warning manual inflatable PFD.

[rayken1938]

Just relating my experience with an manual inflatable PFD.
I had purchased an manual inflatable to use whilst canoeing as I cant swim.
I was also allowing my grandson to wear it whilst in my larger boat as it was less restrictive for him to wear.
I was unfortunate enough to fall out of the canoe and when I tried to inflate the pfd i could not locate the inflation strap. (Subsequently found it tucked in out of the way. )
Luckily I was in calm water and was able to bob up and grab the outrigger of the canoe and kick into shore..
If you must use an inflatable at least buy an automatic one especially for children who probably would forget how to inflate a manual one.
I have now purchased a comfortable jacket type vest for less than the cost of the inflatable which incidentally on checking is out of date and is showing signs of corrosion around the cylinder.
Cheers
Ray

[freddofrog]

The decision to buy an auto inflating one is not as simple as that. There are some very good reasons why you would want auto inflate and also why you would not. If you are interested, do a search on it. There have been quite a few posts on it already.

[Hornet Rider]

Just relating my experience with an manual inflatable PFD.
I had purchased an manual inflatable to use whilst canoeing as I cant swim.
I was also allowing my grandson to wear it whilst in my larger boat as it was less restrictive for him to wear.
I was unfortunate enough to fall out of the canoe and when I tried to inflate the pfd i could not locate the inflation strap. (Subsequently found it tucked in out of the way. )
Luckily I was in calm water and was able to bob up and grab the outrigger of the canoe and kick into shore..
If you must use an inflatable at least buy an automatic one especially for children who probably would forget how to inflate a manual one.
I have now purchased a comfortable jacket type vest for less than the cost of the inflatable which incidentally on checking is out of date and is showing signs of corrosion around the cylinder.
Cheers
Ray

Ray,

Bet that was a bit an eye opening experience. Could I ask, what would you have done differently if you had the opportunity? A single piece of safety equipment, in isolation, isn't of course the answer to a successful survival outcome. You could give a bloke a machine gun with a thousand rounds and a bag of grenades & send him off into croc infested wetlands but that doesn't mean he's going to survive a croc attack. He'd really also need training on how to operate the gear & training on how to avoid a croc attack in the first place. With your manual PFD did you, for example practice activating it with your master hand & with the your non-master hand? Did you do that with your eyes open & closed, to simulate night or tempory blindness? Did you test wear your PFD in a swimming pool & practice manual inflation a few times using alternate hands & with eyes opened & closed? I'm not having a go at you mate, but if a person isn't trained on how to instinctively operate a piece of survival / saftey equipment, or if they don't put a bit of time aside to practice instinctive operation of the equipment in a variety of adverse conditions then the outcome could be less than desired, or possibly fatal.

Manual PFD's have a place in recreational fishing, but like any other piece survial / saftey equipment, there are advantages & disadvantages that either suit or don't suit your personal circumstances.

cheers, HR

[Hornet Rider]

Just relating my experience with an manual inflatable PFD.
I had purchased an manual inflatable to use whilst canoeing as I cant swim.
I was also allowing my grandson to wear it whilst in my larger boat as it was less restrictive for him to wear.
I was unfortunate enough to fall out of the canoe and when I tried to inflate the pfd i could not locate the inflation strap. (Subsequently found it tucked in out of the way. )
Luckily I was in calm water and was able to bob up and grab the outrigger of the canoe and kick into shore..
If you must use an inflatable at least buy an automatic one especially for children who probably would forget how to inflate a manual one.
I have now purchased a comfortable jacket type vest for less than the cost of the inflatable which incidentally on checking is out of date and is showing signs of corrosion around the cylinder.
Cheers
Ray

Ray,

Bet that was a bit an eye opening experience. Could I ask, what would you have done differently if you had the opportunity? A single piece of safety equipment, in isolation, isn't of course the answer to a successful survival outcome. You could give a bloke a machine gun with a thousand rounds and a bag of grenades & send him off into croc infested wetlands but that doesn't mean he's going to survive a croc attack. He'd really also need training on how to operate the gear & training on how to avoid a croc attack in the first place. With your manual PFD did you, for example practice activating it with your master hand & with the your non-master hand? Did you do that with your eyes open & closed, to simulate night or temporary blindness? Did you test wear your PFD in a swimming pool & practice manual inflation a few times using alternate hands & with eyes opened & closed? I'm not having a go at you mate, but if a person isn't trained on how to instinctively operate a piece of survival / safety equipment, or if they don't put a bit of time aside to practice instinctive operation of the equipment in a variety of adverse conditions then the outcome could be less than desired, or possibly fatal.

Manual PFD's have a place in recreational fishing, but like any other piece survival / safety equipment, there are advantages & disadvantages that either suit or don't suit your personal circumstances.

cheers, HR

[PinHead]

what is your master hand and non master hand?????????????..never heard of them before

[Hornet Rider]

what is your master hand and non master hand?????????????..never heard of them before

Sorry PinHead, should have explained that. Your master hand is the one you wank with, you non-master hand is you non-wanking hand. :-* Actually it's a military term for which hand you operate the trigger with or which hand you usually use the most. If your right handed then it's worth practicing operating the PFD inflation device with your left hand so you can mimic that in an emergency situation in case your right hand is disabled, & vice versa.

cheers, HR

[rayken1938]

I plead guilty to all above.
I thought that I was invincible and would never to activate it.
I really think that a manual inflation jacket is not suitable for a child under 12 years old and strongly recommend everybody having a trial run in the operation.
I have gone back to using a pfd type 2 bouyancy vest that is quite comfortable and does not interfere with normal boating activities.
I am secure in the knowledge that it will work every time without delay and I do not have worry about retests etc.
Dpi provide stickers that you can put in the expiry dates of your flares and epirbs. Maybe they need to update to have another place for due test dates for jackets.
Cheers
Ray

[PinHead]

Sorry PinHead, should have explained that. Your master hand is the one you wank with, you non-master hand is you non-wanking hand. :-* Actually it's a military term for which hand you operate the trigger with or which hand you usually use the most. If your right handed then it's worth practicing operating the PFD inflation device with your left hand so you can mimic that in an emergency situation in case your right hand is disabled, & vice versa.

cheers, HR

I guess the military would know all about that or else only the serious wankers know that terminology.
I would not use any type other than a manual inflatable..will take the risk on being knocked unconscious..I don't like the idea of having a life jacket on and being stuck inside the cabin area of an upturned boat..would much rather be able to get out then inflate the PFD.
As for inflating it...either hand will do..I don;t have a master or slave hand..they both work ok.

[trueblue]

the lesson is to learn how to inflate it, before you need to.

I f I was in a boat going over a bar, the last thing i would want is an auto inflate life jacket.

i would choose to keep my life in my own hands and choose to inflate when i need it instead of getting it inflated while i am still in the boat and then getting trapped inisde and not being able to escape

50/50 gamble there, you might get thrown clear, or you might get caught inside

i choose manual inflate, and teach myself how to inflate it if I need it

cheers

Mick

[Hornet Rider]

I guess the military would know all about that or else only the serious wankers know that terminology.
I would not use any type other than a manual inflatable..will take the risk on being knocked unconscious..I don't like the idea of having a life jacket on and being stuck inside the cabin area of an upturned boat..would much rather be able to get out then inflate the PFD.
As for inflating it...either hand will do..I don;t have a master or slave hand..they both work ok.

It was a play on words Pinny & bit of levity. After all, life is far too serious to take it seriously. It's not all your fault that you've lived a sheltered life.

[sleepygreg]

Going back to Raykens original post and question, and in reply to SOME of the subsequent posts, I have never seen a cabin in a canoe or kayak, so being trapped in one is not going to be a common occurence. I am not a strong swimmer (in fact hate being 'in' the water). If i am fishing in a canoe/kayak....auto inflating is what I wear. In offshore boats, if conditions get dodgy, PFD 1 or 2 is put on.....but never whilst in cabin. When crossing bars......general rule is EVERYONE on deck....with jackets on..no exceptions....I think it may even be LAW. I also wear an auto inflating jacket when fishing the ocean rocks.

Greg

[gofishin]

...to use whilst canoeing as I cant swim.
I was also allowing my grandson to wear it whilst in my larger boat... Ray, not having a go at you mate but wouldn't you want to learn how to swim too? If I were in your situation I know that's the first 'safety device/procedure/plan' I would be worrying about! You being able to swim might save your grandson's life one day, regardless of who is wearing a PFD, or what type it is.
cheers

[crossy]

Hornet you sound like u come from a military background, im thinking ex pusser?

[tigermullet]

I would have thought that swimming would be a prerequisite for use of a canoe. Not as a law as I am sure you will understand. I'm all for freedom of expression and stuff like that. Even substances that convince some people that they can fly off buildings like a canary or pigeon are ok with me if that's what turns you on.

Non-swimming boaties I can understand - just. But canoes? Their natural function is to roll over and chuck you in the water.

Anyway, how do you manually inflate a life jacket. Do you pump it up or blow down a tube.

I hope it's by manual inflation using your left or right hand or some other appendage but if it's blowing down a tube how does that work if you're drowning and can't breathe?

Can I say 'left' and 'right' or is that politically incorrect these days?

This survival stuff is pretty fascinating.

[RJ5023]

Interesting stuff about inflatables.

I use manual ones. Has anyone ever inflated a PFD (using the mouthpiece) and then pulled the toggle? I'm thinking that it would over inflate and pop like a balloon. If that's the case, doesn't it mean that you can never inflate an auto PFD using the mouthpiece?

I'm thinking of a situation where things are getting a bit hairy and you've all got your PFD's on. And then someone decides to put some air in his - just in case. Then it all goes pear shaped, you are all in the water and the auto valve activates on his PFD. Will it pop?

Should you ever inflate an inflatable PFD using the mouthpiece?

(Just my own thoughts - dunno what really happens. PFD's are too expensive to experiment with.)

Regards,

[StevenM]

Here is a question on manual inflateables.

Has anyone ever rearmed one after they have set it off?

I have a BLA jobby, and when I purchased the rearming kit it had a canister, a half moon shaped thinggy and a vale thinggy? What the hell do you do with them???

[grey_inflatable]

Hi all not on inflatable jackets but those cheap pfd3 that have a buckle any one ever try putting one of them, i have 3 of them. i often anchor up in shallow water we all swim around the boat and i have often tried putting it on in the water and its dam hard ive made my mate do it as well but gee i hope i never have to try put one on in a panic(white pointers fin circlelling arond the us)

[Hornet Rider]

Here is a question on manual inflateables.

Has anyone ever rearmed one after they have set it off?

I have a BLA jobby, and when I purchased the rearming kit it had a canister, a half moon shaped thinggy and a vale thinggy? What the hell do you do with them???

Steven, have rearmed a few thousand or so over the years. Was an army parachute instructor in a previous life & did a bit of water ops, jumping myself or dispatching people out of planes into the ocean etc. On continuation training phases we'd put 150 jumpers out a day for 3 or 4 days at a time, depending on winds & sea conditions. Technically it was the parachute riggers job to rearm the inflateables but who ever was available would help, & a rigger would do the final check.

In that rearm kit you have, the canister is obviously to replace the used one if you've activate the PFD. Screw out the old, check the firing pin is still there, manipulate the actuating lever/arm/cord to test proper operation, fit the safety clip (the half moon thingy you have in your rearm kit), then fit the new unused canister. I've seen a couple of numpties do it the other way round & accidentially inflate a PFD. That would cost them a carton! The safety clip should only fit one way, & is designed to keep the acutating arm in place so it doesn't accidentally operate. When you pull the lever/arm/cord the safety clip is designed to pop off. Don't have a clue what the 'vale thingy' is that you mentioned. More info needed on that or a pic?

You've obvioulsy read the preceeding threads on servicing, so you'd still need to comply with your respective State legislation if you conduct self-servicing.

cheers, HR

[Hornet Rider]

Hornet you sound like u come from a military background, im thinking ex pusser?

crossy, how dare you, go straight to the bathroom & wash your mouth out with soap & water;D I hold those pusser's in high regard, up to a point of course, don't want them to get too much of an inflated ego, but never was one. Army here, just a dumb grunt. 8-)

cheers, HR

[crossy]

lol hornet, im a survival equipment maintaner in the navy so i work with pfd's everyday. To all that are asking the question about inflation of auto pfd's, the inflation valve is a simple bit of kit, it consist of a co2 bottle, a chaulk bobbin and a bit of plastic that has a pin in the middle held taught by a spring and the chaulk bobbin stoping it from moving forward) this will be the inflation mechenism. Apon entering the water, the water will soak through the chaulk bobbin and release the pin, the pin will penatrate the CO2 cannister and inflate the jacket. Now for the important parts, ALL AUTO PFD'S HAVE A MANUAL RELEASE TOGGLE. Never tuck the toggle away. The toggle will work like the auto except bypass the bobbin. Never pre ampt (try to guess wat will happen) and half blow ur jacket up, most jacket will have a oral inflation tube just incase ur jacket does not inflate, but this is a last resort after pulling the toggle. some jackets will have duel chambers, meaning there should be two oral inflation tubes, in this case the auto will inflate the front chamber and if theres a hole you can use the rear oral inflation tube to inflate the rear chamber. if any one has any question at all please dont hesitate to pm me.

yours aye
crossy

[Hornet Rider]

lol hornet, im a survival equipment maintaner in the navy so i work with pfd's everyday. To all that are asking the question about inflation of auto pfd's, the inflation valve is a simple bit of kit, it consist of a co2 bottle, a chaulk bobbin and a bit of plastic that has a pin in the middle held taught by a spring and the chaulk bobbin stoping it from moving forward) this will be the inflation mechenism. Apon entering the water, the water will soak through the chaulk bobbin and release the pin, the pin will penatrate the CO2 cannister and inflate the jacket. Now for the important parts, ALL AUTO PFD'S HAVE A MANUAL RELEASE TOGGLE. Never tuck the toggle away. The toggle will work like the auto except bypass the bobbin. Never pre ampt (try to guess wat will happen) and half blow ur jacket up, most jacket will have a oral inflation tube just incase ur jacket does not inflate, but this is a last resort after pulling the toggle. some jackets will have duel chambers, meaning there should be two oral inflation tubes, in this case the auto will inflate the front chamber and if theres a hole you can use the rear oral inflation tube to inflate the rear chamber. if any one has any question at all please dont hesitate to pm me.

yours aye
crossy

crossy, so you're the one who's been flopping around like an untrained seal keeping the RAN afloat. Well done. Hope you get as much time ashore over the Christmas & New Year period & also hope :) brought you lots of nice Rabbits for Chrissy. ;)

cheers, HR

[Hornet Rider]

Interesting stuff about inflatables.

I use manual ones. Has anyone ever inflated a PFD (using the mouthpiece) and then pulled the toggle? don't do this - it could burst or stress the buoyancy chambers I'm thinking that it would over inflate and pop like a balloon. - possibly If that's the case, doesn't it mean that you can never inflate an auto PFD using the mouthpiece? - yes, but only after you've activated the CO2 cartridge, not before

I'm thinking of a situation where things are getting a bit hairy and you've all got your PFD's on. And then someone decides to put some air in his - smack his hand - just in case. Then it all goes pear shaped, you are all in the water and the auto valve activates on his PFD. Will it pop? - if it's a quality brand PFD, then it may not burst but I wouldn't bet on it

Should you ever inflate an inflatable PFD using the mouthpiece? - yes, after every time you take it out on the water to check that the chambers haven't been punctured by something (hooks, shap points etc), also during it's servicing to test that it remains inflated for at least 6 hours

(Just my own thoughts - dunno what really happens. PFD's are too expensive to experiment with.)

Regards,

RJ5023, simple answer - don't manually pre-inflate an inflatable PFD. If you do, it could cause the buoyancy chambers to overfill when the CO2 cartridge is activated & either burst the chamber/s or casue stress damage.

Longer answer - an auto or manual inflatable PFD Type 1 that complies with the Australian Standard (AS 1512-1998 or a recognised equivilant standard) is supposed to be designed so that the CO2 cartridge when activated fills the buoyancy chambers to a level that will suspend the weight range of the PFD. Some inflatable PFDs will suspend more weight than others. Most recreational inflatable PFDs will be marked with '150N' to indicate it should produce 150 Newtons of buoyancy, or said another way, it should required 150 Newtons of energy to submerse the vest. Vests range in size - 150N, 275N, 350N etc The CO2 cartridge must be matched to the vest. A 150N is normally 30-33 gm, 275N uses a 60gm etc.

cheers, HR

[sleepygreg]

Love you footnote message.

Cheers
Greg

[RJ5023]

Thanks for your replies.

Kind of thought that would be the case - but nice to have it confirmed.

I was a Greenie long before it became trendy.

Happy New Year.

RJ

[crossy]

greenie as in a pussa techo?

[RJ5023]

Yes, 10 years on the Grey Funnel Line.

Must be a few others lurking around here too I think..

Some excellent advice here about PFD's. Thanks to everyone. I pulled one of mine apart and found the warning notice inside about not putting air in it via the mouthpiece. I reckon that's one bit of info that should be a bit more obviously displayed - on the outside somewhere would be nice. Tied to the mouthpiece would be even better. Pity the poor buggers who don't read this forum. They might find out the hard way.

Happy New Year to you and your families.

RJ.

[rayken1938]

Tigermullet and Gofishin I was brought up in the bush and there were no swimming pools out there and the one school that had a pool that I attended when I was 13 shut the pool down due to the polio outbreak.
I have taught myself to dogpaddle in later life but I wear a pfd as a precautionary measure.
I did not capsize my canoe . It has outriggers but that did not prevent me from losing my ballance and falling out whilst I was reaching behind me to tilt the leccy.
I am in the process of changing the leccy from a stern to a side mount to prevent a reoccurrence
.I am certain that both manual and auto inflatables have their place but I still think that they are not suitable for small kids and 70 year old farts.
Cheers
Ray

[tigermullet]

Oh, sorry. We all have different upbringings and views.

It's hard for me to shift my thinking. After a lifetime in, on and around water it's hard to imagine anyone not being in contact with it on a daily basis.

That's really weird I suppose because we live on the driest continent on earth and I have seen some of the place away from the coast. So, again, my apologies for ignorant views. I should have known better - it would be really hard to drown west of Toowoomba so the ability to swim is not always essential out in the country. At least, it would have been considered non essential in the old days because of the lack of pools etc.

[danny412]

Hornet and crossy, good to hear theres some ex military here, Hornet when were you at PTS??

[Hornet Rider]

Hornet and crossy, good to hear theres some ex military here, Hornet when were you at PTS??

Hi Danny, at willytown when it was there 83-85, then at nowra 88-90. sounds like you've had your knees in the breeze a few times?

[rayken1938]

As a follow up on this post I gave the jacket to my son and told him it was out of date by 2 months and needed serviceing.
He has another one that he has and decided to have a " live trial " for his 10 year old son.
Here is the frightening u tube link.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=2LpKlkNxaMs

Note how the cylinder leaked and only partially inflated the vest.
Just imagine in a real life situation. Would a child have the presence of mind to undo the velcro to allow the jacket to inflate evenly or just panic remembering that they would be traumitised by being thrown into the water.
The main purpose of a life jacket is to keep your head above water not to hold you sideways.
Whilst the jacket had been worn about 6 times I had never unfolded it so I can only assume that the cylinder had not been properly screwed up from new.
So if you have one of these jackets please check it and make certain that the cylinder is screwed in tightly.
The cylinder also showed slight rusting. The only time that it had got wet was when I fell in at CIW which is fresh water.
Cheers
Ray

[foxx510]

Yep, as I said a few posts back, I found my hardly used Burke inflatable had a loose cylinder and would not have worked. A design flaw in my opinion, should be a locking fitting.