to pod or not to pod 30' bay cruiser

[Razgo-]

I am finding it hard to find someone who knows enough about this sort of thing to help.

I have spent over $6,000 on the v-drive system. new drive shaft, new bearings, new key, new prop, new rudder, repacked sealed thingy(can't think of the name of it off hand), and new couplings.

The marine mechanic said he cannot do anymore for it when the job was finished at the time.

I take it out yesterday and it feels like the shaft has a wobble in it.

I do know the coupling they replaces was too big but they packed it or something as they couldn't get a custom one made to fit. I think that part was a bit slack.

Now i am in a conundrum to pod or not to pod or keep trying to get my v-drive sorted out.

The v-drive box itself i was told had scaring inside and previous repairs inside was evident.

I personally wish someone had of suggested a pod/outboard setup before spending so much money on the drive but the mechanic said they tend not to tell customers what to do.

I don't have an issue with the marine mechanics at the marina but feel i will have to look elsewhere for help on this if they have said they can't do anymore.

but where the hell do you start looking? i shot off an email to this company hoping to find someone with experience http://www.marinediesel.com.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=28

Now the reason why i would have chosen to pod had I known more at the time is that it would give me the much needed space back for wheelchair access not to mention simply more room at the stern :)

I have been told i am looking at approx $3-4,000 for a full size pod out the back.


some pics

and video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srJ4eHLhn3M
Attached Thumbnails

[finga]

Was the vibration evident before the work?
Seeing that the coupling is the only really new gismo I'd be looking at that. Especially seeing it wasn't quite right to start with.
Did the old coupling have rubber fingers or block or the like as the new one does not look as though it has any 'buffering' It looks like a straight up bolt together 2 plates.
Perfect alignment of the gearbox and the prop shaft would be needed if that coupling is not flexible. (and that's pretty hard to do)
Have you still got the old coupling?
Nice boat too by the way. ;D

[Razgo-]

Hi finga, yes when i bought the boat i bought it knowing the there was problems with the v-drive.

The shaft was rooted, grounded down like a pencil at one end. the bearings were buggered too. the key in he shaft was buggered. the shaft was never aligned properly by the previous owner thus it rooted everything like a domino's effect.

I didn't see the actual coupling go in but it is to my understanding that yes it is a 2 piece bolted together setup.

hmmmm...... so i will phone the mechanics and get them to inspect anyway to see where the issue is.

I am hoping its just the coupling as that should be easy to fix.

However i will also get a quote from cutting edge marine on a full size pod too just to weigh up what to do eventually anyway.

[finga]

I bet the original coupling was a rigid one and as that damage is typical of mis-alignment of box and shaft.
Bung a flexible coupling in and job's done...I hope.
What size shaft is it??
I wouldn't call the mechanics just yet.
They should have thought about why the damage was done to start with and rectified that during the repairs.
Where's the boat now??
If you can I'd be undoing the bolts holding the coupling together and measure the gap at a few places around the join in the coupling. Any more then a thou or so difference is too much.
That's why there's a uni joint in the input shaft

[Razgo-]

At a guess i think it might be about a meter long give or take. I will measure it when i go down there today probably.

when it was first fixed it was fine. probably done maybe 10 hrs since. I am pretty sure from memory they got it within a thou.

[finga]

By the looks of that they only machined the coupling surface.
The problem will appear after a while as things start to move and loosen/break if there is a misalignment.

I meant shaft diameter not length sorry.
Where is she now?

[Razgo-]

Oh this was the original diagnoses from spinnaka sound marina.

I am moored ad Horizon Shores Marina woongoolba.

[Chimo]

Hi Razgo

Years ago I got involved in ski racing and there were quite a few vee-drives used in that scene. Obviously at the speeds we travelled, things needed to be set up just one way.

My suggestion to either fix your problems or recognize quickly just what options you have would be to chase up the ski racing community, some of whom may also reside here, and get the name of their guru (s).

I have a feeling that one could waste a lot of time and money using people in the boating industry without the high end skills that exist in the ski racing or boat racing scene.

This way you will either get it fixed or move on to the altenatives like o/b on a pod or even an Al extended frame such as I think, they used on WA Frasers.

Also to be frank, I think a mechanic who doesn't give a bit of advice and only does what you direct him to do needs to be out of this loop. Based on that scenario you need to be a mechanic / engineer yourself before you start dealing with such a person........ doesn't compute!

I can only imagine who frustated you and the wife must be by now.

Cheers
Chimo

[Razgo-]

Hi chimo, the penny should have dropped a while ago as all my research into v-drives always led me to ski-racing boats.

Not sure why i didn't do that. As i am pretty sure someone in the know would be able to fix or point me in the right direction.

Yes i was a bit peeved off at the time when the mechanic(not the owner) sat there and said most people just put a pod on when it costs this much to fix a v-drive.

Thats when i thought well why the hell didn't you suggest it as an option? As i would have got them to do the pod job anyway.

Anyhow i don't hold any malice toward them as i think it is what is is so to speak. I don't think they did the wrong thing by me but could have been more informative and could have done a better job on the coupling where i think the current issue is.

so yeah one side of me just feels bugger it and go and get a a quote on a full size pod or at least find out if my boat/transom is suitable for a pod.

Bit in reading another thread here on pods it looks like thats a whole new ball game too as it would appear best to use f/glass pod which will add to costs for sure i think.

I am having the windows done this week to as i bought some tinted 6mm perspex which just cost me nearly $600. but i was 4 x 1300x900 pieces. If that goes well i will get the front windows done too.

[finga]

The first guy suggested a mis-alignment as well.
IMO a flexible coupling will fix the problem.
70 thou out of alignment is a huge amount for a rigid coupling. No wonder there was a bit of a noise :-[
An easy way to see if the coupling is the problem just unbolt both 1/2's of the prop shaft coupling and move one of the flanges a smidge, start the motor and put into gear. rev her up to cruising RPM and see if there's any vibration. If there is then the problem is from the flange to the motor but my guess is there will no vibrations.
Hey Chimo... I bet the ski guys all use rubber couplings.

[Chimo]

Hi Razgo

I'd be ringing this guy and if he couldn't help I've got a feeling he could give you some hints about who else to talk to closer to your boat's location.

http://www.speedmasterboats.com.au/about.htm

Cheers
Chimo

[Razgo-]

I was also told about a company called C & P ski boats and they are supposed to be down at Yatala although i couldn't see them when i went down to the boat today.

I took some more pics/video and will upload them later.

I am not game enough to start unbolting things myself so i will leave that to hose in the know.

[Razgo-]

some more pics.

[Donny Boy]

You could try my mechanic.
Only a young guy, but geez he's good, and he'll talk to you in plain english.

He's also been involved with the Bullett Racing Team for some time.
Really knows his way around a motor, and best of all he'll come to you.

BJ Rowling. Water Torque Marine. 0402492554.

[PinHead]

a coupling..even a flexible one needs alignment either by laser or dial guages.. +/- 2 thou is usually acceptable.

[Razgo-]

the video i took today http://www.vimeo.com/2460927 the site is a bit slow to load sometimes. I am pretty sure they used a dial gauge.

[Razgo-]

After Finga took a look for me to determine the problem the following occurred.

I got the mechanic down to take a look and what i discovered was the bracket/plate underneath the box below the flange there was a large gap between that and the floor. The mechanic said that was actually bolted to the floor originally but since they had to raise up the v-drive they then had to pack between the bracket and floor.

Now what i think has happened is this.

The vibration plus normal twisting has caused the packing to crack and come out as it was gone and this in turn has caused the drive to drop down thus throwing everything out of alignment.

The mechanic used Teflon thinking it would be strong enough and it had 2 screws through the plate into the Teflon packing.

At first i would say it should have been strong enough too but i think the screws plus vibration from the bolt knocking the uni joint has cause the Teflon to crack and slowly move out underneath the bracket.

I questioned the mechanic further in regards to why they never installed an adjustment bracket and or a flexible joint.

Basically he said they did consider it and actually tried to find a flexible joint but were unable to find one.

So since there is some flex in the prop shaft and it wasn't a large diameter shaft requiring absolute precision they decided to build up the existing bracket by way of adding/welding another plate to it and then Teflon packing screwed down into the floor. He also said using a dial gauge would not have been that beneficial because the tail shaft was pitted and probably 20-30 years old and they would not have been able to get a successful reading.

So they do it by site and feeler gauges run around the flange and adjust accordingly.

I do believe this was successful if it weren't for the original issue of the bolt being too long in the flange that was knocking against the uni joint.

I think it might have been a domino effect.


With regards to getting an adjustment bracket made up he said he would have to get an engineer in to custom make one and would cost a bit to do.

With regards to will they fix it under warranty? well thats a wait and see. I told the mechanic since it was only 10 hrs and the cause may have come from that bolt knocking against the uni joint it should be fixed under warranty.

He said he will put it to the owner and see what he says. He also said but it is a timber boat prone to this sort of thing. But that won't wear with me because regardless of boat age and timber the job only lasted 10 hrs.

So i await to see if they will fix it under job warranty or not.

Oh and he said he would just grind that bolt back a bit so it misses the uni joint.

At least i know it's not major and an easy fix anyhow so thats good news.

see pic attached to see where i mean. see the top arrow to see the screw that was holding the teflon in place.

[Chimo]

Unbelievable!!!!

Chimo

[Razgo-]

added pic to show the bracket i am talking about.

[finga]

Unbelievable!!!!

Chimo
You should have been there to see it first hand. And your right :-/
First of all it's good to meet you Russel and to have a gander of 'Rumrunner'. :)

The two flanges of the coupling in question on the prop shaft when they were pulled apart were out of square by 5mm and about a 3mm drop. This is across a face of only about 132mm
The bolt in question that's hitting the uni joint is the grub screw/bolt holding the flange to the prop shaft. or was the the bolt holding the flange to the v-drive??? anyways it hits the uni joint of the tailshaft (just above) from the motor to the v-drive. (it's not the bolt shown in the picture above but it's mate on the same flange. The other one is longer still)
This actually causes flex in the 1" prop shaft to the degree that we could see the prop shaft flexing and the prop tube gland moving up and down with each bump on each revolution. Lucky the gland is on a flexible hose.
Both the flanges of the coupling had also become loose on their respective shafts from this thump, thump, thumping.
IMO this bumping bolt should have stuck out like the proverbial as it's a long bolt with a lock nut on it as well (but not used).
It must be under warranty as what they did was basically wrong.
Russel asked about the knock and they had another gander and said that's all they can do. IMO they should have looked closer especially considering the money just spent.
Anyways it was good to find the problem which can be remedied reasonably easily :)
Don't know about the packing bit. Where are the stresses going to then?? I hope not the v-drive itself or the timber which the mounts are bolted to.
And the flange on the v-drive is already a bit above the flange on the prop shaft. Packing the v-drive will only make this problem worse. There will be more preload on the prop shaft from the height diffference. The v-drive needs to be tilted and lowered slightly for proper alignment IMO. (but who am I but a broken down sparky :-[)
Cheers until next time we catch up Russel :)

[Razgo-]

Thanks finga, the mechanic said he felt if they installed an adjustment bracket that the stress might be too much? I am guessing he stress load does go into the timber.

As i am no expert it can be difficult for me to relay the possible problems to the mechanic for discussion.

hmmmm....... i never thought about it being too much stress load on the timber if he repacks it under the bracket to the floor? as noted it was originally bolted direct to the floow so i thought that might have been normal?

hmmmm..... buggered if i know now.

[station-rat]

"hmmmm....... I never thought about it being too much stress load on the timber if he repacks it under the bracket to the floor"
Hi Russell
I would have thought there would be more stress on the timber with it jumping around the way it was. With the box setup and aligned correctly ( adjustable brackets or steel shims) there should not be and abnormal stresses aplied to any other part of the boat. Just my 35 years experience as heavy equipment fitter
Station-rat

[finga]

"hmmmm....... I never thought about it being too much stress load on the timber if he repacks it under the bracket to the floor"
Hi Russell
I would have thought there would be more stress on the timber with it jumping around the way it was. With the box setup and aligned correctly ( adjustable brackets or steel shims) there should not be and abnormal stresses aplied to any other part of the boat. Just my 35 years experience as heavy equipment fitter
Station-rat
Exactly my thoughts.

[Razgo-]

Ok i didn't get it at first but now i understand that your saying by using packing to help prop/align the shaft this is putting stress on the prop.

Ok so i ring onshore marine and get the boss.

He starts telling me it is out of the 30 day warranty and therefore isn't covered.

And i said even though the mechanic knew the knocking noise was their and admitted to it it should be covered.

Of course he then says he hasn't admitted to anything to him as he hasn't spoken to him in depth yet. So i say well ok go talk to him and regardless why would i lie? the mechanic had no problem admitting he heard the knocking after the sea trial and saying he didn't know what it was because well he simply didn't know.

Now the boss man says well if it was such an issue then it should have been reported back to him.

So i say well if the mechanic didn't feel it was an issue at the time then why would i think it was an issue and complain about it?

I took it in god faith the mechanic would take care of it if it was a problem.


Basically the conversation just kept going in circles to no avail.

He then says ok well they should at least remove the offending bolt and put a proper grub screw in so it doesn't stick out at all.

Also it wasn't Teflon it was apparently recycled milk bottles. It was a thick black plastic substance.


Anyhow i stood my ground and kept calm but told him i had no confidence in you doing the job now as i am not sure this packing under the bracket is the solution.

He told me straight up that an adjustment bracket would cost way too much money to get made and that it wasn't needed. He also insisted that because of the shaft form the motor to v-drive is on uni joints that that will take up any slack allowing for any misalignment.

He then also insisted that there was a lot of hours spent on trying to fix it that they felt they had done all that could be done.

I re interpret this as saying "we ain't spending any more time on it" piss it off.

so i believe this is why the mechanic never investigated the original knocking noise as i think he was told just to push the job out. i could be wrong i dunno.

so anyway i told him to leave it with me as i will get someone else to look at it as i do not think they are taking the right approach in dealing with the problem.

So i am back to square one.

what do i do?

seek out a company to come and inspect to make this adjustment bracket?

what would the cost be? what do they mean by expensive? its just a bit of steel with slots cut in it?

[Razgo-]

what annoys me is he is trying to say to me its out of waranty so if you don't catch our bodgy job within 30 days your not covered.

I mean its not like the bodgy bolt sticking out the side is going to shrink or grow after 30 days.

[finga]

Mate, that is appalling in the way your been treated.
After all the money you've spent with them and, more or less, it's get nicked.
Tell all your mates down there in no uncertain terms.
There's other mechanics around and if the boating industry is in that much strife then heaven is not going to help them.
Station-rat is definitely on the right track. That's why I had the washers on the trolley :)

I thought we'd be able to do a bit of shimming to align but as the 2 mounts already there are on opposite sides of the v-drive and are on the sides that the v-drive needs to be twisted to be able to align they're effectively locking the v-drive in this position at the moment otherwise we would have done that today. Bugger it :(
Better explained by a picture I think.
The top of the v-drive has to go into the top cross member you can see and the bottom of the v-drive has to go into the bottom cross member you can see at the bottom of the picture. The whole v-drive has to go down about 3-5mm as well.

[Razgo-]

Hi finga, by lowering the drive will that effect the shaft/uni joints?

what the boss mechanic was telling me was they had to keep going higher.

He also said just as long as the prop shaft aligned correctly the rest doesn't matter as there is flex in the uni joints in the top shaft.

But that kind of contradicts the whole purpose of balance and alignment?

If there is even the slightest amount of stress pushed onto the uni joints even if there is flex there isn't it just a matter of time before wear will occur?

He kept going on about how that top shaft/uni joints isn't normally there or that type of more and how they had to move the motor to help with the alignment etc...

It was like he was winging about having to figure things out or something.

[station-rat]

Hi Finga
Have I got this right from the photo's
The bottom shaft has the fixed coupling and that is the prop shaft
The top shaft is the drive with the uni joint
If this is correct , then align the coupling on the box with the coupling on the prop shaft and the drive shaft with the uni joints will look after it's self.
It would seam the original problem with the prop shaft and key wearing will be caused from the alignment problems
Station-rat

[PinHead]

After Finga took a look for me to determine the problem the following occurred.

I got the mechanic down to take a look and what i discovered was the bracket/plate underneath the box below the flange there was a large gap between that and the floor. The mechanic said that was actually bolted to the floor originally but since they had to raise up the v-drive they then had to pack between the bracket and floor.

Now what i think has happened is this.

The vibration plus normal twisting has caused the packing to crack and come out as it was gone and this in turn has caused the drive to drop down thus throwing everything out of alignment.

The mechanic used Teflon thinking it would be strong enough and it had 2 screws through the plate into the Teflon packing.

At first i would say it should have been strong enough too but i think the screws plus vibration from the bolt knocking the uni joint has cause the Teflon to crack and slowly move out underneath the bracket.

I questioned the mechanic further in regards to why they never installed an adjustment bracket and or a flexible joint.

Basically he said they did consider it and actually tried to find a flexible joint but were unable to find one.

So since there is some flex in the prop shaft and it wasn't a large diameter shaft requiring absolute precision they decided to build up the existing bracket by way of adding/welding another plate to it and then Teflon packing screwed down into the floor. He also said using a dial gauge would not have been that beneficial because the tail shaft was pitted and probably 20-30 years old and they would not have been able to get a successful reading.

So they do it by site and feeler gauges run around the flange and adjust accordingly.

I do believe this was successful if it weren't for the original issue of the bolt being too long in the flange that was knocking against the uni joint.

I think it might have been a domino effect.


With regards to getting an adjustment bracket made up he said he would have to get an engineer in to custom make one and would cost a bit to do.

With regards to will they fix it under warranty? well thats a wait and see. I told the mechanic since it was only 10 hrs and the cause may have come from that bolt knocking against the uni joint it should be fixed under warranty.

He said he will put it to the owner and see what he says. He also said but it is a timber boat prone to this sort of thing. But that won't wear with me because regardless of boat age and timber the job only lasted 10 hrs.

So i await to see if they will fix it under job warranty or not.

Oh and he said he would just grind that bolt back a bit so it misses the uni joint.

At least i know it's not major and an easy fix anyhow so thats good news.

see pic attached to see where i mean. see the top arrow to see the screw that was holding the teflon in place.

That alone says the mechanic is incompetent...you do an alignment by reading the gap between the 2 faces of the coupling..nothing to do with the shaft.

I could not put on here what I would be saying to the manager.

[Razgo-]

well the funny thing is he went on to say he uses the feeler gauges on the 2 faces of the coupling as you say.

But he also said he knew the plates were not flat and you could clearly see it looked like it was wobbling.

so now i suspect thats why the feeler gauges as the plates were not perfectly round either.

so yeah why he pointed to the shaft for the dial gauge i dunno. But i do know who got the shaft :)

[finga]

Hi finga, by lowering the drive will that effect the shaft/uni joints? NO it will not!!

what the boss mechanic was telling me was they had to keep going higher.

He also said just as long as the prop shaft aligned correctly the rest doesn't matter as there is flex in the uni joints in the top shaft. That is correct. we need to align the prop shaft. The drive shaft on top can be out of alignment as it has uni-joints

But that kind of contradicts the whole purpose of balance and alignment?

If there is even the slightest amount of stress pushed onto the uni joints even if there is flex there isn't it just a matter of time before wear will occur? No, that's their job. If they work a bit it is better for them.

He kept going on about how that top shaft/uni joints isn't normally there or that type of more and how they had to move the motor to help with the alignment etc...crap. A proper job will always have the uni's

It was like he was winging about having to figure things out or something.


Hi Finga
Have I got this right from the photo's
The bottom shaft has the fixed coupling and that is the prop shaft
The top shaft is the drive with the uni joint
If this is correct , then align the coupling on the box with the coupling on the prop shaft and the drive shaft with the uni joints will look after it's self.
It would seam the original problem with the prop shaft and key wearing will be caused from the alignment problems
Station-rat
Exactly :)

[Razgo-]

well i guess the mechanic said some things right then.

[39NESP]

Razgo I Have A Mate Who Has A 33 Foot Hartley With A Pod With A 150 Yammy On It He Could Be The Man To Talk To His No Is 0413734834 Just Tell Him Snapper Said To Give Him A Ring
Cheers

[Razgo-]

thanks for that. At the moment i am going to stick with trying to fix the problem as it seems to be able to be fixed with teh right approach. Now if it was a lost cause then i would lean more toward doing the the pod.

But i think finga is on the right track and with a little bit of engineering and nouse i think it will all work out.

If it does work out then i will get another engine box made thats smaller and remove part of the kitchen for better wheelchair access.
That should then leave me with a decent boat with my needs basically covered then.

just have to paint it next year before it all peels off, install a vhf radio, and have the windows refitted with perspex and sealed properly and seek and seal some places where there is water ingress.

good to go then :)

[station-rat]

If the coupling was damaged, then why was it not machined to true up the faces. Just common sense
The uni joints are designed to have movement, otherwise all the wear occurs in the one spot.
Station-rat

[Razgo-]

well the coupling has me buggered because this is what the marine workshop ordered from elsewhere and got. they were first given a flexi joint but it was too big. so they went with this coupling which i assumed was made specifically for them. so i assume the machinist did a bodgey job? not sure how though but it is a mystery.

[station-rat]

Hi Russell
Have you looked at the shafts when they are turning? Anything not look right

[Razgo-]

Looking at the shaft spinning it was just the knocking noise and the slightly miss shape of the coupling. the noise we now know what that is but the not perfectly rounded coupling is a mystery.

Whilst i am not a metal turner i used to be a wood turner and have never turned something that came out not rounded. I just don't get that part.

[finga]

Looking at the shaft spinning it was just the knocking noise and the slightly miss shape of the coupling. the noise we now know what that is but the not perfectly rounded coupling is a mystery.

Whilst i am not a metal turner i used to be a wood turner and have never turned something that came out not rounded. I just don't get that part.
Because it's your old coupling that's copped a flogging and never been touched ...that's why.
I don't even think they thought to look at the coupling. All just too hard....especially seeing they did not see a bolt sticking out that bashes a uni joint even when it was brought to their attention.
Oh well, it'll just have to come off and get spun in Scotty's little workshop :)
Bloody boat. I couldn't sleep last night thinking about simple ways to fix the Rumrunner. I think I got it :)...I hope :-/
First thing to go is the mount on the bottom. If I remember Hartley's were designed to have the running gear mounted on two bearers going down the length of the boat.
A modified top x-member may be on the cards with slots to adjust the height of the v-drive and arms going out along the bearers that can adjust and lock tilt

By the sounds we'll find out soon enough....

[station-rat]

Hi Finga
Sounds like you have it by the short and curley's
I am sure in no time, you will have it running like a swiss watch
Station-rat

[Razgo-]

ah right the plot thickens. Well i was led to believe this was a new coupling. I think they may dazzled me with sales tactics. I now re read the receipt and can see the have listed "resurface coupling".

so ok that mystery is solved.

sorry for the lack of sleep finga and i think you are spot on with your thoughts.

The v-drive was mounted on the main bearing but was lifted up higher probably because the 6 cyl motor that went in raised the rear too much which meant the v-drive had to come up? i think it was a v8 in it before and before that i don't know.

yeah that dodgy bolt really put that workshop on my dodgy mechanics list. When i spoke to the boss mechanic about he sounded like he would not have done that and it should be replaced with a proper screw. Now thats admission in itself the original hob sucked.

But to then go on and say sorry we can't cover you under warranty as too much time has past. Thats what i don't get. you would thin once he realised hang on thats not good and simply admit to mistake and simply fix it makes them they simply don't care.


I really had thought they were a decent business and they are pretty much the only marine mechanic workshop down there.

I probably should stay away from the onsite workshops but i always thought it was a good to support them since thats why they are there. It just makes you wonder what goes on there sometimes.

[finga]

Mate, I just read through the bill again and there's a few things I'd be asking about.
Where is the new coupling?
Where's the resurfaced coupling?
Where are the two new taper locks?
Unless they are all on the other end of the tailshaft onto the gearbox then I did not see them.
I was pretty sure it was a straight bolt on plate on that end but I could be wrong.

How did they modify the prop shaft entry point? I hope it wasn't the bit of radiator hose and 2 clamps.
Remind me tomorrow to have another gander.

If there is another mechanic down there I'd be getting them to check the bill to what they actually did because, personally, I reckon it was padded more then a bit.

[Razgo-]

Here is another vid and pics i took yesterday. The vid shows the closeness of the offending bolt against the uni joint and also the bit of plastic they used as packing to prop up the v-drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ7ZTO2pnaw

[PinHead]

after seeing that video anyone that did that is not a mechanic aand should never be permitted near a boat ever again.

I would be sending a copy of that video to Fair trading AND..let them know you are sending it to them...might change their mind on the warranty issue.

[finga]

And that's after I tightened it up a bit.
The bolt has actually left marks in the yoke of the uni. and we could see the prop shaft flex due to it. :(
I reckon a few pictures will be taken during removal.
Anyways...today is the day for hatching a plan and removal and Friday or Saturday refit I reckon. :)

I really should thank Russell for giving me the opportunity for doing this.
Seeing what this bloke does every day makes me rethink a lot of stuff I thought was important but, in the bigger picture, mean didly squat.
Thanks mate

[Razgo-]

Hi scott, a big thanks to you too mate! there is no way i would have figured all this stuff out on my own. so yes i do appreciate your help.

The only other thing we have to be careful of is not letting the prop shaft drop back in the water when we remove things. although it is good swimming weather :)
cya down there soon.

[griz066]

Well done finga for going out of your way to help out another Boatie in his hour of need, I find thats what it is like her at Ausfish. Looks like you have it sorted and Razgo will be back on the water in no time. Great boat as well Razgo

[Razgo-]

Thanks to Scott I now have an adjustment bracket :) Scott manages to get the alignment within a thou. So that was good. here is a video of the bracket http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Echp2PQJ8c
However when we started her up and in gear the prop shaft was wobbling so it must have bent again due to the original problem.

So i decided i should take her out of the water and get the shaft turned true again and a new key way cut as that was chipped out also.

I am having mainstream marine workshop at horizon shores do the job. He spoke of possibly using some sort fixed bearing setup instead of the sealed gland i have so it would never leak again. But he thinks what he has in mind may not fit. SO thats a wait and see.

I thought the boot/rubber hose clamped around the gland was split but i could see as you put pressure on the shaft it actually comes out of the gland area.

He will try and have it back in the water as quick as he can hopefully by Thursday or Friday as once the prop shaft is corrected and new keyway cut in no need for her to be out of water. He will also get the other flange off that we couldn't remove and have them both squared up together so they are both true to each other.

I reckon i will be up for another thousand for that including lift in/out and hardstand rental.

I was going to take it down to samsons marina but it's just too difficult for me.

So hopefully once the new shaft is back in and with Scott's new bracket all will be sweet again for a lot longer than 10 hrs use!!

Having black tinted Windows put in also port side and starboard side. Hopefully it will look ok and not like bug eyes.

[Razgo-]

Just updating this thread to add to the next saga concerning this v-drive setup.

It's enough to bring a man to tears i tell ya!

After further inspection we found the shaft to have considerable damage and will need a new shaft. the bolt the mechanic from onshore marine that he put in did the damage.

see the pics.

It was also further evident that onshore marine never had the couplings properly turned true as the inside of the coupling was not flat so to speak which meant this was why the large bolt went in to try and hold it all together. It was never going to happen as the shaft just continued to wobble about inside the coupling.

I now believe the original problem was the inside of the coupling where the bottom shaft/spline of the v-drive comes through was too rough inside causing the new shaft to not fit properly. The reason we couldn't get the coupling off the v-drive shaft was because the tip of the bolt had spliced off and mushroomed/jammed in there.

So from that point forward it was the mechanics fault from onshore marine who decided that a big fat bolt drilled through will do the trick.

This of course simply caused a domino effect resulted in rooting up the shaft, the shaft/spline on the v-drive itself including the key way on the spline, and the prop shaft end to wear away leading to water leaking around the sealed gland including damage to the key way on the prop shaft.

Of course the workshop Watson's at coomera that will make the new shaft and key ways etc... are now closing for 3 weeks. So it's put it back in the water tomorrow so i don't have to pay $41.00 a day for hardstand rates whilst waiting.

Of course it's another $100.00 to get it towed around to my berth.

Also the sling damages both chines which need repairing before it goes back in.

When i life it again i will be getting it lifted next door at Rudie maas on their trolley so it won't damage the boat.

What annoys me is having to fix up a job done by dodgy mechanics that reside at a marina. They claim it's out of their 30 day warranty so thats that.

I would if i had the time and energy take them to small claims court but instead i will just file a complaint with the marina administration at least letting them know of my dissatisfaction of the service i received from one of their tenants.

[PinHead]

The warranty does not start when a job is paid for..it starts when the job is completed properly..I would be keeping tabs of all the ongoing costs and charging then for that also.

[Az]

agreed, just because they stuffed it up to begin with doesn't mean they're in the clear after 30 days. If they caused the problems I definately would be following it up with them. Mate this thread is frustrating me, it must be driving you insane. The amount of threads you see about dodgy marine mechanics is enough to put you off boating for life

You would think in these market conditions, establishments would be doing all they could to satisfy customers for return business. Obviously they prefer return business where you have to pay more money to fix their problems while they're take the cheapest alternative possible.

I hope your sake these guys do the right thing by you, at least it sounds like it's heading in the right direction now.

All the best
Hope you are back on the water sooner rather than later!

[Chimo]

Hello again Razgo

I really feel for you. Why is it that some trades people take on work that they are really not qualified to do?

The comments made in the earlier post were as it turns out, far too generous, I guess its my nature to not attack people inc tradies without knowing the full story but based on the latest information you really do need to follow this cowboy and his boss up to the full extent that the law allows.

As a few have stated, the warranty cannot apply until the job is finished and it still isn't. There are AFs with the legal skills to help sort this to minimize your financial loss. Unfortunately you cannot get time back.

[quote=Chimo;938177]Hi Razgo

I have a feeling that one could waste a lot of time and money using people in the boating industry without the high end skills that exist in the ski racing or boat racing scene.

Also to be frank, I think a mechanic who doesn't give a bit of advice and only does what you direct him to do needs to be out of this loop. Based on that scenario you need to be a mechanic / engineer yourself before you start dealing with such a person........ doesn't compute!

Hell, I was being far too kind in the comments above as it turns out>:( ........... What a shocking example of incompetant workmanship this exercise has been :o
Cheers
Chimo

Maybe you can do you Xmas boating later this year:)

[Razgo-]

Well i have since found out from others at the marina that this has happened to a few people where they have done tardy work that is less than professional.

As i am sure there probably have been many that have had good work done by them otherwise i can't see them lasting as long as they have done. Unless of course no one files complaints against them at the marina.

I mean the owner George never even bothered to offer to come and look at what i was telling him. He was too interested in making sure i knew his 30 day warranty. Even though i kept telling him time does not change the facts that not only the over sized bolt caused the problem and can be proven by way of the pitted uni joint and of course the flogged out shaft as result etc...

Also the fact that Adam the mechanic admitted he heard a knocking noise on the sea trial and also told me he knew the coupling was not true(not rounded and was wobbly).

I know i am kind or repeating myself here but after being a customer of theirs you would think i would have been treated better.

The fact also is that the owner George admitted to me that he would have used a smaller grub type screw instead of the large bolt tells me he knows the large bolt was a contributing factor to the v-drive system being rooted once again.

Now even that makes me mad because as i since found out no screw or bolt would have solved the issue because the coupling on the v-drive side holding the shaft was not true and the inner hole too loose to hold the shaft properly. Which is why i now believe the large bolt was used to compensate for the prop shaft being loose in the coupling which was always going to cause a problem.

So anyway i am putting all this info together to at least file a complaint with median marina's over this.

[Az]

i certainly would be seeking damages, they caused more problems than they fixed by the sounds of it!

[Razgo-]

I have submitted an official complaint to horizon shores marina who will also pass my complaint on in writing to onshore marine.

The only real outcome will be that my complaint is on official record with pictures and Onshore Marine will be aware of it.

Not much else i can really do without spending time and money taking them to small claims court.

Have to wait 3 weeks now for the engineering workshop to re open after Christmas and then i should be back in business.

Although i will need to be towed around to rudi MAAS workshop next door as i don't want to break my chines again on the travel lift. I am pretty sure MAAS can tow it around for me.

The bottom shaft/spline on the v-drive will be bit i don't know if it can be replaced or repaired.

I took a video this morning and will upload it later as it might show a little more detail on things.

[Razgo-]

more pics added. and video will appear here shortly http://youtube.com/watch?v=1-jyKyemi_o

[Razgo-]

all this waiting :) the company "Watson's" aren't open until next Monday so hopefully they can turn up a new shaft that goes through the v-drive. if so then all should be good to slip again hopefully realigned and working good once and for all.

hopefully good news next week.

[station-rat]

Good things come to those who wait!

[Razgo-]

waiting, waiting, waiting :)

A new prop shaft and v-drive shaft and 2 new couplings are being made from scratch this week from Watson's engineering at coomera.

So I am hoping it will all be said and done by this week end or worse case next week.

John Purcell (mainstream marine) said there should be no noise, no rattles and basically should be perfect.

He also figured out why there was some scoring on the propshaft on the gland end as it did look a little odd. The seal on the gland has a coil like spring in it and it must have popped off when onshore marine mechanic fitted so it was also part of the reason the gland was leaking with the spring being mashed around between the prop shaft and gland.

John is confident it should all go back together and work as intended so thats great news!!

And just in time to put it out to pasture on a coochie muddlo mooring next month.

[finga]

Good news matey :)

[Razgo-]

Hi Scott, almost good news :). Just got a phone call from the mechanic saying the engineers broke my prop accidentally. They were making sure the shaft was balanced with the prop and it wasn't. They noticed a bend in one of the blades and an attempt to bend it back cause a crack to appear.

So they are trying to locate another prop for me. Shouldn't be too hard to find a bronze cast prop?

hopefully they have one by tomorrow and then can slip the boat Monday and then sea trial Tuesday.

At least I know the job is actually being done right this time and not just slapped back together.

Prop breakage is what is and can happen to anyone so i am not worried about that but it's just another thing having to be fixed :(

[Razgo-]

still waiting for the prop. I didn't know about the various types of prop metals as there are 3 main types

1. gunmetal Bronze (the cheapest with about 5% zinc)

2. Manganese Bronze

3. NIBRAL or Aluminum Bronze

I was told the NIBRAL was the best but also the most expensive being over the 1,000 mark.

I was also told the gunmetal bronze would be the best for boat since it doesn't get up on the plane.

So will go with the gunmetal bronze not knowing any different. the cost of that one is $715.00 inc GST from watsons at coomera.

hopefully that is the right decision.

so the saga continues and hope to have a final result by end of week.

[Razgo-]

Well the saga continues.

There wasn't enough time for the antifoul to dry on the prop and rudder as the prop only arrived Friday morning and rudder on Friday.

Also had a skeg issue where the prop shaft would not align properly. So I had to have to unbolted off and build the thickness up a bit and have it glued and bolted back on. So not enough time for that to set either.

So being stuck on the hardstand until Tuesday I figured i paint her. Spent most of today painting and should finish it off tomorrow.

So it's fingers crossed for a launch on Tuesday.

new and old prop pics attached. the new prop is about 1KG heavier.

[Razgo-]

Finally!! Boat got wet last night but didn't get the alignment done until this morning. It is 6 thou out but he the mechanic reckons 4-6 thou is ok. I thought it was a bit much personally.

Anyhow no noise except at idle it seems to have some slop gear meshing. Under load smooth as a bell. I only just went around the marina and back for a quick flat out test to make sure it didn't explode or anything.

So 4K later i now have a boat again!

Planning to take it down to coochie mooring tomorrow.

I got 3 months or 50 hrs warranty whichever comes first. Thats better than the other non existing warranty i had.

Oh the skeg had to be redone and was done with epoxy but then the mechanic broke it as he tried to fit the prop shaft through and put the prop on before it set!!

so wasn't even sure if it was going to leak when it hit the water or not. Thankfully not one drop seeping in from the skeg.

could i get a full size pod and motor for $4K? or even adding the previously spent $5k on the v-drive i think i am still in front. just minus the space :)

so this is the conclusion.

to pod or not to pod? for me? no.

if i had a spare $20K? possibly.

would i have my boat fixed at horizon shores marina again? NO!

that place has sucked the life out of me so i will be glad to high tale it out of there tomorrow and will take me months to recover.

/end drama :)

[Chimo]

Hi Razgo

Good to hear that you are finally back in the water with a warranty too.

Its been a trial for all involved but much more so for you and yours.
At least in the real estate letting area there is a blacklist (or there was) pity such a thing is not in place to allow boaties to avoid spending in the wrong places too. As you say though you have spent less than you would have dropping an outboard onto the back. Maybe in a few years if super does the right thing!

All the best with it ............

Cheers
Chimo