fulfilment that your are doing what you like doing (fishing..) and are enjoying it with good quality equipment (that won't let you down).

Fishing in PNG might be a bit different to many other locations, but in my first few outings I had two baitcast reels (a Corsair and an Induron) that were stuffed up good & proper within three seconds of hooking a black bass.

When I upgraded & started using Calcuttas & similar the bass were the ones on the receiving end.

I know there is such a thing as 'mid-range' priced tackle and some of it is quite good (like Jarvis Walker & Silstar) but generally, is it better to buy 'cheap' or not?

So how do other readers feel about this topic?

[struktcha_man]

I voted for el-cheapo mainly for the reason of my choice of braid today .
I went the Berkely Fireline, I dunno its the cheapest but funnily enough I have caught more fish on it and bigger fish on it than any other braid, strange but true.

As for Rod I have a loomisand an Egrell, but I am noticing some very nice rods in stores lately under $150.00

But as for larger fish in open water, I think el cheapo might not get you there.

so my vote was not exactly right,but I definitely don't even rate surecatch as fishing gear, instead of elcheapo I would say its elcrappo.

cheers

[Jeremy]

pretty difficult poll to answer IMHO. Are you talking ebay Chinese crap cheap, or Jarvis Walker cheap, or Daiwa or Shimano cheap?
Is $120 cheap for a bream/bass rod, or do you need to spend $450 on a loomis or egrell?
What is the best you can afford?
etc etc

I have sually bought mid to upper range gear, but never or rarely top of the line stuff. I admit it took me a few years to find a good quality spinning reel for 1 and 2kg pretest fishing with smooth enough drag. Went through one Shimano reel at around $130 and an Okuma at similar money and neither were good enough for the job. I settled on a couple of Stradics about 4 years ago now and haven't looked back. Then again, could have gone to a Stella, but that would have been a big stretch.

Jeremy

[breamnut]

working in the fishing industry for a few years now u get to see how much the fishing scean has changed, plastics have really taken of, and from 3-4 years ago the average fisherman would be looking at a combo up to $100, now a combo over $300 is easy to sell as people really want the right gear for the job.
i feel that lure fishing requires better gear as constant casting and retrieving puts alot of stress on a reel.
and depending on what type of fishing you choose to do will determan what quality of gear u need.
with the jack season this year of to a flying start alot of guys have wanted to catch there first jack but only want to spend very little,there gear ends up coming back a few weeks later warn out and they end up buying better.
another example is game fishing, the old trusty tld has been around for a long time and proved itself to be an exellent reel but since the tyrnos has been around ive found u will sell 5 tyrnos to 1 tld.

[NAGG]

Hey PNG .... you're definitely going to get some bites on this one :P

I'm all for the adage of buying the best you can afford ...... its sound advice!

I guess the difficult question is where does the quality line cross the price curve ....... & unless you understand this .... you may end up paying twice> The punter needs to understand what he is buying , what he is using it for & how often does he intend to use it !

The fishing rod is a classic example ....... & if you understand the product you can judge the suitability & value

A rod that carries say fuji componentry is a good start ...... If the guides are SiC even better & Fuji SiC Titanium even better still ......... How about the blank - Is it light , does it have power in the right place or does it feel like a billiard cue or a noodle.......... Do you understand modulus IM8 Vs Graphite blends ..... or straight glass (advantages , disadvantages) - while it may sound complicated , once understood ......you can start to take advantage of good buys.

OK so what is cheap / value (Sticking with baitcasters or spin rods)
Rods that are usable & will do the job ... but will probably be upgraded ( a good starting point for an occasional fishoe) ......... A shimano raider , berkley dropshot , Ugly stick Platinum , live fibre , Pflueger Trion , Sic Stik etc ($100 - $150) IMO ..... under this price you are bound to have issues or be buying a rod that is tolerable at best .

Mid price rods ($150-$300) ....... If you know what you are looking for , you can buy rods that perform extremely well ....... This is where I feel you get value for money & may find a rod that will serve you exceptionally well for a long time ...... GL2 Loomis , Nitros , T Curves , Sic Stik pros , Daiwa advantage / sols, Starlo Stix Pros etc etc

High end ( $300-$500) ..... This is where you find rods that are more refined .... They offer even better design & balance (blank quality) - if you can afford it go for it - specially if you will use the rod often ....... Egrell Bear , Millerods , Loomis , T Curve Flights , Shimano Firebloods , Live Fibre Territory , Plueger Supreme ....... & lots of custom builds

Top shelf ($500+) ..... Honestly this is what I consider as specialist tackle ..... Rods build with a lot of refinement for specific applications ...... Millerod Camofish , Megabass , Smiths , GLX Loomis , Daiwa Steez & more high end custom builds .......IMO the average fishoe wouldn't gain much from this gear.

so that's my opinion on rods ....... Quality blanks , guides , reel seat & cork ..... balance .... should be the priority8-) while el Cheapo may do the job (but for how long) or what enjoyment will you get out of using it

Chris

[PNG1M]

Hmmm...interesting and tru!

Knowing exactly what you need and fine tuning your tackle to your preferences are important factors in setting yourself up with the right gear for your type of fishing.

I started fishing with a handline & earthworms off a jetty in the Clarence River when I was seven. I first used a rod at age 10 (courtesy of Santa). I didn't even use use a lure until I was 20+

But even though, over the years I got to try plenty of different styles & brands of rods & reels - mostly the cheaper ones.

With experience comes a more precise knowledge of "what works for you".

I haven't voted on the pole yet but even though lately I've been focusing more on top shelf equipment, I'm going to vote the middle one - buy the best quality you can afford - or at least the best quality for the job you expect it to do.

Generally the better the quality, the more likely it will equal better performance, increased reliability, peace of mind for you & a more enjoyable fishing experience.
Plus the psychological advantage of feeling confident about your equipment.

It's kind of a tricky one.

In a few months time for example I'll be setting myself up with an entire beach fishing outfit, from scratch - plus one for my wife. I'll be hitting Fraser for a week but then I don't know how much more use the gear will get after that.

So will I be spending top dollar? NO
Will I buy the best gear I can afford? NO
Will I buy the cheapest setup I can find? NO

Question: What will I buy?
Answer: Mid-range gear with a reasonable reputation that will be well up to the task of a solid week of beach fishing. I'll probably go Silstar or something like that. Or maybe a 10' Silstar powertip rod with a 6500 Penn spinfisher reel.

Whatever I decide, I'll try to match the gear to my fishing expectations, requirements & preferences, so it won't be top dollar; it won't be el-cheapo and it won't necessarily be the best I can afford.

So there you go, I managed t get myself tangled up in my own question..! Geeeze

[NAGG]

PNG ..... Your approach to beach fishing gear is probably the right one - - - unless you plan to go beach fishing often -
Its interesting really ........ I've gone from being a fishoe that buys high end rods to one that will now look for quality mid range (or buy at the best price) ....... This has been made easier with the higher quality these days........ You can buy a cracker of a bream , bass or barra rod for $200-$300 these days ......... 5 years ago :(

Chris

[skipalong]

mate all comes down to budget, if you got the know how, any rod will get you the fish, and i think this is how we all started out, but obviously more expensive rods have there benifits of control, strength and durability, but in saying that i have caught 20kg fish on 70 dollar rods just takes a llittle longer,

cheers justin

[Tangles]

When i walk into a tackle store, i buy what has my name on it, used to think about what i would buy/ price/value etc but that takes too long. I dont look at the price too much as if its calling me, thats it, im a goner

Edit I should say sucker lol but it works for me

mike

[charleville]

I suspect that the answer really depends on whether you are a bait fisho who soaks their bait whilst drifting or anchored or a lure fisho who actively works their lures.


I am exclusively a bait fisho and I struggle to notice any practical difference between my $200 rods and my $35 Penns bought from Kmart sales. I am just as excited no matter which one goes off.

However, even as a bait fisho, I will work the bait up and down current if I am not drifting and in that case a light but strong rod makes the exercise less like - er - well - exercise.

I have had an el cheapo Chinese bait-runner type reel disintegrate in my hands during a big run by the one-that-got-away but likewise, I have caught heaps of quality fish with $20 Shimano reels that I keep on board for guests but end up using a lot myself because they are so uncomplicated. They don't last forever, notwithstanding their ten year guarantee but what the heck, they only cost $20.


At the end of the day, it is how the other end of the line is presented to the fish that makes the greatest difference, in my view.

At my end of the line, I have found that $200 live fibre rods break just as easily as the cheapies when you stand on them. Ouch! Bugga! Damn! ;D

[Jeremy87]

How about buying what is necessary? I know i tend to spend more than this but as someone working in a tackle shop that largely caters for the low end of the price spectrum i am fighting a constant battle trying to find suitable tackle for customers at the lowest price. I'll list what i consider what is the cheapest tackle i would recommend with confidence to a customer for different luring applications.

Bream, bass, flathead/ light spin
Reel. shimano sedona/daiwa excelor $100-$120
Rod. 6'6"-7ft basic shimano graphite rod SSS/Sahara $50-60
Line platyl millerium, fireline, clear platypus pre test $10-25
total $160-200

Barra baitcaster
Reel Abu 5000 red $120
Rod basic shimano graphite rod, berkley drop shot $50-80
Line 30lb platyl, 20lb platypus pre test $15-25
Total. $185-220

Metal casting rod
Reel 4000 sahara, 4000 exceler $120
Rod 7'6" shimano snapper spin, berkley dropshot equivelent $60-90
Line 15lb braid, 4-6kg mono $15-25
Total. $190-230

Of coarse fish can be landed on cheaper rods, but when someone comes in and says i want to cast lures and get good life out of my gear then this is what i consider a minimum. From this point on extra money will just increase ease of use and longivity of the outfit. For the enthusiastic angler I have a higher level of minimum requirements. Componentry on rods need to fuji and guides need to be alconites or better, increasingly more towards Sics, for example the starlo stic pro range are fitted with steel v frame Sic's for 180 a piece with good cork and a crisp lightweight blank. Exceptional value for money but hard to be taken seriously with a name like that. At this point i suggest to anglers to make there outfits specific to what they are targetting or what types of lures they wish to deliver.

The focus for reels now shifts towards pleasentness to use, ie smootheness and weight reduction aswell as features that add to the durability of the reel. Spin reels like stradics, tierras and sols are the kind of reels that I consider to be the best value for money ie i don't think i would catch any more fish on a stella or a hyper custom certate than a stradic or a sol. Also the extra life expectancy of these reels do not outweigh the extra dollars as in a 500 reel wont remain fishable for twice as long as a 250 dollar one.

So in answering the question is buying cheap a good option? Well it depends, if your budget is limited and you want to go fishing as often as possible it makes sense to maybe spend $300-500 and get good capable tackle without draining the bank on top end gear preventing you from actually going fishing cause your broke. However for regular anglers buying a 50-100 outfit is false economy, the gear is likely to lose you fish from either failure or poor performance and in the long term end up costing about the same as buying 1 decent outfit instead of 2 or 3 cheap ones with the benifit of actually having enjoyable tackle to use.

[PinHead]

the correct answer is:
It is all good regardless of what it cost to buy...until it breaks then it all becomes a uselss piece of crap.

[PNG1M]

Thanks for all the good responses so far guys.
Food for thought plus some darn good information about tackle & options.
Great stuff..!

[Jeremy87]

When i walk into a tackle store, i buy what has my name on it, used to think about what i would buy/ price/value etc but that takes too long. I dont look at the price too much as if its calling me, thats it, im a goner

Edit I should say sucker lol but it works for me

mike

Mike your only a sucker if your buying it because its expensive, buying expensive tackle because the enjoyment of your fishing experience is lifted from it, both in catches and just using good gear is a different matter all together. At the moment i'm looking at a dedicated bass spin stick for fishing impoundments from a boat (rather than a canoe). I looked at every rod on the rack both at work and tackle warehouse and nothing reached out to me and said buy me. I'm talking a price range from about $200-750 bucks (i would have been just as happy with the 200 rod as the 750 if i liked the feel of the 200 dollar one), so i'm looking at a custom.

[Horse]

Some very good posts above. The idea of the cost/performance ratio giving a true value of the gear means that the mid to lower end stacks up pretty well. I would be suprised if any of the outfits mentioned in Jeremy87's post would lose many fish to tackle failture compared to the top shelf offerings.
Just remember that the top of the range today will be the mid range stuff in a year or so:-/ . The cheaper outfits will land as many fish as the more expensive stuff.:o
If you get more enjoyment out of something with a higher price tag and perhaps an extra bearing or two then go for it but it probably will not make you a better fisho;) ;D

Neil

[FNQCairns]

Rod - not every important for 90% of uses unless casting very often and then a middle of the road one will suffice quite handsomely for 90% of the those people in my experience.

Reels - middle of the road reels work very well if a person does their homework competently before purchase - so very important, this to me has not changed in 20 years.

It's like cars - an old dunger family car will usually get you to where you want to go, a new basic and typical family car should do it as reliably or better incorporating more but enough ease of use/comfort and a longer lifespan from that point.

From here and upward the purchase incorporates more the individual as the travel and usefulness component has been well covered in the other cars so now personality type mainly will drive all or most all of the justification, for all but the very special interest user.

cheers fnq

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

i work on the best you can afford theory..
unless you fish hard & a lot i doubt the average fisho would pick the difference between a top end & a middle of the road outfit. My daughter has had a Shimano spin outfit for about 4 years, cost the princely sum of $57 on sale. It's looked after & for general estuary use it performs faultlessly, the drag only has one washer in it so it gets a bit jerky if a fish starts to take too much line, but still not a worry if the drag it set to suit. the rod is a little clear tipped thing thats a bit soft & floppy, again it does the job well. I still use a couple of 25 yo shakespeare & diawa reels which had the washers replaced with oil soaked leather, while they are a bit heavier (all metal) & not as smooth as newer ones, they will still do the job just as well as newer ones.
I personally feel a lot of people are caught up in the marketing of the 'Name' product & spend way more than they need to just so they can be one of the 'gang' & say" i have a 4-6kg youbeaut floppycastor" too..."with matching reel" my 2cents..

[Jeremy]

I personally feel a lot of people are caught up in the marketing of the 'Name' product & spend way more than they need to just so they can be one of the 'gang' & say" i have a 4-6kg youbeaut floppycastor" too..."with matching reel" my 2cents..

Ain't that the truth.
Jeremy

[trueblue]

I am less concerned about the rod than the reel

smooth drag is a must, with low maintenance requirements

I've been happy with mid ranged Shimano reels so far.

I will upgrade to some higher end shimano reels later on, but only when doing so for a specific reason

cheers

Mick

[TuffTackle]

Hi, from a traders point of view, and something most fishing tackle buyers don't realise, is most of the mid range stuff comes from the same factories.

Penn don't make anything
Silstar don't make anything
Jarvis walker doesn't make anything
Daiwa doesn't make anything
And so on.

Alot of misconception is that there's alot of 'Cheap chinese copies'
There is and then there isn't.
Confused ??

If you find a brand reel and find a reel that looks the same with a cheaper brand name (it's the same reel) not a copy.

Tica
Browning
Silstar
Flueger
Shakespeare
And so on.
Are all from the same off the shelf manufacturers, they are not specifcly designed and manufactured products.

Top shelf brands like DAIWA, SHIMANO do design their own stuff, and do monitor their own quality controls, not necesarily in their own factory.

For mid range stuff from the above brands it is the same products and from the same factories as Tica, browning etc etc.

High end you get the best possible quality monitoring by the "Brand"
So in mid range, buy only on price, ignore the brand.
In bottom range stay away (made by backyard type small factories)

The bigger the brand name, the overheads and advertising you pay for.

As for rods, there's 1000's of manufacturers, if you see rods that look similar or have same looking , size blanks, it's the same blank.

Brand name components are a better choice on rods. Fuji, BayPac etc.

[1lastcast]

Many people think that a stella or saltiga is to expensive and will do the same job as a lesser expensive or lesser quality reel and i used to think the same - until i used one , chalk and cheese really .
I would rather save and have the top end stuff ( if i can afford it i will have it ) .
Having said that if i was unable to afford it then whatever i could afford would do the job

CHEAP V EXPENSIVE / E-TEC V 4STROKE will it ever end ------ i don`t think so

Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[1lastcast]

Stella`s , saltiga`s , megabass , blacksheep`s , exist`s , ize`s etc etc and the list goes on are all manufactured in japan arn`t they ?

[TuffTackle]

Stella`s , saltiga`s , megabass , blacksheep`s , exist`s , ize`s etc etc and the list goes on are all manufactured in japan arn`t they ?


No.
All made in China, maybe some are assembled in Japan.

Chinese will print anything on a box or product for their customers.

For example 75% of a commodores parts are made in china, assembled here, so they are made in Australia.

Because chinese labour is cheaper, same goes for any brand.

[TuffTackle]

MONOSTRETCHO (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=43393),
So there's no confusion
For SHIMANO and DAIWA "top shelf items"

They are the best by far, as they do their own strict quality design and controls.

But $1000 - $1500 is too much, they are not worth it.

For mid range reels and rods for every brand, they come from the same factories, so mid range stuff is not hiked up by the same stupid margins as high end.

So Given that the same contractor's make the same MID range stuff, you're better buying on price alone, whenshopping for mid range.

The High end contractors are seperate to mid range contractors.

Mid range is marked up at a lesser % rate than high end, so mid range in my opinion is a better buy (for your $)

For lesser known(advertised brands) like silstar for eg, they are priced fairly.

Only marked up 100% from factory price by the time they retail.

Not 1000% like top shelf stuff. (Yes x 10 by the time they retail), and the retailer is not making that much on them, the brand is.

[reidy]

To a certain extent yes. A good example is a mate of mine who will only use cheap JW combos.The funny thing is this bloke lands a couple of 10lb+ trout each year (arsy bugger) on his beloved combo.He just replaces it every two seasons,maybe not everyones cup of tea but it works for him.
Cheers
Reidy

[1lastcast]

I dont see how you can say that a saltiga dog fight at over $1000 is ( not worth it ) of course it is because it is the best wether or not you have one ,can afford one or want one it is hard to deny there quality.
Iunderstand what you are saying about the mark up but i think they are worth it
I also find it hard to believe that there is no reels made in japan i could be wrong but i thought they were.

[PNG1M]

Geeze guys,
There's some really useful infomation coming out here and I am finding out plenty of stuff I didn't realise before. There's obviously some pretty cluey members out there with sound expertise.

I have a good idea about the kind of equipment I like to use and how to get the best out of it but many other (behind the scene) things remained a mystery.

It's good to get some of that 'value added' info about differentiating between what is good tackle; what constitutes mid-range; what exactly is el-cheapo and supporting technical information to back it up. All that info about brands, products & manufacturing etc is a valuable contribution to the bigger picture.

The poll clearly indicates that buying the 'best you can afford' is the most popular choice. I tend to agree even though over the past three years I've accumulated more top shelf baitcasting gear (mostly because of fishing in png).

Reels: Millionnaire Blacksheep 300; Calcutta 400; Conquest 300; Penn 975; Curado DSV 300 plus a couple of lower priced mid-rangers (as stand-byes).

With the reels I definately noticed that the more costly ones functioned better & more consitently in the conditions - especially with heaps of casting & retrieving involved.

My favourite ended up being the Calcutta 400 (suped up Jap version with more BBs). Casts like a dream, easly to use, silky smooth drag & all the rest.

Rods: I've got rods ranging from Egrell; Loomis & T-curve to Shimano Raiders and a Penn Pinpoint. I have noticed less overall difference between those first three rods. I even preferred to use the T-curve over the Loomis as the T-curve had more of an 'Egrell' feel about it.

But there was a heaps of noticeable difference between the Pinpoint & the Egrell with the Egrell giving greater control over the fish. The Raiders were fun to use but again not quite in the category of the top three.

Out of the rods mentioned above, I'd have to say it was the 5' 8" 6-8kg T-curve that ended up as my preferred stick, matched to the Calcutta 400.

I haven't tested the Conquest 300 out enough yet to get an opinion, but I'm sure it will end up as a goodun'.

So, in view of the above - as preferred choice - I've gone for the option of a 'top shelf' reel ($400+) match to a mid-range priced rod ($200+)

Regarding the "buy the best you can afford" scenario, sometimes it will come down to buying what is the best thing you can find for the job inside your budget - even if you could 'afford' something more expensive.

If I go into a tackle shop with $300 to buy a rod and I see a you beaut model, with a great action for $290 and right next to it is a T-curve for $215 with a similar action and a good feel to it, then I most likely won't choose the $290 option, simply because I have enough money for it.

There are so many contributing factors, many of which have been covered in the previous threads. I'm sure more opinions & reasoning are yet to surface.

Anyway, it is great to hear some interesting feedback.
It helps to re-evaluate your own position and put more thought into the how/what/when/where/who/why/would've/could've/should've/didn't/might; of buying tackle.

[TuffTackle]

If I had a choice of

a 5.5mtr $40,000 boat package with $10,000 of reels and rods.

or a 6.2 mtr $48,000 boat package with $2000 of reels and rods.

I wouldn't hesitate and get the 6.2 package.

Lets face is rods get broken now matter how expensive, and reels get dropped or lost over the side.

I know of a guy who dives off Greencape every now and again, to retieve some nice outfits, that someone lost for what ever reason.

Ever been out is rough weather and looked up at the rocket launcher at the ramp, to notice there's something missing ?

[NAGG]

Those that think that there is little difference between reels clearly have not used / compared similar style reels side by side (High end Vs Cheaper)

Take my barra reels : Steez , Zillions , Chronarch SF.

all do the job .... all have caught good barra .... but there is a huge difference between the 3

The Steez is the most expensive ($700ish) : its considerably lighter , much smoother casting , can cast lighter weights , smooth drag , nice cast control ....... a dream to use all day

Zillions (I own 2) Mid to high priced ($450) : Heaviest in weight , smooth , casts big lures well but not light weights , heaviest drag , good cast control ..... robust reel ....... Happy enough to use it all day - but you know it

Chronarch SF Mid priced ($350) ..... Reasonably light , fair drag , not real smooth to wind , casts OK , So so cast control , ...... a back up reel.

Without a doubt ..... If I could own 3 Steez's I would - but since I couldn't 1 Steez & 2 Zillions will do ( 1 imported @ $A250 .... makes it value)

I think this is a fair comparison as each reel is interchanged with rods & fished in the same role! .........

Chris

[Morston]

########## has it right.

Most tackle 'manufacturer's' source their wares from South east Asia.

Many different brands will use the same blanks because they are 'sourced' from the same manufacturers. they are often sold from the factory for a few dollars each but will end up with whatever price tag the tackle firms choose to put on it.

A high price is no real guide to quality....there is some expensive crap around

[1lastcast]

Does el-cheapo do the job
yep in some cases it certainly does
But i have to say that extreme fishing requires extreme gear poppering for 50 lb gt`s , gamefishing for marlin and big yellowfin , 40kg yellowtail kingfish , 50kg amberjacks , these fish will make short work of anything lesser quality of a saltiga or stella or similar because of the long runs and heavy drags requires to stop them your cheapie you buy for $150.00 will not last the distance if you were fishing for these fish often .
I am happy to be proven wrong if someone wants me to blow up a reel for them .
I know it may sound a bit ignorant but i have had cheap and will not go back while my pocket can afford it

[NAGG]

Does el-cheapo do the job
yep in some cases it certainly does
But i have to say that extreme fishing requires extreme gear poppering for 50 lb gt`s , gamefishing for marlin and big yellowfin , 40kg yellowtail kingfish , 50kg amberjacks , these fish will make short work of anything lesser quality of a saltiga or stella or similar because of the long runs and heavy drags requires to stop them your cheapie you buy for $150.00 will not last the distance if you were fishing for these fish often .
I am happy to be proven wrong if someone wants me to blow up a reel for them .
I know it may sound a bit ignorant but i have had cheap and will not go back while my pocket can afford it

Mono ....... no need to justify the need to use quality gear on those babies ....... That is why charter boats run reels like internationals , tiagras , stellas & saltigas ........ No W_nk factor there.
Like any tackle though ...... you can catch great fish on very cheap gear - but try to continue it on a regular basis ........ CRUNCH , CRACK & BANG :'(

Chris

PS ..... It IMO boils down to the application & technique used ( I still use a 10 YO ugly stick & Baitrunner 4500 for snapper fishing with floaters - - - cannot fault it 8-) would I want to use it for plastics fishing for reds ...... No way::) )

[Horse]

How many of us chase fish that will blow away cheaper gear. I would put a TLD 25 or Penn Spinfisher 850 up against almost anything swimming around SE QLD waters.
A lot of charter boats don't use top end stuff and their middle of the road gear goes the distance

[NAGG]

How many of us chase fish that will blow away cheaper gear. I would put a TLD 25 or Penn Spinfisher 850 up against almost anything swimming around SE QLD waters.
A lot of charter boats don't use top end stuff and their middle of the road gear goes the distance


Horses for courses ..... so to speak ::)
middle of the road gear will take all commers ( hell how many big marlin were taken on star drag game reels):P .......... but you aint talking about el cheapo gear ( just cheaper).

Maybe I've picked well ...... but every game / sportfishing charter I've been on ran
Tiagras , Inters , Finnors down to TLDs (for the lighter work) Spinfishers were common place

Chris

[Noelm]

I guess in a funny sort of way, the newcomer and the department store shopper is where the Manufacturers/retailers make their money, there can be a good margin in some mid range gear, but at the top end, the buyer usualy knows what he/she is buying, has surfed the net endlessly, has shopped around by phone and screwed the price down to next to no margin (in comparison to the buy price) whereas a newbie will see the name (say) Shimano and imediately see quality, and buy the elcheapo combo unit that may have (say) a 30% margin or more, but a high ticket item cannot ever attract the same mark up, same goes for bicycles as well, a Kmart crap heap has "shimano" gears, it must be good, but in reality it is the lowest end of the range, but the "mum and dad" don't see it when Christmas shopping, does that make sense? so in essence, the cheap gear will catch Fish, and good Fish at that, but it probably will not be doing so in 5 years time, it will have been dumped and replaced 3 times by then.

[Noelm]

Just to put what I just posted in perspective, a long time ago I almost bought a Tackle Shop, the guy who owned it more or less specialised in "tourist" Prawn nets and lights, packets of hooks and sinkers and so on, I quizzed him about better quality items and his reply was simple " leave that to someone else, you have a $500 reel in stock, people come in and you talk to them for 1/2 an hour and they either go elsewhere or want you to price match, leaving $30 or so profit, for that same $500 you could by a stack of cheap tackle, the Tourist comes in, hands over some cash in 5 minutes, walks away happy, and on the $500 you could clear easy $500 to $750 profit, so why would you want to stock good gear?" kind of made sense to me, especially when his shop was almost forever full of customers and employed 3 full time staff!

[Jungle Jim]

I personally feel a lot of people are caught up in the marketing of the 'Name' product & spend way more than they need to just so they can be one of the 'gang' & say" i have a 4-6kg youbeaut floppycastor" too..."with matching reel" my 2cents..



Ain't that the truth.
Jeremy

That’s me for sure - unashamed to say so. i get sucked into the culture - marketing and branding...

Some guys are car guys.......some guys like flash watches. .....................Whatever blows your hair back!!!:o ....................

My car gets me where i want to go and my watch tells the time.

And yes a less expensive reel relative to one i have would do a similar (more likely indistinguishable) job to the flash stuff but hey i appreciate it for what it is AND what it does.

The engineering behind it all – the workmanship - the finish. Probably the same reason half the car buffs like their cars.


Do i need a reel that weighs 20 grams less than the cheaper model? -No way...i don’t even fish that often :-[

do those guys need HSV 317kw utes with 20inch rims.....or rolex’s....

yep there is definite fashion scene there...

“my mates are gonna think this is awesome” ..................just like a young lady i know with her handbags and shoes or a bloke i know with his KTM

but does the guy at the HSV dealership say "you’re just buying this so you can brag to your mates...."
who cares if he is only buying it coz he thinks brockey used to have one...

the bloke at the rolex agency doesn’t say “You’re only buying this because of the brand name.....” no sh!t Sherlock that’s why I’m here.

Fortunately we all have a choice... to buy whatever we want for whatever reason we want.

Jim

p.s Great read so far ..... mery xmas everyone i hope santa brings you whatever you have asked for be it flash or el cheapo :D

[PNG1M]

Real Life Example:

My mate is giving me the task of recommending a beach fishing outfit for him to buy but he reckons his budget is only $150 bucks.

I also want to buy myself (and my wife) a set up. My budget would be $500 for both.

So, for my mate do I hit K-mart and get him an el-cheapo, ready made combo for $150 that might or might not do the job or do I see if I can find 'the best quality he can afford"?

I'll go for option two:
I am going to recommend to him a Silstar Crystal Powertip 10' 6-10kg 2-pce rod for $82.00 from Mo Tackle matched to a PENN Captiva spinning reel for $75 also from Mo, so that equals $157 which I'm sure he can afford (yeh, I know...and the line etc etc so all up including terminals it'll push closer to $200) He can handle it!

ME: The best I can afford for my budget would be something like...
Silstar Crystal Blue Powertip 10' 6-10kg for $155 matched to a PENN Slammer for $169 (from Mo)

My wife can have the $82 model, like my mate's - matched up to a PENN 6500 Spin Fisher for a great 'on sale' price of $99 (too good..!)

So the "best we can afford" total for two set-ups would come to $505 (five bucks over budget). Plus another incidental hundred bucks or so for the line terminals.

So that's an example of buying the best you can afford. I could find cheaper but I most likely wouldn't be satisfied with the quality. At least the gear described above has a reasonable reputation plus there'd be a better warranty buying from a reputable tackle store like Mo!

Of course - re: top shelf gear - it would more then easy to spend $1000+ on a single beach fishing outfit if elite gear was what you were after.

Again, it depends on the purpose of why you are buying and the intended usage, as well as $$$.

[1lastcast]

A penn spinfisher when they were a new model years ago was one of the best spinning reels going it is only since the refinement of tackle in the form of stella`s and saltigas over the years that they became middle road gear and imo are still ok .

Remember the tss4 was also top shelf gear but even a cheapie these days seem to feel better than those cement mixers , so i guess the middle range gear is a lot better quality than years ago and value for $$$ is a lot better too .

but as we start tackling bigger fish on spin gear marlin ,dogtooth ,gt`s ,aj`s and the like we need those top end spin reels to get the job done !! BECAUSE YEARS AGO YOU WOULD HAVE NEEDED A QUALITY OVERHEAD TO TACKLE THEM !

[spears]

A picture can say a thousand words on a thousand dollar reel.

I'm still waiting for a mate to send me a picture of a stella with a bent reel foot.
Should have it soon to load up for viewing.

[PNG1M]

Crikey spearsy,
Is that photo of one of these things here below? The price of this one is $1150.00 it's close to the top end of top end of spinning reels. Surprising it busted like that - what does the add say about 'unyielding strength'. Oh well..just goes to show!

(Geeze, sorry I can't get the darn photo to paste in. At least the blurb is there - or if you click it you might get a pop up)


Van Staal
VS Series http://www.########.com.au/media/images/products/VS250S%20250.jpg (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=1500#)

You won't find weak die-cast aluminum or plastic in these reels. Van Staal premium spinning reels are expertly crafted from high-grade titanium and steel, the same materials used to build today's advanced aircraft. And this means unyielding strength and consistent peak performance each and every time you tackle the mighty ocean.The patented maintenance-free drag system features stainless steel ball bearings and an impenetrable gear case. The reel is sealed and water-tight to keep salt, sand and problems out, letting you fight the biggest fish in the harshest elements with no worries.
Experienced anglers know the challenge isn't hooking big fish, it's landing them. Enter the hardened stainless steel Main Gear, oversized so it will never slip or strip under pressure, providing you more fish-fighting torque per crank of the handle.

[Morston]

Never confuse advertising hype with reality;D

[spears]

PNG1M...they now have had to re design the reel to stop that happening any more.
And a diawa

[1lastcast]

Yep pictures can also be decieving without the story behind them the van staal is clearly misuse i would bet it has been dropped as where it is broken of would be the strongest part of the reel seat thats not from the reel being fished , the saltiga z30 i think it is with the side plate damage is also clearly from being dropped absolutely no pressure ever on that part of the reel when fishing , and the spool on the other z30 i think it is anyway who knows also not broken in a place where pressure would normaly be loaded i would think that the pressure would be a forward force on the centre of the spool not on the sides .

no reel is covered for the owner being a useless twit and dropping it .

no threadline reel is unbreakable and a locked up drag with your hand on the spool with 130lb braid ,something has to give doesn`t it normaly its the line though

to post pics like that to try to make the reel look bad is not very clever ausfishers are not that dumb mate::)

[TuffTackle]

Hi,
I think there's so many deciding factors when it comes to buying gear.

Rods are definately all about feel. And every one is different when it comes to what they prefer.
A $25 rod can feel better than a $300 rod depending on the type of fishing you are going to do, and what you're rigged up to catch.

In the 70's BMW couldn't sell cars in Australia, no one was interested.
They put the price up alot, and sales went through the roof.

With 8000 customers I can clearly say most people buy for the bling factor, 50% will buy on price, 20% will buy for fuction, 30% will only feel like they have done the right thing if they paid a high price tag.

As far as what's involved in the engineering and the cost difference between making a $1000 reel and a $50 reel it's no where near that much of a cost difference.

It's all about ##### size, Some young gun with a 5 min stamina buys a $1000 reel and a red Ferrari.
The guy with a nagging wife and 3 kids buys a $150 reel and a commodore wagon, he use to buy $1000 reels and red sportscars, but now he has matured, and become a little bit wiser.

Fact ( fishing gear with red sells better than any other colour to young guns)
Fact ( Darker less obvious colours sell more to guys in their 40's +)

So Does el-cheapo do the job..?

Ans: If you have a small willy it doesn't
If you have a big willy with a proven track record for success it does.

[oldboot]

Ahhh well here we are again.

There will always be those who have plenty of money to spend..;D ....I don't think that will ever be me:( .

I do not think I will ever have sufficient disposable income to afford spending $500 on one outfit.

That said I loathe and detest bottom price point carp.

I am a value concious shopper......I have been called a vulture to my face in a local tackle shop.

I don't mind if it isnt the latest, benn on the shelf a few years, or has the odd scratch.

I buy lower middle shelf stuff when it is reduced.
Am i fighting marlin or meter pluss barra......only in my dreams.

But due to my tight @#$& buying habits I can afford to own a good range of equipment that is approprite and specific for the task.
AND
If I break a rod or donate a lure to a snag... I don't cry tears of blood.

It comes down to what you can afford and what is appropriate.

cheers

[1lastcast]

########## ive heard some bull crap in my time but you take the cake .::)

[1lastcast]

Hi,
I think there's so many deciding factors when it comes to buying gear.

Rods are definately all about feel. And every one is different when it comes to what they prefer.
A $25 rod can feel better than a $300 rod depending on the type of fishing you are going to do, and what you're rigged up to catch.

In the 70's BMW couldn't sell cars in Australia, no one was interested.
They put the price up alot, and sales went through the roof.

With 8000 customers I can clearly say most people buy for the bling factor, 50% will buy on price, 20% will buy for fuction, 30% will only feel like they have done the right thing if they paid a high price tag.

As far as what's involved in the engineering and the cost difference between making a $1000 reel and a $50 reel it's no where near that much of a cost difference.

It's all about ##### size, Some young gun with a 5 min stamina buys a $1000 reel and a red Ferrari.
The guy with a nagging wife and 3 kids buys a $150 reel and a commodore wagon, he use to buy $1000 reels and red sportscars, but now he has matured, and become a little bit wiser.

Fact ( fishing gear with red sells better than any other colour to young guns)
Fact ( Darker less obvious colours sell more to guys in their 40's +)

So Does el-cheapo do the job..?

Ans: If you have a small willy it doesn't
If you have a big willy with a proven track record for success it does.

fair dinkum mate who do you think you are coming on here insulting us saying if you buy expensive gear you have a small willy / dont you have some warranty work to do on that cheap crap (s@#t) you sell >:(

[banshee]

............As far as what's involved in the engineering and the cost difference between making a $1000 reel and a $50 reel it's no where near that much of a cost difference...............

Depends I suppose on weather your the company who has sunk the money into the research and develpement to see what materials/engineering will cope or the company who is following the leader/leaders.
As for the rest of the post....I agree with Monostretcho.

[oldboot]

I was wondering how long this would take to get heated;D .


There is some truth in what tuftackle says...... but only some.

I have handled and looked at( apart) some of the top line reels and there is no comparison with the lowere order stuff.... but do they catch more fish:-/ .

I've heard this " they all come out of the same factory" BS before.....in a variety of markets.

The chineese and the tiawanese before them and the japanese before them have always been very good at both coppying and working to specification
Much of what we buy comes out of the same or similar factories yes... but the truth is far more complicated than that.
I know a number of blokes who import different things from asia and china....and believe me you need to know what you are doing. some of these yellow fellows do very nice work, others make carp, others still will give you any work standard you specify.

I have seen a cheap reel with nylon bushes, that could just as easily have been stanless ball bearings.

OH and price and margin.......in many cases manufacture cost and sale cost are not very closely related.....there will be huge margins in some fishing items.

As for increasing the price to get more sales.......yep lots of people do it.
There are a geat many people who believe you get what you pay for and it is simple as that.....in many markets cheep items will not sell... bump up the price and they walk out the door.

cheers

[Morston]

Here you are

This is where much of the dealing is done....have a look through this site:

http://importer.alibaba.com/buyeroffers/Fishing_Tackle.html

If you like you can have it made with your own brand name on it....provided you are prepared to buy hundreds.:o

[the baker]

I cant afford to buy cheap sh#t I keep busting it .

Dave

[TuffTackle]

MONOSTRETCHO (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=43393), who said I was talking about you ?

If you know where you stand on the issue why be so defensive ?

Anyway, my point is price does not mean perfection.

Also If we are talking stand up, (8kg - 12kg of drag absolute max)
You don't need to spend a $1000 to get to that.

If you're talking chairs and harnesses, yes you need to spend the money, even the 30,50,80,130W copies are expensive (same factory price as brand names)

But if someone can sell a copy for $350 and make a living, then $1800 is too much, the components come from the same factories (fact)

As far as (alot of stuff being made in the same factories) I know it's true.

Ask yourself how come I can sell a BayPac rod for $300 with $600 of components on it ? and make a living.

The wholesale price of 2 Baypac butts is more than the cost of my whole rod, from the top 4 rod manufacturers, who incidently make brand rods that are also top shelf price, and I can sell uglystics for $10 and make a living, from the same factory.

I think the point of the original question is Does el-cheapo do the job ?

For 8kg of drag required for stand up (YES)
For stand up rods (YES) as any rod can be broken no matter what price.

Is a Copy Penn international the same quality as a Penn international (YES) they use the same components, and are assembled by the same labourers.

Is a single brand name bent butt on it's own worth $300 (NO)
Is a rod with a blank from the same factory as Shimano or alot of other brands with a lesser known name with $600 (perceived components on it) worth $300
Of course it is.

So is it possible to spend alot less and still have quality, of course it is.

Is it possible to spend less and buy crap, of course it is.

Should you speak without knowledge, No you shouldn't.

[TuffTackle]

And a word of knowledge in addition.

Never try to import a BRAND name product.

Customs has a list of protected brands, that if imported by anyone other than the distributor, those goods are to be destoyed as "fakes"

You pay for brand protection, this stops protected brands from having their markets exploited by the import and re-sale at a much lower price.

So for offers on Alibaba and made in china etc, for brands, you CANNOT import them without distributor rights, they might not even make it out of the country sending them.

For the 100's of sets of calaway golf clubs desrtoyed by Aust customs each year as "fakes" they are genuine, just imported by the wrong guy.

Non commercial quantities sent Via EMS courier (post) can get through, if customs doesn't open the package for inspection.

[spears]

DIAWA...
so what happened is this. i added a small bead of grease to the screw hole. done that a thousand times with other reels. just as i gave the screw driver that last turn, i heard a "snap." i was horrified to see that the frame had cracked at the screw hole. um, $200 worth of horrified, i might add. that's the cost of a new frame. i spoke to another guy that does alot of reel work and he says he had the same thing happen, only he used corrosion x on the screw thread.

so what i think happened is this. the tolerances on the threads of the screw holes are so tight that there's no room for air, excess grease or excess oil to squeeze out when tightening down the screws. this causes a crack at this one weak spot of our $200 frame. a guy sent this reel for me to service and there's no way that it's going back broken. i just have to eat this one.

VAN STAAL..
Just pushing it to the limit !!!!

SALTIGA
this guy has had this happen twice..he no longer uses saltiga

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=J7xAm4l6pVI
Not even the expensive stuff is bullet proof..



Most people think this way..
Common sense says If I spend more on a reel or rod I should get better quality and last longer..True ?

So lets buy a reel for $450 in a 4000-5000 size..
Now go and buy another reel 4000-5000 size for $900 like a -saltiga spin or stella

Now pull these reels apart and lay them out side by side.
Try and show me where’s the extra $450 in parts in value.
You can't.

[gaintsquid]

You can either spend a little alot, or alot a little if your serious about your fishing and do it alot and flog your gear IMO you will enjoy yourself more, have less troubles and probly end up saving money if you buy quality expensive gear for the job. But if your a laid back just go fishing to get out of the house and relax and hope to jag something as a bonus, then i reckon cheap gear does the job just fine.

[PNG1M]

QUOTE from Old Boot:
There are a geat many people who believe you get what you pay for and it is simple as that.....in many markets cheep items will not sell... bump up the price and they walk out the door.

cheers[/quote]

Aint that the truth..!!

Are we talking about if el-cheapo can do the job? Ok, yeh in some cases maybe but depending on the application.

A ten year old rod n reel that you buy for fifteen bucks from a garage sale will probably catch you a few small bream off the back jetty - if that's what you're intending to do. But it most likely won't land you that 90cm flathead that just happened to be passing by and was interested in your prawn.

Back to Old Boots quote: I mentioned before that I was recommending a beach fishing outfit for my mate whose budget was $150 bucks. I found a Shakespeare Ugly Stick Saphire Plus 10' beach rod for $39.00 that was probably more than adequate for my mates 'one off' fishing sorties.

But did I suggest he buy it? NO, mainly because I thought it was too cheap.
If they had cranked the price up to $75 maybe I would've been interested.

So instead, I suggested the 10' Silstar Crystal Powertip for $82 bucks as the extra cost seemed to add up to better quality....and maybe that's true as both rods had different specs.

But ultimately, the $39 bit put me off and I labelled the rod (sight unseen) as just a bit too el-cheapo (and therefore probably el-tacko or el-crappo)!!

At twice the price, the Powertip (again sight unseen) seemed to justify the extra bucks by being lighter and with the graphite glass mix and a great advertising blurb etc. Hmmm, have I done the right thing by my mate!?

What does he know about rod specs? Absolutely nought...he just wants a cheap set-up so he can join us in some fishing. The rod'll probably spend most of its future in his garage collecting dust - and I'm sure a $39 rod is up to that.

Hmmm...if elcheapo's not a problem to him (and ignorance is bliss) maybe the $39 model would be better. At least then he could afford a Penn Spinfisher at $99 to come in under his $150 budget.

Anyway, I think Old Boot is right. People sometimes feel comfortable paying more than the 'rock bottom' price as it kind of satisfies the psychological 'comfort zone' by leading you to think you bought better quality...and hence avoided being ripped off by buying el-cheapo "cr#p"


Or...maybe I can suggest to my mate that he buys a Daiwa Saltiga Balistic beach rod for $699.00 for his one-off trips (with no guarantee that it'll catch him fish) and watch his jaw hit the ground. He could probably buy three years supply of fillets for that price!

I could try to convince him that he'll enjoy his fishing more if he paid that much for the rod. He could chuck a $60 reel on it to compensate!?

NB: No disrespect intended to those avid beach fishing enthusiasts out there who do have the top shelf gear. Just look at my baitcasting tackle - geeze - I cringe sometimes. I've even got a Daiwa Millionnaire 253CVZ that I bought 6 months ago and its still in the box. I know all about it!!!

[Morston]

Stella Artois Lager used to be advertised in the UK with the slogan:

"Reassuringly expensive"...........and it was expensive.

It was also awful stuff (depending on your taste) but the advert worked.

There is something 'reassuring' about buying expensive stuff but it is as much a psychological phenomenon as a reality and, as such, possibly makes some fishermen more effective and helps them enjoy their fishing more.

It also appeals to the 'poseur' in us.....it looks 'good'.

None of that necessarily makes it better quality.

[Jungle Jim]

Non commercial quantities sent Via EMS courier (post) can get through, if customs doesn't open the package for inspection.

Not sure whether i’d agree entirely with the above....

I’ve bought plenty of stuff from overseas including US Nz and Japan had customs and quarantine go through a few parcels- always arrive in one piece. Quarantine will slip a little quarantine matters brochure in there to let you know what’s happening. Never had a problem.

Mind you i’m buying one item at a time. Bit hard for customs to drop the old “parallel import” on a one item import

Will continue to buy from what is essentially a global market....

JIM

[TuffTackle]

Hi spears,

so what i think happened is this. The tolerances on the threads of the screw holes are so tight that there's no room for air, excess grease or excess oil to squeeze out when tightening down the screws. This causes a crack at this one weak spot of our $200 frame. A guy sent this reel for me to service and there's no way that it's going back broken. I just have to eat this one.

What I found, and what I think the problem is with the Alloy housing cracking is it's probably not 6061 Aluminium.

To get certain colours in annodising aluminium you can only use certain alloys.
6061 (marine grade) is very expensive, so the chances of the manufacturer using an alloy specificly to get the right colour, rather than the correct engineering grade for the appplication is more likely.
Without doing a spectrographic analysis on the broken material, I can't say for sure, but It would seem to me that the female alloy thread has expanded (closed in size) due to corrosion (electrolysis).

I was quite amazed that a very small current generated by spinning bearings, could create electrolysis between indifferent materials in direct contact on fishing reels, but I have no doubts it does, form inhouse tests.

On a $5,000,000 pharmacuetical machine the threads would be re-tapped before assemmbly after service, because reliability is required to run that machine 24/7.
And shortcuts by not re-tapping tight threads, could cause downtime.

So I would suggest that when pulling down Aluminium reels, it would be a cheap investment to re-tap the threads and use new screws where possible.

Asia uses mainly metric fine pitches.

If the body alloy was 6061, which would have been the correct alloy for the body it probably wouldn't have happened, 6061 is amazingly resistant to electrolysis and incredibly strong, (doesn't become subject to material weakening after being exposed to an anode/cathode environment)

Simon

[Jungle Jim]

Now pull these reels apart and lay them out side by side.
Try and show me where’s the extra $450 in parts in value.
You can't.


Lets not forget that the value of a product is more than the sum of it’s parts.

Good will, reputation, warranties, after market service, exclusivity, resale value....

These may or may not be as important to a customer or as irrelevant - as the drag rating or country of manufacture.

But these are some of the factors the make up the value of a product rather than just the cost of it's components.

Jim

[TuffTackle]

Jungle Jim (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=49510),
Customs is run by humans, if you where importing on a regular basis, eventually you would get flagged for review.
If it was apparent or suspected you were a commercial operation, importing protected brands customs can pretty much do what they want.
But not all brands have brand protection.

There's no publicly available list for protected brands, so with the savings there is also some risk.
If I imported a box of 20 Saltiga's the chance of losing them is very high, if I imported a sample saltiga, it would be OK, If I imported 1 every week, it would get flagged for review.

[Noelm]

the "being made in the same factory" is completely irrelevant, two products can certainly can be made in the same factory, and some even use the same parts, but to say a $500 item, and a $100 item is the same because it came from the same factory is rubbish, way back when I was involved in the Electrical Industry, we could get Batteries made in the same Factory as Eveready, but at a quarter of the price, they even looked like Eveready, but when cut open, only about a third of the case was actualy filled with product, the rest was packed with Saw dust to make up the size, but they were still made in the same factory with the same workers, but the product was sh!t they would be flat as a fart in 5 minutes, but geees they were cheap! you could even get them cheaper if you wanted, and branded as Eveready, the factory did not care one bit, so as far as Fishing Reels and Rods go, they may well be made in the same factory as Shimano and even look like a Shimano (or whatever brand you like) and the internal parts will LOOK the same, but mostly the Metals are about as good as Chrome Plated Licorice, and life span is very short. Now is a $1000 Reel 4 times better than a $250 Reel? that's anyones guess, some say yes without doubt, some say maybe (me) some say no way, it's your choice and your cash, but is a $1000 Reel better than a Chinese copy of the same Reel?? YES, YES, YES!!!

[steveyb]

Hey ##########

You have forgotten to mention Banax who make all their own reels in their own factories. Quality is through the roof and they engineer many reels and parts for the big "reel manufacturers"

Cheers and Merry Christmas to all.

[Jungle Jim]

Jungle Jim (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=49510),
Customs is run by humans, if you where importing on a regular basis, eventually you would get flagged for review.
If it was apparent or suspected you were a commercial operation, importing protected brands customs can pretty much do what they want.
But not all brands have brand protection.

There's no publicly available list for protected brands, so with the savings there is also some risk.
If I imported a box of 20 Saltiga's the chance of losing them is very high, if I imported a sample saltiga, it would be OK, If I imported 1 every week, it would get flagged for review.


That probably sums it up nicely.

Thanks

*********************


Spears

looking at that photo of the van staal in my uneducated opinion i would agree that “pushing it to the limit” would just about be spot on too.

maybe past the limit though...... oooooppssss:-[

Effectively there is a fixed point = Reel seat

and a force (albeit an unknown amount) being applied at the opposite end of a lever = Reel stem

The longer the reel stem -the more pressure that is placed on it.


Screw the drag up -apply more force -multiplied by he lever effect and Pop goes the vanstaal :-[

I’m no engineer or reel tech for that matter so please educate me if possible

JIM

[NAGG]

We need to be a little careful ..... when talking about manufacturing sites & componentry.
Yes the likes of Daiwa & Shimano use toll manufacturers in taiwan , china , thailand & Korea to build certain products ....... & yes there are probably copies being produced under some other name......... But I can tell you now - they would not be built to the same tolerances or use identical parts:-/
Daiwa for instance build their high end reels in Japan ....... The airmetal bodies / parts are made in Japan , digigear is made in Japan ...... under strict QC / tolerances - These & other components are then sent to assembly plants in other Asian countries ....... where they are assembled under strict guidelines.
Now ..... this is where the big difference lies....... Quality parts & design.

A couple years back ..... I listened to talk about buying reels that were manufactured in the same plants as other top brands - I bought a Maple Cypher 2000 spin reel ( to be used by mates / family etc) ..... Now the bloke told me (i've forgotten) what reels were made in the same Chinese plant ..... sounded good - Shimano Bearings 7 & 1 roller ..... sounded good > The reel felt nice & smooth - Spare spool - looked like a reasonable buy for $100 discounted from $180...... Sounds great 5 year warranty ...... Even better :P
now ....... the reel felt OK the couple of times I used it for bream SP fishing ..... Its only been used 4 or 5 times - but after a torrid bass session at Cania the gears jam every now & then ( loose tolerances) the drag is still reasonably smooth - the handle has a couple of mm of play - After looking at it right now there is a little corrosion on the shaft ..... & on a couple of screws
Was this reel a good buy ...... I think not (for the limited use) - If I used this reel like I do my Certate or Miss problematic Stella ..... The reel would be stuffed.
If it was my only reel - I would have replaced it (I couldn't be bothered with the warranty) ........ I guess I'm spoilt by the better quality reels!

chris

[finding_time]

Now pull these reels apart and lay them out side by side.
Try and show me where’s the extra $450 in parts in value.
You can't.







So a reels value is only seen in the quality of it's parts ?:o :o :o That is a totally simplistic view Spears you obviously thought about it for a loooooong time::) ::)

Mate i work in the dental industry and the majority of my time is spent with implant dentistry. Now the componentry for one complete implant from the leading company is $1800.00! What would this cost the company to make, maybe $30.00 or a tad under 2% of the products value! So where does the company spend it's money, well R&D is the biggy and marketing but the companys R&D represents the products true value! Other companys make implants and some for alot less but they dont spend as much on R&D and a much higher percentage of there's fail early so where's there value?

Back to fishing;) Stellars will fail , Van Stals will fail, and so will saltiga's but at what rate?

If you took 100 stellas, 100 saltiga's, 100 van stalls and 100 of your $450.00 reels and put them through an equal amount of very tough punishment, eg high drag over extended periods i think you would find that the better quality reels would have a lower breakage rate!!!

Now i'm sure some stellas, saltig's and van stalls will fail!;) And i'm equally sure some of those 450 dollar reels will come through unscathed but overall the percentages will be much less. And thats what it all about PERCENTAGES!!!!!!!!!;) This is why your pictures are worthless! Of course the expensive reels break but so do the $450 ones and more often i would guess( where are your pictures of these BTW, didn't suit your arguement hey?:o )

Ian

Ps here's a pic of an Aj caught on a 3500 certate, reels still in perfect condition after almost 1hr on it;) ;D

[Morston]

What I find curious, about all this talk about the cost to produce a reel, is why the same product can be sold in the US, Australia and the UK or Europe at hugely different prices.

If these reels cost so much to produce how come they are so much cheaper in the US?

I have a number of spinning rods, bought in the UK for around the $100 mark. These rods have fuji sic rings, fuji components and are as good as any I have seen over here. These were, no doubt, manufactured in the same place as most others but under brand names that most on here may not recognse but which are well respected in Europe.

I have also a number of Stradic reels bought in the US at prices which would make you weep. Strangely, when I bought my first pair of Stradics (in a Kmart in Oregon) I compared them to a pair of similar sized Zebco reels (not sure if Zebco were ever marketed in Australia). At the time the Zebco reels were more expensive and, I was told, better quality. I bought the Shimanos because I had always associated Zebco with the cheap end of the market in the UK.

Tackle marketeers indeed move in mysterious ways.

[Noelm]

Zebco was indeed in Aus, and as in the UK I think only crap models were bought in, they may have made good quality as well, but I don't think we ever saw them, they had a fling with those dinky little closed face reels, most crapped out while still quite new, and were dumped, never to see the light of day again.

[Jungle Jim]

I believe difference in the cost relative to different locations can be at least 90% put down to volumes sold in that market.

As example –
The trout fly fishing market in Nz would be considerably larger than the fly fishing market in Brisbane. The retailers order more (fly fishing related) stock get it a better price, sell more stock - so require less margin per unit to cover costs.

Don’t even start on the us market. ..... ... .

I would hazard a guess and say the other 10% comes down to the cost of goods sold.
Cost of staff in those shops, cost to ship it there from point of manufacture , associated taxes etc.

But by far the volume of stock sold influences the price to per unit.
The underlining factor is the more i sell the less margin i need per unit to cover costs.

I heard once:
The easiest way to make a million dollars is to take a dollar off a million people.



Jim

[Morston]

Zebco was indeed in Aus, and as in the UK I think only crap models were bought in, they may have made good quality as well, but I don't think we ever saw them, they had a fling with those dinky little closed face reels, most crapped out while still quite new, and were dumped, never to see the light of day again.

The Zebco reels I handled in Oregon were in a completely different league to the ones sold in the UK although I believe Zebco also sold tackle under the brand name 'Browning' (same as the gun manufacturer) in the UK as well.....not sure if that brand still exists where fishing gear is concerned.

[Morston]

I believe difference in the cost relative to different locations can be at least 90% put down to volumes sold in that market

The bigger dealers can often sell stuff cheaper than the smaller dealers can buy it for due to bulk discounting.

[TuffTackle]

Here's some more info, to fuel to the fire.

http://www.jarden.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=72395&p=home

Fishing brands they own. + all the subbrands under each one listed, Berkely - Tica, Juro etc etc.

Fishing:
Abu Garcia® (http://www.abugarcia.com/), All Star Rods® (http://www.allstarrods.com/), Berkley® (http://www.berkley-fishing.com/), Fenwick® (http://www.fenwickfishing.com/), Gulp!® (http://www.berkley-fishing.com/), Johnson® (http://www.johnsonfishing.com/), JRC Products® (http://www.jrcproducts.com/), Mitchell® (http://www.fishmitchell.com/), Penn® (http://www.pennfishing.com/), Pflueger® (http://www.pfluegerfishing.com/), Shakespeare® (http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/), Spiderwire® (http://www.spiderwire.com/), Stren® (http://www.stren.com/), Trilene® (http://www.berkley-fishing.com/), Ugly Stick® (http://www.shakespeare-fishing.com/), and XTools® (http://www.xtools.us/).
But I totally agree with finding_time (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=35071), but at what cost is reasonable ?

For 4 x Penn (copies) is 1 x penn W 80 really worth 4 x the price, if it is 4 x more reliable (which I doubt)
For myself I'd rely on 4 x Penn 80w copies than one Penn brand 80w

I pull these things apart all the time, and the tolerances are identical, occasionaly there might be a 'copy' with an assembly fault, or a bur not removed on a critical part, but I'm capable of seeing it before it becomes an issue, but I'm talking about a fault rate of 1 in 500, which under stricter quality guidelines for the name brand might have been picked up before release, or it may reduce fault rate to 1 in 1000 not, but not 1 in 2000.

Even then the odds are better stacked on 4 reels against 1.

[1lastcast]

MONOSTRETCHO (http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/member.php?u=43393), who said I was talking about you ?

(not only me mate all ausfishers who buy top end gear)

If you know where you stand on the issue why be so defensive ?

(because you are starting to s#@t me )

Anyway, my point is price does not mean perfection.

Also If we are talking stand up, (8kg - 12kg of drag absolute max)
You don't need to spend a $1000 to get to that.

If you're talking chairs and harnesses, yes you need to spend the money, even the 30,50,80,130W copies are expensive (same factory price as brand names)

But if someone can sell a copy for $350 and make a living, then $1800 is too much, the components come from the same factories (fact)

As far as (alot of stuff being made in the same factories) I know it's true.

Ask yourself how come I can sell a BayPac rod for $300 with $600 of components on it ? and make a living.

((i can buy aftco rollers, aftco alloy uni butt , calstar blank all the threads and hypalon to build the best 24kg rod for $600 all top end gear , your telling porkies arnt you)))

The wholesale price of 2 Baypac butts is more than the cost of my whole rod, from the top 4 rod manufacturers, who incidently make brand rods that are also top shelf price, and I can sell uglystics for $10 and make a living, from the same factory.

I think the point of the original question is Does el-cheapo do the job ?

For 8kg of drag required for stand up (YES)
For stand up rods (YES) as any rod can be broken no matter what price.

Is a Copy Penn international the same quality as a Penn international (YES) they use the same components, and are assembled by the same labourers.

Is a single brand name bent butt on it's own worth $300 (NO)
Is a rod with a blank from the same factory as Shimano or alot of other brands with a lesser known name with $600 (perceived components on it) worth $300
Of course it is.

So is it possible to spend alot less and still have quality, of course it is.

Is it possible to spend less and buy crap, of course it is.

((finaly some truth))

Should you speak without knowledge, No you shouldn't.

((sorry master i will now go and sit in the corner))

My point is this one , ebay is flooded with cheap absolute garbage fishing rods and reels and this stuff is crap ! many years ago when i was buying stuff off ebay i was having problems with gear exploding and many people i know will also steer clear of this stuff , it is the unexperienced or newbie fisho that is buying most of this stuff and to start out it is probably suitable

As an example rods - the reel seats coming loose ( not glued properly ), inserts coming out of the guide frames , blanks breaking under load , rollers that are crap and coroding / rusting and when pulling them down to clean them having to replace bolts after only a few weeks use , rods not back boned properly and rolling out of your hand while fighting a fish on 37 kg , single bound guides that do not even cover the guide foot properly and the list goes on .

As an example reels - the bail arms breaking , line rollers siezed , bearings ( cheap chinese ones ) coroding and rusting after a couple of trips , anodizing fading , lettering wearing of , handles breaking , anti reverse mechanisms failing , drags being smoked and buggered after 1 fish becoming jerky and unable to be fished reel foots breaking and the list goes on .

one thing i know is that by getting top dollar / quality gear none of the above is likely to occur not to say it will not happen just less likely to occur .

I am fussy about my fishing tackle and will not buy cheap stuff just to line the pocket of some bloke who says its the same as top end stuff .
Because i know its not just the parts used but also the way its put together as well .

DO YOU SELL SHIMANO , DAIWA , PENN , VAN STAAL , DUEL , ACCURATE, MEGABASS , FISHERMAN , SEED , LOOMIS , SEEKER , CAPE FEAR , ST CROIX OR ANY TOP END STUFF ???.

I don`t know the answer but i think i have worked that one out for myself , i think not .

what i think is you are trying to justify the quality of what you are retailing .

I wonder what your opinion would be if you where selling top end brand name stuff im sure you would not be saying its not worth it then would you ?

[finding_time]

Morston

Cost for all products has little to do with actual manufactoring costs but what the market is prepared to pay for that item!

Getting back to my industry again those $1800 dollars implant components i was refering to in my earlier post sell in the usa for around $900 and in India for $140. They sell them so cheeply in India because if they didn't they simply wouldn't sell them at all! It's what the market can afford! In the U.S they are used to paying less than we are for most items be those food stuffs, white goods ,cars , boat etc you'll find that there all around half what we pay for goods , but the hourly rate of the average worker is also around half of what we earn, it's all relative. Believe it or not but there is a scale called the Big Mac scale and many companys and ecomomists bass the rate of there goods in a country against the big mac rate. Eg
say a Big mac in the US is $1.50 and there product sells there for $1500 and a big mac sells here for $3.00 the company will sell there product here for $3000 The reason is Mac Donalds is such a large company and does such high standards of market research and the bigMac is the same in both country's they just piggy back on there research!


Goggle bigmac scale for some interesting reading or click link

http://www.galatime.com/2007/02/20/economist-big-mac-index-india-missing/

Ian

[Morston]

I am not talking about cheap stuff sold on ebay.

I know much more about the European market than the Australian one but I am talking about, for example, rods sold under different brand names using EXACTLY the same blank. Some are heavily marketed and hyped using such means as product placement (well known angling writers plugging them in magazines etc.), others sold with a less high profile.

The difference in price can be several hundred dollars.

The same thing....not copies....just a different name.

[spears]

It’s all going to depend on what type of fish are in the area and what you’re going to target.

When we talking about spinning reels that will work to the limit and chasing tuna and shark having well known brands like stella and dogfight it gives the angler more assuring chance of landing the fish.

I would love to have one of each,but not at those asking prices.And prices will be up next year.
So what about other reels that people have used and landed these freight trains.

Just in a couple brands come into mind:
Shimano Fireblood (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=3060)
Shimano Baitrunner (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=93)
Shimano Saragosa (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=3786)
Shimano Spheros FB (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=3558)
Shimano Twin Power FC (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=3940)
Daiwa Catalina (http://www.########.com.au/index.cfm?pr=product&product_id=3273)
Banax GT 500
With some of these if you can upgrade the drag or have to add a bearing or two.
Even the okuma Vsystem have bought in some big fish.

########## are having a go as a challenge and with model changes and improvements over time just like the other well known brands they will get better.

In the U.S. for anglers that can’t afford a thousand dollar reels the quantum cabo PT is the nearest challenge to a stella or dogfight at one third the price.

Regardless what is said here people will buy to a spending dollar point.

As for the el cheapo reel $79.95 it is only designed for the Christmas break angler.
But some here will see a $400 reel as a cheap product.

If you’re out there every week fishing hard then spending money on decent gear is a must and everybody gets a choice to how much $.

IMO the shimano stradic is the best value for money which can be used in a number of situations from fishing light,med, to reasonable heavy fish and affordable.


Am I right in everything I write and the way I think..?
It’s all debatable..

[Morston]

Morston

Cost for all products has little to do with actual manufactoring costs but what the market is prepared to pay for that item!

Getting back to my industry again those $1800 dollars implant components i was refering to in my earlier post sell in the usa for around $900 and in India for $140. They sell them so cheeply in India because if they didn't they simply wouldn't sell them at all! It's what the market can afford! In the U.S they are used to paying less than we are for most items be those food stuffs, white goods ,cars , boat etc you'll find that there all around half what we pay for goods , but the hourly rate of the average worker is also around half of what we earn, it's all relative. Believe it or not but there is a scale called the Big Mac scale and many companys and ecomomists bass the rate of there goods in a country against the big mac rate. Eg
say a Big mac in the US is $1.50 and there product sells there for $1500 and a big mac sells here for $3.00 the company will sell there product here for $3000 The reason is Mac Donalds is such a large company and does such high standards of market research and the bigMac is the same in both country's they just piggy back on there research!

Ian

I am aware of that Ian....I know about the Big Mac index;D

It does, however, stuff the argument that high prices are all down to high costs.

There is also a lot of truth in the point I made earlier, at least to fishermen

"reassuringly expensive"

As far as the UK is concerned...wages are pretty similar to Australia but top end tackle is much cheaper IME.....maybe down to bigger markets....but the market for lure fishing tackle is pretty small in the UK.


Cahal

[1lastcast]

thats a little different then if i was looking at buying a shimano fire blood rod and i found the exact rod renamed for $100 less then i would buy it , but if i found a cheap imitation with lesser quality components then i would leave it alone .

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

crikey... how did we get from the original question to a pi**ing contest about expensive reels & who knows the most about their manufacture quality of components.. it has nothing to do with the question.

This whole thread has turned into one of those that pay the big $$s trying to justify their decision to do so, it's not nessecary. Just buy the best you can afford..

I will agree that the top line reels probably/should have better quality materials & better tolerances, making them a lot better reel. I have seen cheap gear that if you get one that comes off the line early, they can be fantastic, even if the materials quality is ordinary. as time goes on & they push all machinery to the limit to get maximum profit, when it should be re tooled. They become eventually sloppy from overuse & next to useless, so it can be the luck of the draw.
that's 4 cents worth now..

[Morston]

thats a little different then if i was looking at buying a shimano fire blood rod and i found the exact rod renamed for $100 less then i would buy it , but if i found a cheap imitation with lesser quality components then i would leave it alone .

The only way you would know that though is to have the information and that can be hard to come by......but it is all out there;)

[Morston]

This whole thread has turned into one of those that pay the big $$s trying to justify their decision to do so, it's not nessecary. Just buy the best you can afford..



Not necessarily. My point is that you can buy the top quality but don't always have to pay the top price.

I will spend what is necessary but will not do so if I can find the same thing cheaper. This is far more the case with Rods than reels, but also with other items.

For instance....there are only a handful of line manufacturers in the world but how many different brands are there?

For me it is a matter of principle;D

Cahal

[Jungle Jim]

crikey... how did we get from the original question to a pi**ing contest about expensive reels & who knows the most about their manufacture quality of components.. it has nothing to do with the question. .

Hang on wasn’t you that baited everyone with your comment below.


I personally feel a lot of people are caught up in the marketing of the 'Name' product & spend way more than they need to just so they can be one of the 'gang' & say" i have a 4-6kg youbeaut floppycastor" too..."with matching reel" my 2cents..

Bloody good read and had me LOL at times though.

There have been some interesting points brought up I personally have learnt a bit about tackle and personalities.

JIm

[finding_time]

For 4 x Penn (copies) is 1 x penn W 80 really worth 4 x the price, if it is 4 x more reliable (which I doubt)
For myself I'd rely on 4 x Penn 80w copies than one Penn brand 80w

I .

Ok so i'm out at the shelf for the 4th time in the last 2 weeks i've finally got a handle on where the fish are holding and have tagged 2 small blues on say 110kg and one a bit bigger at say 175 kg but today i've decided to work wider and see what happens!;) The spreads been out 45min and by my estimations the bites about to happen when the Bart's Big Breakfast in blue over black on the short corner goes off and i mean really goes off!!!!!:o The blue is that bloody big it can only get it's shoulders out of the water and it's more than a little unhappy that it's tasted the 14/0 owners!:P You clear the spread and think to your self that the 1400 litres of fuel you have burned over the last 4 trips has finally paid dividends:D Your clipped into the Black magic stand-up harness and the skipper got the the boat humming backwards but line still screaming off the reel like it's been attached to the back of a semitrailer on the M1 but you couldn't be happier. Not even the waves comming over the transom and half filling the cockpit and saturating you can dampen your your spirts!!! This is what it's all about!:D :D :D :D :D :D :D Then your thoughts turn to the reel:-X instead of going with a known brand that has done the job many many times before you decided to spend 1/4 the amount on the reels so you could have more fuel money:o Will the reel go the distance? Will it take the sunset setting if need be ? Will it sieze up on sunset? This is not how it's supposed to be, i should be enjoying the fight not worried about the bloody reel!!!:o Why did i do it , i know the big reels are expensive , but so is everything else in the sport of heavy tackle! Shite i hope the reel makes it, man i'm a idiot! I hope the crew don't give me to much crap if the reel fails? 2 hours later we tag a 350kg blue but i cant remember to much about the fight i was so worried about the reel the whole time, as soon as i get home i'm putting them on ebay, i never want to worry like that again it really spoilt a great day!!!;)

Ian

[TuffTackle]

I am fussy about my fishing tackle and will not buy cheap stuff just to line the pocket of some bloke who says its the same as top end stuff .
Because i know its not just the parts used but also the way its put together as well .

DO YOU SELL SHIMANO , DAIWA , PENN , VAN STAAL , DUEL , ACCURATE, MEGABASS , FISHERMAN , SEED , LOOMIS , SEEKER , CAPE FEAR , ST CROIX OR ANY TOP END STUFF ???.

I don`t know the answer but i think i have worked that one out for myself , i think not .

what i think is you are trying to justify the quality of what you are retailing .

I wonder what your opinion would be if you where selling top end brand name stuff im sure you would not be saying its not worth it then would you ?


I am not interested in trying to sell to the market that buys top shelf brand items, "If you're in the market for a Ferrari, your're not going to consider a WRX"

I sell enough of my own brand, to make a good honest living, to the same customers over and over, and their mates.
Sure some have had a faulty product, same chances as buying a big brand, and sure you bought cheap gear on ebay and got stung with rubbish made by back yarders, like the LD 9000 etc, made by Golden.
But For a similar price to the cheap stuff on ebay ( my stuff is a little higher in price) I get a wholesale price paid for, no checks in the mail excuses, like wholesaling, which I do, but limit to locals I can hassle if I need to chase my money.
Incase you hadn't noticed most of my stuff is totally different to the cheap ebay stuff.
Checkout SPRO, and look at their products , then tell me again, it's cheap crap.

Am I trying to convince you to buy off me ? NO.

Have I provided some of my hard earned knowledge to help anyone answer the question for themselves (is El-cheapo going to do the job)

Take it or leave it, but don't take it personally because you got ripped when you bought the cheapest you could buy probably from Bluewater.
And target me because I sell on ebay also, when you've never used my rods or reels.

Simon

[Morston]

2 hours later we tag a 350kg blue but i cant remember to much about the fight i was so worried about the reel the whole time,

One of the most cynical forms of marketing is to raise doubts, in the consumer's minds, about the reliability of the competitors products.

I have seen this this used so many times in the highly 'tackle fixated' world of European Carp fishing where there is a market far bigger than the whole Australian tackle market.

It is not usually done by direct advertising (except in the US) but by 'product placement' in the fishing magazines etc. by sponsored anglers under the guise of fishing articles, videos etc.

[Jungle Jim]

Very well said - finding time

So i fly to nz to chase trout.....drive 1300k round trip to the barra lake.....make those trips off shore.....................
only to be let down by a poor decision made in a tackle shop 6 months ago.

The are 2 things i have 100% control over when i go fishing.

The quality of gear i use and the quality of the knots i tie.

Jim

[Morston]

So i fly to nz to chase trout.....

I have never paid more than $200 for a fly rod or $120 for a fly reel and have caught thousands of trout over the years and never been let down by my tackle.

And I can cast far better than most despite my cheap (but good quality) gear.

The fly fishing market is probably the most over hyped of all.

[finding_time]

One of the most cynical forms of marketing is to raise doubts, in the consumer's minds, about the reliability of the competitors products.

I have seen this this used so many times in the highly 'tackle fixated' world of European Carp fishing where there is a market far bigger than the whole Australian tackle market.

It is not usually done by direct advertising (except in the US) but by 'product placement' in the fishing magazines etc. by sponsored anglers under the guise of fishing articles, videos etc.


I totally agree!!!! And you will notice that in my mock artical that the cheap reel caught the fish!;) But when your on a fish it's amazing what goes through you mind, how are the crimps on the lure, the leader was alittle scrubed, i hope i did that aussie plait tight enough! The last thing you want on your mind is more doubts! And of course manufactors of well know products that have earned respect in a industry will play on that against new players! It's up to the new players in the market to prove there stuff is good and will be up to the task!

I run Alutecnos reels and when i was looking at new reels i hadn't heard of them but after a bit of research and seeing one pulled apart ( I think you should see a reel in pieces , specially if your buying 5 at once ) i dont think there is a finer game reel being made anywhere in the world!!! The Italians can engineer;) I have never seen on of ##########s reels i'm sure i will one day and they'll probably be pretty good but it will take time to earn respect!

ian

[Jungle Jim]

I have never paid more than $200 for a fly rod or $120 for a fly reel and have caught thousands of trout over the years and never been let down by my tackle.

And I can cast far better than most despite my cheap (but good quality) gear.

The fly fishing market is probably the most over hyped of all.

It probably is.

I run Sage rods. Am i a sucker for buying them? -probably. Do i care? -nup.

As i mentioned earlier i appreciate it for more than just it’s casting ability.

I like the warranty. I like the rod tubes that come with them i like the build quality and yes i even like the brand.

Most of all i like the fact that when i have flown to nz driven hours into the Jungle (lewis pass for those in the know) hiked for hours sometimes over night to get to the most least pressured bit of water i can find- i have confidence that i have given myself the best possible chance to do what i came here for.

Next time i'm 15 foot above the river on a bluff less than 12 inches wide casting to a trout the size of a salmon, into a genuine 15+knot nor-westor..... I don’t think i will care whether i could have bought a cheaper rod than the one in my hand.

Mind you casting-to and landing are 2 different things and all the confidence in the world won’t catch me that fish. :D

Jim

[Morston]

It probably is.

I run Sage rods. Am i a sucker for buying them? -probably. Do i care? -nup.

As i mentioned earlier i appreciate it for more than just it’s casting ability.

I like the warranty. I like the rod tubes that come with them i like the build quality and yes i even like the brand.


Totally agree with you.

I am as much a 'tackle tart' as the next man. I own about 50 rods of various kinds and I like handling them....some are hardly used....many I made myself.

My fly rods I have had for years and know them inside out.......when I started over 30 years ago there was a lot less choice.

I don't know about here but in the UK you would be hard pressed to find a bad fly rod nowadays....or any bad rod for that matter.

The cheapo stuff you find in the shops here just would not sell over there.

When I say cheap I mean value for money....not always the same thing.

Cahal

[finding_time]

It probably is.

.

Next time i'm 15 foot above the river on a bluff less than 12 inches wide casting to a trout the size of a salmon, into a genuine 15+knot nor-westor..... I don’t think i will care whether i could have bought a cheaper rod than the one in my hand.

:D

Jim

Then you slip and your hand goes out to break the fall , unfortunately it's the hand holding the Sage:o And it breaks :'( Now your left holding the two pieces thinking to yourself what a clever bastard you are for buying the Sage, loomis, etc .. There are other reasons for buying great gear;) My brother is a very keen trout fisherman ( is building a lodge in NZ and will be guiding full time) It doesn't matter how good your felt boots are river rocks are very slipery and he has broken his 4 weight sage 4 times , love that expediter!!!!!

[Morston]

I totally agree!!!! And you will notice that in my mock artical that the cheap reel caught the fish!;) But when your on a fish it's amazing what goes through you mind, how are the crimps on the lure, the leader was alittle scrubed, i hope i did that aussie plait tight enough! The last thing you want on your mind is more doubts! And of course manufactors of well know products that have earned respect in a industry will play on that against new players! It's up to the new players in the market to prove there stuff is good and will be up to the task!

I run Alutecnos reels and when i was looking at new reels i hadn't heard of them but after a bit of research and seeing one pulled apart ( I think you should see a reel in pieces , specially if your buying 5 at once ) i dont think there is a finer game reel being made anywhere in the world!!! The Italians can engineer;) I have never seen on of ##########s reels i'm sure i will one day and they'll probably be pretty good but it will take time to earn respect!

ian

Anglers are usually let down by their own mistakes much more than by their tackle.

It is very difficult for 'new' tackle companies to break into any market.

Fishermen are quite conservative by nature which is why most of us have 'favourite' brands athough others may find our choice illogical.

On to another point.....much of the Cheapo tackle I have seen on sale here simple would not sell in the UK or the US. 'Cheap' tackle in the US or UK is a much higher quality than the cheap tackle here.
They are different markets though.

Cahal

[finding_time]

Anglers are usually let down by their own mistakes much more than by their tackle.

Cahal

It much easier to live with your own mistakes than do everything right and have the gear brought let you down , that really hurts and is maybe your biggest mistake!

As far as new tackle breaking into the market goes, fishermen are pretty smart and thanks to resorces like the net good news spreads quickly! If the product is up to the task , word will get out !!! Conversely if it's crap word will also get out!;)

[Morston]

It much easier to live with your own mistakes than do everything right and have the gear brought let you down , that really hurts and is maybe you biggest mistake!

as far as new tackle breaking into the market goes, fishermen are pretty smart and thanks to resorces like the net good news spreads quickly! If the product is up to the task , word will get out !!! Conversely if it's crap word will also get out!;)

true

The internet has made life much easier for those who choose to use it wisely.

[oldboot]

On the subject of castings or mouldings failing when screws are inserted.

If the female thread is blind (has a bottom) and we are talknig about a fine thread.....applying a lubricant may cause a hydraulic failure... where the lubricant causes the thread to seal and occupy the space at the bottom of the threaded hole

So as the screw is tightened the liquid at the bottom of the hole is preasurised with no where to go.. so the casting fractures.

This is a real consideration even in large bolts such as head studs on engines.....either the hole is drilled thru or space is left at the bottom.

It is common in some mechanical assembly to tighten bolts to a particular level then re torque to a final level to account for compresion in the bottom of blind holes.

cheers

[PNG1M]

A mate of mine bought some of that cheap "saratoga" stuff from Ebay a while back - a couple of baitcast rods of different sizes & a reel.

He took it on one of our barra/bass trips in PNG to test it out.

He persevered over the weekend by having the Ebay gear in the boat as a second set with the 'standby' lure attached. His number one set-up was a Loomis matched to a TE Calcutta 400.

Every time he picked up the el-cheapo he couldn't wait to put it back down again. The difference in feel & performance when compared to the top end stuff was off the chalk & cheese scale.

I'm not sure if he actually landed fish with the sartoga set-up but from memory he did get a few. It's the psychology that sets in too, that makes a difference to enjoying (or not) that memorable moment.

You get a solid fish on and you know you're trying to haul it in with tacky (unproven) tackle and you start thinking about why bought the cheap stuff in the first place rather tha focusing on the present & savouring the fact that you've hooked a good fish to land.

Using the top shelf gear (or at least half decent quality) you can enjoy the fishing and feel psychologically comfortable by knowing your gear is sound.

Anyway, my mate's summary was that even though the Ebay stuff was el-cheapo it did work and it did catch fish. But it wasn't very enjoyable to use.

After that trip he put the cheapie stuff in the back room & that's where it stayed. He said it was just an experiment anyhow. Then he got online and ordered another Loomis from a tackle shop in Cairns. They offered him a good deal so I bought one too.

For barra & bass we generally opt for the best equipment we can afford (or more accurately - can't afford - but do somehow..!) Top end stuff is preferred for fishing in png as the conditions & fish can be tough going. The good gear is generally longer lasting & consistently reliable as long as you look after it.

But then, on another trip a 'one-off' weekend angler I know bought himself a 2-piece general purpose 7' rod & reel combo (egg-beater) from K-mart as he didn't want to spend a fortune on a single trip.

He had great fun and caught a steady flow of fish (bass & barra to 8kg). He enjoyed using his new gear and kept reminding us of how much it cost him and where he bought it from. He was in his element..!

In return we desperately tried to outperform him with our top dollar gear - which we did - but possibly too because we had more experience than him with that kind of fishing & knew the area. Who knows?

So...each to their own I guess!!

[oldboot]

In all seriousness the bloke who buys a $1000 plus outfit is not likly to want to use an ebay special regardless.
by the same token the bloke who spends under $200 on a "seriuos outfit" is never likly to have the money to buy a loomis and an up market shimano reel.

Even more he is unlikly to spend the $3000 to $7500 on a single fishing trip. that will require heavy tackle catching meter pluss anything.

A more realistic comparison is in the lighter tackle. say a typical 10Lb outfit.

you could buy a cheap packaged outfit for $50 and find everything about it was cheap and in truth poor value for money.

or you could be a vulture and spend $150 on a decent basic brand name rod and reel and still have plenty of cash left over for a reel of respectable mono line and a bit of terminal tackle.....particularly if there are deals to be had... and that will fish quite nicely

or you could spend $450 on a current model midrange rod and reel and a roll of braid and a few bits......will it catch more fish than #2 ?

or if you are a rich Ba$#&1d, you can cough up the $500 odd for a loomis or whatever and an other $500 for a fancy reel to match, then another $100 for some top shelf braid, $30 for fancy leader, then there are the lures only the best current brand names at $25 plus each and you have to have the full range of types, sizes and colours, so another $1000 ( thats only 40 lures). We have yet to buy a tackle box or any designer clothing yet... no doubt this outfit will feel wonderfull and you will look great.......
But hell that would buy me nice used boat with a low milage outboard


The big secret I think is buying wisely and never pay full retail.....in this fishing lark just about everything gets reduced sometime.

There has to be huge margins in some sections of fishing tackle for the sellers to withstand the very solid reductions that are often seen.......weather the small reatilers ever seen these margins is doubtfull, but the bigger ones seem to get them from the wholesalers.

cheers

[straddie]

So what you guys are saying is if I am targeting marlin, black bass, xos sambos or dog tooth tuna, then my $10 kmart whiting rod and 5 inch alvey just won't be up to the task?

How about when I am targeting winter whiting what type of loomis and $1000 reel would you recommend I use to tame these mighty beasts :D

It is a bit hard to tell with some which of the posts were serious and which were outright jokes but I laughed at most of them anyways in this thread. :D

[oldboot]

I cant tell you the appropriate loomis rod but a Shimano twinpower 2500FC would cost you arround $500 if you were copping full retail.......a truly beautifull reel... just silky........Would I buy one..........NBW.

It most certainly would be no difficulty spending $1500 on a whiting outfit.

I'll stick with my small alvies......the old series with the bakerlite spools;D .
I just pucked up anotherone....a 45C1... cost me $25 inc postage....paid a little too much and it needs a little work........give me 2 hours with it and it will be sweeet;D .

cheers

[spears]

OK so we have this dilemma of cheap won’t cut it.

The $900 - $1200 reels are just too over priced for a lot of people.
Why not go in between on say a 4000 or 4500 size reel in a stella FD $600 with quality braid and make it an all rounder for medium to heavy fishing.
Then you will have a smooth strong reel and reliable.
This will vary for some regions around aust.
Just a thought..

Next idea…
You can always buy a good quality reel second hand and stay within a certain budget

[4x4frog]

Replied, top shelf is the only way to go.
Last year I bought 2 el-cheapo reels of flea-bay from an aussie supplier. They are rubbish to put it mildly. I had in the past always bought the best gear, having a Zebco Quantum Spin reel and Iron baitcaster. I thought this time I would go cheap as the kids won't fish too often. Big mistake, they hated the reels and almost refuse to go out again with those reels. I'll probably get a couple of quality s/h Shimano or Diawas for them and be done at that but I'd never again be tempeted by cheap gear.

[dogsbody]

Does el-cheapo do the job..? IMO it can at certain times. Eg when i went to the Swains last year i needed a heavy rod for 50lb braid so i bought a 20 dollar rod off fee bay. My reasons are that I do bugger all outside fishing so I saw no need to spend the $$ on a good rod. The rod survived and did the job asked of it.

Of course there are times that you will need better gear like if your doing the Marlin thing that's a no brainer. For the average fisher all they need is fair priced gear $150-$200(rod and reel) should last a good while if looked after. I've got a baitcaster (Crestfire reel Cantana rod) cost $80 about 15years ago and still going today.

If you want to go all out that's fine i can understand the feeling of owning something nice as it's all about enjoying the feeling of fishing,, not just catching fish that's the iceing on the cake.

I feel there is no need for all the chest beating about what's better. You buy what you want and stand by your decision good or bad and it don't matter a toss what other people think.


Dave

[GrahameA]

but generally, is it better to buy 'cheap' or not?

An opinion.

What is cheap??

I have a range of fishing gear and in the reel area they range from those that were low priced to those that were relatively expensive.

Of all the reels I own there are a few that stand out.

ABU 6500C - 1974
ABU 7000 - 1975
DAM 600 - 1980 (or thereabouts)

All of the above reels are still in use and have a lot of hours of use. All have had the bearings (bushes) in them replaced - the old ones wore out - and the 6500 is on its third set. All have had the drag washers replaced with ones of oil soaked split chrome leather. Like all my fishing gear they have all been maintained on a regular basis.

So they have been a 30 plus year investment and have definitely been worth the money initially invested in them. However, if they had not been maintained they would now be in a garbage tin.

However, it is my opinion that they were better made than the current equivalents.

At the other end of the price range I have a little Okuma that I purchased when they first came out. It is only used on 2kg line and it is going as good as the day it was purchased - it has had the drag washers replaced though, they were replaced even before it was first used.

My opinion:

- buy the gear you want or can afford and maintain it. Corrosion is the big killer.
- research your product well
- do not believe the hype put out by the manufacturers - any of them.
- maintain your gear
- wash your reels after every fishing trip
- if people are paying the prices being asked for some of the top range reels then they have more money than sense.

[4x4frog]

Graeme, you make good points in your closing arguement. I think I would change my vote to buy the best as i agree with your points and I didn't spend top dollar for some of my gear but all but the last reels mentioned have been higher end stuff. The Zebcoa nd Iron were pretty top end when bought 20 years ago and I doubt the cheap stuff offered these days will alst anywhere near that long, even if maintained well. Time will tell though and if in 15 years time we are still around posting on ausfish, it'sd be interesting to revisit this thread and see the results then.;D

[ifishcq1]

As Spears said you can always buy a good quality reel second hand and stay within a certain budget

There is a huge market in used gear and if you know what you want it is easy to get a bargain

Over the last few years I have slowly got a fair kit together and every thing I have catches fish
as for using $1500 outfits I reckon we should have a competition with 3 different ranges of gear... cheap, medium and rich
the results should be fair and I know from experience that the winner will more likely to come from the medium priced outfits
That should sort the fishers from the posers

Cheers
SL

[banshee]

............... I know from experience that the winner will more likely to come from the medium priced outfits
That should sort the fishers from the posers.......

Cheers
SL





A statement that is derived from a considerable lack of the forementioned 'experience'.......in my opinion.

[ifishcq1]

A statement that is derived from a considerable lack of the forementioned 'experience'.......in my opinion.



what would you even begin to know about my experience

if you think I am wrong you prove me wrong

well banshee you will never know if you don't put up or shut up

I have runs on the board to backup anything I say from 40+ years in the fishing industry including pro reef and mackerel, won and placed in all divisions in a major barra comp and held several state and national barra records and still hold the current broad barred or grey mackeral record that still is the biggest ever weighed in on any size tackle and a heap more all on medium priced gear and reasonable priced tackle

now smart .... your turn

[banshee]

How many $1500 outfits do you own?

[ifishcq1]

How many $1500 outfits do you own?

banshee

This rings to the sounds of nothing

I do have a couple of expensive outfits but the main every day gear I use is medium priced gear

I don't know you but I would bet you work in a tackle shop and have very little history of actually catching a fish but probably your gear looks the best

you probably even wear the latest name stuff so that you look the prettiest while dangling on your newest shimano product the rep told you would be the best

the biggest baddest fish you ever landed was most likely a bass you probably live in nsw and travel big distances to try and prove you are the man


You have nothing mate

[banshee]

Yeah you got me,I do work in a tackle shop and there are a lot of blokes that can fish me under the table (every day I meet the worlds greatest fisherman and sometimes the scales and guts are so thick on the other side of the counter that it's to slipery to stand up) but unfortunately I have to buy my gear and I'll post a couple of pics for you to show you my trendy gear....please note that I realy go all out in the finest Columbia when I mix it with the bass scene

[spears]

Since the poll brings in 3 levels of:

Cheap…$
Best you can afford ..???...$
Top shelf (& top dollar)… $

With so many combinations of rods and reels at various prices.
Every one has their own opinion of what prices each level above would be at $ value.

So how do I read these 3 options.
Cheap combo… $150
Best I can afford ..is something that is wide open for that answer
Top shelf… I see as $2200.00
But for what type of fish are we going for.? To warrant a price.

Now I’m starting to get confused trying to make sense

[banshee]

Since the poll brings in 3 levels of:

Cheap…$
Best you can afford ..???...$
Top shelf (& top dollar)… $

With so many combinations of rods and reels at various prices.
Every one has their own opinion of what prices each level above would be at $ value.

So how do I read these 3 options.
Cheap combo… $150
Best I can afford ..is something that is wide open for that answer
Top shelf… I see as $2200.00
But for what type of fish are we going for.? To warrant a price.

Now I’m starting to get confused trying to make sense

There is only one answer to the question put foreward in the poll,and that is 'B' ,there is absolutely no point in being pissed off or scoffing at someone else for their choice of gear.It's a fact of life that one mans trash will be another mans treasure I think it's best that people understand this and concentrate on enjoying their own game (with the best gear they can afford).

[PNG1M]

Hmmm yeah...this thread is kind of becoming a bit pear shaped.
I almost wasn't game to submit another post because...(baah, not really so here goes):

Yesterday I bought 2 beach fishing set-ups (for myself & for 'She who must be obeyed')

For Me: Wilson 10ft (Kilwell blank) beach rod 6-10kg for $120.00 + Penn Slammer 560 $179 = Total $299.00

For She who must be obeyed: Silstar 10ft Powertip $88.00 + Penn Spinfisher 6500 for $99.00 = Total $187.00

Combined Total: $486.00

WHY did I buy those particular mix n match outfits? For the simple reason that my maximum allocated budget was $500 bucks for both set-ups (excluding line & terminals etc)

I shopped around and bought the best gear I could afford based on:
a) the type of fishing we'd be doing & likely frequency of use
b) my expectations of the gear - ie for recreational fishing but confident it'd do the job
c) choosing the best gear I could identify based on our respective angling needs

Since my fishing is a tad more serious than my wife's and I'll be spending more time fishing, my equipment cost more than hers as I considered it to be a bit more specific to what I was after (when considering the budget)

I could have got myself a Spinfisher 7500 for $99.00 but decided to upgrade to the Slammer as I had heard some good Ausfishers reports about the Slammers.
As the combined total still fell under the $500 allocation I didn't mind spending the extra (plus a voice in my head told me I had to get one)

I don't consider the gear I bought to be el-cheapo as if I wanted to go "bottom dollar" just for the sake of it I could've got two rod n reel combos for less than $100 each (and would've tried not to end up standing next to an accomplished fisho with decent equipment when using it) I can just imagine the cheesy grins!

For a truly top shelf beach set up you could pay up to or more than $1000 for a reel and well over $500 for a rod. I suspect that only an extremely dedicated & committed enthusiast would pay that much.

But what 'top dollar & top shelf' means to me might be different to what others think top shelf is.

I thought I had some pretty top shelf baitcasting gear eg Black Sheep 300 and Calcutta TE Conquest 300 reels (among others) at $400+ each and $250 - $300 rods to match them. But to some anglers, that isn't top dollar nor top shelf - it's more upper mid-range - but it's still darn close to top shelf for me.

I reckon we best keep it to "each to his own" although I do believe that in general if you buy cheap you'll end up buying again...and again...(it's happened to me before with sunnies and even bloody vacuum cleaners) so why not buy better quality in the first place!

In the poll I voted 'buy the best gear you can afford' or more accurately 'the best quality gear you can find, that suits your purpose and that fits within your budget' - as long as you can get to wet a line and enjoy using it - that's the main thing isn't it?

Now...where's that frothy chop gone!?

[spears]

This is my experience owning a so called top end reel (saltiga).

A saltiga 4500 is classed as a good reel by most people who know the brand and this reel can take quite a hammering with good quality drag.
It’s heavy but solid,not the smoothest of reels when turning the handle due to tight tolerance build.
This size holds a reasonable amount of line especially spooling it with braid.

So after owning it for a while I decided to sell it..this was about 14 months ago.
I list it in a fishing forum for $400 which I thought it should go within a few hours which included a few pictures..
The anti reverse bearing was getting a little noisy but still held it’s ground.

MO_tack currently sell these today for $975 plus $12 for posting.
2-3 days pass and nothing so I join another forum and list it their for the same price,after a few days nothing.
Ended up in 3 forums and after 3-4 weeks it’s sold and posted interstate.

Now who would have ever thought of a reel which gets mentioned in so many forums for it’s overall features and quality that I couldn’t move it quickly.
I expected to get 2-3 replies within a day fighting over it at that price and after the first week I even considered it as a lemon for resale value.

Which brings me back to the current situation re-quality reels to buy and use.

Would you have jumped at that reel at less than half price..?
Hundreds looked at it on line but know one came running at me with cash in their hand.
Which only leaves me thinking how many $1000 reels go flying out the tackle stores cause you need to own the best for what ever reason.

Now just think about what you’ve just read.
A bargain One of the worlds best and most recognized brand names couldn’t get sold for weeks with a $600 saving.

A conclusion which is my own opinion only is that the regular (once a week) fisherman would mostly buy reels up to the medium price range and not very many at all go to the top end stuff.

[Bruce_Bogtrotter]

This is my experience owning a so called top end reel (saltiga).

A saltiga 4500 is classed as a good reel by most people who know the brand and this reel can take quite a hammering with good quality drag.
It’s heavy but solid,not the smoothest of reels when turning the handle due to tight tolerance build.
This size holds a reasonable amount of line especially spooling it with braid.

So after owning it for a while I decided to sell it..this was about 14 months ago.
I list it in a fishing forum for $400 which I thought it should go within a few hours which included a few pictures..
The anti reverse bearing was getting a little noisy but still held it’s ground.

MO_tack currently sell these today for $975 plus $12 for posting.
2-3 days pass and nothing so I join another forum and list it their for the same price,after a few days nothing.
Ended up in 3 forums and after 3-4 weeks it’s sold and posted interstate.

Now who would have ever thought of a reel which gets mentioned in so many forums for it’s overall features and quality that I couldn’t move it quickly.
I expected to get 2-3 replies within a day fighting over it at that price and after the first week I even considered it as a lemon for resale value.

Which brings me back to the current situation re-quality reels to buy and use.

Would you have jumped at that reel at less than half price..?
Hundreds looked at it on line but know one came running at me with cash in their hand.
Which only leaves me thinking how many $1000 reels go flying out the tackle stores cause you need to own the best for what ever reason.

Now just think about what you’ve just read.
A bargain One of the worlds best and most recognized brand names couldn’t get sold for weeks with a $600 saving.

A conclusion which is my own opinion only is that the regular (once a week) fisherman would mostly buy reels up to the medium price range and not very many at all go to the top end stuff.


personally, as it wasn't that old, i'd be suspicious that it had something wrong with it & you were just trying to unload it asap..thats just me..maybe others think that way as well..

[spears]

Not too sure if they were as I didn’t even get asked one question in regards of a faulty reel.
I had pick up was available as an option.

[reidy]

I have never paid more than $200 for a fly rod or $120 for a fly reel and have caught thousands of trout over the years and never been let down by my tackle.

And I can cast far better than most despite my cheap (but good quality) gear.

The fly fishing market is probably the most over hyped of all.
Isn't that to true:-/
Reidy

[squizzytaylor]

This is a very interesting thread and an excellent insight into the psychy of the Australian fisho.
A few here have been quick to dismiss the Loomis/Stella level products as overkill and perhaps "image" products. I ask how many of you though have ever fished with this level product ?
My rod and reel collection is around 90% Shimano (reels are all Symetre and Stradic, rods are a mixture but none are worth more than $200) which are far from the top of the range, however I have been lucky enough in the past to have used friends Loomis, Egrell etc rods and top shelf reels and in all honesty I can say that the control you have over a fish and the overall confidence increase with the better rods and reels is far superior to the gear I generally use, can I justify $600 for a rod and $800 for a reel?....no way, but good luck to the guys that can and I do honestly believe that most of them reap the benefits of the upmarket gear.
For me its all about value for money and finding that sweet spot between price and quality however I would love to have an arsenal of top shelf gear.

Cheers
Geoff

[JimInCairns]

I'm a great believer in 'You gets what you pays for'!

With very few exceptions, the better-quality rods and reels end up saving you money in the long run.
Shimano Stellas, Daiwa Saltigas and the newer S-Extreme will last for a lifetime with a little TLC and regular maintenance.

[Chamelion]

My outfits

Starlo stix Squidgy Spin M 7ft 2-4kg + Diawa Exceler 1500 + 6lb braid (4lb fireline destined for the spare spool) - Lure flicking and small bait fishing

Penn Slammer 7ft 6-10kg graphite composite + Fin-Nor 3500~ size + 12lb mono - Alternative reel Penn Captiva CV6000 + 20lb mono - Larger dead bait and live baiting

Jarvis Walker RedBone 7ft 3-6kg + Penn Captiva CV2000 + 10lb braid - jack of all (river) trades

Jarvis Walker RedBone 8ft 3-6kg + Alvey 625BB + 25lb mono - Rediculous outfit that exists as a dodgy spare only

Shimano Bullwhip Fightn' Rod pistol grip baitcaster - No reel as yet

Jarvis Walker Tailor Taker 13ft surf rod - Penn Captiva CV6000 or Alvey 625BB as reel options

Jarvis Walker 7ft Supertip - Was used as a light combo with the Penn CV2000, second eye from the tip is damaged but still usable, so it has been handed down to my daughter - Shakespear old as the hills dodgy as all buggery reel for the moment

-------------------------------------------------------

As you can see I have survived the past 13 years fishing with the lowest of low end gear. I have only just recently taken the plunge with the Penn Captivas and only just this last week opted for the higher quality of the Starlo Stix and the Daiwa Exceler... Will I go more expensive again? Sure, just as soon as I can afford to do so. In saying that, I can't immagine ever feeling justified in spending more than $600 for a combo.

[BigE]

Interesting read some real passion out there about how we do what we enjoy. I still think the determining factor is skill ( or luck ) I have seen blokes lose reasonable fish on some of the best gear avaibible (and endure some heartbreaking sledging as a result) and seen a little girl (under 12) land a meter plus barra on a ring caster while breaking almost every rule in the angling book. however if you spend some time in the company of truely consistent fisherman ( the guys who seem to be able pull fish even on the worst days) you will notice "they use what they have TO THEIR BEST ADVANTAGE" gear may or may not make a difference, but skill neally always does.
I'll take skill or even good advice over equipment every time.

BigE

[spears]

Here’s a reel I imported from the U.S. even though this is the cheaper version compared to there up market range in Quantum cabo or boca models.
AS guys over there say it isn’t a stella but it isn’t far off at one third the price.
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''
The one I wanted to bring to attention is there small reel called pulse 10-40 sizes which is in the budget line.
I have the pulse 30.
Quantum have got a good reputation through out the united states.
Have a read of the link below and get an idea of what can be purchased at one third of the price compared to a shimano or diawa smaller reels.
You can get these delivered in 6 days for $65.

http://www.illinoiswaters.net/heartland/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6689

[1lastcast]

I dont think i am ready to sell all my stellas yet and buy this reel

IMHO you cannot put that reel anywhere near the same class as a stells or saltiga but like i say its only my opinion .

I have an idea , why dont shimano just re brand these and sell them as stellas if they are that good

I think we all know why !! ;)

And thats why they are $65.00

food for thought

[spears]

I dont think i am ready to sell all my stellas yet and buy this reel

IMHO you cannot put that reel anywhere near the same class as a stells or saltiga but like i say its only my opinion .

I have an idea , why dont shimano just re brand these and sell them as stellas if they are that good

I think we all know why !! ;)

And thats why they are $65.00

food for thought
I think you have misread in what i am saying or comparing.
The pulse 30 has nothing to do with a comparison..... stella or saltiga

[1lastcast]

Spears i am giving myself several good upercuts as i type this i will be sure to read properly before commenting next time .

As a budget entry level reel i think its pretty good value for $$ and probably better quality than other similar priced reels .

regards MONOSTRETCHO

[spears]

Spears i am giving myself several good upercuts as i type this i will be sure to read properly before commenting next time .

As a budget entry level reel i think its pretty good value for $$ and probably better quality than other similar priced reels .

regards MONOSTRETCHO
i am giving myself several good upercuts as i type this
Can you put it on video and share it with us:D

[NAGG]

Interesting read some real passion out there about how we do what we enjoy. I still think the determining factor is skill ( or luck ) I have seen blokes lose reasonable fish on some of the best gear avaibible (and endure some heartbreaking sledging as a result) and seen a little girl (under 12) land a meter plus barra on a ring caster while breaking almost every rule in the angling book. however if you spend some time in the company of truely consistent fisherman ( the guys who seem to be able pull fish even on the worst days) you will notice "they use what they have TO THEIR BEST ADVANTAGE" gear may or may not make a difference, but skill neally always does.
I'll take skill or even good advice over equipment every time.

BigE

No doubt that skill or luck has more to do with catching fish than the gear itself ....... more than a few decent marlin have been landed on cheapish spin gear .
OK ... now having said that you wont find me picking up my Maple CY 2000 .... ahead of my Stella or Certate ...... sure it is a capable reel with good specs - but if feels like a coffee grinder by comparison , Its heavier , the drag is stuttery & there is play in the handle .................................... & its hardly been used - however compare it to a ABU FX2000 .... that I also bought while away without any gear ......... & the Maple is a dream
Now .... someone who knew no better would probably say that the ABU is OK ........ Till they hook a fish & try to adjust the drag ::) ......... Yes all 4 reels will catch fish ........ but 2 of the 4 make the whole process of lure casting an enjoyable one ......... That has been mentioned before .... lure casting requires better gear

Chris

[JimInCairns]

Well, it finally arrived, guys; my new toy that I'll be taking to Mexico next month. Nope, it's not an el cheapo, or something that I'd have any doubts about using.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3299/3216919131_092176a948.jpg?v=0

The new Saltiga 6500Z S-Extreme, with the matching rod. Wish me luck!

Jim.




The collection...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/99015340@N00/sets/72157605701920719/

[1lastcast]

Good luck Jim , i like your weapon of choice you can stop some monsters with that , what are you chasing over there ?

[JimInCairns]

Good luck Jim , i like your weapon of choice you can stop some monsters with that , what are you chasing over there ?


I'm hoping to pick up a sail and mahi-mahi, and all the usual species. I've taken a couple of days charter out of Cozumel, and the reports from there have been very favourable. I will, of course, add pics of any decent catches when I get back!

[Chamelion]

My outfits

Starlo stix Squidgy Spin M 7ft 2-4kg + Diawa Exceler 1500 + 6lb braid (4lb fireline destined for the spare spool) - Lure flicking and small bait fishing

Penn Slammer 7ft 6-10kg graphite composite + Fin-Nor 3500~ size + 12lb mono - Alternative reel Penn Captiva CV6000 + 20lb mono - Larger dead bait and live baiting

Jarvis Walker RedBone 7ft 3-6kg + Penn Captiva CV2000 + 10lb braid - jack of all (river) trades

Jarvis Walker RedBone 8ft 3-6kg + Alvey 625BB + 25lb mono - Rediculous outfit that exists as a dodgy spare only

Shimano Bullwhip Fightn' Rod pistol grip baitcaster - No reel as yet

Jarvis Walker Tailor Taker 13ft surf rod - Penn Captiva CV6000 or Alvey 625BB as reel options

Jarvis Walker 7ft Supertip - Was used as a light combo with the Penn CV2000, second eye from the tip is damaged but still usable, so it has been handed down to my daughter - Shakespear old as the hills dodgy as all buggery reel for the moment

-------------------------------------------------------

As you can see I have survived the past 13 years fishing with the lowest of low end gear. I have only just recently taken the plunge with the Penn Captivas and only just this last week opted for the higher quality of the Starlo Stix and the Daiwa Exceler... Will I go more expensive again? Sure, just as soon as I can afford to do so. In saying that, I can't immagine ever feeling justified in spending more than $600 for a combo.

That changed yesterday...

Starlo stix Squidgy Spin M 7ft 2-4kg + Diawa Exceler 1500 + 6lb braid (10lb braid on the spare spool)

Penn Slammer 7ft 6-10kg graphite composite + Pflueger Medalist 6040 + considering 10lb mono and 15lb mono on the spools - Alternative reel Penn Captiva CV6000 + 20lb mono

Jarvis Walker RedBone 7ft 3-6kg + Daiwa Proshooter 2500 + 12lb mono

Jarvis Walker RedBone 8ft 3-6kg + Fin-Nor UltraQuest4 + 12lb mono

Shimano Bullwhip Fightn' Rod pistol grip baitcaster - No reel as yet (pretty sure a mate is buying this from me)

Jarvis Walker Tailor Taker 13ft surf rod - Alvey 625BB + 25lb

Jarvis Walker 7ft Supertip + Shakespeare Durango + mystery mono line ('rental' I'll lend to people I don't like :P )


My kids have -

Daughter - Shakespear Durango rod + Daiwa Proshooter + 8lb mono

Son - Shakespear Durango rod + Penn Captiva CV2000 + 8lb mono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess my gear is now slowly on the quality incline. The reels are fine for a while now, so it's just a rods that I'll start upgrading over the next 12 months now. The Jarvis Walker and Shakespear rods will end up being retired.

To me El Cheapo reels would be anything under $50, Cheap to $100, reasonable to $150, good to $250, great to $400, fantastic to $600 and stupidly insane what in the hell kind of money are you on above that. :D

[oldboot]

That changed yesterday...

Starlo stix Squidgy Spin M 7ft 2-4kg + Diawa Exceler 1500 + 6lb braid (10lb braid on the spare spool)

Penn Slammer 7ft 6-10kg graphite composite + Pflueger Medalist 6040 + considering 10lb mono and 15lb mono on the spools - Alternative reel Penn Captiva CV6000 + 20lb mono

Jarvis Walker RedBone 7ft 3-6kg + Daiwa Proshooter 2500 + 12lb mono

Jarvis Walker RedBone 8ft 3-6kg + Fin-Nor UltraQuest4 + 12lb mono

Shimano Bullwhip Fightn' Rod pistol grip baitcaster - No reel as yet (pretty sure a mate is buying this from me)

Jarvis Walker Tailor Taker 13ft surf rod - Alvey 625BB + 25lb

Jarvis Walker 7ft Supertip + Shakespeare Durango + mystery mono line ('rental' I'll lend to people I don't like :P )


My kids have -

Daughter - Shakespear Durango rod + Daiwa Proshooter + 8lb mono

Son - Shakespear Durango rod + Penn Captiva CV2000 + 8lb mono

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess my gear is now slowly on the quality incline. The reels are fine for a while now, so it's just a rods that I'll start upgrading over the next 12 months now. The Jarvis Walker and Shakespear rods will end up being retired.

To me El Cheapo reels would be anything under $50, Cheap to $100, reasonable to $150, good to $250, great to $400, fantastic to $600 and stupidly insane what in the hell kind of money are you on above that. :D

krikey mate some of that lot looks a bit up market;D ..... I hope you baught it all on clearance;D

cheers

[Chamelion]

Yeah, the Jarvis walker and skahespeare durango gear would have sent me bankrupt otherwise.

That said and sarcasm aside, the 3 daiwa, 2 penn, pflueger and the Fin-nor had a tricket price of around $855 combined.. I paid $275 for the lot, give or take $10.

I can't immagine wanting to pay $550+ for ONE reel when I managed to purchase 7 'cheap' to 'good' reels for half as much. :)

Matt.

[oldboot]

I simply could not justify spending $400 pluss on a rod, then another $500 pluss for areel to go on it and another $100 to spool it up with top shelf braid:-/

Hell two of those would buy you a good second hand boat on a trailer;D .

but then again some of these guys spend $100G pluss on a boat.

I wish I had that sort of money to throw arround.

Keep it cheap and I can afford to have an appropriate rod and reel for just about every fishing situation......At least the ones I am likley to afford.


The first time I see someone bust or lose one of those high priced rigs, I am going to be very carefull to restrain myself.........If I was unfortunate enough to break or drop a rod over the side ( I never have), it wont be a serious economic calamity.

cheers

[Chamelion]

Well, I've upped the ante a little again... Hard to resist when it's all so cheap.

Silstar 12' Crystal tip - $50 down from $155
Daiwa Emblem pro 5500 - $150 down from $340
30lb braid - $19 down from $60

Cheap doesn't need to be nasty :D

Matt.

[PNG1M]

Good buying Matt..! Where'd you get it from...hope not from Mo Ta.k.. as they said the prices would go up site wide after Jan 01 (not down!!) and I bought a Silstar off 'em in Dec.

Anyway, sometimes el'cheapo might be the ONLY option you have so you gotta make the most of what you can get. I'm over here in the Middle East just now, 120kms inland from Dubai.

I usually fish off a breakwall that's about 100km south west of Dubai and I have to travel 140km to get there. It's about the closest place to fish from my current location (too bad - how sad)

Anyway, over this way there aint many tackle shops (near to none actually). I have a no-frills fishing trip planned soon and I needed to stock up on a few hooks. I found a small fishing section downstairs in an 'el-tacky' department store.

They only had a limited range inside a glass cabinet so I had to buy a selection of what they had. For about 8 bucks I bought thirty six hooks (all less than 1/0 in size), a dozen swivels and five fluero foam bobby corks.

With no choice available, re: brand or quality I had to get what was there. Fortunately they did have an option of galvanised straight shank of a more silvery metallic style of off-set hooks with baitholder barbs - so I went the off-set.

So the 'el-cheapo' hooks and floats will have to do the job.

For the fishing, my wife will use an 'el-cheapo' Abu Garcia' 3bb reel matched to an Abu Garcia 8" muscle tip with an unknown brand of 15lb mono. She'll enjoy her fishing as she likes the action & feel of her chosen gear!

I'll use a Curado DSV300 with my GL Loomis & YGK Jigman braid so I will also enjoy the fishing. I'll be casting a few lures & un-weighted ganged pillies. I'll be interesed to see if the hooks we bought will adequate - most likely yes.

In case youre wondering, I do have hooks bigger than 1/0 that I brought over from Oz. But I didn't bring any smaller than that (the wife likes fishing the for pickers). Pillies are readily available over here but generally the people buy them to cook, not for bait...crikey!

Anyway, me & the missus will go fishing more for the outing itself - not necessarily to fill the freezer. We'll both enjoy having a line in the water, that's the main thing!

Geeze, I lost the gist of this thread...sorry if it got pear shaped. I started off making some kind of point about el-cheapo sometimes being your "only" option & you just gotta go with it.

[Chamelion]

Haha nice post mate, I always enjoy reading a post that tends to go off on a different tangent.. Makes life interesting for a moment anyway. :D

I got the gear from ana*onda.

What do you think you'll catch over there?

Matt.

[PNG1M]

Don't know exactly what to expect fishing over here as these are uncharted waters for me - plus I'm not the best on fish IDs. We fished off the breakwall before but only got a few small, reddish bream-like things and a couple of brindle coloured bristly 'no-names'.

Some guys say they catch pelagics from the breakwall which is what I'll be after.

Then there are what they call "hamour" which is a kind of cod but I think they are in the deeper water.

There's a long weekend here in March and I'm lining up a weekend 'sleep on the boat' deep sea trip in the gulf, apparently targeting hamour via bottom bouncing plus whatever jumps on the line during the troll.

[NAGG]

Well, I've upped the ante a little again... Hard to resist when it's all so cheap.

Silstar 12' Crystal tip - $50 down from $155
Daiwa Emblem pro 5500 - $150 down from $340
30lb braid - $19 down from $60

Cheap doesn't need to be nasty :D

Matt.

Cheap doesn't need to be nasty ......... not a truer word said!

Look for run out higher end models ......... Often you can pick up an A grade product for a low/med price - With a little product knowledge & being price aware ........ you can put together some great gear! - The prime example of this is the Pflueger Medalist rods ....... A $350ish rod that you can get for under $1508-) ...... Why .... Its been replaced with a new model.

The US still offers some good buying ...... you might-en get a reel for half price these days - but you probably can land the next model or 2 up the range for the same price!

Chris