2 or 4 stroke, just the facts?

[Noelm]

First off lets get something straight, I am not professing to be an Engineer or anything else, nor do I prefer any particular brand or operating principal, this is just what I have found from “googling” and research plus a bit of personal experience and knowledge, no brands are mentioned and the result is what I can take as a pretty fair indication of the benefits of either 2 or 4 stroke technology, we are talking NEW 2 strokes only, not old or carby model 4 stokes or 2 strokes, so here goes.

First off lets look at price, I called or visited as many dealers as I could to get a cross section of brands and prices, with the exception of one brand, to buy a 115HP Motor and have it installed the difference between all the ones I could find was less the a Thousand Dollars, now I guess this could be negotiated to more or less, depending on dealers, this was just an unwritten verbal “quote” not scientific, but the best I could do.

Now we get to weight, 4 strokes are usually heavier than 2’s, but at some HP the difference is bugger all, at others it is heaps, so your Boat tansom capacity may play a part in your choice at certain HP, newer Boats do not seem to be a problem as weight factors have been designed into them, repowers however may be a different story.

Performance issues, I have been lucky enough to have been on more Boats with different power options than a lot of people, now as far as HP goes, 115 is 115, does not matter how it is produced, some make it at higher RPM, and have a distinct “power band” some just creep up, if the Boat is well powered, then your choice should not make a heap of difference, the old “crossing a bar” and “hole shot” may favour a 2 stroke MAYBE, but if the difference is so critical, then you have the wrong HP (I reckon) 4 strokes tend to have a better cruise power, and seem to be able to maintain RPM better than a 2, but there is not enough difference to make it a selling point, but to some maybe it is, it’s your choice!

Now the ever contentious issue of Service cost and complications, this is a never ending fight, so I will try to sort out what I could find as best possible, first thing is Water pumps, they all have them, they all need the replaced reasonably regularly, so that is a non issue, now Oil, a 2 stroke burns some a bit at a time, 4 strokes need it changed along with a filter and labour charge to do it (some may do it themselves)
So lets look at it in a semi scientific way, a 2 stroke uses between 50:1 to 100:1 or less depending on brand, so lets look at a common 115HP and assume you use approx 75:1 average at 4,00RPM most use about 17 litres per hour, so at 100 hours you have used 1,700 litres correct? At 75:1 that is about 22.5 litres of Oil, now a 4 stroke needs an oil change with filter at 100 hours, some are only 50 hours, also remember that even at idle, the hour meter is still ticking over just the same as if it was at WOT, so you check out the Oil costs for the 2 stroke compared to the filter, Oil and labour for the 4 stroke, it is nearly the same cost, as far as pollution goes, I guess it would depend if you like spreading around your Oil as you go with a 2 stroke, or dumping it over the back fence or putting it in a plastic bottle and sending it to landfill with a 4 stroke, again your choice, most 4 strokes also require a timing belt change that can be quite costly, but it is not done all that often, as far as valve adjustments go, hands up anyone who has had the tappets adjusted in their modern car in the last 5 years!! Same goes for Outboards it is just so rare as to be not an issue, especially in some models that require almost a complete rebuild to do it! The “more moving parts” thing I guess is true, but with todays technologies, a failure is rare, regardless of how many parts there is, that’s more a thing to fight about after a few beers.

Next is noise, another often debated misnomer, at idle a 4 stroke has the edge, but at mid range to cruise and above, they are all pretty much the same, regardless of brand or operating principal, I have measured lots, and trust me, they do not differ enough to cry about.

Onto smell/fumes, they all burn Petrol, so they all have fumes, end of story, a 2 stroke does smell different no doubt about it, but the 4 stroke has the same amount of fumes, but it is different, OK with that? Some may find one offensive, well so be it.

Last one is fuel economy, yet another widely disputed issue, as a general rule, over a range of operating conditions a 2 stroke will use almost the same as a 4 stroke, some use less at idle, some use less at mid range, some less at WOT, but for a given HP over a period of time, fuel usage will be on a par.

So there you go, anyone want to add something constructive without mentioning a brand or bleating about how good your particular Motor is or want to say something about anything I have said and call it crap, if so then please do but do NOT mention no service for 3 years, or anything like that OK, this is meant to be as unbiased as I could make it, I would have any Motor on the market today, and of some Manufacturer wants to give me a pair of 90’s I will toot their Trumpet loud and long!

[1lastcast]

Noel intersting read and informative well done on gathering all the info and putting it up .

And 4 strokes are BETTER . ;D

Will This debate of 4 v 2 ever end ?

Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[Noelm]

thanks for that, I know some of the stuff may be a bit off, but it is hard to gather facts without leaning one way or the other, but I tried to find as much as I could as I sifted through all the brand claims and advertising blurb, so take it for what it is, as close as I could get without some sort of Manufacturers supplying Motors and stuff to actually test side by side, that would be good I reckon, 10 Boats all the same model, but all with different Motors (the same HP) supplied and fitted by the Makers and tested completely independantly of Magazine advertisers and the like, I reckon we should try to set it up!

[1lastcast]

Yeh im hearing you mate i still maintain that as long as you have a suitable and reliable motor for your needs and budget and your out on the open water having a blast of a time fishing everyones a WINNER .

And i dont think that your motor actualy catches your fish does it ?

But 4 strokes are still better :P .

Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[Outsider1]

thanks for that, I know some of the stuff may be a bit off, but it is hard to gather facts without leaning one way or the other, but I tried to find as much as I could as I sifted through all the brand claims and advertising blurb, so take it for what it is, as close as I could get without some sort of Manufacturers supplying Motors and stuff to actually test side by side, that would be good I reckon, 10 Boats all the same model, but all with different Motors (the same HP) supplied and fitted by the Makers and tested completely independantly of Magazine advertisers and the like, I reckon we should try to set it up!

Would be an interesting exercise Noelm but I reckon some of the makes would back away from being involved so you would have to probably buy the motors retail.

In the latest issue of Fishing World the editor announced that they are doing something similar with their "Fisho" Stabicraft fishing boat. It has run one brand for the last 3 years, and they have collected heaps of data. They are now going to swap it for an equivalent alternative brand and run it for 50 hours, then do it again and again for all the competing motors so they can provide the comparisons. It is goign to take a year or two all up I guess?!.

Cheers

Dave

[trev1]

My current thought is ,and has been for a while, there is a bigger difference in chasing down a good deal and dealer(more importantly) than there is in the engines themselves.

[tassie]

That was a good read Noelm, just facts no bullshi-t. .................................................. but;) just curious about the fuel usage being similar, i have just sold my 4.1 which had a 2004 4 stroke 40hp engine. I have a mate with a 4.2 with 2005 2 stroke 40hp engine (100 mm longer i know, but my boat would be heavier due to the mods i had on the boat) We used to go out to the shipping channel side by side chasing mackeral a fair bit. To do 50 kay round trip (drifting, running between beacons) i would use on average about 12 litres of fuel where he would use an average of 20. Thats 8 litres on average more per trip.:o We operated very similar, when we hit the point of bribie we used to open them up on the way home. I had a top speed of 72.8 kms per hour where he could hit 80kms per hour (both of these were tiller open tinny design) and i think he had about 20 hours more up on his motor than mine.

[julian1]

well said Noel. One thing for sure is that certain horsepower sizes offer different weights making either the 4 stroke better or the 2 stroke better. A lot can depend on your particular boat and what weight will suit it best for the given horsepower.
i for one love the fact of not having to check an oil bottle all the time and the lack of fumes. Also the power band of the 4 stroke is so much wider and this works really well offshore as you rarely have to adjust throttles.
horses for courses

[Noelm]

so was his 40HP 2 stroke an etec or Opti or Tohatsu HPDI or a carby 2 stroke? I would be guessing a carby model, hence why the big difference, try it with a comparable Motor, you will be surprised.

[Noelm]

My current thought is ,and has been for a while, there is a bigger difference in chasing down a good deal and dealer(more importantly) than there is in the engines themselves.
I have always mantained that price is second to service, a good service workshop with knowledgable Techos, can make the whole deal so much sweeter later on when or if something goes amiss, and it can! so as long as the deal is close, I would choose a close by and helpful dealer every time.

[chop duster]

43 knots in a 4.2 tinny with 40hp outboard = dreaming !!

Might have felt like you were going that fast but thats out there mate.

[newchum]

sorry missread post :-[ :-[ :-[

[tassie]

so was his 40HP 2 stroke an etec or Opti or Tohatsu HPDI or a carby 2 stroke? I would be guessing a carby model, hence why the big difference, try it with a comparable Motor, you will be surprised.

Sorry Noelm, i thought you wanted to keep brands out of this thread due to bias claims. For information purposes only i will name the outboards. One was a 2004 40hp Honda carbied model 4 stroke and the other was a 2005 Mercury 40hp 2 stroke ( i dont know much about the internals of that motor ). Lets keep with Noelms 1st post and not turn this into a etec vs 4 stroke vs 2 stroke because it would be good to get some solid facts on them all................:)

[tassie]

43 knots in a 4.2 tinny with 40hp outboard = dreaming !!

Might have felt like you were going that fast but thats out there mate.

Why would that be out there mate. whats the difference between a bigger boat and a tinny in glassed out conditions. Its all power to wait ratio and my sounder read about 1 km per hour difference than my GPS. I only sold that tinny yesterday and was water tested by the new owner ( another Ausfish member ) yesterday afternoon. He had his missus in with him and took it out by themselves, and he said they got upto 62 km per hour and that was with 2 people. I usually fish alone in that boat and since i had it for a while new how to get the trim and such right for best performance. So before you open your mouth next time maybe get your facts right, no pun intended mate but there are two many people on this site who are quick to critisise someone without having any knowledge themseves....

[Jeremy]

seems like a reasonable overall summary, but even keeping brands out of it, I think you need to be a bit more obvious that you are only comparing DI 2-strokes to EFI 4 strokes (correct?). There are still alot of older tech 2-strokes (carbie) being sold which you aren't including in this comparison.

Jeremy

[Crocodile]

Tassie,
72.8 kmh = 39 knots, 80 kmh = 43 knots, those figures are plainly incorrect.
When we contribute we need to be very careful and accurate.

[1lastcast]

Tassie i dont mean to be critical but i also find that a little hard to believe mate



Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[tassie]

Tassie,
72.8 kmh = 39 knots, 80 kmh = 43 knots, those figures are plainly incorrect.
When we contribute we need to be very careful and accurate.
Re: 2 or 4 stroke, just the facts?
Tassie i dont mean to be critical but i also find that a little hard to believe mate



Regards MONOSTRETCHO
[I FISH AND I VOTE , POLITITIONS MAKE GREAT BERLEY;D

Hey guys C'mon,:-/ i was not bragging about the top speed of my boat to start with was i. It was just what the speedo said, Lowrance X85 setup and i also had a Garmin handheld GPS. Lets get back on track with this thread. I dont get on here to bag other people out and i don't expect people to bag me out. That speed just does not seem out there to me but hey who cares. We opened this thread of Noelms up to find out some differences of the 3 different engines so lets just go with what we came here to do......................

[Noelm]

indeed, I did not include any old technology Motors, and I think I said that at the start, if not I meant to, I just tried to get as much factual evidence as I could without any brands being mentioned if possible, so the searched Motors where only EFI 4 strokes and new tech 2 strokes, and most info was dredged up using 115HP as a basis, simply because every maker has one, and it is about mid range HP and very popular, I guess a 90 would give similar results if comparisons were to be mde, I have another unbiased look into something in the pipeline as well, but it is taking a bit of time, should have something going by early next year (I hope)

[1lastcast]

Sorry tassie not meaning to come across that way no offence intended mate !.

Oh and one more thing 4 strokes are better ;D .

Regards MONOSTRETCHO

[Noelm]

I'm starting to think that Mono likes his 4 stroke!!!

[tassie]

Cheers mate. Indeed 4 strokes are better........................and that is fact because the fella down the pub told me.............:P ;D

[tednted]

Heres an interesting article that I came across that I think is pretty unbiased
cheers AL.
http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/SubscriberContent/Articles/Vol01Issue05/General/ETEC1.aspx

[chop duster]

tassie,
keep ya pants on mate. 2 or 4 stroke, just the facts? right?
Lets keep facts here then. I stand by my statement.
How can we work out the fuel consumption of an outboard (be it 2 or 4 stroke) if speeds are (I reckon)wrong? and for all we know, fuel consumption as well.
There is no need to get all hyped up over this, mis-information in my eyes is worse than none.
Noelm, great post to start the thread!

[iceknight]

If a boat was to do 50klms with a 70hp 2 stroke 1998
What does everyone think the outcome would be with a 60Hp 4stroke?
As going to a 75-90hp 4 stroke is too much weight for the hull,
Would there be much difference in top speed?
Holeshot? being that the 60 is 2kg lighter then the current 70,
And a big difference in fuel consumption in the mid range?

[Noelm]

first off you need to consider that you are losing better than 10% of total HP so the difference might be more than you think, fuel economy should indeed be better, not only is the Motor smaller, but it is a newer design.

[Mindi]

Noel...Brave attempt to be objective. I am relying on research like you as I dont have either, and would make a couple of points.
Weight....the gap is closing...the latest Japanese 4 stroke 90 (name starting with "S") is exactly 10kg heavier than a latest White 90....thats starting to become less of a factor as you say....down from 30kg a few months ago.
On fuel I am less convinced. The argument is that DIs use less at idle, more at WOT and same thru midrange. I read USA Boat Mfr sites where similar boat tested with White and Grey and the grey uses about 20% less right thru the mid range where you do most practical boating. So personally I am not yet convinced that the fuel economy is "about the same across the range.."...happy to be proved wrong but the small amount of data I have seen doesnt really support that. I think this is the biggest winning point for 4 strokes. I suspect but cant prove that the harder you go the more relatively economical the 4 stroke is.
Service... as I have argued elsewhere the whole "no service for 3 years" thing is a marketing strategy not an engineering achievement and you could treat a black DI exactly the same as a white DI and get the same result...it comes about because the white front end price is loaded to replace future service revenue IMHO...no other analysis of the business model makes sense. Certainly the idea that a black DI is inferior and needs more maintenance than a white DI is a giggle. Cant comment on noise. I dont think oil is significant, but I do think the whole mechanical complexity of a 4 stroke must in the end result in more mechanical wear and repair.
One issue you dont mention...you can rope pull start a 2-DI and not a 4 Strk....and the 2-DI will then run without a battery...the 4 Strk will not. I dont think you can even jump start a 4 Strk as it needs ongoing continuous battery support..? but happy to stand corrected on that.... So what you say..? well I have pull started an old Johnno V4 on the shelf (with a failed bendix gear in starter as I recall) and believe me it will never be "so what" for me... frightened it takes about 2 pulls...dead easy. I think this is a valid consideration in comparing the two styles.

[Noelm]

yep, indeed you can pull start the "white" Motor, could be a feature not found in the others, not too sure I would buy one because of that feature, but one day you just might thank your lucky stars you did (maybe) fuel consumption figures were taken from various magazines, Boatpoint, advertising crap and other "independant" tests, then averaged out to obtain the result, fair or not, true or false, who knows? I have not got any other way to get them without a dozen Boats with different Motors on them.

[iceknight]

first off you need to consider that you are losing better than 10% of total HP so the difference might be more than you think, fuel economy should indeed be better, not only is the Motor smaller, but it is a newer design.


What if the 60 4stroke was a little under proped? just to get it on the plane quicker. As top speed isnt needed as such,

and with the 60hp 4stroke, less fuel might need to be carried? hence less weight to push....?

[Mindi]

yep, indeed you can pull start the "white" Motor, could be a feature not found in the others, not too sure I would buy one because of that feature, but one day you just might thank your lucky stars you did (maybe) fuel consumption figures were taken from various magazines, Boatpoint, advertising crap and other "independant" tests, then averaged out to obtain the result, fair or not, true or false, who knows? I have not got any other way to get them without a dozen Boats with different Motors on them.
Yep agree...and the chances of a contolled test like that are about zero so I guess we wont find out.

[shanejohnson]

tassie 70- 80km/h out of a 40 hp no way. unless it is turbo charged and nitro injected. calibrate your sounder speedo and get new batteries for the gps.
shano

[trev1]

You guys seem to go to the extreme all the time. Noelm's original post is NOT dealing with specifics (i'll stand corrected) , just a good general post to help some of the lesser knoledgeable persons amongst us. Individual setups are just that, INDIVIDUAL. To come to a post like this and say " my -------- ----- does this" takes away from the genralisation intended by noelm, and doesent really help anyone who reads the post.
At the end of the day, 115 horsepower requires that a certain amount of fuel be burnt(with todays technology) and some motors do it better than others depending on what you want from the motor. I think noelm's idea was to get away from the "this is better than that" arguements and to simply observe the fact that the people behind the motor matter more than the motors brand or type and that its intended use will matter more than its type or brand.

[Tassie JR]

[quote=shanejohnson;933381]tassie 70- 80km/h out of a 40 hp no way. unless it is turbo charged and nitro injected. calibrate your sounder speedo and get new batteries for the gps.
shano[/quote

Mate ive been in the boat a few times and its not all about the motor it is also about how the boat is set up hull design, mate use dont know what kind of boat it is so dont jump the gun. BTW the hand helded gps runs off the battery which is charged by the motor so theres another thing u need to get right, u really no a lot dont you.

[iceknight]

But really.. who cares about top speed? were not racing on the water are we?
If someone says there motor does X amount of speed, Who is anyone to say otherwise unless theyv been in that boat? it may not sound plausable, But we cant judge without knowing...

[Luke G]

One issue you dont mention...you can rope pull start a 2-DI and not a 4 Strk....and the 2-DI will then run without a battery...the 4 Strk will not. I dont think you can even jump start a 4 Strk as it needs ongoing continuous battery support..? but happy to stand corrected on that.... So what you say..? well I have pull started an old Johnno V4 on the shelf (with a failed bendix gear in starter as I recall) and believe me it will never be "so what" for me... frightened it takes about 2 pulls...dead easy. I think this is a valid consideration in comparing the two styles.

Is this somthing you have herd? or tried?

My dodgy mate, with his black 50 electric start 4 stroke has had his battery go flat several times up the creek and out wide. Every time he wraps a bit of cord around the flywheel and off it goes. Just something to think about.

Cheers

[Mindi]

Is this somthing you have herd? or tried?

My dodgy mate, with his black 50 electric start 4 stroke has had his battery go flat several times up the creek and out wide. Every time he wraps a bit of cord around the flywheel and off it goes. Just something to think about.

Cheers

I was specifically told it by a 4 stroke dealer...so I just took it at face value and believed the flywheel was not externally exposed the same way..?. It is from personal experience with a 2 stroke. Interested to know the right answer. Am sure that a 4 strk cant run without a battery but open to more info on pull starting..?

[Spaniard_King]

Mindi and others,

As far as pull starting a 4 stroke it is totally dependant on the model/brand of the engine. for eg the older 90hp silver brand had the capabilitiy to pull start but the newer version does not.

Personally most late model boats will have a dual battery setup and the electrical systems on engines today seem to be prety bullet proof hence the move away from manual start facilities.

[Noelm]

OK, so that is settled, Spaniard, as a 4 stroke "official" do you think my comparisons/facts are pretty close to accurate? just for kicks, I searched high and low for troll/idle fuel consumption and once again did as much research as I could and averaged out all the "tests" I could find and found something that sort of surprised me, I would have thought that the 4 strokes would have been the clear winners at idle, but it just isn't so, for all the 2 strokes at idle, their range was from .7 to 1 litre per hour, the 4 strokes where from 1.2 to 1.3 per hour, mind you this equates to about $5 for a full day trolling, so hardly earth shattering huh! but mind you, as I said earlier, you hour meter is ticking over just the same as if you are at WOT, hhhmm seemed for a second there that I am favoring 2 strokes, so I don't mean to, anyone who has some objection to anything I have researched on either operating principal, I will defend either equally!! or stand corrected if someone can find anything better or more scientific.

[Spaniard_King]

Noel,

I can see that that most of the assumptions you make are fair, I just doubt some of the figures quoted i.e what size hp are you quoting for idle fuel used per hour.

I doubt any v6 outboard could use less than 3l/hr at idle.

Basically you should be happy with what you have or intend to buy cause someone else will always have one better than yours :P

[Noelm]

OK, I think I mentioned I used 115HP as a basis, for no other reason than every maker had one, they are very common, and are sort of mid range, although I guess 150HP is now considered to be mid range.

[Noelm]

OH and I fully agree that the buyer is the one that needs to be happy, not me or you, I just tried as best I could to dig up some factual evidence on pros and cons without any brand at all mentioned, I took the average of any figures I found and also used some first hand experience to come to the conclusions! as I said a while back, it would begreat to get a bunch of guys (us) together with a single brand of Boat, but with Manufactures fitting/supplying their own Power options, all the same HP,then test them all without any loyalty or cash incentives involved.

[Malcolm W]

Noelm, thanks for the info. I have looked at replacing my good but smelly 115 with a later fuel effecient 115 (range being my biggest consideration). I have no brand or 2 v 4 issues. My current motor reaches 115 (by website info) @ 4500 as its a detuned 130. The current motor seems to be about the right HP. A couple of rivals motors reached 115 @ 1000+ revs more. There is also talk of one brand thats 115 is not quite 115 hp its closer to 100 hp. The one thing that I would like to see is torque figures also as I have a heavy boat for its size. The hull is rated to 130 hp, so for me my choice is made up of motor weight, getting the best HP/torque? for revs( dont wish to rev the bags out of it) and the best deal/service. This and with with the sort of info you have provided makes it a lot easier to narrow down an unbiased choice. Mal.

[Noelm]

It is indeed a big decision, and a lot of cash these days as well, do you have any weight comparisons to go with? there is some good stuff on Boatpoint that would help you out there, I doubt that they would stretch the weight too much, but sometimes they do cut a few KG's off, by not adding the prop, or 'dry weight" that is no oil, not much but could be enough to just swing you one way (maybe) don't know why they do that, a Motor without a Prop is pretty useless, just the same as one without Oil, 2 or 4 stroke, they all usualy quote dry weight, then toss in a Battery or two and the lightweight Motor has just gained 20 or 30KG easy! also as I mentined way back, a lot of Motors are very close in weight to HP, I guess it happens when you get a similar powerhead, but one at it's upper HP output, compared to one at it's lowest HP rating, it could be the difference in a 4 cylinder to a 6 for the next HP "step"

[sea raider]

My current thought is ,and has been for a while, there is a bigger difference in chasing down a good deal and dealer(more importantly) than there is in the engines themselves.

I couldn't agree more, there are too many cowboys out there that employ "Marine Mechanics" that just dont give a shit.

Some of them won't even stop to help you if you break down.

[black runner]

While torque figures are hard to come by, you can get a reasonable idea of the potential for more or less torque by looking at: Cubic capacity, bore and stroke, number of cylinders between motors of like HP and type. ie compare 115 4strokes with each other and 115 di 2 strokes with each other. ie the more cubes and/or longer stroke for a given bore and same number of cylinders will generally yield greater torque. This is especially important if your motor choice is on the minimum side of recommended hp for a hull. If it's up around max rated hp then it's not such a big issue if one is a bit lower on torque than another.

Cheers

[Splash]

those of you who 'empty' state 4 strokes are better - please state your reasons.

[Luke G]

I got a 4 stroke because:

-No fumes to smell
-Fuel Economy
-Ease of use (No oil to fill)
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Quietness

Generaly once you've had one, you never go back.

Cheers

[iceknight]

What RPM in the 4 strokes do you troll at for pelagics...
My 2 stroke iv gotta be on 2500 to be even getting any decent speed to troll, anything less and the lure/skirt just sinks....

[Jabba_]

I got a 4 stroke because:

-No fumes to smell
-Fuel Economy
-Ease of use (No oil to fill)
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Quietness

Generaly once you've had one, you never go back.

Cheers
You just stated all the attributes off the E-tec.

[Noelm]

while I do not disagree with you Luke, have a look at some of the figures that I have found and averaged out, plus some of the other fores and against, some of your reasons just do not stack up, but still no reason not to buy one! there just does not seem to be as much difference as everyone thinks, if you like your Motor because . . . . then fine, but I don't quite grasp why people have to defend their choice to the bitter end or bag someone who did not buy their brand, does not make a lot of sense to me, but I guess that's just us!

[Luke G]

iceknight : It depends on your set up. I troll at 1500rpm for 5litres an hour doing 6 knots.

There all good these days, The E-tecs do still smell, you notice it allot more after being around 4 strokes for a while. I'm very happy with mine.

[notsa]

I got a 4 stroke because:

-No fumes to smell
-Fuel Economy
-Ease of use (No oil to fill)
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Quietness

Generaly once you've had one, you never go back.

Cheers
These are all the reasons I got a e-tec

[Luke G]

Realy? You don't need to fill up the oil bottle?

[Noelm]

he still needs to fill up the Oil container every couple of Months, but he does not have to pay a mechanic to change the Oil and filter, and then dispose of the old Oil, just read the "facts" it's your choice!!!

[Spaniard_King]

Noel, do you think boating manufacturers take into account the Oil bottle location and filling when designing their boats??? or do you think it's just an afterthought when the fitup takes place?

Would be interested to hear what manufacturers take the oil bottle into account

[Noelm]

most dealers fit the container in a neat and tidy (read out of sight) location, they do not give a fairies fart about topping up later, some do of course, but most don't, it should be reasonably accessible, and if it is tucked away, perhaps a filler and hose on the deck (like a fuel tank) would be a good option, I guess all the smaller Motor with the Oil bottle on the Motor are a good compromise, but the bigger Motors have a bigger bottle and would make the Motor so much larger (I guess)

[Noelm]

I just remembered, my mate had (I think) a 135 merc and it had the Oil under the Cowl, but it was pre Opti days of course, so that was a biggish Motor with a Motor mounted Oil system.

[Noelm]

I guess (to answer your question) no Manaufacturers do not care too much about the Bottle, some make a little storage thing that will hold a Battery and maybe an Oil container, but you would need one of those Funnels with a long flexi end to fill up the Oil. Most just leave it to the Dealer to fit what they sell.

[notsa]

Realy? You don't need to fill up the oil bottle?
I don`t have to change sump oil.

[black runner]

For me, having worked on 2's and 4's, petrol and diesel in the auto industry the operating principle and its effect on potential wear and tear/longevity has me leaning more towards the 4 stroke. In most non-commercial marine outboard situations this really isn't an issue but for me (and this is only my view) it's what sets the two apart given that the performance spec for a given hp are so similar (with the Di2s and 4s that is).

More specifically, each piston and bore in a two stroke is subject to a power stroke for every revolution of the crank pin it is connected to. With a 4st the piston/bore is subject to a power stroke every second revolution of the crank it is connected to. Generally speaking this is why 2 strokes require reconditioning much sooner than a 4 stroke in a similar application eg motor bikes.

DI injectors and spark plugs are firing at the double too, and the pistion/bore is subject to a major power side thust every revolution. Combustion chamber temps are higher and so on. So this is why it is imperative that the lubrication and cooling systems have to be spot on otherwise small faults can cause major damage and why the 2st DI lube systems are so sophisticated.

Knowing that the 4st sump lube system is one of the most reliable components on the 4st and almost unlikely ever to fail (unless there is no oil) and the other items listed above gives the 4 banger the nod for me with all other things being equal. That said, if I bought used boat with a 115 or 130 2st carb v4 yammie (oil injected not DI) I wouldn't be disappointed either, these are a great motor but that's for another thread!
Cheers

[BrenMac]

I'm with ya Luke.

Last motor was a DI 2 and whilst I really liked it, my new 4 stroke is streets ahead, I will never go back.

With the DI 2-
-Occasional smell of fumes
-Great Fuel Economy
-Filling up oil used to $hit me!
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Quieter than std 2 stroke, but still noisey!

4 Stroke-
-No fumes
-Great Fuel Economy
-Ease of use (No oil to fill)
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Super Quiet

Cheers
Brendan

[MyEscape]

I still think it get down to your individual preferences/price and overall boating outfit.

For me with my open tinny, Seajay 4.35 I could not justify spending the extra on a four stroke. Opted for an oil injected 2 stroke Yamaha.

As for oil usage, as most of my boating is not at WOT the oil usage is minimal to say the least. The cost of oil is not in the equation for me and in my circumstance.

As for the posts about the speed, I don't wish to hijack another thread, but mine's nowhere near the sort of speed you are talking of Tassie.

Steve

[Jabba_]

I'm with ya Luke.

Last motor was a DI 2 and whilst I really liked it, my new 4 stroke is streets ahead, I will never go back.

With the DI 2-
-Occasional smell of fumes
-Great Fuel Economy
-Filling up oil used to $hit me!
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Quieter than std 2 stroke, but still noisey!

4 Stroke-
-No fumes
-Great Fuel Economy
-Ease of use (No oil to fill)
-Happy to troll
-Reliability
-Super Quiet

Cheers
Brendan
What DI 2st did you have?.. It would have to have been either a Ficht or a Opti. Is that correct....

As you know I have the E-tec 250, and it is miles ahead of the Ficht and Opti with regards to Quietness, Trolling, and topping up the oil...

For Quietness, so fare the only other motor I have been out in that is noticeably quieter is the Suzuki, and that was only while we were idling... At cruise speed it was no differant... Where the Opti was louder across the entire rpm range, it was particularly noisy at cruise speed....

Trolling... Not sure about every E-tec model, but so far to date I have never had a fouled plug from trolling. The longest I have trolled is from the Southport Seaway to Burleigh and back at 1800-2000rpm... Bloody boring when no fish would strike your lures.... Also no splatter when we opened up the motor to head home, just instant throttle response.

Topping up the 2st oil..... Granted the Ficht and Opti need refilling more often.. But in my case I have a 13lt oil reservoir and refilling is done through an oil cap at the top off the transom. Very easy, quick and not messy... I bet I can top up my 2st oil faster and easier then anyone could chhange there oil in the 4st... So fare in the last 40hrs I have used less then 8lt's off XD100......

[scuttlebutt]

I used to have a Quntrex 4m tinnie with a 40hp 2 stroke yammie on the back. Flat out on a glass day with just me in it would do just over 40km/hr. I did get it up to 80km/hr occasionally but that was towing it down the highway.